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Prime Time
07-02-2019, 05:48 AM
Starting a specific thread for the AEW event All Out, August 31st from the Sears Centre.

So far we've got Moxley vs Omega
Hangman Page vs Chris Jericho for the AEW Championship


Discussion, speculation and all the rest of it goes here.

mizfan
07-05-2019, 02:25 PM
Spears vs. Cody seems like a lock at this point. Not the match I would have picked for Cody but I said the same about Dustin at first, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.

Curious what the Bucks do, they've pretty much just feuded with the Lucha Bros but I'd rather see them mix it up. Not sure who is the best fit though, doesn't feel like any other teams have been built up enough yet.

Hope they find something important for Darby Allin to do!

Prime Time
08-15-2019, 07:16 AM
Updated card:

Page vs Jericho - AEW title
Moxley vs Omega
Best Friends vs Dark Order - for a first round bye in the tag title tournament
Lucha Brothers vs Young Bucks - AAA tag titles
Cody vs Shawn Spears
Allin vs Havoc vs Janela - triple threat
21-woman casino battle royal - winner advances to compete to become inaugral AEW Women's champion

mizfan
08-15-2019, 11:56 AM
Page vs Jericho - AEW title
-Still a little underwhelmed by this, though Page did cut a very good promo (finally) on Road to All Out. Hope it delivers.

Moxley vs Omega
-Should be a real crowd pleaser, especially since Moxley has shown himself highly capable in that beloved New Japan style. You've got to figure the winner is likely for the first title shot.

Best Friends vs Dark Order - for a first round bye in the tag title tournament
-I have no doubt I'll enjoy this, I just hope others do. I've seen criticisms of the way both these teams have been presented, and they're not without merit. Some tweaking may be in order on this one.

Lucha Brothers vs Young Bucks - AAA tag titles
-This is scheduled to be a ladder match, and I've no doubt it'll feature some incredible spots. I'm personally feeling burned out on these two teams wrestling each other, but you've got to figure if nothing else this will put their issue to rest. My ideal scenario is the Bucks win and Fenix and Penta go back to their singles careers.

Cody vs Shawn Spears
-I was unenthused about Shawn Spears coming to AEW and getting a big spot, and I still am to some degree, but I'm happy to say the way they are building this up is increasing my interest a lot. The appearance of Tully Blanchard as Spears' manager, the way they've raised the stakes and emotions, and the pure fact that Cody has yet to let me down in AEW makes me think this could be my favorite of the night when all is said and done.

Allin vs Havoc vs Janela - triple threat
-Three guys known for throwing caution to the wind, albeit in slightly different ways. I've been clear I'm a huge Allin fan so I hope this is a good showcase for him. Curious if this'll be a straight match or if they'll throw a hardcore stipulation in the mix, and I'm not sure which I'd prefer.

21-woman casino battle royal - winner advances to compete to become inaugural AEW Women's champion
-Not entirely pleased that another battle royal will determine an inaugural contender for a top championship, since it was underwhelming when they did it with Page, but on the plus side this should give them a chance to showcase some very talented women and cherry pick the best available.

Cult Icon
08-15-2019, 01:21 PM
Lucha Brothers vs Young Bucks - AAA tag titles
-This is scheduled to be a ladder match, and I've no doubt it'll feature some incredible spots. I'm personally feeling burned out on these two teams wrestling each other, but you've got to figure if nothing else this will put their issue to rest. My ideal scenario is the Bucks win and Fenix and Penta go back to their singles careers.

Maybe if the AAA Tag Titles weren't on the line that result would be ideal but there's absolutely nothing ideal about AAA giving their tag titles back to a team who, at best, will only be appearing every now and then in AAA the rest of the year. The Lucha Brothers absolutely should win this, and them being tag team champions in Mexico should not keep them from being both a tag team and singles stars in AEW.

mizfan
08-15-2019, 02:01 PM
Honestly I'll take any outcome that splits Penta and Fenix apart in AEW. I just think they have so much more to offer separately at this point.

Cult Icon
08-15-2019, 02:37 PM
I don't know about that. I'm certainly ready for this chapter of Bucks-Lucha Brothers to be over but that's the only match up the Lucha Brothers have exhausted in AEW. There's still matches against The Dark Order, Best Friends, The Addiction, Private Party, LAX should they arrive (who they have fought but not in this stage) and probably several other teams AEW could bring in that would be enticing for Pentagon and Fenix. And again, there is no rule written down somewhere that says Pentagon and Fenix can't be single stars while still teaming together; they've done it in AAA and they've done it in Impact. I think it's very easy for AEW, if they want, to have Pentagon and Fenix be tag stars while also doing stuff in singles.

Oliver
08-16-2019, 08:32 AM
Let's be honest here Cult - AEW needs to sign Mil Muertes and redo the Fenix vs Mil feud.

Our Cero Miedo hero, however, can move on and fuck shit up against Chris Jericho, preferably retiring him to his little podcast in his garage whilst taking the AEW Championship from him.

Then a 600 day reign of terror over AEW, only to be ended by the debut of LA Park in December 2021.

PEN15v2
08-16-2019, 10:55 AM
Thanks Oliver, I just threw up in my mouth.

mizfan
08-16-2019, 10:55 AM
Pentagon eventually targeting Jericho is a must for me, after the way Jericho disrespected him at All In. Could see a lot of good in that scenario.

This is just my personal preference talking, Cult, but I do feel like Pentagon is in some way reduced when he's focusing on the Lucha Bros. Dude can be the absolute epitome of cool but the style of the Lucha Bros usually makes him feel like Fenix's sidekick. Just my own feeling, that's all.

PEN15v2
08-16-2019, 12:21 PM
This is just my personal preference talking, Cult, but I do feel like Pentagon is in some way reduced when he's focusing on the Lucha Bros. Dude can be the absolute epitome of cool but the style of the Lucha Bros usually makes him feel like Fenix's sidekick. Just my own feeling, that's all.

As a non-Lucha fan, I've had this discussion with Cult a couple of times. I feel like Pentagon is the true star. I once pushed his buttons by saying Fenix's last name was Jannetty. Pentagon can be a main eventer in any promotion in the world. I don't believe that about Fenix.

But again, I've not watched any Lucha, other than LU until season 3 (I'm in the middle of the Cueto cup right now) and maybe 5 appearances on the Impact/AEWs I've seen.

mizfan
08-16-2019, 01:56 PM
I love Fenix, I think he's got all the athletic ability that many fans want today and yet he's also capable of drawing sympathy from the audience. But yeah, when we're talking max star potential, I just see more in Penta.

Benjamin Button
08-18-2019, 09:09 PM
really like both those guys in Lucha Underground. Thing is Fenixx was a good white meat baby face, even having a sort of "rise from the ashes come back" that works good for a good guy..its those simple things like "how are they going to come back from that" that works.

Pentagon had an edge and danger to him

Seeing them now as a team, I think they're marketable but together I feel like they're canceling out what I liked most about of both of them.

mizfan
08-19-2019, 12:21 AM
Exactly, as good as they can be athletically I'm just not getting the same character vibes I want to see. If they can make it work as both tag and singles, great, but I want to see more attention to the singles right now.

LK3185
08-19-2019, 05:14 AM
I agree with above and also AEW can def use them in both roles but The Bucks are always going to be team and likely the top team, so build others up and then split Penta and Fenix.. I don't think they are needed as a team if you have other teams that can take their spots.

But no one can really fill what they bring in singles imo.

Cult Icon
08-19-2019, 10:55 AM
I still think you guys are really underestimating what they bring to the table as a tag team. Yes they've proven to be great singles stars and will have the chance to do so again but there's also no need to break up the Lucha Brothers when they've feuded with approximately one AEW Tag Team and have fresh match ups waiting. I cannot recall a single time they've faced The Dark Order, the Best Friends, Jungle Boy/Luchasaurus, Private Party or the Angelico/Jack Evans team, and while they fought the Kazarian/Scorpio Sky team they haven't fought The Addiction version of SCU, and they haven't done an LAX feud to a wide audience before (presuming LAX does go there which is the rumor). And that's just the teams I can think of in AEW now. I think the exhaustion caused from The Young Bucks feud has made people anxious to see Pentagon and Fenix as singles stars again and has made them forget a) there's more to do in the tag division and b) the tag division is the quickest way to establish themselves as stars. There time as singles stars will come. For now I have no problem with them doing both or just being a team. There's a lot of fun to be had and I know for a fact that it's also what they want to do the most at this moment.

Team Farrell
08-19-2019, 11:09 AM
Man, I watched TripleMania this weekend (I know Cult, but I was out of other shows) and I'm so over Pentagon's "cero miedo" stuff. That spot where he grinds the match to a halt to take off his gloves frustrates me every time. I find him to be so disinteresting.

It's exactly what I meant when I called Orange Cassidy a "travelling indy" gimmick. I'm sure it's super cool when you see it live and get to chant along. But when I've seen it on three AEW shows this year, TripleMania and I'm sure a handful of random indy shows I've watched, I'm over it. It's annoying to me that Kenny didn't just punch him in the back of his head when Penta turned his back on him to take his gloves off.

Penta is athletic as hell, but so is half of the indy scene. So I just find myself not caring.

PEN15v2
08-19-2019, 11:25 AM
The way I book EWR is with everyone in a tag team. Always. If I need to turn someone heel, I bring in a new partner for each guy. Why? Because it creates options moving forward. Pentagon going for the AEW World title seems like a likely option down the road, and Page and Jericho could each have partners in some way (Jericho has 2 for the TV debut, Page is likely going to be associated with Omega/Cody/Bucks in some way until they have to face each other). So a singles feud between Pentagon and Page would serve well to have a main event along the way of Pentagon and Fenix vs Page/Omega, for example.

So I rarely enjoy team splits. I'd much rather they do what The New Day has done in WWE, and have one guy focus on the singles title, while the partner (or partners) have their back. Not everything needs to involve splitting a team up. Thankfully, that seems more like a WWE trope than anything AEW might do, so it should be fine. And eventually, if Pentagon drops the title, he can revert back to chasing the tag titles with Fenix for whoever it the newest hot team in the tag division. It leaves fresh options at any moment.


COACH, I've only seen Pentagon do that a couple of times, and agree 100%. Thankfully, the rest of his act makes up for it, in my opinion. He's the biggest potential singles star out of Mexico (except Rush) in my opinion.

Cult Icon
08-19-2019, 11:51 AM
I mean that stuff takes up what...a minute of the match before he then goes on to be awesome the rest of it? It also pops the crowd pretty much everywhere as well and I'm pretty sure a big part of the game is getting the fans to cheer for you. If that was all he did sure, but it's one minute, it gets the crowd going; it's harmless, especially compared to truly dumb stuff like forgetting to sell your leg in a match built around selling your leg. Wrestling would be a better place if there was more talk about that and less about guys getting over for harmless things like hand gestures and being freshly squeezed.

Also, insinuating that Pentagon is just like half the indie scene pretty much tells me the only Pentagon matches you've seen are the AEW/Triplemania ones and thus have no unearthly idea what you are talking about. Otherwise you'd know that NO ONE is like Pentagon. Nobody looks like him, no one walks like him, no one talks like him and certainly no one is able to cut a promo in Spanish, without subtitles, and still get the point across to the English speaking viewer like he can. In a day of age where not enough people have that special aura you need to be a star, Pentagon 100% has it. And while I do think Fenix is a better, more innovative ring performer who doesn't get that credit because people don't watch enough lucha, at the end of the day Pentagon is a really great worker in his own right who's had some of the most memorable matches I've seen in the last decade. He had an all time classic death match with an out of shape, long past his prime Vampiro for crying out loud. Half of the indie scene ain't doing that shit.

So please Coach, don't come in here saying that Pentagon is like half the indie schmucks because your Cornette Syndrome gets worked up every time he says his catchphrase. I'm telling you; you could travel 10,000 miles in each direction and you won't find anyone like Pentagon Jr. He's special.

Team Farrell
08-19-2019, 12:13 PM
I didn't say that he's "like everyone else". I said that his shtick takes me completely out of it and I now get disappointed knowing that it's going to be coming. After seeing Fenix mixing it up with The Young Bucks in a fast-paced exchange, my heart sank to have Penta tagged in at all because I knew what was coming.

His shtick was a gigantic chunk of their last AEW six man, and a good portion of the match with SCU, too. Shit, in the last one he did it several times with his gloves on, stopped everything to take them off, the ref didn't catch them so he kept everything halted to repeat the spot and at no point did Scorpio Sky just dropkick him out of his boots.

I acknowledged that it pops the live fans. It's a great house show or travelling indy spot. I understand that he's a popular star. I'm not missing any of this nor do I hate his style of wrestling.

What I did say was that I have no interest in the first five or more minutes of his matches right now because I know at some point in there they're going to stop dead so he can have a sing along. He is saved by his athleticism (which half of the indy scene also has) but if this was any wrestler in WWE stopping their match dead to have their opponents stand there with their dicks in their hand while they chanted their popular catchphrase, you'd roast it.

If Seth Rollins stopped his opponent in his tracks after an athletic exchange to make everyone chant Burn it Down with him, in every match, you would not be saying "well, it's only a minute of his match".

I want to see the Pentagon that was frightening and felt like a real bad ass that might snap your arm and take it home with him. Not Fred Penner's singalong.

This isn't "Cornette Syndrome" hating the flippy Mexicans. This is wanting to watch a simulated athletic competition featuring a guy that I already know is super athletic, can go with anyone on the planet, and can really come across as a killer NOT stop dead for no reason.

At least I liked the shit out of Blue Demon Jr vs Dr. Wagner Jr.

PEN15v2
08-19-2019, 12:43 PM
I mean that stuff takes up what...a minute of the match before he then goes on to be awesome the rest of it? It also pops the crowd pretty much everywhere as well and I'm pretty sure a big part of the game is getting the fans to cheer for you. If that was all he did sure, but it's one minute, it gets the crowd going; it's harmless, especially compared to truly dumb stuff like forgetting to sell your leg in a match built around selling your leg. Wrestling would be a better place if there was more talk about that and less about guys getting over for harmless things like hand gestures and being freshly squeezed.

The problem is it takes something quick like this to take someone out of the match. I relate this more to TV shows/movies, but there's some part of whatever you're watching that switches the gears so much that it ruins the rest. I go with Batman The Dark Knight movie as my prime example. Solid film...UNTIL Batman goes into Sonor Mode with all the cell phones, and Chris Nolan shows his weakness as a director, and spams the screen with ridiculous fast footage that makes no sense. I was in the theater and literally threw my hands in the air at that moment, and the movie lost me.

I can see how this can lose people in wrestling.


Also, insinuating that Pentagon is just like half the indie scene pretty much tells me the only Pentagon matches you've seen are the AEW/Triplemania ones and thus have no unearthly idea what you are talking about. Otherwise you'd know that NO ONE is like Pentagon. Nobody looks like him, no one walks like him, no one talks like him and certainly no one is able to cut a promo in Spanish, without subtitles, and still get the point across to the English speaking viewer like he can. In a day of age where not enough people have that special aura you need to be a star, Pentagon 100% has it. And while I do think Fenix is a better, more innovative ring performer who doesn't get that credit because people don't watch enough lucha, at the end of the day Pentagon is a really great worker in his own right who's had some of the most memorable matches I've seen in the last decade. He had an all time classic death match with an out of shape, long past his prime Vampiro for crying out loud. Half of the indie scene ain't doing that shit.

So please Coach, don't come in here saying that Pentagon is like half the indie schmucks because your Cornette Syndrome gets worked up every time he says his catchphrase. I'm telling you; you could travel 10,000 miles in each direction and you won't find anyone like Pentagon Jr. He's special.

The polite way to say the above is "COACH, it looks like you've only seen the spectacle version of Pentagon, because I can tell you it's very different from the standard Pentagon."

See how nice that was? The other way you wrote reminded me of some poster who used to have a main page column about being Mightier... He was a jerk.


I didn't say that he's "like everyone else". I said that his shtick takes me completely out of it and I now get disappointed knowing that it's going to be coming. After seeing Fenix mixing it up with The Young Bucks in a fast-paced exchange, my heart sank to have Penta tagged in at all because I knew what was coming.

His shtick was a gigantic chunk of their last AEW six man, and a good portion of the match with SCU, too. Shit, in the last one he did it several times with his gloves on, stopped everything to take them off, the ref didn't catch them so he kept everything halted to repeat the spot and at no point did Scorpio Sky just dropkick him out of his boots.

I acknowledged that it pops the live fans. It's a great house show or travelling indy spot. I understand that he's a popular star. I'm not missing any of this nor do I hate his style of wrestling.

What I did say was that I have no interest in the first five or more minutes of his matches right now because I know at some point in there they're going to stop dead so he can have a sing along. He is saved by his athleticism (which half of the indy scene also has) but if this was any wrestler in WWE stopping their match dead to have their opponents stand there with their dicks in their hand while they chanted their popular catchphrase, you'd roast it.

If Seth Rollins stopped his opponent in his tracks after an athletic exchange to make everyone chant Burn it Down with him, in every match, you would not be saying "well, it's only a minute of his match".

I want to see the Pentagon that was frightening and felt like a real bad ass that might snap your arm and take it home with him. Not Fred Penner's singalong.

This isn't "Cornette Syndrome" hating the flippy Mexicans. This is wanting to watch a simulated athletic competition featuring a guy that I already know is super athletic, can go with anyone on the planet, and can really come across as a killer NOT stop dead for no reason.

At least I liked the shit out of Blue Demon Jr vs Dr. Wagner Jr.

And with this, I agree. It doesn't bother me as much as it bothers COACH, but it was the weakest point of the Pentagon matches in AEW. This sort of thing works for midcarders; like Santino getting the Cobra ready. But if Santino was a top guy, there's be no earthly way it would be accepted the way it is with Pentagon. And there is definitely a hypocrisy of non-WWE fans praising an indy version of something they'd assault WWE for doing. This is a good example.

Cult Icon
08-19-2019, 12:50 PM
I didn't say that he's "like everyone else".


You said "Penta is ultra athletic but so are half the guys on the indies." That sounds a lot to me like "this guy has ability, but he's not that much different than any one else you can find elsewhere." And that would be wrong.



What I did say was that I have no interest in the first five or more minutes of his matches right now because I know at some point in there they're going to stop dead so he can have a sing along. He is saved by his athleticism (which half of the indy scene also has) but if this was any wrestler in WWE stopping their match dead to have their opponents stand there with their dicks in their hand while they chanted their popular catchphrase, you'd roast it.

If Seth Rollins stopped his opponent in his tracks after an athletic exchange to make everyone chant Burn it Down with him, in every match, you would not be saying "well, it's only a minute of his match".

I would absolutely be saying that if it got over. If it didn't I would roast him, but if the fans are cheering then that's all that matters. I have been around wrestling long enough to know that the single most important things in this business are getting over with the audience and drawing tickets. Whether that's by good wrestling, good storytelling, good comedy or whatever isn't important; as long as it happens. So if Seth Rollins stopping a match to chant Burn It Down gets him over, I'm all for it. Frankly I think he should try it. It help him a lot more than his dumb rants on Twitter or his routine of selling his leg most of the match before going right into a dive.



At least I liked the shit out of Blue Demon Jr vs Dr. Wagner Jr.


I'm glad you put this here because it proves there is still indeed hope for you! What a tremendous match this was and I'm very excited I'll get to see the rematch at MSG.

Team Farrell
08-19-2019, 03:05 PM
I'm glad you put this here because it proves there is still indeed hope for you! What a tremendous match this was and I'm very excited I'll get to see the rematch at MSG.
You going to MSG? That Hulu Theater looks like a badass place for a wrestling show.

More matches need to end with a chunk of fucking concrete to the back of the head. My girlfriend thought that the match was a little too much, but I loved that it was a blood bath with two guys who just couldn't afford to take the L fighting to the end.

mizfan
08-19-2019, 05:00 PM
I'm so over Pentagon's "cero miedo" stuff. That spot where he grinds the match to a halt to take off his gloves frustrates me every time.

I will say, putting the rest of the debate aside, I totally agree with this. I'm not over Penta at all, but when he started incorporating that spot it was the first time he took a hit in my eyes.

This is totally my own feeling so don't slam me Cult, but I do feel like the Young Bucks had a big influence on both the Lucha Bros and not for the better, particularly on Pentagon. I'm looking for the biggest badass in wrestling but he's spending time being cutesy, playing to the crowd, and imitating Fenix's dives, only not quite as good. All those tag matches you mentioned, Cult, I've no doubt I'll enjoy a lot of them but they don't draw me in the way the idea of either guy breaking out on their own does. I've been impressed by Lucha Bros matches but I've never been moved by one the way Penta and Fenix have moved me on their own, and that's not just Lucha Underground I'm talking about.

Not saying AEW must split them up, only that it's what I'd most like to see! They can still be allied and team from time to time, but the more they pursue their own thing the more likely I'll be drawn to them.

LK3185
08-19-2019, 05:05 PM
My thing is the current singles top guy really dont do much for me.. I mean i like Omega, enjoy Cody more the most but I can totally see Jericho act growing old after seeing him more weekly if thats the plan. Adam Page as the chosen young star is meh. Shawn Spears is just a good hand as Cody would say

Darby is a crash dummy but by far the most interesting from the group. You add Penta and Fenix to that regularly, the singles side has some depth

mizfan
08-19-2019, 05:50 PM
Hopefully they won't overexpose Jericho. I think you can get a good couple years out of him if he's used well. I'm confident Cody will continue to rise in the fan's estimation, and hopefully Page and Spears will surpass expectations. Don't forget Moxley, and don't undersell Allin! He's an incredible bumper but he's so much more than that. Lots of possibilities, I think, but Penta and Fenix would spice up the scene no matter what.

Cult Icon
08-19-2019, 06:08 PM
You going to MSG? That Hulu Theater looks like a badass place for a wrestling show.

More matches need to end with a chunk of fucking concrete to the back of the head. My girlfriend thought that the match was a little too much, but I loved that it was a blood bath with two guys who just couldn't afford to take the L fighting to the end.

Yes as a member of the press too! I'm taking the train to New York that day, taking in the show and then heading home via train the same night. Really looking forward to it; AAA is the best promotion this year in my eyes and that coupled with the Wagner-Demon rematch, Cain Velasquez and Taya/Tessa has me really stoked.

The only issue I had with Wagner-Demon was that Blue Demon's kid had no idea what he was doing and missed his timing tripping up Tirantes, thus making them do the spot again (he also held that cinder block up for an abnormally long time). Beyond that it was excellent, and I was expecting it to be great given that they had a tremendous match earlier in the year and Wagner is still so charismatic. I'm going to remember the spot with the hammer and the subsequent arm bars for a long time. Just some absolutely gripping stuff given the stakes.

Team Farrell
08-19-2019, 06:13 PM
I forgot about Velasquez! Unreal how good he looked in his debut. I audibly popped for his step up rana. That shit's not easy when you aren't 260-lbs, let alone when you are.

Oliver
08-20-2019, 11:09 AM
Valasquez's debut was one of the best I've seen, I think. Absolutely excellent stuff.

Prime Time
08-23-2019, 05:13 PM
You've covered this in the other thread, but scratch Omega and Moxley from the All Out card...

T.O.
08-23-2019, 05:30 PM
Vince knew all along. He always wins.

Fuck Vince.

ETA: PAC announced as the replacement.

Benjamin Button
08-23-2019, 05:33 PM
Maybe a high level winner gets first title match replacement. Think they should go huge. Maybe, a press conference. Talk about stakes...But who's out there?

Cult Icon
08-23-2019, 05:44 PM
Never fear lads; Moxley may be gone, but he has been replaced by one devious bastard.

T.O.
08-23-2019, 05:48 PM
They didn't sign me, you dummy.

Benjamin Button
08-23-2019, 05:49 PM
Yah!

mizfan
08-23-2019, 08:05 PM
Bad timing for Moxley but I'm down with PAC as the replacement! And he dropped the Dragon Gate championship back in July, so I doubt they'll run into the issue with booking they did before. Really glad PAC's back in the fold, hope they can put the other stuff to bed and capitalize on him.

PEN15v2
08-23-2019, 08:49 PM
It's really hard to take anyone who says that PAC vs Omega is a better option seriously. It's pure "silver lining" thinking, which I don't blame you for, but lying to yourselves about it is silly. All Out is a card based off only 3 stories worth covering on The Road To, and now one of them is no longer on the show. It's also the top choice match for any crossover fans, which despite Cody's silly ramblings, is very important for a new company. PAC vs Omega may end up being a better "workrate" match, but AEW isn't lacking for that type of match up, so it's delivering more of the same. Moxley vs Omega was a unique match up on the card, and is therefore a huge blow to lose.

Benjamin Button
08-23-2019, 09:07 PM
It's really hard to take anyone who says that PAC vs Omega is a better option seriously. It's pure "silver lining" thinking, which I don't blame you for, but lying to yourselves about it is silly. All Out is a card based off only 3 stories worth covering on The Road To, and now one of them is no longer on the show. It's also the top choice match for any crossover fans, which despite Cody's silly ramblings, is very important for a new company. PAC vs Omega may end up being a better "workrate" match, but AEW isn't lacking for that type of match up, so it's delivering more of the same. Moxley vs Omega was a unique match up on the card, and is therefore a huge blow to lose.




I didnt see anyone say that this is great for business if that's what you mean.

I think shit happens and most here like the replacement. Some may well like the replacement more.

PEN15v2
08-23-2019, 09:15 PM
That was copied and pasted from another discussion elsewhere. So while nobody here might have said this directly, I know that sentiment exists, and I'm assuming at least one person here fits this description.

Cult Icon
08-24-2019, 01:03 AM
I mean at the end of the day whether people think Pac-Omega was a better option than Moxley-Omega is moot. The match had to be pulled and this was the best alternate option AEW had, barring CM Punk being called in. Omega-Christopher Daniels would've been intriguing but still disappointing, Omega-MJF shouldn't be done until MJF is more established, Omega-Laredo Kid (who seems to be the replacement whenever AEW needs one) would've been outstanding while having nowhere near the buzz and everyone else save Dustin Rhodes (who is semi-retired it seems) was either booked, not a good choice or a rematch. So while I am disappointed that we aren't seeing Moxley-Omega right now, they needed something and putting together a match featuring another former WWE star who people do recognize (not to the extent of Moxley but still) who also is a great potential opponent for Omega...I mean I'm not sure what more could be asked of them. They were put in a terrible situation, found a match that can respectably fill the void and can still go back to Moxley-Omega in the future, while also potentially creating something here with Pac.

The more concerning news is Fenix' potential injury. I was at Big Time Wrestling's McCoy Stadium event in Pawtucket, Rhode Island tonight where Fenix and Pentagon headlined against Juventud Guerrera and Teddy Hart in a two out of three falls match. After superkicking Hart in fall three, Fenix went over to pick up one of his opponents (I believe it was Juvy but it could've been Teddy; does it really matter either way?) and suddenly fell to the mat clutching his leg. The match was quickly ended and he went to the back. Some people are saying its a broken leg but that is false; the injury appeared to happen after he stepped towards Juvy or Teddy, which suggests a freak accident. We'll see, but obviously that now puts the ladder match in danger, which makes you wonder if AEW is suddenly just snake bitten.

Mr Chop
08-24-2019, 11:20 AM
everyone else save Dustin Rhodes .

I'd have taken that match in a fucking heartbeat!

Agree with the overall sentiment though, Pac is about as good a replacement they could get with whos available. Glad Mox will be back for the TV debut though, I think that's far more important.

Team Farrell
08-24-2019, 01:09 PM
Good to hear Fenix is okay. He's apparently wrestling tonight. Might have just rolled an ankle which, in the moment, can seem like a HELL of a lot worse than it is.

I'm sad to hear about Mox's infection. I hope this doesn't become a recurring issue for him for the rest of his career.

Cult Icon
08-24-2019, 01:13 PM
The only issues I would've had with a potential Omega-Dustin match is a) Dustin seems to be set on riding off into the sunset, b) a potential Dustin-Omega match should be built up properly (though in fairness, Pac-Omega should be as well) and c) Pac-Omega is just the bigger match of the two. There's certainly people who would've preferred Dustin-Omega but in terms of appeal I don't think it would've grabbed fans as a whole the way Pac-Omega will grab fans. It wouldn't have been a bad choice though if AEW didn't have the Pac card to play.

T.O.
08-24-2019, 02:03 PM
I'd have taken that match in a fucking heartbeat!

Agree with the overall sentiment though, Pac is about as good a replacement they could get with whos available. Glad Mox will be back for the TV debut though, I think that's far more important.

Arn Anderson is available. Should have fucking booked him.

Cult Icon
08-24-2019, 02:44 PM
Arn Anderson is available. Should have fucking booked him.

He was the original choice, but then he gave Pac his spot.

T.O.
08-24-2019, 08:09 PM
Maybe the mysterious masked man Cultico?

Cult Icon
08-24-2019, 11:36 PM
...seriously?! I gave you an easy WCW reference and you missed it! What am I going to do with you?

Benjamin Button
08-25-2019, 03:19 AM
Just to be clear, the spot Arn gave Pac was not his dog spot or his liver spot but HIS spot. Correct?

Mr Chop
08-25-2019, 10:40 AM
Wait, does this mean PAC is going to join the NWO?

T.O.
08-25-2019, 01:03 PM
4 life, brother.

Iken, I have the Steinerbot reassembled. Don't step to me again.

Oliver
08-27-2019, 05:50 AM
Arn Anderson is available. Should have fucking booked him.

Arn vs Omega is an 8 star match. AEW are cowards for not booking it.

T.O.
08-27-2019, 11:31 AM
Arn could contract MRSA and walk away unscathed.

Benjamin Button
08-31-2019, 07:28 PM
For once, AEW, we're off to a good start.

comfortablynumb
08-31-2019, 08:03 PM
There is a lot of men and not a lot of women in that building. They just showed crowd shots for five minutes and I counted about six women.

The event itself is off to a good start. More serious preshow.

Benjamin Button
08-31-2019, 09:28 PM
Does anyone else get a Scott Steiner and his hoochies vibe from Evil Uno and his creepers?

SirSam
09-01-2019, 06:05 PM
Pretty good card in the end. Didn't hit the transcendent heights of All In or Double Or Nothing. I enjoyed just about all the matches but it ended up being quite long and I felt myself drifting a little before thee end.

For me Cody is the best wrestler in the world right now. No one gets the emotional engagement like him, some do better moves, some have more athletic matches but no one connects like him. The match with Spears was epic and I was surprised Cody won but am hardly going to let it ruin my night.

Is it just me or has Kenny lost a step? Maybe it was just the fact they hasn't wrestled before but I detected some pauses and hesitancy that weren't there a year ago in his match with PAC. Regardless, with that loss he has an interesting story ahead of him, can he be the number one guy that he promised he would be?

Last reflection is I was sad to see Kylie Rae has been released. Details are foggy at best but seems like it was some sort of medical retirement which really sucks for her. She shon very brightly at DON so it's sad to see her miss out on that future.

mizfan
09-01-2019, 06:56 PM
Really enjoyed the show! It was a bit long but I guess that's wrestling in 2019. I can see why some felt it was less emotional than the last two big shows but to me in some ways it was more satisfying. I felt like I saw more potential story threads setting up for TV.

Agreed on Cody being the best! Arn running in was a beautiful moment. I still don't know if I think much of Spears on his own but as part of the whole package that match really delivered. Hope they pick up the Cody/Jericho story thread on TV, I see a lot of rich potential between those two.

Cult Icon
09-02-2019, 02:49 PM
I thought it was very good, if just a notch below Double or Nothing. Losing the Moxley-Omega match really hurt in the end; the crowd was into Pac-Omega but it definitely wasn't the same reaction they would've had with the more hyped match. If Mox hadn't pulled out or Pac-Omega had more to it then I think that would've given the show the extra match for fans to really be invested in.

In the end though it was still a lot of fun. I missed the battle royal but I heard good things and overall the pre-show came across to me as a lot more complete than previously (with far less comedy). And the main show didn't have a single bad match, though I did think the match order did a huge disservice to the Best Friends/Dark Order match and the Shida/Riho match. The former was always going to have issues because Uno and Stu can't get over no matter what they do and I think by putting Omega-Pac so early (I'm still not sure why; I guess because it was a last minute bout?) and then the crazy three way after that made it far too difficult for the tag and the women's match to get heat. They should've done the tag after the hot opener, Shida-Riho third and then gone with Omega-Pac. Again though, it was a very good show and I think it sets up this Full Gear show to be even better, especially if they go with the one-two-three punch of Jericho-Cody, Moxley-Omega and Pac-Hangman as I anticipate they will.

mizfan
09-02-2019, 03:04 PM
I think the length of the show also tired out the crowd for certain matches. 5 total hours for a crowd is really just too long, even for a big show like this. I hope they can tone it down a bit after they start running TV and have more weekly time to showcase everyone.

Cult Icon
09-02-2019, 03:26 PM
I don't disagree that the show was a bit too long but that was a problem for the main event; Best Friends-Dark Order and Shida-Riho were the fourth and fifth matches on the main card. The crowd shouldn't be dead by that point, which tells me that those matches weren't over, and I think a big reason they weren't over was the placement. Again, both were going to have problems anyway because Riho-Shida was a cold match and the Dark Order just can't get over to save their lives, but I think you mitigate those issues if you move those matches to the second and third spot and move the three way and Omega-Pac to the fourth and fifth spots.

Benjamin Button
09-02-2019, 05:23 PM
I thought the show was great.. I have a high tolerance for sitting through long shows, though. No doubt, it would have benefited from shorter matches. I think Summer Slam showed more quality from that...but I felt some of the over the top stuff was toned down. Personally it was my favorite ppv show of the year that Ive seen.

Team Farrell
09-03-2019, 12:17 PM
So, yeah, I caught the show Sunday evening with a couple of friends who aren't AEW fans and haven't seen anything AEW since All In. One thing that I noticed was they really enjoyed that they recognized people from WWE even if they were doing something different. It wasn't all new.

My thoughts on the show were that it was alright. It wasn't a blow away show, but I'm not angry that I gave up four hours to watch it. I definitely feel the complaints that their shows are too long, I don't want to watch a four hour PPV on a regular basis but what choice does AEW really have? When WWE has set the standard that a pay per view event is a minimum four hours and theirs are $9.99, are you going to be asking people to pay $50 for a three hour show?

Now, that said, I'm hoping that bi-monthly standard PPVs are the maximum that they're going for, and maybe they can work in B/R Live shows in the off months that only run two or three hours.

Now, as for the show. The battle royal was a battle royal. I skipped the rest of it after that, just in case it made me angry like previous pre-shows.

I checked out of most of the six man so I'm glad it was only like 10 minutes. Marko Stunt should not be wrestling competitively with grown men. I get it, he gets a reaction and he has fans, I'm not going to deny that. But in ring as a wrestler isn't the right spot for him, especially in a company that's trying to go mainstream right off the bat. When he flossed at one point it literally looked like my friend's idiot 12 year old standing in the ring acting foolish.

Stunt as a manager, though. Oh man that is a good role for him. He's small enough, that someone bigger than him could get some real heat if they just brutalized him and he makes everyone look larger.

Pac vs Omega went too long. The match itself as alright, nothing to really write home about, but I could have done with five minutes less. I know they want the "Best Bout Machine" in longer matches, but they also have to be aware that this is a cold match in 10 days notice. That said, Pac is a wonderful heel and I like how he's adjusted his style just enough to be a little more ground based and brutal, while still showcasing his high flying ability where it counts.

The triple threat was pretty good for what it was. Not my cup of tea in terms of style, but it was really innovative. And it gave me a whole new respect for Jimmy Havoc who's a guy I've seen none of. The difference between he and so many death match guys is that he gets it's a work! The paper cut spot: worked. The staple gun into Janela's head: worked. His shit was relatively safe but looks so brutal.

Those barrel bumps were gross, though. Allin is going to die. However, a part of me kind of hopes that the barrels become AEW's "thing". They're made to break so easily that they'd be a great weapon to introduce.

Pull the plug on the Dark Order. I don't get them. Not at all. They couldn't be more opposite, they don't match up, they're an in-shape guy who I don't buy as "evil" in the least, and a fat dude with a silly name. They could be a fun comedy babyface team. This was the second longest 15 minutes of my life.

Followed quickly by the longest 15 minutes of my life. Oh my god was this Joshi match hard to get through. They didn't seem like they gave a shit. What they did looked alright, and their wrestling wasn't bad, but neither of them looked like there was any sense of urgency. Hopefully Nyla crushes Riho to make up for that loss and moves on.

Cody vs Spears was the second best match of the night. They went the perfect amount of time, though I wouldn't have complained if the whole thing with Arn and the aftermath with Tully had been a little quicker but there's only so fast those two are moving. Great match with an emotional connection. 76 stars in the Tokyo Dome.

The ladder match was fun. That's all I got. Well worked, innovative stuff, it's hard to complain about The Bucks and Lucha Bros in a ladder match. For two guys who people, myself included, wrote off for years as just flippy dudes, they're some of the best sellers in the business. They're the Rock & Roll for a new generation (which, is a match I'd like to see, by the way).

The main event was the match of the night. Just so damn good from start to finish. There was a moment, after Jericho was busted up, where Page started to get real brutal with him and I thought they were going for a double turn. But it was so good. They made Hangman look like a superstar main event guy in one night and it was just the flash knockout that cost him.

Overall, pretty good show. I just sort of wish there was something more. I respect that they want the title to mean something and they want it to be the biggest talking point of the night, but I was actually anticipating some angle to end the night. Either a hint at the direction they are going starting in October or some major angle to be that reason to tune in.

One thing I'd like to see on future shows is interview time. I think it would break up the monotony of match-match-match-match a little. I get they're going for more of that sports, wrestling-based feel almost like a UFC PPV, but even UFC will throw in a video game commercial or something to break it up. I don't need vignettes or musical numbers on the show, but someone getting a quick interview with Adam Page before his match or letting Tully cut a promo about what Spears is going to do to Cody tonight might help get these personalities over and break up the show a little. Cut the video package from the Bucks (I don't need to hear Matt talk about his testicles) and give that time to a promo between the three way and tag match.

Sorry this was a novel.

mizfan
09-03-2019, 01:22 PM
One thing I'd like to see on future shows is interview time.

Big agreement on this! One of my biggests asks from AEW.

Cult Icon
09-03-2019, 01:42 PM
They actually did interviews during the show but they were posted on social media instead of the show. There was an Arn Anderson promo in particular that I thought was really good that they posted on Twitter after the Cody match.

Benjamin Button
09-03-2019, 02:03 PM
Im iffy about promos because most ppl nowadays cant talk...Tully is a good choice, though. Arn on the ppv would have been good. Jericho would be good. MJF did get to cut one on the buy in....also, need a good interviewer. That doesnt get enough focus. I dont even want to see Marvez doing that.


Golden Boy was a decent replacement for Marvez. Thought the announce team turned it up a notch. Jr showed more passion. Enjoyed the "spine on the pine" call for Arn.

Also, good to see focus on refs.

Team Farrell
09-03-2019, 02:22 PM
They actually did interviews during the show but they were posted on social media instead of the show. There was an Arn Anderson promo in particular that I thought was really good that they posted on Twitter after the Cody match.

Seriously? That's silly as all hell. I get that maybe I'm in the minority of their intended fan base here, but I wasn't sitting there with Twitter open. I'm not going to be in a room full of friends sitting on my phone the whole time, nor do I really want to scroll back through spoilers when I'm watching after the fact trying to keep up with that.

Please put this stuff on the main show. Break things up just a little bit. I would have loved to see Arn's promo, but rarely am I watching one of these shows by myself, and it's just rude to sit on Twitter the whole time.

I just feel like the whole night, but that half four in the middle where it felt like two hours especially, would have been better served with an interview or a promo or something. Give me Kenny disappointed and on his way out of the building so I'm wondering where his head is at ahead of October 2. Give me Jericho blowing off Marvez because he doesn't have time for that shit. Or do my absolute favourite 90s WWF thing (which I'm so sad they don't do anymore) which is the interview promo at Gorilla just as they're about to step through the curtain.

They're trying to be different, and I completely respect that, but it's just one of those things where something to break up the monotony that doesn't require that I have three screens open to follow would be nice.

This is my concern with AEW as a whole. Outside all the indy shit that I despise, because that's a matter of taste, my big concern is that they're so focused on the "online hardcore fans" and producing content for "wrestling Twitter", that I'm going to need two ignore my girlfriend who's sitting in the same room also watching the show and have a minimum of two screens running just to get content that I want to see on the main show. Or that I'm going to have to be so immersed in what's going on on Twitter and the plethora of YouTube shows to understand why guy A and guy B are having a fight.

If they don't break up matches on PPV cards with promos or whatever, that's not going to stop me from being willing to watch. If I'm going to need two screens running, as well as being up to date on their Youtube shows and have done my own research on who some of these people are rather than having it all explained to me on the main show, then I'm going to tap out real quick.

I need something between Raw's incessant recaps (which they've gotten better at) and being told that I'd like an angle/character/match more if I'd do my own research on who they are/what they're fighting over/their past matches.

LK3185
09-03-2019, 02:37 PM
I mean I figure with the tv show they aren’t going to funnel people to social media to understand why a feud is happening. Social will be supplemented content similar to how WWE does it. As for things during the PPV, I think they do it this way to give everyone time.solution is to have less matches, more interview time. They have people for it in the back

Cult Icon
09-03-2019, 02:50 PM
I think when it comes to the PPV's the idea is to put full emphasis on the matches, the same way a New Japan does. Thus that's the focus and the interviews are secondary. I honestly don't have a problem with that; when I was watching the show not once did I think "boy they need an interview here." On top of that Double or Nothing and Fyter Fest were both great and didn't feature many interviews. The issues I had were that it was a long show and that the match order should've been different. If AEW had taken five minutes off Shida-Riho and the Best Friends-Dark Order match while also putting them second and third (and thus moving Pac-Omega and the three way up), then followed it up by shortening the ladder match (I thought it was stupendous and one of the best matches of the year, but it could've been eighteen minutes instead of twenty two and still been just as good) and the main event then I think you find the happy medium. The point is I don't think you need interviews for PPV's. TV yes but for PPV's as long as you lay the show out and time it right then you're good. For this show they didn't nail that down and that's why I think it wound up being lesser than Double or Nothing.

Team Farrell
09-03-2019, 04:25 PM
Maybe it's because I rarely watch a New Japan show in one sitting, but I don't notice the fact that it's just a barrage of matches nearly as much as I did on this show. Or maybe it's the fact that there's often moments of resetting down time where nothing is going on at all between matches, so I have that moment to go grab a drink.

There were moments where I almost felt like I did watching WrestleMania, where I was starting to look at the clock and wonder when it was going to be done. You cut that tag and the Joshi match entirely, and I think this is a much better show. Throw them on the pre-show or night one of the show on TNT (or have Riho get the unexpected win in the Battle Royal while Nyla finally gets a singles win on the main show in eight minutes) and I think the whole thing is better.

Have there been brackets announced for the tag team tournament yet? Are Best Friends going back into the opening round, or was that match, for all intents and purposes, the first round?

Cult Icon
09-03-2019, 04:45 PM
They've announced one match; the Young Bucks vs. Private Party, which will be in Boston on October 9th. Beyond that the only details is that the first two rounds will be October 9th and October 16th (in Philly), the semi-finals will be in Pittsburgh on October 23rd and the finals will be October 30th in West Virginia. That tells me we'll be looking at about seven teams for this; The Dark Order (who gets the bye), Bucks, Private Party, Best Friends, LAX, Angelico and Jack Evans and The Lucha Brothers, unless AEW is going to have teams work multiple matches on either the semi-final or finals show. I suppose that is possible as SCU and A Boy and His Dinosaur would make sense to be in this tournament as well.

Team Farrell
09-03-2019, 05:18 PM
My first thought was that this is a seven team tournament and they were using that match as a way to not need to include an eighth team.

If it were up to me, I'd pull out LAX and Angelico/Evans to add SCU and Jungle Boy/Luchasaurus.

Angelico/Evans feel like an enhancement team that you know is going to give you some excitement, and LAX should go after either the Bucks or Lucha Bros in during the tournament to knock them out and set that program off. Maybe LAX goes after The Bucks and the tournament comes down to Lucha Bros and Private Party?

Cult Icon
09-03-2019, 05:35 PM
Poor choice of words Coach. Anyone who suggests less Angelico and Jack Evans is then hunted down, never to be seen again.

PEN15v2
09-03-2019, 06:43 PM
Even AEW needs enhancement teams, and with that many established duos, any and all of them feel like they don't deserve to be enhancement. But someone has to.

Cult Icon
09-03-2019, 06:53 PM
That's it; any more Evans and Angelico slander and I will steal the thing you love the most, much like I stole the AEW Championship from Jericho!

T.O.
09-03-2019, 07:42 PM
You don't have the balls to steal anything from anyone.

I, on the other hand...

Cult Icon
09-03-2019, 08:05 PM
Oh yeah? Where's your set of all the Gilmore Girls seasons then?!

T.O.
09-03-2019, 09:07 PM
On my bookshelf.

Cult Icon
09-03-2019, 09:20 PM
That's what I want you to think!

PEN15v2
09-03-2019, 10:00 PM
Cult, are you saying that TO has more balls than you? Literally or figuratively?

Cult Icon
09-03-2019, 10:10 PM
I am saying that I have T.O.'s Gilmore Girls DVDs and will not return them until the besmirching of Angelico and the man, the myth, the legend Jack Evans FROM THE HEAVENS, comes to an end.

Oliver
09-04-2019, 08:25 AM
Give the man his DVDs, Cult! Those girls of the Gilmore household are just so witty and quick speaking.

(I've just started season 3 on a rewatch. Jess is such a dreamboat.)

Cult Icon
09-04-2019, 09:14 AM
Has the besmirching of Jack Evans FROM THE HEAVENS and the man who lept off Dario Cueto's roof stopped? Until it does, the DVD's stay with me, along with the AEW World Championship, the D.B. Cooper money and the Ark of the Covenant. Don't worry; they're all guarded closely by top men.

T.O.
09-04-2019, 09:31 AM
Give the man his DVDs, Cult! Those girls of the Gilmore household are just so witty and quick speaking.

(I've just started season 3 on a rewatch. Jess is such a dreamboat.)

The man?

Even if I have the surgery, I'll still have more balls than you, Iken.

Oliver
09-05-2019, 05:56 AM
Ack shit, sorry about the pronoun mistake T.O..

I hope we get Iken vs T.O. at the next AEW show.

PEN15v2
09-05-2019, 10:31 AM
That would give me a reason to watch. I'm still waiting for one.

Cult Icon
09-05-2019, 11:02 AM
No it won't because I'll do flips.

PEN15v2
09-05-2019, 11:06 AM
Nevermind...

T.O.
09-05-2019, 02:25 PM
I'm planning on a standard GNP offense. Rest holds, arm drags, leg drops.

Cult Icon
09-05-2019, 02:55 PM
That ain't slow enough for Pen. We need to have at least a ten minute stare down that leads into a headlock, a few arm drags, a hip toss and then the rest holds in order to get him.

T.O.
09-05-2019, 03:04 PM
Maybe we can cut promos weighing the merits of maritime port shipping regulations?

Oliver
09-09-2019, 05:07 AM
I've now misread that twice as 'marijuana port shipping regulations'.

T.O.
09-09-2019, 10:19 AM
Whatever sells tickets, jack.