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For the love of Terry Funk
05-11-2018, 04:09 AM
War of the worlds tour is on. They're having a lot of NJPW people over at the moment. Next event is advertising Cody vs Liger, Naito vs Beer City Bruiser, Roppongi 3K vs So Cal uncensored, and Hangman Page defending the TV Title against Sean Young.

Prime Time
05-17-2018, 04:36 PM
Watched the RoH tv this past week, thought it was interesting that the person who stood out the most was probably Bully Ray. Not exactly someone that I'd really think of as typifying RoH but clear he still bought a certain menace and intensity to an otherwise forgettable middle of the show.

The knee strike to win the women's opener was quite something though. Kelly Klein, I think her name was? Not someone I know truth be told.

mizfan
05-17-2018, 05:14 PM
I've seen her once, last year she had a banger of a match with Io Shirai in Stardom where they literally fought out to the parking lot on top of cars. It was also really good for the in ring parts, for what it's worth. I liked her a lot based on that appearance, though I'm pretty sure Shirai could carry me to a ***1/2 match if it came to it.

Weird to hear Bully Ray is notable again. His big singles breakout earlier in the decade was stupendous, one of the best things about the period, but after 2014 he was pretty much a nonfactor, very forgettable in the WWE and not really recapturing the magic elsewhere.

Prime Time
05-17-2018, 05:30 PM
I'm not going to lie, it was a surprise to me too, but he sauntered out and beat the crap out of some young guys and cut a promo, and there's just a whole other level that he was tapping into.

I won't say it was his TNA best kinda levels, but you could definitely see shades of the performer he was, and in RoH that's going to add value.

CanadianCrippler
05-24-2018, 09:59 PM
The way that they've slowly gotten Flip Gordon over with the Young Bucks alignment and main eventing TV frequently gives me the impression that he could be in line for a Television Championship push or at the very least some form of title contention. personally I'm not a fan of him, he just doesn't vibe with me even though he's remarkably talented. I don't wanna see him go to waste like Lio Rush but I'd be happy with him having a tenure similar to Cedric Alexander.

Also I've been wondering how ROH would handle creating divisions with rankings if they were to create a Cruiserweight or Junior Heavyweight Championship for the smaller guys to get recognition from. I think they're fine without J.H. Tag Team Championships but having a weight class Championship to divide the average sized guys from the larger guys would be a great thing to implement to further diversify the roster.

mizfan
05-28-2018, 12:27 PM
Yeah, Flip is very athletic but I can't say he's really impressed me that much when I've seen him. Feels like others can do what he does just as well with more upside. Plus, apparently he's a bonafide Flat-Earther?? Unless that's a joke and I missed it. Nothing to do with his wrestling, but in a weird way it makes it hard for me to root for the guy, haha.

My initial thought is the guys in ROH are too small on average to really justify a juniors division, but looking over the roster I suppose it could work. I feel like weight classes are a dying trend though, so it still wouldn't be my first choice. If you have a smaller guy and you don't want him going for the world title, there's the TV title or one of the tag belts.

CanadianCrippler
05-28-2018, 07:18 PM
This entire decade has been a renaissance for the average sized generation of wrestlers, there are so many 170 to 225 pound competitors in the world of pro wrestling right now, I feel the weight division titles can seperate the abnormalities from the herd. But it's up to management to not hinder everyone under 225 to a singular one dimensional, spot heavy role.

Also I've been meaning to ask anybody this: what the hell happened to Brandi Rhodes? I'm watching Honor: United and she's wearing a fake diamond studded sling doing commentary. Who hurt her? What happened?

mizfan
05-28-2018, 07:28 PM
She got injured doing a tour of Stardom a little while back. I'm not sure if there was one specific thing that injured her, she worked the tour and came back and the tests showed she picked up an injury.

CanadianCrippler
05-28-2018, 07:52 PM
Fuck I'm surprised I got an immediate response, thanks sir! Thought it was storyline for how cheesy her sling looked

mizfan
05-29-2018, 11:02 AM
I mean, I'm sure they're playing it that way. I haven't been wowed by Brandi in the ring, but she's got a great character and complements Cody perfectly. Honestly I'd say she enhances what he brings to the table a lot when she's around.

Rob S.
06-11-2018, 11:11 AM
So Best in the World is on June 29th. So far they've announced quite a few matches. Here's what's coming to Baltimore, MD; a show I'll be attending live

Dalton Castle vs. Marty Scurll vs. Cody (ROH Title)
Young Bucks vs The Briscoes (ROH Tag Team Titles)
Los Ingobernables de Japon vs. The Kingdom (ROH 6-Man Titles)
Flip Gordon vs. Bully Ray
Women of Honor 8-Woman Match featuring Kelly Klein, Tenille Dashwood, Sukie Sakai and women from STARDOM
Adam Page vs. Punishment Martinez

KUSHIDA has been advertised as well.

So far, no match for the TV Title held by Silas Young, or anything for Jay Lethal and SoCal Uncensored

EDIT: KUSHIDA vs Jay Lethal has been added

mizfan
06-12-2018, 08:16 PM
So, with the All In angle going on, you've gotta figure Cody is taking that ROH title, right? I love Castle but he's had a pretty good run and Cody is HOT HOT right now. My only wonder is how they'll get it back off him, or if they'll just run him on top for an extended period.

Flip vs. Bully is... something. Honestly's don't even know what to think of that. Similar with an 8 way match, seems like a way to cram women on the card without paying much attention to them, which is not great, especially since the unnamed women of Stardom will probably end up being some of the best wrestlers on the roster.

I'm down with KUSHIDA vs. Lethal though, that should be a lot of fun.

Rob S.
06-13-2018, 01:13 PM
The Women's Match is this:

WOMEN OF HONOR CHAMPION SUMIE SAKAI, JENNY ROSE, MAYU IWATANI, & TENILLE DASHWOOD vs. KELLY KLEIN AND OEDO TAI (HAZUKI AND GODDESS OF STARDOM TAG TEAM CHAMPIONS KAGETSU & HANA KIMURA)

mizfan
06-13-2018, 01:26 PM
What the heck is up with the Sumie Sakai thing? Even in the early 00s she was just alright, and I can't imagine she's gotten amazing with almost 20 years of wear and tear. A lot of good names in there which could probably tear down the house if given a better spot. Tenille vs. Iwatani or Kagetsu would almost certainly be awesome.

Rob S.
06-15-2018, 01:52 PM
I don't know man. Was sure they were either going with Tenille or Kelly Klein as champion. Sakai was a giant shock to me.

Sounds like the card is almost complete except for possibly a Silas Young defense. He's the only Champ not booked yet.

Prime Time
06-19-2018, 03:39 PM
WWE blocking RoH doing a show at MSG fucking sucks.

mizfan
06-20-2018, 01:00 PM
Yeah, what the fuck is up with that? ROH is no threat to them and they don't even use MSG anymore except for a couple house shows. Feels like just throwing their weight around for the hell of it, but that's par for the course. Unfortunate that they'll probably do the same to AAA before their show.

LK3185
06-20-2018, 01:05 PM
Total Vince move. Highly doubt it happens if he's not running things. I would somewhat get it if they used it for TV but its too expensive.. which is amusing coming from a company that just had a tv rights deal worth 2 Bill in total.

I get Sinclair is a tv company but I felt like ROH doing MSG was a big risk, especially branded as ROH. Which isn't that hot.

mizfan
06-20-2018, 01:33 PM
If I read right though they were gonna try to run 'Mania weekend, and since they sold out (I think) at 6,000 last 'Mania weekend they could have set a whole new record for themselves. Would have really liked to see them at least get a chance to try.

Is there somewhere bigger than the Hammerstein they can run instead in the area? I'm sure they can sell that out easily but it doesn't hold anywhere near 6,000.

Rob S.
06-29-2018, 10:35 AM
Tonight is Best in the World. I'll be attending the show in person, first time at an RoH show since 2013. Let's hope for a good show

XanMan
06-29-2018, 11:11 AM
If I read right though they were gonna try to run 'Mania weekend, and since they sold out (I think) at 6,000 last 'Mania weekend they could have set a whole new record for themselves. Would have really liked to see them at least get a chance to try.

And it's the weekend of Wrestlemania XXXV. Somebody should be running fucking holy ground on that weekend.

Rob S.
06-30-2018, 09:35 AM
Bullet Club is NOT fine.

SirSam
06-30-2018, 10:37 AM
How was the show Rob?

Oliver
07-26-2018, 02:40 AM
Just read that Alex Shelley has had to retire. Sad for him, he's only 35.

Prime Time
08-17-2018, 08:17 AM
Seen a lot of discussion all over the net about how Vince will react to RoH running and selling out MSG. Does anyone out there think RoH will have the WWE gunning for them from now on, and if so, how do people think they'll ride that wave?

LK3185
08-17-2018, 11:59 AM
What WWE will try to do is sign the Bucks, Cody and Omega. I don't know what else they could do. Blocking MSG didn't work. Show sold so its not like they can take away from that. They already try to put NXT against them. As far as signing away more talent, they already do that too by funneling people to Evolve.

WWE been undercutting ROH for years and as long as ROH can hold onto the Bucks and Cody, then ROH will keep humming along.

Team Farrell
08-17-2018, 12:21 PM
I mean, WWE does have options unless Sinclair wants to pump a bunch of money and legal resources into ROH. They could book some of these smaller buildings that are within ROH's grasp and get them to sign on to exclusivity agreements with a guarantee that they'll be there X times per year.

Make no mistake, MSG took ROH's booking because they've been slighted by WWE. WWE runs Barclay's in New York typically. If WWE had been running MSG more than twice per year, I'm sure they would have turned ROH away.

WWE's got deeper pockets than ROH. Sinclair will step in with their much larger and legal team and bigger bank account...but how often? How many times will they do it before it becomes a nuisance?

mizfan
08-17-2018, 02:27 PM
Man, that sucks about Alex Shelley. I'm also kind of shocked he's only 35. I would have guessed at least 40, for how long it feels like he's been around and because I know even 5 years ago or so he was talking about being really burnt out. Hope he's happy in retirement and able to come back to the ring now and again if he feels the itch.

Agree WWE will probably fight this one with their pocket book and try to scoop up even more guys that ROH would like to use. Whether that strategy will work or not is debatable for a number or reasons, but it won't be for lack of cash on the WWE's side.

LK3185
08-17-2018, 03:05 PM
Sinclair does have the Money to keep the Bucks and Cody happy.. I think they are happy already so I think the WWE deal would have be something beyond money, assurances, that sort of thing.. Not saying it won't happen or that Sinclair will step up to do more beyond that. I don't think Sinclair takes ROH seriously enough. If they did, they probably would put more effort into the overall product...instead of seeing attendance rise because of a few acts..


I feel like WWE is more angry with MSG than ROH. They basically told them we love you, but only for live events that mean nothing.. Don't cheat on us... And then MSG cheated. lol. If WWE was serious about hurting ROH, they would take NXT on the road way more and live if they could do it.

Team Farrell
08-17-2018, 03:16 PM
I feel like WWE is more angry with MSG than ROH. They basically told them we love you, but only for live events that mean nothing..
I think that has something to do with MSG charging an arm an a leg if your event is televised. Like, substantially more than a non-televised event.

If WWE was serious about hurting ROH, they would take NXT on the road way more and live if they could do it.
They still might. It's not something that can be done at the drop of a hat. But they could also offer some more money/help to WWN if they want to damage ROH without the bad publicity among wrestling fans. Help get them drawing big numbers and put the on the Network.

LK3185
08-17-2018, 03:30 PM
That's another thing that would help. I don't really care for Evolve but more people would watch it if it was on the network...and pushed right, it could be the promotion that rivals ROH..

The funny thing is, people aren't into ROH... but they are into the Bucks and Cody and New Japan, Omega especially and I know some fans feel its supporting an alternative group to WWE.. Evolve is seen as a feeder system with all the appearances Regal, even Triple H has made.

I don't fault WWE for not paying the charge to broadcast at MSG but expecting them to do no wrestling.. because of loyalties to WWE? lol surprised it took this long tbh.


The gate is reportedly exceeded 1 million dollars for Supercard. I think ROH made their money back.

Rob S.
10-02-2018, 08:34 AM
The next ROH Baltimore show is Glory By Honor and so far two matches have been announced, and they're both pretty damn good.

Jay Lethal vs. Silas Young for the ROH Title
Cody and the Young Bucks vs. SCU for the ROH Six-Man Titles

Add to that the recent victory of Jeff Cobb over Punishment Martinez for the TV title, which would hopefully mean an appearance here and this card is already shaping up nicely

mizfan
10-02-2018, 03:35 PM
That's pretty solid, I've liked Silas a lot when I've seen him and I could maybe see him as a good choice for ROH champion. He's a bit underwhelming in that role on paper but at least he's got a big personality that could help him carry it. I'm not sure if he'd be better than Lethal, who is very talented but seems like he might be in a rut in that slot. BC/SCU should be fun for sure, I like the idea of Daniels being in the mix with the BC/Cody stuff. Also think Cobb will be a really good fit for ROH, yet another talent discovered by Lucha Underground that's now out making waves everywhere he goes!

Rob S.
10-03-2018, 08:19 AM
There were some more announcements for GBH in Baltimore.

Marty Scurll vs. Hurricane Helms
Shane Taylor vs. Adam Page
Jonathan Gresham vs. Bully Ray
The Briscoes vs. The Bouncers (Beer City Bruiser and Brian Milonas)- Non-Title match

I suspect we'll get a Women of Honor match announced, and maybe one more to round out the card at 8

mizfan
10-03-2018, 02:16 PM
Really surprised at Helms getting booked. I like the guy but I've seen him wrestling in 2018 and he wouldn't be my first choice for a major match. Maybe they'll just do shtick though, I'm sure it's a hero vs. villain tagline they're going for.

I've seen a bit of Shane Taylor and he seems solid. Big fan of Page so that match should be reasonably good.

I though Bully Ray was pasts it but from what I've seen he's still got something in the tank, not what he had 5 years ago but something. Match up with the tiny but super mat savvy Gresham should be interesting.

Nice to see Brian Milonas booked in ROH, is he a regular? Saw him for the first time recently and was fairly impressed!

XanMan
10-03-2018, 04:46 PM
He and Beer City Bruiser are now a regular tag team. And yeah, I think the card looks great!

SirSam
11-11-2018, 07:33 AM
Hey guys,
I'm putting together the end of year voting for LOP and was hoping to give a few options for ROH in the 'Non-WWE sections' but I don't watch it so thought I'd get some opinions here.

The categories are:
- Wrestler of the year
- Non-Wrestling Personality of the year
- Singles Match of the year
- Tag Match of the year
- Show of the year
- Feud of the year

If you could pop a few options for each on this thread or in a DM that would be most appreciated.

mizfan
11-12-2018, 03:48 PM
I've watched a bit of ROH so I'll try to give some good suggestions:

- Wrestler of the year
Jay Lethal
Hangman Page
Christopher Daniels

- Singles Match of the year
Jay Lethal vs. Dalton Castle, ROH Championship, 16th Anniversary
Jay Lethal vs. Jonathan Gresham, Iron Man, ROH Championship, ROH TV 9/8
Jay Lethal vs. Will Ospreay, ROH Championship, Death Before Dishonor

- Tag Match of the year
Daniels, Kazarian, & Scorpio Sky vs. Hangman Page & Young Bucks, Street Fight, ROH Six Man Tag Titles, 16th Anniversary
Daniels, Kazarian, & Scorpio Sky vs. Flip Gordon & Young Bucks, Ladder, ROH Six Man Tag Titles, Supercard of Honor
Briscoes vs. Young Bucks, ROH Tag Titles, Best in the World

- Show of the year
ROH/NJPW Honor Rising: Japan 2018 Day 1 2/23
ROH/NJPW Honor Rising: Japan 2018 Day 2 2/24
16th Anniversary Show 3/9

Prime Time
12-20-2018, 12:25 PM
Main page reporting that Mark Haskins is the latest RoH signing, going along with their recent acquisitions of PCO and Brody King.

mizfan
12-20-2018, 02:51 PM
I have never even seen a slight hint of what people see in Mark Haskins. The guy is generic and dull as heck to me.

I believe they also signed Bandido, which is much better for them.

Really hope ROH has something in mind for all these signings... ROH has relied so heavily on NJPW and the Bullet Club/Elite stuff for the past few years that there hasn't been a lot of room for their own stuff. My fear is guys coming in with big hype will see their heat die off fast if ROH doesn't capitalize in an engaging way.

Rob S.
12-20-2018, 04:34 PM
I think you're right in that Ring of Honor has never struggled with talent, but more with their identity as a promotion in recent years. They've had such a reliance on their relationship with New Japan, and focused so much time on Bullet Club/The Elite that it's really difficult to say who they are as a company. Much of the time it just feels like talented guys putting on matches with little regard to what Ring of Honor is/was.

XanMan
12-21-2018, 09:12 AM
They have been telling good stories outside of the Elite. Briscoes, SCU, Bully/Flip, Taven's rise; Lethal's rise back to the top, Castle's embattled championship run. I'm not saying the Elite weren't big draws, but the company will still be excellent without them just like they were without Joe, Punk, Danielson, Black, Steen, etc. Yeah, it's a big clump of talent to use at once, but they are reloading. I have no idea who Mark Haskins is.

Prime Time
12-21-2018, 09:26 AM
He's from our side of the pond and has been a bit of a player with people like Progress. I think it's probably fair to say that when he's been over in the US he's mostly been turning out for PWG?

mizfan
12-21-2018, 01:30 PM
I guess by default you could say Haskins is a PWG guy, but they didn't book him once this year so it's not really a strong connection. He was actually on the ROH UK tour in August, tho not sure how much of that was broadcast.

To Xan's point, I guess you're right that ROH has done some story stuff without NJPW/BC in the past couple years, but for better or worse it's been pretty overshadowed. I think ROH will be ok regardless but some of the talent they're signing has been THRIVING and I'd hate to see their momentum stall out if ROH isn't ready with something. Can't say I'm overly taken with the Villain Enterprises thing for PCO and Brody King, love both guys but I don't know if it's the right fit for them. Time will tell, I guess!

mizfan
02-08-2019, 05:03 PM
Interested to hear how ROH is doing with such a big talent switch up happening recently, especially with MSG coming up. Can't say I've heard much yet, so it'll be interesting to see what they put together. Gotta wonder what the crowd reaction will considering, many must have booked with the idea that they'd be seeing guys like Kenny Omega.

Speaking of, watched this older match recently...

Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black vs. Kenny Omega 11/8/2008 ROH Bound By Hate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYa-ApmwiIc

Watched this one at the suggestion of good ol’ Gooner. Pretty interesting to look back a decade and see the top guys of Raw, Smackdown, and New Japan (well, until recently) facing off! At this point in their careers I’d say it’s very obvious Danielson is holding the hands of the other two to a certain extent, both are supremely athletic but it’s definitely Bryan holding the match together into something cohesive. He does a stupendous job of doing just that, and there are some awesome spots worked in as well. A lionsault onto a bridging pinfall escape is the moment that stood out to me as being especially awesome. Overall this was a great match for showing off the potential of all involved, and now a very interesting curiousity as well due to where the careers of all three men have gone.

meandi
02-09-2019, 09:04 PM
Less than two minutes in and the double cattle mutilation. I have a feeling this is gonna be a fun match.

Wow... that Roaring Elbow from AmDrag to Omega followed by the mma elbows into Cattle Mutilation. The last 2:30ish of that match was freaking awesome. Thanks for sharing.

mizfan
02-11-2019, 12:16 AM
My pleasure, glad you liked it!

meandi
03-15-2019, 09:43 PM
Just read something on the main page about Jay Lethal breaking a record as the champ. Went to Wiki for some quick research, and all I can gather is it’s because he’s been champ 670+ combined days. That beats Samoa Joe’s 645 day record as champ. Only thing... Joe only had one reign vs Lethal’s two reigns. I hate when company’s “bend” statistics, so to speak.

mizfan
03-15-2019, 11:05 PM
Also a pretty stark contrast between how hot Joe was at that time and how... not hot Lethal is. I like Lethal but it feels like he's only champion because they don't have any ideas and they know he probably won't jump ship at this point.

meandi
03-16-2019, 12:02 AM
I've always loved Lethal. From when he was no one in TNA's X- Division up until he was throwing shoes and whooing at Flair. I just don't like companies bending the stats and making it sound like he's something more than he's not.

IE... WWE could've praised Punk even more-so than his 436 or however many day reign it was by adding in his big gold belt titles and when he first won the WWE title from Cena at MITB '11. But the 'E focused solely on the second WWE title reign and built up that 436 day reign as something spectacular instead of adding in his other reigns.

LK3185
03-16-2019, 10:08 AM
WWE apparently has zero interest in Lethal. Delirous is a terrible booker that loves to push his most loyal guys even if they're not good like Matt Taven. Instead of stars who could and should have been on top of the promotion. Lethal is good but Marty and others have been pushed aside for him and others like him and its going to cost ROH in the end. Especially when they crown Taven at MSG in a triple threat cause Marty is leaving the company.

mizfan
03-16-2019, 04:20 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't go so far as to say Taven's bad but the idea of him as ROH champion is entirely uninteresting.

LK3185
03-16-2019, 11:46 PM
Its not that Taven is really bad, its the idea he should be world champion/leader of a company. The only way it can work is if you have a strong face people want to see kill Taven and they don't really have that.

mizfan
03-17-2019, 08:45 PM
For sure, and the idea of him wrestling Lethal for an hour is... yeesh. It's a no thank you from me.

LK3185
03-18-2019, 12:36 AM
if you like car crash wrestling, The Briscoes vs. PCO and Brody King was really fun. Not usually my type of match but they played to all four men's strength and it was done well.

Also Cobb vs Taylor was a really good hoss battle.

mizfan
03-18-2019, 12:48 PM
Big fan of PCO, the fact that he ended up main eventing an ROH anniversary show is both absurd and wonderful.

Prime Time
04-26-2019, 08:13 AM
So, RoH have three teams in the upcoming Crockett Cup this weekend.

mizfan
04-26-2019, 09:06 AM
Pulling for PCO and Brody King to win the whole thing!

Though they likely won't.

Degenerate
06-29-2019, 02:48 AM
I haven't been following Ring of Honor much, but it looks like they're massively struggling right now. Today's Best In The World show looks like it sold really badly.

mizfan
06-29-2019, 10:43 AM
And they had a chance to put the title on Jeff Cobb and didn't go for it. I honestly don't know what they see in Taven, he's not awful but even with a super thin roster it seems like there are guys who blow him out of the water.

Prime Time
06-29-2019, 11:09 AM
When I saw the pictures of that attendance the first words that popped into my head were 'circling the drain'.

Now that's probably an overreaction to be honest, but even so, it's clearly not good when that's the instinctive response.

Degenerate
06-29-2019, 08:21 PM
I thought that ROH was mostly suffering from The Elite leaving, but from what I've read, the main problem seems to be that booking is not that great. The general consensus is that no one likes Matt Taven as the champ, and having him beat Jeff Cobb lose clean in a short championship match made people even more upset. There were also people scratching their heads at some of the outcomes of the matches with guys like Bandido and Dragon Lee taking losses. Out of the whole show, the only thing that looked interesting to me was Flip Gordon's heel turn and joining Villain Enterprises.

PEN15v2
07-01-2019, 11:38 AM
ROH is a perfectly serviceable promotion. But there's very little that stands out about it in 2019. With so many promotions putting out the quality of matches we saw in ROH at its peak (2008 in my opinion), they either need to find something fresh, or accept their place below WWE and AEW, while sort of tied with Impact.

As for Taven, I'm a fan. He's a solid heel.

Oliver
07-13-2019, 12:51 PM
So it seems Alex Shelley has returned and is immediately in the title picture.

I am amazed that Shelley is only 36. Feels like I've been watching him almost my whole wrestling fandom!

mizfan
07-13-2019, 01:51 PM
A little surprised he came back, as it felt like he was ready to leave it behind, but hard to stop that itch I guess. I hope the run goes really well for him, he's got so much to offer.

Cult Icon
07-13-2019, 02:27 PM
As for Taven, I'm a fan. He's a solid heel.


This is underselling it; Matt Taven is a great heel. Hell I'd argue he's a great performer. I've seen Taven work several CMLL tours and every time he's gone there he's produced several memorable matches and some legitimately good character work. If anything he's another victim of Ring of Honor's terrible creative team, and it's funny how when everyone bring up ROH's creative woes they never attribute that to Taven's issues. Everything else is ROH's fault but Taven; well he's just immune to that. The reality is that ROH has kept him in that lame Kingdom stable for years now and have surrounded him with guys like TK O'Ryan and Vinny Marseglia, two of the most boring workers in the history of time. Away from them and the Kingdom concept in CMLL Taven has been a legit star. With them he's the leader of a stable that should've ended several years ago surrounded by below average talent. In a different way he's very much been hurt by the same thing Roman Reigns has been and just like Reigns it isn't really Taven's fault. He's a really good performer being backed by a creative team that needed to be overhauled three years ago.

PEN15v2
07-14-2019, 01:38 AM
So it seems Alex Shelley has returned and is immediately in the title picture.

I am amazed that Shelley is only 36. Feels like I've been watching him almost my whole wrestling fandom!

I work on the Friday that match takes place, with my in-laws in town ,and tickets to NXT Takeover the next night. If I feel I can push my soon to be fiance to go to ANOTHER wrestling show in Toronto, I'll be doing it for seeing Alex Shelley.

PEN15v2
09-23-2019, 02:27 PM
I know it's the one promotion that doesn't seem to be making any waves or headlines, but I'm really enjoying ROH as a WWE alternative.

Joe Hendry teaming with Dalton Castle? I love it
Tension between Jay Lethal and Jonathan Gresham? I love it
Silas Young slowly turning face with Josh Woods leading the way? I love it.
Good feud and wrestling between Villain Enterprises and Lifeblood.
I'm a fan of Matt Taven.
Shane Taylor is the type of guy who wouldn't work all that well in WWE, but stands out greatly in ROH, and is making it work with solid in ring performances.

There's some terrible stuff in ROH (WOH is passable at best), but their main shows have been great TV.
Sadly, their new TV style has been entirely skippable.

mizfan
09-23-2019, 07:32 PM
I do think there is some good talent in ROH, and even some good ideas. They don't seem to lend themselves very well to new fans though. Sounds like they may be losing Shane Taylor soon as well, which is a shame.

Prime Time
11-22-2019, 08:05 AM
Bit of a situation I'm hearing about RoH and Kelly Klein, though people who follow the company more closely will probably know more.

Oliver
11-22-2019, 09:14 AM
I've only caught the headlines on it, but it seems like she has been fired while dealing with post-concussion syndrome. I think it may be to do with her giving Joey Mercury an email or something in all of that news the other week?

The RoH perspective seems to be that they haven't fired here, but have told her they are not renewing her contract.

PEN15v2
11-22-2019, 12:57 PM
Despite ROH delivering better PPV or big event shows than Impact, MLW, and AEW (in my opinion), it's the promotion in most trouble right now. Buzz is low and mostly terrible, and this isn't going to help at all.

Team Farrell
11-22-2019, 01:16 PM
Fuuuuuuuuck that company. Kelly is a gem of a human being and deserves so much better. All the girls there do.

mizfan
11-22-2019, 03:45 PM
Yeah, everything coming out of this situation seems to reflect terribly on ROH's current management. Beyond the Kelly Klein thing, which apparently included them asking her to travel to Africa and wrestle while she had a concussion and them refusing to bump her up to a salary of $24,000 despite being champion (which is not even a living wage, for those outside the US), even before this Joey Mercury has been revealing a lot of issues which seem to be backed up by evidence.

One that stuck out in particular is calling out ROH for a lack of security or medical personnel, including Alex Shelly having to use his medical training to deal with injuries despite only being hired as a wrestler.

Cult Icon
11-22-2019, 08:08 PM
Just to clarify mizfan, Kelly herself has said ROH did not force her to work that show in Africa and she didn't end up working it. Now of course they still had no idea she had a concussion prior to that and would've had her work it if it hadn't been caught by herself and Mercury but hey...they didn't force her to work the show. Small victory.

This is a disaster. An absolute disaster. I know Sean Ross Sapp has said there are ROH talent there that are happy and well paid but if it were me, I'd never be able to trust this promotion ever again as long as Joe Koff and Greg Gilleland (the CEO and GM of ROH respectively) are still in positions of power. If I were a fan I don't know how I could ever trust this promotion again with those two in power. Unless ROH/Sinclair/whoever gets rid of them immediately I think it's just going to get worse for ROH. And it was already bad to begin with given how much attendance and buzz has slumped this year. I don't think this is the end of ROH because Sinclair has so much money but if not for that this feels like it could potentially be a company killer. And it's by their own misconduct.

I will say this as well though; Kelly Klein is very clearly making a stand here because she wants the place to improve. To me, Joey Mercury is making a stand because he wants to get back at Koff and Gilleland and doesn't seem like he'd mind if ROH went down. And to me...that's kind of low. ROH should absolutely be roasted for this and Koff and Gilleland need to be fired immediately. But it almost feels like Mercury is taking glee in some of this viatrol he's aiming at them and at the end of the day this is still a company with a bunch of talent who has nothing to do with Koff and Gilleland being terrible bosses. Klein's approach to me just seems a lot better to me than Mercury's.

mizfan
11-25-2019, 12:48 PM
I'm honestly just glad Joey decided to speak up at all. We can nitpick his method but if he hadn't, most likely none of this stuff would have come out. I'd like to see more people speak up about stuff like this in wrestling.

PEN15v2
12-16-2019, 01:36 PM
Here's another Pen praise for ROH, while the rest of the online fans wonder if I've gone nuts.

I really enjoyed Final Battle. I haven't finished Into the Fire yet, but I prefer ROH's event over TLC for sure. I just wish they had an actual TV program to keep up. These weekly recaps shows with matches aired from 3-4 weeks prior is killing excitement. I haven't read the Fallout spoilers, but I hope these air on their TV program as fresh matches.

But, they have some work ahead of them to get me to care about PCO as World Champ. He's super exciting, but a bit of a one trick pony in the one promotion where you can't get away with it. And Rush is still the guy I think any promotion would want to sink their hooks into and let run wild. Unless it's his limitations on the mic holding him back, I really can't see how PCO creates a better main event draw than Rush.

Degenerate
01-14-2020, 10:31 PM
What do people think of Marty Scurll not only re-signing with RoH, but gaining booker duties as well? Will his input be enough to steer the company back into decent shape?

Interestingly enough, after the announcement of Marty's signing, Ring of Honor announced that Jay White would be a part of Supercard of Honor. Not sure if Marty had anything to do with that, but it's an interesting development after how the relationship between NJPW and RoH seemed to have crumbled.

PEN15v2
01-15-2020, 12:41 AM
I can't say whether Marty has the mind for this job or not, but there's no denying that ROH was struggling, so I'll always vote that taking a chance is worth the risk. We'll see how this goes with NJPW and NWA involvement. It's certainly an interesting development.

That said, I still haven't hated ROH like so many others. Like all wrestling shows, some matches aren't as good or not my style, so I really feel it's the storytelling and characters that make the difference between promotions and shows. There's a lot I enjoy from ROH, but it's all low key midcard stuff or entertaining characters who I'm just waiting to have direction: the team of Josh Woods and Silas Young, the team of Dalton Castle and Joe Hendry, fresh talented champs in Gresham and Lethal, the Shane Taylor promotions angle, VINCENT's stable, Maria Manic/Bully Ray...etc. All interesting angles or characters, but nothing that's at the top of the card or a main draw to the shows.

Though I purposely left off RUSH. That guy is a star, and I'm just not sure what ROH is doing. I discussed this with Cult Icon off-LOP, and he was telling me how much stronger he is as a heel. I'm in no way arguing, but I was so ready to get behind him as the face of the company. This change in direction isn't very interesting to me so far. Lucha is my least favorite wrestling style, so having him in a stable with Dragon Lee seems to be bringing out more of the Lucha style from RUSH. I find that to be "meh" (just like the new trios champs).

On my USB key, I had Hard To Kill, Sunday's ROH show, Dynamite from last week, and the last 3-4 episodes of MLW Fusion. And I chose to watch ROH this evening because overall I'm more interested in these shows. ROH just has more to offer overall. If Marty can improve on that, I doubt you'll hear me complain.

mizfan
01-16-2020, 05:12 PM
SUPER agreed on Rush being a star. The dude just seems so charismatic, he's got that rare aura about him.

I think Scurll taking over is a good thing, on it's face. So many people were down on ROH last year, whether they watched it or not. They had to do something to show they were changing their approach, so even if it's just a question of quietly removing the stuff fans didn't like and focusing on the things they are doing right then I think it could help them a lot.

Oliver
01-17-2020, 05:28 AM
Does Marty have any previous in that sort of role? I was surprised when I read he'd got the chance to take it up - obviously you can't just write people off when they have no experience of being on creative, because people don't just gain that easily. Just seems curious to me, at a time when I think RoH could do with an experienced creative hand they're elevating someone with little experience of doing that to the role.

In all honesty, I've only dipped in and out of RoH when something of interest has grabbed me (basically Dragon Lee and Rush) over the past year or so. I thought the decision to have Rush unbeaten for 11 months only to lose to PCO was weird. I think Rush should be the man in the promotion, I have little to no idea what people see in PCO personally, and I don't think any of that makes sense.

Maybe a new creative angle is just what they need, especially after the stuff with Mercury and Kelly Klein, which cast a dark cloud over the end of their 2019.

mizfan
01-17-2020, 05:41 PM
Well I freakin' love PCO so I can't fault them for giving him a shot, though he did feel a lot hotter when he first came in.

I don't remember hearing about Scurll acting as a booker before, though you've got to assume he's been the driving force behind his own character stuff, which if nothing else has had a lot of bells and whistles attached. I also think the other side of the coin is asking who out there is an experienced creative hand that fans would be interested in? I can't think of anybody much who isn't spoken for, except maybe Kevin Sullivan, but I don't think that would create much interest in 2020.