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Prime Time
11-22-2019, 09:17 AM
Didn't get a lot of traction last time but I've seen some people are giving it another look again, since the takeover. So here's a thread for the Hard to Kill PPV on January 12 in Dallas, that'll be headlined by Sami Callihan vs Tessa Blanchard.

The other match I've heard about so far is RVD vs Brian Cage.

PEN15v2
11-22-2019, 12:53 PM
I have gone in and out with my interest in Impact, but I just can't buy into Tessa in the main event vs any Impact main event guy. I don't think she's that interesting as a female competitor, and have even less interest in trying to watch her attempt to be credible VS the top men in the division. I get why Impact is going for it, and likely the numbers will work out in their favor short term. But over time, it'll be disastrous, in my opinion.

mizfan
11-22-2019, 03:40 PM
I've seen Tessa wrestle Brian Cage and Scorpio Sky in other places and enjoyed it a lot. Time will tell if it'll be accepted on a larger stage, but I hope it is.

And yes Pete, I'm basing that on what I enjoy instead of trying to analyze if it's best for the business. ;)

The only other thing I'll say is that this has got to be the most apropos name for a show ever.

Prime Time
11-22-2019, 03:49 PM
To be honest I'm not even sure Impact are even trying to pitch at getting a general audience anymore anyway, so I'm not sure how relevant thinking of them in that way is.

I'm not a fan of the idea on the whole, as you know, but if you're going to do with anyone Tessa strikes me as one of the better options, I guess.

Cult Icon
11-22-2019, 04:56 PM
I haven't followed Impact religiously this year but the thing that has gotten me to watch the big shows has been Tessa's chase and this show will have me 100% watching live. One of the things I loved about Lucha Underground was that the women had just as great a chance as the guys to become a World Champion; I wish they had picked someone other than Sexy Star to ultimately win it but the fact that someone like Ivelisse (who should've won the belt in my opinion) had a chance to at least fight for it instead of being told "you're a woman, stay in your lane" was super cool to me. So I'm all in on this and frankly I think it's a wise decision for Impact to try regardless of whether you agree with the decision or not. They have tried everything else at this point; ex WWE guys, ex LU guys, luchadores, small wrestlers, hoss wrestlers; you name it, they've tried it and at this point it's not making a difference. I don't see any fault in trying it with an incredibly talented/charismatic performer who Impact also wants to re-sign next year when she'll have strong interest from both AEW and WWE. If it doesn't work you just take it off her. Simple as that, though I'm sure someone will explain momentarily why it isn't.

Prime Time
11-22-2019, 05:04 PM
No, in the position they are currently in... it probably is as simple as that, actually. It's not going to make a huge difference but as you say, based on where they are and what they've already tried, what else do they have to lose?

It probably doesn't do you any favours getting the people who want to take it seriously, but that doesn't seem to be remotely what they are going for, and in terms of effect of the wider industry... I sort of feel like the horse has probably bolted on that one, anyway.

PEN15v2
11-22-2019, 06:00 PM
If any promotion can afford the risk, it's likely Impact. I doubt they'll lose a significant amount of their audience. The people who have toughed it out have dealt with worse. But this won't help them grow at all. For every white knight who tunes in to the show that gets the attention from left wing media about promoting equality, you'll lose someone who sees it as a marketing ploy and an unbelievable one.

Long term, the issues are plentiful. Maybe Impact doesn't care due to their lower exposure, but that still seems silly to me.

Let's say Tessa wins the title. Then what? To be as fair as possible, Sami Callihan is the best option to drop the title to here. He didn't win the title through athleticism or skill, so the door is still open for someone to out-skill him for the win. He's not a physical specimen, he's not a tremendous athlete. He's a highly charismatic character who talk himself out of any loss, and can brawl out a win vs the true heavyweights Brian Cage, Michael Elgin, Moose, RVD... etc.

But once she's champion, how the fuck are they going to make it logical/credible that she beats those guys? Sure, she might go over Rich Swann, who is getting a current main event type push. But eventually the true main event top tier guys have to get their shot.

It's just like Kofi's title run on Smackdown. Sure, he can be credible vs Dolph, Samoa Joe, Kevin Owens, even Randy Orton... but once Brock was face to face with him, the champ was the underdog. And a month or so ago we talked about Rey's reign, and I discussed how no matter how bad his run was, it was doomed to fail due to the exact same limitations. Sure, a fluke win for these underdogs can work. But extending it is where you run into difficulty.

mizfan
11-25-2019, 12:42 PM
Pete hates when I say it, but from my perspective wrestling hasn't been believable pretty much since it's inception. Even Lou Thesz and Harley Race bumped around in ways I didn't think looked remotely realistic. I get, of course, that there's a difference, but I believe it's just a question of where you decide to draw the line.

Anyway, like I said I've already seen Tessa have engaging and crowd pleasing matches with Brian Cage on other stages, so at least for the kind of fan they're aiming for I don't see a problem in the short or long term.

I actually have a harder time finding Sami Callihan threatening than I do Tessa. :)

Prime Time
11-25-2019, 01:01 PM
Gotta take the word 'decide' out of there. It's not really like the line is a choice, because if it was everyone would just choose to like everything.

That's why it comes back to that old thing, you can reason it as much as you like, but if that's not how most people see it, the arguments become somewhat irrelevant, no? Much like how scepticism about the nature of the world a la The Matrix ultimately don't mean a lot?

Though as I say, I'm not sure Impact are even trying for that the kind of crowd that makes those kind of questions relevant anymore.

PEN15v2
11-25-2019, 01:36 PM
Pete hates when I say it, but from my perspective wrestling hasn't been believable pretty much since it's inception. Even Lou Thesz and Harley Race bumped around in ways I didn't think looked remotely realistic. I get, of course, that there's a difference, but I believe it's just a question of where you decide to draw the line.

Anyway, like I said I've already seen Tessa have engaging and crowd pleasing matches with Brian Cage on other stages, so at least for the kind of fan they're aiming for I don't see a problem in the short or long term.

There are small independent movies or bands that please their fans, but would bomb against whatever generic Marvel movie #324 of the summer is on, or sell as many tickets as the Rolling Stones. Obviously, if this is what audience Impact is going for, then great. But just because it pleases a small group does not mean it'll work for a larger group. Niche audiences are niche for a reason.

Team Farrell
11-25-2019, 01:55 PM
I think Impact have accepted what and where they are. They're not even in the race for number one or two anymore. They're not in the race for three. They're a moderately successful indy owned by a TV company which makes them able to offer contracts and attract bigger indy names as well as ex-WWE names.

They're not going to sell out MSG, and they're not going to try.

They have Scott D'Amore running things, an indy promoter who's been successful for like two decades at that. Unlike when Dixie was running the show, they aren't trying to take swings at WWE, they're trying to make what they're doing as successful as possible and grow that organically.

It might mean that they're going to top out at drawing 1,500-2,000 fans on their absolute largest shows forever. But that's sustainable and respectable.

But even if they were hemorrhaging money, if they're creating eyeball-drawing content for Anthem cheaper than rights or syndication fees would cost for those same timeslots, they're all good.

I'm out on the company for now, because I don't like intergender shit for the exact argument Pen laid out above. I'm sure there's a lot of people like me. But if there's enough people to keep them sustainable, they'll be fine. If not, they'll pivot and people will come back on board or new fans will discover them. They're not going to be number one, they're not trying to be, they're just trying to successfully be Impact.

The IWC is cancerous when they start speaking in terms of Impact being a damaged brand or whatever. The only reason that's true is the people that call it that won't tune in to watch what they like when Impact offers what they like, and turn it off when they don't.

PEN15v2
11-25-2019, 02:38 PM
The tough part for me is that there is a lot of good in Impact that I like. But when the main angle is so preposterous, it's sometimes tough to sit through.

I really wish it was another female. I've discussed this with Cult separately, and I think I'd enjoy it more with Taya. Or if it was a Beth Phoenix type. If WWE/AEW pool was available, I might buy Shayna. But no matter how PC the world gets, and how white knight the internet wrestling fans seems to be, women don't compete with men in any sport on the same level, nevermind concentrating on combat sports.

Tessa in the women's division does nothing for me. Putting her in the men's and trying to convince me she is World champ material is even worse.

mizfan
11-25-2019, 03:35 PM
I'm don't doubt there could be some "white knight" fans who support the idea of intergender on principle but don't actually bother to watch or enjoy, but I'd like to think the majority of fans who support this stuff do so simply because they like it. Pen mentioned the Marvel movies, which constantly features men and women in combat on equal terms depending on context. I'm well aware not all fans think about wrestling in the same terms, but some do.


Gotta take the word 'decide' out of there. It's not really like the line is a choice, because if it was everyone would just choose to like everything.

Very good point! It's definitely more down to a gut feeling rather than a conscious choice if it works or not.

PEN15v2
11-25-2019, 04:08 PM
C'mon Mizfan, super powers change everything. Comparing to comic books is completely ridiculous. I know fans do, and it makes sense in a created universe like Lucha Underground. But Impact is not Lucha Underground. Even though it pushes supernatural stuff with Rosemary and Su Yung/Suzie, or the Broken Universe, the main event scene has not incorporated that. It's been reality based.

Now, if Impact is looking to push more LU type factors into their show, then it'll be a different story, for me anyways. But so far, it's crossed my line.

Prime Time
11-25-2019, 04:15 PM
I think they're heading in that direction, going after those fans who won't care about that stuff, so I don't think the Marvel thing is as ridiculous as all that (even if I'd never, ever want to watch anything wrestling related on those lines). I think they've done enough crazy stuff on those lines that it's pretty clear that's the way they are leaning.

mizfan
11-25-2019, 04:42 PM
Hey, Black Widow beats up guys and she doesn't have super powers!!

(I would make a comment here to lampshade my intense nerdiness, but what would be the point? ;) )

Definitely think Impact has tread closer to LU/outlandish territory in the last couple years. Whether that's a good thing or not, obviously mileage will vary!

Prime Time
01-11-2020, 06:26 PM
Well. A day out from this and Tessa has now been trending for about six hours straight. Oh to be a fly on the wall at Impact HQ right now.

PEN15v2
01-12-2020, 04:48 PM
The only match I really cared about seems to be canceled or altered. Swann might not be cleared (Page is not sure to be off the toilet yet), so the tag title match seems to be at risk. Ah well.

Prime Time
01-13-2020, 07:37 AM
Well. A day out from this and Tessa has now been trending for about six hours straight. Oh to be a fly on the wall at Impact HQ right now.

....... and they went and put the title on her anyway. Be interesting to see how that plays out. Impact might be low enough on the radar that this just gets them attention, rather than turns into a shitstorm.

PEN15v2
01-13-2020, 12:15 PM
It'll be fine. Impact isn't a big enough deal and it's an unproven allegation. The positive buzz for the SJW BS equality garbage will outweigh it.

Impact will likely suffer from terrible main event booking in the meantime though, because now they are stuck booking Tessa as someone who is credible vs Brian Cage, Michael Elgin, Willie Mack...etc. Much like Rey had bad booking in 2006, Tessa will either ruin all credibility with strong booking, or get by on flukes.

Team Farrell
01-13-2020, 02:43 PM
Yeah, it's not going to mean anything. Wrestling Twitter cared, and nobody else did. There will be a section that'll continue to try and make noise any time she has any level of success, but that's it. To think, this all started from a positive tweet by Tessa. And people wonder why I hate Twitter sometimes.

I actually watched this show. My girlfriend loves Tessa and intergender wrestling. I though that the show overall was okay. Austin vs Trey was contrived as hell and I disliked most of it. I found that they were trying pretty stuff (in a grudge match), but their ring positioning was such that there were a lot of little stutter steps or slowing down at the last second. Several points where one was obviously standing there waiting for the other, and Trey does this really pointless backflip into a double stomp that didn't look good either time he attempted it.

I love RVD's new thing. I still don't know what to make of it, but it entertained me. Nice burial of Cage on the way out.

I didn't know you were allowed to say fuck in Impact, go figure.

I think calling Moose's spear "No Jackhammer Needed" is shindy as fuck and only calls attention to the fact that there's a guy who's infinitely more over than Moose using the same finish.

Sami Calihan might be the worst main event wrestling I've ever seen. That match had waaaaay too much and Tessa should have just won with the last Magnum she hit off the top before the destroyers and whatnot (if I never see another destroyer again, it'll be too soon). They were trying to have an "epic" match with a guy incapable of doing so. Why is it that a deathmatch wrestler that I know has been through shit comes off as the least tough and credible guy on the roster? Callis made the call that he has "almost 100 lbs" on Tessa and I burst out laughing. Then I saw that his shirt had a patch on it that said "The Draw" in a company that literally drew 40 people a few months ago to a show and I laughed again. He sucks so hard. Glad the belt's on Tessa, it'll get them some attention probably, and she can drop it to someone.

Is RVD the next challenger? He murdered two dudes last night.

King Kong Sundae
01-15-2020, 10:30 PM
I didn't even hear about it until I logged in here

mizfan
01-16-2020, 04:02 PM
I heard that the very risque segment with RVD and his girlfriend got them banned from Twitch. I caught a clip of it and I can see why!

Oliver
01-17-2020, 05:29 AM
Yeah, I read about that this morning. I assume the ban will be temporary, and to be honest knowing the bulk of wrestling fans I wouldn't be surprised if this gets more people tuning in than Tessa winning the title!

mizfan
01-17-2020, 05:29 PM
At some point it's less wrestling fans and more just human nature, I suppose!