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Prime Time
05-10-2018, 03:36 AM
Rather than having one huge comic book thread this time around, I figure a specific thread for the myriad of Marvel films and TV would be a good idea.

So... What did you make of Infinity War? How many of the Netflix shows have you seen? And what's next after Infinity War concludes?

mizfan
05-10-2018, 11:35 AM
As far as recent films go, I loved Black Panther, though it was the best Marvel film in a while. Infinity War was really fun, it didn't get me emotionally like it seemingly did some people but I had a blast watching it.

Looking back, I love the first Iron Man for changing the game, and the first two Avengers movies really did it for me too, yes even the second one (possibly because I'm a huge James Spader fan and think his performance was very underrated). Spiderman: Homecoming was also great, as was the first Guardians of the Galaxy.

Honestly I love most of the films, even though I think some of them have become a little too "open mic night" with the comedy stuff (looking at you, Thor: Ragnarok). I know people who are burnt out on Marvel films who say they all come off the same, but I don't feel that way at all. I almost always have a great time watching and I expect that'll continue for some time. Very interested to see what they do after the Infinity War sequel, I really hope they don't reset the universe as long running continuity is one of the best things they have going.

Never got into the TV shows so far, tried a few episodes of Daredevil but it didn't grab me. Also watched the Agents of SHIELD pilot with similar results. I could probably get into them if I wanted to but my TV plate is already pretty full. I do want to try Jessica Jones at some point though.

Samuel 'Plan
05-10-2018, 01:54 PM
Is it not worth putting a spoiler tag in the title if Infinity War is up for discussion?

Until then, I'll simply say I loved IW, both times. I still need to take my younger sister to see it and am still very excited for a third viewing. It was such a unique piece of storytelling and has totally resparked my interest and appreciation for the MCU project since Ultron killed it.

I'm even tempted to give Ragnarok a second go! I think I need it for my Machete Order to work best actually.

Cap 1, Iron Man 2, Guardians 1, Avengers, Cap 2, Ultron, Cap 3, Black Panther, Spidey Homecoming, (perhaps Ragnarok here) and finally Infinity War! It worked great when I test ran it ahead of seeing IW for the first time.

mizfan
05-10-2018, 02:00 PM
I honestly can't imagine re-watching so many movies, I can absolutely see the appeal of it but I don't think I'd have the patience. I'm sad the first Iron Man doesn't show up on your list though, doesn't that do a lot of vital work establishing the character of Tony Stark, who is arguably the protagonist of the entire arc?

Samuel 'Plan
05-10-2018, 02:32 PM
It does, but nothing that isn't heavily implied in Iron Man 2 again, which coincidentally starts with a really effective scene of news clips about Stark revealing himself as and beginning life as Iron Man, when Vanko is saying goodbye to his dying father. It works great as an intro to Stark and totally took me by surprise!

The other great thing is that it pings off Cap really well - a lot of Iron Man 2 is about the return of the Stark Expo, which is nifty after seeing it introduced in Cap 1 under Howard!

mizfan
05-10-2018, 02:33 PM
Nice, didn't even think of that! Any other cool connections that come out of that order?

Samuel 'Plan
05-10-2018, 04:00 PM
I'm pretty sure there were a few that jumped out but it was around a month ago now so I can't really remember.

There were some cool effects to come from it though. I cut the Thor films out, so he becomes more like the Hulk later in the franchise, in that he's only ever around in the team up stuff. Some might struggle with that, but I really like the sense of mystery it creates for the Asgardians, who are, after all, essentially like gods - their introduction then happens in Avengers, and the first time anyone ever references Thor overtly is Loki on the helicarrier, where he tells Cap he's "not overly fond of what happens next" when the thunder starts; then Thor lands on the jet and kicks Iron Man's ass. It's a proper cool introduction! You get some sense of their story through lines thrown out by Thor and Loki throughout, but their sense of mystery is always there. That goes up a notch in Ultron too, with the weird mystic jaunt Thor goes on to the dope pool. I'm not sure what introducing Ragnarok will do to that, but I'm prepared to at least try it once.

Watching Cap 1 and Iron Man 2 directly after one another gives you a very strong sense of their contrast as characters and why they inevitably clash then, and it's a much shorter turn around between those clashes with fewer films between the team ups, so the tension by the time you get to Civil War is all the more pertinent I found.

I also really love seeing Guardians third as the proper introduction to the Infinity Stones, and the fact you see a glimpse of the Tesseract with nobody recognising it in the film creates a really cool moment of dramatic irony for the audience.

There's just lots of really cool small details that made it a lot more enjoyable for me! I can't wait to Panther, Spidey and Infinity War on disc so I can try the whole thing over the course of a week or two.

Prime Time
05-11-2018, 06:16 AM
I liked Infinity War. Funny thing though, although there were probably fewer jokes in this than in some of the others I felt there were more out of place jokes here than in any of the ones I've seen recently. I also came out thinking that though it was fun there were about a hundred things wrong with the plot, but I'm told that the vast majority of those disappear if you've seen a lot of the Marvel films that I haven't.

But yeah, if you're interested in the take of the people I know who teach film, there's another consensus and it's a third home run in a row. I don't personally know anyone who works in the field who didn't absolutely love Ragnorak, Black Panther, and now Infinity War. Considering the strong performance with the casual fans of all three movies there's a strong case to be made for their quality, I'd say.

sheepster
05-16-2018, 11:20 AM
I also came out thinking that though it was fun there were about a hundred things wrong with the plot, but I'm told that the vast majority of those disappear if you've seen a lot of the Marvel films that I haven't.

Care to elaborate on any of them? Perhaps we can help!

Samuel 'Plan
05-16-2018, 12:39 PM
The issues for me were so pedantic I let them go. But as we're not the subject...

Why didn't Dr Strange portal Thanos's Infinity hand off like Wong did the henchman early on? And sent it to like, an alternate dimension or something?

Or why didn't they just stab Thanos in the neck like Lokiand Gamorra tried to when Mantis had Thanos asleep, instead of wrestling the gauntlet off of his apparently snugly fitting hand?

Dumb asses....

mizfan
05-16-2018, 01:04 PM
I actually had the same thought when they were trying to take the gauntlet off. Just cut the damn arm off, you've got magic and lasers and all this stuff! Or for god's sake Quill, just shoot Thanos in the face instead of bloody pistol whipping him!!

JacobWrestledGod
05-16-2018, 10:19 PM
The quality of Infinity War lies not in its plot only, its technical brilliance in CGI and live action as well as its balancing job to feature so many characters in a single coherent plot is incredible tight knit and balanced. It's not even a movie, rather a season finale of a series of big budget films - more than 10 films, spanning across different universes and cultures and tones, and then giving casual fans enough plot in one film to enjoy it while giving long time fans like us the ultimate heart-wrenching tragedy. There's no other movie that managed to hold that type of expectation because there was never a cinematic universal with that many movies and that big of a scope. To even meet that expectation, furthermore exceed it is just mind-blowing.

For comparison, while colourful, Black Panter's CGI was very patchy at times, and IMO Infinity Wars was much better without a single scene which baffles me as a CGI green screen.

What IA felt like was Lord of the Rings gone terrible wrong for Middle Earth. So many subplots merging together (Wakanda, Titan, Thor's new weapon) in a satisfying final battle, and the final scenes of the heroes stalling time so that Scarlet Witch could kill Vision, only for Vision to be revived to DIE AGAIN was incredibly understated and real. None of those CGI madness we were used to, just one hero after another trying their best to stall time, with Captain America baffling Thanos (tiny man actually able to hold off my gauntlet). That one scene was so well shot, has so much weight. The editing on Infinity War and the sound design are so intricate and builds tension very very well. What about the finger snap being so simple yet so weighty as the beloved heroes melted off one by one?

Compare this with any of the DC assembled films, for instance. Suicide Squads' editing was so haphazard that they actually destroyed the whole Joker introduction, introduced characters without a single feeling of connection. The Suicide Squad's cast was amazing, but every single effort poured down the drain with that terrible plot, direction, visuals and most importantly the EDITING. Or how about Justice League, which is a just a mess and waste of time. Overall Infinity War has convinced me, a harsh critic of a number of marvel films and also suffering from comic book movie fatigue, to get right back into the world of MCU. 10/10 one of the best movies I personally have witnessed.

mizfan
05-17-2018, 11:32 AM
I do like the idea of IW as a season finale of sorts. I think there's a big future in this kind of "cinematic television", if you will.

I also agree that Suicide Squad was edited and presented terribly. :)

Subho
05-17-2018, 12:24 PM
I actually had the same thought when they were trying to take the gauntlet off. Just cut the damn arm off, you've got magic and lasers and all this stuff! Or for god's sake Quill, just shoot Thanos in the face instead of bloody pistol whipping him!!

It has all to do with the one future possibility (out of 14,000,005) that Strange saw which leads to the heroes winning. If you notice in that scene, Strange is the only one who isn't trying to withhold Quill from attacking Thanos. He has seen it all play out, and just let the events happen as they do.

I do hope that all of this build up has a satisfying payoff, though. I don't want any one who got killed before the snap to return (Loki, Heimdall, Gamora, Vision). That'd demean all the emotional weight of this movie.

mizfan
05-17-2018, 12:33 PM
I wouldn't mind getting Gamora back somehow, that shit was too sad. As long as they present it well. Maybe bring her back in GOTG 3, Search for Spock style? Comics are all about resurrections, after all, and I feel like GOTG movies would be a bummer with that death hanging over them.

comfortablynumb
05-18-2018, 01:02 AM
I heard some theory that Gamora is trapped in the soul stone and will come back in the next movie. The scene with Thanos and young Gamora at the end was inside the stone, so sayeth the people who buy this theory.

Powder
05-18-2018, 07:40 AM
I heard some theory that Gamora is trapped in the soul stone and will come back in the next movie. The scene with Thanos and young Gamora at the end was inside the stone, so sayeth the people who buy this theory.

It was confirmed by the Russos that the scene with Thanos and Gamora was inside the soul stone. And it is all but certain that Gamora will make a return in IW Part II. It has also been reported that she has a major part in GOTG3.

Since the reboot of the forums, I think I said this on the old forum: But those who were killed prior to the use of the Gauntlet i.e. Loki and Heimdall will remain dead. After all both of their stories have been told. Loki has been the main villain in Thor and Avengers, and played huge parts in Thor 2 and 3. Heimdall's story also has been concluded. he was never a major character, but an important one to Thor, but now with Thor being able to create his own Bifrost with the new Axe, Heimdall is not needed.

But anyone else who was killed with Thanos' snap will be restored, including Gamora.

Prime Time
05-20-2018, 07:47 AM
Much like the Solo thread, this is for Deadpool 2 if people want to talk about it before others have seen it. Then it'll get merged with the main MCU thread.

I didn't much like the first one (loved the concept but found it quickly became tiresome), but the trailer for the second has got me curious as to whether I should go and see it. Anyone checked it out yet?

Samuel 'Plan
05-20-2018, 11:34 AM
If Gamora does come back I'll feel horribly cheated. Her death - which also came before the click, of course - was the most impactful of the entire film. To watch that back knowing that, ultimately, some funky Infinity Stone logic got the writers out of sticking to what was possibly the second bravest decision of the entire film, especially when it's almost guaranteed they're writing themselves out of the ballsiest, would irritate the hell out of me, I won't lie.

I can take everybody coming back from Thanos' click because it's sort of expected. But bringing back Gamora alongside that would leave me feeling like the only actual deaths in Infinity War, which was meant to be the big game changer, were token offerings at the very beginning. That would be a shame, because as it stands IW has seriously gotten me back onside with the MCU after about four years of being increasingly rubbed the wrong way by it.

Subho
05-20-2018, 11:41 AM
Saw this opening night, and I thought it was really good, and overall better than the first one. The story itself was considerably stronger, and the action sequences just balls out fun. It had some genuine heart. Some of the characters were a bit poorly handled (Vanessa, Negasonic, etc.), but Domino and Cable were really cool.

And man, the mid-credits scenes were the best ever! Worth the price of admission alone!

Gooner
05-20-2018, 03:25 PM
I'd echo the sentiments above, really funny film. Some really cool cameos which I won't ruin, and yeah Domino and Cable were really good additions.

I probably prefer the first one, albeit only by a small margin. And yeah, the mid-credits scenes are bloody amazing.

meandi
05-20-2018, 06:08 PM
Just got back from seeing it, and... I'm torn on whether I prefer this or the first one. Like Subho said, the story was stronger and over-all better than the origins story we got in part 1, however... part 1 is the comic movie we never should've seen to begin with. With the original, you didn't know just how violent and vulgar it would end up being, so with the new one, you're almost anticipating it turned up even more, which is where it falls flat. If anything, it's a tad tamer than the first, but I'm honestly okay with that, though.

And Gooner, there's a spoiler label, so I'm going to feel free to mention the cameos... that scene where Deadpool is walking through the mansion with Colossus and brings up the joke from the first movie about how there's never anybody there, and they show cut to the room with the Cyclops, Prof X, Quicksilver and Beast closing the door was excellent.

Powder
05-21-2018, 07:37 AM
Also don;t know if any of you noticed, but the 2 redneck in the truck...the fat one was Matt Damon and the other was Alan Tudyk, and the Vanisher is Brad Pitt.

meandi
05-21-2018, 11:32 AM
I didnít mention the rednecks because itís pretty difficult to tell itís them. And the Brad Pitt part was so cool and unexpected, I figured Iíd leave that out and let it surprise people.

mizfan
05-21-2018, 12:18 PM
If Gamora does come back I'll feel horribly cheated. Her death - which also came before the click, of course - was the most impactful of the entire film. To watch that back knowing that, ultimately, some funky Infinity Stone logic got the writers out of sticking to what was possibly the second bravest decision of the entire film, especially when it's almost guaranteed they're writing themselves out of the ballsiest, would irritate the hell out of me, I won't lie.

I can take everybody coming back from Thanos' click because it's sort of expected. But bringing back Gamora alongside that would leave me feeling like the only actual deaths in Infinity War, which was meant to be the big game changer, were token offerings at the very beginning. That would be a shame, because as it stands IW has seriously gotten me back onside with the MCU after about four years of being increasingly rubbed the wrong way by it.

Welcome to the world of comic books! :)

mizfan
05-21-2018, 12:50 PM
Haha, that's great, I didn't realize any of that!

Thought this was very fun and funny. If you didn't like the first one you'll probably find this one to be about the same, but I loved both. Can't say if it's better than the first or not but definitely right around the same level of quality, which is exactly what I wanted.

meandi
05-21-2018, 04:06 PM
So which was the better mid-credit scene? Deadpool killing ďDeadpoolĒ or killing Ryan Reynolds when heís excited about the Green Lantern script?

mizfan
05-21-2018, 04:39 PM
Haha, that whole sequence was brilliant. I think personally I preferred Deadpool killing Deadpool, because that royally pissed me off at the time (along with everyone else).

Gooner
05-21-2018, 05:02 PM
Same, plus the fact he shot him multiple times.... just to be sure.

meandi
05-21-2018, 05:46 PM
ďJust fixing the timeline...Ē

Prime Time
05-27-2018, 04:37 PM
I did find I got more out of this one, incidentally. Whether that's because I watched the first at home and this in the cinema, or it's just better, obviously that'd be very hard for me to say. But I not only made it through this one (beating the first by that measure alone) I actively enjoyed some of it.

mizfan
05-28-2018, 01:15 PM
Even Pete's on board! He enjoyed (some of) something meta and fourth wall winking! It's a miracle! ;)

Prime Time
05-31-2018, 12:39 PM
Hey I usually like that fine. It's just in wrestling I have nothing but contempt for it.

mizfan
05-31-2018, 12:55 PM
Come over to the wrestling-as-comics crowd Pete! It's fun! :)

Prime Time
05-31-2018, 12:56 PM
Can't. I've had to work hard to get to this point of only quietly seething about it!

I actually considered this stage personal growth.

XanMan
07-05-2018, 08:36 AM
I watched X-Men: Apocalypse for the second time last night. I still think it's a great movie; doesn't fall in with the comics idea of Apocalypse, of course, but if you take the story for what it is, I really enjoyed it and I think the kids they chose for the roles of the young X-Men were fantastic; much better than the original actors. I would just like to see them get rid of Xavier and Magneto for future movies. They aren't needed and it would be great to see an X-Men movie that truly focused on the X-Men rather than their mentor and his greatest frenemy. I didn't put this in the MCU thread, because it's separate.

Prime Time
07-05-2018, 09:30 AM
Appreciate the thinking there but it was conceived of as a thread for Marvel generally and that was just a fancy title. Now changed to reflect that, and I've moved it here because I think it's the better place for it all things considered.

meandi
07-05-2018, 12:22 PM
I watched X-Men: Apocalypse for the second time last night. I still think it's a great movie; doesn't fall in with the comics idea of Apocalypse, of course, but if you take the story for what it is, I really enjoyed it and I think the kids they chose for the roles of the young X-Men were fantastic; much better than the original actors. I would just like to see them get rid of Xavier and Magneto for future movies. They aren't needed and it would be great to see an X-Men movie that truly focused on the X-Men rather than their mentor and his greatest frenemy. I didn't put this in the MCU thread, because it's separate.

The First Class trilogy was better than the original in my opinion. And even with the drop in quality from the first two, Apocalypse doesnít deserve the flak it gets.

What Iíd like to see eventually happen with comic movies is to just drop the shared universe at this point. Like, imagine if they took the proper Age of Apocalypse story, and made a trilogy of that. And then when that was done, take something like, I donít know... the House of M story and make a trilogy of that. It doesnít have to tie in With AoA are anything else... just a self contained trilogy and so on and so forth.

Prime Time
07-05-2018, 12:24 PM
The First Class trilogy was better than the original in my opinion. And even with the drop in quality from the first two, Apocalypse doesn’t deserve the flak it gets.


I agree with that too, thought it was fine.

mizfan
07-05-2018, 01:16 PM
Yeah, the Apocalypse film was not bad by any stretch. I'd like a better one eventually, please, but it had it's moments. It's no X3, certainly.

XanMan
07-05-2018, 03:06 PM
See, I don't get the love for Days of Future Past. I have tried several times to get into that movie and I can't. I have finished it, but never even liked it, much less loved it. To me, if there's a drop in quality, it's from First Class to Days of Future Past and then Apocalypse brings it back up.

BTW, it is now rumored there will be a "Thanos Edition" of Avengers: Infinity War with 30 additional minutes of Thanos' backstory. Sounds great to me!

mizfan
07-05-2018, 04:03 PM
I thought Future Past was overrated but I wouldn't go that far. I did like how it canonically "fixed" the X Men universe. I also thought it was better than Apocalypse, though I could be persuaded that First Class was the best of the bunch. Kevin Bacon for the win!

Could definitely get into some extended Thanos stuff, thought they did a great job with a different take on the character.

Powder
07-05-2018, 07:16 PM
See, I don't get the love for Days of Future Past. I have tried several times to get into that movie and I can't. I have finished it, but never even liked it, much less loved it. To me, if there's a drop in quality, it's from First Class to Days of Future Past and then Apocalypse brings it back up.

BTW, it is now rumored there will be a "Thanos Edition" of Avengers: Infinity War with 30 additional minutes of Thanos' backstory. Sounds great to me!

The Thanos Extended Edition is NOT going to be released, is the last I heard of it. There is 30 extra minutes that was cut out of the movie, but the latest I heard was that those minutes will not be released.

XanMan
07-06-2018, 09:58 AM
This is the last I have seen of it, and it was only from three days ago. If something else has popped up in the meantime, please share.

https://www.gamesradar.com/avengers-infinity-war-is-getting-an-extended-thanos-cut-with-an-extra-30-minutes-of-footage/


As far as Days of Future Past, I don't dislike it, but it's very hand-wavey for me. I have heard the Rogue Cut is better, so I may try that one some time, but I doubt it fixes the stuff that doesn't work for me, so it might make me slightly like it, but it won't get better than that. Here's some stuff that bugs me, though I honestly can't pinpoint exactly why I can't truly get into it:

1) Shadowcat should be the one going back in time, not Wolverine. I realize Wolvie is the most popular of the franchise, etc, but this would have been a perfect opportunity to explore their relationship that is so amazing in the comics and they decided not to; presumably because it was an easier write not to. That's never a good reason.

2) The serum. Really? I mean talk about a convenient plot device. It both inhibits powers and fixes spine injuries? Sure. Why not just put it in a time capsule Logan can dig up, inject one Sentinel with so it can spread a virus to all the other sentinels that make them all into happy rainbow robots that spread peace throughout the universe?

3) Quicksilver is not that much of a moron. I mean, I love his scenes; I really do. They're the best parts of the movie, but it takes him until after the events of the movie to figure out Magneto is his father? I will never buy that.

4) How the fuck is Mystique's ability to change her shape going to allow Sentinels to be able to adapt and copy the powers of mutants? Darwin (who is obviously dead at this time) and Mimic would have made more sense; which leads me to...

5) The entire plot of the movie was built around an excuse to keep Charles, Eric, and Mystique still around. I will grant that Charles should be there at least briefly, but we needed a movie that's about the X-Men; which we finally nearly got with Apocalypse, but apparently still aren't getting with Dark Phoenix. Yes, it's built around Jean, but I'm sure it'll be fucking Xavier that saves the day again. How the hell you make the Dark Phoenix Saga without Wolverine, I have no fucking idea.

6) DOFP wraps up way too easily. Mystique being scary as shit makes Nixon rethink that mutants are a threat? Xavier just lets Magneto fly off, knowing he will probably end up killing more people? What the fuck ever.


There are parts I do like; the stuff in the future is pretty cool, the Quicksilver scenes, Kennedy being a mutant, Charles quoting Logan back to him, Hank is always great; mostly it's just blah to me, though. The stuff above makes me just sit there thinking, "What am I watching?"

mizfan
07-06-2018, 12:49 PM
That's an excellent breakdown and reminds me exactly of why I thought it was overrated at the time, mainly because it was heralded as the best X Men and I didn't think it was really even in that conversation. I still liked it more than you, I think, but still, that's an awesome post.

SirSam
07-08-2018, 08:27 AM
Just saw Ant Man & The Wasp. It was a great pallet cleanser after the intensity of Infinity Wars.

It kept the light hearted nature of the first one and was funny where it needed to be but still knew when to take itself seriously and hit an emotional high note.

I loved the action set pieces, the growing and shrinking concepts really make things interesting and allow them to be creative with how things get done. The car chase in particular was a real highlight with them speeding around the streets and using the shrinking and growing to full effect.

I was split on Ava/Ghost, when she first showed up she was badass and at first it looked like her motives were quite interesting and conflicted however by the end they kind of dropped that and her character just became a pretty basic, 'I don't care about anyone else' character. Still were cool and her outfit may be one of my favourite in all the Marvel Universe.

Overall, great Marvel movie, at this point these guys just know their formula for the single super hero movie and while certainly didn't try to reinvent the wheel, it was none the less a very entertaining movie.

XanMan
07-09-2018, 08:38 AM
I thought Ant-Man was okay; haven't seen the new one yet. I despise that they are using Scott Lang. I think a full trilogy of Hank Pym movies would have been awesome. First one he is Ant-Man, second one he is Giant Man, third one he is the older Pym that can only shrink and grow items like in West Coast Avengers and has to get by on ingenuity. We would also see the span of his relationship with Janet.

Powder
07-14-2018, 07:37 AM
Just saw Ant Man & The Wasp. It was a great pallet cleanser after the intensity of Infinity Wars.

It kept the light hearted nature of the first one and was funny where it needed to be but still knew when to take itself seriously and hit an emotional high note.

I loved the action set pieces, the growing and shrinking concepts really make things interesting and allow them to be creative with how things get done. The car chase in particular was a real highlight with them speeding around the streets and using the shrinking and growing to full effect.

I was split on Ava/Ghost, when she first showed up she was badass and at first it looked like her motives were quite interesting and conflicted however by the end they kind of dropped that and her character just became a pretty basic, 'I don't care about anyone else' character. Still were cool and her outfit may be one of my favourite in all the Marvel Universe.

Overall, great Marvel movie, at this point these guys just know their formula for the single super hero movie and while certainly didn't try to reinvent the wheel, it was none the less a very entertaining movie.

I agree with the entirely.

Samuel 'Plan
07-22-2018, 03:18 AM
It's not even out in the UK yet!

So news hit last couple of days that James Gunn has been fired from Disney because of some old divisive comments he made on his Twitter a number of years ago, and not a lot of people are happy about it. Taika Watiti is being asked for as a replacement by fans.

Putting the moral debate aside, from a purely creative standpoint I dare say Guardians would benefit from a new director, and not Watiti. Guardians 2 got totally out of control with the humour, totally missing the brilliant balancing act the first one struck. I'd like to see a return to the right mix of humour and pathos we got in the first, and I don't think Gunn would deliver that frankly. Guardians 2 was nothing if not in love with itself.

meandi
07-22-2018, 01:57 PM
Iím a bit biased because the CapAm movies have been my favorites (especially Winter Soldier and Civil War), And Infinity War was amazing, as well... Iíd have no problem with the Russo Bros directing everything from here on out. Mind you... I donít want them necessarily writing; bring in some of the other guys that have written other movies, and let them bounce ideas off each other (Much like they did for IW), but, yeah... just let the Russo Bros direct everything.

Samuel 'Plan
07-28-2018, 03:29 AM
So what can we expect from the MCU post-Avengers 4 do we think? I know they've announced a few films already, but presumably the Thanos arc ends in the next Avengers which leaves the path wide open should the shared universe idea continue on - especially in lieu of Disney and Fox now sealing the deal, which will see X-Men be available to the MCU.

A new collective arc, and if so, what? Or would they be better shelving shared universe for a time and instead focus on just making excellent individual films - something I feel has been a struggle for Marvel, generally speaking, really from the beginning. Lots of decent, not much great.

meandi
07-28-2018, 04:24 PM
Really disappointed Marvel didnít attend SDCC this year, although I totally understand why they wouldnít. Canít really go around throwing out new titles and trailers before Avengers 4 finishes the current crop of stuff.

Samuel 'Plan
08-05-2018, 11:56 AM
Saw Ant-Man and the Wasp last night.

Not sure how I feel. It was as safe a Marvel movie as you can get. Was that a wise idea in the wake of something as subversive and intense as Infinity War? Or a disappointing return to standard after something very interesting?

I'll have to let it digest a little more before where I stand with it. Entertained me though.

Prime Time
08-07-2018, 07:48 AM
I saw Ant-Man and Wasp. Went in with no real expectations because I hadn't seen the first one, but thought it was a lot of fun. I had a blast.

XanMan
08-12-2018, 04:28 PM
So apparently Sony actually has the rights to around 900 characters as part of their license deal with Marvel. They have scrapped the plan for Black and Silver, but if Venom does well a solo Black Cat movie and a Kraven solo may be in the works along with several very minor characters getting their own films. There is also a possibility of MCU characters popping up in the Spider-Verse.

Samuel 'Plan
08-12-2018, 05:45 PM
Ya know, I was thinking the other day (and apologies, because this is slightly off topic) whether WB have missed a trick in not reflecting Sony, rather than Marvel.

I'm not convinced of multiple Spider-Man supporting characters getting solo off-shoots but it strikes me a shared Bat Family universe, rather than a shared DC universe, could have worked really well.

Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood and Batwoman would have all made for awesome solo franchises just to start with, and a collective film would've obviously been easy to bring together. Maybe a City of Owls story or something for example. They could have even carried on the Nolan-verse to do it.

But that's for another thread I'm sure! I'm not certain how much interest there is in the likes of a solo Kraven film, as an example, but I remain a believer it all boils down to one thing: is it a good movie? If so, let Sony blast out as many as they like. Otherwise restraint might be in order...

XanMan
08-13-2018, 10:42 AM
Along with, "Is it a good movie?" is the question, "How many superhero origin stories can I take?" I would like these companies to start taking a chance and showing these characters in media res. I don't need to see young Kraven growing up or Felicia Hardy learning how to be a cat burglar. Let's get some movies where these characters are already fully formed and doing their thing. Otherwise it's basically the same story we keep being told and, as much as I love Marvel, getting pretty old. From the previews, I think Aquaman is going to strike a nice balance, but we really haven't seen that yet from any of the big companies. It might not be since, Hellboy, actually.

EDIT: I forgot to comment on your actual idea. I think a series of Gotham related movies would have been great. I was lukewarm on the tv show, but I would love to see those individual movies you listed; it would be kind of like Marvel's Defenders. There will be a Batwoman series on WB next year; I'm not sure if you knew that or not. I would rather that Wayward Sisters had gotten the nod, but I'm not butthurt over it or anything.

LWO4Life
08-13-2018, 11:12 AM
My thing about origin stories is this. Is the character familiar with main stream audiences? Say for instance Superman. Superman doesn't need another origin story ever again. My wife knows the Superman story. But, say Ant-Man, no one knows Ant-Man. Having an origin story helped my wife, who had no idea who he was, understand why he appeared in Civil War. Marvel has done a great job and I'd say found a second wind. Except Winter Soldier, I thought all the sequels of Iron Man 3, Thor 2, Avengers 2, all were meh. But since Civil War the movies really picked up and now putting out fun movies. I saw Ant-Man and the Wasp with the kids, first Marvel movie in a while with no curse words and it was really, really fun.

meandi
08-13-2018, 11:48 AM
Along with, "Is it a good movie?" is the question, "How many superhero origin stories can I take?" I would like these companies to start taking a chance and showing these characters in media res. I don't need to see young Kraven growing up or Felicia Hardy learning how to be a cat burglar. Let's get some movies where these characters are already fully formed and doing their thing. Otherwise it's basically the same story we keep being told and, as much as I love Marvel, getting pretty old. From the previews, I think Aquaman is going to strike a nice balance, but we really haven't seen that yet from any of the big companies. It might not be since, Hellboy.



SpiderMan: Homecoming. Even the bit in Civil War when he goes to tell the story, and Stark is like ďYeah, whatever... I gotta go.Ē That was about the perfect tease.

XanMan
08-13-2018, 12:05 PM
Good call. And I suppose Incredible Hulk, too, if you don't take it as a continuation from Ang Lee's Hulk.

LK, the thing is why do superhero movies have to do that when others don't? I'm not saying no others do, but take, for example, Mission: Impossible, Tombstone, or Ocean's 11. The leads of those movies--all blockbusters--are already fully formed characters and we don't need to see them start in their formative years or whatever. We just roll with the current predicament they are in. That's how I think more superhero movies should be. Even if audiences don't know the origin, there can be a brief touch on it or something; it doesn't have to be all or most of the movie.

LWO4Life
08-13-2018, 12:32 PM
SpiderMan: Homecoming. Even the bit in Civil War when he goes to tell the story, and Stark is like “Yeah, whatever... I gotta go.” That was about the perfect tease.


Good call. And I suppose Incredible Hulk, too, if you don't take it as a continuation from Ang Lee's Hulk.

LK, the thing is why do superhero movies have to do that when others don't? I'm not saying no others do, but take, for example, Mission: Impossible, Tombstone, or Ocean's 11. The leads of those movies--all blockbusters--are already fully formed characters and we don't need to see them start in their formative years or whatever. We just roll with the current predicament they are in. That's how I think more superhero movies should be. Even if audiences don't know the origin, there can be a brief touch on it or something; it doesn't have to be all or most of the movie.

Spiderman though is one of those that EVERYBODY knows. The world doesn't need ANOTHER Spiderman origin story.

I think an origin story is good if it's a good story. I mean look at Iron Man 1. The way the MCU is set up, really Iron Man 2 is Iron Man's connection to the MCU, and if you skip Iron Man 1 and then jump to Iron Man 2, you really aren't missing anything. And the Hulk movie, now in the context of the MCU really makes no sense at all. But Iron Man 1 was just a better movie with an actual story to tell of a man who's greedy and self centered, and you go from that to Iron Man, to now being the voice of reason in the Avengers and giving Spiderman the same speech as Fury gave him in IM2. If the origin story is good, then you should tell it. Black Panther did not get an origin story. He was already Black Panther, which worked for that story, because the story of him getting Black Panther from his dad was not an interesting story. His country was isolated, he was a rich prince, and his dad was the king and got too old to be Black Panther. No need for that origin story. But a character no one knows, like Ant-Man, a criminal, who is trying to redeem himself for his daughter and becomes a super hero, that's a good story to tell.

XanMan
08-13-2018, 01:10 PM
No, it wasn't, because the movie should have been about Hank Pym and not Scott Lang, but I get your point.:cool:

LWO4Life
08-13-2018, 01:26 PM
No, it wasn't, because the movie should have been about Hank Pym and not Scott Lang, but I get your point.:cool:

HAHAHA... I thought the same thing too, and I would have loved to see Avengers start off with the whole original team of Iron, Thor, Hulk, Hank Pym and Janet van Dyne, with Cap all from the first movie, but hey, they went this route and I ain't mad at it... LOL.

JacobWrestledGod
08-13-2018, 07:28 PM
Talking about the Lee Ang Hulk, anyone found that movie actually underrated and deeply misunderstood?

Powder
08-13-2018, 07:46 PM
Talking about the Ang Lee Hulk, anyone found that movie actually underrated and deeply misunderstood?

Fixed, and no way. That movie completely re-wrote the origin of the Hulk and not in a good way. Also the dad (Nick Nolte) as the villain who first made Hulk Dogs and then turned into a "electricity monster", was absolute garbage.

meandi
08-13-2018, 09:22 PM
Spiderman though is one of those that EVERYBODY knows. The world doesn't need ANOTHER Spiderman origin story.

I think an origin story is good if it's a good story. I mean look at Iron Man 1. The way the MCU is set up, really Iron Man 2 is Iron Man's connection to the MCU, and if you skip Iron Man 1 and then jump to Iron Man 2, you really aren't missing anything. And the Hulk movie, now in the context of the MCU really makes no sense at all. But Iron Man 1 was just a better movie with an actual story to tell of a man who's greedy and self centered, and you go from that to Iron Man, to now being the voice of reason in the Avengers and giving Spiderman the same speech as Fury gave him in IM2. If the origin story is good, then you should tell it. Black Panther did not get an origin story. He was already Black Panther, which worked for that story, because the story of him getting Black Panther from his dad was not an interesting story. His country was isolated, he was a rich prince, and his dad was the king and got too old to be Black Panther. No need for that origin story. But a character no one knows, like Ant-Man, a criminal, who is trying to redeem himself for his daughter and becomes a super hero, that's a good story to tell.

One last thing about origin stories, and then we close that discussion if yíall want... some characters need a fully fleshed out origin story (Dr. Strange and Ant Man) and some donít (Black Panther). Some only need a couple of scenes to explain why theyíre there all of a sudden (Vision in AoU). I have a feeling going forward (after Captain Marvel, which Iím pretty sure will be a fully fleshed origin story), the writers are going to be able to start incorporating the ďfew scenesĒ origin story because of how many Easter eggs and subtle notes theyíve dropped over the past 10 years. For example... Adam Warlock will probably get the Vision treatment because heís already been hinted at previously. Whenever the X-Men come in, there will be zero backstory. (Except a scene to explain why theyíve been under the radar the entire time.) The F4 can probably pull off the origin story through quick little flashbacks peppered through the movie.

XanMan
08-14-2018, 10:05 AM
If they are going to continue the current X-Men timeline and just incorporate those characters and actors, then there would have to be some sort of universe merging going on. Remember, basically when the world found out about superpowered beings in the MCU it was when the attack in New York happened. When the world found out about mutants in the X-Men movies, it was the 1960s.

meandi
08-14-2018, 12:02 PM
Eh... recast the X-Men and F4. Run a couple of solo films for both those franchises while still running current MCU films. Sprinkle in a few Easter eggs here and there about a Secret Wars style arc throughout the different franchises and then eventually merge everything in a future film.

XanMan
08-14-2018, 04:00 PM
That will probably happen, but personally I don't want to see the X-Men recast except Wolverine and the killing off or exiling of Magneto and Xavier. The cast in X-Men: Apocalypse was stellar.

meandi
08-14-2018, 04:41 PM
Would a cast that young fit in with the current crop of actors, though? It was fine casting them in the Fox lead movies seeing as how it looked like Fox was was willing to take the time for us to watch them grow up over however many movies. Throwing that cast in with the MCU cast wouldnít feel right in my opinion.

Samuel 'Plan
08-18-2018, 05:52 AM
I'd rather them recast X-Men completely, in honesty, and I say that as someone who may consider the X-Men franchise as my second favourite superhero franchise after Nolan's TDK trilogy. I think Stewart and McKellen, McAvoy and Fassbender have all been absolute revelations as Xavier and Magneto, and I adore their work much more than anything involving Wolverine (barring Logan, perhaps). But trying to cram the continuity together would be a nightmare, and serve to confuse ordinary movie goers. Besides, DOFP did well to marry the convoluted X-Men continuity together in a way that works nicely, so Dark Phoenix would be a nice place for the franchise to bow out, coming full circle with a (hopefully) better take on the arc they originally kicked off with.

Plus, the MCU has a different tone generally, and it's just too perfect an opportunity to wipe the slate clean with a fresh start to pass up in my mind. I'd re-cast, and I'd play on the real history of the comics - use the idea that there was once an original team of Cyclops, Jean Greay, Beast, Iceman and Angel some decades back or something. Have fun with it!

I also think AvX would be a great arc to move into once the Infinity one is done, though I admit I don't know much about it.

meandi
08-18-2018, 09:43 AM
If you stay true to the comics, youíd have to do quite a few movies to even be able to lay the foundation for AvX. In a nutshell, itís about the Phoenix coming back and the Avengers wanting to kill it once and for all and the X-Men arenít trying to let that happen. Then youíve got Wolverine who is on the fence because he has ties to both teams at that point, and yeah... way too much going on to even begin to try that story.

Samuel 'Plan
08-18-2018, 10:16 AM
You say that, but don't forget it took ten years to build to Infinity War. With them now churning out three films a year, I'm sure you could lay the required foundation in the same span of time again!

meandi
08-18-2018, 10:27 AM
Only if you neglected a lot of the other franchises and focused just on the X-Men. How many movies would it take to establish the mutants and form a connection with them to the point where it would be heart wrenching when Jean is consumed by the Phoenix Force and dies? Then there needs to be movies with the team dealing with the loss and the fallout from that. Youíve got to kill off Xavier at some point and have Cyclops take over and become the militant asshole that people hate, but he gets the job done. Then youíve got to reintroduce the Phoenix Force. That seems like close to a decade of movies right there, and that doesnít take into account all the other franchises.

Now, with all that said, Iíd be all about a slightly watered down version like they did with Civil War. Almost something akin to BvS in which the teams come together in the third act to fight off the big bad.

Samuel 'Plan
08-18-2018, 03:43 PM
Well yeah, that's it exactly - obviously they wouldn't be able to translate it like for like and I doubt they would. But you could comfortably distil it all I would imagine. I'm sure you could find a way to truncate it into a single Phoenix Force encounter, rather than one, a death, a resurrection and a second. I dunno, like I say I'm not familiar with the source material, it just strikes me as an inherently appropriate avenue to take given the recent franchise acquisition happening at a time it looks like the Infinity arc is closing.

meandi
08-20-2018, 10:13 AM
With one episode left, I highly recommend Luke Cage season 2. Much better than the first season. And Bush Master is an awesome villain.

Powder
08-20-2018, 05:30 PM
I liked season one better, as this one tended to drag on at times. Netflix does not need to always make 13 episodes as they could easily condense the series into 10 episodes and then there would be considerable less filler, and more action per episode.

Take a look at GoT, they had 10 episodes per season, and 8 in the most recent, and each episode was amazing. Short and to the point.

Kleckamania
08-20-2018, 11:21 PM
I daresay Luke Cage season 2 was better than season 1. I thoroughly enjoyed Bushmaster. I loved the character building. Episode 1 was the only bad episode.


I finally saw Infinity Wars. I loved it. My only major gripe (minus them killing Spidey- fuck that noise) was no Silver Surfer. I had no illusions of him being in it, but he should have been. I still wait patiently for his own movie. They'd be fools not to do one.


I told a friend before I saw Infinity War that the plot would most likely lead to a parallel universe theme. And after seeing it, they went the way I thought they would. Notice how Dr Strange said things went the way they had to, after Starlord let his emotions screw things up? I'd be willing to bet anything his words seep deeper into Thanos, and it festers. Thanos' love for Gamora will wind up undoing him, and his ambition. What was thought as a mistake, would wind up being the one thing that worked in bringing him down, while all other universes failed from their "successes".

meandi
09-08-2018, 06:56 PM
About halfway through Iron Fist season 2, and itís ace. Like, DareDevil levels of awesomeness.

meandi
09-08-2018, 10:24 PM
Take a look at GoT, they had 10 episodes per season, and 8 in the most recent, and each episode was amazing. Short and to the point.

Sorry for the double post, but Iron Fist 2 did exactly that.

Samuel 'Plan
09-09-2018, 04:42 AM
Watched Black Panther last night, and thoroughly enjoyed it; so much so, in fact, I went out and impromptu picked Infinity War up on bluray before immediately sitting down and watching that too. It's still an outstanding achievement, that film. My only criticism is of Banner.

How Ruffalo and the writers took one of the most tragic, intelligent and game-changing characters in the universe and turned him into some bumbling, hysterical, incapable screaming maniac used exclusively for comic relief and as a plot device, being more annoying than Jar Jar Binks in the process, I don't know. After Ragnarok and IW, I just want Banner to go away the moment he shows up on my screen. Mood killer.

EDIT: I've got to finish my second run through Breaking Bad before getting to Iron Fist S2, but as someone who actually really enjoyed S1 I'm very much looking forward to it.

meandi
09-09-2018, 05:33 PM
I just rewatched Iron Fist S1 last week (sober this time) to get ready for S2. S1 is actually really good, and much the same way I feel about the Luke Cage series, S2 improves on the good things while finding away to cut out some of the general complaints from S1.

Powder
09-10-2018, 09:34 AM
Season 1 of Iron Fist is good? What were you guys watching? It was awful, and Finn Jones is terrible. I am in the middle of season 2, and it so much better than season 1, but it still is NOT good.

Unlike Luke Cage, most of the show is filler. LCS2 was excellent, but a little too long.

The best Iron Fist part was when he showed up in Luke Cage for the 1 episode.

The only reason I watch it is for the rest of the other series, Dare Devil, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Defenders, and Punisher. They all overlap and reference each other.

It is the same reason I still watch Legends of Tomorrow, for the crrossovers, and Arrow, Flash and Supergirl.

meandi
09-10-2018, 11:41 AM
Yes, season 1 of Iron Fist is good. Itís better than season 1 of Luke Cage, The Defenders and most of Punisher. And maybe even better than some of Jess Jones season 2.

Powder
09-10-2018, 02:01 PM
Wow, you are the only one who I have ever head that not only liked it, but loved it. Critics and almost all fans hated season 1, and you saying:
It’s better than season 1 of Luke Cage, The Defenders and most of Punisher. And maybe even better than some of Jess Jones season 2.

Really makes me question your taste.

meandi
09-10-2018, 02:56 PM
Itíll probably really blow your mind when I tell you I liked Andrew Garfield's SpiderMan movies better than Tobey Maguireís then.

Powder
09-10-2018, 04:46 PM
Not at all. I thought Garfield was better as Spiderman than Maguire, and The Amazing SpiderMan was pretty good. I hated the way that they changed the narative about Peter's parents, but he was good. 2 was terrible with Jaime Foxx.

LWO4Life
09-10-2018, 11:17 PM
Garfield was a much better Spiderman than Maguire. The Maguire movies (minus 3) were better movies, than the Amazing Spiderman, but I truly liked Garfield as Spiderman so much better.

meandi
09-11-2018, 10:37 AM
I had high hopes he would cross over after the Sony/Disney deal, but Iím content with Tom Holland. Something cool would be having all 3 in a movie if they ever did go full on multi-verse.

Powder
09-11-2018, 12:14 PM
Tom Holland has the truest representation of Spidey/Parker to the comics, but I find that I can't re-watch Homecoming over and over again. Maybe bc I don't like the liberty taken with MJ, and I really do not like Keaton as Vulture. I think Keaton was great, but not as Vulture. Why couldn't they find a skinny, older evil business man to portray Adrian Toomes? There are plenty of actors, and they could shave their heads.

I am ok with liberties, and diverging from comics, but not at the heart of the character.

Take the Nolanverse.

Scarecrow - A psychologust who wants to rule and intimidate by fear.
Ra's Al Ghul - an evil criminal mastermind who leads the League of Assassins and wants to cleanse the world
Joker - a pschyo-sociopath who only cares about destruction and chaos who doesn't want to kill Batman
Two-Face - a fallen good guy DA who was horribly scared causing a separate personality to emerge
Bane - biggest change, but a big muscualar guy who wanted to Break the Bat
Talia - Daughter of Ra's who falls for Bruce/Batman who ends up wanting to finish her father's purpose in ending Gotham and the Bat

If you watch the movies, the characters are tweaked but they are not really removed from who they are. Ra's is not immortal, and there aren't Lazaras Pits. But Toomes is clearly changed.

LWO4Life
09-11-2018, 01:46 PM
We have to agree to disagree with Homecoming. I think Spiderman being rebooted 3 times has hurt the Marvel Spiderman so much, that they had to make alterations that the audience hasn't seen. If you just revisit MJ, or Stacy, the audience already saw it. Look at Superman, the more you reboot something, the more the audience rolls their eyes at the same old shit.

comfortablynumb
09-11-2018, 01:56 PM
Definitely agree on the reboots hurting the franchise. I'm so glad we got no origin this time around. I'd rather see Miles Morales in live-action films than more Parker films at this point.

LWO4Life
09-11-2018, 02:33 PM
I kind of wish Marvel did do a Miles Morales Spiderman. LOL... I mean if you are going to do Scott Lang instead of Hank Pym for Ant-Man, why not? I understand why you do Peter Parker, but I think the public is more and more ready for a Miles Morales Spiderman.

meandi
09-11-2018, 02:42 PM
Homecoming set the stage for Morales. I forget the characterís name, but the guy that Donald Glover played is the uncle of Morales and becomes a villain himself.

Kleckamania
09-16-2018, 07:21 AM
So.much.Spider-Man talk!




Just the thought of them making a movie with Miles Morales/Spiderverse is insanely exciting. If they got back Garfield, Holland, and Macquire for it I would lose my mind.


As for who is the best Spider-Man so far- it is Andrew Garfield by a country mile. He nailed Spideys personality. The sarcasm was soooo good. Holland is the best Peter Parker, and Tobey Macquire existed and took up space fairly well. I miss Garfield as Spider-Man, though Holland is good, and I'm currently okay with him in the role, though I think Morales would be perfect timing if they need to inject him in.




As for Marvel on Netflix, Iron Fist season 1 was better than it gets credit for. Iron Fist season 2 is outstanding imo. It got better with every single episode of the season. Cliff hanger after cliff hanger, so well written. I looooved the character arcs of Ward and his sis, and the villain was so perfect it was just the perfect storm. They also set it up for a very interesting season 3.


Imo, the two worst seasons we have seen from all shows combined was Jess Jones season 2, and The Defenders. Defenders was throw away rubbish, Jess Jones season 2 was completely abysmal. Jess Jones season 2 was one of the biggest let downs ever after such a great first season. Truly, the drizzling shits of the entire series. Iron Fist season 1 is leagues better than Jess Jones season 2 imo.


The best seasons would be Jess Jones season 1, Daredevils 2 seasons, and Iron Fist season 2, then Punisher. Luke Cage is somewhere in the middle. Both seasons are pretty equal. I enjoyed season 2. I really enjoyed Bushmaster's character arch.


The most exciting news though, just leaked, Daredevil season 3 drops on October 18th folks.. just a few weeks away!!

Powder
09-16-2018, 10:15 AM
The man in the High Castle Season 3 drops a week prior to DDS3. It's going to be tough to watch all at the same time.

Prime Time
09-23-2018, 05:11 PM
I've seen the trailer for Venom at the cinema a couple of times now. I guess that must be out soon - not sure whether I think it looks promising or not.

Powder
09-23-2018, 05:13 PM
Looks promising, but the main knock is how can you introduce Venom WITHOUT Spiderman?

meandi
09-23-2018, 05:49 PM
Thatís pretty much my gripe, as well. But Tom Hardy is awesome in everything he does, so hopefully we get a coherent story and some great acting from him.

Powder
09-23-2018, 06:21 PM
From some of the excerpts from the trailer, Hardy is playing Eddie Brock as whimpering. Brock is a strong, asshole bully, which is exactly why the Venom/symbiote attaches itself to him and thrives.

Also it seems from the trailers, that Carnage is a second symbiote who will be the main villain. And Carnage is the offspring of Venom and much stronger than Venom, and if memory serves, doesn't it take Venom AND Spidey teaming up to take him down.

meandi
09-23-2018, 06:44 PM
Yeah, Spidey typically has to show up to help Venom take down Carnage.

Iím definitely willing to give it a chance. Iím sure Iíll read all the negative reviews of it just like BvS and Justice League, and then Iíll rent it when it hits amazon prime and find a way to enjoy it regardless. (Just like BvS and JL...)

Powder
09-23-2018, 07:56 PM
I am going to see it, but I do not know if I will like it.

LK3185
09-23-2018, 10:25 PM
I think it looks interesting.. and I'm not expecting it to follow the comics because if it did that initially, its not a Venom movie... He's a ruthless spider-man villian (and I feel that's the best take on the character... but I imagine Sony/Marvel wants an anti hero)

Prime Time
09-24-2018, 04:22 AM
As the audience for comic book movies is a lot bigger than the audience for comic books, and not everyone who reads the source material will care, I imagine they can get away with making that kind of change because to a lot of people it just won't really matter.

Powder
09-25-2018, 08:45 AM
I agree, but isn’t Venom one of those iconic characters that most people know who he is? Not like Captain Marvel. She is NOT as well know as Venom. Even the real Captain Marvel from DC is not as well known as Venom.

Prime Time
09-25-2018, 09:15 AM
If I had to put money on it my guess would be that the only character 'most people' know in Spiderman, is Spiderman.

I mean I'm sure if you're into the movies you probably remember him from Spiderman 3 and most Marvel fans will obviously know the character - but at the same time I reckon I know a whole lot of people that I could ring up and ask them to name a villain, his girlfriend, or his aunt, and they probably wouldn't be able to do it. But we do tend to assume that stuff we like is better known than we think it is (it's why setting a quiz, especially a music quiz, can be difficult - it's really easy to make it too hard).

Powder
09-25-2018, 09:26 AM
I hear you with music, because there is good music, and great music, and some ok music, then there is complete shot called Country music.


BUUUUUUT, I still cannot believe that they are giving Venom his own movie without Spidey. That is just wrong. It is like making a Batman origin without a killing his parents, or Superman without destroying Krypton, or Spider-Man without him getting bit by a spider. Venom was part of Spider-Man prior to becoming attached to Brock.

LK3185
09-25-2018, 12:03 PM
I think part of the issue is they already did the Venom story pretty poorly in that third spider-man movie and sony at this point wants to make a bunch of movies about Spidey characters but not another Spidey/Venom movie. It's also pretty easy to take an alien symboite and make it so its contained in a lab and doesn't just show up on Spider-Man like in the comics.

Powder
09-25-2018, 12:18 PM
I completely agree that making venom a self contained Alien Symbiote, or a medical/military experiment gone wrong is easy to do, but that changes almost everything about Venom.

What if Bruce Wayne's parents were strangled, not shot, would Batman then use guns?
What if Superman landed in NY and not Kansas, would he still be a big blue boy scout, or would he be an asshole like Batman (an the rest of us New Yorkers)? (Or in Russia like in Red Son)
What if instead of the spider being radiated it was another insect?


See my point? it is easy to adapt and change the history, like Marvel did with Guardians of the Galaxy b/c they were all very minor players in the comic book world, but Venom is one of the top villains of all time, and Spidey's #1 villain (maybe #2 to Norman Osbourne). Venom ranks with the Joker, Luthor, and Magneto, and they changed his origin. The movie probably will be good, and entertaining, but I hate when they really deviate from the source material.

LK3185
09-25-2018, 12:34 PM
No, I get the point and I would prefer a Venom origin a little bit closer to the source material. Its not something that keeps me from the movie though. As long as its a good story. The origin for me just doesn't hold impact anymore because Venom is never going to be that again.. so while its unfortunte, its something i can live with. You can't.

meandi
09-25-2018, 12:41 PM
Kind of a shame they went with Brock instead of Flash Thompson. Couldíve gone Agent Venom and then we wouldnít really need to argue about the origin or Spidey not being around.

Powder
09-25-2018, 12:53 PM
Flash never had the symbiote though, right?

meandi
09-25-2018, 01:07 PM
Given to him after he lost his legs in the Iraq War.

Powder
09-25-2018, 01:23 PM
Ok.. had no idea.

meandi
09-26-2018, 08:07 PM
Captain Marvel trailer is out. Looks like Marvel/Disney is about to start printing money yet again.

Samuel 'Plan
09-29-2018, 04:29 AM
Very intrigued by Captain Marvel. I know absolutely nothing about the character and want to go into it cold this time. I did some reading around Black Panther and Guardians, who I also knew nothing about. But I really like the idea of heading into one of these films with a blank slate. Also, the trailer won me over with the first shot of a Blockbuster video store! Man, the nostalgia there! Hopefully CGI'ing Jackson's face won't prove distracting. I am a little worried about that one.

meandi
10-05-2018, 02:03 PM
Saw Daredevil S3 trailer this morning. Looks like theyíve managed to take it even darker than the first two seasons.

Powder
10-08-2018, 06:24 PM
OK...so....Venom.

The movie was good and entertaining. It was not light and fun like Deadpool or the MCU, but it had humor. They got most of Venom's origin correct with the entire LACK IF F'N SPIDER-MAN!!!! Also they made Eddie Brock, the stereotypical High School bully, turned into adult bully (which is THE reason that Venom finds it's true host with Brock) into a whiny, down on his luck loser who is a underlying nice guy who constantly makes poor life choices and can't get out of his own way.

I know I am usually overly hard on comic book movies/shows with their changes to the source material, but this one, to me is unforgivable. Venom and Eddie Brock are HUGE parts of Spider-man's history, and Fox threw that out the window.

The movie was fun, but very disappointing to this comic book fan.




Secondly, they showed a Captain Marvel trailer before the movie, and I have one gripe about it. The MCU has been really, really good about continuity and references to its own history throughout its entire 10 year, 20 film universe.

Now with the Captain Marvel trailer, we see a young Nick Fury clearly interacting and helping Capt. Marvel, fine, no problem. I have absolutely no issue with this, EXCEPT that in the Avengers, when Fury was questioned by Stark, Banner and Rogers about his development about the Phase 2 weapons he states it was because of Thor. see below


Bruce Banner: I'd like to know why SHIELD is using the Tesseract to build weapons of mass destruction.

Nick Fury: Because of him!

[points at Thor]

Thor: Me?

Nick Fury: Last year, Earth had a visit from another planet that had a grudge match that leveled a small town. We learned that only are we not alone, but we are hopelessly, hilariously outgunned.

Thor: My people want nothing but peace with your planet!

Nick Fury: But you're not the only ones out there, are you? And you're not the only threat. The world is filling up with people that can't be matched, that can't be controlled!

Steve Rogers: Like you control the cube?

In this dialogue, we (the Audience) learn that SHIELD and Fury learn about Alien life from Thor's first visit to Earth. Now if almost 20 years earlier Fury had met/helped/trained Captain Marvel, and we see what she is capable of in the trailer, why would't SHIELD have learned about aliens then and have been making weapons in the 20 years since her visit? Why wouldn't SHIELD have called in Marvel when Loki attacked in Thor and then in the Avengers with the Chitauri, or in Ultorn to help out with Ulton?

Seems to me that if an Alien (Loki) is summoning an Alien army and leveling New York, he would have called Marvel to help.


The MCU, as I said, has been really good with its continuity, but this is a HUGE hole. The weapons comment in Avengers indicating that he had no idea about aliens prior to THOR makes no sense as of right now.

meandi
10-08-2018, 08:11 PM
Just a theory, but maybe Captain Marvel is able to contain the Skrulls/Kree/whomever and keep them in space. Fury has no reason to suspect of any future attack on Earth because of Carol keeping things out there. Or maybe... Fury just shows up in the beginning while Carol is still an Air Force pilot and has no idea she ends up in space later. Just spit balling random thoughts... surely at this point, Marvel knows to go back and review everything before continuing with a new story so as not to contradict things. (Although... Guardians 1 claims Gamorra was the only survivor of her planet whereas IW states Thanos only killed half. So maybe they do let things slide through unnoticed.

Powder
10-08-2018, 09:21 PM
Regardless of keeping the Kree in space SHIELD had to know about aliens prior to THOR.

Also I completely forgot that Agents of SHIELD is cannon, and they had Colson being healed/brought back to life by a [dead] Kree. So SHIELD knew about aliens because they had some.

meandi
10-08-2018, 09:47 PM
Maybe they did. And maybe Fury knew that Carol was handling that while at the same time thinking those were the only ones and she had it taken care of. Almost like he was completely ignorant of the possibility of other alien races being out there.

Powder
10-08-2018, 10:14 PM
But then why does Fury say in Avengers,
Last year, Earth had a visit from another planet that had a grudge match that leveled a small town. We learned that only are we not alone, but we are hopelessly, hilariously outgunned.?

It contradicts the cannon of Captain Marvel.

Samuel 'Plan
10-10-2018, 03:03 PM
Technically speaking, there's nothing in that line of dialogue that demonstrates Fury didn't know about alien life before Thor himself or that SHIELD didn't either.

Powder
10-10-2018, 07:28 PM
We learned.

Those two words imply that they did not know of alien life prior to Thor. If Fury said, "we saw", or "we realized", or "we decided" etc, then I can agree with you. But "We learned" (as a teacher) directly states that this was information that was not known prior.

Samuel 'Plan
10-11-2018, 02:22 AM
Of course it does. But "we" does not inherently mean Nick Fury and SHIELD.

Powder
10-11-2018, 08:15 AM
Well regardless, in Captain Marvel, they have a lot of 'splainin' to do. They need to explain:

1. Why wasn't Marvel contacted to help with Thor and Loki when they first arrived in New Mexico?
2. Why wasn't Marvel contacted to help the Avengers with Loki and the Chitauri?
3. Why wasn't Marvel (or the Avengers for that matter) contacted with the Dark Elves' ship landed (another alien ship) in London?
4. Why wasn't Marvel contacted to help with Ultron?
5. Why did Fury not tell anyone about her existence until after Thanos' ships landed in Wakanda?

Again, the MCU has been really good about continuity but they seemed to overlook Captain Marvel.

meandi
10-12-2018, 09:30 AM
I canít imagine youíre the only person asking these questions, just like I canít imagine Marvel wouldnít have a good explanation already in store for us.

Powder
10-12-2018, 11:21 AM
Maybe on these boards, but not over the rest of the internet.

meandi
10-15-2018, 10:41 PM
After reading a few articles... apparently Iron Fist was cancelled and wonít have a 3rd season. Iím quite upset due to having re-watching S1 right before S2... S1 had faults, yes. It was still a good story, though. S2 was quite excellent. ďThe DefendersĒ may or may not have ruined Danny... I should perhaps go and watch that again. Anyway... first Marvel show to not receive a sequel (or three-quel)... discuss, please.

Powder
10-16-2018, 08:03 AM
Season 2 was MUCH better than S1, but it still was not good. The last 15 minutes was the best ending of any Marvel series on Netflix, and left us actually wanting more. BUT those 15 minutes do NOT make up for the total cluster f#@k of the show.

BUT, Iron Fist is not off the table. He will show up in other series, and possible Power Man and Iron Fist team ups, AND the show might be revived in a "Pay to watch Disney Channel", not the Disney Channel, similar to the DC channel. This channel is reportedly also having a Loki and Scarlet Witch series starring Hiddelston and Olsen, and now a revived Iron Fist. so all may not be lost.

meandi
10-18-2018, 10:16 PM
What are these shows with Hiddleston and Olsen you speak of? I havenít seen any mention of this. Also, if theyíre pulling the plug on Iron Fist after perhaps the best cliff-hanger of any of the shows... I donít see Danny showing up in anything else. Maybe if Marvel does some wrangling and gets all 4 shows away from Netflix (donít know what the status of that is like where Fox had X-Men/F4 and what-not. But kind of how they did Spider-Man with Sony, maybe...) and dumps this on the Disney streaming network, then, yeah, maybe.

Powder
10-19-2018, 08:01 AM
I read that the Danny Rand character is definitely going to appear in the other Netflix shows. My best guess is Luke Cage again as they are teamed up in the comics, and he might have a cameo in future seasons of the others, and Defenders season 2, obviously.

And here is a link to the Loki and Scarlet Witch shows, along with perspective others.

https://tvline.com/2018/09/18/loki-tv-series-tom-hiddleston-disney-streaming-service/

comfortablynumb
10-19-2018, 10:46 AM
I’d love to see a real Heroes forHire season. I don’t think Defenders is getting a season 2. Ritter said she doubts it, Netflixsays it’s not in the plans and Netflix turned the Defenders Facebook page into something entirely different.

meandi
10-19-2018, 07:55 PM
Just got home from work. Daredevil 3 dropped today. Guess I know what Iím doing this weekend...

comfortablynumb
10-19-2018, 11:49 PM
It’s a great season. I enjoyed the Bullseye origin story.

And Luke Cage was canceled today. I enjoyed it because it was different from the others with some great music. Disappointing. Jessica Jones season two was horrible and I have no clue how that got a third season order.

meandi
10-20-2018, 12:01 AM
Dude... spoilers. I have an idea about Bullseye, but Iím only halfway through episode 4. (Thanks for confirming what Iím thinking is gonna happen, though.)

I just wanted to jump back in and mention the ďhallway sceneĒ from this year. Bigger and badder than previous years. I love it.

Also... if Cage is cancelled, that pretty much rules out a Heroes For Hire series. And Defenders 2. Is Netflix purposefully giving these shows up for the supposed Disney streaming channel? Much like Iron Fist... Cage 2 was better than 1. Perhaps these shows will be moved to a different platform. Hopefully. Maybe so. (I need Kristen Ritter in my life at least once a year... so, yeah.)

comfortablynumb
10-20-2018, 12:25 AM
I didn't say one spoiler. It was all over the news and in every preview/review I've read.

meandi
10-20-2018, 12:30 AM
I havenít read anything yet. And it just literally came out today, so... that makes it a spoiler.

comfortablynumb
10-20-2018, 12:35 AM
Not really since they confirmed at Comic Con and it's been out there for over a month. The whole excitement of season three for many was because Bullseye was in it.

Here's a video from May:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drfne5SvurQ

Old news.

LK3185
10-20-2018, 01:02 AM
Don't come in the thread if you don't know who bullseye is basically.

meandi
10-20-2018, 01:12 AM
Apparently Iím behind in my Marvel Netflix shows news... my bad. But still... the day a show drops, you should probably put some kind of spoiler alert when talking about it. Just to make a good/ halfway decent argument... I read detailed spoilers of Infinity War when it first hit the red carpet a couple days before it came out to the rest of America. Wish I wouldnít have read/heard things before I went and watched it a couple days after the premier here in the States.

comfortablynumb
10-20-2018, 01:47 AM
If I went into any detail at all I would have put spoiler or just not said anything,but I wrote a sentence. No malicious intent I promise.


And it’s possible the Disney streaming service is playing a role in the cancellations. Maybe they want to do a Heroes for Hire show on their service.

LK3185
10-20-2018, 06:19 AM
I get why companies are doing it but always feared that because of Netflix success, we'd see countless other services pop up... pretty much forcing people to chose. its annoying.

comfortablynumb
10-20-2018, 06:39 PM
AMC even has a pay app now. Basically the only "benefit" I see is watching Walking Dead with no commercials. Yay.

meandi
10-20-2018, 06:52 PM
Better Call, Saul

Powder
10-21-2018, 07:05 AM
So far Daredevil season 3 is good. I'm on episode 5 and the only negative is the filler. 13 episodes is too long. They really haven't gotten anywhere yet. Yes, some things are happening, but in general, they are playing a really slow burn. Cut 3 episodes and you can speed things up.

meandi
10-21-2018, 04:16 PM
We mustíve watched different episodes. I donít think thereís been any filler other than maybe Karen and her boss arguing.

Powder
10-22-2018, 02:09 PM
The series is too long. I am not saying it is not good, but there is a lot of "get to the damn point" already with me. Not nearly as much as The Walking Dead does on a every damn minute of the show, but there is filler.

meandi
10-22-2018, 03:51 PM
No offense, but Iím starting to think maybe television shows arenít for you. You seem like you want an entire story told start to finish in a sub-two hour sitting.

Powder
10-22-2018, 05:30 PM
No, not at all. I really like the shows, but when you extend a show for the sake of "making 13 episodes" is not beneficial. I really liked that Iron Fist was 10 episodes it severely cut down on non necessary filler. Game of Thrones, was 10 eps per season and there was NO filler. But when you have to fill another 3 hours worth of programming, you need filler crap. Defenders, was 6 episodes and that was all it needed.

To the contrary of your point. I think that every book (any genre) that they decide to make into a movie, is done incorrectly with the exception of the last book/movie in a series, they split into two movies. Take the Harry Potter franchise for instance. When they make the movies they leave out basically almost everything that happens in school (the first half of the books) and much of the conflict during the second half. Why? To condense into a 2 hour 20 minute movie. Stupid.

My idea has always been that when ANY book is made a movie, should be made into a two part movie, and film them both at the same time, like they did with the LOTR trilogy. Then release Part 1 around Memorial Day and Part 2 around Thanksgiving or Christmas. This way you do not have to leave out pertinent details and much of the book. Make "one long" 4-4.5 hour movie rather than a 2 hour 15 minute movie that leaves the reader saying What the Fuck? That didn't happen, or that is not what happened in the book.

Finally, against your point, I am a fan of the extended edition director's cut of the LOTR trilogy. Where each movie had about 30 minutes added to it to make much more sense. The original released films are excellent, but the extended editions which add 1.5 hours worth of movies are much, much better.

To quote women, length is not the issue, it's the motion of the ocean. If you can make a show that does not have unnecessary filler then I'm all for it, but you do not need to extend a series for the sake of it.

Powder
10-28-2018, 04:36 PM
I just finished Daredevil season 3 and wow. It was good. Better than I expected, but I still maintain that there was some filler, and they could have cut the season down to 10 episodes. Regardless, the season was not just about watching Daredevil kick ass, and there is plenty, it is a season of character driven plot for everyone; Matt, Karen, Foggy, Fisk, Dex (Bullseye), and the FBI agent Nadeem.

The ending cleary sets up a season 4, and a few episodes have a cameo from a character from Luke Cage season 2, episode 13 has a nice and whimsical name drop. However, what I will never understand, at all, is Manhattan is NOT that big geographically, so why doesn't any of the defenders ask each other for help?

meandi
10-28-2018, 05:07 PM
Cage and Jones are kind of loners, hence why they wouldnít call the others up for help. I forget what lead Danny to showing up in Cage 2, but it wasnít because Cage just randomly called him up for help. Matt did specifically ask Danny to watch over the city in The Defenders, but (Iím still on episode 5, so I donít know whatís coming...) Matt is still supposedly dead and trying to hide that fact, which is why he wouldnít call up any of the others. Danny doesnít call up others because heís the Iron Fist and his ego wonít allow help.

Powder
10-29-2018, 07:46 AM
I get the loner thing, BUT Cage was introduced during Jessica Jones S1, Danny showed up during Luke Cage S2, AND they all decided to team up for the Defenders. AND Karen shows up and helps out Frank Castle in Punisher S! and 2. Claire Temple was in every Netflix season except Iron Fist 2 and DD 3, so why can't the "Super powered people" get over themselves and ask for help?

Also, with Karen having the battle of NY from the Avengers front pages of the newspapers hanging in her office, you would also think that at least one of the Avengers (or Spider-man) would take interest in Wilson Fisk and his criminal stature IN NYC as it was all over the news, and that Stark tower is in NY and Parker lives in NY.

AND since the Defenders clearly live in the Avengers universe, how are they are not affected by Thanos' snap? Now if all the series take place prior to the Snap, no problem, but if not, then how is no one talking about that half the population disappeared?

meandi
11-04-2018, 12:35 AM
Late to the game (only MCU movies I go to see in the theatre are proper Avengers flicks), but I just watched Antman and the Wasp. I enjoyed it just as much as the first. Good action. Intriguing story. And Michael Pena is freaking awesome yet again. (He might be one of my most under-rated actors ever. Heís good doing serious stuff like Lions For Lambs or End Of Watch; he can also bring comedy like the Antman movies...)

Powder
11-08-2018, 08:36 AM
This morning, I saw a TV ad for an upcoming airing of Iron Man 3, and it got me thinking. What in the hell ever happened to Pepper Pott's Extremis power? In IM3, the movie was good in that they explored the psychological damage done (PTSD) to Tony when he sacrificed himself in the Avengers by pushing the Nuclear Warhead into the wormhole to blow up the Chatauri's mother ship.

Then later on, they save pepper with the Extremis "power" for lack of a better term, and the movie ends with Tony saying "we will figure this out". Well nothing was ever mentioned about this again. Did pepper get cured of the Extremis? If so, by who, and when? if not, why was she not in the fight against Ultron, or Civil War, or Thanos as she now has super abilities.

The MCU is fantastic about continuity, but they dropped the ball on this one.

meandi
11-09-2018, 09:19 PM
I canít answer any of those questions, but apparently there were leaked photos of her with a green screen behind her for Avengers 4, so thereís speculation of her becoming Rescue. (I think thatís the correct name for her.) Maybe theyíll explain whatís happened to her during that movie? (I mean... half of the cast is gone for the first part of the movie... might as well focus on her and Clint and their whereabouts recently...)

Mr Chop
11-09-2018, 10:46 PM
Hw says at the end of Iron Man 3 that he "got Pepper sorted out" which seems to imply she was de-extremisesed.

meandi
11-10-2018, 12:13 AM
That would be really lazy writing if thatís how they explained it. (I honestly donít remember... havenít seen that movie since it came out in theatres.) However... I like how you just decided to invent a new word Mr. Chop.

Rob S.
11-12-2018, 04:05 PM
Stan Lee has died at the age of 95.

meandi
11-12-2018, 08:53 PM
^Sad. Iím going to miss the cameos. I think my three favorites are probably as the mailman in Civil War (Tony Stank...), Thor when heís driving the truck trying to pull Mjolnir out of the ground, and Age of Ultron when Thor gives him the 1000 year old whisky or whatever kind of booze it was.

LWO4Life
11-20-2018, 12:07 PM
Stan was a true culture changer. Like I've posted on my Facebook, he started writing comic book during a time when the Western was the big box office draw, and he helped shift the culture, with characters that relate to the modern American, shaped by the science revolution of the 60's and issues dealing with the civil rights movement of the 60's. The Culture Wars played out on paper and are now being retold as the blockbusters of their day.

Prime Time
11-30-2018, 07:57 AM
Just seen on Twitter that Netflix have cancelled Daredevil?

Powder
11-30-2018, 08:27 AM
YUP. Apparently Netflix has come to a standstill with creative over the Marvel Shows and they think there isn't much left to tell, story wise, so they cancelled the Marvel shows. Jessica Jones and Punisher are either filming or wrapping their season 3 so they will be released when completed, but after that, most likely they will be cancelled as well.

The big rumors going around is that the Disney Streaming Service will pick up all of the shows and continue them in some manner, but who knows. Netflix might own the rights to the shows as they plan on keeping the existing seasons on the network, but not making more. So I am not sure if DSS can make new seasons without being able to reference the past seasons. But again this is all rumor so who knows.....

meandi
11-30-2018, 02:27 PM
Iím not buying the ďnothing left to tell as far as storyline stuff goesĒ. The final scene of both Luke Cage 2 and Iron Fist 2 show they clearly had a plan for the third seasons of both shows. Iím almost positive this is just Disney putting any new stuff on hold until their service starts up. And then at that point, theyíll pick up with Cage 3 and Fist 3 are so on and so forth.

Iím also of the belief that new seasons will not only reference older seasons, but it will still all be canon, and it will be like we didnít miss a beat. Iím almost Marvel learned their lesson selling off characterís rights in the past, and that they still retain all of the Netflix characters. If anything, there might be a small nod to Netflix in the credits. Kind of like how Paramount got a small credit up until the first Avengers movie after Disney bought Marvel and started distributing the movies themselves. Remember... Marvel Studios was making the movies, but they had no way for distribution, which is where Paramount and... maybe Universal(?) stepped in.

comfortablynumb
11-30-2018, 02:31 PM
Yeah, as weird as it sounds, at that early time Marvel was an "independent studio."

I don't buy the "no more story to tell" line either. In Netflix's statement about Daredevil, their CEO or whatever was quoted as saying "Daredevil's adventures will continue to be told," making it sound like it's going to the Disney service.

LK3185
11-30-2018, 03:38 PM
Just what we need, another streaming service to pay for.

comfortablynumb
11-30-2018, 06:07 PM
I think they have an official announcement in April. To their credit they seem to be putting together some quality original programming. Marvel series (Loki, Scarlet Witch, and Falcon and Winter Soldier limited series), Star Wars series (Clone Wars season 7, The Mandalorian and the untitled one featuring Diego Luna's character from Rogue One), High Fidelity series, Mighty Ducks series.

meandi
11-30-2018, 10:10 PM
Honestly, Iíd drop Netflix if DD/JJ/Cage/Fist and Punisher came over to the new Disney streaming platform. Along with all the MCU movies, plus the Star Wars stuff... yes, please. Thereís very little on Netflix that I canít find elsewhere, so thatís not an issue.

meandi
12-07-2018, 10:05 AM
First Avengers 4 trailer has dropped. Let the countdown begin.

Powder
12-09-2018, 04:03 PM
For Endgame, they really do not need any promos or trailers, all Marvel/Disney has to do is announce when tickets go on sale.

meandi
12-09-2018, 04:28 PM
Pretty much

LK3185
12-09-2018, 06:54 PM
Yeah, honestly i don't want to see another trailer. I know they will do several and I'm not against trailers but in this case, you have to guard against showing too much... We know that some characters if not all will be undusted, Avengers save the day.. blah blah. I don't think you have to see those returns.

The Ronin bit was nice tho.

Samuel 'Plan
12-23-2018, 02:07 PM
I imagine they may not release too much more. I'd expect a second trailer at some stage, but think that'll be it. They're so obsessed over plot leaks and the like it seems odd they'd then just go reveal a bunch in a trailer anyway. That being said, they were very clever and sly with the Infinity War trailers so, of course, there's no major guarantee that the trailers will accurately hint at the plot of the final film anyway!

It's gonna be tough to top Infinity War though - not just a great example of its genre, but a very daring and powerful movie too.

meandi
12-23-2018, 02:26 PM
Only thing that I wasnít too enthused about in the Infinity War trailer (other than the fake out with Hulk being in the battle of Wakanda) was them showing CapAm catching Thanoís fist in their fight. That was way too powerful of a moment to show in the trailer. Imagine how much more powerful it wouldíve been had we not known that scene was coming at some point.

Samuel 'Plan
12-23-2018, 02:28 PM
Yeah, that's very true actually. I guess they put it in the trailer because it played off that iconic moment in the comics when he stands up to Thanos alone? I actually hope they recreate that in full in Endgame.

meandi
01-15-2019, 01:23 PM
SpiderMan: Far From Home trailer is out, and holy shit.

comfortablynumb
01-15-2019, 01:30 PM
Those bastards couldn't wait for Endgame to be released.

Powder
01-15-2019, 03:26 PM
That is what I said earlier in conversations with friends.

While we all know that during some point during Endgame the Universe will be reset and Thanos' actions will be undone, but having the trailer with Spidey and Fury spoils that (even though we know it will happen).

meandi
01-15-2019, 06:55 PM
The thing is... it doesnít matter that they didnít wait for End Game before showing this trailer. It was already known going into IW that Spidey had a movie coming out before EG (untitled Avengers at the time) and even Black Panther had one coming out after EG. The snap really didnít mean much when you think about that. If anything, be upset that they even bothered dusting those two characters even though we knew there would be more movies with them.

Powder
01-15-2019, 08:02 PM
We knew there was a movie, yes, but Kayfably speaking, the MCU should try to keep kayfabe, kayfabe. Regardless of what we all know will happen.

meandi
01-16-2019, 12:26 PM
Thatís kind of what I was getting at. Since both those movies had been announced for in between Avengers 3 & 4, those characters shouldnít have been dusted. Showing the trailer doesnít spoil anything about End Game; it was already spoiled by announcing those movies ahead of time.

LK3185
01-16-2019, 12:31 PM
Wasn't a big fan of the trailer cause I feel Spider-man is being treated poorly as a superhero all to fit in the MCU the way they want. Homecoming I enjoyed but Spider-man is my favorite Marvel Character and don't like how it seems like he needs a mentor figure not just Homecoming but this too.. Have never agreed with the Tony Stark angle although admittdly it has its good moments.

Also, Mysterio is clearly pulling a ruse on Spider-man but hopefully he doesn't actually have mystic powers. Kinda kills the character imo.

comfortablynumb
01-16-2019, 12:45 PM
That’s kind of what I was getting at. Since both those movies had been announced for in between Avengers 3 & 4, those characters shouldn’t have been dusted. Showing the trailer doesn’t spoil anything about End Game; it was already spoiled by announcing those movies ahead of time.

Or they could just play along. We all know he'll be back but it'd be fun to play along. Does this movie need to be advertised right now for people to see it? Probably not.

meandi
01-19-2019, 10:40 PM
Just finished episode 3 of Punisher S2. Itís fucking great. Thereís humor. Thereís a few tear jerking scenes. Lots of violence and wtfuck moments. Yíall need to get on this ASAP.

Powder
01-20-2019, 08:42 AM
I concur. I also just watched ep 3 I think it is better than season 1.

meandi
01-20-2019, 01:43 PM
Itís definitely better than season 1 so far. I made it through six episodes last night and will probably finish up tonight. Funny how all the shows are putting out their best seasons just to get cancelled a month later. Disney streaming needs to hurry up and be a thing so they can revive the street level heroes.

Powder
01-22-2019, 08:34 AM
I heard that all the Netflix shows are not getting revived on Disney.

I am on ep 7...and man they put so much into each episode.

meandi
01-22-2019, 01:26 PM
Canít see why they wouldnít, though. If anything, it could open the door to even more shows, I would think.

Powder
01-23-2019, 07:13 PM
I agree...but according to the reports I read, they are done.

Unless it s all a ruse while they work out the rights and payment.

comfortablynumb
01-23-2019, 11:04 PM
I think it’s over for them too, unfortunately. It’s nice to hold out hope but at this point it seems the contract stuff won’t let it happen.

Powder
01-24-2019, 08:16 AM
I finished Punisher season 2 last night. Holy shit, best season of a Marvel Netflix show to date.

meandi
01-26-2019, 02:32 AM
Something came through my facebook or instagram or whatever earlier, and it was talking about the "real reason the netflix shows are getting cancelled". Of course, I clicked on the whole "show me more" banner. Apparently, with each passing season, the scores are getting lower and lower, plus there's less and less overall feedback on the shows. (With the exception of Iron Fist S2... which supposedly got a higher rating than S1, although less feeback...) Me being the half-drunk fucker that I am... I decided to start crunching numbers. I went to the most trusty IMDB. ('Cause I also ran the numbers against Rotten Tomatoes. Which is where this initial data came from.) Apparently, each season has been getting worse and worse reviews. (A few exceptions, though...) My findings after referring to both web pages and crunching my own numbers...

As far as DareDevil goes on IMDB... each season has increased in ratings. S1 did 8.89/10, S2 did 9.05/10, and S3 did 9.16/10. Funny thing, though... overall reviewers went WAY down. 94,091 (7,238 average/episode) S1. 78,498 (6,038/episode) for S2. 49,255 (3,789/episode for S3.) Seems casuals slowly faded out while the die-hard fans stayed around. This isn't the only time we'll see this. Rotten Tomatoes had S1 at: 96% (8159 reviews) for the audience and 99% with 70 reviews for the Tomotameter. S2 was 94% (6510 reviews) for the audience and only a paltry 80% with 55 reviews for the Tomotameter. S3 bounced back in both catagories... 95% (2457 reviews) for the audience and 96% Tomatometer with 55 reviews.

Moving on to Jessica Jones.... according to IMDB, the average episode of S1 was a respectable 8.52 (with an average of 4228 reviewers per episode.) You can already see a loss of 3000 people on average between S1 of DD and S1 of JJ. Why? DD was awesome... JJ is building up to be a bad-ass chick. Why the disparity? Who knows? I actually liked JJ S1more than DD S1. That's just me, though...

Jess Jones S2 did no favors for her inaugral season, though. According to the numbers on IMDB, S2 dropped to a 7.95 (with an average of 1920 reviews per episode.) Only the 11th episode managed to score better overall than any other episode versus S1. (According to IMDB)

Let's look at Rotten Tomatoes... Audience S1- 89% (6754 reviews on average per show)
Tomatometer: 93% (75 reviews)

Audience S2- 67% (1627 reviews on average per show)
Tomatometer: 83% (78 reviews)

So... the critics didn't hate the shift from season 1 to season 2 of Jessica Jones nearly as much as the masses.

Moving onto Luke Cage... in S1 he averaged an overall score on IMDB of 8.18 with a total of 35,757 reviews. (That averages to 2751 reviews per episode. I can break down that statistic for you later if you so desire.) In S2, the overall score drops to 7.7 with 1199 reviews. My personal opinion... Cage S2 was better than S1. Apparently people don't agree with me. Funny thing about Cage S2... the highest rated episode according to IMDB is episode 10... where one Danny Rand shows up. More on him in just a moment, though.

Rottentomatoes gave Cage S1 a 76% (with 2357 reviews) audience score, and a 94% tomatometer score. S2 got a 69% (with 986 reviews) audience score with a 84% tomatometer score. I personally don't agree with either of those. Cage S1 was great... S2 was way better. (Especially when he took over the club and stood in front of the portrait of Biggie with the crown...)

And now... Danny. Other than the final entry in this long ass post that my drunk ass is typing... Danny has been my favorite so far. (As far as the individual entries go... there is a reason I skipped The Defenders. Also, a reason I'm skipping The Punisher completely... 1) he doesn't really fit into this universe according to the writers/directors/Jon Bernthal and 2) this shit is way too long already) Danny Rand is a man without a home. He thought he knew what life was, and then it was ripped away from him and he had to learn a new life. However... he always knew there was something calling him back to a previous life. A life he <somewhat> remembered... but was never quite sure about. The end of S2 left us wondering why he had the guns summoning the "iron fist"...however, some data points....

Iron Fist S1 got a 7.82 on IMDB. Pretty acceptable, yet it was only out of an average of 2651 reviews. S2 (even though it was soooo much better) only got an average of 7.80 on IMDB with only 890 votes. Iron Fist has constantly been criticized as the worst show. Yet, according to RottenTomatoes, it's the only show to actually rise among the critics from S1 to S2. Rotten Tomato scores are S1: 19%; S2: 57%.


With all this said... um... typed... I always thought the Netflix shows were doing tremendous ratings despite some of their flaws. Especially the sequels that always seemed to come harder than the original season. Maybe these numbers are the real reason they're getting killed off and not just my belief it's all a big ordeal to get them to the Disney streaming service.

PS.... The Punisher dropped in RT, but slightly rose in IMDB from S1 to S2. But according to my stats, the reviews are way less than 1/4 of S1 thus far. (Which makes sense seeing as how S2 just came out a week or so ago.)

Prime Time
02-20-2019, 10:40 AM
Sounds like you guys were expecting it but the last Marvel shows on Netflix have officially been cancelled.

meandi
02-20-2019, 10:58 AM
Odd that they went ahead and announced Jess Jones being cancelled, though. Theyíve been waiting about 6-8 weeks after releasing the latest season to announce the cancellations. Almost had me worried that S3 of JJ was just being scrapped entirely, but itís apparently still on, and according to Kristen Ritter, sheís very excited for everybody to see how it ends.

comfortablynumb
02-20-2019, 03:01 PM
Maybe they will give it an actual ending since they announced it beforehand.


Also, the initial reviews for Captain Marvel seem to be fantastic.

meandi
02-20-2019, 03:31 PM
Could be. If Iím thinking correctly, this is the only show that had not started filming anything before all the cuts started coming, so the show runners wouldíve had proper notice to write a conclusive ending to the series instead of leaving things on a cliffhanger ending like the other shows did.

meandi
03-06-2019, 01:21 AM
So... my kid just got back from seeing a pre-screen of Captain Marvel, yeah? She absolutely raved about it. (I had actually read a review, and the author gave it a C-... when I mentioned that to the kid, she said ďThat person is stupid and doesnít know what heís talking about. Granted, the kid is only 16, and I think she has a crush on Brie Larson...) Canít wait to see it in the next couple of weeks, though.

Powder
03-06-2019, 09:12 AM
I have my tickets for Friday with my daughters!

mizfan
03-06-2019, 01:23 PM
Definitely excited for it, gonna make a point to see it this weekend.

Heisenberg
03-07-2019, 12:20 AM
I wouldn’t say it’s a hard pass but it’s a pass for me. Not one I’d actively go see again. Nor probably ever see again for that matter. I saw it for the fact the Mrs wanted to see it when I easily could have not bothered with it because I knew it would give more questions than answers and the questions you had weren’t going to be answered without it being far fetched and leaving you with more questions at the end of the day. Low and behold it’s what you got and I can’t say I was surprised.

Mystic
03-07-2019, 04:42 PM
Hardest of passes for me.

But I don't watch any of these movies, so it won't matter.

I do hope one day, when deeply bored, I can dive deep into them. That's how I like to live. Miss 5-10 years of what everyone else is sharing, but then have the best damn week/month imaginable when the time is just right.

Samuel 'Plan
03-09-2019, 06:50 AM
The familiar Marvel formula is really on show with Captain Marvel - in many ways, it watches like a Phase I film and, honestly, probably would have been better placed there chronologically too. It's because of its nature as a prequel in a franchise of 20+ movies, 10+ years of storytelling now on the verge of hitting its climax that it's difficult as an adult move-goer to shake off the feeling it only exists to set up Captain Marvel herself as something of a plot device for Avengers: Endgame. There's a strange sense of it being retrofitted into continuity, or at the very least uncharacteristically (for the MCU) rushed into the universe ready in time for the big payoff that now looms.

It's solidly entertaining, like all Marvel movies are, but it by no means knocked my socks off. Standard MCU is standard MCU, so I imagine most people's enjoyment of it will hinge heavily on how into the MCU they are!

Powder
03-09-2019, 11:29 AM
And weirdly there are some continuity errors...not consistent with the MCU, but there are some nice call backs.

The Stan Lee cameo is a cameo of a cameo. Well played.

comfortablynumb
03-09-2019, 12:07 PM
My main reason for going to see it was for an Endgame post-credits set up. The movie itself was OK. The de-aging of Fury was flawless.

Powder
03-10-2019, 05:10 PM
No spoilers here, but Marvel usually does a really good job on their continuity, but there were some that I could NOT get past about Captain Marvel.

1. In the first MCU movie, Iron Man, there was a small running joke:

Agent Phil Coulson: Strategic Homeland Intervention, Enforcement and Logistics Division.
Tony Stark: Whew! God, you really need a new name for that.
Agent Phil Coulson: Yeah, I hear that a lot.

Now why is this important? Well because at Tony's press conference at the end of the movie, Coulson refers to the organization as S.H.I.E.L.D. for the first time. And in CM, Fury only refers to S.H.I.E.L.D. as S.H.I.E.L.D. It doesn't make sense that S.H.I.E.L.D. wouldn't call itself S.H.I.E.L.D. until 13 years later.

2. In Avengers, Fury explain the Phase 2 weapons away like this:

Bruce Banner: I'd like to know why SHIELD is using the Tesseract to build weapons of mass destruction.
Nick Fury: Because of him!
[points at Thor]
Thor: Me?
Nick Fury: Last year, Earth had a visit from another planet that had a grudge match that leveled a small town. We learned that only are we not alone, but we are hopelessly, hilariously outgunned.
Thor: My people want nothing but peace with your planet!
Nick Fury: But you're not the only ones out there, are you? And you're not the only threat. The world is filling up with people that can't be matched, that can't be controlled!

Again, why is this important? Because it clearly states that S.H.I.E.L.D. only started using the tesseract to make weapons as a response to Thor and Loki and the Destroyer, but Fury KNEW about aliens, and beings from other planets for YEARS, and that they out technologied us back in the 90s. AND with S.H.I.E.L.D. having the tesseract for all that time, why wouldn't they start to make weapons back then? Also, why wouldn't they already know about aliens?

I know, I'm nitpicking, but that is what we do. Also, it kind of makes plot holes in the MCU, that they usually are really good at avoiding.

JacobWrestledGod
03-11-2019, 02:14 AM
I am caught up with all the political stuff that Brie spouted, on top of the very generic trailer I will give this a very solid hard pass. Even the “positive” reviews seem to complain about Brie’s wooden acting, and also I have no reason to care about this Super hero in the grand scheme of Inifinity War.

comfortablynumb
03-11-2019, 02:40 AM
I am very entertained by the boycott by many hurt men over Brie Larson’s comments. I’m talking about the Facebook comments and trolling of ratings sites, and no comments in this thread.

Unfortunately for those sensitive men, the boycott had zero impact on box office: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/box-office-captain-marvel-opens-historic-153m-us-455m-globally-1193585

Prime Time
03-11-2019, 04:19 AM
Oh yeah, cinema was rammed when I saw it, in one of many 2d screenings early Sunday evening (so not exactly peak time).

Powder
03-11-2019, 09:44 AM
It's a Marvel movie that leads directly into Endgame, there is no way that this would not have been super successful monetarily.

Patrons like me and many, many others are not complaining about Brie's politics or acting, but about the lack of "big feel" to the movie. The movie served its purpose and was a good origin story, but it was just Meh. It ranks up there with Thor, Thor 2, and Iron Man 2 and 3. All movies that were ok, not great, but did their jobs.

The movie lacked something, I cannot truly put my finger on what, it just didn't stack up with the rest of the MCU.


I know, as fan, we all know what will happen. Thanos gets beat, and the Snap gets undone. BUT prior to Captain marvel, there is a trailer for Spiderman Far From Home, which obviously has Spidey and also has Fury in it. BUT why have the trailer prior to Endgame? Yes we all know what will happen, but at least keep up the kayfabe.

comfortablynumb
03-11-2019, 11:36 AM
Sony released the trailer. Marvel did not want them to but it’s Sony’s property. I agree Sony should have waited.

I loved the Stan Lee page flip btw.

Powder
03-11-2019, 11:39 AM
Are you referring to his cameo? if so, there is a huge mistake/problem with it. I do not want to spoil what happens, but it makes a HUGE paradox in the MCU.


Also, there is another major continuity problem with Captain Marvel and it has to deal with Nick Fury. No spoilers, so I'll wait to discuss until about a week or so.

comfortablynumb
03-11-2019, 01:12 PM
I’m talking about the usual Marvel page flip at the beginning of every movie being changed in this one.

https://media.giphy.com/media/9EmM3VQKnyeDS/giphy.gif

Powder
03-11-2019, 02:14 PM
yes it did. It was a nice tribute to Stan.

meandi
03-14-2019, 10:18 AM
I know a few of you have said youíre avoiding End Game trailers so as to go in completely fresh and blind, but for those that care, a new trailer dropped.

comfortablynumb
03-14-2019, 02:19 PM
So little footage but so much to takeaway. Nebula in the same costume as the others (did it look like a quantum realm-type suit?) is weird and awesome. The Thor-Captain Marvel exchange was great too and hints at something big that many predicted. Looks fantastic.

Whatever it takes.

meandi
03-14-2019, 03:29 PM
Loved the visual of what looks like Scott making it back out of the quantum realm and looking on in utter confusion with the missing signs on the telephone pole. (Almost reminds me of episode 1 of TWD when Rick comes out of his coma.) And it seems like a bit of time has lapsed since IW. Iím really hoping we get a quick explanation of the time jump. Just an ďI went in on such and such date... whatís the date now?

anonymous
03-15-2019, 04:51 PM
James Gunn being rehired is excellent news, if not just because it livens up the 3rd film and makes me believe it’ll happen. I didn’t before. GOTG3 is possible the Marvel film I’m most looking forward to.

meandi
03-15-2019, 05:07 PM
Thatís awesome

Gooner
03-19-2019, 12:22 PM
Watched Captain Marvel over the weekend. I enjoyed it for what it's worth. It did feel like a phase one film, especially in it's structure. But I suspect that was what the film producers were going for.

I think the biggest takeaway for me was portraying Captain Marvel as a genuine match for Thanos, and seemingly more powerful than the other heroes. It does beg the question why she hadn't been paged before (like say, in the first Avengers movie, with Loki and his men invading Earth!!??), but if you ignore that particular aspect, I think you can forgive the small other plot holes that are present (there's not many, but like Powder said earlier, they can be a little annoying looking back).

Very excited for Avengers: Endgame now. Just a month to go!

Oh, and Goose the Cat rules.

mizfan
03-19-2019, 03:00 PM
Everything between Samuel L Jackson and the cat was pure gold. Actually everything with Jackson in general, really enjoyed his performance. I liked the movie as well, not the best Marvel ever but it was very fun and had some great visuals, and a not entirely predictable plot to boot.

Powder
03-19-2019, 09:32 PM
So now that Captain Marvel has been out for over 2 weekends, I want to discuss the plot hole that deals with Nick Fury.

SPOILERS BELOW. Skip if you do not want to read.










So we find out that Goose the cat is what causes Fury's scars and loss of eye. That was a running joke within the movie about how Fury's eye gets injured, but it ends up being Goose the cat.

In The Winter Soldier, Fury takes off his patch and states:


Last time I trusted someone, I lost an eye. Look, I didn't want you doing anything you weren't comfortable with.

Clearly implying that he lost his eye when he trusted Alexander Pierce.

Why would Fury make that implication, if he knew that he lost the eye by the scratch Goose who is really a Flerkin, where was the distrust? Just because he liked the cat, and the cat had his back and saved him, Goose was a cat, and scratched Fury. There really was no distrust. There have been many, many articles on this exact situation throughout the net, entertainment sites, forums etc. And all they do is rationalize, that Fury trusted Goose, and Goose made him lose the eye.

Please. To quote Deadpool, that is just lazy writing.

In Winter Soldier, it is clearly implied that Fury lost his eye by trusting Pierce, or at least someone much closer to Fury. But to have Fury like the cat only for it to scratch his eye out? That is really bad.

Marvel (the company) has to know that the fans pay attention to their universe that they created, and to retcon that is just awful. It would have made much more sense, or at least a better explanation if Captain Marvel somehow made Fury lose the eye by shooting him out of anger or by accident, but at the end of the day she still gives Fury the beeper. Then when she leaves, Fury is still pissed at her, but says something along the lines of..."I am still not fully sure I can trust you again, but I will call only if absolutely necessary."

That one line would explain why Fury doesn't call Marvel during the Avengers, because he still doesn't trust her, and during Ultron, he knows that the Avengers beat an alien force, so they could most likely take care of Ultron.

But in Infinity War, when Fury hears over the radio about Aliens in Wakanda, and people start disintegrating, he takes out the beeper. That one slight change to the movie and Fury quote would completely explain everything away.

meandi
03-19-2019, 11:26 PM
Iíve watched Winter Soldier, like, a bazillion times. (My fav film other than Civil War...) Fury never once made it clear that him losing his eye was due to Pierce. It was a throw-away line that was just a MacGuffin in order for him to pull up the patch.

Gooner
03-20-2019, 05:51 AM
Yeah I always treated it as more of a throwaway line instead of an implication.

Looking at the scar in Winter Soldier, it does resemble a scratch in a way. It's not one big scar, more like 3 or 4 strands.

The plot hole I meant regarding Fury was a picture in Winter Soldier showing Fury getting his promotion with both eyes intact. Obviously, that seems to now be at odds with Captain Marvel.

Like I said, it's very small things, but they are noticeable.

Powder
03-20-2019, 10:54 AM
Fury's line about his eye is clearly not a throw away line because if it was, there would be no reason for him to say it. Throw away lines are like Hawkeye's in Ultron. "No one would, know." That is highly memorable, but a throw away line as it does not pertain to the plot or anything really, except his jovial frustration.

Fury clearly states that he was betrayed by someone with whom he trusted, and he lost a freaking eye over it! And telling this to Cap was meant so that he would not trust the wrong person or more specifically...to quote SCSA...DTA...Don't trust nobody..

But again the MCU has usually been really good at continuity, and why do not they have someone who is a nerd like us to take into account all of these nuances so that there will not be any loopholes and plot holes.

I mean how hard would it have been to do something like I already stated:


if Captain Marvel somehow made Fury lose the eye by shooting him out of anger or by accident, but at the end of the day she still gives Fury the beeper. Then when she leaves, Fury is still pissed at her, but says something along the lines of..."I am still not fully sure I can trust you again, but I will call only if absolutely necessary."

That one line would explain why Fury doesn't call Marvel during the Avengers, because he still doesn't trust her, and during Ultron, he knows that the Avengers beat an alien force, so they could most likely take care of Ultron.

But in Infinity War, when Fury hears over the radio about Aliens in Wakanda, and people start disintegrating, he takes out the beeper. That one slight change to the movie and Fury quote would completely explain everything away.

This would have kept up the continuity, and explained his eye, and explained why Fury did not call CM until IW. It may not be to everyone's liking, but it closes the plot holes.

Gooner
03-20-2019, 11:20 AM
Well, that's ok. Personally, I disagree. I don't think Fury is solely implying he lost his eye due to trusting Pierce. I interpreted as simply last time he trusted someone, he lost an eye. Sure, didn't expect it to be a cat, but I think that's still a fair and believable quote.

Powder
03-20-2019, 02:43 PM
I will concede that Fury may not have been directly implying that Pierce cost him his eye, but Fury was definitely implying that "the last time I trusted someone, I lost and eye" was someone of relevance. Not a cat which is a disguised Flerkin that got "mad" at him and subsequently took his eye.

I have read a few of the theories and the rationalizations about why the trust was broken between Fury and Goose making his quote technically true, but again, it is just that. Someone who was caught in the middle of a questionable act and rationalizing the act to make it sound good. It is just lazy writing, and went with Goose taking Fury's eye, because that was the running joke of the movie.

The MCU should have handled that much better.


But continuing the plot holes. Besides Steve Rogers, we never find out anyone's age in the MCU, including Phil Coulson, but in Iron Man set in 2008 (present day at the time), Coulson is clearly in his mid 40s (Clark Gregg was 45-46 at the time). The if we jump back 13 years he is around 32-33 and Fury calls him kid and a rookie. Is he really a kid? I know older agents/officers etc refer to the fresh faces as kids, but someone in their 30's? It may have been true that Coulson was a rookie SHIELD agent, but a kid?

meandi
03-20-2019, 04:07 PM
Typically, age doesnít matter when calling someone ďkidĒ. Iím in my mid-30s and I get referred to kid all the time. Granted, I still look like Iím mid-20s, though.

mizfan
03-20-2019, 05:32 PM
Isn't part of Fury's whole deal is that he'll bend the truth to make a point or get what he wants? Hardly seems beyond the pale that he might imply something different about his eye, especially says he does the same sort of thing in Captain Marvel when he lets Coulson think he lost it while being tortured.

JacobWrestledGod
03-21-2019, 01:03 AM
The Nick Fury part is certainly a recon. Having a complex story with Captain Marvel like how powder did it would have added so much more complexity and nuance to the character of both Fury and Marvel. They messed up

Samuel 'Plan
03-25-2019, 09:09 AM
I'm not entirely certain how much it really matters in the long run how Fury lost his eye or told someone he lost his eye, honestly. I don't think they messed up so much as just didn't really feel all that bothered about something I imagine most casual cinema goers won't think twice about. But that said, I found Captain Marvel strikingly ordinary, as indeed are the majority of Marvel's stand-alone flicks. Just my two pennies.

Powder
03-25-2019, 09:53 AM
You are right that Fury's eye really does not matter in the grand scheme of the storytelling, but it could have been the reason or at least part of the reason that Fury never called Captain Marvel prior to Infinity War.

It is like why the Star Wars prequels failed. We all knew the end result, being the Holy Trilogy, and we all expected that we would get all of the reasons of what led to Anakin becoming Vader and what happened with the rise of the Empire. But we got a shitty, and real shitty story of Anakin and a creepy romance with Padme, a completely political movie in TPM, a terrible Clone Wars, Jar Jar Binks, and a waste of the fall of Anakin becoming Vader in ROTS.

Rogue One was amazing in that it really explained the plot hole of the Death Star, gave us the Vader scene that we all wanted in the prequel trilogy, and was like 15 minutes prior to Star Wars. That was how to do a prequel.

Captain Marvel could have went so far with explanations, but it didn't, and it failed in that regard. But the movie was entertaining, but it fell short.

Powder
03-29-2019, 04:10 PM
Marvel geeks. Question:

If Mjolnir is only able to be picked up by those who are worthy, what happens if Hulk or Iron Man pick up Thor who is holding Mjolnir? Would they not be able to lift him?

meandi
03-29-2019, 06:03 PM
Pretty sure they still could. I have a hunch it has to do with the direct touch of Mjolnir. To give an example, if it was just on the ground, I have a feeling it would withstand any blast from Tony or not budge if Hulk tried to kick it. But itís been shown that both guys are able able to blast or punch Thor and send him flying when heís holding it.

Powder
04-17-2019, 10:55 AM
I am going away on a cruise from Sunday 4/21 to Sunday 4/28, which means I am missing opening weekend for Endgame. I got my tickets for Tuesday 4/30, and when I come back, for 2 days I am avoiding the internet so I do not hear one thing.

It is killing me that I can't see it opening weekend.

T.O.
04-18-2019, 03:50 PM
It's alright, I end up defeating Thanos anyways.

Prime Time
04-26-2019, 11:23 AM
Starting a thread where people can discuss the new Marvel film in detail, without blocking up the main MCU thread with a lot of spoiler talk. So, my suggestion is that if you missed the big hint in the title about spoilers and you don't want the movie spoiled, that you click back now before you get any more information.















I assume that those of you who are still here have seen the film, or don't really give a damn about knowing what happens before you go in. So have at it. Discuss the ins and outs in as much detail as you like.

meandi
04-26-2019, 12:34 PM
Seeing it tomorrow at 2pm CST. Will give feedback/review when I get home. Any questions asked of me will get full spoilers if anyone is interested.

comfortablynumb
04-26-2019, 02:23 PM
I just got back from seeing it. It was a great conclusion, very emotional and there’s a lot to process. Don’t think too hard about trying to make logical sense of things though haha.

meandi
04-26-2019, 02:31 PM
So even though the thread title clearly states ďspoilersĒ... are we gonna give it a few days for people to be able to catch it over the weekend before outright discussion? Or is it one of those ďif you canít read the thread title, sucks for youĒ kind of things?

comfortablynumb
04-26-2019, 02:53 PM
I think it’s “if you get spoiled, sucks for you.” That said I’m still going to be vague until others start giving their opinions of the film.

meandi
04-26-2019, 02:56 PM
Alright... Iíll be back in about 28 hours or so.

Samuel 'Plan
04-26-2019, 04:50 PM
I loved it. Absolutely loved it. It's so different to Infinity War, but the two are so intrinsically linked. I said on Twitter to someone, it feels unfair to compare the two and pick a favourite - it's really two halves of a single film and I can't wait to do the double-bill one day, totally uninterrupted. I liked the fact it didn't spend forever trying to explain the 'rules' so to speak, and instead gave some passing recognition to establishing its own internal logic and then got on with telling the story. This was a film about the emotional core, and that was where the focus remained. I was in tears a good five or six times throughout the film, sometimes simply out of the sheer fanboying, sometimes because of feeling totally inspired and sometimes because of having my heart broken. I adored it, and am returning to see it tomorrow morning.

EDIT: For prudence, EXPLICIT SPOILERS BELOW!!






I've revised my truncated pathway through the MCU into five trilogies. What do you guys think?

The Tesseract Trilogy - Captain America: The First Avenger, Captain Marvel, Avengers Assemble

The Stones Trilogy - Thor: The Dark World, Guardians of the Galaxy, Doctor Strange

The Fallout Trilogy - Iron Man 3, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Avengers: Age of Ultron

The Civil War Trilogy - Captain America: Civil War, Spider-Man: Homecoming, Black Panther

The Infinity Trilogy - Thor: Ragnarok, Avengers: Infinity War, Avengers: Endgame

Unfortunately it keeps some of the weaker films in there, but you get all the Stones covered and explained. It also means Avengers is the introduction to Tony Stark, which isn't necessarily the best but does make room for the strongest solo film, Iron Man 3; a film, I think, that also puts the focus on his most defining character trait throughout, which his fear of what's coming from the void.

The idea really is that you're introduced to the MCU and its basic function in the first three films, with the first Infinity Stone introduced, the science-fiction elements there from the very beginning, Nick Fury being a big part of things from the onset and, of course, you get the background for Cap and Danvers both. Danvers disappearing off at the start also makes her absence for the rest of everything feel less like an awkward ret-con too. It also means you know who she is when she returns for Endgame, as there's no other in-movie explanation for her. It does mean introductions to Banner, Thor, Widow, Hawkeye and most importantly Stark are all left in the hands of the first Avengers film, which might seem strange but I think Avengers Assemble, as it was called in the UK, does a good job of introducing them to you if you haven't met them before.

From there, you flesh things out. In the second three, you get Thor fleshed out some more and an awareness of where he heads back to in Endgame, but most importantly you're introduced to three of the other six Infinity Stones and that's really where the focus of this second trilogy is - the Stones. The world-building gets expanded once the central notions of this universe have been introduced in the first trilogy, and the second now leans further into the other-worldliness of the franchise. I'm not a fan of Dark World or Strange, honestly, but the explanations of the Stones are worth the inclusion, and it does mean we're more familiar with Strange and who he is before he gets name-dropped in Winter Soldier; and, of course, prior to his quite important roles in the final two movies.

The third trilogy is meant to explore the human fallout and implications of the events of Avengers Assemble by bringing into focus the vitally important arcs of both Cap and Tony. If there's a failure in introducing Tony with this leaner take on the MCU it's made up for, I think, with the inclusion of his strongest solo film in my opinion (Iron Man 3) and a less distracted focus on his defining trait: his paranoia about what's coming from the void, explored in both his PTSD in IM3 and his plans in AOU. You get the Shield/Hydra stuff in Winter Soldier that gets revisited in Endgame, as well as more development for Cap ready for his decision to go rogue in Civil War, before wrapping the plot thread up in AOU, that also brings us the fifth of the six stones of course. It's also important to get that intro to Vision, and for the references Tony makes at the start of Endgame.

The fourth trilogy is the most fun I think, and is really there for the sake of greater context come Infinity War. Civil War is an obvious inclusion for obvious reasons, furthering the emotional arc of the central relationship between Cap and Tony, which in this version is pretty much at the centre of everything, and their individual arcs too, as well as introducing Spider and Panther and explaining the set-up for IW. Spidey's film is important to ensure the big emotional punches in IW and Endgame remain as effective as they are, while Panther is not only arguably the franchise best so should be included regardless but also helps set up Wakanda for the vital final acts of both IW and Endgame.

Then the final three. Infinity War and Endgame are self-explanatory. I don't like Ragnarok, but I include it because it's referenced in IW and Endgame both, tonally is in keeping more with Thor as he is in the final two movies, and nosedives straight into Infinity War as well. Plus, it's about something the Russos said when describing IW - that if Thor succeeded at the end, it would've been his movie; that he didn't makes it Thanos's movie instead, and I've always seen IW as basically "Thanos: The Movie" rather than an Avengers flick. In that sense, the final trilogy becomes a Thor film, a Thanos film and an Avengers film. I also think every movie Endgame references is now included - but I might be wrong on that front, as I've only seen it once - and as a result all those huge emotional beats in the final two movies will remain totally intact.

Sorry for the column! I posted it here rather than the other thread because, ya know, spoilers.

comfortablynumb
04-27-2019, 01:15 PM
I like your groupings a lot but I think you'd have to include Iron Man 1 somewhere even if it doesn't fit any of those categories. It started everything.


I think my favorite scene from Endgame begins when Thor says "I knew it!"

meandi
04-27-2019, 02:23 PM
If anything, youíd at least need IM 1ís post credit with Fury first approaching Tony thrown in there somewhere I would think.

JacobWrestledGod
04-27-2019, 07:29 PM
As a finale of sorts, it’s the ultimate fan service movie. I enjoyed it.

But as a guy who really love his movies, this movie’s pacing, plot and execution were haphazard at times, the entire boring exposition about how the underlying method works (so much talking when they could have shown us instead), the breaking of the movie’s internal logic etc just took me out of the experience.

Put it this way, it’s like Russos have a series of wonderful personal moments and scene already penned down, then they wrote a entire movie around those scenes, making the underlying plot device and internal logic entirely illogical. I won’t spoil it but the ending in particular was wrong if we believe the way the plot works. Look at Inception for example. It was a movie that shows rather than tells with entirely boring expositions. It also never waver from its internal logic of how dreams work. That’s why I am disappointed in Endgame’s plot.

The worst was the “walking dead” effect. Too many people have “fake-died” so when one of the major characters did seem to die, instead of feeling sad, it was more of a “eh is it real or fake?” So much so that cast have to keep repeating the outcome over and over to get through to the audience that the death is permanent-death. I didn’t like that.

But strangely, I still enjoyed the movie. Because the sentimental aspect of it shines through so brightly. As a marvel fan. Perhaps this final episode is a must watch, but to expect it to be one n the level of the best marvel films, is a no-no.

meandi
04-27-2019, 09:08 PM
Iíd probably put this <just barely> in my top 5 MCU movies (for now). Overall, it was good, but you canít watch it as a stand alone movie unfortunately, and I have a feeling that over time, this may be a downfall for it.

Gooner
04-28-2019, 09:59 AM
I think... I need a few days to compose myself. Suffice to say though that after 22 MCU movies, they freaking nailed the landing.

It's not perfect, but by god is it good.

SirSam
04-28-2019, 10:18 AM
Ok so how comfortable are we with spoilers in the thread at this point?

Gooner
04-28-2019, 11:23 AM
I'd keep it to the spoiler thread for now, there's a separate one for Endgame.

Samuel 'Plan
04-28-2019, 12:31 PM
I like your groupings a lot but I think you'd have to include Iron Man 1 somewhere even if it doesn't fit any of those categories. It started everything.

I still think Iron Man 2 does more in terms of setting up Tony's interaction and relationship with the rest of the MCU, but I totally see why Iron Man 1 would be an important film. I also realised you sort of need at least Ant-Man and the Wasp in there to explain the Quantum Realm and prevent it from feeling like a deus ex machina-style get-out in Endgame, with this reduced number of movies. So what if I push Avengers 1 to where Dark World was, get rid of Dark World entirely and sub in Iron Man 1 where Avengers 1 was. Then thrown in Ant-Man and the Wasp after Infinity War to create that final trilogy, with Endgame as a stand-alone at the end as the climax? Which, let's face it, is pretty much what it was! So the first three becomes more about SHIELD (Captain America: First Avenger, Captain Marvel, Iron Man (or Iron Man 2)), the second is still about the Infinity Stones (Avengers Assemble, Guardians of the Galaxy, Doctor Strange), the third remains unchanged and is about the fallout of the Chitauri invasion and SHIELD's influence (Iron Man 3, Captain America: Winter Soldier, Age of Ultron), the fourth is unchanged as well and about the rift in the Avengers and the emotional stakes for Infinity War (Captain America: Civil War, Spider-Man: Homecoming, Black Panther), and the fifth is the lead in to the big climax setting all the pieces in place for the finale (Thor: Ragnarok, Avengers: Infinity War, Ant-Man and the Wasp) - and then, finally, Endgame itself.


I think my favorite scene from Endgame begins when Thor says "I knew it!"

I also agree on the favourite moment. Man, I marked out hard when the camera panned to Cap and the music kicked in. Cap's probably my favourite Avenger anyway, so it had double the effect!

I have to instinctively disagree on JWG's assertion that the ending breaks the movie's internal logic, and would be interested in hearing more on that front. I'd also point out that Inception has an entire scene in a warehouse where the group do nothing but engage in exposition... Lol. (Inception is a Top Ten OAT for me, I should say).