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Cult Icon
11-21-2018, 03:37 AM
Dudes...I think we're about to see a new wrestling promotion backed by dudes worth $7.6 billion.

https://luchacentral.com/breaking-news-all-elite-wrestling/

Oliver
11-21-2018, 07:30 AM
Well, that's very interesting!

mizfan
11-21-2018, 11:34 AM
In wrestling I'm pretty much always believe-it-when-I-see-it, but I really hope this one pans out the way we're all expecting it to. That'd really be something. :)

Prime Time
11-21-2018, 11:36 AM
I mean I don't know anywhere near enough to comment with anything credible but just from a distance it looks like a potential game-changer.

Cult Icon
11-21-2018, 12:30 PM
Here's the deal, for those who want something a bit more in depth than the article I posted (or who didn't read it). A month ago, the domain name All Elite Wrestling was taken, as well as allelitewrestling.com and an All Elite Wrestling twitter account (@AEWrestling, though there are no tweets or info as of now). About two weeks ago on November 5th, the company "All Elite Wrestling, LLC" filed trademarks for the for the following; All Elite Wrestling, AEW, Double or Nothing, All Out. AEW Double or Nothing, AEW All Out and, most notably to me, Tuesday Night Dynamite. The address listed for All Elite Wrestling, LLC was listed as 1 TIAA Bank Field Dr. in Jacksonville, Florida; that is the stadium for the Jacksonville Jaguars, who are run by billionaire Shahid Khan. Khan is also the owner of English football club Fullham F.C. and apparently tried to buy Wembley Stadium recently; he's also the name that was initially rumored to be involved with the Jericho/Jim Ross promotion (along with his son, Tony Khan) and is worth $7.6 BILLION. He and his son are clearly the money guys in this whole thing.

Now it's possible All Elite Wrestling, LLC could sit on these trademarks forever and not do anything with them (much like the NHL hasn't with the WNHL) but all indications are this is real and it's been being planned for months by all the members of the Elite, Jericho, Jim Ross, Jericho's agent Barry Bloom and the Khan's. I would guess Meltzer probably knows about it, but has been told about it off the record and thus hasn't reported it. The fact that there's a name for a TV show included tells me that there's also a TV deal at least being worked on, if not already in place. This is very real. No one knows the hierarchy as of now but my guess is the Khan's are the investors/owners, Cody, Jericho and the Bucks are creative, JR is commentator/talent relations head like he was during WWE's heyday and Omega, Hangman, Marty Scurll (at least in a few months when his deal is up), Chris Daniels and Frankie Kazarian (who's deals are up at the same time as the Elite) are the talent along with Jericho, Cody and the Bucks. There will obviously be more talent, and now that SEScoops' reporting last month has been (to an extent) validated it could be quite a few workers, as they reported Jericho and JR had been recruiting people from New Japan and WWE respectively.

That of course brings up the question of where this all leaves the other promotions. WWE won't be threatened by this right away (if ever), but I imagine Vince will still be annoyed by it all and maybe even a little betrayed by Jericho, who was so loyal to him for so long and is now starting a rival (to some degree) promotion. The timing of this isn't the greatest for WWE either; their two top stars (John Cena and Roman Reigns) are either largely inactive or gone for at least a year (possibly for good), attendance and ratings continue to sag, creative remains what it is and Vince will soon be distracted by trying to get the XFL: Part Deux off the ground. There's also the fact that AJ Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura and The Club will all have their contracts up in the next few months, and will now have the option to negotiate with a promotion that, if they want to, can offer them just as much money (again, the Khan's are worth $7.6 billion!), likely a lighter schedule, the chance to still work in the US and a chance to work with their friends (obviously AJ and the Club are close with the Elite). Even if they don't go, this new promotion (or the idea of it) has given those guys who bargaining power to raise WWE's price for them. Again, WWE is in no danger here from being displaced as the number one promotion or from losing money thanks to the TV deal. But they aren't happy about it either as it creates a new place for wrestlers to go, potentially leads to the creation of a union (which we know Cody wants) and could be a promotion that competes with them due to the money behind.

And if WWE is nervous, everyone else will be too. Impact is soon to be without a TV deal and if AEW doesn't have one already (though I do believe they do) then Impact could find themselves competing against it. LU has enough problems to worry about already and this won't help. And Ring of Honor is potentially boned. Not only will the Elite and the Addiction be leaving but I could see a bunch of other talent bolting as well; they could be left with just Matt Taven, Jeff Cobb, Jay Lethal and Flip Gordon after all is said and done (not a bad four to build around, but still). And while no one can confirm this now, it wouldn't shock me at all if New Japan and CMLL decide to ditch ROH and join up with this new promotion, especially since the Elite has made it clear they still want to be associated with New Japan. It's going to be very interesting to see how this affects the rest of the promotions in the upcoming months. As of right now, the only ones I don't see being rocked are the two Mexican promotions (AAA and CMLL), New Japan and MLW, which has a solid TV deal in place.

In the end it's definitely exciting though. If this comes to fruition as I expect, this could be the first promotion since WCW to look WWE in the eye and to some extent compete. The potential here is off the charts and I for one can't wait to see how it plays out.

Team Farrell
11-21-2018, 02:34 PM
This is a big deal...possibly. I think the impact that it has is really determined by their TV deal.

If this is basically a vanity project funded by a money mark doing a barter deal on some obscure cable channel, it probably doesn't have much more impact on the industry as a whole than MLW starting up did. However, if the owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars can leverage his ties to land a deal with an ESPN, CBS or NBC (all of which have ties to the NFL), that's a game changer. That's why Shahid is there. From what I've been hearing, this is a Tony Khan deal with his dad on board to add legitimacy.

Whether this has any impact on WWE or guys contracts, that'll come down to funding sources and/or how much the Khans are willing to spend. If there's a stable funding source, or the Khans are willing to write some big initial cheques, you can get some talent on board. If they decide that The Elite, Jericho and a few of the ROH guys rumored to be involved are the ones that they're willing to write big cheques for, again it doesn't have a ton of impact.

I'm taking a wait and see approach on this one. However, if I were ROH I'd be fuming right now. ROH and Sinclair worked in good faith to help Cody with All In only to see this happen behind their backs? I'd send Cody home today and get him off my television.

What this could do, funny enough, is have an impact on talent north of the border. Impact has been using a lot of US talent despite essentially being a Canadian company. The reason going around is that Callis believes, point blank, that there's no talent in Canada and he's only interested in trying to sign high level US indy names rather than build any of their own stars. If this company is signing up talent and have a bigger bank account to do so than Anthem, they might not have a choice but to reevaluate that strategy.

Powder
11-27-2018, 12:17 PM
The more I hear about All Elite, the more I want it to become a real challenger in the way that TNA is not to the WWE. Then maybe Vince will wake up and realize that they need to become a better product. I am hoping that some talent jump ship, and that others choose to sign there that are not currently part of the WWE. Real competition like WCW was for about 4 years. Those 4 years made both shows must see TV. I am not hoping for another Attitude Era, but a product that pushes the envelope more and allows for character growth, less scripted promos, and compelling story lines. Look at the early 2000s after WCW folded. Both Smackdown and RAW was good without competition. Then it all went downhill.

So I am hoping that this All Elite really becomes something. Steal talent, make a good product, and force the WWE to change to keep up, or get left behind.

Cody, Omega, Jericho, the Young Bucks, and potentially,Nakamura, AJ Styles and the Club and more? That's a great start/foundation, and then they can develop others and take some of the NXT guys too.

SirSam
01-01-2019, 04:24 AM
The Young Bucks, Cody & Hangman Page just announced All Elite Wrestling and Double Or Nothing on Being The Elite.

Here is the video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfZxdmmKeqM

In case you want the clip notes here is the logos:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dvz8KW_V4AAeTdF.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dvz7p2bU0AEOtGH.jpg:large

Exciting times ahead.

Let's speculate!

Cult Icon
01-01-2019, 04:35 AM
I get that this is totally your revenge for me mocking Ambrose and Rollins in Skitz' Christmas column Sam BUT THERE IS ALREADY AN ALL ELITE WRESTLING THREAD (http://lordsofpain.tv/showthread.php?641-All-Elite-Wrestling) ON THESE PARTS! GOSH!

I kid; it's no big deal. Certainly not as big as this announcement is!

SirSam
01-01-2019, 04:38 AM
Oops sorry

I just posted this on the original thread

SirSam
01-01-2019, 04:42 AM
The Young Bucks, Cody & Hangman Page just announced All Elite Wrestling and Double Or Nothing on Being The Elite.

Here is the video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfZxdmmKeqM

In case you want the clip notes here is the logos:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dvz8KW_V4AAeTdF.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dvz7p2bU0AEOtGH.jpg:large

Exciting times ahead.

Let's speculate!

SirSam
01-01-2019, 06:04 AM
Aaannnnddd of course there is merch already.

Gotta love that carny spirit.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dv0PepjXgAABRbq.jpg

Mystic
01-01-2019, 12:48 PM
I like the name--and spirit--of Double or Nothing.

I desperately hope this is a promotion I can invest in weekly with interest. I'm reading up on things right now. The level of potential financial investment is interesting, as is the "multiple TV deals" that may or may not be out there.

The biggest element is what is the essence going to be. What are you providing that we can't get elsewhere? One thing about doing a YT show or working multiple promotions or doing a big and vast one-night show is that you can be all things to all people.

With a promotion, you can be many things, but you have to have an essence.

I'm interested in what that will be.

On a separate note, I like that they are not working with RoH. Only partnership I'm hoping for is with NJPW. Loved it with WCW. Loved it in the last year. Working with Roh or IMPACT would make them look small and tacky. Working with NJPW provides a more global feel.

Mr Chop
01-01-2019, 05:37 PM
I hated that video (bad comedy makes my teeth itch).

BUT! Very interested to see where it all goes. Putting the power in the hands of the wrestlers is certainly a good thing. And the Bucks (however much they aren't my cup o' tea) and Cody seem like they understand the modern audience.

SirSam
01-01-2019, 06:22 PM
I get exactly what you are saying Mystic, All In was an amazing event but it was very much a once off where they leveraged a lot of good will and got so many promotions working together that never would have normally. However they are a rival company now and they will have to make it worth it commercially for those other companies if they want to work with them again. When they have to make compromises it will be interesting to see what they decide to do.

I really hope they get something sorted with NJPW, seeing this happen without Kenny would feel very strange. It already feels weird seeing Marty being phased out of things at least temporarily.

mizfan
01-01-2019, 07:51 PM
I am very excited to check this out. I'm not even a big fan of the Elite as wrestlers but the idea of this is great and I did enjoy All In so I'm absolutely up for them giving it a real shot.

Mystic
01-01-2019, 08:04 PM
It already feels weird seeing Marty being phased out of things at least temporarily.

Marty was one of the guys who stole the show at All In. Won't be the same without him.

I am out of the loop, but I'm also wondering who is in charge of this. I've seen where the money is coming from, but will Cody and the Bucks have leverage or will they ultimately be talent but outside the booking/decision making? I could see this being a nice success--a new company that is not TNA with a real TV deal--or I could see it being really annoying really quickly.

Oh well. I will always be a fan of attempts because god knows I want to fall in love with wrestling again.

Looking forward to the 8th. If they have consistently done one thing well, one thing I like, it's that they try to build suspense. As much as I hate waiting, I think it's underrated in our time. The more you make me wait on the product, the more it feels like a big deal when you deliver.

LK3185
01-01-2019, 08:24 PM
Marty was one of the guys who stole the show at All In. Won't be the same without him.

I am out of the loop, but I'm also wondering who is in charge of this. I've seen where the money is coming from, but will Cody and the Bucks have leverage or will they ultimately be talent but outside the booking/decision making? I could see this being a nice success--a new company that is not TNA with a real TV deal--or I could see it being really annoying really quickly.

Oh well. I will always be a fan of attempts because god knows I want to fall in love with wrestling again.

Looking forward to the 8th. If they have consistently done one thing well, one thing I like, it's that they try to build suspense. As much as I hate waiting, I think it's underrated in our time. The more you make me wait on the product, the more it feels like a big deal when you deliver.

Nobody knows yet who's in charge of booking or all that.. There's alot of things still to be decided apparently. Meltzer even said yesterday the bucks aren't offically signed (of course they will be but just shows we're still in early stages) How much money is Tony Khan willing to lose? Make no mistake, All Elite wrestling will lose at least a little money to start with if they do this right. Even if a fanbase follows the Elite crew, how long will that last and what buildings can you book, who's the talent, the main creative? If it was just one more Elite show, then I'd say homerun.... But we've seen countless other companies start up..Several stick around, yet not really contend for anything.

Its a wait and see...

Mystic
01-01-2019, 09:24 PM
Its a wait and see...

I ask the question and a story pops up on the main page. The speculation is Cody Rhodes will produce and the Bucks will book. The initial makes sense, as Cody has been talking about producing since All In. If he's passionate about that aspect, I can't see him not coming to do a good job with it.

The Bucks booking, if true, will be interesting. I actually brought this up as I was watching a Something to Wrestle conversation about the Kliq. As we all know, the Kliq, even without official power, definitely have some good, some bad, and some very ugly attached.

If Bucks are booking it makes me wonder how much they will be able to detach from themselves, friends, their kliq. It would seem a key to attracting major talent would be, for starting, being above board when it comes to booking.

Ah, so much to wait and see on.

mizfan
01-01-2019, 11:46 PM
There is something cool about the thought of Cody having his hand in the booking as well, just like his dad. Of course he's his own man, but it would be a cool legacy to continue.

SirSam
01-02-2019, 03:54 AM
So Tony Kahn (the big financial backer) will serve as President and Cody and The Bucks will be Executive Vice Presidents whatever those titles mean.

An interesting take I got from a podcast I listen to was to see what kind of contracts they will giice their talent. Apparently Cody has been talking a lot this year about a union and it is no secret that The Bucks want to see more of their families. There was also The Tale of the Independent Contractor on the Halloween Episode where they really ripped on how the WWE doesn't provide anything for their talent. Could one of thrwe truly revolutionary things be finally sorting out a different working paradigm for wrestlers, paying health insurance, 401k etc. Certainly a chance for them to put their money where their mouth is.

Mystic
01-02-2019, 06:23 AM
There was also The Tale of the Independent Contractor on the Halloween Episode where they really ripped on how the WWE doesn't provide anything for their talent. Could one of thrwe truly revolutionary things be finally sorting out a different working paradigm for wrestlers, paying health insurance, 401k etc. Certainly a chance for them to put their money where their mouth is.

Between this and Cody producing, it seems that everything they plan to do has been hiding in plain sight. I haven't even followed these guys in a long time (I was a bit turned off by the "we could end up anywhere, even WWE" theme a while back), but I remember Cody frontloading both how he loved the producing, staging, managing of the wrestling at All In as much, if not more, than the talent aspect. I also remember a lot of talk about how wrestlers are treated. So, perhaps, everything we need to know is hiding right in front of our faces.

Jericho is also interesting. Will he or won't he. I think Jericho likes to flirt and more power to him, as he's earned that right. And, yes, he's older now, but I remember, back when I actually liked TNA, thinking how big it would be if they could land a Jericho. Now it's almost taken for granted that AEW could potentially sign Jericho.

That will be the fun part over the next few months to year: seeing what is rumor and what is reality. No matter how big a rumor is, it's only a rumor. But the moment something is reality, watch out. I hope they can deliver good things and I hope the wrestling world has the decency to receive good things. Sometimes folks who wait the longest and need something the most are the worst when it comes to appreciating it. Life is weird like that.

So, for me, I'm wondering if we will get another big show or two, with a TV deal coming later. That is speculation based on rumor, as people keep guessing they may want Tuesday come October when SD moves to Friday. Could we pass time with Double or Nothing and maybe All In 2 before we get TV or could TV come sooner? Who knows, but that is something I'm looking at, along with who will be involved and, as stated, what will be important in/to this company.

Part of me likes most the idea that they have a TV locked in but it doesn't start until late 2019, and the majority of the year is used to build a groundswell towards it.

Mr Chop
01-02-2019, 07:05 AM
The Bucks booking is, I think, a potential hurdle. Not because of the Bucks specifically but just any top talent booking has so much potential for issues. Especially with a new company your first instinct is to go with those you trust on top. Which is fine at the start but you have to very quickly be looking to transition away from that and elevate others. Ideally, the Bucks would quickly move into a more "special attraction" kind of role.

Cody in production I like a lot, you can see from every character he has had that he clearly enjoys coming up with that kind of stuff and certainly has creative flair.

I'd love to see Jericho involved on any creative level, I think that older presence, a guy that has seen so much change in the industry, would be a massive boon. I also think it could help give legitimacy to sections of the audience like me that don't pay as much attention to stuff outside of WWE.

Talk of unions and such is great, I wasn't aware they had talked so much about that, although it makes sense given how guys like The Bucks have strived (striven?) to become a success outside WWE. I'd love for that to become a reality. More power in the workers hands every time!

Prime Time
01-16-2019, 07:40 PM
I keep seeing the name around but any decent updates in the last couple of weeks? Anything actually worth knowing?

mizfan
01-16-2019, 08:19 PM
I'm sure Cult knows more than me, but here's what comes to mind...

They have a confirmed association with OWE, a fairly new promotion run by CIMA, one of the biggest non-NJPW stars in Japan. The group has some buzz right now thanks to some very impressive spots getting giffed and sent around, and CIMA has been drawing strong gates, relatively speaking, bringing the group through places like DDT and Wrestle-1.

Joey Janela is on board, possibly with some input in creative as well as wrestling when he's back action. Janela has gained a lot of buzz in the past year or two partnering with GCW to present some very creative shows under his own personal brand.

PAC/Neville has been confirmed as part of the promotion, which is pretty cool all things considered.

Britt Baker and Penelope Ford have been signed, so it's pretty clear they're planning to flesh out a women's division. A bit interesting with Baker, who is linked to (married to? I forget) Adam Cole, who almost certainly could have waited just a bit for an NXT deal as I believe interest was already expressed. Brandi Rhodes has also publicly promised there won't be a gender gap in pay in the promotion, which is also a bit interesting.

Billy Gunn has been confirmed as a backstage producer, and 00s indy star BJ Whitmer quit ROH to come over and work backstage as well.

That's more or less off the top of my head, definitely a lot more will drop as we get closer to the big show in May.

Cult Icon
01-17-2019, 08:41 PM
I got you mizfan (as always!).

The AEW roster (as of now) is Cody, the Bucks, Hangman Page, So Cal Uncensored (Christopher Daniels, Frankie Kazarian, Scorpio Sky), Chris Jericho, Pac (aka Neville), Maxwell Jacob Friedman (a great heel who currently works MLW), Joey Janela, Jungle Boy (actor Luke Perry's son who is debuting in PWG this weekend), Britt Baker and Penelope Ford (Brandi Rhodes may wrestle but it's not confirmed). The OWE agreement appears to be a talent exchange as of now as opposed to full time deals, but either way CIMA (one of the most underrated workers of all time), T-Hawk, El Lindaman and a few others will be working AEW. Billy Gunn and BJ Whitmer are indeed the agents and a guy named Chris Harrington, who some may know as a financial expert who has kept track of WWE's business records over the years, has been brought on as their VP of Business Strategy. As of now Kenny Omega isn't official but that's because of his New Japan deal; come February 1st he will be leaving New Japan, spurning WWE and joining AEW, where he'll work full time unless New Japan and AEW do reach an agreement to work together (or Kenny does what Jericho is doing and gets a deal where he can work both). The Revival have been reported as quitting this past Monday at RAW and are likely to join AEW soon as well, barring WWE changing their mind/not granting their release. This hasn't been reported or confirmed yet but I've heard it's likely The Super Smash Brothers (a Canadian tag team that used to wrestle in PWG) are on board, Excalibur is on board as a commentator, PWG will be a collaborator and (believe it or not) Jim Cornette may be involved. I'm guessing if the Revival are gone that he'll be paired with them, though I stress that isn't close to confirmed.

Beyond that the only things we know are that Double or Nothing will be on May 25th from the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Vegas (the same venue WCW used to hold Halloween Havoc back in teh 90's), another show will be in Jacksonville in July (with proceeds going to victims of gun violence) and a third show will be around Labor Day weekend, likely at the Sears Center in Chicago. There is no TV deal at this time, though everyone seems to be thinking TNT is where they'll end up. Whatever the case it's definitely got WWE and ROH spooked fierce; WWE is now raising their offers to talent and ROH just pretty much had CMLL force Rush to sign with them as opposed to MLW despite having a better offer there (MLW is also open to working with AEW, as seen by MJF working there). A very interesting time right now.

Oliver
01-18-2019, 06:54 AM
What's my chances of seeing L.A. Park here, Cult?

Mystic
01-21-2019, 11:14 PM
The MJF spot in the new Being the Elite video is excellent. This dude, if he keeps this edge and arrogance, could really fill the Arn Anderson, Steve Austin, William Regal "TV Champ who may one day be World Champ" role.

Starts around 8 min mark.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VOuIoxFw4c&t=973s

Most hope I have in AEW right now is the talk of wins and losses mattering, long story lines, etc. I've said for twenty years that I don't watch WWE because they don't give me a reason to. I hope they make this shit matter.

We shall see.

mizfan
01-22-2019, 06:10 PM
I've really liked all I've seen from MJF since I discovered him last year. Definitely feels like the sky could be the limit for him in time.

Powder
01-23-2019, 12:08 PM
How is Christopher Daniels doing now? he is almost 49 years old, and I haven't seen anything from him in years. We all get on the WWE's case for using talent that are 50 years old (HHH, Shane, Taker, now, HBK, Goldberg) but is he still wrestling? Or is he just a manager who will take bumps and be in an occasional tag match?

Team Farrell
01-23-2019, 12:24 PM
Nope, he's still wrestling full time. Had a shockingly solid match with Stephen Amell at All In and really good one with Marty Scurll at Final Battle.

The guy still moves like he's 30 somehow. It might be some sort of Benjamin Button situation.

Powder
01-23-2019, 12:25 PM
Really...wow.

Team Farrell
01-23-2019, 12:38 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n745XWbieSE

That's the All In match. Props to Amell for pulling his weight as much as you could possibly expect a TV star with two previous matches under his belt to do, but Daniels pulled a passable PPV match out of the guy.

I'm actually having a but of trouble finding any more recent Daniels, but if anyone else does the guy deserves the love.

Powder
01-23-2019, 01:15 PM
Ii would say that as much as Daniels still has it, Amell was surprisingly good considering that he is not a wrestler of any sorts. Yes he is a cross fit guy, and did train some years ago with Cody, but he has a wrestling career if he wants one. That match was better than every other celebrity match, and I could argue better than a lot of crap that has been on my TV.

I could also argue that with angle being the "natural" and Rousey picking up the business pretty quickly, that if Amell wanted to, and he could be very good really quick. You put him in the Performance Center for 6 months, and you could get another Blue Chip prodigy. They guys knows what to do, and how to do it, but is as green as his costume. Give Amell some time, he could be amazing.

And if rumors are true, he may be in his second to last season of Arrow, and may be only around until the Crisis on Infinite Earths cross over ends.

mizfan
01-23-2019, 04:46 PM
That Amell match was basically miraculous, really enjoyed it. Love me some Daniels.

Mystic
01-24-2019, 01:10 PM
I have never been in the group who dismisses someone because of their age. Their age + they can't move and they might die, sure. Their age + they only come around to main event WrestleMania or take off their boss hat to get over on someone, yes. But never simply age. If I am watching a guy like Daniels, and I don't know if he's 38 or 48, do I need to look him up to see his age so that I can know if I'm allowed to enjoy his work or not? Jericho brings this up in his podcast on AEW. Says when he sees the Stones, Mick Jagger is still the best front man in the world. Not for his age. Just the best. Perhaps this is more of a problem in WCW, where Bischoff (and I've listened to 83 Weeks and this is true) DID NOT/DOES NOT comprehend that someone who is not yet a superstar can BECOME one. He talks about hiring Bret and not really being excited about him but he needed superstars for THUNDER. This is twenty years later, and he still doesn't understand that Benoit, Eddy, Chris, could have been those guys. It may be a bigger problem in WWE, where people are overscripted and it's almost like anyone can stand in for anyone. But, and I think Jericho is right here, he says that if they didn't get his best in NJPW, that he would have been steamrolled and replaced by the talent on the roster. For me, there is no difference between getting mad at older talent that might hold down younger talent and pushing older talent out, not because of a lack of talent, but for age. Let Daniels work AEW and let him hold his own or not. Jericho, too. I really hope Cody is being legit about having very few writers and letting guys sink or swim on their own merit. That will go a ways to sort out what is what. Maybe that's too idealistic, but it really shouldn't be.

Team Farrell
01-24-2019, 01:58 PM
I'm not sure that Bischoff didn't believe that people could become stars. He watched it happen first hand with Goldberg. I think that his issue was that when he signed Bret in '97 was that he needed stars for his added TV time that were stars right now.

Benoit, Eddie and Jericho could have been those guys eventually, but they needed stars right now. This is a problem in the current WWE, they bring people in from NXT and try to tell their audience that they are top guys right this minute. Then they don't get over immediately as top guys, become midcard comedy acts and eventually get cut or are sent to sit at home. Braun grew into a top guy over the span of like two years. AJ Styles took a few months of being established to the broader WWE audience before he was accepted as a top guy.

That might wind up being an uphill battle for AEW, actually. If they manage to catch on to a broader audience than say Being the Elite and ROH are currently getting, are they just going to make that assumption that if they sign Will Ospreay everyone will immediately know who he is and they can push him as a top guy? Because if they go from a few hundred thousand views on BTE to two million on TV every week that's a big jump and a lot of people who have likely never heard of a lot of these indy top guys.

Powder
01-24-2019, 03:26 PM
Says when he sees the Stones, Mick Jagger is still the best front man in the world. Not for his age. Just the best.

This is an entirely different conversation, and as always a matter of opinion, not fact. I could name a few front men that are better than Jagger. He's good, but not the best, in my opinion. Regardless of his age.

Freddie Mercury for one.
Angelo Moore from Fishbone for another.
Marilyn Manson was really good too.
David Bowie
Mike Patton

Prime Time
01-24-2019, 03:30 PM
Not really the point that was being made, and a bit off topic in this bit of the board, don't ya think?

Powder
01-24-2019, 03:50 PM
Oh completely, but I had to point out that we are all talking about opinions, when it comes to age etc,


but back on track....

Bischoff never knew what he had, and chose to overuse established people instead of letting the younger guys show what they could do. Take Benoit's personal demons out of the discussion, look who he had, and let go...

Austin
Eddie
Jericho
Benoit
Malenko
Saturn to an extent

mizfan
01-24-2019, 04:36 PM
I have never been in the group who dismisses someone because of their age. Their age + they can't move and they might die, sure. Their age + they only come around to main event WrestleMania or take off their boss hat to get over on someone, yes. But never simply age. If I am watching a guy like Daniels, and I don't know if he's 38 or 48, do I need to look him up to see his age so that I can know if I'm allowed to enjoy his work or not?

This is me as well. I've seen guys be awesome in their 60s, and I've seen guys in their 30s who seem too burnt out/beat up to cut it. It's not about he number, it's about what they can do and how they're presented.

Mystic
01-24-2019, 05:45 PM
I'm not sure that Bischoff didn't believe that people could become stars. He watched it happen first hand with Goldberg. I think that his issue was that when he signed Bret in '97 was that he needed stars for his added TV time that were stars right now.

Benoit, Eddie and Jericho could have been those guys eventually, but they needed stars right now. This is a problem in the current WWE, they bring people in from NXT and try to tell their audience that they are top guys right this minute. Then they don't get over immediately as top guys, become midcard comedy acts and eventually get cut or are sent to sit at home. Braun grew into a top guy over the span of like two years. AJ Styles took a few months of being established to the broader WWE audience before he was accepted as a top guy.

That might wind up being an uphill battle for AEW, actually. If they manage to catch on to a broader audience than say Being the Elite and ROH are currently getting, are they just going to make that assumption that if they sign Will Ospreay everyone will immediately know who he is and they can push him as a top guy? Because if they go from a few hundred thousand views on BTE to two million on TV every week that's a big jump and a lot of people who have likely never heard of a lot of these indy top guys.

This is a hell of an assessment. I admit that I was painting too broadly on Bischoff, but I also don't think I'm entirely off. Goldberg is a yes and no in this. Yes, they made him a star, but they weren't really taking him from midcard to superstar, or, said differently, he wasn't well entrenched as something other than a star. I won't belabor the point since this is not a Bischoff thread, but I think we could have an interesting discussion on this.

I like better where you take it. Your last paragraph is the heart of my excitement and concern for AEW (and any new promotion). We could make a million guesses about what AEW will be and wants to be. If you watch BTE, you might think they want to be a super slick, wink at a small but consistent audience, type of show. If you factor in Khan and the money and the claims of TV, it seems they want to be something on the scale of WCW and WWF/E. As you point out, these are not the same in production, audience, talent needed. In Jericho's podcast about AEW (and I doubt he's speaking outside of what the company is thinking), he kept putting forth that they are presenting new guys/gals to a larger audience and that these new guys/gals are independent thinkers who have found a way to make money without a big platform. Where this is problematic, Jericho sets himself up as 1994 Hogan, who will balance the whole thing, but I'm not sure his name is big enough to do that alone. I think the ideal for AEW would be a TV deal slightly above expectations but not one that asks them to be WCW or WWF from day one. If you don't start TV until late in the year, you have talent that have some following, talent you can build around, and there is likely to be some names that may want to come in. Geez, this ended up being long winded, but I think, right now, they are not looking at anyone, not Omega, not anyone, as a sole guy to do anything. They seem to be taking the WCW route (when it was going well) of bringing in diversity and making it work collectively. The Elite bring one thing, OWE brings something else, guys like MJF something else again, guys like Jericho some else, etc. I hope that's how they try to do it.

Edit: Having thought this out, their potential right now feels more WCW on TBS than WCW on TNT. Unlike TNA, who locked in hard on the T & A and X-Division, I think AEW might try to hit 4-5 categories. Which is part of what I loved about WCW. If I wasn't feeling the world title, I might be feeling the TV, or US, or Cruiser/lightweight, or tag, or US tag, or six man. AEW feels like, right now, they could have everything WCW had at its best, except the massive Monday Night main event scene, which is why I think they might clock in right now as WCW on TBS, versus anything else we've seen.

Powder, agreed on all of that being opinion. The one thing I do wonder, however, is if creative minds start to view what someone can do at a later age differently, if it will mean better performing at a later age. In other words, there is such a big difference between the old guys who come and take your money off their past name and give nothing and a guy who is sitting there trying to conceive of how he can be better at 48 than he was at 38 or 28. I just think the change of mindset might change the reality, if taken up.

Powder
01-29-2019, 10:53 AM
It seems to me that AEW is already causing waves in professional wrestling. Big names from the indy circuit are choosing AEW over WWE, established WWE stars are either asking for their release or choosing not to re-up their contracts, and they are also signing stars from Japan.

This promotion without any real shows or home yet, is already shaking up the business.

THIS IS A GOOD THING!

The WWE will be forced to change their product, how they treat their performers, and what kind of plot lines they have for the talent, other wise, they will either not sign, not re-sign, not renew, or ask to be released. Why work for the WWE, when they can achieve more with AEW?

Having Cody, the Young Bucks, and Jericho all involved makes it a more legitimate place than Impact. And I hope that they will be the true catalyst for change.

LK3185
01-30-2019, 10:32 PM
Wondering, would people want to see Brock Lesnar vs. Jericho in AEW?

Benjamin Button
01-30-2019, 10:41 PM
No, don't want to watch that

Cult Icon
01-31-2019, 12:38 AM
I'd absolutely watch it. I'm not sure people have fully grasped just how different Jericho is outside of WWE. He's definitely got his limitations at nearly 50 but he held his own in both those Wrestle Kingdom matches with Omega and Naito (even beyond the hardcore elements). He can still get it done, and if he's got few limitations outside of WWE, that would mean Brock does as well and there's no guarantee he'd just be the "Suplex City" guy. Now if it were in WWE that be one thing because you know we're only getting a certain style from either guy. But outside of that, with fewer restrictions and what would likely be a money buildup given Jericho's great promo work and a fully unleashed Paul Heyman, I think it be stellar.

Having said all that Omega vs. Lesnar would be even more money for me.

LK3185
01-31-2019, 12:57 AM
You say that but Brock can do whatever he wants. He's certainly paid enough to do whatever type of match... Remember hearing Dean say that Brock didn't want to do any of his ideas.

I think suplex city caught on and WWE and Brock decided that's type of match they were going to lean on. Brock isn't looking to work 30 min NJPW classics.

Brock's motivation is money and that's why I def think its possible and likely he'll listen to an offer from AEW if he gets one.

Cult Icon
01-31-2019, 01:10 AM
He'll definitely listen to an offer. Brock's only loyalty is to the almighty dollar and if nothing else AEW has a whole lot of that. It wouldn't be hard to top what Vince is paying him now and that'll be enough to get him to the table. From that point it's a low risk situation. Even if AEW weren't to get Brock, Vince would end up having to pay quite a bit to outbid them and that would likely lead to Vince pushing Brock over certain workers to justify the deal, leading to more unhappy workers who could then become available. And of course if AEW were to get him then suddenly you'd have a well known star (though not one I'd expect to draw huge numbers given his recent track record) who has fresh match ups waiting for him in Jericho, Omega, Pac, Cody, Hangman Page and possibly even more depending on who AEW gets. And that's not including the likelihood of Heyman being included in this deal. It's a low risk, high reward gamble and I expect they'll make an offer. I don't expect he'll sign, but he will at least listen.

Benjamin Button
01-31-2019, 01:52 AM
My answer is Brock's best gimmick is running all over everything. He can lose. Still, those loses aren't special...I want to see something special; something different...if I need to see Brock, I'll watch WWE for my 9.99 a month.

Otherwise don't bother me with that same ol same ol shit

ps: I can go back and watch his match with Eddy aniytime

LK3185
01-31-2019, 03:35 AM
Yeah, i'm sure they'll float him an offer.. I know Brock is making the most in WWE right now and Jericho's deal apparently got such a high number its just below Brock and Cena... (that forbes article had basically all WWE talent below that, with the most regular talent getting i think close to 2mil) And given the almost certainty of less dates to work, at least in the short term AEW will/should be attractive to anyone.

Then again, more talent will need more shows, tv to run properly and while I do think AEW will spend, they shouldn't hitch their wagon to every WWE guy. Case by case basis. You don't want to be TNA.

Team Farrell
01-31-2019, 12:48 PM
You say that but Brock can do whatever he wants. He's certainly paid enough to do whatever type of match... Remember hearing Dean say that Brock didn't want to do any of his ideas.

I think suplex city caught on and WWE and Brock decided that's type of match they were going to lean on. Brock isn't looking to work 30 min NJPW classics.

Brock's motivation is money and that's why I def think its possible and likely he'll listen to an offer from AEW if he gets one.

Brock didn't really work the typical "Suplex City" match with Finn. His offense was largely suplexes, but that's because that's what his offence is. He's an amateur wrestler. He's never really been the "running spots" guy and of all people Finn isn't the right guy to try and go out there and do a technical grappling clinic with. I suppose he could have killed him with strikes.

I too remember Dean saying that Brock wasn't into his ideas, but that makes me wonder what his ideas were. Dean seems like the type of guy that if Brock kept shooting down his bigger ideas he'd get frustrated, throw up his hands, say fuck it and have Brock steamroll him.

Cult Icon
01-31-2019, 02:36 PM
If we've learned anything about Brock Lesnar it's that he'll do whatever you want as long as you pay him. If AEW is going to pay him a truckload of money and tell him they want him to have matches with Jericho and Kenny Omega like he did with CM Punk a few years ago, he'll do it. If they want him to have Suplex City matches, he'll do it. He'll pretty much do anything as long as he's paid and AEW will pay him. Now will they pay him more than WWE? That I don't know. Either way it works great for Brock. I have no idea whether Jericho's tweet about Brock the other night was indeed him working an angle or if he was drunk and he's now covering for himself by leaking incorrect info, but either way it doesn't matter. The fact that the news is out there now means Vince (and Dana White, as UFC is still interested in Brock) cannot afford to sit back and think AEW won't pursue him. They'll have to up their offer and that alone means Brock is coming out a winner here. And like I said, it's not a huge risk for AEW. They either get him and suddenly have a ton of appealing matches on the table, or they drive up WWE's price to retain him, likely force WWE to push him over others (thus creating potentially unhappy wrestlers) and use the money elsewhere. It's a low risk, high reward gamble.

That's a few months away from being real however and there have been some other moves from AEW over the past week. We know now that Jungle Boy (actor Luke Perry's son and a talented high flyer) is on board. This past week they've signed Chicago based wrestler Kylie Rae, former Lucha Underground star and current AAA Cruiserweight Champion Sammy Guevara (who is really, really good), Stardom wrestler Bea Priestley (who was offered and turned down a WWE deal) and most notably Trent Beretta and Chuck Taylor, two of the most entertaining guys out there. There should be a few more announced next week as well at this Ticket Party they're having on the 7th. I've heard that CIMA and the OWE guys will be there, I've heard Shazza McKenzie (an Australian wrestler) may be on the radar and, naturally, I've heard that'll be where they officially announce Kenny Omega. And that's not including all the speculation now about Brock, KENTA and Ambrose. It's only going to get crazier.

Mystic
01-31-2019, 03:35 PM
All I want to know is do they get Pentagon?

We got one day reporting on that in early January. Supposedly AEW and Impact putting money down. Heard nothing since.

Cult Icon
02-02-2019, 03:05 AM
He and Fenix are in. The Young Bucks showed up to an indie show tonight where Fenix and Pentagon were wrestling SCU and offered them a spot in AEW. They all shook on it and the buzz coming out of the show seems to confirm they are in, though it's not known if it's an exclusive deal yet or not.

Mystic
02-02-2019, 10:01 AM
Excellent. Just saw your note, Cult, then went to the Google machine to see Jericho saying they signed an exclusive deal then taking a shot at them. Which I love, because I am hoping that Pentagon one day puts a whoopin' on Jericho for All In. Anyways, I'm happy now. I like AEW is honoring the folks who were with them at All In as sort of a potential foundation for early AEW. I've had a hotel on wait, as my attendance for DoN was based on whether they signed Pentagon. Looks like I will attend my second Cody-produced show in May.

I like that, even as this company starts to take shape, I have no idea what it might look/feel like. They are taking their time, and there is so much left to unravel.

Cult Icon
02-02-2019, 02:48 PM
I want to clarify; Pentagon and Fenix have NOT signed an exclusive deal. I did some digging and got enough people to go on record to do a story on this over at Lucha Central (cheap plug!). At least for now, Pentagon and Fenix will work dates, much like they're doing with AAA, CMLL, Impact and MLW (LU is the only place they are signed to). While I do expect by the end of the year they will sign full time with AEW in the states, for now Pentagon and Fenix will continue to work all their other places, with AEW just added in.

My full story on it is here. (https://luchacentral.com/exclusive-lucha-brothers-agree-to-non-exclusive-deal-with-all-elite-wrestling/)

Mystic
02-02-2019, 03:59 PM
Thanks, Cult. Glad to read this. I know business becomes business and it's likely to get icy between some promotions eventually, but I didn't want to see anyone screwed, especially MLW. Good deal all the way around, for AEW, for LB, for the companies mentioned.

Powder
02-02-2019, 04:23 PM
Still, this is more indy stars that are not coming to the WWE, because they have other options. The WWE better start paying attention, or they will not have talent in a few years.

mizfan
02-02-2019, 05:05 PM
WWE is choked with talent right now, I'd be shocked if they have less than 200 full time wrestlers across all brands right now, and they're still doing everything they can to sign more. I'm very happy to see some people try their luck elsewhere.

Cult Icon
02-02-2019, 05:15 PM
To me the big thing isn't that these are indie stars passing up WWE; these are two major lucha libre stars passing up WWE. And they aren't the first. Remember that Bandido and Rush were both given WWE offers in the past month and both said no and went to Ring of Honor instead. This tells me that luchadores have been watching how guys like Andrade, Gran Metalik and co. have been used in WWE and have decided to stay as far away as possible (yes I know Almas has been used well the past month, but before that he wasn't being used much at all).

mizfan
02-02-2019, 05:21 PM
Amen, Gran Metalik alone should convince anyone luchador to give it a second thought.

LK3185
02-06-2019, 06:40 AM
Okay, so a source has reportdly said Randy Orton is open to talking with AEW about a possible deal. Not that one is in place but its certainly something to watch.

Just thought i'd pass that along

Powder
02-06-2019, 09:48 AM
I just read that as well, and it seems like Orton May be using AEW as leverage to get more money from the WWE. I can’t see Orton leaving, he is still one of the protected chosen few.

Oliver
02-06-2019, 10:57 AM
God, the thought of Pentagon Jr being in WWE and ending up as just A N Other on 205 Live has made me miserable. Thank goodness that isn't a thing that's going to happen.

Someone like Orton, I would say more than anybody else currently contracted to WWE, would be a signing that's a huge deal. He's certainly got it in his locker to keep pace with the main top guys on their current roster, every match he could have would be fresh (CODY aside, I suppose), and he's just treading water in WWE at the moment so I imagine there's some appeal to him in moving elsewhere. Like, Orton's not really doing anything on Smackdown right now, he's unlikely to get into title contention on a serious basis right now, his character is stale and not evolving...I imagine the opportunity to freshen up his career a bit is a big thing for him, right now, and he's certainly got enough cash in the bank to take a risk on AEW. I mean, he's only 38, it's not like they'd be getting some aging WWE also-ran - they're getting a man who has years left in the tank, injuries permitting, and probably has the urge to develop himself further.

I'd love to see Orton in their mixing it up with the likes of Omega, Pentagon, Fenix, the Bucks and so on.

LK3185
02-06-2019, 11:46 AM
I think Orton heard about what Jericho was making and thought 'hey i'm a bigger star, lets see if i can get that' and at worst, he ups his leverage with WWE if they want to keep him.

Since there's no offer on the table currently, Orton talking about being open to it screams negotiating tactic.

Powder
02-06-2019, 11:50 AM
But at this point, what could Orton do? He has basically been the same character for nearly 12 years. The boring, monotone promo, who attacks people because he feels he is better than them. The last time Randy Orton was interesting was when he was in the HHH feud where he DDTed Stephanie while HHH was handcuffed to the top rope.

If Orton was going to jump to AEW to expand his character, then why doesn't he do that in WWE? Orton has enough stature and tenure to be allowed some freedom. There are newer and younger guys on the roster, and in NXT that Orton can work with to freshen himself up and to create good matches with.

Chad Gable
Samoa Joe
Kevin Owens
Finn Balor
AJ Styles - rumored as his WM opponent
Eric Young and Sanity
Rusev
Mustafa Ali
And the entire NXT roster.

If Orton wanted to, he could change himself up, but I think he is complacent. He gets paid, and does the same old same old. He probably thinks "I do not need to do anything else, I'm still the veteran, and the top of the mountain". But Orton should change himself up. Be a heel, but completely reinvent himself. Look at Daniel Bryan, he killed the YES movement and is a completely different character, and is refreshing.

Orton is still boring as hell.

Oliver
02-06-2019, 12:05 PM
Orton, like other performers, can only really work with what he's given though. WWE clearly have no motivation to push him to the Championship level again, nor are they giving him some further direction in terms of character development. So what can he do?

I actually think his recent weeks have been the most interesting he's been for a long time. But that's as much due to how he's being used.

Powder
02-06-2019, 12:08 PM
I understand that, but as I said, Orton can go straight to Vince and HHH and ask to change himself up. I am not saying that he should be near the WWE or Universal Title, but he can be a more interesting character.

Why can't he ask to work a program with Mustafi Ali, where he puts Ali over? Orton is 38 and has nothing left to prove, so let him start putting people over. Remember when he was the Legend Killer? Those veterans put Orton over, so let him return the favor.

comfortablynumb
02-06-2019, 12:16 PM
Why put guys over like Mustafa Ali in a WWE by-the-numbers feud when he can still headline shows for another company and make his personal brand bigger? I see both sides but Jericho showed that accomplished veterans can still be in top programs making top money elsewhere, and don't have to fall back to the midcard like in WWE.

Orton outside of the WWE bubble is very interesting though.

LK3185
02-06-2019, 12:21 PM
I think Orton is the type of guy that wants more time off but WWE isn't quite ready to put him in that legend role. Where he'd be putting people over. They know his RKO still pops people, so they have him as a threat but not really.

AEW has to be enticing for someone like him because currently, they have 3 shows coming up and they're paying guys like Jericho, someone 10 years older a boatload of money.

I personally don't see many interesting matchups but its more compelling than WWE refusing to put him in a HBK type role

Powder
02-06-2019, 12:21 PM
Yes Jericho headlined in Japan, but he put over Punk, Fandango, Styles, Edge, Owens, Zayn, and more, while still remaining a main event player.

Oliver
02-06-2019, 12:37 PM
Yes Jericho headlined in Japan, but he put over Punk, Fandango, Styles, Edge, Owens, Zayn, and more, while still remaining a main event player.

Punk was in the main event scene, as was Edge - they were both for the big title - but every other feud you name there was long, and I mean LONG, after Jericho was considered a main event player. Owens was over the US title, for example, and solidly midcard. Same as his feuds with Ziggler, Styles, Bray, and Ambrose. He's not been a main event player in WWE since mid-2011.

Cult Icon
02-06-2019, 01:55 PM
I'm fairly certain this is a negotiating tactic. There's definitely reasons to think it isn't, with the big reason being Orton's close friendship with Cody. But at the end of the day, unless it's a massive offer from AEW, my guess is this is just Orton using AEW's existence to get himself a bigger pay day. Props to him if that's the case. The more likely move that was also rumored last night (but that no one brought up here) is the Usos making the jump. They apparently have contracts coming up and have yet to re-sign with WWE; they're also guys who have done almost everything imaginable in WWE and have fresh match ups with the Bucks, Lucha Brothers and other teams waiting for them (not to mention a likely bigger pay day given AEW's desire for a true tag division). It's the Usos you have to be more on the lookout for here, not Orton by my estimation.

I do have a few other names I've heard that are either AEW bound for sure or at the least very likely. They announced last night Jimmy Havoc is on board, and for now he'll have a nonexclusive deal much like Pentagon and Fenix. The other guys I've heard are Dezmond Xavier and Zachary Wentz (The Rascalz team from TNA, who are also associated with CIMA and his Strong Hearts stable in OWE), Andrew Everett, DJZ and Sonny Kiss (XO Lishus from Lucha Underground). Darby Allin was someone mentioned to me who hasn't signed but will be likely to, which would mean Priscilla Kelly would go with him. I'm not sure if any of these guys will appear tomorrow at the Ticket Party but keep an eye out for them.

comfortablynumb
02-06-2019, 02:23 PM
I don't see the Usos moving the needle much. They really do nothing special. Signing them would be more of a TNA-move because they come from WWE and that's the only reason for signing them. They're made for WWE.

And I agree I can't see Orton going anywhere, but it's a smart move to put the rumors out.

Powder
02-06-2019, 03:33 PM
Any chance of AEW signing Harry Smith? He is still a big enough name, and could be good, and he is still relatively young (33) and given the right push, he could be very marketable.

LK3185
02-06-2019, 03:35 PM
I'd like to see the Usos in AEW if only to work the Bucks and see how many super kicks they can get off in one match. I personally think they're good talent but not exactly an earth shattering move.. Also believe that AEW possibly would offer them the most money

Powder
02-06-2019, 03:44 PM
Well, the first Earth shattering move will be who jumps ship first.

If it is the Usos, then it makes headlines. And the Usos have done all they could do in the WWE. 5 time champs, put on great matches for a decade, etc. So there is nothing left for them to do in the WWE, except a feud with the Revival. So I could see the Usos leaving.

I could see the Usos, the Good Brothers and the Revival all leaving for AEW, but all three probably won't, until the Revival's contract is up.

mizfan
02-06-2019, 03:55 PM
Just on a personal level, not at all interested in seeing Orton in AEW. It'd be a big deal to sign a WWE lifer, for sure, but the last thing AEW needs is an entitled, burnt out guy looking to coast on his name and cash the Khan's checks, which is all I feel I've seen from Orton in nearly a decade. Bringing in a WWE guy and sticking him on top right away has the potential to hurt the kind of brand AEW is trying to cultivate as well (Jericho and Cody don't count as they established themselves firmly outside WWE before coming on board). I won't boycott the promotion or anything if he does get signed, but personally I hope it doesn't happen.

Love the idea of DJZ and Sonny Kiss being signed. Sonny has miles of potential and I'm shocked DJZ has been on the indy table for as long as he has already.

Team Farrell
02-06-2019, 05:13 PM
Ooooookay, let's get real here for a second. AEW needs a name. They need a marketable, big name star that the general public will recognize if they want this promotion to be more than ROH 2.0.

The Khan's aren't stupid. That money isn't going to flow forever without seeing some return on investment, and they need interest and eyeballs to make that happen.

Let's look at some numbers.

All In Zero Hour drew 196,000. All In put a little more than 11k people into an arena for a $460k gate.

That's impressive as hell, but was a "one time thing" with people travelling from all over to see the show and people tuning in out of curiosity. They'll put 15k into the MGM, undoubtedly, but can they keep doing that?

Can they put 3,000 people into buildings to tape their weekly TV? Can they put 10k into buildings for PPVs?

Why would I believe that they can on an ongoing basis when ROH can't with basically the same talent?

As much as people might want this to stick to its indy roots, eventually you have to attract a broader audience if you want this to be self sustaining, and the fastest and easiest way to do that is with a couple of names that those people will recognize.

So yeah, Randy Orton or whomever else might be boring or stale in the eyes of a certain fanbase, but who do they have that's going to make 50k more of the two million Raw viewers take an interest?

I am behind AEW. I desperately want them to succeed. Selfishly, there have been doors opened for me personally because of this sudden rush by everyone to sign guys, so yeah, I want this place to completely upend the landscape.

But I'm trying to be realistic. DJZ and Pentagon Jr and Cody and the Bucks and all these guys are awesome. But none of them has been able to put thousands of people into a building in the US, and attract half a million eyeballs to a TV show on a consistent basis. And the reality is that if AEW is spending WWE money, they need to see WWE returns within a few years in order to remain viable. They need a TV deal worth a significant sum, which is going to require eyeballs to maintain. They are going to need to be putting thousands of people, even if it's only four figures, into buildings on a regular basis which is going to, sooner rather than later, require names that the general public is familiar with because travelling from all over to see an AEW taping is going to lose its novelty in a hurry.

AEW needs to be bigger than ROH in a hurry, but I am not seeing the name value to the general public in order to do that.

Powder
02-06-2019, 05:28 PM
What about Kenny Omega? Could he be that name?

Team Farrell
02-06-2019, 05:45 PM
I doubt it. Kenny Omega is a big star within pro wrestling's hardcore fanbase, but I don't think your average person knows who he is.

I'm talking about trying to attract the attention of the people who only watch Raw and maybe Smackdown, that's their wrestling viewership for the week. They don't watch NXT or 205 Live or any other wrestling. Those people have probably heard the name Kenny Omega in passing, but couldn't pick him out of a lineup.

So while Kenny signing would create a ton of buzz within the wrestling community, and I think he should be the centrepiece of the entire company and could be one of the biggest stars in the US if they can get eyeballs on him, I don't think that he's the guy who's going to get that initial viewership.

LK3185
02-06-2019, 05:46 PM
I think the TV deal and what kind of exposure it grants AEW is more important than any one talent because TNA has been in simliar situations and brought in WWE stars only for it to be a small spike in interest and then due to mismanagement or what have you, they've wound up streaming shows on twitch.

If Khan is willing to spend and they have good tv deal, they can add that big name a few months after that or hope that the shows get good word of mouth around and build that way. It doesn't have to be Orton either and he might not even bring those casual viewers. What i'm trying to say is if you're only getting a short spike of viewers because brought in a WWE name, there are other guys to go after.

Bring in Goldberg for an appearence.... etc.

The guys coming up for contracts, like AJ Styles currently i'd say is a bigger name than Orton who is still majorly over. And would fit. Go after him.

Prime Time
02-06-2019, 05:51 PM
I'm not exactly the best judge of this, so I'll open it up as a question for others. Do you get much more out of having Orton than you'd already have out of having Jericho?

It could be that I underestimating the reach of Orton but it seems to me that the only real thing he might have over him is that he's 10 years younger.

LK3185
02-06-2019, 05:56 PM
Well, Jericho hasn't been on WWE TV for awhile. Orton is about to challenge for the WWE title. So that might be a factor... But i'm not sure how big a factor.

I'd def say Jericho is a bigger star..

And I also think anyone that would pull in casuals would probably be Cena or The Rock.. which we know ain't happening.

Team Farrell
02-06-2019, 07:33 PM
I'm not exactly the best judge of this, so I'll open it up as a question for others. Do you get much more out of having Orton than you'd already have out of having Jericho?

It could be that I underestimating the reach of Orton but it seems to me that the only real thing he might have over him is that he's 10 years younger.
I mean, not really. I've never seen Jericho as a major major star, but he's done a masterful job convincing the entire world that he is over the last 18 months.

I would put Orton in the same boat, but I see him as someone that more modern wrestling fans would recognize. Again, if I only watch Raw and Smackdown each week, Jericho is a pretty big star but Orton is a guy who's on top and marketed as a god among men today. That whole RKO outta nowhere meme made him a weird hit with kids a few years ago, too.

Well, Jericho hasn't been on WWE TV for awhile. Orton is about to challenge for the WWE title. So that might be a factor... But i'm not sure how big a factor.

I'd def say Jericho is a bigger star..

And I also think anyone that would pull in casuals would probably be Cena or The Rock.. which we know ain't happening.
Cena or Rock are going to pull a million viewers on night one just out of curiosity alone. But someone like Orton, AJ Styles who has had the WWE Machine pushing him as the best on the planet for the past few years, Big Show, Bray Wyatt, Dean Ambrose, these are all guys who have gained a sizeable enough fanbase (Randy Orton has more Twitter followers than AWE, Cody and the Bucks combined for example) through their WWE exposure that if they can get the word out, will have people follow them.

Where TNA failed with the WWE guys was that they were immediately rocketed to the top at the expense of their own talent and the rest of the card was often in such shambles that there was no reason to keep watching. These guys would bring in viewers on their name alone, but it's up to the company to make those viewers stick around.

Prime Time
02-06-2019, 08:24 PM
I guess the question then becomes how much of the casual audience started watching after Jericho left for the first time in 2005, and what percentage has been watching back into Attitude.

I suppose that's at the crux of the issue for me - how does a top star in a fairly weak business period match up to a second-tier star in a huge boom?

It strikes me that more people would know the latter, but knowing isn't enough, it's giving a shit about what they might be doing, which is where it all gets trickier to be sure about anything.

Maybe the other question is how many people have to follow a wrestler to make it worthwhile? If 99% of their followers desert them the second they leave WWE, then their value obviously wouldn't be as high as it appeared, so much much of their following has to be be 'hard support'?

mizfan
02-06-2019, 11:13 PM
Worth remembering putting Orton on top of WWE brands has typically seen interest nosedive. I recall him doing pretty low numbers when they tried to get him to carry Smackdown in the earlier part of the decade, and I wasn't under the impression he did much better after winning the title at Wrestlemania a couple years back. And after that he was basically demoted from the main event, what was his last top level program? The Jinder stuff from 2 years ago?

The average person on the street doesn't know Orton, and they don't know Jericho. The only name that qualifies by that criteria is Cena, and that's not happening. If we're just talking WWE casual fans, I find it tough to believe there's a large number that knows Orton but doesn't know Jericho, he was around in 2017 and the List stuff was more over than anything Orton's done since he was punting McMahons. I could be wrong but I just don't think Orton is gonna be their ticket to top level name recognition. WWE tried to get him to that level for close to 20 years but they couldn't make it happen, and I don't think it'll happen now.

LK3185
02-06-2019, 11:37 PM
I think the casual WWE fan isn't looking for an alternative so you're really talking about Orton fans wanting to follow his career.. Its a short term gain at best in my opinion. Maybe it adds some credibility and buzz seeing that if AEW brought in someone like Orton, then obviously not doing this on the cheap. Jericho is one thing, throwing money around to other top WWE guys is another.

I just prefer it be AJ if it was anyone.

comfortablynumb
02-06-2019, 11:49 PM
If you’re going to obscenely overpay for someone, make it Lesnar not Orton. He’s that top rare top level star and will gladly take money.

LK3185
02-06-2019, 11:53 PM
I see that side, but Brock is commanding so much money, he has to draw and I don't know if he really does in 2019. Shows he's been on have been flat attendence wise, he doesn't spike ratings when he's on Raw. My thinking with Orton is if he goes to AEW, it would be for more money but not Brock type money...

Just saying Brock might want too much money to risk it..

Oliver
02-07-2019, 02:49 AM
Might the answer here - and I'm not saying this expecting anything good, mind - be Batista?

Breaking out into films as Drax, popular enough that WWE fans might hold an interest. Seems to have a pretty fluctuating relationship with WWE right now.

Thing is, if AEW doesn't get an Orton level of name, they're essentially only building a rival to NXT, and not Raw and Smackdown.

Cult Icon
02-07-2019, 03:18 AM
You guys are really underestimating Jericho I think. That's not to say grabbing either Orton, Batista or Lesnar wouldn't be a huge move, but other than Batista (who seems to want to just wrestle Triple H and disappear forever afterwards) those guys have their own flaws. As mizfan pointed out, Randy Orton was a top guy several times during better days than this and never drew well (I would argue booking him poorly for a long time helped contribute there, but either way it doesn't change that his time as top face or top heel runs were largely non draws), while Brock isn't the same draw he was just a few years ago. Jericho has his flaws as well (at his peak he was never Brock or Batista), but he's a name almost every wrestling fan, hardcore, casual or lapsed, recognizes and he's popular with the AEW crowd in a way some of these other guys (especially Orton) won't be (and you don't want to alienate your core audience, especially off the bat). He's not the long term solution, but for now I think he'll do just fine serving as a window in for other fans. Certainly if you can get one of those other guys, go for it. But I don't think it's necessary like some claim. There's an excellent chance AEW is going to wind up on TNT or TBS (which is in just as many homes as the USA Network) for good money, and that alone will give them exposure Impact and even NXT don't have.

Oliver
02-07-2019, 05:25 AM
Clearly, Cult, the answer is the Chairman of WCW.

Powder
02-07-2019, 08:15 AM
If you’re going to obscenely overpay for someone, make it Lesnar not Orton. He’s that top rare top level star and will gladly take money.


I see that side, but Brock is commanding so much money, he has to draw and I don't know if he really does in 2019. Shows he's been on have been flat attendence wise, he doesn't spike ratings when he's on Raw. My thinking with Orton is if he goes to AEW, it would be for more money but not Brock type money...

Just saying Brock might want too much money to risk it..

If AEW was to sign Brock, then one of the conditions has to be that he actually wrestles and does not just have each match be Suplex City. Let him use the suplexes obviously, but not only suplexes.

Imagine a match between Lesnar and Kenny Omega....

Team Farrell
02-07-2019, 12:13 PM
As mizfan pointed out, Randy Orton was a top guy several times during better days than this and never drew well (I would argue booking him poorly for a long time helped contribute there, but either way it doesn't change that his time as top face or top heel runs were largely non draws),
Keeping in mind though, Orton's draw at its dirt worst was still better than anything Impact or ROH were/are doing.


While Brock isn't the same draw he was just a few years ago.

I see that side, but Brock is commanding so much money, he has to draw and I don't know if he really does in 2019. Shows he's been on have been flat attendence wise, he doesn't spike ratings when he's on Raw. My thinking with Orton is if he goes to AEW, it would be for more money but not Brock type money...

Just saying Brock might want too much money to risk it..
These are basically the same thing.

It's all about perspective. Brock might not by putting 20k people into the Staples Center on his own (though, I'd argue with the right opponent and promotion he would), but if you're running monthly TV tapings, Brock (and I believe Orton, too) is the guy that's going to make sure you're putting 3,000 people into every taping. They are guys that are going to help draw eyeballs to your television product. Again, Brock moreso than Orton, but I would believe that Orton is good for 50k a week at least.


There's an excellent chance AEW is going to wind up on TNT or TBS (which is in just as many homes as the USA Network) for good money, and that alone will give them exposure Impact and even NXT don't have.
But this is why a name that people will tune in for is so important. Maybe Jericho is that guy and I'm off base. But while he helped New Japan's US numbers, it's not like he suddenly made them a juggernaut in the North American wrestling market.

It's not "if you build it, they will come". A show on TBS or TNT would be a huge advantage for them, but there needs to be something more than a show, but what's the hook for the 3,000 or so wrestling fans in the city I live in, who don't watch New Japan or ROH or anything else, to tune in? How are you going to get those people into our local arena? Cody, the Bucks and the other indy names are good for probably 750 of them, but is Jericho going to be the other bunch? Because last time WWE came to town Jericho was in the main event and I couldn't give away tickets. I literally stood outside the arena and tried.

mizfan
02-07-2019, 02:36 PM
Batista is one that really intrigues me. If he's willing and able, I could see him being a big difference maker, though my mind is boggling slightly trying to imagine him meshing with, say, Omega or the Young Bucks in the ring. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it's a trip.

100% positive more people know who Batista is than anyone mentioned here, including Lesnar. Don't know if that makes him a better draw than Lesnar, but his casual recognition is about as good as it gets thanks to the Marvel films.

comfortablynumb
02-07-2019, 02:53 PM
Batista would be an interesting guy to bring in for a quick run.

I’m not saying they should bring him in, they shouldn’t, but what’s The Undertaker’s deal now? Is he a lifetime legends contract? I see he’s taking non-WWE appearance bookings.

Cult Icon
02-08-2019, 02:39 AM
Well it's official; Kenny Omega is in and him vs. Chris Jericho looks to be the headliner for Double or Nothing. The other big news from this rally tonight (aside from it being a lot of fun) was the Lucha Brothers attacking the Bucks to set up that match, SCU vs. OWE and Pac vs. Hangman being made official, the Best Friends (Chuck Taylor and Trent Baretta), Sonny Kiss (XO Lishus from Lucha Underground), Kylie Rae and Nyla Ross all signing and the announcement of a new working agreement between AEW and AAA down in Mexico.

LK3185
02-08-2019, 04:02 AM
Looking forward to the show. Sorta of predictable matches but that's not a bad thing. I want to see Pac vs. Omega soon though.

Powder
02-08-2019, 08:14 AM
Does anyone know what platform the AEW show will be on?

LK3185
02-08-2019, 12:06 PM
Does anyone know what platform the AEW show will be on?

As in the Las Vegas show? I'd hazard to guess PPV and Fite.TV (internet PPV)

Powder
02-08-2019, 12:17 PM
Thanks.

LK3185
02-08-2019, 12:44 PM
its not definite but they don't have a TV deal and the first All in show was on PPV... so its a reasonable guess.

Cult Icon
02-08-2019, 12:53 PM
Looking forward to the show. Sorta of predictable matches but that's not a bad thing. I want to see Pac vs. Omega soon though.

The only match announced that I wasn't really into was the Omega-Jericho match. I'm not sure if it's because they already did it or because I was so set on wanting Omega to either wrestle Ibushi or someone new, but I was just left thinking "eh, it's alright" afterwards. If you think about it it's at least understandable why they did it though. The match has never been done on US soil so it will be a draw, there's no reason this match won't at least be really good (the last one was, whether we agree on the rating it got) and it sets up Kenny to go over the biggest mainstream name they have out of the gate, thus establishing him (to some degree) with a new audience as a big deal. So it's an understandable choice for a headliner that I'll enjoy when we get it. I just personally would've gone a different direction.

The rest of the card looks sick though. SCU vs. CIMA and two partners of CIMA's choosing will be interesting, especially if CIMA brings in Duan Yingnan and Gao Jingjia (two of his best, most exciting pupils). Pac vs. Hangman should be tremendous. And the Bucks vs. Pentagon and Fenix is MONEY! It's also pretty fresh; I know some people are saying it feels like they've wrestled each other frequently but not counting three way tag team matches or six man's, the Bucks vs. the Lucha Brothers have only happened three times. Not only that, those matches were in 2016 and 2017 (so not recent) and were either in PWG (which not everyone watches) or The Crash, which had no streaming at the time. So this is actually a relatively fresh match for a new audience between two of the best tag teams alive. It should be outstanding.

LK3185
02-08-2019, 01:31 PM
Besides PAC though, there's no one really for Omega to wrestle in AEW after they did the Pentagon match. That will change over time but I like putting Omega over Jericho and stamping that Omega is the top guy of the promotion. Once they get TV going and more established, we'll see what they do.

Basically, i'm more excited about the aftermath of the Las Vegas show than anything else.

Powder
02-08-2019, 01:42 PM
What about Cody? Is he going to be an active wrestler, or the lead guy behind the curtain? He is still very young at 33, and could be a challenger for the Top Title.

Mr Chop
02-08-2019, 01:49 PM
I think that match is the best possible, in terms of growing an audience. Jericho draws in people that don't normally watch non-WWE stuff, and Omega should keep them there.

Macho Mourn
02-08-2019, 02:55 PM
AXS was seen on the stream:

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51472292_2485595141469588_3703750599435616256_n.jp g?_nc_cat=109&_nc_eui2=AeFhqbt9hj2quPwWMDswXpKYEBGhSnj8EZ6gHkoVH 8MdjrHVMfpbuQRqWoceGJTOCqfac0FfY2nfl7iM5D36mbUldkm rRDYD90vbDP3rX8KIBg&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=da4aa784229a45e138f001dca3ea4c17&oe=5CFA2954

mizfan
02-08-2019, 04:46 PM
Everyone is burying the lead here.

AJA KONG will be at Double or Nothing!!!

LK3185
02-08-2019, 05:35 PM
What about Cody? Is he going to be an active wrestler, or the lead guy behind the curtain? He is still very young at 33, and could be a challenger for the Top Title.

Cody had a knee injury and an operation this week scheduled I think. He might be ready for the next show but I don't think they want to commit to anything.

Also, i'm pretty sure he'll still be active wrestling

Mystic
02-09-2019, 12:11 AM
I think Jericho-Omega is smart. For those who haven't seen it, it's a really big deal. For those who have, they will expect and push for these guys to do it here, in AEW, as a main event, in a way it has not yet been done.

I thought Pac was damn good in his video. What a barbarian of graphic language. I love his disdain for the "elitist" and I left thinking, win or lose, he is going to put Page through some shit at Las Vegas.

My man, Pentagon, though. How great was that booked. At the night of the handshake, the Bucks PLAYFULLY called Lucha Bros the second best tag team (in a chill moment) and Pentagon was immediately in their faces. He fell back and all seemed OK. But the next time they saw them? Beat down and a package pile driver on the stage. That is how you book Pentagon.

It was a trip to watch. A true WCW fan can't see the MGM and not get nostalgic. There are some characters who are not my style and some of the constant fan interaction is new to me, but then, in the segments where guys are serious and there is heat, it felt like damn WCW to me.

A weird night but a good one.

They did the biggest thing they needed to do: sell tickets.

The greater storylines will come the closer we get to TV. I am a guy who wants that, too. But the most important thing on these one-off-ish nights is to get tickets sold and to have fans leaving happy. They did the first part last night and I do believe these matches, along with Starrcast II, will take care of the second half.

meandi
02-13-2019, 01:47 PM
Early report is that Double or Nothing general tickets sold out in 4 minutes. Apparently the pre-sale tickets sold out in 30 minutes the other day. Signs of good things to come, or still too early to tell?

LK3185
02-13-2019, 04:25 PM
Early report is that Double or Nothing general tickets sold out in 4 minutes. Apparently the pre-sale tickets sold out in 30 minutes the other day. Signs of good things to come, or still too early to tell?

Good news for sure. The next step is transforming this event promotion into a TV promotion that can grow its base. We know All Elite can sell out 20 K, probably even 30K if they try before TV but TV and doing a show weekly is why The Khan family got into it. To make money.

meandi
02-13-2019, 05:10 PM
Hopefully them selling out so fast helps seal the deal on getting a good tv spot.

mizfan
02-13-2019, 11:21 PM
Sounds like good news to me!

Mystic
02-14-2019, 02:03 AM
None of us can forecast the future, so the good news now is good news.

I think the TV deal is going to happen. The rumors have consistently been October or so. Do they sink or swim on TV? I hope swim. But, regardless, All In was damn good news. Double or Nothing is good news. One run on TV, despite what happens one way or the other, is still more good news.

I'm speaking to myself as much as anyone, but I feel like it's human nature to quickly take the big news and good news for granted and always think of the bad. The thing that is the threat gets attention.

But we also just need to sit back at times and let good news be good news.

It's been nothing but good news so far.

And that is good news.

LK3185
02-14-2019, 08:40 AM
I'm just saying this is different than the last show because it was just the Elite. I'm sure if they had wanted to and were able to afford it, they could run a show every four months and do well. The Khan family got involved though, so now there's bigger goals. Its great news they sold out but there's nothing wrong to looking to the future or just enjoying the moment of course.. Just wanted to say i wasn't trying to be negative or anything

Cult Icon
02-14-2019, 12:25 PM
I don't know if there's a TV deal done but there's definitely something big brewing in that department. For one, Jericho would not have thrown in with these guys if there was no TV or if they were just gonna wind up on AXS or something like that (and to Mourn's post, AXS is only listed there because they are responsible for helping move tickets to all events under MGM properties. They are not involved with AEW otherwise). Secondly, there are reports that AEW had two TV offers on the table as of two weeks ago and had also met with one potential Network the weekend of February 2nd. Well where were Cody, the Bucks and most of the AEW contingent February 2nd? Atlanta; they flew into Atlanta Friday night for that indie show they appeared on (the one where Pentagon and Fenix all but joined them) and then took in the Super Bowl on Sunday. What media conglomerate just happens to be stationed out of Atlanta? None other than Turner Broadcasting System, the owner of big time cable stations TNT and TBS. No one has come out and talked about it but given reports and where AEW was that weekend, it's pretty clear they were negotiating with Turner to get onto either TNT or TBS, possibly both.

As for an agreement and when it will be announced, I think everyone needs to remember that TV stuff is a complicated process. My guess is AEW and whoever they're negotiating with (TNT, TBS, some other network out there) were waiting to see how Double or Nothing sold. Now that we've seen it sell out so quickly (proving there is some sort of demand) they'll go back to the table and get something hammered out quickly. Even then though I'm not sure when we'll hear about it, as Networks love to save announcements for new shows till a certain time (mostly in the Spring). I doubt a deal is done as of now but for all we know it could be and whoever the Network is just wants to wait until then before making an announcement, especially since any AEW likely isn't coming to the fall. Either way I don't think TV is a concern. They're clearly negotiating with some one big and talent like Jericho wouldn't be there if they weren't confident. It's just a matter of how far along in the process they are and when the Network they sign with will want to make it public.

Mystic
02-14-2019, 01:16 PM
I'm just saying this is different than the last show because it was just the Elite. I'm sure if they had wanted to and were able to afford it, they could run a show every four months and do well. The Khan family got involved though, so now there's bigger goals. Its great news they sold out but there's nothing wrong to looking to the future or just enjoying the moment of course.. Just wanted to say i wasn't trying to be negative or anything

I'm definitely not knocking your take. Any of us that are excited about this are bound to have a range of emotions/reactions/wonders/worries. I am usually the realist-to-pessimist in life, but, for whatever reason, I keep feeling good about this.

I do have a question for Cult, or anyone else. How much do we believe the reports of monthly shows until potential TV in October that came out recently? Would you all advise this or pace it out more? My worry would be the need to have good attendance for each. Do you throw all the potential matches we can look forward to together before TV even happens? I don't know. I liked the idea of DoN, a Jacksonville show, and one before TV launch. What are the pros/cons of doing one monthly until TV to you all?

Cult Icon
02-14-2019, 02:37 PM
That report was 100% false. No other place reported that besides Wrestle Talk (which is an iffy source of info to begin with) and it was revealed that the place they said AEW was using in England was booked throughout August, the month that show was supposed to take place. Unless something has changed the plan still appears to be Double or Nothing Memorial Day weekend, the Jacksonville show (possibly in July) and All In II (likely to be called All Out) the first weekend of September. Honestly that's what I would do myself, with a few more of these rallies they've done thrown in. I don't know how many in these parts have checked them out but, aside from technical difficulties for the Jacksonville rally, I found both to be a lot of fun and successful in setting up exciting matches. I'd keep doing one a month to roll out talent/announce matches, run an angle or two and use Being the Elite otherwise to build to the shows.

Cult Icon
02-14-2019, 11:52 PM
Potentially big update regarding the AEW related convention Starrcast happening the day before. Two big wrestlers were announced for the convention today. The first was the Undertaker; yes that Undertaker! He will be at Starrcast. The second was this guy.


https://j.gifs.com/nrv33p.gif


Get your plane tickets ready Ollie!

mizfan
02-15-2019, 04:29 PM
Taker is certainly a surprising name to be added!

Team Farrell
02-15-2019, 06:53 PM
So that's gotta be a case of Conrad doing some brother-brothering, right? Calling up the father in law to make a phone call on his behalf.

Benjamin Button
02-16-2019, 03:59 PM
Ms Fleir's titled her pursuit for Comrad as a flair for a fatty

meandi
02-17-2019, 09:38 PM
Huh?

mizfan
02-18-2019, 02:11 PM
Yeah, that's a bit of an odd one.

The thing that catches my interest at the moment is Cody's mystery opponent for Double or Nothing. I can think of a bunch of guys that would be good but nobody comes to mind as a slam dunk. Anybody got a good guess about that one?

meandi
02-18-2019, 02:41 PM
I suppose CM Punk would be pretty cool. Could even play into the first event where Punk said he would entertain an offer, but Cody never sent a proper one.

LK3185
02-18-2019, 02:44 PM
I can't think of anyone that's on the roster that doesn't have a match yet. i think its an outsider

Edit: I guess it could be punk but then you're banking on him doing PPV numbers for you or securing a TV deal....

mizfan
02-18-2019, 05:20 PM
Oh for sure it'll be someone surprising, otherwise I don't think they'd make much mystery about it.

Punk would be BIG, I could see it as a possibility but I'm definitely not holding my breath.

I keep forgetting DON is all the way out in May, so conceivably it could be Scurll. He's been playing it up a little like he was abandoned by the rest of the Elite so I could see some mileage with that.

Or if they're waiting see if they can sign Ambrose or someone, it could be that.

Those feel like the most impactful possibilities, but there's also a wealth of on the cusp fresh talent they could try to introduce in a big way.

Mystic
02-18-2019, 08:34 PM
I still want it to be some version of Scurll-but-not-Scurll. Whether that means Scurll comes out as the mystery opponent (but Cody won't wrestle him so someone either with Scurll or not with him attacks/wrestles Cody) or Scurll comes out trying to talk to Cody but Cody doesn't really have time for it because he has the match. Either way, I'd want someone else to attack Cody and wrestle him, but with the long build to TV of Scurll feeling rejected and maybe the Elite not taking it so seriously, having him go in as full blown enemy of those folks by the last show before TV or TV.

Edit: Everything these guys touch turn to gold. They befriend each other, they make moves to AEW together. Sell out All In? How 'bout in 30? Double or Nothing? In 4. Want your friend Kenny Omega to be part? Of course he turns down everything to be part. Everything according to plan, but the Villain has the power, by withholding himself, of keeping this picture from ever being picture perfect. In BTE, they left before him, he was the last to know, and now he's walking around in an All My Friend Are Dead shirt. It doesn't have to happen in the segment with Cody, but I really hope he robs the Elite of their picture perfect moment but not falling into frame.

Edit-edit: I also just want to watch him beat Cody down with an umbrella.

LK3185
02-20-2019, 01:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rNWR2-9b58&feature=youtu.be

mizfan
02-20-2019, 03:10 PM
Don't have time to watch at the moment, any big news?

Cult Icon
02-20-2019, 03:12 PM
The Over the Budget battle royal is returning, the winner gets some unknown prize and it'll feature Sonny Kiss, Brandon Cutler (officially signed) and Kip Sabian.

mizfan
02-20-2019, 10:44 PM
You'd think that budget would have gone way up with the Khan's being onboard. ;)

Nice to hear Cutler was signed, so weird how he fell off the face of the earth a few years back and suddenly showed up again, but I've always liked the guy. I enjoy Sabian too, is he also signed?

Oliver
02-21-2019, 09:11 AM
Weirdly, my first thought looking at that video image is that Cody's starting to look a lot like his Dad...


Potentially big update regarding the AEW related convention Starrcast happening the day before. Two big wrestlers were announced for the convention today. The first was the Undertaker; yes that Undertaker! He will be at Starrcast. The second was this guy.


https://j.gifs.com/nrv33p.gif


Get your plane tickets ready Ollie!

Man, you know I'd be doing this.

LA Park vs Kenny Omega for 2019 MOTY.

Mystic
02-21-2019, 11:48 AM
Weirdly, my first thought looking at that video image is that Cody's starting to look a lot like his Dad...


Or...like Jean the frog from Breath of Fire II?

88

For the love of Terry Funk
03-12-2019, 11:04 AM
I don't know much on this so sorry if it's a dumb question but what's going to be the best way to follow AEW?

LK3185
03-12-2019, 11:35 AM
Through social media and youtube so far. The next show will likely be on PPV. There's no TV deal announced yet.

Mystic
03-12-2019, 11:41 AM
I don't know much on this so sorry if it's a dumb question but what's going to be the best way to follow AEW?

They release a Youtube video weekly (maybe on Wednesdays?) called "Road to Double or Nothing."

They release "Being the Elite" videos weekly (maybe on Mondays?)

Here is the most recent edition of Road to Double or Nothing, episode 6:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A0VN1YysZU

mizfan
03-12-2019, 05:17 PM
Haven't watched that yet but I'm excited! I never really watched Being the Elite but the Road To videos have been really well done so far, I'm getting very invested in DON.

meandi
04-09-2019, 01:05 AM
Surprised nobody has been talking Good Ol' JR and what he said last week... AEW has a TV deal. According to him... it's a big television station and "when we find out... we'll be shocked". (That last part was totally paraphrased.) Seems to me the way he was going on about it is that it's going to be TNT. That would be pretty freaking awesome 'cause, you know... history.

Benjamin Button
04-09-2019, 06:37 AM
TNT or TBS would be sweet..I'm thinking Syfy :O

Mystic
04-09-2019, 10:29 AM
Jericho said the same when he signed. Everyone involved with AEW has said the same. Whether that's a network that we are excited about or not might depend individually, per how high our hopes are. My ideal would be TNT or TBS. Can't lie: I'd mark hard for Jim Ross calling AEW at 6:05 on TBS, but that's just cause I'm old and liked my childhood.

comfortablynumb
04-09-2019, 10:41 AM
Would SyFy or any NBC/Universal station be on the list because of WWE's relationship?

TNT or TBS would be great. An outside the box would be like Discovery channel. It'd be a weird fit but it's in a ton of homes and they have a lot of redneck/blue collar/working man programming.

Cult Icon
04-09-2019, 11:34 AM
The Networks I continue to hear are TNT, TBS or the Paramount Network (formerly Spike TV). They make sense as well given JR said the network was one we all recognize (TNT and TBS are highly recognizable and Paramount is as well, despite the name change) and Meltzer recently reported that both networks AEW negotiated with having streaming services (Viacom, Paramount's parent company, recently bought the Pluto streaming service while Turner Sports has B/R Live). So it's one of those two. My feeling remains that its one of the Turner stations given (and I can't believe more people have talked about this) AEW brass was reported to have met with a TV Network back in February at the same time they were all in Atlanta (where Turner is located) for an indie show. That's a key detail I've seen no one pick up on and its the biggest hint to where they're going.

I also believe this deal has been done (or 95% done) for at least a couple months and AEW has been holding off on announcing it for two reasons. First, Wrestlemania season. Obviously an AEW TV deal is big news at any time but there's a good chance it would've gotten lost in the news cycle while WWE was gearing up for their biggest show (Cody has also made it clear that Mania weekend is WWE's, so it's likely they also wanted to keep the news separate from that). Now with Mania season in the past and Double or Nothing is the next big wrestling show it leaves the door open for AEW news to be front and center, and I'm willing to bet we'll be getting a flood of news from them in the coming weeks, including the TV deal. The second reason; TV upfronts. I mentioned this months ago but networks like to announce upcoming shows they have in the fall during the end of April/beginning of May. Both Paramount and TNT will be making announcements regarding new shows during that time for example. Thus it makes sense that both AEW and the Network (whichever one it is) would want to wait till that to unveil the deal; that it also falls after Mania season and during the Road to Double or Nothing is just an added bonus.

Either way, I'm pretty sure this deal is done, I'm pretty sure it's TNT (with an outside chance of Paramount) and I believe we'll know about it before Double or Nothing airs. At the latest it'll be announced at the show, but I'd look towards the end of this month/the beginning of May for the official announcement. I'd also expect more talent announcements too. AEW already announced Hikaru Shida (an amazing joshi wrestler) this morning, Jon Moxley appears to be finally free and I know of at least one other signing that I personally am really stoked about.

Mystic
04-09-2019, 01:00 PM
I greatly appreciate the sober report, Cult. I will be the first to call out AEW if I think their booking/approach is off, but the wrestling climate really makes me fear that, for old school fans like me, we just can't have nice things in this era. I'm not talking about anyone here, first off, but I am talking a general sense I get from a lot of fans in a lot of spaces. If a company wants to build suspense, it's not even thought that "suspense" could be the reason. It comes off to too many people that the company is just lying and hiding and nothing is true until you report it but after you report it you have no build or suspense.

If AEW could do one thing (and I'm talking to my kindred old-school spirit in Cody), I hope they will do the difficult work of teaching patience to fans for the sake of suspense in storytelling. Otherwise, we should just cancel all wrestling on all networks and streams, and just have someone report what would have happened that week on a news thread.

Love the slow build, and I get as impatient as anyone. But I also know what qualities *must* be present in good storytelling.

mizfan
04-09-2019, 07:45 PM
TV deals are great but I'm most hyped about signing Hikaru Shida! Shane may remember this absolute gem we covered on AAAE:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSuHTPZ5MOk

Mystic
04-09-2019, 09:56 PM
I do remember her from that Convince Me! segment.

Though, even if I didn't, just from the announcement image, I thought, "This person right here is legit."

AEW is building up that women's division.

Cult Icon
04-12-2019, 12:41 PM
Some more news. AEW is indeed going to TNT and it will be announced May 15th. Everyone is being careful and not saying its fully done yet (The Wrap and Meltzer have both indicated negotiations are in advanced stages) but it looks like it would take a massive change for this deal to fall apart. If for some reason it were to, there is another potential offer on the table (no one has said who but, like I said before, Paramount would be the best guess) and Showtime has apparently reached out to them at one point, so there's definitely options if the TNT deal flames out. That said, I'd be stunned if that were the case.

Meanwhile, AEW announced that Glacier will be in the Over Budget Battle Royal earlier today and that Darby Allin has officially signed. Allin is a terrific high flyer with a great presentation; that's a great signing for them.

mizfan
04-12-2019, 02:36 PM
Allin is actually one of their best signings so far, bar none. I see real star potential in Allin.

Mystic
04-12-2019, 06:33 PM
Also Brian Pillman Jr in the battle royal!

He is green now, but if he comes into his own, I damn sure want to be the company that benefits from it.

God love this world, if I've lived long enough to see wrestling on TNT again and it includes the Rhodes family, the Pillman family, and potentially guys like Jon Moxley who always had a TNT/WCW vibe (to me) more than a WWF vibe (save the Attitude Era where WWE was not like itself in order to survive.)

I would not have prophesied this day, put money on it, believe in it, or thought it possible.

mizfan
04-13-2019, 05:31 PM
I'm looking forward to getting to know Pillman Jr better! I've been burned by a lot of 2nd generation stars but hope springs eternal, and when you get a really good one, it can be amazing.

Cult Icon
04-15-2019, 12:09 PM
We had one official talent announcement on Being the Elite today and several alluded incoming talents. The official announcement is that CIMA is signed with AEW full time, so he will not just be a part time wrestler/liaison with OWE for AEW. The alluded to signings were East Coast tag team Private Party (Isiah Kassidy and Marq Quen), So Cal based wrestler Pretty Peter Avalon (who will be the Librarian character they've been teasing) and Canadian tag team The Super Smash Brothers (Evil Uno and Stu Grayson). I'm not entirely familiar with Private Party or Avalon (mizfan may know more about the latter) but the Smash Brothers are an incredible tag team who were once of the best acts in PWG and have still been killing it in Canada (they had a great match with the Bucks for ROH last year when ROH went to Toronto). They are easily one of my favorite signings for AEW, with the exception of an announcement that hasn't been announced yet.

mizfan
04-15-2019, 02:27 PM
Definitely digging the idea of signing the Smash Bros! They also had a great run in CHIKARA, though that's near on 10 years ago now. I do know a fair bit about Peter Avalon and I think he's a good choice for a supporting player. Not sure he's a star in his own right but he'll do what he needs to to get a match or character over, solid midcard pickup. Don't know much about Kassidy or Quen but I'm interested to check them out. AEW has got a real nice roster going on!

Mystic
04-15-2019, 08:23 PM
I've seen Avalon a couple times, and I echo mizfan. I'll stay openminded, but he struck me as a third tier version of the antagonistic heel. Not even a knock, just a first impression. I could definitely see him doing the librarian. Might already prefer the dude Cody was talking to at the start of BTE.

Anyways, best part of BTE was seeing MJF face-to-face with Darby Allin. First time he did a backstage segment on these videos where the person with him (outside the Elite) felt like they mattered. Could be a damn good feud, potentially.

Mystic
04-19-2019, 11:47 AM
Per my sources, AEW is signing a big money TV deal, in which they will not get any money and will pay for TV. The show will be half a year, all year, and will run for 1 hour, 2 hours. The show will be on TN, but not TNT, as Turner isn't willing to put all 3 letters in yet. Also, Turner is very big on AEW. Hope that clears things up.

mizfan
04-19-2019, 04:12 PM
It's the reports that seem to be rooting for AEW to fail or be in trouble that really irritate me. Not a mindset I can easily understand.

Cult Icon
04-20-2019, 01:53 AM
First off, these reports over the past few days have been over blown. The guy who "broke" this "AEW is doing a time buy deal with TNT" story, Wrap reporter Tony Maglio, was heavily misquoted; he clarified today that his sources are telling him that a huge rights fee deal for AEW is highly unlikely, but that they'll still be getting some sort of money from this. He's also said that it's more likely that what reporters like Dave Meltzer, Voices of Wrestling and Sean Ross Sapp are hearing (that there is no time buy deal on the table) is likely right, and that even if it is a time buy it's something where AEW will still make money. There is legit no cause for alarm on that, and the only reason there was a reaction is because a small but very vocal group of people on Twitter, led by this WWE super fan Fray and an anti-Melzter guy called Meltzer Says What? (another user named rovert is a lesser extent involved in this too), tried to push it as such. They did this partially because they want AEW to fail and partially because of some weird ass war they have with Meltzer, who they feel has a ton to do with AEW when in fact all he's doing is reporting news he's clearly getting fed from them. People were even trying to turn this recent story into Meltzer vs. Maglio, which both rightfully sniffed out.

In reality, aside from those wackos and their cult, I don't think there's actually that many people who want this to fail (and even this rovert character has celebrated some of AEW's signings). I do think there are some people annoyed with all the buzz they have (which I don't get either; why be annoyed that people are excited about something) but the indication I get is most people want to see this succeed and are rooting for it to succeed. Unfortunately there will always be a set of fans on either side of the coin who want to see the other side burn. They should be paid no mind. The wrestling world is better with both WWE and AEW on TV drawing good ratings, making good money and giving workers a chance to get paid. Anyone who doesn't think that isn't actually a wrestling fan; they're a fan of a brand.

mizfan
04-20-2019, 10:17 AM
Definitely good to hear, Cult. The way some of these weird-ass narratives get started...

Cult Icon
04-20-2019, 07:54 PM
Cody vs. Dustin Rhodes is official. As Dustin says it's one last ride...or is it?!

Benjamin Button
04-20-2019, 08:00 PM
I grew up on Dustin, but there's no nostalgia that makes me like this one. It's been a long time for Dustin at making news. And it seemed he was grasping for straws when coming up for the reasoning behind the match. I will say at least they're trying to make it emotional and the two should have a good match. I just think Dustin in a knock off Goldust attire is playing with fire. And to be honest, while he's in great shape and still puts on fine matches, it's been a long, long time since he's been relevant.

SirSam
04-20-2019, 08:55 PM
Just posted this over on the All About All Elite Page and thought this part probably belonged here.



Now onto something awesome and litterally just as I was listening to your opening rants on the podcast (btw, FUCK those guys (those guys bieng those acting gleeful at AEW having to pay for TV time), who even cares who is paying for what if they have good wrestling on TV - and if their paying GOD is that a ballsy move that we will celebrate down the line if it pays off - talk about going ALL IN) I saw the latest Road To and BOY is that a story I can sink my teeth into.

I had actually been planning a column for next week saying that Double or Nothing needs a proper story with some emotional stakes beyond the meta story of 'can these guys pull it off'. Up until now there has been some fun looking matches and some really interesting characters that I want to see more off but nothing that has truly grabbed me emotionally. That all changed immediately after watching the video.....



Go and watch it if you haven't already cause I'm about to spoil it.








FREAKIN' CODY RHODES! That guy was the heart of ALL IN and now him and Dustin are gona be the hearts of Double or Nothing. I got chills watching that video and the way they presented it was so damn good. I'm actually stoked we never got the pair of them in WWE, even though it was a missed opportunity then there is no way it would have been as engaging or heartfelt in that environment as it is now. With one video I went from starting to worry about AEW to jumping out of my seat excited.

I guess I should have guessed they were keeping their powder somewhat dry over Mania season so their biggest announcements didn't get lost in the deluge of news from that week and now just as Raw & Smackdown are starting to drift again and NJPW is just moving along to its next big show they have come in hard with the biggest play they have left.

Beyond this match that I'm so hyped to see build up having both Rhodes brothers backstage is huge.

Damn such a great signing.

mizfan
04-21-2019, 11:45 AM
Dustin's not the way I would have gone, but I've really enjoyed how many people I've seen get excited about the match and the video so far. I LOVE Dustin and I've no doubt they'll put on a really good show. I'll have a lot to say about the framing of the match on the next AAAE but I'm finding lots of reasons to feel optimistic.

Oliver
04-23-2019, 09:08 AM
I always really, really liked the Fastlane match Goldust and Stardust had, so I'm good to watch Cody vs Dustin do it again. A shame they never really got to take the shackles off in WWE, as they were clearly building and planning a longer feud than that one off match but it got nixed.

mizfan
04-23-2019, 12:05 PM
I think that's one reason fan response has been so positive about this. WWE had lots and lots of chances to do the match when there was high demand for it, but they only did it halfheartedly at best. It's a chance to see an interesting match in a place where it'll get the proper attention.

Oliver
04-24-2019, 05:05 AM
Yeah, I think it'll be cool. I kind of hope it's not just a one and done kind of thing, and they also don't make it too much about family and (especially) bring Dusty into it too much.

Man, he must be looking down and be so fucking proud of his boys right now.

mizfan
04-24-2019, 09:58 AM
Definitely agree, I think the family stuff should only go so far. I'm ok with Dustin taking Cody to task but I don't need to hear a lot of "Dusty loved me more!" stuff. I actually kind of do hope this is one and done, Dustin should probably be moving to a backstage role at this point in his career, though if he's got it in the tank I'm not opposed to him doing a bit more. My hope is after they wrestle they embrace, and then some heel comes out and beats both of them up. :)

LK3185
04-24-2019, 02:55 PM
Definitely agree, I think the family stuff should only go so far. I'm ok with Dustin taking Cody to task but I don't need to hear a lot of "Dusty loved me more!" stuff. I actually kind of do hope this is one and done, Dustin should probably be moving to a backstage role at this point in his career, though if he's got it in the tank I'm not opposed to him doing a bit more. My hope is after they wrestle they embrace, and then some heel comes out and beats both of them up. :)

This is a good idea because you can protect Cody if you need to in a tag match or make him the face defending his fallen brother... and that would work well for the TV product to come or whatever they do with that. I know Cody had an injury but I like that he's not positioned as the top guy in the company. He has a hand in running the company and could of easily been more selfish than he has been.

Team Farrell
04-24-2019, 04:01 PM
I mean, you don't need the "Dusty loved me more" family drama stuff, but it is a good way to create a personal issue between the two. Especially because I recall hearing at times from both that they somewhat resented one another. Dustin was resentful that Dusty made a point to be at home throughout Cody's childhood and attended all of his amateur meets and would actually miss time from the business to be there for Cody when he wasn't for Dustin, and a lot of this was at a time they they'd had a falling out. Whereas I seem to recall hearing Cody talk about how as much as he and his dad had that closeness, even when Dusty and Dustin were on the outs he always felt that they had a special bond between them until he got into the business himself because they were both wrestlers and he wasn't.

I'd almost like quazi heel Cody to take some shots at his brother about how he's the successful one, he's the one that Dream took the time for, he accomplished more than Dustin did, he didn't need the pain to be a star (and was at the lowest point in his career when it was forced on him), and how Dusty was more proud of him.

The truth is though that I think both men hold Dusty in such high regard, they wouldn't want to bring his name into this any more than they have to with the natural connection of both being his sons.

LK3185
04-24-2019, 04:15 PM
I think in truth it’s a difficult relationship to consider because of the age gap, they probably don’t have much in common but as Dustin states in the promo, he was there for Cody as much as he could be. I think the rift is really Dusty based but they don’t really need to go overboard with it

They could like coach says, talk about how Cody succeeded in a way that Dustin never could outside WWE. That Dustin is defined by Goldust...without saying it

meandi
04-24-2019, 06:35 PM
That could be good...

Cody: “You needed makeup to get over your entire career.”

Dustin: “And you couldn’t get the makeup over, so you went and ripped off Dad’s name.”

mizfan
04-25-2019, 10:14 AM
However they frame it, what I want in the end is a scenario where Cody earns Dustin's respect and he's able to move on to the next challenge, whatever it may be. Enough people want this match that it makes lots of sense for them to do it, but a big part of AEW's mission statement has been fresh faces, and as much as I love Dustin he ain't it.

Team Farrell
04-25-2019, 11:07 AM
I just read that WWE wanted Joey Ryan to come in to NXT. The thing that shocked me most about the story is that JOEY RYAN IS 39!? Holy shit. I've worked with the guy and I'd have put him in his early-to-mid 30s at most. That just blew my mind.

mizfan
04-25-2019, 12:27 PM
It's less weird when you remember he was a founding member of PWG back in 2003. Still, I could easily buy him 5 years younger than he actually is.

Cult Icon
04-25-2019, 12:32 PM
I just read that WWE wanted Joey Ryan to come in to NXT. The thing that shocked me most about the story is that JOEY RYAN IS 39!? Holy shit. I've worked with the guy and I'd have put him in his early-to-mid 30s at most. That just blew my mind.

This is true! I don't know where it's been reported but I was told around Mania weekend that he was going to meet with WWE, which blew my mind given how much WWE's fan base hates him and how much of a lock he looked to be AEW bound. I haven't heard definitively (so you can correct me if you have this info Coach) but the impression I got is things didn't go well. Which makes sense; I was told from the beginning that he took the meeting just to see if they gave him a blow away offer, but short of that he wasn't going to be making the jump.

Heisenberg
04-25-2019, 01:13 PM
I’d much rather the guy didn’t work anywhere I tune in to watch. But fast forwarding when he’s on isn’t that big of a deal. He has his niche group of followers but I can’t stand the guy.

mizfan
04-25-2019, 02:18 PM
Can't say I'm a fan either, though I respect his hustle and the way he's found this niche for himself. I liked him best in Lucha Underground when he turned down (but not off) the comedy stuff and had more of a character.

LK3185
04-25-2019, 03:58 PM
Doesn't Joey Ryan have an actual Porn Sponsorship? lol I don't even think he needs WWE money...

But also, I'm not really a fan. He was basically considered a bad wrestler before the Penis gimmick, and then after it just went too far. I laughed at the stuff he did at AEW but that's about it.

Cult Icon
04-25-2019, 05:08 PM
He's not the greatest wrestler ever but this notion that he's always been bad even before the penis gimmick is some revisionist history. He had a lot of really good matches with Super Dragon at the beginning of PWG (which many forget Ryan was a co-founder of) and he was one hell of a tag wrestler with Candice LeRae too before she left to become the captivating character of "Mrs. Johnny Gargano" in NXT (of all the things NXT has gotten wrong, I can't believe she's one of them). That match they had with The Young Bucks from a few years ago remains one of the best tag matches I've ever seen and while it's definitely remembered most for the beating Candice took, Ryan is legit very good in that match. He was also a really solid worker in LU as mizfan said. No the gimmick isn't for everyone and he's certainly not Bret Hart or Ric Flair, but on the whole Joey Ryan is a good worker and a very good overall performer. I think it's just easy to forget that given what he's been doing recently.

mizfan
04-25-2019, 05:35 PM
Yeah, Joey Ryan is a fine worker, not really a standout without the bells and whistles but by no means bad.

Cult Icon
04-28-2019, 07:24 PM
If you guys haven't seen the latest Road to Double or Nothing episode featuring Cody's retort to Dustin, I advise you to do it now. I'll even include the link for you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azQwNRD3H_o&feature=youtu.be

meandi
04-28-2019, 08:52 PM
Nice shot at HHH... “a piss-ant bodybuilder...”

Also, interesting name drop of Punk, as well.

mizfan
04-29-2019, 10:56 AM
Very good promo! The only thing which doesn't quite jive with me as taking Dustin as the avatar of the Attitude Era (in this instance) when you've got Jericho as one of your top guys, but I think you can fudge that for the sake of telling a good story.

LK3185
04-29-2019, 11:34 AM
Could have Cody go after Jericho next. Seems logical and their promos would be money. I know Jericho is there for a few years but doubt he'll be at every taping so someone has to write him out.

Thought the promo was brilliant. Cody isn't that great in ring but I find him so compelling because of his promo/character work. I loved how he's basically the brother that did everything right but that doesn't matter cause Dusty loved them both the same in the end as he should have.

Team Farrell
04-29-2019, 11:46 AM
I don't get where people say that Cody isn't a great worker. He's not as athletic as Kenny, sure, but he's also not trying to be. I'd say that he's not great if he was going out there trying to do stuff that was way outside his skill level and making it look shitty. But from what I've seen he works really hard and puts on some really good and compelling matches within his athletic limits. You'll never see a 450 out of the guy but he doesn't gas out three minutes into big matches either.

mizfan
04-29-2019, 11:56 AM
I also think Cody is very underrated in the ring. He's not a pure workrate guy but we have enough of those, he tends to bring a good helping of character and clear intention to his matches, at least when he has a story to sink his teeth into.

They've teased a Jericho/Cody conflict a number of times already, so actually yeah something like this could be an ideal segue, now or down the line.

Cult Icon
04-29-2019, 12:04 PM
Last year alone he had four matches (with Ibushi at Wrestle Kingdom, Kenny at the Cow Palace show, Aldis at All In and Kenny and Ibushi at King of Pro Wrestling) that were all objectively great to extremely great and not just because of his opponents. I wouldn't call him one of the best in ring workers alive but Cody can be excellent. The reason he doesn't get more recognition is a) he's more of a classic, old school American style worker (which is how he was trained. If he had come up in another system I think he would've been more like Omega and would've had the ability to pull of a similar style), b) he is a better promo than he is an in ring worker and c) certain people out there just really hate him. I'm still blown away at the anger aimed towards him, the Bucks and even Omega (though less so because it can't be denied how great he is) and I still don't even know why it exists. Because he won the NWA Title at All In (which wasn't his call; Billy Corgan and Dave Lagana made that decision). Because he left WWE? Because he had the gall to help create a new promotion? It's all very silly. At the end of the day though, once you get past all that and look really closely at Cody's big matches, you'll see he always delivers. That Aldis match at All In was expected to be a weak point of the show and it was instead the highlight, just based off heat and emotion alone.

LK3185
04-29-2019, 12:14 PM
Jeez guys, people can think a wrestler isn't 'amazing' in ring. I get defending and all that but THIS HAPPENS EVERY TIME someone brings up X wrestler.

I also never even said that I haven't enjoyed Cody's matches. I really enjoyed his NWA title win, the Kenny/Cody match at Supercard was pretty damn good i thought and hit most of the beats with it. I know Cody works hard.


Lets just please not take me (or anyone) being invested in someone's character work more than the bell to bell as a bad thing. Its not and if you think it is, maybe that's why millions of casual fans who don't get character work on the level of Cody's from any big promotion nowadays have LEFT PRO WRESTLING

Carry on.

Team Farrell
04-29-2019, 12:17 PM
Last year alone he had four matches (with Ibushi at Wrestle Kingdom, Kenny at the Cow Palace show, Aldis at All In and Kenny and Ibushi at King of Pro Wrestling) that were all objectively great to extremely great and not just because of his opponents. I wouldn't call him one of the best in ring workers alive but Cody can be excellent. The reason he doesn't get more recognition is a) he's more of a classic, old school American style worker (which is how he was trained. If he had come up in another system I think he would've been more like Omega and would've had the ability to pull of a similar style), b) he is a better promo than he is an in ring worker and c) certain people out there just really hate him. I'm still blown away at the anger aimed towards him, the Bucks and even Omega (though less so because it can't be denied how great he is) and I still don't even know why it exists. Because he won the NWA Title at All In (which wasn't his call; Billy Corgan and Dave Lagana made that decision). Because he left WWE? Because he had the gall to help create a new promotion? It's all very silly. At the end of the day though, once you get past all that and look really closely at Cody's big matches, you'll see he always delivers. That Aldis match at All In was expected to be a weak point of the show and it was instead the highlight, just based off heat and emotion alone.

I have seen a lot of people calling out Cody for booking All In just to "book himself to win the title just to drop it back to Aldis" which is silly as hell. Not just because, as you said, it wasn't his decision, but as if he and the Bucks would put all that money on the line and effort into promoting a show just so that Cody could book hismelf to win the title and for no other reason.

I think that the Bucks get hate because they used to do a lot of spotty bullshit and there's a segment of Jim Cornette's most hardcore fans that hate spots. Which, again, is silly as hell because even Jim Cornette likes The Young Bucks! He just thought that, until they toned down their style a little in recent years, they were a midcard spot tag team, and he wasn't willing to pay to fly them in from California when he was booking ROH because he figured that he could book a dozen other midcard spot tag teams from the Northeast. But, look, they've toned down their style just a hair and Matt sells like nobody else in the business, and suddenly they're the Rock & Roll Express reincarnated into 2019.

I don't get the hate toward them either. Maybe you're right and it's because they dared to start their own company? I mean, there's wrestling fans in their 20s and 30s now who would have no memory of WCW or ECW, so how dare anyone challenge the king and how could anything ever be as good!

mizfan
04-29-2019, 12:22 PM
Haha, definitely didn't mean to add to the dogpile, LK. I can definitely get not liking Cody as much in the ring as you like him as a character. I'm the same way to be honest, I think I just like his matches a bit more than you do.

The Young Bucks are a weird case because they've never just been one thing. For the past decade they've been capable of go-go-go spotfests, meta-joke comedy matches, or more straightforward story-driven fair. The first two styles have turned me off in the past but I do think anyone doesn't think they're capable of the third could stand to take a closer look, though even then they won't be everyone's cup of tea.

LK3185
04-29-2019, 12:31 PM
I guess im just saying that I like what Cody does a whole bunch, i'm more excited for this Cody/Dustin match.. probably most on the card but its not likely to wow me when it happens..

As for why people don't really care for the Bucks or Kenny or even Cody. I do think its tied to WWE fans being rubbed the wrong way by their success but also thinking that its um gate keeper stuff from that Bullet Club fanbase that bothers people more and projects bad things onto them.

Also, they can look like a bunch of annoying nerds sometimes lol.

But I like them and have come around on the Bucks especially. Who know who they are, and they know their audience and what they want to see.

I'm supporting AEW cause i'm invested in the people involved and I hope as we get the ball rolling, my passion for the company continues to grow and not fade out like so many other companies.

Cult Icon
04-29-2019, 12:38 PM
I wasn't aware there was a dog pile. I was responding to what Coach said and giving examples of why I think Cody is underrated and why people irrationally don't like them. Wasn't lumping you in there Lazyking.

LK3185
04-29-2019, 12:48 PM
its totally fine.. i overreacted i little. Just frustration from the wrestling.. um culture now because I don't feel like ring work should be this thing to be held up. It doesn't matter how many flips someone does or doesn't do if what they do makes you care and that's subjective for everyone in every match in the history of time

mizfan
04-29-2019, 02:28 PM
I also think it's entirely possible and valid to just not care for the wrestling style of various Elite members because of personal preference, and it's easy to lump that in with perceived "irrationality" (not that I don't think there are plenty of irrational people on the side of this, or any debate).

Prime Time
05-08-2019, 10:22 AM
Breaking news is Double or Nothing will be carried on ITV Box Office here in the UK, which will make it a lot easier for them to get a foothold here in the UK. They're also running a free preshow on ITV4 featuring a couple of matches.

Oliver
05-08-2019, 11:25 AM
Breaking news is Double or Nothing will be carried on ITV Box Office here in the UK, which will make it a lot easier for them to get a foothold here in the UK. They're also running a free preshow on ITV4 featuring a couple of matches.

Oh, that's pretty cool! I'll try and tune in if it happens, for sure.

Mystic
05-08-2019, 06:23 PM
Is it too soon to give Chris Jericho an award for his character work in AEW?

Cult Icon
05-08-2019, 10:30 PM
Three new signings guys. First, Jerry Lynn has been brought in as a "coach", though I presume that means he'll be working as an agent. Second, AEW has quietly signed two referees; Rick Knox of PWG and Lucha Underground fame was brought in about a month ago and longtime CHIKARA referee/hero of mizfan Bryce Remsburg was confirmed this week to have been signed. Finally, after having to keep quiet on this one for months, I can now happily inform you all that former AAA and Lucha Underground star Angelico is joining AEW! Ryan Satin reported the deal today and a formal announcement should be coming from Angelico tomorrow.

Oliver
05-09-2019, 04:33 AM
ANGELICO!

I hope AEW is running venues with balconies and raised platforms.

Cult Icon
05-09-2019, 12:31 PM
Not just Angelico either! In his official video announcement he revealed that Jack Evans is coming with him. In addition to that wonderful news, TheWrap has reported that the AEW/TNT deal is virtually done and will be announced next Wednesday at around 9 to 10 a.m. EST here in the states.

mizfan
05-09-2019, 01:46 PM
That's a wealth of good news! The outpouring of wrestler's praising AEW for signing Lynn to that role has been overwhelming, so clearly he's a good choice. Bryce and Knox are two of the best referees ever, I just hope they still are available for the respective home promotions of CHIKARA and PWG. Bringing on Angelico and especially Jack Evans is great, Evans is one of my favorite picks so far and I think he'll rock it out with this roster.

Benjamin Button
05-10-2019, 02:55 AM
Did not know about Evans...man, he's great! Would love to see him mix it up with Jericho as friend or foe.

Oliver
05-10-2019, 11:25 AM
Evans is one of those guys who I never really got into until Lucha Underground, and then got super into. Glad to see he's coming in. Weren't he and Angelica tag partners in AAA?

LK3185
05-10-2019, 01:30 PM
Yes and it looks from Angelico video that he and Jack Evans are coming in together

mizfan
05-10-2019, 02:38 PM
Yup, they were closely aligned for quite a while actually, to the point that they still wore their matching gear in LU despite not partnering up. Agreed on LU showcasing a new side of Evans, at least to me. I always liked the guy but he seemed like he was all spots and not much character until then, but the whole "I invented lucha libre" shtick killed me and he had personality spare once he decided to actually show it off.

Cult Icon
05-10-2019, 03:00 PM
They were three time AAA Tag Team Champions in AAA and probably would've been the key team in the division for years if AAA hadn't fired Jack for, and this is true, publicly criticizing the fake La Parka (Jack has since returned to AAA on a freelance basis). Once that happened Angelico, who had already moved to Spain, stopped appearing as much and eventually just left to work Europe. And now here we are.

Jack is tremendous and has always had this personality. The problem is he's so unbelievably gifted at the high flying stuff that it's hard to book him as a heel (which is a more natural role for him based off his ultra confident personality), which is why he was generally a face during his indie days. When he went to AAA with Teddy Hart Konnan positioned them as a rudo tag team and they thrived for awhile until Jack had to turn because, once again, his move set was so spectacular that he got over and they had no choice (Teddy meanwhile managed to master being a rudo, mostly because he was a major asshole in real life at the time, while also keeping his high flying style). LU was really the first place that booked Jack as a rudo and not only decided to stick with it but reinforced it by doubling down on Jack's persona; that ended up being the key to him standing out more. He's kept that same persona everywhere he's went since, most notably PWG where, back in 2015, he and Angelico had a killer match with the Bucks. The Bucks from time to time have raved about how much they loved that match, so that (and the fact WWE won't touch Jack because Jack loves his weed) was pretty much what led to this.

Oliver
05-15-2019, 10:55 AM
TNT deal confirmed:

https://twitter.com/tntdrama/status/1128632147248668673

mizfan
05-15-2019, 11:12 AM
Really, really pleased it's confirmed so hopefully it can stop being a point of conversation! Looking forward to checking out the show when it airs.

Cult Icon
05-16-2019, 01:00 AM
The only thing up for debate at this point is how much money AEW is getting in the deal. There was one reporter earlier (I believe he works for TSN in Canada) that said that while AEW won't be getting rights fees, TNT will be covering production and the two sides will be splitting the ad revenue in a favorable way towards AEW. It would basically be a case where AEW would earn money via that, PPV buys (more on that in a moment) and attendance; aka the old fashioned way promotions used to make money before WWE changed the game with TV right fees and the WWE Network. This report has since been slightly disputed by a few people to suggest AEW is being paid rights fees, so it's not conclusive either way.

Really, it doesn't matter. What does is that AEW will be on TNT, they will be shown in Prime Time AND they're making at least decent money off this. It's a terrific deal overall, even if it doesn't turn out to be anywhere near WWE numbers (it was never going to be). Now it comes down to them showing everyone what they can do. There will still be some controversy going into Double or Nothing as the show is being priced at $49.99 on WarnerMedia's B/R Live streaming service, $49.99 on several other PPV outlets (like Verizon Fios) and $59.99 on other PPV outlets like Comcast. That appears to be very steep and I'd normally agree. As it turns out though All In was priced at $40 on FITE and up to $45 on at least a few PPV outlets, meaning (unless you really just want to give $60 to AEW via Comcast or whoever) you'll really just be paying about $5 to $10 more than you did All In. It's still more than I would've done, but it's not as outrageous as some where claiming it to be in the never ending battle between people who think AEW is the greatest and WWE is the devil and people who think WWE is the greatest and AEW is the devil.

Team Farrell
05-16-2019, 10:46 AM
So, it's nice to see them with a big time TV deal (I wonder how Bischoff really feels) I hope that they can draw an audience.

However, I think that Double or Nothing is entirely overpriced. WWE had set the industry standard at a PPV being worth $10. I think that FITE somewhat has changed that. I spend $24.99 on the Crockett Cup a few weeks ago. That's my personal upper limit of what I'll spend on a PPV in 2019, and I'll be interested to see if we ever get any numbers on how this one does.

I hope that it does well, but I likely won't be shelling out $50 for the thing. I can't imagine paying that kind of money for a PPV, and I seem to recall that after WWE made the transition to HD and bumped all of their PPV events to that price range, their buys tanked. Say what you will about quality or whatever you'd like being a contributing factor, it is possible to price yourself out of the market, regardless of your quality and how much people might want to watch.

I hope that it does well, but with the level of negative feedback I've seen on that pricepoint, I think this might be a highly pirated show.

EDIT: Also, I can't find it on FITE. Is that because I'm in Canada, or is it no up for purchase yet?

Mystic
05-16-2019, 10:51 AM
You'd need to get it through B/R Live. I'm not sure it's up there yet, but they've confirmed that price and that's where it will be officially, as they are part of the Warner/Turner group.. I'm guessing B/R Live cancels out Fite.

My hope is that, in time, they will offer something like league pass for AEW on B/R Live, where you get all the additional footage and PPV. The current model doesn't seem sustainable, and I'm hoping it's only until they put together enough weekly content to do some sort of pass or the like through B/R Live.

I'm going to pay the 49.99, reluctantly, but I won't do this forever, especially if they have lots of PPVs. I would maybe do it 4 times a year or something.

comfortablynumb
05-16-2019, 10:55 AM
I don't think a mass pirating of the event is going to hurt them in the long run anyway, if it were to happen. This show is all about an introduction to the brand. I'm sure they'll take the loss over the exposure.

Oliver
05-16-2019, 11:10 AM
I think in the UK it's only something like £15 (about $18, I think?) to get it on ITV Box Office or whatever it's called. That's not too bad - the Network is a tenner a month.

Prime Time
05-16-2019, 11:13 AM
Worth pointing out that our attitude to PPV in the UK is so different that if they tried to charge that here, literally no one would buy it. WWE were still giving away a lot of their PPVs for free in the UK until 2005, don't forget, and it hurt their popularity here when they stopped quite significantly.

LK3185
05-16-2019, 01:24 PM
The All In show was $45 on PPV, I got it because i wanted to support the guys and i liked the card. This is a whole different deal though with being a start up company. They sort of have to g by the PPV model to make any type of money and pricing it at $50 for most that's steep but alternative is likely running more shows at a lesser price.

I think depending on the number of buys they get, they will adjust. Also i can't see them doing monthly PPVs. Isn't the next show in July?

Team Farrell
05-16-2019, 03:19 PM
I'm pretty sure the Fyter or whatever that stupid pun is for the next one is late June. And then again in July, and then likely All In II in September. It's shaping up like a monthly PPV schedule.

I dunno. Like I said, I think that the price point for the NWA show was perfect. They didn't have as high a talent budget or as much of a need to draw big money as AEW does, but with all of the streaming services that are already out there and people are paying for (NJPW World, Honor Club, WWE Network, ect.), plus FITE starting to catch on and pretty regularly having some strong content (but at a price per show), something is going to have to give whether it be the price point or shows beginning to see fewer buys. That could start to edge niche things like GCW right out of the online streaming market.

Once or twice a year for a major spectacle show you can probably get away with $50 for a show. Monthly and it's going to be diminishing returns.

Cult Icon
05-16-2019, 11:13 PM
I would be STUNNED if either Fyter Fest or Fight for the Fallen were priced like this. Remember that Omega pretty much did Fyter Fest last year under the New Japan umbrella, and that show was merely streamed on Twitch. I'd expect the same this time around. Meanwhile Fight for the Fallen is a tribute show where they're not planning on making a profit (all proceeds go to victims of gun violence) filmed in a place that barely sits 7K. I could be wrong but at worst I expect they'll be on B/R for a small price and more than likely will be for free either on Twitch or AEW's social media platforms. The next real big show will be Labor Day weekend in Chicago; whether that has this price or not depends on how well this one does.

The thing that hasn't really gotten around is that AEW didn't have a lot of control over this, something you'll notice if you look at how certain providers are pricing it. Some places like Comcast are asking for $60, others are asking for $50 (same as B/R). If AEW had full control over this it would likely be one price across the board, maybe a little less for streaming; the fact that it's all over the place tells you this was less them setting the price and more the providers because they think this show is going to be a hit. They may be right; it's forgotten that All In, in addition to being a good show, was wildly successful and as Lazyking pointed out that was with prices ranging up to just $5 less than most providers are charging for Double or Nothing. Everyone is trying to maximize profits, so if All In did well at the $40-$45 range, it's not unreasonable to think they can do close to, if not just as well, at the $50 range and make more money. I guarantee that's what the providers are thinking; whether it works or not remains to be seen but that's why. If it doesn't work, they can always change it.

And frankly I can't blame them and in many ways think this reaction to the price is vastly overblown. It be one thing if All In was priced between $25 to $30 and then hiked this high, or if everyone was asking the price Comcast is. But that's not the case. The reality is that the providers, and AEW by extension, are really just asking for $5 to $10 more than they did for All In; I get it if you don't want to spend that much because the card doesn't interest you, but if you are interested and paid the $40 to $45 for All In, was is it suddenly a big deal to spend $5 to $10 more?

Oliver
05-17-2019, 07:46 AM
TNT have a streaming service though, right? Any chance of that being used for these in the future, and you buy access to an AEW Network?

T.O.
05-17-2019, 08:54 AM
Only if it's $9.99.

Team Farrell
05-17-2019, 10:45 AM
I get it if you don't want to spend that much because the card doesn't interest you, but if you are interested and paid the $40 to $45 for All In, was is it suddenly a big deal to spend $5 to $10 more?

To me, yes it is. It's not that I don't have it. It's not that I'm cheap. It's that I'm already paying for The Network, I'm paying for NJPW World, I just bought Crockett Cup less than a month before Double or Nothing...at some point the amount I'm willing to spend on pro wrestling has to hit a ceiling.

I'll be running events that weekend anyway, but I had given some though to inviting the boys back to my place to watch it was sort of an after party. I'm not sure I'd bother at that price point.

NOTE: I literally just fired up FITE. Double or Nothing is finally listed...at $34.99. Perhaps the folks at AEW heard the outcry?

Cult Icon
05-17-2019, 10:58 AM
It's still $49.99 on B/R and I'd assume most of the other PPV providers so no. But this makes sense because, once more (you open the door!), it is the PPV providers coming up with this price, not AEW! I cannot stress this enough. AEW may have slight input, they may not be against the price (I honestly don't know) but at the end of the day the individual provider, be it FITE, Comcast, Fios, Cox, B/R, whoever, makes the call. That's why you see so many different prices between them all. If it were AEW coming up with them, I'd reckon they'd all be the same or at least in the same ballpark.

Also, Double or Nothing isn't available on FITE in the US and UK because of the PPV deals in those markets. It's only available outside in places like Canada, Australia and so on. That's probably a factor too in why the price is lower, possibly the exchange rates too.

Cult Icon
05-19-2019, 12:15 PM
This hasn't been posted here yet so I'll do it along with additional details as we currently have them. Unfortunately the Hangman Page vs. Pac match is off for Double or Nothing. To make up for it Page flew to England to do a fifteen minute match with Pac that ended in a draw; it'll be shown this week on one of AEW's social media channels. Once again though, the match will not take place at Double or Nothing.

Now why isn't it? It originally appeared to be a case of Dragon Gate requesting Pac not lose to Hangman because of his reign as DG's top champion, but recent information suggests that Pac was actually supposed to beat Hangman. The issue instead was a potential Pac-Omega match down the road in Chicago Labor Day weekend. AEW's plan appears to have been that both Pac and Omega would win next weekend then build towards a match in Chicago were the first ever AEW Champion would be crowned (the Pac & Lucha Brothers vs. Omega & Young Bucks match at Fyter Fest supports this). The issue is Pac is or could still be Open the Dream Gate Champion for Dragon Gate at that time or and Dragon Gate, who is pushing him as undefeated right now, doesn't want him losing. Thus, to avoid conflict, AEW scrapped this idea for now and will be replacing someone with Pac in the same position. If anything else comes out I'll update this. No news on who will be the replacement, though AEW is looking for a big name.

Oliver
05-21-2019, 07:50 AM
Shame, as PAC vs Omega certainly sounds like it could be killer. Understandable that DG want to protect themselves and their storyline work, though. Could AEW not have had PAC beat Page and then left open the options for the later show, in case PAC drops the title? And if he doesn't they could have worked something else out?

Cult Icon
05-21-2019, 09:42 AM
In theory they could've done anything they wanted. But at this point they have a long term plan in place and didn't want to mess with it. They also don't want there to be any draws or screwy finishes for most (if not all) of the matches this weekend, both because they don't have time to do a long draw and because they want all clean finishes to start off. So Pac vs. Page had to end clean on this show (whereas in the match they did in the UK they could do a draw) and AEW was then left with the choice of putting over Page (which they didn't want to do), putting over Pac (we know all the pitfalls of that now) or take Pac out and replace him with someone who can both win this match and put Omega over when needs be. They seemingly chose the latter. As to who the replacement is, I guess we'll just have to wait and see; I expect it'll be kept a surprise until the show.

Cult Icon
05-22-2019, 05:21 PM
The latest wrinkle; AEW announced today on the final Road to Double or Nothing episode that the winner of Omega/Jericho will take on the winner of the Casino Battle Royal at a future show (likely the Labor Day weekend show in Chicago) to determine the first ever AEW World Champion. The 21 person Battle Royal as of now features;

-Ace Romero
-Billy Gunn
-Brandon Cutler
-Brian Pillman Jr.
-Dustin Thomas (No Legs from GCW)
-Glacier
-Isiah Kassidy
-Jimmy Havoc
-Joey Janela
-Jungle Boy
-Luchasaurus (Vibora from Lucha Underground)
-Marq Quen
-Michael Nakazawa
-MJF
-Shawn Spears (Tye Dillinger)
-Sonny Kiss
-Sunny Daze

That's seventeen names, which means four slots are left open. None of those names seem likely to be an opponent for Omega (or Jericho) come September, at least by my estimation. I would be prepared for a big surprise.

LK3185
05-22-2019, 06:37 PM
Moxley or somebody not named Punk would be my best guess.

Edit: Any possible way it could be Scrull? or some New Japan guy?

T.O.
05-22-2019, 08:12 PM
Randy Orton?!?!

meandi
05-22-2019, 08:16 PM
I know it’s pretty much never gonna happen, but I’d love to see Cena show up a la Hogan in WCW in ‘94.

LK3185
05-22-2019, 08:31 PM
Unfortuntely, way contracts are now no one is jumping ship without us knowing. Takes some of the fun out of it.

Benjamin Button
05-23-2019, 01:45 AM
Kinda disappointed the belt is being decided this way, but I'm sure they're trying to raise the stakes for the PPV, since there aren't as many stakes without titles..Would have loved something that felt more like a tournament.


But I'm thinking Glacier will walk out the inaugural AEW champion! YA!

Oliver
05-23-2019, 06:10 AM
Glacier for the win.

It's a pretty slim field in that battle royale, it has to be said - which is fine until this stipulation got added. Presumably they're not going to run Page vs Omega for the title, so I would say the four names outstanding all need to be big enough to have a shout at winning the title to make some sense of a question mark exist over the eventual winner and challenger.

LK3185
05-23-2019, 09:44 AM
Heard that because of the PAC situation that they made the battle Royal more important cause I think PAC was to challenge Omega for the title

meandi
05-23-2019, 09:57 AM
Has it been confirmed that PAC is completely off the card, or just the match with Hangman Page has been canceled? Like, could he show up in the battle royal and get the win thus still setting up the title match with Omega (or Jericho, I suppose) further down the line and buying some more time to figure out the Dragon Gate situation?

Cult Icon
05-23-2019, 11:17 AM
It hasn't been confirmed completely but he's off the card. There's a better chance you see CM Punk on this show than you'll see Pac, although that's actually because there's a legit 25% chance Punk will be in this said Battle Royal.

Here's the deal; the original plan, as best anyone can tell, was that the winners of Pac/Hangman and Omega/Jericho were then going to face off at the Chicago show Labor Day weekend to crown the first AEW World Champion. Meanwhile the winner of the Battle Royal was going to receive a future title shot, presumably against whoever won the Chicago match. So despite the weaker field it was going to lead to a title shot, which likely meant there were still going to be some big surprises in the match. With Pac now out AEW apparently decided to use the Battle Royal to determine who will face Omega or Jericho, which makes sense given the stipulation it originally had but does feel a bit weird given that the field, while featuring some talented people, doesn't exactly feature any top names (the closest to me are MJF, Joey Janela and the former Ty Dillinger himself Shawn Spears, none of whom I can see winning). Unless today's Being the Elite hints otherwise, it all but confirms that AEW has at least one, probably two big names for the final four slots and one of them will be winning.

Now who could it possibly be? Jon Moxley is going to be the obvious first choice of many and I'd say it's quite likely. He's filming a movie now yes but that's something that can be worked around, and the fact that he lives in Vegas and would fit the big name criteria makes him the leader in the clubhouse. KENTA would be right behind him; he's free from WWE, he's a known name and him vs. Omega would be a big match for numerous reasons. After that you get into a lot of long shots. Ryback (who also lives in Vegas) is hurt, and probably not a big enough name anyway. Ditto for Wade Barrett, who is apparently retired. Joey Ryan (who I think most people would cringe at anyway) is booked for a show in Ohio. Jushin Thunder Liger and Minoru Suzuki are both freelancers who could step in without needing New Japan's permission, but the short notice of this situation makes both unlikely. Kota Ibushi, which would be MASSIVE, is supposedly exclusive to New Japan. Sasha Banks and Luke Harper, either one of whom would be an enormous get, are both stuck in WWE.

And then there's CM Punk. I'll level with you all here; at this point I would be stunned if Punk wasn't in AEW by the end of the year. The wind has been blowing that way since at least February and to those in the know it's just been a question of when AEW will want to unveil him. My original thought (before knowing the Omega-Pac scenario) was that Punk would appear after the Omega-Jericho match to set up him vs. Omega in Chicago, which would be, obviously, the biggest match anyone in wrestling could do right now given it would be for the AEW Champion, as well as serving as Punk's return match in his hometown (where he's still worshiped). That was clearly not AEW's plan, but with Pac now off the table it does make one wonder if they've moved up their plans with Punk (providing of course he is in the plans). Now he is booked to commentate an MMA show this Saturday night in California but a) the fights begin at least two hours after the Battle Royal would occur and b) they're only a comfortable one hour private plane ride away from Vegas and AEW has history using private jets to keep surprises hidden (that's how Jericho appeared at All In and then at a concert on the same night). It's not my pick for what will happen but it wouldn't floor me if CM Punk won the Battle Royal to set up him vs. Omega in Chicago. Even if he doesn't appear, it feels like only a matter of time before he will.

In the end though, my official guess for how the night goes is this. Darby Allin, who is signed with AEW and will be in Vegas this weekend, will take Pac's spot against Hangman to give Page a singles match. Moxley and KENTA will appear in the Battle Royal and Moxley will win to set up him vs. Omega for Chicago. Omega will then win that match and get confronted by Punk at the end of the show.

Edit: In the latest Being the Elite Hangman stated he wouldn't be competing at Double or Nothing due to the "injury" he suffered during the post match beat down he received from Pac. So that either means he's out or he's now entering this Battle Royal, which would frankly be a bit of a let down.

Benjamin Button
05-23-2019, 12:44 PM
Could NJPW allow one of their talents to go there without affecting their deal with Ring of Honor? Maybe a trade for Okada for a few matches with one of AEW's talents?

Thrusting Moxley in the world title picture would look weak. In my opinion.

meandi
05-23-2019, 01:10 PM
Here’s the thing with Punk showing up and winning the battle royal... you’d have to make that the main event. I couldn’t see Punk making his big return as a curtain jerker or sometime mid-show. However, if you book the battle royal as the main event, then you pretty much give away that there’s gonna be a huge surprise entrant, or else it’s all a let down and it leaves people scratching their heads wondering why that was the main event. With Mox, KENTA, or pretty much anyone other than Punk, then yeah... you can place that match somewhere other than the main event.

Cult Icon
05-23-2019, 01:29 PM
Could NJPW allow one of their talents to go there without affecting their deal with Ring of Honor? Maybe a trade for Okada for a few matches with one of AEW's talents?

Thrusting Moxley in the world title picture would look weak. In my opinion.

Unless it's someone like a Suzuki or a Liger, who are technically freelancers and can work wherever, AEW would have to get permission from New Japan. And even then it would likely lead to the same situation as what happened with Pac. If Dragon Gate didn't want Pac losing to Omega, why on earth would anyone believe New Japan would be okay with Okada losing, especially when he's champ? That's why the only New Japan guys I could see would be Suzuki or Liger, and maybe Ibushi because I'm not 100% certain on what his New Japan contract is and because of his history with the Elite guys. I wouldn't expect any one else besides that.

I'm not sure why Moxley would be a weak choice. Is it because he's an ex-WWE guy or because he's not as good a wrestler as Omega is? At the end of the day you need a big match for that Chicago show to help draw. AEW could get away with drawing big on this show because it's their first and they have buzz but that can only last so long; you're going to need viable, marquee big matches going forward. It's why they were doing Pac vs. Omega because, while Pac isn't a megastar, he's a well known name in wrestling circles that casual fans are familiar with due to WWE. I think we all agree that Moxley is a much bigger star than Pac is and while he's not Omega or Walter or Fenix in the ring he can be really good (I subscribe to the theory that he's been at times overworked and unmotivated the last few years, which affected his in ring work). Him vs. Omega will sell to fans, and Omega winning the match (the most likely option) would be an instant credibility boost to Omega, who is known here but does need to be built up, especially if AEW wants him to be their guy. So I have no issue Moxley being the guy if he in fact is. It may not be the best match Omega could have (that would be with Ibushi, KENTA or Joey Janela) but it'll be very good and it'll work like a charm.

T.O.
05-23-2019, 03:05 PM
I watch TV via PlayStation Vue. How do I go about legally watching the PPV?

Team Farrell
05-23-2019, 03:52 PM
https://www.stubhub.ca/all-elite-wrestling-tickets-all-elite-wrestling-las-vegas-mgm-grand-garden-arena-5-25-2019/event/104047160/?sort=price+asc

T.O.
05-23-2019, 04:03 PM
And here I was rooting for you to win a WWE title.

Not any more...

LK3185
05-23-2019, 04:33 PM
I watch TV via PlayStation Vue. How do I go about legally watching the PPV?

B/R live have an app?

T.O.
05-23-2019, 04:43 PM
I hope you win many WWE championships, LK.

LK3185
05-23-2019, 05:00 PM
If the 24/7 title is at Moghegan Sun soon, I will jump the barricade

Prime Time
05-24-2019, 05:16 PM
Breaking news is Double or Nothing will be carried on ITV Box Office here in the UK, which will make it a lot easier for them to get a foothold here in the UK. They're also running a free preshow on ITV4 featuring a couple of matches.

I'm sure some of you will have already read this, but this has developed to a weekly show (presumably what will be on TNT?), which means AEW will be freely available to around 1/3 of the country... And yes, Cody isn't lying when he says WWE has a shitty deal in comparison.

In the UK scene they are primed to become our number one promotion in the space of a couple of months. Not bad, considering WCW didn't win a single week in our 'Friday night war'.

anonymous
05-24-2019, 05:22 PM
With WWE moving to BT from Sky and AEW on ITV it’s going to be a massive change for the U.K. market. I’m already planning on giving it a go, and maybe cancelling sky sports.

meandi
05-24-2019, 07:27 PM
Thoughts on Malenko signing on as a producer/trainer?

Benjamin Button
05-25-2019, 03:23 PM
Cant imagine it being anything but a good thing. Hope Arn gets a job, too. A quote from Arn about AEW, "I saw their quote wins and losses matter. You bet your ass they do."

Degenerate
05-26-2019, 01:58 AM
I bought Double Or Nothing on a whim since it was just $19.99 on the Fite app outside the U.S. I'm glad I did because that was a really solid show. I don't know if I had low expectations or something but I dug every single match on the card, and most of them delivered a whole lot more than I anticipated.

The opener between SCU and OWE was amazing and the best way to open a show like this. I knew the OWE guys would deliver but they all did great, especially El Lindaman. I don't know anything about the rest of OWE but this made me want to see more of them in the near future.

Both women's matches were pretty solid, especially the Joshi showcase. I only knew of Aja Kong and I thought that she wouldn't be doing much since she has a lot of mileage on her. She brought a lot to the match, as did everyone else. I was especially impressed with Hikaru Shida. I'm going to have to go to a Pro Wrestling Wave show soon.

Having Bret Hart be the one presenting the new AEW World Championship belt was a shocker. I kind of disliked the interruptions there but MJF really killed it on the mic. That guy's gonna be a big deal in wrestling if he keeps at it because you can't help but hate him.

The three top billed matches also delivered big time. Cody and Dustin was probably the best match I've seen from both guys, with the real-life story making it that much better. Bucks vs. Lucha Bros. was pure insanity, which was to be expected. Omega and Jericho was a solid main event. Jury's still out on Jericho's new finisher, though. It didn't look like a killer move, but maybe it was because of Omega's already-busted face or something.

The surprise Moxley appearance at the end was just icing on the cake. He looks rejuvenated, and with new possibilities down the road I'm really looking forward to seeing his role there.

From top to bottom I really dug the entire show, but there were a few annoyances for me that I hope get fixed as time goes on. The production was pretty bad at times, especially the camera work. There were so many missed spots and cues. And the constant camera cuts were horrendous - it was like the production crew wanted to out-do the WWE with how many times they switched cameras during a move. I usually don't get annoyed by that but it was just awful.

The commentary was also not at its best. This was my first time hearing Excalibur call a full show and he did really good, I enjoyed him a lot. But the other two need a change. I love Jim Ross but he started off pretty badly and seemed to get slightly more comfortable towards the end. He wasn't as blatantly bad as a lot of his New Japan commentary but I kind of don't want him calling wrestling anymore at this point, to be honest. He just sounded tired and lacked emotion at a lot of key points, especially in the main events. Alex Marvez just didn't click with me either. I think AEW really needs to have a two-man booth, keeping Excalibur and using one of the other two guys to see if that does better.

In all, it was a good night of wrestling, and it makes me hopeful that this thing can take off as one of the top wrestling companies in the world.

Cult Icon
05-26-2019, 11:22 AM
I had some quibbles with the production (especially early), Alex Marvez was not very good as a commentator and the Battle Royal was a far cry from last year. But those flaws aside, this was one of the greatest shows I've ever watched. Not just because of the matches, although (save the Battle Royal) all of them were what I'd call three and a half stars or higher, with Cody-Dustin going down as an all time great match in particular. Not just because of the surprises, although I loved the Awesome Kong/Super Smash Brothers reveals and Jon Moxley's sweet embrace of freedom was electrifying. No, it was because the show did all of this while having the biggest bullseye on its back. This show HAD to be this level, because while AEW has other shows coming and a great TV deal, this was the only change they had to start off strong out of the gate. Who knows what happens if they don't. They had the weight of that, they had the weight of so many other expectations and they went out there and delivered an unbelievable show anyway. Absolutely tremendous. I'd recommend anyone who loves wrestling go out of their way to see this show. In terms of quality its up there with Money in the Bank 2011 and AAA's When Worlds Collide and in terms of importance its right there with Bash at the Beach 1996. Just an incredible show, and it should only get better as the flaws can be easily corrected.

LK3185
05-26-2019, 11:46 AM
I would honestly just have it be Excalibur and JR on the call. Seemed like they had some chemisty going late. Move Alex Marvez to backstage