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Mystic
08-30-2018, 09:49 PM
If there is a thread and I'm missing it, just delete this one.

Otherwise, there is a promotion (not a company, a promotion) that is more compelling with Youtube videos than your favorite wrestling company is with 27 hours of TV per 24 hours of the day.

It is the oldest and the newest. It is the NWA.

Discuss past, present, and future.

Here is one video from a mini-series that should win awards.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-1NIrp8V_4

mizfan
09-01-2018, 10:19 AM
Really dig what Corgan and Lagana are doing with the NWA, and I hope they can keep the momentum going past All In. The NWA has such a rich history, it's been too long since it was consistently relevant! The time is now!

Prime Time
09-14-2018, 05:00 PM
I've seen there's a bit of promotion out there for the rematch between Rhodes and Aldis...

mizfan
09-14-2018, 05:18 PM
I'm not opposed to it, but I'm not sure it wows me either. I know some have turned the corner on him thanks to 10 Pounds of Gold, but I've only seen bits and pieces of that, and what I saw at All In was mixed. He held his own, played his part, but I feel there are so many more dynamic challengers for Cody that would only be enhanced with the help of 10 Pounds adding additional context. If Aldis loses, that's expected, and if he wins, it'll be a big disappointment. I may still check out the show depending on what they book though, I did enjoy All In for the most part and clearly there's some spiritual connection between the two.

XanMan
09-19-2018, 02:25 PM
This is very true. On one hand, Aldis not getting this title shot after the way he has built up the title would probably be seen a bit as a slap in the face, but he could easily be in the mix for the National Title tournament, leaving this particular door open for a new challenger to step forward--Tomohiro Ishii would be my choice--and a possible Aldis rematch down the road. This "mandatory rematch" clause is an albatross that has been hanging over the head of North American promotions for years and should just be done away with.

mizfan
09-19-2018, 05:19 PM
Absolutely, it's often far better to simply skip over it. If the former champion was good enough, he'll be back in the mix down the line.

I've heard Ishii floated as a challenger and I think it's a great idea. Pentagon should be very high on that list. Janela could be a really compelling challenger. Tons of names come to mind, honestly, and if the NWA devotes 10 Pounds of Gold to building up each one in turn I think each title match has the potential to feel really different and special.

XanMan
09-19-2018, 06:30 PM
My understanding is that there are two challengers lined up prior to the anniversary show. Willie Mack in Ring of Honor on September 29 at the post-Death Before Dishonor tv tapings and Delirious on the Jericruise. Now that the Aldis match is set, and assuming Cody retains and does not win the United States Title September 30, he should defend against Ishii at Global Wars and ZSJ at Wrestle Kingdom.

mizfan
09-19-2018, 07:34 PM
Willie Mack is an AWESOME challenger! If anything I think that should be a much bigger deal. Delirious is a guy who probably shouldn't be getting a shot at this point in his career, honestly, but it's on the gimmick cruise so I guess it doesn't feel like a big deal anyway. ZSJ is another awesome contender who should be very high on the list. I hope they push as hard as possible to get the hottest guys from all over the world with the most hype lined up as challengers and then extra-hype them up to the moon one by one.

Benjamin Button
10-22-2018, 01:01 AM
Aldi's is champ and won it at the asylum of all places.. Overall, a step down IMO... Doesn't mean NWA is counted out...just a real step down...the NWA Title and Cody were good for each other but I'm guessing he wants something more.

mizfan
10-22-2018, 02:01 PM
Yikes, didn't see that coming. Aldis seems to have improved in some ways but I can't say I have much interest in him as the face of the new NWA. Kind of dampens my spirit. Was the show any good at least? Saw that Sam Shaw of all people made it to the finals of the National title tournament, which also isn't a great sign to me. Didn't check the full results yet but really praying Willie Mack walked out with the belt.

Team Farrell
10-22-2018, 02:49 PM
Saw that Sam Shaw of all people made it to the finals of the National title tournament, which also isn't a great sign to me. Didn't check the full results yet but really praying Willie Mack walked out with the belt.

Prefacing this with the fact that I haven't had an opportunity to watch the show yet.

One of the biggest criticisms that I saw of the event is that the roster is thinner than a lot of big shows. But I don't think that's a problem. They aren't using all the "top indy guys" out there, nor would I want them to. If NWA 70 is just going to be All In Part 2, which is just ROH plus a few guys, what's the point of putting it on?

I, for one, am thrilled to see them use Cody-Aldis II to get people to tune in, while filling the rest of the show with the likes of Sam Shaw -- guys who could be considered "their" guys -- to get them some spotlight, when they could have tried to load the show with the ROH/PWG roster.

mizfan
10-22-2018, 03:00 PM
Sorry, should have been more specific. Got nothing against them using lesser known talent, I actually think that's cool, though I do hope they mix in bigger indy names as well.

I just don't especially like Sam Shaw and thought the other three guys in his match were better choices. I haven't seen him in a couple years so maybe he'd change my mind now.

Prime Time
10-22-2018, 03:06 PM
I think I'll have to give him a chance. I was so against the angle he was involved in at the time that it'd be a tough ask to get a fair assessment of him. Going to try and come to it with a clean slate.

I've heard a lot of good stuff about Aldis from people who followed his reign closely and as I mentioned before he looked great when I saw him, and could see him being a good fit for the NWA idea. So I'm more cautiously optimistic than anything.

Team Farrell
10-22-2018, 03:24 PM
I just don't especially like Sam Shaw and thought the other three guys in his match were better choices. I haven't seen him in a couple years so maybe he'd change my mind now.

Oh, I'm with you on that. I'll have to watch the match, but the most I remember about Shaw was his terrible tattoos that made his arms look completely blacked out.

XanMan
11-01-2018, 02:09 PM
And after watching the show, that's all I remember about him, too. I really think they didn't have the matches sorted correctly; to my mind the final should have been Mike Parrow vs. Willie Mack.

mizfan
11-01-2018, 02:43 PM
Feels like they didn't impress too many people with the latest show. Based on what I've seen, the NWA revival has lost momentum in a big way. Hope they can get it back again, was super excited for a minute there.

XanMan
11-01-2018, 02:52 PM
I thought it was a good show, but with some questionable booking decisions. I hope they do more on the NWA Youtube channel to build things in future events.

Mystic
01-02-2019, 11:24 PM
Props to NWA and RoH for bringing back the Crockett Cup this April. It will be in my home state of North Carolina, and, if I still lived there, I would be front row for it. I actually lost interest in both Cody and NWA when I realized they weren't really working together longterm, but both parties are stepping it up recently.

This news is both exciting and makes me sad, as I know there will never be another time in wrestling (for me) that comes close to what I grew up on (80s-90s). For god sakes, when you have raw talent like Sting and Luger who can win these things, and complete masters like Arn and Tully to put them over. What a time to be a fan. Again, props to NWA, with an assist from RoH, for bringing it back.

mizfan
01-03-2019, 01:17 AM
Really hoping they go all out to pick up as many top teams as they can for the Crockett Cup. I think potentially it could be great but only if they get the right people involved. Really like the idea of it, interested in the execution.

Mystic
02-10-2019, 12:15 PM
POTENTIAL SPOILERS. I'M NOT SURE WHAT IS AND ISN'T WITH NWA

SO JUST A WARNING

IN CASE.

......


...




I never planned to order another NWA event, but, with the announcement of the NWA title match for Crockett Cup, if I can order this show I will.

Nick Aldis vs. Marty Scurll.

It's in my backyard too. If I were still in North Carolina, I'd attend.

Apparently Nick asked Marty to be his partner in the Crockett Cup, but Marty responded by challenging for the title. It might be overkill, but it could have been pretty could if he had agreed to be his partner in exchange for a title match on the same night.

Alas. Marty is a heavyweight goddammit. NWA says so.

Quote from a former 10 Lbs. of Gold episode: "We don't have to create a promotion. We just have to tell stories based around this legacy."

Proud of all the promotions out there telling great stories.

Mystic
04-26-2019, 10:38 PM
Just ordered Crockett Cup through Fite TV. Even in his tries and losses, Marty Scurrl is a draw to me.

mizfan
04-26-2019, 11:49 PM
I've been kind of dismissive of the NWA lately but I've got to admit, I'm feeling kind of excited about this show. It's got potential, at the very least!

Mystic
04-27-2019, 08:05 AM
Going to say some weird things then I'll go away to continue watching footage for the next episode of All About All Elite (which we're recording in 2 hours). I don't know if I will like ANYTHING except the main event of Crockett Cup. I don't know if it will feel too Ring of Honor to me. If they can tell a story, maybe I will LOVE this one night tournament, but:

I woke up this morning thinking about a life decision I have to make that is SO grown up. Yesterday it got so intense that a friend and I were talking about maybe the anxiety we feel about making ANY decision has nothing to do with the decision. Maybe we're old enough now that every choice is a hint that we are going to die, that this decision could be the one that locks us in to one place, one position, one group of people, one way of being, for the rest of our lives. I woke up this morning with the weight of my world on my shoulders in ways I won't bore you with but in ways that I don't have enough shoulders for the diversity of weights on them.

And then I was watching this video for the show today:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE_0ajuxJuo

And it's not raining here, but for one second, listening to Marty, I had an overwhelming felt sense that it was raining here. I also had a felt sense that my younger brother was here, that we were children, and we were waiting for a WCW PPV that we had sacrificed whatever we had to sacrifice to get our parents to order.

For one second, I was a kid, right in the midst of life decisions that make me feel closer to death than ever being a child again.

Then I sat back and said, "I am in the morning of a day where I am waiting on an NWA PPV to start."

Waiting on an NWA PPV to start.

It is not a joke to say that I've lived long enough to watch every culture and fandom I have pass me by. JRPGs got so visually-focused that they lost me a long time ago. Pro wrestling mostly died to me twenty years ago. Rap music will never again be for me what it was with New York rappers in the 90s.

And I will never be who I used to be.

But, you know what?

I'm living in a day where I am waiting on an NWA PPV to start.

And if that can happen in my life in 2019?

Who the hell knows what else might be possible.

mizfan
04-27-2019, 04:14 PM
That's quite a trip, isn't it?

Preview for tonight!

Nick Aldis (c) vs. Marty Scurll Singles match for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship
-Much has been said about this one. Talking it over on the show today really helped me see it in the best light. Really interested to see how good this one can be, even if the outcome feels assured.

Willie Mack (c) vs. Colt Cabana Singles match for the NWA National Championship
-We didn't really talk about this one at all but I'm excited for it. I'm a big fan of Mack and Colt is an indy staple, I think they'll have a really fun match.

Allysin Kay vs. Santana Garrett Singles match for the vacant NWA Women's Championship
-No matter how many times I see Santana, I still find her kind of average. She keeps getting booked though, so maybe I'll see something. I do like Allysin a fair bit, so I'm optimistic of rhtis one as well.

Wild Card Tag Team Battle Royal Battle Royal for the 8th and final berth in the Crockett Cup tournament.
-So far the only team I recognize this is from The Boys. Not sure who I want to root for here, but hopefully I can see someone else I recognize (there's no shortage of top notch teams to book on the cheap) and get excited for.

The Briscoe Brothers (Jay Briscoe and Mark Briscoe) vs. The Rock 'n' Roll Express (Ricky Morton and Robert Gibson) Crockett Cup first round tag team match
-Two legendary teams in their way. The Briscoes have a legacy in ROH and may get favored because of it, but honestly their act doesn't excite me as much as it used to. RnR are there for nostalgia purposes to some extent, but I did hear they actually had a very fun match with the Lucha Bros over Wrestlemania weekend, so who knows?

Villain Enterprises (Brody King and PCO) vs. Satoshi Kojima and Yuji Nagata Crockett Cup first round tag team match
-Brody & PCO are the team I would most like to see win this thing, love both of them. Kojima and Nagata are both old timers from New Japan but Nagata, at least, is still extremely awesome, so could be lots of fun here.

Flip Gordon and Bandido vs. Guerrero Maya Jr. and Stuka Jr. Crockett Cup first round tag team match
-Poor Bandido. I just can't get into Flip so I can't root for the team. Maya and Stuka are up from CMLL and I actually really like both, so I really hope they get the win here.

The War Kings (Crimson and Jax Dane) vs. Wild Card Battle Royal winners
-Can't say I'm a fan of Crimson, and I don't really know Dane. This one is a question mark to me but off the top of my head I don't know if I'm too excited.

Overall the card looks very interesting, so I'll be checking it out!

Mystic
04-27-2019, 08:34 PM
We can debate if NWA is camera ready, but I'm not sure they are talent ready.

Cult Icon
04-27-2019, 09:01 PM
Did I really just watch Bram and some no name beat Bandido and Flip Gordon? Lame.

Mystic
04-27-2019, 09:05 PM
They've been pushing those dudes all night long. Pretty sure Madusa was fucked up, and the women's replacement title looked worse than what they gave Luger when Flair took off.

I paid my money to support Marty Scurll, but it would have been better for NWA that I not yet see them than see them before they are ready to be seen.

Mystic
04-27-2019, 10:34 PM
Main event was a MOTY candidate for me.

They carried themselves like champions. Smart. Purposeful. Damn near a holy affair between unholy men.

Team Farrell
04-30-2019, 12:28 PM
Crockett Cup was a pretty good show, and I'd agree with your assessment of the main event. The women's match wasn't my favourite, though.

Mystic
04-30-2019, 01:01 PM
Crockett Cup was a pretty good show, and I'd agree with your assessment of the main event. The women's match wasn't my favourite, though.

I can go with pretty good show. It ticked up a notch for me when the winners were revealed. Thinking for most of the night that I was watching a Crockett Cup (with the wonderful past winners) to see Madusa's team win had put me in a very bad space concerning the show. Mizfan and I will be talking about it on our show this coming weekend, so I need to think about it more, but it definitely ticked up with the winners. And again, the main event was NWA class to me. It not only felt like a top shelf title match, but I'm already looking forward to watching it again.

Team Farrell
04-30-2019, 01:24 PM
There was a part of me really hoping to get Rock & Roll vs Flip and Bandito, but I knew that reasonably wasn't going to happen.

I enjoy watching these big NWA shows, but my problem is that they don't have a TV show to advance angles, so you get a little bit too much of it on these shows. I wonder if a slight change to 10 Pounds of Gold could accomplish that goal.

Specifically, I could have done without a five minute James Storm promo. Just having him come out and either shake Colt's hand or superkick him while the commentators give a bit of a rundown of where he's at in a concise way, with the follow up promo happening on the YouTube show might have worked. That way you have your next match set for those who don't watch the show, and the promo and full reasoning for those who do.

I just found that segment ground the show to a halt. Especially on a show with Medusa's abortion of a promo and a Nikita/Magnum interview.

Mystic
04-30-2019, 07:47 PM
I would have rather seen the match you suggest. RnR could still get around, so that would have been better for me. I wasn't too invested in watching them bleed at that age. There's a weird line between nostalgia and making me sad, and I fear the NWA did the latter a few times with the older acts.

You may get what you're asking for with more coverage. Was just listening to a Billy Corgan interview post Crockett Cup. He was talking wanting to move to episodic TV soon, whether that be on Honor Club or YouTube.

He also said he thinks the AEW/Tony Khan economy might be a false economy, so he's not necessarily willing to put in that kind of money for folks WWE releases and so forth. Said AEW might prove otherwise, but until then, he views the kind of spending going on right now as a false economy.

I don't think he needs to spend like Tony Khan, but I do think he needs to do more to stand out and be a compelling brand. Beyond good or bad matches or moments, I'm not sure how much of the show had me saying, "I've got to see more of [this person or angle] no matter where it goes next."

Wrestling is booming, and there are a lot of options. It's not about how you draw me to one show. It's about how you keep me from show to show and make me want to associate with you and your brand as much or more as all the brands around you.

That's a hell of a mountain for every company to climb right now. It's becoming a viewer's market.

Prime Time
05-04-2019, 09:34 AM
So I haven't seen the whole show or anything, but given that I'd heard a bit of buzz I made a point of finally checking out the 10lbs of gold show leading to the Scurll vs Aldis match, and then I was able to source the match itself.

Got a lot out of it, not going to lie. Presentation right up my street. Loved the video especially, and really liked the match for the most part, too.

There you go, a positive post about wrestling in 2019 from me. Wonders never cease.

Benjamin Button
08-26-2019, 01:56 PM
Looks like they're doing their studio show in the heart of Georgia. They're going for the in your face studio wrestling of the 70s and 80s. Color be interested to see this idea executed.

PEN15v2
08-26-2019, 02:00 PM
I'm curious to see how this goes. Their roster talent level is questionable, but I feel that way about MLW, and love that promotion. It depends on how it's executed.

Benjamin Button
08-26-2019, 02:27 PM
The talent is a situation but your right that presentation can make some difference. I like Aldis as champ. Building it just around people earning NWA title shots against him with the title matches feeling specail would do something for me.

mizfan
08-26-2019, 03:37 PM
I'll probably give it a shot, at the very least! The good presentation with Aldis so far has earned them that much in my eyes.

Benjamin Button
09-16-2019, 12:29 AM
Just watched AJ vs Dusty for the NWA Title. It was pretty emotional and good for Dusty's age at the time! Imagine if TNA had given him the duke? Nothing they were doing was making much sense anyway, so imagine...Dusty would be a 4 time NWA champion!

Here's a telling moment in more ways than one. Russo was booking, at the time. He was AJ's manager and drunk. Dusty'd been working AJ's leg the entire bout, when AJ did get the advantage on Dusty the drunk Russo told AJ to go to the top. DON WEST said because Russo told AJ to do something high risk that Russo didn't know what he was doing.

Russo, in his retarded booking, knew better than to have a wrestler with a hurt leg go to the top. DON WEST knew better. But, today, these 5 star wrestlers would climb right up there and do a 450.


Just a thought

Mystic
09-16-2019, 12:10 PM
I know a lot of people wouldn't be happy with an old-timer winning the belt, but if you are going to go so far as to have the match it should at least be with consideration of having any opponent win. Dusty, done right, could have been a memorable space in time.

More than anything, what I want from NWA is a product that feels unlike anything else on TV. A little more grit, weight, edge, whatever.

There have been shows in genres I don't even like, even in children's shows, where having a single set that takes you to a particular feeling made me a fan. That is what I want from them. When I'm in their old school set in GA, I want to feel like I'm in a place not like anything else in this world.

mizfan
09-16-2019, 02:33 PM
The idea of Dusty winning one last NWA title in TNA, now that's an intriguing one... it certainly wouldn't have been the worst thing they did in that era, by a large margin!

Love the point about going up to the top rope when hurt being an obvious mistake a child could notice. This is what repels me from supposed "best in the world" wrestlers like Seth Rollins and Kenny Omega, who are awful about that kind of thing. That's not to say I don't still enjoy them, but it's such a gaping flaw at times that I can't at all understand the "greatest of all time" buzz.

A product on TV that stands out from the rest would be very welcome. Don't let me down, NWA!

Mystic
09-17-2019, 12:30 PM
They've set up the main event for the first studio show. They seem to at least understand that something of value should be on the line from eveyone involved.

https://lordsofpain.net/tim-storm-returns-to-confront-nwa-champion-nick-aldis/

Benjamin Button
09-17-2019, 12:52 PM
Riveting story. I like it.

mizfan
09-17-2019, 01:48 PM
I really only know Tim Storm by reputation but I liked the idea of an older guy, a kind of never was, getting one last shot at his own corner of glory. I think it's a great chance to showcase the legwork they've already done with this guy in 10 Pounds of Gold too. Has Aldis/Drake happened yet? Gotta figure that's their biggest possible match right now, curious when they'll deliver it.

Mystic
09-17-2019, 06:55 PM
I don't think they've had Drake up yet. By framing Storm as sort of the catalyst, if not father, of this current story-driven era of NWA, it could be really nice to pay tribute and to move past him both in the inaugural episode of the studio NWA era.

mizfan
09-18-2019, 10:42 AM
Thought you meant James Storm for a moment... not overly thrilled that he's on board but I suppose he serves some purpose. Personally I'm more interested in Tim Storm as an unknown though.

Benjamin Button
09-23-2019, 02:30 PM
Looks like kingston's in the NWA, Mizfan. Big opportunity for him to shine in that studio environment.

Big opportunity for the NWA to have another great personality

mizfan
09-23-2019, 07:32 PM
Holy crap, that's a great signing! My interest in NWA just went from solid to skyrocketing.

Mystic
09-24-2019, 03:24 PM
I haven't had time to watch the video yet (though I can't wait to) but I got the impression he hinted he wasn't coming alone.

Not sure though if that's accurate. Just saw some comments where people were hoping certain people might be coming in, through association.

Or maybe I'm making this all up. Honestly don't know.

Either way, good for the NWA.

Cult Icon
09-25-2019, 10:59 AM
That's a great signing, both because Eddie Kingston is great and because Eddie Kingston is the only thing that's had me remotely interested in the NWA after that terrible tag tournament show they had earlier this year.

mizfan
09-25-2019, 11:02 AM
He definitely said he wasn't coming alone... really curious who that might be. Homicide is a likely option, they've been associated on and off for years now, and that'd be a solid choice. More recently he's also been working with David Starr, which would be an amazing get for the NWA, even on a temporary basis. Whoever it is, I'm really excited to see. The more they let Kingston speak, the more interested I'll be!

EDIT: Terrible is way, way too strong for me there, Cult! I had some complaints, to be sure, but I thought there was a lot of good on that show too. Scurll/Magnus, Mack/Cabana, and pretty much everything with PCO and Brody King was a hit for me!

Mystic
09-25-2019, 04:03 PM
Crockett Cup left me with mixed feelings. Doc was there live and loved it. I thought Aldis/Scurll was a match of the year candidate, and I liked the winners of the tournament. It was a lack of talent that was the issue (which makes a 1-hour studio probably more fitting). For instance, one bracket of the tournament simply sucked. If Aldis and Scurll had teamed up and won a bracket, they might have had something. But it's lack of talent, a slow burn, and a twenty year plan that makes it comes out half cooked right now.

I'm looking forward to watching the most recent video. If folks leave the office before I do, I will check it out.

mizfan
09-26-2019, 10:18 AM
Oh for sure, the Royce Isaacs/Tom Latimer bracket mostly sucked, no doubt.

Mystic
09-26-2019, 01:45 PM
A pretty good promo from James Storm. I would keep on letting him feel pushed out of the main picture. They have talked about being rough around the edges and I love the WWF 1997 feeling that no matter who is the champion and who is the chosen challenger, there are always a few sharks circling regardless.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kqhXp3Xqac

mizfan
09-26-2019, 03:22 PM
I struggle to invest in James Storm in 2019, but I would have said the same thing about Aldis this time last year. I'll have to give this a watch when I get the chance!

Mystic
09-27-2019, 10:08 AM
I always found Storm to be impressive, especially at first glance. What he can maintain has always been the issue to me. It's partly not about the athletes and it partly is. Better they are the better it *could* be but not necessarily. How they plug them in is just as important. I'd like to see some folks misbehaving since this is the NWA's biggest moment in a long time. I'd also like to see how a buttoned-down, prefers a controlled environment, Nick Aldis handles it. I may watch one week and not watch again, but at this moment, it's the only show I'm even checking out in October. AEW has completely lost me in my absence, and they will only get me back if they prove they are watchable in my absence. I'm used to no pro wrestling in my life, though, so we shall see how it goes for all the many promotions experiencing change (almost all of them). Exciting times, regardless.

PEN15v2
09-27-2019, 12:02 PM
I recently downloaded all the 2002 TNA weekly PPVs, and am slowly going through them. James Storm and Chris Harris were pushed from day one, but I had totally forgotten how they were essentially a kayfabe thrown together team, with Harris hating working with Storm with his extreme redneck side, feeling it was cheesy and silly. It's kind of funny, especially seeing Storm nearly 20 years later as a singles star, the Cowboy gimmick, and a prime guy in NWA.

mizfan
09-27-2019, 01:01 PM
I gradually turned against Storm in that period of watching Impact from 2013 to 2017... I saw a lot of rambling, barking promos that didn't go anywhere, and a lot of angles and matches he seemed to phone in quite blatantly. Perhaps it was the environment or the booking, so I'll give him a chance to recapture me!

Pen, I'm going through those same shows! The thrown together gimmick is quickly abandoned but it is a fun origin story while it lasts. AMW was definitely a highlight of those early days in my eyes. I'm always struck by how much Storm has changed visually in that time, I know 17 years is a long time but it's sometimes hard for me to see how it's the same guy between the body type and the beard.

PEN15v2
09-27-2019, 01:04 PM
Miz, did you watch TNA live at the time in 2002? I am enjoying it much more on these replays than I remember when I watched back in the day.

mizfan
09-27-2019, 04:42 PM
Nah, I didn't even get into WWE until 2003 and TNA was only a distant blip on my radar for many years, so a lot of it's new to me. Some of it actually is quite fun, though there's some pretty glaring crap in there as well. Thankful to have progressed beyond the Dupp Cup.

PEN15v2
09-28-2019, 05:15 PM
Bruce as Miss TNA?

mizfan
09-30-2019, 10:35 AM
Yeah, the whole Bruce "evil gay crossdresser" gimmick is pretty awful. It lived a lot longer than other bad gimmicks too, like the murdering masturbating midget or the guys dressed like genitals.

PEN15v2
09-30-2019, 10:48 AM
Looks like the new NWA show will be on social media and youtube. Not as exciting as it could have been, but I also believe it's wise to start small, and grow. Especially with the current landscape. ROH, MLW, and Impact are already going to struggle as it is, and adding NWA into that same market of pre-taped studio shows won't be easy.

mizfan
09-30-2019, 10:52 AM
Youtube works for me, since I cut the cord with cable at this rate it'll be easier for me to check this show out than Dynamite!

Benjamin Button
09-30-2019, 01:52 PM
I work 2nd shift. I'll take an internet show over a cable show any day.

Also, no commercials

Mystic
10-06-2019, 05:28 PM
I will be watching their YouTube at 6:05 on Tuesday night. I don't know if they will keep me, but they've got me on night one as a viewer with nothing but goodwill.

Also, yes to this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UACj7IWum6o

Mystic
10-07-2019, 07:38 PM
One of the great characters in any story is the setting. Within the word setting, set. The set unveiled in the early minutes of this video makes me want to cry.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwW7H-LVKZ8

Benjamin Button
10-08-2019, 01:43 AM
Cant wait for it. Love the logo. Love the setting

Mystic
10-08-2019, 07:30 PM
I enjoyed it. Good promos throughout: James Storm, the Dawsons, others.

Good main event. The Nick Aldis I need, however, is the one who delivered the final line of the night.

Prime Time
10-08-2019, 07:38 PM
Only wrestling I have watched since June, but decided to watch again next week and am now watching some Mid-Atlantic from 1982.

Says it all, I guess.

PEN15v2
10-08-2019, 11:34 PM
In the commercial break before the James Storm VS Josephus match, was that the real "it's still real to me" guy?

And was the ref for that match to classic LOP black ref?

Tim Storm looks like a character from Ren and Stimpy.

SirSam
10-09-2019, 04:27 AM
I really enjoyed the show.

The matches were short and really fun, the promos were especially good and the crowd was super into it which certainly gave a great atmosphere. I also loved the spontaneity of the studio setting, to me that was the x-factor.

I'll say this too, there are very few better wrestlers they could have got than Aldis to be their champion. The way he carries himself is perfect for what they are going for, he really gets it done well in the ring and he consistently surprises me with how good his promos are. I wonder who, if anyone they are planning to build up to be his next big rival.

I'll defs be watching again next week.

I never watched 80s NWA, how does this match up?

Prime Time
10-09-2019, 05:25 AM
In terms of the presentation it probably matches up pretty well with the Mid-Atlantic/Crockett Promotions stuff that is it's main inspiration.

Worth remembering that if you watch their shows in the 1980s, you might see Flair, Arn, Tully, Magnum TA, Dusty, The Rock N'Roll, The Midnights.... so there's a talent deficit for the new show. I'm not sure that kind of talent in that quantity even exists now (unless you're looking at it purely from an athletic standpoint, which I don't), and even if they did exist the odds are most would be working for some of the bigger fish.

Cult Icon
10-09-2019, 11:09 AM
It was significantly better than the Crockett Cup show from a few months ago. I thought Eli Drake vs. Caleb Konley was a strong match, Storm vs. Aldis told a good story and all the promos were really well done, especially from Aldis, Storm and Eddie Kingston (who is a superstar waiting to happen if NWA wants to get behind him). Being an hour long I think really helped this show too; it was quick, to the point and was easy to watch. I don't know if I'll watch it every week and I've chuckled several times at people acting like "this is real wrestling!" but it was a strong show and it definitely has its place.

Team Farrell
10-09-2019, 11:22 AM
Powerrrrrrrrrrrrr is exactly the wrestling I want. They stripped out all the "pro wrestling should just be fun, man" indyriffic stuff that makes me want to tear my hair out, and just presented a pro wrestling show. The in-ring wrestling was still quite modern, and the promos were good (though I'm excited to see later ones because on his podcast Cornette pointed out that most were good). I really hope they keep any bad ones in.

Now, I'm not sure how they'll translate a YouTube show into sold out buildings and FITE buys for big shows, but damn did I like that show. I will probably be a weekly viewer.

And an hour! An hour! I could watch it over my lunch break if I wanted. I could watch it while dinner is cooking. I could watch it without having to do a day of pre-planning.

LK3185
10-09-2019, 11:39 AM
I really enjoyed it. Its not over produced, getting over the characters with promos and short matches. I think being a youtube show helps for the social media age instead of being on a shit channel people have to look for. This isn’t going to be epic wrestling matches and that’s perfect cause you’re not gonna draw that demo when other promotions do that better but i think they can grow the brand with real characters better than most.

There’s also no stench on it like impact

Team Farrell
10-09-2019, 11:47 AM
I have a feeling that they're going to put a governor on the weekly matches so that the ones on PPV mean more.

LK3185
10-09-2019, 11:53 AM
Yeah,and with the way they had multiple ad breaks promoting feuds or when back in ATL they can really build to thei big shows effectively. I wasnt really into the NWA brand when it just felt like ROH was doing them a favor and now itfeels like NWA can hit some growth away from ROH

PEN15v2
10-09-2019, 12:23 PM
I've chuckled several times at people acting like "this is real wrestling!"

Well, it is. Obviously the people saying this are classic, or old school fans, and no promotion relates to that audience better than what we saw on Powerr. If these people feel WWE is a male soap opera/Sports entertainment, and AEW is spotty gymnast performances, then NWA is closer to "wrassling"

Cult Icon
10-09-2019, 01:05 PM
There is no such thing as one true form of "real wrestling." There's endless amounts of styles out there and you can have your favorite, but if you're going to go around acting like one thing is the true form of wrestling and the rest is meaningless drivel then I'm not going to take you seriously. Would you guys take me seriously if I went around saying lucha libre is the only style that matters? It's my favorite and I love it to death, but I'm not going to go around doing it and I'm not going to not check out other styles just because they aren't lucha (like I said, I watched this NWA show and I really liked it). That's why I chuckled. It's not a widespread thing, but I've seen plenty of people acting like this is going to save wrestling. As if the other styles of wrestling were killing it.

Team Farrell
10-09-2019, 01:26 PM
There is no such thing as one true form of "real wrestling." There's endless amounts of styles out there and you can have your favorite, but if you're going to go around acting like one thing is the true form of wrestling and the rest is meaningless drivel then I'm not going to take you seriously. Would you guys take me seriously if I went around saying lucha libre is the only style that matters? It's my favorite and I love it to death, but I'm not going to go around doing it and I'm not going to not check out other styles just because they aren't lucha (like I said, I watched this NWA show and I really liked it). That's why I chuckled. It's not a widespread thing, but I've seen plenty of people acting like this is going to save wrestling. As if the other styles of wrestling were killing it.

There are plenty of people who do believe that, though. You give all types of wrestling a chance, but there are a LOT of fans of pro wrestling who have become alienated by what wrestling has become over the past 20+ years and the "pro wrestling should just be fun, man" indy stuff that has somewhat overtaken the industry.

Most of those people don't care about being "taken seriously" as wrestling fans. They don't even really care about talking wrestling. They just want the type of wrestling that they miss.

I try to sell indy wrestling every single day of my life. And every single day I hear from people who talk about how much they loved wrestling and how they used to watch it all the time, or they used to go to the matches ever week, "back when wrestling was good".

These aren't people that want to be taken seriously or give everything a chance. They're people that want to be given a serious product that doesn't have hokey stuff.

LK3185
10-09-2019, 01:57 PM
That doesn’t mean though that other styles of wrestling are killing the business or that one serious style would save it, just that some people of have a preference. The most popular era in wrestling wasn't Crockett studio wrestling after all.

Would also mention that the young wrestling fan doesn’t really know what serious wrestling is because they’ve never been exposed to it unless they looked for it..either its the indy heavy work rate style, some of the BTE comedy or WWE’s male soap stuff that doesn’t even lean into that as much anymore.

Hopefully NWA helps in the regard but with experience on twitter, young people reject others telling them what real wrestling is. WWE diehards dont even give other promotions a chance because of the perception of gate keeping.


Forget all this, The ROCK put over the NWA show on twitter today. That was insane

PEN15v2
10-09-2019, 03:06 PM
I think the term "real wrestling" is what's throwing this off. What is real wrestling to Cult is obviously not the same for me. I truly despise anything that looks too choreographed, and inauthentic. It's not fun. It's fucking dumb. I don't watch Olympic gymnastics, so I don't care for flips and dives. But, that is the common theme for modern wrestling. So "real wrestling" is found elsewhere. For these people, real wrestling is NWA.

I wouldn't chuckle at that.I'm just glad they've found a wrestling product that works for them. Lots of options right now, but many are vastly different. And I know I get frustrated with the stuff I expect better from.

mizfan
10-09-2019, 04:43 PM
Didn't get a chance to watch this yet but I'm going to make a point to do so. There's a lot I like in wrestling right now but I also really like the idea of something old school like this.

Team Farrell
10-09-2019, 05:13 PM
That doesn’t mean though that other styles of wrestling are killing the business or that one serious style would save it, just that some people of have a preference. The most popular era in wrestling wasn't Crockett studio wrestling after all.
I don't think it's necessarily "killing the business". Some people, some fans, will view it as that but most of those types of people don't care about "the business", they care about seeing a type of wrestling that they feel they can respect. "Back when wrestling was good." It's a statement I hear, if not daily, then weekly.

The thing is, a lot of the indy stuff that's over with indy fans (and admittedly, many of the people filling an arena for an AEW show) is only over with them.

I don't want to get too into the weeds, but I guess I will. Basically a lot of the stuff that these types of people -- and I'll count myself amongst them in many cases -- roll their eyes or get angry at are things that a generation of guys did to amuse themselves.

There was a time where an average indy show, not a super indy or one with a lot of names, could pretty easily put 1,500 people into a building. That wasn't very long ago either. I sat in a crowd and watched the generation of guys that broke me in doing just that mere years before I started. But then as number started declining somewhat, guys would go out in front of the people who were left, the most hardcore of hardcore fans, and do things to pop themselves and the rest of the boys.

A guy I know worked a show probably 15 years ago. Only about 300 people showed up to a town that used to do three times that, so because "nobody was there", they had a "reverse match" that started with both guys hitting finishes right off the bat end ended with a submission off a headlock takeover. This is the kind of stuff that grew in to invisible hand grenades, hands in pockets, rocking your opponent to sleep.

This kind of stuff started to catch on and get more and more commonplace as "nobody showed up", but the more it was done, the more it drove away a generation, or even just a type, of fan that wanted to see professional wrestling taken seriously both by the office and the performers.

Those people were driven completely away. They didn't turn to Impact or RoH as an alternative, they aren't watching AEW (many don't even know it exists), they aren't casually watching WWE. They legitimately don't think that wrestling is "good" anymore because there's a generation of performers that just wants it to be fun and a wink at the camera.

And that style is fine. But that style drove away a lot of people. A lot of those people that tell me that their grandpa use to take them to the matches every week "when wrestling was good", or that their grandma used to plop herself down in front of the TV every single week to watch Stampede "when wrestling was good."

They don't feel that wrestling is taken seriously anymore, and thus "isn't good".

I don't know what that base is. I don't think it's a 1.4 million people in TNT. But I think it's enough that with the proper exposure it could sustain a company to pay a roster of guys a full time salary and if the sport continues to be treated with respect, I think that audience could grow and possibly do so quite rapidly.

They're never going to draw a certain fanbase. They're probably not going to draw a lot of the teenagers or high spot fans. But I think that they could reignite the grandpa bringing his grandkids to the matches ever week. It's my preferred presentation of pro wrestling, the one that I try my best to present, and honestly the one that I think will appeal to the widest audience of people if they take the time to watch it.

Would also mention that the young wrestling fan doesn’t really know what serious wrestling is because they’ve never been exposed to it unless they looked for it..either its the indy heavy work rate style, some of the BTE comedy or WWE’s male soap stuff that doesn’t even lean into that as much anymore.
I don't think that NWA is worried about drawing a younger fan or a fan that is into that more workrate-focused, indy style stuff. They're appealing to an older fan. But even so, I think that if you were just dipping your toe into wrestling outside of WWE, NWA is a more appealing alternative than say Impact with Sami Callihan heavily featured and intergender wrestling happening.

LK3185
10-09-2019, 06:28 PM
I understand coach but its going to be a slow growth for NWA because of the way they present things and the reach they have isn't that large at the moment so every fan that likes it imo has to be pushing this as something to watch and not be dismissive of other styles.. I know you say that the people you talk to apparently just want something that they deem serious but they have to be able to see it first and if they're not watching then how are they gonna find it? By word of mouth.. and I do think because its on Youtube that's where the younger viewer comes in. Maybe the longterm goal for Corgan is to get this brand on TV where its still more accessible.

I just feel like to do that you're gonna need that younger fan that is very into social media and saying something like "this is real wrestling' turns people off.

And I think a younger fan looking for something different than WWE, all the wrestling heavy shows would enjoy NWA because it is different to this era... but they have to feel welcome at least from other fans.

PEN15v2
10-09-2019, 06:30 PM
Or, there could be a show for each style?

LK3185
10-09-2019, 06:37 PM
Well I didn't say NWA had to conform and adapt with other styles. Frankly, they don't really have the workers for a workrate heavy show and they likely can't afford much more talent as it is. My issue is more with fans who feel the need to preach about things like real wrestling (not anyone here ) and instead be welcoming and supportive of everyone enjoying wrestling..

I've heard WWE fans bitch about how AEW fans get on their nerves so they don't even bother to try the damn show. its stupid and childish.

there's a very clique type subset culture with fans and wrestling that i find annoying.

Benjamin Button
10-10-2019, 02:28 AM
Man, I just completed this show and dont know where to start. I feel like Im dreaming something awesome. No music, nothing fancy, nothing pretty just characters, grit, and people feeling like their fighting. I loved it. Im already wanting to see what they will do next. Liked Aldis heel antics at the end. Liked James Storm a lot, only the super kick has never fit him imo. But it is what it is.

This is my personal favorite show right now.

To Prime Time, I watched that year of Mid Atlantic on the network. To me, the most I ever enjoyed SGT Slaughter. Jake Roberts shows such psychology even as a young baby face. He knows how to make the little things matter...



Back to this show..


Definitely got a good old territory vibe from this show, but on top of that the colors were beautiful to me. I dont really care about the following it gets as long as it can keep doing what its doing and keep a cast at least as good as what they had here, Im in.

Prime Time
10-10-2019, 05:32 AM
Stayed out of this one for the general harmony but will just say these posts read as if you're pretty much describing me. And I'll just leave that one there.

And Ben, that angle with Sarge's Cobra Clutch Challenge and 'Blackjack Mulligan Jr' was good TV. Love that they call him 'Bob Slaughter' a few times too, like it's not a gimmick name and it's just a fluke that he happens to be a Sergeant who has the surname Slaughter. That tickled me.


But yeah, genuinely looking forward to a wrestling show and there's still more than half the week to go. Been years since that has happened.

Oliver
10-10-2019, 08:37 AM
Based on the descriptions here, and having not tried the weekly show out, this sounds a lot like the wrestling I discovered once I switched off from main roster WWE and was instead exploring older stuff on the Network. Sounds like it has an older school vibe in the wrestling than perhaps might be present on an AEW or NXT show.

On paper, if that's accurate, this is certainly something that appeals. My only question is - where's the draw? There's Thunder Rosa who I certainly want to see regularly, and Eddie Kingston, but that's it really. I'm all for being pulled in by the vibe initially, but is anybody there going to make me go 'wow' and want to see them again? Stevens, Aldis, Storm - these are guys that have actively turned me off rather than on during their appearances for other promotions.

I probably need to get over that myself as much as anything, and I'm simply pondering whether anything I see other than the set and the style will make me go 'ooh, what's XXXXX going to do next week?'

Prime Time
10-10-2019, 10:47 AM
Funny, because I see all those guys as potential draws, either because of what they've been doing for a while now (Aldis) or because they've probably got a point to prove after a few week years and I want to see if there'll be anything there. But each of the three you name drop there are more interesting to me than anyone on AEW not named Jericho or Cody at this point, though that's because a whole heap of that roster has - to borrow your phrase - actively turned me off watching 'em.

So I guess the question isn't where's the draw, it's where's the draw for you, because personally, I see plenty. And I'd probably stake my money that these are the kind of guys that'll play better in this environment than Flippy McGee or whoever the fuck, no matter how many twelve star matches they've had in PWG.

EDIT: Recently passed 250,000 views. Not bad at all. Not set the world alight numbers but certainly gives you cause for optimism.

Oliver
10-10-2019, 11:10 AM
In fairness, I'm possibly tarring them with a TNA brush. Because boy howdy, when you're tarred with that brush you're very, very tarred.

Clean slate for everyone when I finally get to look at this!

Prime Time
10-10-2019, 11:24 AM
Yeah, I wouldn't overdo that. I don't really think back to Aldis in Impact nymore, because of what he's done in the last couple of years. On Storm, I saw much more good than bad in his run there, so I'm optimistic that was a problem of motivation more than anything (though I'm not saying that's all Ok or anything, but if you were unmotivated in Impact after, say, mid-2013, I'd get it). Stevens.... y'know, I just saw that whole thing as a hospital pass. I don't think you can infer anything about his run there at all.

The only person they've picked up that their TNA run kinda counts against for me is Ken Anderson, who I've got no real interest in seeing myself. Still, that's only one guy, and he's not an instant channel changer like... well, quite a lot of people nowadays.

LK3185
10-10-2019, 01:00 PM
I really enjoy the show but with this format, I'm hoping to see new people that i can find that do really good promos... people like Ricky Starks i don't really know are apart of this.. most of the others I know and will be dependable.. Also as much as this show feels like a love letter to the 80s they do have to have women on it that shine. The debut episode didn't really go there.

Benjamin Button
10-10-2019, 02:20 PM
It will have women, but why does it have to? Why cant there be some all male promotions, all female, or anything else? There's like 10 promotions we can watch. Do they all have to have a womens division? This is coming from a person who enjoys some women's wrestling.

PEN15v2
10-10-2019, 02:58 PM
You're not wrong, Ben. But one thing NWA presented hard on the first episode and in the videos hyping Powerr up was how the women's title has such history. So the women's division should reflect that same sort of respect.

LK3185
10-10-2019, 03:17 PM
It doesn't have to per se but if the NWA wants to grow (and they do ) Then having Women on the show doing good things can only help. I wasn't watching the show like damn this needs a women's match. With this format, i'm not concerned about good matches however if you're going to do it, do it right.

mizfan
10-11-2019, 03:51 PM
I'm for mixing the women in, as long as the talent is there. Allysin Kay is my 2nd favorite NWA title holder right now, after Aldis, and prior to his career resurrection she would have been my first!

Haven't watched the main event yet but I watched the rest of the show, and overall I really like the aesthetic and the format. I'm definitely feeling inclined to watch on, even if like Oliver I'm less than crazy about some of the roster.

One thing did bother me, and that was the James Storm/Jocephus thing. I've rarely seen Jocephus and I was curious to see what he could do, but the way Storm made an absolute clown out of him makes me think I'll never be able to take him seriously as a threat to anyone again. It's one thing to lose a match quickly, but the weird baby thumb sucking thing had me cringing. This for the sake of James Storm? I get that he's still able to bark out promos with a lot of energy, but in the ring he hasn't really done much to catch the eye since the Roode feud back in 2012. Perhaps he can win me back over like Aldis did, but for me it wasn't a good start.

Prime Time
10-11-2019, 06:03 PM
Didn't bother me, to be honest. Possibly because I was lulled into that good space by that point where you're just in the rhythm of it, but it did more for Storm's finish than harm to Jocephus.

I mean, sure, I now think that he ain't going to beat Storm without cheating - but their entire interaction had pretty much told me that, with his running away from the fight in the first instance. That bit just told me that Storm can end it in one shot with that Super kick, to the point that he can do what he wants with you.

Mystic
10-13-2019, 09:24 PM
I find myself with a buzz of excitement for the next show to get here. I don't feel that often anymore, and it counts for more than any justification I could give. Told my brother today that NWA feels a little like when you were in school and the teacher would leave the classroom during class. A little chaotic but in a good way.

mizfan
10-14-2019, 10:50 AM
In a world where a straight shooting old man like Tim Storm is driven to break the rules, anything could happen!

PEN15v2
10-14-2019, 11:38 AM
I don't feel as you do Mystic, but there's no doubt that NWA Power is a very unique wrestling show in 2019. If this show has a checkmark next to everything on your personal list of wrestling preferences, it completely makes sense for you to be excited.

Prime Time
10-14-2019, 11:42 AM
I find myself with a buzz of excitement for the next show to get here.

This bit is the gist of something I put on twitter.

Mystic
10-14-2019, 12:44 PM
Miz - That guy threw ethics out but could not get the 3! I'm starting to think the 10 lbs of Gold is at fault. It sits back while these folks do all manners of evil to arrive at it. Never says a word.

Pen - I'm definitely not an "everybody should feel what I'm feeling" guy. If it's MLW, great. If it's another company, wonderful. For my experience with NWA so far, it's partly the checkmark thing for me, but it's also just the absurdity of the existence of this company. It doesn't seem like a 2019 project, and I'm grateful for that. Also the ease of YT and 1 hour format. It's just what I need right now.

Prime - It's an interesting ride. I'm already wondering how Nick Aldis will behave in that little studio should there come a day when he's not the champion. I imagine it's going to be uncomfortable programming. Also hoping the women's division will be appealing to me, as it seems to be upfront this coming week.

LK3185
10-14-2019, 02:40 PM
As someone i saw mention on twitter, just the existence of this NWA show is great because it’s different enough to its current era that other wrestlers could excel there where they wouldn’t in other promotions. Now that likely means taking a paycut..certainly so if you’re in WWE. i think it would be a good idea if NWA can partner up with other promotions and have like guest spots down the line.

mizfan
10-14-2019, 04:53 PM
The fact that it's easily digestible counts for a lot, which comes down to both the short run time and the presentation (so far). The fact that it has a distinct identity helps as well and makes it stand out.

LK3185
10-15-2019, 01:10 PM
Dave Lagana (the creative force along with Corgon behind NWA) has a nice interview with the post wrestling folks giving insight into their vision. One thing i took note of is they really want to have things happening fast soto keep peopleís attention. Youíre not going to see 8 min dominating squash matches for example.

Also this isnt seen as profitable right now but they have many other ideas and its helping with growth to be on the platforms they are

Even mentioned talking to WWE way back when Corgon got the brand but this Corgonís deal, something he never really got at impact.

If you cant talk you wont be on this show very often if at all

Mentioned telling Mark Heny and Bully Ray they would do great in this environment

PEN15v2
10-15-2019, 01:50 PM
Dave Lagana (the creative force along with Corgon behind NWA) has a nice interview with the post wrestling folks giving insight into their vision. One thing i took note of is they really want to have things happening fast soto keep people’s attention. You’re not going to see 8 min dominating squash matches for example.

Also this isnt seen as profitable right now but they have many other ideas and its helping with growth to be on the platforms they are

Even mentioned talking to WWE way back when Corgon got the brand but this Corgon’s deal, something he never really got at impact.

If you cant talk you wont be on this show very often if at all

Mentioned telling Mark Heny and Bully Ray they would do great in this environment

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: This is how all wrestling TV should book. Shorter TV matches that build up to the PPVs. I know, everything is changing, and WWE makes more for their TV contracts than PPVs, so it won't happen. But, right now, the best WWE have done is maybe deliver an 8 out of 10 PPV rating, with an average TV rating of 6 out of 10. Everything is stagnant because there's no flow.

NWA is starting with this format, but obviously will eventually put on a show with longer matches. Maybe not a PPV, but some sort of special event. And on that show, the matches will be longer and be of better quality. It just makes sense this way.

LK3185
10-15-2019, 01:56 PM
Lagana did mention having special events (PPVs) coming, I believe there's one in November that will air on Fite.

mizfan
10-15-2019, 05:15 PM
More short squash matches is something I'm all in favor of, save the long ones for a special occasion. I do worry about the long term viability of the show if they already know they can't survive in the current format, but hopefully they can figure out something realistic.

Bully Ray would kill in this environment but considering he seems entrenched with ROH it doesn't seem too likely.

LK3185
10-15-2019, 05:27 PM
Well it cant be the main format i think is the point at least where they are at as a company. They had a little bit of buzz in last two years but doing a studio show with only 250 people paid to see it obviously not making money off that. This a building block to a bigger plan


NWA next PPV is December 14. Which I think lines up with all the Powerrr eps they've taped so far.

Good show this week, didn't love it like last week but its still building to things.

Mystic
10-15-2019, 08:00 PM
Another great show. I am always on the wrong side of the narrative, but I believe Kamille has the right to remain silent and "Journalist Joe" can kick rocks.

Prime Time
10-15-2019, 08:01 PM
Think they're on a charm offensive - Thunder Rosa and someone on the music production side liked one of my tweets almost immediately, and have seen a lot of engagement with the audience from a bunch of different people involved with them.

Enjoyed it again. The time just zips past in a way it hasn't for more than a generation.

mizfan
10-16-2019, 10:30 AM
Ended up busy yesterday so I've only seen the first bit so far, the Aron Stevens promo. Not sure how I felt about it, I liked Damien Sandow a fair bit during his WWE run but when he went to Impact and toned the gimmick way down, he was terribly bland. The promo seemed a bit awkward and I came away with the impression that his new gimmick is pretending he doesn't have a gimmick but he actually does, perhaps? Interested to see how it'll play out, I'm rooting for the guy but I wasn't convinced. Hopefully I'll have time for the rest of the show tonight.

PEN15v2
10-16-2019, 10:34 AM
I felt like he came into the promo as his babyface Impact character, but slowly brought out the Damian Sandow character and was turning heel as he went. Almost like Miz/Rock, in that he was using his superiority from his recent acting success to flaunt.

mizfan
10-16-2019, 10:52 AM
I can see that possibility, for sure. If that's the way they want to go I'm for it, hope they lean into it much harder as they go along.

Team Farrell
10-16-2019, 11:19 AM
I liked the show last night as a whole, it was very enjoyable. There are still a few tiny kinks to work out, but it's coming. For instance (and I'm not sure if anyone else noticed) I think Allysin Kay vs Ashley Vox was taped to be the main event but they changed their minds and swapped it with the tag match, because they were announced with "TV Time Remaining". I also expected the Aldis interview to be longer and peppered throughout the show just based on the way they cued it at the beginning saying that it would air in its entirety during the body of the show, or something along those lines. Probably because when he did the V/O, he didn't know where it was going to be placed. Then there was the toss out saying that James Storm was "next" but they came back with a Tim Storm package. The segment was James Storm's segment and they got to him after a quick package, but it just left that impression for a split second like they didn't know which Storm was coming up.

Little things like that will be tightened up, I'm sure. But on week two, it's still my favourite wrestling show. It's so easy to watch and so enjoyable.

The 18' ring with a slightly lower ropes is a great idea for a studio show. It makes everyone look so much bigger.


Well it cant be the main format i think is the point at least where they are at as a company. They had a little bit of buzz in last two years but doing a studio show with only 250 people paid to see it obviously not making money off that. This a building block to a bigger plan

NWA next PPV is December 14. Which I think lines up with all the Powerrr eps they've taped so far.

Good show this week, didn't love it like last week but its still building to things.
I don't think that they're trying to make money off of their studio show. This is the classic territory strategy. You tape your studio show each week, and that show pushes the matches on the tour loop to get people into the building. In this case, they don't have a tour loop yet (I'll bet it's to come) so they're going to start pushing to the PPV.

It's still only the second week in to the show. But eventually they'll probably get to pushing matches for that weekend's live events and pushing what's coming up on the PPV. Since they have basically a month before they need to start promoting their PPV, I'd expect the next two weeks will be spend establishing the stars, and then the following four will be spent building them toward their Dec. 14 matches.

PEN15v2
10-16-2019, 11:25 AM
Speaking of "tour loop", do you think they'll start pushing house show cards on Powerr? I'm not sure why it crossed my mind, but it would be interesting to have Powerr announce a house show in Florida or somewhere else in Georgia. Then, they announce the matches on Powerr, but don't record it. I know WWE does house shows without cameras already, but I wonder if a non-WWE brand could create interest in an event without cameras form their online presence alone.

Benjamin Button
10-16-2019, 02:10 PM
Really liking the ego of cornette's broadcast partner...liked the show...the Aldis bit is good episodic stuff.

mizfan
10-16-2019, 02:35 PM
I wonder if the house show strategy would work in 2019 like it has in the past. WWE is the only company that still does them off the top of my head, and from all I hear attendance is very low. But that could have more to WWE and less to do with the idea of house shows.

Prime Time
10-16-2019, 03:06 PM
In the days where house shows did well, they either weren't treated as second class, or the industry was so hot that everyone wanted to see wrestling whenever they could.

Once you don't have either of those in place it's not a surprise people don't wanna see WWE house shows.

That said, I'm not sure it's the best idea for anyone else to run that many shows. Feels like a gamble.

Team Farrell
10-16-2019, 03:16 PM
I'm not talking your typical "house show" though. Right through to Hogan's time, the general model was that the build and all of the "fuck you/fuck you" took place on TV, but you had to pay to see the resolution. And until the PPV business really took off, that "pay to see the resolution" was the weekly/bi-weekly/monthly (depending on where you lived) live show.

That's what I'm talking about. They build angles, and you have to be there live to see the matches. Obviously most things are going to culminate on pay per view, otherwise you're limiting your audience quite a bit, but in a traditional model the main event for this weekend's live show loop would be The Dawsons vs Wildcard for the NWA World Tag Team Championships. Or if you're building to that on PPV you do the Wildcard vs King/Homicide rematch with a "there must be a winner" stipulation.

Use the short nature of TV matches to sell your live event matches. You use that "TV Time Remaining" time limit to have someone like Colt Cabana get within a hair of recapturing the NWA World Heavyweight Championship at the 10 minute mark but time expired, so on this weekend's loop it's Colt vs Aldis with no time limit or with a 60 minute time limit. The bell sounds, the announcers are signing off and Cornette's shouting at the top of his lungs that he just received word that because of the result, this weekend in Athens and Columbus and Augusta, we're going to have the rematch with a 60 minute time limit!

That's using your weekly television product to drive your live events. And it's doing so in such a way that if you didn't see this week's show, you're not confused by what's happening. You're still getting a match that would make sense to see.

As of now, nobody is doing that. Why go to an ROH live event, unless you really want to support the product, if you can watch the exact same thing on TV from the comfort of your home? Why go to the WWE house show if the matches on Raw are just as good and just as long?

T.O.
10-16-2019, 06:23 PM
That's part of my confusion over people wanting WWE to televise house shows on the network. It's just redundant to a point.

I haven't watched all of NWA Powerrr, but what I have seen, I've enjoyed. I dug Aldis as Magnus in TNA and Kamille is a piece of work.

LK3185
10-16-2019, 07:14 PM
Also, I think alot of the house shows now are just tune ups to what you see on TV anyway. Working with the same people, doing the same rough finish you'll see on the PPV.

PEN15v2
10-16-2019, 07:25 PM
LK, that's why I feel a smaller company is in the best position to change that house show perception. Especially NWA's current setup: since we aren't getting competitive matches on TV, there's a draw to see more action than we catch on Powerrr.

Oliver
10-17-2019, 08:29 AM
That's part of my confusion over people wanting WWE to televise house shows on the network. It's just redundant to a point.

Yeah, I was like this with that 'last ever The Shield match' show WWE did this year. It was nothing more than a house show with a little cherry on the top, and basically complete fluff. It was pretty much pointless, and even the main event was a soft rehash of the Fastlane main.

Mystic
10-17-2019, 09:41 PM
Billy Corgan really does have a 20-year plan. I don't know if successes (or lack thereof) will speed it or slow it, but he's definitely working on a patient plan. That used to bother me, but now it's what I like most about the NWA.

Aldis has his own plan, which I think is similar and different. He recently talked about how CM Punk could get half the revenue for a match. He has tried to call out Okada at times. I think he wants the NWA on PPV to be like big-fight boxing. It's easy to scoff at that, but he has stood on the same stage as Marty Scurll and Cody Rhodes and been as good as both. That 20-year plan, in my opinion, keeps them humble and optimistic. I've recently rewatched All In, NWA 70, and Crockett Cup, and I'm wondering who is putting on better, more consistent, big PPV matches than Nick Aldis.

Benjamin Button
10-23-2019, 04:06 AM
Watching some nwa...best chill time ever...im having fun watching wrestling..how about that?

How old is mama storm? Bet shes got some gray carpet matching some wild gray drapes

Team Farrell
10-23-2019, 10:51 AM
I believe they said shew was in her 90s.

Another stellar NWA show last night. I like that you can tell whomever's putting it together is having fun ("Up Next: Tim Storm (We Promise!!)"), but still managing to keep it mostly serious. The fake commercials which are exactly what old local commercials would be are incredible.

Here's the amazing thing about this week's NWA show: when it was over, I put on WWE Main Event because I was in the mood to watch more wrestling. Usually when a show ends, I need to take a break for a half hour or whatever to let my brain breathe before more wrestling. But after that show I wanted more.

Prime Time
10-23-2019, 11:02 AM
Yeah, I enjoyed it again. Found it made a few more demands of the audience than the first two weeks but nothing to really complain about. Enjoyed set-up promo early, the main event and the end of the show, in particular.

Mystic
10-23-2019, 12:02 PM
Spoilers from the show mentioned here.




Another stellar NWA show last night. I like that you can tell whomever's putting it together is having fun ("Up Next: Tim Storm (We Promise!!)")

This stood out to me, too. Most promotions I watch begrudge being small and want to pretend they're something else. Each week I count a new way this company is enjoying the process and having fun where they are.

I was hoping Drake was going to betray Storm. Got a lowkey Austin-Bret, 97, potential. But I did like the ugly look from Aldis after, as if this grotesque not-NWA champion had lured a valuable member of the champions' club into a match and not properly looked out for him.

I love it being one hour, too. I always end the show wanting more wrestling, which is something I likely haven't felt for decades now.

PEN15v2
10-23-2019, 12:19 PM
Here's the amazing thing about this week's NWA show: when it was over, I put on WWE Main Event because I was in the mood to watch more wrestling. Usually when a show ends, I need to take a break for a half hour or whatever to let my brain breathe before more wrestling. But after that show I wanted more.

I had a similar experience recently. I tend to marathon or binge watch anything non WWE or AEW right now. Collect 3-4 Impacts or Fusions in a row, and then sit down to watch them all in a day or 2. And it is often because I finish a WWE show, and I'm done. It's not always because the show is bad or put a bad taste in my mouth. That has happened, especially over the last few weeks. But generally it's because WWE main roster shows are draining. 3 hours of Raw is a long time. 4 hour PPVs. Smackdown is only 2 hours, but until a couple of weeks ago, it was the next day after a 3 hour Raw.

NWA makes me want more. NXT used to do the same thing when it was on the WWE Network weekly at 1 hour.

Benjamin Button
10-23-2019, 01:14 PM
That into the fire stays in the head, doesnt it?

Team Farrell
10-23-2019, 01:20 PM
Won't lie, I pumped it up pretty loud when it started playing on SiriusXM last weekend.

Prime Time
10-23-2019, 01:26 PM
Played the whole album the other day.

PEN15v2
10-23-2019, 01:32 PM
I first "discovered" it when watching Nightmare on Elm Street 3. It was a 10-15 second clip through a radio, but I'll have Into the Fire on all my playlists until I die thanks to that clip.

Prime Time
10-29-2019, 10:09 AM
Power is on tonight. Been looking forward to this for days.

Mystic
10-30-2019, 07:37 AM
I looked forward to it all week as well, and it did not disappoint. About to post my reaction in the All About All Elite thread, but basically I'm loving how slowly things are developing but how well. I find the most interesting match down the road to be Aldis-Drake, and I'm loving how Drake is stirring every pot he can get his hand into but then stepping back like he's not doing it. I also love how Aldis is on to him but hasn't fully said it. That slow build to whatever it will be has me fascinated. As I told mizfan, it reminds me of season one of a TV show where everyone in the town has their own secrets and you know they will come out but you don't know when, how, why, or where. Already looking forward to next week.

mizfan
10-30-2019, 05:28 PM
Aldis/Drake definitely feels like something that could be big for them at some point. Hope they stretch it out for a while but they've got to keep interesting people in the mix for Aldis in the meantime. Shane floated the idea to me that they look for an outside challenger for Aldis for the PPV and I think that'd be a smart way to go.

Benjamin Button
10-31-2019, 02:13 AM
I love this NWA but I hate Ricky Starks.

Prime Time
10-31-2019, 06:30 AM
Sadly, I struggled a bit more with this week - if I'm honest and put my cards on the table. Not really NWA's fault, which is why it's sad. It's not like they were the most egregious examples of faults I've ever seen. But I've had some of those things ruined by other people (mainly the WWE, truth be told) doing them so often that you start to notice the artifice, and it took me out of it in places. This is actually a bit of a longstanding fear - that even if you get someone trying to appeal to me, other people fucking up for so long will mean they don't have the room to move.

Still, I'm trying to stay optimistic. I still got more out of it than most other wrestling shows I've seen in years, but less than I did out of the first couple of weeks.

PEN15v2
10-31-2019, 10:52 AM
Can you be more specific of what was bugging you?

Prime Time
10-31-2019, 11:19 AM
I can, though I'm trying not to dwell on it too much so I'll probably be quick about it. And I'm aware that many of these are the sort of things that won't bother other people.

I also don't really want to be negative because I hate when you're trying to be positive about something and people delight in thrusting their negative opinions in your face. But as I've been asked, I will elaborate, but I'm going to say if you don't wanna hear me grumbling then just stop reading now. Frankly, I wouldn't blame anyone who has been enjoying the show from skipping the rest of what I've got to say.
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So, from the start you've got a situation where Nick Aldis basically comes out and makes a match for later in the same show. It's better done than I've seen in a lot of places, but it occurred to me this is something I've been critical of WWE doing and it honestly doesn't make a lot of sense. What, did NWA not have a main event lined up? Do Nick Aldis and James Storm just have the power to make matches without anyone else say so? As I say, as an example of the genre this was well done, but I've seen this so many times over the years that the lack of sense behind it really strikes home now.

Kingston/Homicide vs The Dawsons - partly that this style of wrestling has been ruined for me almost entirely, and it is probably that more than anything else. I just mentally tuned out of it, possibly because enough hasn't been done to 'earn' the stipulation when you're only on show 4. Now, in the name of consistency, I suppose I should say that I've also been critical of other promotions for throwing gimmicks at free TV rather than saving them for when they mean something, and once I'd checked out, the criticism that I've levelled at others did cross my mind.

It'll be a super minor point to some, but to me the drums over Thunder Rosa's bit had exactly the same effect as, say, an invisible camera. A shame, because I enjoyed the run-in, but the second they struck up, I was just mentally out of there again.

That's it, really - as I say, hardly the most egregious things in the world but nowadays I've had so much tanked for me that it doesn't take much to shatter the effect - and I think I've only had a real problem with maybe one segment in the first three shows, so to jump to three in one felt quite different.

PEN15v2
10-31-2019, 11:35 AM
I'll never judge anyone for something that takes them out of a show like that. Things aren't things I've ever noticed, and I can likely forgive now that I'll notice it every single time (THANKS A LOT, PRIME!!!). But I just watched Dynamite, and had very similar feeling about different things.

To me, taking more time to set up a move than to actually perform the move is awful.
Playing to the crowd longer than it takes to do the move is awful.
So Young Bucks and Kenny Omega were awful.

Obviously, different complaints, but same effect on my enjoyment of a wrestling show.

Prime Time
10-31-2019, 11:39 AM
Haha, I did warn you at the start there!

Oh, and I agree with you about the rest. I don't even watch AEW because I know that shit will fuck me off. So I just think, why put yourself through it?

Team Farrell
11-06-2019, 02:09 PM
I managed to watch Power the night it came out finally! I enjoyed the hell out of the show yet again.

Ashley Vox is starting to grow on me. But you can really tell who the pro is when she's standing in the ring with Thunder Rosa. I wonder if the weird unmatching piecemeal gear thing was at the behest of NWA to make her look less like a star than the stars that they're trying to push. If so, then it's a smart decision.

I liked the sort of wild west feeling at the end where we had the main event, but the main event ended before TV time was over and the Dawsons came out ready for a fight.

The only thing that I'm really noticing is that I don't know if they were 100% on when their PPV was going to be when they taped the shows. I would expect that with the finish of that last match, we'd have had an announcement for Into the Fire. There's a lot of crisscrossing angles, and a lot of matches that'll make sense to have on the PPV, but I wonder if they had a firm name or date to build toward at the time of taping.

I imagine that'll get sorted moving forward, but I would like to see a little bit more build to something. Like I said before, traditionally these shows are used to build toward that week's live shows and while NWA doesn't appear to have that infrastructure in place right now, I hope that they get it.

I feel that eight+ weeks is a little long to build with this particular format. I don't know what Into the Fire will cost on FITE (though, I'll likely buy it) but I think that they could pretty easily get away with holding a monthly iPPV event there in the $10 range as a bit of a money maker, with quarterly big iPPV shows shot at a venue in the Atlanta area.

That way you have something a little quicker to build to.

That's my only real complaint is that I feel that this particular style of show is better suited to building to a monthly bigger show rather than over a long period of time.

mizfan
11-06-2019, 05:44 PM
My favorite bit of the show was Aron Stevens. I was rooting hard for him to succeed in TNA but he's a gimmick/character guy, and most of the time he was there they tried to put him over as a no-gimmick guy. He just doesn't have the chops for it. But here you've got so much good stuff, from the crowd interaction to that awful gear to the way he put over Starks in a classic ass-showing heel performance was just perfect.

Really interested in what they're doing with Aldis, at times he comes off as shady but at times he seems like a shining beacon for the company. The best part of it is that it feels very intentional. His pep talk to Tim Storm particularly caught my attention.

Prime Time
11-12-2019, 07:57 PM
I really like what they have done with Stevens, too. I'd say the stuff with Starks is actually going to stick in the memory a lot longer than many things that are technically better performed, but less well constructed.

Didn't have any trouble with the show this week. Breezed through the whole thing. Good Times.

mizfan
11-13-2019, 04:18 PM
Trevor Murdoch is growing on me quick, I liked the presentation for Thunder Rosa (though the drums are a bit much when they pop up randomly), I loved Aron Stevens once again, I liked that the Question Mark squash was a true old school squash, a one sided match made to look one guy look like a big deal, I liked the Cabana/Starks interaction and how organic it felt, and all the intrigue around Aldis/Kamille continues to interest me. I hope they have a good payoff for it, I expect that they will!

On the flip side, I don't really see anything in Marti Belle, though at least they've consigned to her a supporting role. I also don't see much of anything in the extremely nondescript tag champions, and I think putting cleanly over a team with some buzz in short order is a misstep. The only advantages Latimer and Isaacs have, as far as I can tell, is it's very unlikely any other company will bother trying to poach them.

Mr Anderson remains a channel changer for me and I dislike the idea of Eli Drake being saddled with him, though if he's there to simply put Drake over then I'm somewhat mollified.

I do think the lack of substantial matches can detract for me, I'm appreciative of short matches with a clear purpose but it seems almost everything is in the 1-2 minute range and in some cases the person intended to look like a star doesn't come across very strong. I don't mind it as a change of pace but I think they could put a little more emphasis on the feature match of the week instead of rushing through title matches in 5 minutes or less.

Prime Time
11-13-2019, 04:27 PM
I think you've got to run even a title match short, from time to time, to get the full effect of what they are doing.

I'm with you on Marti being better in a supporting role on the early evidence, and to be honest I think that the tags have been the weakest aspect all round (if you ignore Kingston on the mic). Several things I'm into but none of the teams factor in to it yet.

But, conversely, I think Anderson has been.... meh, fine for him. I'm not really a fan either as you know but he's not bothering me. And I tend to think the guys winning the matches are coming off fine, too.

So I agree on some and am more positive on others!

mizfan
11-13-2019, 04:54 PM
I don't disagree that a short title match now and then could be beneficial, but unless I'm wrong so far Aldis/Storm is the only one that got any real time. But it's early days, so we'll see. In part I'm just salty that Kingston, who is one of the most compelling guys to me, ate such a quick pin from a team that is the opposite of compelling. The context that they did it because he tweaked his leg was something, but even so!

I'll try to be fair, Anderson hasn't been egregiously bad, but I don't think he's brought anything to the table and based on the majority of his career I just don't expect him too. He's rarely been more than a catchphrase and a semi-name putting over more promising talent is, in my eyes, all he's good for. If that's all they use him for, I won't complain too much (maybe!).

Prime Time
11-14-2019, 07:07 AM
There was at least one tag match that ran on long enough that I lost interest in it. But to be honest, I think the show almost needs to re-educate a little bit, to change expectations, or the concept ain't going to fly. Gotta get people out of the 'needs to have more x matches on Power' mindset, because no, the match just goes as long as it goes. Then when you get the great little TV match it's got more value.

The other thing that I've spotted that needs re-education is that people have lost appreciation for the value of confusion. That used to be one of the great motivators to get you to watch the following week but I saw plenty of people complaining about it. But pandering to those folks because they've gotten used to bad wrestling tropes and being catered to that way would be a real shame in this case.

I don't think Anderson has brought much either, to be honest, but let's be frank - it ain't like they've got a full toy chest to work with. They don't have the resources of a lot of other places.

But I think more to the point, this is the kind of show that will benefit massively from taking the more holistic approach that we used to watch with, rather than picking at particular elements (as has become the post-MNW norm). You could argue that all wrestling shows would be better if fans would focus not on what a talent 'is good for' but more on what they are doing in the moment, and even though that's almost certainly true I'd go further and say where you've got this kind of set-up achieving that should a) be more possible, and b) be far more rewarding than you're going to get from the schizophrenic buffets you can get in other products.

Mystic
11-14-2019, 05:09 PM
I feel that eight+ weeks is a little long to build with this particular format. I don't know what Into the Fire will cost on FITE (though, I'll likely buy it) but I think that they could pretty easily get away with holding a monthly iPPV event there in the $10 range as a bit of a money maker, with quarterly big iPPV shows shot at a venue in the Atlanta area.

That way you have something a little quicker to build to.


I feel opposite on this one. A big reason I watch is to get away from that monthly set-reset program that we're all way too used to. I wouldn't be opposed to having a big match on Power that they build to randomly from time-to-time, but I really don't want to see the monthly PPV format in any fashion.

mizfan
11-14-2019, 05:49 PM
The other thing that I've spotted that needs re-education is that people have lost appreciation for the value of confusion. That used to be one of the great motivators to get you to watch the following week but I saw plenty of people complaining about it. But pandering to those folks because they've gotten used to bad wrestling tropes and being catered to that way would be a real shame in this case.

I do see value in this, but it'll be a hard one to unlearn. The biggest three American promotions of the last 20 years are WWE, WCW, and TNA, and at times all have earnestly taught fans to set low expectations when it comes to playing out storylines. That shouldn't be held against the NWA, but I'm not surprised to see it crop up. I admit I'm wondering a bit at the convoluted story they are building. I'm feeling confident they have something solid in mind so I'm pleased to wait, but I think there's also such a thing as too much confusion.


But I think more to the point, this is the kind of show that will benefit massively from taking the more holistic approach that we used to watch with, rather than picking at particular elements (as has become the post-MNW norm). You could argue that all wrestling shows would be better if fans would focus not on what a talent 'is good for' but more on what they are doing in the moment, and even though that's almost certainly true I'd go further and say where you've got this kind of set-up achieving that should a) be more possible, and b) be far more rewarding than you're going to get from the schizophrenic buffets you can get in other products.

This is a bigger ask, for me. I subscribe in part to the holistic approach you mention, but I'm not going to be able to stop thinking analytically about what I see, and what I've seen in the past will inevitably be part of that. It's just how I process, well, everything, not just wrestling. If I see Mr Anderson taking up a space but not doing anything with it to interest me outside of simplistic 15 year old WWE shtick, it's going to stick out to me! Even in a promotion that excels on atmosphere and cohesive presentation, weak links are going to stand out at times.


I feel opposite on this one. A big reason I watch is to get away from that monthly set-reset program that we're all way too used to. I wouldn't be opposed to having a big match on Power that they build to randomly from time-to-time, but I really don't want to see the monthly PPV format in any fashion.

I'm feeling this, for sure. The monthly cycle can be quite the grind, as we've seen over the years. I would like to see a few more big matches on Power in the meantime (sorry, Pete!!) but I'm definitely fine with keeping the really big events spread out.

Prime Time
11-15-2019, 06:15 AM
I do see value in this, but it'll be a hard one to unlearn. The biggest three American promotions of the last 20 years are WWE, WCW, and TNA, and at times all have earnestly taught fans to set low expectations when it comes to playing out storylines. That shouldn't be held against the NWA, but I'm not surprised to see it crop up. I admit I'm wondering a bit at the convoluted story they are building. I'm feeling confident they have something solid in mind so I'm pleased to wait, but I think there's also such a thing as too much confusion.

I don't know about 'too much', but there's definitely good and bad confusion. If you look at it when you're supposed to know what's going on and don't get it, that's bad confusion. If you look at it and you aren't supposed to know everything yet, that's good confusion. But I've noticed that wrestling fans have gotten - hell, let's call it what it is - so egotistical that they can't bear the idea that they don't know everything immediately. I'm not talking about anyone here for the record, but you do see these people around. It's probably because it contradicts their sense that they know everything as much as the people in wrestling. But for those of us who don't feel like being a 'mark' was ever some kind of deadly insult, it's not a problem to not know everything all of the time. Not knowing how something is going to play out and wanting to tune in next week to find out was always one of wrestling's strongest draw cards, and if they can re-educate fans to that, it's vital.




This is a bigger ask, for me. I subscribe in part to the holistic approach you mention, but I'm not going to be able to stop thinking analytically about what I see, and what I've seen in the past will inevitably be part of that. It's just how I process, well, everything, not just wrestling. If I see Mr Anderson taking up a space but not doing anything with it to interest me outside of simplistic 15 year old WWE shtick, it's going to stick out to me! Even in a promotion that excels on atmosphere and cohesive presentation, weak links are going to stand out at times.


I get this, I really do. I also get that since you've started watching wrestling, there's been literally no one to offer you this, so I'd be asking you to approach wrestling in a completely new way. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that if you've got the holistic approach, then there has to be light and shade, and you aren't going to get the most out of it if you get hung up about the moments of shade. The real best way to achieve that - and to maintain it - is to make sure that there is a contrast between the full on light, and the shade. I think what I'm driving at here is try - if you can - to get out of the mindset that everyone needs to be impressing you, all the time. We've got a phrase here in cricket, where a bowler is said to 'hold down an end'. They aren't going to win the match, but they can do a job well enough to keep things ticking over. That's what some midcard acts basically have to do on a well-balanced product. Now, if Ken starts finding himself in more prominent positions - different story. Hold him to a higher standard. But as long as he's doing what he's doing, the goal should simply be to professionally 'hold down an end'.



I'm feeling this, for sure. The monthly cycle can be quite the grind, as we've seen over the years. I would like to see a few more big matches on Power in the meantime (sorry, Pete!!) but I'm definitely fine with keeping the really big events spread out.


Got no problem with the occasional bigger match on Power, so long as it's advertised and built properly. In fact, having them, but occasionally having them end quickly too, might be the best of both worlds for trying to create what they are going after.

I definitely wouldn't want to see them running more than 6 events a year - and I think 4 is probably ideal. This is really all about being an alternative and I think a big key to that will be the pacing.

Benjamin Button
11-17-2019, 10:51 PM
Do you guys think Camille's not talking because shes ashamed of something she did with Wild Card?

mizfan
11-18-2019, 03:34 PM
Interesting question. I believe I heard Kamille is married to Thomas Latimer (a risky proposition, based on his history, but neither here nor there) so I wonder if that will factor in somehow, though I'm not sure how. It is especially odd that she won't speak at all. If she merely has a secret, she could just speak on other things and not spill the beans, rather than arouse suspicion by not speaking at all. So logically, either it's something so big that she doesn't trust herself not to blurt it out (unlikely, based on her demeanor?) or she really is being coerced into keeping silent.

That or she legitimately just doesn't want to talk to anyone!!! That would be the most relatable outcome, though probably not the most exciting.


I get this, I really do. I also get that since you've started watching wrestling, there's been literally no one to offer you this, so I'd be asking you to approach wrestling in a completely new way. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that if you've got the holistic approach, then there has to be light and shade, and you aren't going to get the most out of it if you get hung up about the moments of shade. The real best way to achieve that - and to maintain it - is to make sure that there is a contrast between the full on light, and the shade. I think what I'm driving at here is try - if you can - to get out of the mindset that everyone needs to be impressing you, all the time. We've got a phrase here in cricket, where a bowler is said to 'hold down an end'. They aren't going to win the match, but they can do a job well enough to keep things ticking over. That's what some midcard acts basically have to do on a well-balanced product. Now, if Ken starts finding himself in more prominent positions - different story. Hold him to a higher standard. But as long as he's doing what he's doing, the goal should simply be to professionally 'hold down an end'.

I like this perspective and think it's actually a reminder, sometimes guys just need to take up the space they're taking up. Part of me thinks they've already done more with Anderson than he's worth but that could definitely be my bias talking.

It does bring to mind the fact that often my favorite guys are ones who impress me quietly and in small ways. Arn Anderson is probably the best example of this, his whole career is lean on spotlight matches and money promos and yet he's one of my absolute favorites because he kills it in every small moment. He's surely one in a million though, so neither here nor there.

Team Farrell
11-18-2019, 04:25 PM
I feel opposite on this one. A big reason I watch is to get away from that monthly set-reset program that we're all way too used to. I wouldn't be opposed to having a big match on Power that they build to randomly from time-to-time, but I really don't want to see the monthly PPV format in any fashion.
The primary reason I'd like to see more is that the overall format of studio wrestling lends itself to a more immediate payoff. The reason it existed is that it allowed the territories to push what you'd see on that week's loop.

Josepheus threw powder into Colt's eyes, and now this weekend in Macon, the two are going to go at it in a bunkhouse match.

I'm also hoping that future PPV moves out of GPB studios. This time around, it works because it's what's over (and most importantly it's where the TV equipment resides) but I'm hoping that they move out of the studio for PPV so we can get the "bells and whistles" events with entrance music, screens and whatnot to both makes those shows seem bigger and to differentiate them from Power.

I'm a little worried that Into the Fire will be basically a two and a half hour long episode of Power with longer matches. And while the weekly show ends after an hour with me wanting more, I'm not sure that a 150% increase will necessarily do the same.


Interesting question. I believe I heard Kamille is married to Thomas Latimer (a risky proposition, based on his history, but neither here nor there) so I wonder if that will factor in somehow, though I'm not sure how. It is especially odd that she won't speak at all. If she merely has a secret, she could just speak on other things and not spill the beans, rather than arouse suspicion by not speaking at all. So logically, either it's something so big that she doesn't trust herself not to blurt it out (unlikely, based on her demeanor?) or she really is being coerced into keeping silent.

That or she legitimately just doesn't want to talk to anyone!!! That would be the most relatable outcome, though probably not the most exciting.
Aldis seemed pretty upset that she was there. I wonder if this is going to become something where they'll reveal that she's married to Latimer so she's concerned for her husband and his tag titles, but Aldis is paying her for services and as long as she's on the clock he wants 100% of her attention on him.

I know it had to happen, but humanizing Kamille is almost a little too bad. I sort of liked her as the silent backup. That silent gravitas where she's able to stare down the grown men and stop them in their tracks without having to say a single word or even blink makes her come off like a real badass without having to manhandle guys.

mizfan
11-18-2019, 05:13 PM
Aldis seemed pretty upset that she was there. I wonder if this is going to become something where they'll reveal that she's married to Latimer so she's concerned for her husband and his tag titles, but Aldis is paying her for services and as long as she's on the clock he wants 100% of her attention on him.

That would make a degree of sense, but why then would she refuse to speak at all when asked? Hm...

PEN15v2
11-18-2019, 06:04 PM
It does bring to mind the fact that often my favorite guys are ones who impress me quietly and in small ways. Arn Anderson is probably the best example of this, his whole career is lean on spotlight matches and money promos and yet he's one of my absolute favorites because he kills it in every small moment. He's surely one in a million though, so neither here nor there.

I doubt many would disagree with you. I certainly wouldn't. But, the question then evolves to "is Arn Anderson a missed main event star?" There is no right or wrong answer, but I think it brings up how often "we" as smart fans claim to see who deserves the next big shot. But Arn is a guy who everyone loves and respects, but never seems to appear in discussion for someone who deserved a world title but never got it, along with DiBiase for example.

And I'm not trying to say this to start a conversation about who deserves a shot, but rather pointing out that a role as supporting cast member might be perfect for some people, without becoming the main draw. Mr Kennedy/Anderson for example. I too have no real interest in seeing him vie for the NWA World Title, but at the same time I feel all fans should be open to the possibility that NWA can create a story where we would enjoy such an idea.

So many online fans point out the people who deserve better, and the common names in every promotion tends to be a good 25% of the entire roster at least (with WWE, it feels like it's 75% of the undercard should have been 27 times WWE champ by now, according to online fans). It goes back to something Prime Time was establishing, but so many fans tend to decide what role someone should be in, instead of enjoying the role they are in. We point out the flaws in a show more than discuss the positives. We point out what is missing instead of the strengths that exist.

It's hard to put into words, but I feel most here would agree that we all watch wrestling differently, and I remember feedback from my PEN15 Mightier work making me feel like I was the only one who watched wrestling the way I did. And one of the differences was that I didn't watch with expectations other did. I just watched to see what would happen. I know I've posted here pointing out others who basically make a statement that the solution to whatever issue they have with a show is a singular option, and all other options would be unacceptable. That's so insanely dangerous to enjoy a show. Even a smaller promotion like NWA will have a few creative minds inputting ideas, and that's not including the performers who likely pitch in as well. The more people involved with this process, the more story ideas can be created. And therefore, more solutions to whatever issue we might have.

Sticking to NWA, I sense a lot of negativity to the tag division so far. No one seems to care about the Wild Card, and the Dawsons are labeled as generic bigger men. While Kingston is reviled as the best talker in the company, and therefore misused when he gets pinned. This is completely forgetting that Kingston is likely the biggest name in the tag division so far, and if he's got the best mic skills, then he's the best equipped to talk himself out of a pinfall loss and get his heat back. All while losing to the Dawsons or Wild Card would help establish them. But some people just see Kingston taking a pin, and say NWA screwed up.

It's maddening to discuss wrestling (or any other medium) with people who think this way. It's also why I feel the online fans are the most negative and therefore the least interesting group of fans to book towards. AEW does a smart job catering to this crowd, while also trying to increasing their fanbase from other avenues. But most promotions seems to understand that the incessant negativity from the increasingly fickle online fanbase is doomed from the start. The minute they get something right, "we" are looking for what went wrong. Fewer people seem to just be sitting back and watch a show for the show.

I watched Doctor Sleep over the weekend. Great movie, with an even more impressive book. I didn't care for any version of the Shining, but loved the sequel book and movie. And yet most people I discussed it with talked about the differences between both, or the original. Instead of sitting back and enjoying the movie for what it was, they commented on how it didn't meet their expectations.

I'll admit, I've been victim to this. I've only seen the first of the Lord of the Rings movies from Peter Jackson, and a big reason I didn't enjoy it or decide to watch the others was that it didn't capture the magic of the books for me. But the reason I feel it's an exception is because it was just a bad execution of a good story. I know, uncommon opinion, but there are certain elements of modern TV/film-making that don't work for me (CGI, primarily). But, even if I do agree that I have the same negativity towards LOTR/Hobbit movies as wrestling fans do, I stopped watching those movies. Online fans keep watching despite hating. Not everyone. I'm refreshed by the amount of people on LOP who honestly stopped watching WWE as they genuinely stopped enjoying it and found other options.

Such as NWA, which I don't want to change a thing. I just enjoy watching it weekly as is.

mizfan
11-18-2019, 06:15 PM
Definitely difficult to separate hopes and expectations from that mentality of simply waiting to see what happens next. For my own defense (not that I think you're accusing me), I'll say I'm extremely open towards changing my opinion as I watch along. I love Kingston, so it's inevitably going to discourage me to see him fail (in or out of story, for that matter). But if they turn around and make it into something that appeals to me, I'll be first in line to sing their praises.

But as you say, we all watch differently, and some may not want to wait to see what happens if they see something they don't like. It's a tough balance in any medium, I think. I suppose the key is embracing the difference between wanting something to happen a certain way and not being able to accept it if things happen any differently.

PEN15v2
11-19-2019, 12:05 AM
I wasn't accusing, just adding to the continuing conversation.

Prime Time
11-19-2019, 08:21 AM
Y'know, it's interesting. Because I don't find it difficult to do with a good product - in fact, it's sort of the main way of determining what is a good product. When things are done badly, I find it's too easy to slip into the more critical mode, thinking about what they could have done instead of what they are doing. And to be honest if I'm thinking about what they could have done instead rather than what happened, it's a sign that I don't really care about what's happening - because after all, it's all just staged and they can change it any time they like so why give a damn?

But I have the same principle at work in my professional life, not just wrestling. I try and lose myself in whatever I'm reading or watching first and only bring the critical aspect to it later. I think there's so much that you miss if you're stuck with that distance that being analytical always imposes, and I think it actually makes me better when the time comes that I have experienced how well (or otherwise) it works.

I guess this is a long-winded way of saying what I really want is to just enjoy the ride, and deep down I think that's all anyone is really asking for when they complain about things being too silly, or looking too-staged, or choreographed, or whatever. It's that it stops you enjoying the ride, takes you out of it and almost forces you to think about how they could have done it differently.

But when you're lost in it... when who holds that belt matters, when the result of the match matters, when it's a contest not a booking decision and you're upset that your guy didn't win it rather than disappointed that they chose wrong.... to quote Dusty Rhodes, "woo! That's Funky. That's the American Dream!"


By the way, they are keeping up with the PR campaign. Joe Galli and Thunder Rosa liked/retweeted a couple of things I said after last week's show and I can't imagine I was alone. Not the first time, either, so it does seem like they're trying to build a connection with the audience through social media when the show is broadcast. Create a bit of brand loyalty.

Benjamin Button
11-19-2019, 02:24 PM
Thunder Rosa has a Kevin Sullivan vibe to her...im digging her. A young 1980s cult leader Sullivan vibe, not an over the hill cartoon sullivan vibe

mizfan
11-19-2019, 06:08 PM
All good Pen, I'm feeling what you're saying!

Benny isn't the first I've seen comparing Rose to prime Sullivan. I'm not sure I see it yet, but I can at least see potential for it. I've seen some complain about the women's division but so far I've enjoyed it pretty well. I like Allysin Kay, Thunder Rosa, and I think they should consider developing Ashley Vox into more than a jobber role. That's a little sparse for a division, but you could say the same about the tag division. I'm interested to see who may cycle in and out when the next set of tapings come around.

Prime Time
11-19-2019, 08:15 PM
So, highlights.

1) Aldis opening the show. Carries himself like the world champion, obviously not going to wrestle a title match against an unranked opponent, and is clearly rattled by some of the other stuff that's going on.

2) Eli Drake - dastardly attack but what ingenuity to use something that could plausibility be found around the ring....

3) Aron Stevens wrestling in street clothes because he turned up not expecting to wrestle was a nice touch. Him getting the cheapest win possible was another.

4) Thunder Rosa beat the champ, so presumably that match is something we'll see sooner rather than later. Melina is a bit of a cliffhanger too.

5) Speaking of cliffhangers, that ending was well carried off, too.

T.O.
11-19-2019, 08:41 PM
Jim Cornette, oh no...

Cult Icon
11-19-2019, 09:11 PM
Prime watched it just in time. Apparently the show has been taken down because Cornette went all Cornette and NWA now needs to edit his commentary out.

LK3185
11-19-2019, 09:21 PM
He’s seriously not worth the trouble he brings. This will happen again

Prime Time
11-20-2019, 05:04 AM
It's back up now.

In real time some of the implications didn't occur to me until I saw people complaining on Twitter - maybe because I'm not American - though the line did strike me as 'bad taste' even without that, and was more than a bit jarring.

Team Farrell
11-20-2019, 11:54 AM
Well that's too damn bad. I haven't watch this week's show yet, but it's just a shame because of what Cornette brought to the program. I dunno, I don't find it offensive, and I don't necessarily think he should have lost his job over a joke, but it is what it is.

This isn't just me, the fan of Cornette, either. If someone said the same line on Raw, SmackDown or AEW I'd probably chuckle. People need to lighten up. Not everything is the end of the world.

PEN15v2
11-20-2019, 12:52 PM
Agreed, COACH, but that's not what's going to happen. Plus, while I don't think he meant anything racist (I think Harlem would have been the punchline instead of Ethiopia if that was the case) , but rather distasteful as it does make light of starving people.

Either way, even if people need to lighten up, it won't be Cornette that will turn things around. He's already a liability to the left wing cancel culture (who eat their own), and NWA is in the midst of elevating themselves to a new level. It's just not worth it.

Plus, there isn't a shortage of guys who can replace Cornette. Not saying they'd all be as good, but any former mainstream talent can fit in that chair and bring attention to NWA. Tazz would be my first choice, as he isn't on every AEW Dark, so should still be available.

Basically, life's too sort to be offended all the time, but life's too short for a company to stand by a guy who routinely pushes these buttons.

Cult Icon
11-20-2019, 12:58 PM
Damn Pen for summing it up before I had the chance to. The basic gist is it doesn't matter if it was truly offensive or if people needed to lighten up; the fact of the matter is that people were talking about this controversy (for the second week in a row mind you) and not the show, which means this was starting to overshadow the product. He had to go for that alone.

Team Farrell
11-20-2019, 01:21 PM
What was his controversy last week? I really can't remember, that's how fast this shit moves. Who'd he tell to go fuck themselves?

How much of this is just the chunk of wrestling Twitter that's decided that don't like Cornette -- there's a big section of that subculture who listens to nothing Cornette says, assumes they know and make accusations against him -- piling on and seeing their opportunity with one questionable statement?

This whole thing turns me off of NWA so much. If they thought that line was so egregious it warranted the ol' "resign or we'll have to fire you" treatment, there's no reason it should have made air on a show taped months ago.

Cult Icon
11-20-2019, 01:51 PM
But this isn't just one questionable statement! This yet another questionable statement to go along with a half dozen (at least) other questionable statements this year alone. And while I'm sure you personally can and will hand wave a ton of them Coach it still doesn't change the fact that they all caused an uproar and at this point are serving more as a distraction to the NWA than anything else. Just look at this thread; after Prime's initial comment there hasn't been a single comment about last night's NWA show. Across the internet the talk about the NWA is over this incident, not last night's episode. For that alone he has to go. Like Pen said, you can find numerous commentators out there who may not give you quite what Cornette does but can get close enough while also not distracting fans from the product with controversial statements, whether you decree them to be controversial or not. This was the right call.

Now that said I do agree with you on one point; this show was taped months ago. The NWA clearly knew this line beforehand, could've done something to remove it and did nothing. They're not heroes in this story either.

PEN15v2
11-20-2019, 02:28 PM
The reason I won't fault NWA as much as you guys are is that because I don't believe the joke was racist nor offensive, I would understand the idea what whoever is editing or checking for comments might have let it go too.

Benjamin Button
11-20-2019, 02:42 PM
Wow, came to this thread because I loved the show and read all this. I don't even know what he's supposed to have said and really don't care. I don't see Cornette as easily replaceable as others, as he has a real handle on wrestling history and is a big part of NWA history and that"s what this show is about.

I really liked the show. We're starting to see heels and faces become defined. Loved seeing the exhibition with Aldis looking like a true world champion. The Champ coming out and doing an exhibition is a hallmark of the old NWA. Aldis looked fantastic. Murdoch was hard hitting.

But if we're going to look for controversy, I don't understand why my man Austin Idol's Bill Cosby drink gets a pass every week.

Team Farrell
11-20-2019, 02:44 PM
The reason I won't fault NWA as much as you guys are is that because I don't believe the joke was racist nor offensive, I would understand the idea what whoever is editing or checking for comments might have let it go too.

Oh I agree with that entirely, but if that's the case either own up to it, say that you don't feel what he said was inappropriate, and accept any backlash that might ensue (read: none because I'll bet 95% of the people saying things aren't regular viewers anyway), or decide that it is inappropriate and edit it off the show and speak to Cornette about it like I said.

They took the easy way of throwing the guy under the bus. I'm not going to cry tears for a guy with a successful merch business and two successful podcasts who hates traveling to begin with and has claimed over and over that he doesn't need the work. It just feels really hypocritical to me.

This feels more like buyers remorse on Corgan's part than anything. He knew when he hired Cornette that he was getting a guy who speaks purposely in hyperbole (it's part of what makes him such a good announcer), is despised by part of the wrestling fanbase and is going to use both of those facts to strike nerves. This was a convenient out.


Wow, came to this thread because I loved the show and read all this. I don't even know what he's supposed to have said and really don't care. I don't see Cornette as easily replaceable as others, as he has a real handle on wrestling history and is a big part of NWA history and that"s what this show is about.

I really liked the show. We're starting to see heels and faces become defined. Loved seeing the exhibition with Aldis looking like a true world champion. The Champ coming out and doing an exhibition is a hallmark of the old NWA. Aldis looked fantastic. Murdoch was hard hitting.

But if we're going to look for controversy, I don't understand why my man Austin Idol's Bill Cosby drink gets a pass every week.

I'll be checking out the show when I get home from work this evening. I'm looking forward to Murdoch vs Aldis, actually. Murdoch is really in his element in NWA and I love it.

I don't know who you get to replace Cornette. I don't think Taz is the guy, because (haha) he's too "northern". Christian is a former NWA Heavyweight Champion, what's he up to these days?

EDIT: Are there any unknowns from the "Championship Wrestling From..." promotions that would fit the role?

Benjamin Button
11-20-2019, 02:58 PM
Bob Caudle is still kicking..wheel his ass in.

LK3185
11-20-2019, 03:08 PM
Damn Pen for summing it up before I had the chance to. The basic gist is it doesn't matter if it was truly offensive or if people needed to lighten up; the fact of the matter is that people were talking about this controversy (for the second week in a row mind you) and not the show, which means this was starting to overshadow the product. He had to go for that alone.

This is spot on. Cornette has done this same exact joke for years but in 2019, its not going to be forgotten or just chuckled at.

I honestly watched NWA with the knowledge that Cornette is a piece of shit but that he was a good commentator for this program and all he had to do was make sure NWA (his employer) didn't have to clean up mess after mess that he caused. He couldn't do that. His job was to put over NWA wrestling , his job wasn't to be a comedian with outdated jokes.

Benjamin Button
11-20-2019, 03:12 PM
Guys, you're missing it. Austin Idol is up there promoting drug facilitated sexual assault every single week. He calls it a kayfabe cocktail. Im trying to blow the whistle, but nobody's listening.

Let's get together in a mob and tear shit apart and kick and scream.

Mystic
11-20-2019, 06:33 PM
Sometimes I get why people just want society to burn. Part of why I watched the NWA was I thought it would be at least 5 years until they were big enough to need to bend the knee every few weeks, but I guess that is just life now.

I was there to watch Aldis-Murdoch. Before the Cornette thing, I was already finding myself tiring of that crowd in Atlanta, as they are already trying to make themselves the story. Aldis has to sit there and explain twice why he's not defending the title against Murdoch (in realtiy, it STRENGTHENS the belt and the company not to WHILE lifting Murdoch). Yet, those idiots keep interjecting themselves. Then they cheer Question Mark while he's doing heel shit, chant his name during interviews that have nothing to do with him.

All my life I was made to believe, by society, that narcissism comes with individualism. As a creative writer, for example, people would call it solipsism or naval gazing, but in the last twenty years, the majority of narcissism that I've seen has been collective narcissism. Put a group together, by any identifying force, and give them some time, and let the collective narcissism begin.

If you find the Cornette thing offensive cool. If not, cool. I honestly don't care. I just want to watch something where the thing can be the thing. For instance, if it's pro wrestling, pro wrestling can be the thing. Not the politics around it. Not the fans taking over shows. Not the shooty-shoot, who did what behind the curtain.

I only wanted to watch Nick Aldis vs. Trevor Murdoch.

I kept clicking. Counting down the hours.

Again. I'm not going to argue with anyone any which way about any of this. I'm just one person with one opinion, and I can likely be as wrong as I can be right, sometimes in the same thought.

I didn't think Cornette/Journalist Joe were a good team anyway. I don't really care that he's gone. But once you bow the knee, they will likely never be satisfied.

I wish they'd focus on the wrestling. Turn down the microphones that pick up the fans in the building. And let folks wrestle.

Now, I'm off, to watch Aldis-Murdoch for the second time. Because I enjoyed it. And because I watch wrestling for the wrestling.

LK3185
11-20-2019, 06:50 PM
How does Cornette's joke have anything to do with wrestling? Just because he's used it for fucking 40 years doesn't mean that it has a place in wrestling. I get people not caring or not finding the bad taste in the joke or even didn't think it was offensive but you can't make an argument for that to be a thing in wrestling.

All he had to do was evolve with society and he wouldn't be without a job right now. It shouldn't have been that hard to commentate like a normal person in 2019. Especially since He had done it for weeks now with zero issues.

Mystic
11-26-2019, 05:09 PM
A little nervous, as they will be announcing Aldis' Into the Fire opponent tonight. Been hoping it would be someone outside the company, so that they can have longer to build to Aldis-Drake. Aside from Drake, as far as inside the company, I can't see anyone I'd spend 20-25 dollars to watch challenge Aldis for the ten pounds of gold right now.

mizfan
11-26-2019, 06:11 PM
Hoping it won't be James Storm. Going outside would be smart, but I wonder who is on the table who would look worthy of a shot walking in the door?

Mystic
11-26-2019, 06:19 PM
It's all confusing, especially if it's one-on-one. Story wise, Eli Drake makes more sense against Tim Storm or James Storm. No idea who they could bring in, but it wouldn't have to be a "great" talent, just someone they could build for the match (comparative level right now is James Storm and Eli Drake). Freaking Marty Scurll is wrestling the December Roh PPV in a tag match with Flip to open the show, so the world is off its hinges currently. Ideally, for me, it would be anyone outside the company, as Nick Aldis already warned them that if nobody stepped up he would go outside the company. But that was a while back and seems washed over now.

I could see James Storm, in that he was the first to be screwed out of a shot, and that would open up a potential Eli Drake-Tim Storm match. But James Storm is not PPV main event level for me. I almost ordered this PPV without a single match signed. Tonight they have the potential to lose my money by signing matches. What a world!

Benjamin Button
11-27-2019, 05:09 AM
That show last night needed some color in the commentary. Didn't like the silly burial of the Dawson crew, either. Only big hi-light was the Eli Drake promo.

mizfan
11-27-2019, 01:48 PM
Ah, and I hear James Storm did get the nod for the title shot. Fair play to those who like them and Aldis may work his magic with the cowboy, but on it's face that's deflating to me.

Mystic
12-03-2019, 08:12 PM
The Nick Aldis promo on James Storm tonight was full of scathing honesty. Really good stuff. Interesting choice of new man in the booth as well.

mizfan
12-04-2019, 03:40 PM
Stu Bennett, I heard? He was usually a good promo, hope he does well in the spot!

Mystic
12-05-2019, 09:12 PM
I'm open to how he will do. For all the fans of Cornette, I didn't see any chemistry with Journalist Joe. JJ couldn't pace properly, and they were stepping on each other. Will be interesting to see how Stu does with the weak link that remains.

mizfan
12-06-2019, 11:45 AM
Maybe JJ will ask him some rude and invasive questions and get elbowed in the head for his trouble. :)

Mystic
12-09-2019, 05:09 PM
A very nice move by the NWA. I didn't think we were getting any material tonight, but it seems we are. Almost a year ago, Nick Aldis defended the title against James Storm at a Pop Up event. I've seen the press conference a couple times but never the match. Last week James Storm claimed the NWA buried that match to hide a conspiracy that they were out to get him. Looks like the NWA is airing that "buried" match tonight.

mizfan
12-09-2019, 09:54 PM
That is a good idea! Does make me wonder what other footage they might be sitting on, both recent and older. Could be a really good way to supplement their material.

Mystic
12-12-2019, 08:06 AM
NWA hit its sweet spot again. They dropped videos unannounced for 3 days straight. The Pop Up match with Aldis-Storm followed by a Ten Pounds of Gold followed by a near 30-minute sit down face-to-face between champion and challenger.

If WWE's thing is the superstar is the brand, NWA is at its best when the superstar of its company is the ten pounds of gold.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-t_FZvcIs8

Team Farrell
12-16-2019, 01:02 PM
Did anyone happen to catch Into the Fire?

I absolutely loved the show. Matches that were so much more up my alley than on most major wrestling programs.

Ken Anderson vs Eli Drake was so good, but I don't think it's going to get the props that it deserves. They went out an had an opener that didn't try to steal the show, because they knew their spot on the card, but the counter wrestling and just little things that made so much sense were incredible and stuff you don't see anymore.

They didn't need big "spots" or to be obviously cooperating to make things look really smooth. There's one spot in particular that I really like where Drake is on top, Anderson fights back, creates separation and knocks Drake down but takes a second too long to shake the cobwebs out and gets caught with a drop toehold onto the middle rope.

It's so simple, it doesn't look like they're cooperating, and most importantly does look like Anderson was trying or had to hit that middle rope for the spot to work. It just looks like he got caught and happened to wind up there.

The show looked like adults having fights. There was some comedy stuff that was a little silly with the Question Mark and Aron Stevens, but I found that it didn't detract from the wrestling in the match. It wasn't a song and dance routine that ground the match to a halt, it was little things before, during and after the match meant to get a chuckle.

I assume that at some point there's going to be a Storm vs Aldis rematch given the controversy at the end, and Scrull is maybe the next major challenger? I thought that the match was good, but I did feel that both guys were getting a little tired at the end.

There's a lot coming out of this show though and a lot of directions they can go.

PEN15v2
12-18-2019, 08:37 PM
Loved it. Tie between Into the Fire and Final Battle as best show of a packed weekend. TLC was a distant 3rd.

Team Farrell
12-19-2019, 01:08 PM
Loved it. Tie between Into the Fire and Final Battle as best show of a packed weekend. TLC was a distant 3rd.

I haven't seen Final Battle. I just saw a photo. Did Vincent pull a Misery on Taven?

PEN15v2
12-19-2019, 03:25 PM
That, he did.

Team Farrell
12-19-2019, 03:54 PM
Brilliant!

PEN15v2
12-23-2019, 12:23 PM
It really has been the true alternative to WWE and every other promotion. It's odd how much wrestling has changed since the Attitude Era. A modern show is mostly <5 minute matches is a refreshing change of pace. As much as fans complain about WWE having no focus on the ring work (at least compared to Impact, ROH, and AEW), a promotion like NWA shows that WWE really does focus on in ring action (too much in my opinion). I can't remember every single Power, but other than Anderson vs Drake Street Fight from the last episode, none of the matches have been of the length expected by modern fans. All while telling several separate an unique stories, and pushing multiple characters in the span of a 60 minute show.

NWA isn't breaking new ground in any direction or way, but still is a complete change from everything else out there. The retro feel is a gimmick, but it's not overdone. NXT delivers the best wrestling program overall, for my taste. But the perfect combination would be NWA story telling mixed with NXT in ring presentation, in front of an AEW crowd.

Team Farrell
12-23-2019, 03:12 PM
I think what NWA does well in that regard is that it makes PPV shows feel like a big deal. You're going to get matches every week that are entertaining and serve a purpose, but on the PPV events or with the odd match like the Street Fight, you're going to get the payoff in match quality. I know I'm not getting anything better on a WWE PPV than they put on TV every week, save for maybe a big stunt in a top level match, so one of those things just isn't "necessary" to see so long as they'll give me a quick recap of the angles on the PPV.

In 2019/2020, if I want to see "good" or even "great" workrate focused wrestling matches, it's easy. There's Dynamite, NXT, ROH, even Raw and Smackdown usually have one. Give me something I don't get every week.

NWA doesn't feel like it has any "fat" that could be trimmed on a weekly basis. Obviously there are the silly faux commercials, but even those fit in to what would typically be a commercial break because they're formatting the show as though it were on television.

mizfan
12-23-2019, 04:46 PM
I've drifted a little bit away on this, but I did appreciate the idea of having a show with mostly short matches. I think in practice they may have gone a little too short for my taste, for me between 4 and 10 minutes is an ideal length for most matches but they seemed to go under that a lot. If I see somebody get beat clean in about 5 minutes or less, instinctively I'm going to think that wrestler is a jobber or close to it. Which is great if that's the point, less so if it's someone I need to take seriously next week, and I think they've flirted with that a bit more than I'd like. But it's a tweak rather than a big change, the concept is pretty sound and does stand out as fresh in 2019.

Prime Time
01-02-2020, 07:49 AM
NWA seems to be holding it's audience better than pretty much anyone else now. Obviously a decline after the first couple of weeks but the week 3 edition of Powerrr had 240,000 views, and only one since then has had less than 200,000. Unlike everyone else, the crowd they have are sticking around.

Of course, it's much easier to hold 200,000 than it is to hold a million. That needs to be added. But, in it's own small way this seems to be working.

Team Farrell
01-02-2020, 12:02 PM
I bought a brand new beautiful smart TV when they went on sale after Christmas, and with YouTube built right in (the remote has a giant YouTube button on it) it's actually easier for me to watch Power now than any other show given that I don't have cable and have to use other means of watching them, usually through a PC and Chromecast.

I haven't bought a new TV in nearly a decade, will wonders never cease.

Side note: it's also lead to me watching more random wrestling since those YouTube algorithms know I like wrestling. I've seen a bunch of old TNA because they upload full PPV's and random indy shit.

Benjamin Button
01-02-2020, 06:39 PM
How does nwa compare with mlw?

Prime Time
01-02-2020, 06:59 PM
I assume MLW must have other channels that people usually access them from, because on YouTube there's no comparison in the popularity of the two. NWA probably five times higher for the most part.

PEN15v2
01-02-2020, 07:27 PM
MLW is on BEinSports. It's a US network available in Canada. Not the most common since most of you have never heard of it, but still out there. In fact, newest rumor is that they've done so well with the network that they are about to expand their reach with another show.

Benjamin Button
01-02-2020, 10:58 PM
NWA couldnt have been great for AEW. I tried AEW for the Cody/Jericho/Jim Ross and Tony stuff...but didnt like the style...Then, here come NWA and I say shit, I'll just watch this instead

King Kong Sundae
01-08-2020, 04:49 PM
Crazy how wrestlers have got so much smaller now Ricky Moreton looks big stood next to most of them

Pretty into what the NWA are doing but I'm a couple of episodes behind, need to catch up sometime

Prime Time
01-09-2020, 10:28 AM
Lol, it's certainly come to something if Ricky freakin' Morton is looking like a giant.

Team Farrell
01-09-2020, 11:45 AM
Crazy how wrestlers have got so much smaller now Ricky Moreton looks big stood next to most of them

Pretty into what the NWA are doing but I'm a couple of episodes behind, need to catch up sometime

At his height, Ricky Morton would be a heavyweight today if cruiser is 205.

Also. Scott motherfucking Steiner!

Mystic
01-12-2020, 12:14 AM
To be fair, RM's head is the size of some people's chests/stomach areas.

Really hoping the Scurll rumors are true, and he gets WWE money to sign with roh while also being able to work NWA and NJPW. Aldis-Scurll was my 2019 MOTY, and they got a lot more. Cody couldn't deliver the roh title before All In, but I'd love to one day see a title-for-title match, roh vs. NWA, between Scurll and Aldis. Plus, Aldis is too sophisticated for the babyfaces in the NWA. It's going to take a villain to keep up with him.

PEN15v2
01-12-2020, 03:56 PM
This possible cooperation with ROH concerns me. I think for ROH, it's great. But NWA might take a hit overall.

First, it's tough to discuss, because it's still fresh and new for this incarnation of NWA. And maybe they had a plan in mind the whole time, and the things NWA is getting right won't be changing with ROH's involvement.

But, the one downfall to any talent sharing is that there's usually a single promotion that has more control over a character than another promotion. Take the Villain as an example. It seems like he's contracted to ROH, but allowed to work elsewhere when scheduling permits. So I'm already doubting his potential NWA title chances. He might get the title shot, but I don't see the title changing hands to someone more affiliated with ROH.

Also, I guess NWA will benefit from exposure with ROH. But this feels like it's more to benefit ROH to get back on track. Which, is honestly a good thing because I easily enjoyed ROH more in 2019 than Impact or AEW as my non-WWE option - at least until Powerrr debuted. Other than Raw and NXT, there's been no show I've been more excited for weekly than Powerrr. And I don't want to lose what makes Powerrr special just so ROH can rebuild.

mizfan
01-13-2020, 02:57 PM
Did I hear right that Scurll is actually taking control of creative in ROH? If that's the case then he may have a free hand to do what he likes between NWA and ROH, which would be quite interesting.

Prime Time
01-14-2020, 11:36 AM
Sounds risky when they seemed to have a decent thing going?

Degenerate
01-15-2020, 01:59 AM
I watched a full episode of NWA Powerrr for the first time ever with last week's episode (I think episode #13). I wasn't actively avoiding the show, there's just way too much wrestling and too little time to watch it all.

It was a pretty good show and I enjoyed it a lot. The environment is definitely unique and lively, much more than I expected. The matches were solid, and they have some interesting wrestlers that I had never seen before. The familiar faces were nice to see, too. I have to watch some more to get a better feel of those I have no clue about yet.

The only off-putting thing for me were those weird commercial spots in between matches like the Rock n' Roll Express Hotline bit. I didn't grow up on old NWA or anything so I have no sense of nostalgia about them, and they just felt strange and out of place.

Overall it was a nice change of pace, and at about an hour per show it'll be an easy thing to pick up and watch throughout some of my breaks during the day. I'll keep watching.

mizfan
01-16-2020, 03:41 PM
I usually skipped over those myself, Deg!


Sounds risky when they seemed to have a decent thing going?

Well I don't think Scurll gained any power in NWA, so their direction should remain the same barring any changes from Corgan and Lagana.

As for Ring of Honor, I know they have their defenders but for at least the past year I'd say they haven't really had a good thing going. Their portion of the MSG New Japan show was heavily criticized (though I enjoyed much of it personally), their attendance has reportedly been rock bottom, PR problems such as the Bully Ray and Kelly Klein situations, complaints about Hunter Johnson's creative direction and management of the company, and so on. Seems like taking a risk on a fresh voice could be ideal for them.

Prime Time
01-20-2020, 12:52 PM
Yeah, for what it's worth I only meant NWA (who I still only hear overwhelmingly positive things about, to be honest). As for RoH, linking up with the NWA is probably the first good thing I've seen them do to get positive coverage in at least a year, and maybe longer.

PEN15v2
01-20-2020, 04:39 PM
It's so unique and small compared to all the other options, that I believe people who didn't enjoy it just stopped watching. Shows you that when you see negative feedback for any promotion, it's from people who genuinely want to be fans and are disappointed, or trolls who just antagonize. Either way, all that's left are people who enjoy it, and aren't shy to share that opinion.

Team Farrell
01-21-2020, 12:29 PM
The only off-putting thing for me were those weird commercial spots in between matches like the Rock n' Roll Express Hotline bit. I didn't grow up on old NWA or anything so I have no sense of nostalgia about them, and they just felt strange and out of place.

I get a chuckle out of them, and they've definitely scaled it back. I think that they're filler for what is supposed to be an actual commercial break. On the first run, there would be three or four per episode, now they have their Highspots commercials that's filled one weekly, and they run flag football commercials from time to time. I assume that as they get more advertisers on board, they'll phase those out entirely.

Team Farrell
01-22-2020, 02:15 PM
I really enjoyed last night's episode and it provided quite a bit of advancement of things overall. I'll watch Hard Times this week.

Aldis has an ability that few have. While guys might be able to get themselves over with raw athleticism better or be flashier wrestlers, Aldis has the ability that Ric Flair also had to make every opponent he faces look like they might have a legitimate shot against him and get them over, without sacrificing his legitimacy.

It's in the little things. Being willing to break the flow of action (which a lot of guys wouldn't at the risk of losing stars or being "boring") to take a walk after being caught off guard that a guy in his 60's had as much fire as Morton did is an example. Knowing when to sell for Morton, and when to be the younger, stronger, Heavyweight Champion with a million dollar look is another example.

It's knowing when to be selfish and get me over, and when to sell or take a powder and get the other guy over.

mizfan
01-22-2020, 02:44 PM
That's a very good analysis of what Aldis has become very, very good at in the last few years. I didn't catch the Morton match yet but it's something I'm going to keep my eye out for when I do watch it.

PEN15v2
01-22-2020, 02:51 PM
NWA isn't perfect, but it's as close to perfect as a promotion is in 2020. Only thing missing would be weekly matches of a higher quality (which shows us how spoiled we are), wider array of challengers in all divisions (more teams, more women, more main event players...etc.), and more characters to care about. They are doing a tremendous job overall, but I would like to see more of what they do with Aron Stevens and less of what they do with Ricky Starks.

Prime Time
02-05-2020, 08:20 AM
I don't catch a lot of wrestling news anymore but saw they were going for Aldis vs Scurll II at the Crockett Cup. That felt to me like a suitably NWA thing to do.

PEN15v2
02-05-2020, 09:45 AM
Is that a dig, or a compliment?

Prime Time
02-05-2020, 12:29 PM
I intended it more as an observation than either, but if you were to press me then my own feelings are it's a good thing.

mizfan
02-05-2020, 04:05 PM
There's a blisteringly good promo from Eddie Kingston on the latest episode of Powerrr. Some really good stuff happening over there.

Oliver
02-06-2020, 05:29 AM
Yes! I saw that promo and got really, really excited. Kingston's almost always gold on the mike.

Aldis is superb, as Coach points out up the thread. I really disliked him in TNA, but he's clearly grown since the time I was watching that.

Team Farrell
02-06-2020, 11:51 AM
There's a blisteringly good promo from Eddie Kingston on the latest episode of Powerrr. Some really good stuff happening over there.
It's absolutely unreal.

Yes! I saw that promo and got really, really excited. Kingston's almost always gold on the mike.

Aldis is superb, as Coach points out up the thread. I really disliked him in TNA, but he's clearly grown since the time I was watching that.
Aldis is never going to be the master of flips, and probably not going to put on too many Meltzer five star matches. But he's the perfect World Heavyweight Champion. He can work with anyone on any roster and put on a strong, main event worthy match.

PEN15v2
02-06-2020, 02:16 PM
I hate myself for saying it, being a lifelong WWE fan, but nobody has been more consistantly strong as NWA since Power started up. Never a bad show, with the last one having one of the best women's matches outside of NXT of the last year.

mizfan
02-06-2020, 05:29 PM
Kingston absolutely rules on the mic. He’s in my personal top 5 of all time, almost nobody in history can convince me of the genuine emotion behind what he’s saying like Kingston can. If someone said to me what Kingston said to Pope in the same way, I would leave town.

Aldis in TNA was, I think, a combination of the company not being sure what to do with him and Aldis not really knowing what to do with himself. I remember when they went for his big push in 2013-2014 but nobody seemed to be able to find their footing and it fell apart as a flop. I don’t put it fully on TNA because there were guys in the same period who did loads more with what they were handed, but despite some effort on both sides he never clicked at all as a top guy. His improvement since that time is monumental, and clearly he’s being put in a much better position to succeed (and grabbing it with both hands, for that matter). He’s a guy I wouldn’t have given the time of day a few years ago, but now I look forward to seeing what he’s up to each week. He seems to be a perfect fit for what the NWA needs right now, and vice versa.

Thunder Rosa and Allysin Kay have definitely been impressing the hell out of me. I’ve seen some women’s matches in the past year, in NXT and in other places, that I did like better, but it’s right up there in the conversation. If I could have had one wish for either of the matches, it would have been for them to let Rosa tap Kay out. The way the matches were structured seemed perfectly set up for it, but seems like no babyface is ever allowed to tap out in 2020. I get it, you don’t want to make your babyfaces look weak, but at some point it’s more satisfying to see someone like Rosa get the submission with superior strategy than to switch gears at the end and finish with a pinfall. Small nitpick though, both matches were really great.

Prime Time
02-13-2020, 11:53 AM
Been a while since I've watched but when I did, Thunder Rosa was one of the show's real highlights. Stood out, especially when compared with the other women. No idea how she's getting on now of course but that was one thought I can remember having.

Aldis... I remember thinking in TNA that there was a point when they went to push him and fans seemed to turn against it simply out of contrarianism, like, you're trying to get him over and we haven't chosen him so we're going to rebel against it. Much like we've seen elsewhere. Then when they finally pulled the trigger on him and went with the whole 'reign of Magnus' thing, I think he had the misfortune of trying to fit into what was a failing show, and a mess in so many ways.

I always felt that the upsides with him were just so obvious that they almost went without saying, but I can recall seeing him in town not long after I moved (wrestling against Frankie Sloan) and thinking that he was about ready to do something big. I guess it would have been about 8 months later he challenged Tim Storm and the rest is history.

mizfan
02-13-2020, 05:14 PM
I remember they tried to makle a really big deal put him over Sting in a big match and treat it like it was his Clash of the Champions I moment, but it just came off poorly. Definitely didn't help that it came at the end of 2013 when TNA was hitting a really, really rough patch, so bad timing definitely played a part. Really pleased he found his right place and right time, he's definitely off and running with the ball.

Really enjoyed the Bruisers on this last episode, they feel like a very good fit for the promotion and probably get more attention here than they could get in ROH. Hope they get a lot of use out of them.

Degenerate
02-14-2020, 01:51 AM
I caught up with the last 2-3 episodes of Powerrr and I enjoyed it a lot.

I'm really digging Nick Aldis as the NWA Champion. He holds the title well and makes it feel like a big deal. That's something that I can't say about most of the main titleholders at most other companies.

I also have been digging Ricky Starks. I've seen very little of him but what I have seen has been solid. The Lucky 7 thing with that title is pretty interesting and makes watching the shorter TV Championship matches worthwhile to see if he gets the title shot.

I'm always surprised when I see the Rock n' Roll Express still pulling out decent matches. Those guys truly know how to work, especially with that type of crowd.

There's a lot to like about the product, from the titleholders to the women to the names that I know about from their WWE runs like Trevor Murdoch and Aron Stevens. I also like that most matches are straightforward and short - not a lot of wasted brainpower having to process things.

mizfan
02-14-2020, 06:07 PM
Agreed about Aldis, he stands out in a very good way right now.

Ricky Starks has been kind of bland for me, I feel like the TV title is custom made for a heel so I'm sort of waiting to see who he loses it to. It's funny, we've been saying on NWA: The Legacy Series that if Starks and Stevens switched belts it would make a lot more sense.

I'm over the novelty of RNR in 2020, if I'm being honest. The studio crowd will eat up their shtick and they can get pops, so more power(rr) to them I suppose, but I'd be happy to see them fade into the sunset.

I would like to see them continue to tweak the execution of the matches they have, but I do LOVE that they embrace having short matches. Long matches have gone absolutely ridiculously overboard in wrestling today, I'm of the opinion that the average match should be under 10 minutes.

Prime Time
02-14-2020, 07:42 PM
Long matches have gone absolutely ridiculously overboard in wrestling today, I'm of the opinion that the average match should be under 10 minutes.

Between this bit and the comments about workrate matches in the other thread... This is the most you've sounded like me in some time!

PEN15v2
02-14-2020, 10:15 PM
It's very accurate.

This isn't to say there's no market for that kind of match. Or, like NJPW, where it can be common for the promotion. Without getting all column/essay on everyone, ROH brought that style to light after the folding of WCW. The workrate era started on the independents, and ROH was the biggest spotlight on it. Meanwhile, WWE increased their TV time in a variety of ways, be it with increased PPVs per year, creating NXT in 2010, added time to Raw with the 3rd hour by 2011...etc. And Vince is no dummy, no matter what the internet says. He adapted the TV product to match the growing interest in longer matches. Plus, it served a purpose to fill the increased TV time. Other promotions also started increasing match time...etc.

In the end, the problem became that we saw longer matches too often. Every promotion needs to get the best value from their roster, and longer matches help. The problem is that it meant sacrificing in other ways. I think in WWE, storytelling and character development took a major hit. I struggle with NJPW for those reasons.

While the world around wrestling was losing and shortening their attention spans to youtube clips, wrestling was forcing fans to extend theirs. Some did, but I think it's a big reason wrestling isn't as big as it was. There are many many many things wrong with WWE, and their responsibility to the survival of all the other promotions is indirect but still huge. WWE adapts from the innovations found elsewhere, and then other promotions either become like WWE, or do the opposite to fill the void. Over time, this led to lots of overly long matches with talent who aren't able to deliver to that level. Adding to that, but because of the youtube generation, the reduced size of most wrestlers, and the influence of lucha style, more spots became the norm. So matches went longer, spots became standard, and psychology often was left ignored (if not completely obliterated). I won't pretend to know for a fact that it decreased ratings, but I strongly feel it's factor.

So it's nice to see Raw bring back more squashes. And main events a couple times a year that are explosive brawls for less than 10 minutes with Brock. I can only say it's by reputation as I haven't watched to say for sure, but NJPW is supposed to have had their fair share of similar brawls (one of the recent WrestleKingdoms had a great midcard MMA style match that blew away the supposed 30+minute epic Okada delivered that year, in my opinion).

And NWA is just creating their own standard by revisiting a classic model. Shorter TV matches, more promos and segments to advance characters and stories, and then delivering longer and more workrate style matches on their PPV.

It's not revolutionary or genius, but it's a major breath of fresh air in the flip/dive/no sell at full speed style that seems to be increasing on AEW and NXT.

mizfan
02-17-2020, 05:34 PM
Pete, I feel like we have a lot of overlap insofar as the things you like I also like a great deal! The difference is, of course, I like some other things that you find abhorrent. ;)

I’d say the driving influence of the ROH/indy workrate boom of the 00s is probably 90s All Japan, which pushed a lot of the same stuff and was idolized and imitated by a generation of wrestlers who started off as tape traders. Regardless of where it started, there was definitely a huge push for longer matches in the fandom at one point. I remember a decade or more of fans constantly saying “give these guys 30+ minutes at a PPV”. Now, loads of main events are 30+, probably more so now proportionally than at any point since the pre-Hogan boom. Midcard matches have expanded too, and I agree it’s come at the expense of interesting characters in some promotions.

So yeah, in summary shorter matches in the NWA are welcome. One hitch I see is that, unlike in the old days (think 80s and early 90s) when most matches were short because they were squash matches, that’s not always the case in NWA. Take the Matt Cross vs. Ricky Starks match from the past episode. It was a 6 minute match, but they worked it like your generic 50/50 indy style match (with fewer dives, but even so) and despite the short time limit, there wasn’t a lot of urgency around it. So I think they have some room to improve, because it’s not the only match I’ve seen worked like that. But even with kinks to work out as workers fight the way their generation is used to wrestling matches, it stands out and it is refreshing.

Prime Time
02-17-2020, 05:48 PM
Oh there's definitely some overlap, but we don't tend to sound so alike because of all those abhorrent things you like! Good to see you coming around a little ;)

mizfan
02-17-2020, 06:11 PM
Hey, I've been preaching against the long match = good match narrative for years! ;)

Oliver
02-18-2020, 05:26 AM
I'm at the point where I'm genuinely excited for Powerrr on a Tuesday evening now - possibly more than any show in the week.

PEN15v2
02-18-2020, 10:47 AM
I haven't caught Powerrr Live on Youtube, but I think I've watched it by the NXT starts the next night about 9 times out of 10 since it debuted. It's such an easy watch.

mizfan
02-18-2020, 04:20 PM
Same, I never watch live but it's real easy to pick up after the fact. I don't know or frankly care how it looks financially, it's great to have them on Youtube.

Not sure if I'll catch the thing they're posting tonight in lieu of a new Powerrr, some kind of episode about looking for new talent it sounds like?

Degenerate
02-19-2020, 02:34 AM
I watched the new series (Circle Squared) and have a few mixed feelings about it.

The name doesn't do it for me. It doesn't feel good saying it. Even the guy doing the interviews seemed like he got tripped up a few times saying it. But this has nothing to do with the show.

The concept itself is pretty interesting. There's a ton of good indy talent out there and this is a great way to introduce a few new people to the mix outside of their regular programming. It sort of reminded me of TNA's Gut Check segments years ago, which was one of the things I enjoyed about Impact the few times I watched back then. The match on the show was decent, nothing spectacular.

They will have a voting element to the show so I wonder if those results are real or not in the long run. They also mentioned that "feedback" would also be taken into consideration which sounds kinda suspicious to me, but we'll see how that all turns out.

The part that I really disliked were the sections where they showed fans reacting to the episode. To be honest, I could care less about the fan reactions and opinions during a wrestling show itself. I guess I'm not in the age group where the ever-so-popular reaction videos are not fun to watch whatsoever. It's guess having this kind of interactivity is great in getting people to watch the show but having it scattered throughout the entire show was too much for me. I hope they either put that towards the end of the episodes so I can avoid watching those segments, or remove them altogether onto a separate show.

Team Farrell
02-19-2020, 11:47 AM
Apparently some of the folks got heckled by the crowd during their promos and matches.

mizfan
02-19-2020, 03:00 PM
I did see some feedback already with fans saying it's pretty hard to vote with any confidence based on what you can see in a 3 minute tag match, so that could be some of the feedback they take on.

I think it's always been hard to effectively do a show like this, both Tough Enough and Gut Check had their moments but they were never effective at finding wrestlers who end up being a big deal. Doesn't hurt to try though, a pretty low stakes experiment that might pay off with something interesting.

Team Farrell
02-19-2020, 03:27 PM
Yeah, it's not quite what I expected it to be. But I guess we still don't know the parameters, do we? Like, is there a single winner, do several of these guys get a shot if they show promise, or what's the end goal here? It seems like maybe whomever shows promise will get picked up.

Based on what I saw last night, PJ doesn't know how to safely set up for a suplex (but he can dive off a balcony :rolleyes:) and he can only "play" pro wrestler at promo time. The other guys have a good intense promo and their work is solid, I'd probably keep them around but I didn't see much in the father and son.

Degenerate
02-20-2020, 02:59 AM
Yeah, I thought the team of Dean and Neal did a lot better overal than the Hawx family, even though they didn't win the match. I wouldn't mind them being a part of the NWA tag team division, it looks like they would fit in well there.


I think it's always been hard to effectively do a show like this, both Tough Enough and Gut Check had their moments but they were never effective at finding wrestlers who end up being a big deal.
Most wrestlers who could wind up being a big deal wouldn't have to go through shows like this!

It's still a good foot in the door for some people to have some bigger exposure than they're used to, although I'm not sure what size of the current NWA viewing audience is on YouTube. The NWA channel has 190K subscribers which is a decent amount. It does pale in comparison to others. AEW is getting close to the 1 million mark. TNA has over 3 million. Ring of Honor has 426K subscribers. At least they beat MLW :D