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Prime Time
05-10-2018, 08:10 AM
I've heard that there's some interesting stuff going on in AAA at the moment, so much so that I think it's got to be worth seeing if they can sustain their own thread, rather than just lumping all Lucha conversation in together.

So anything related to the AAA promotion, from the 1992 split right the way up to the present day, goes here!

mizfan
05-10-2018, 12:39 PM
I watched some of the stuff from earlier this year and OUCH is all I can say to describe it. Some of the undercard stuff was good but there was a Johnny Mundo vs. Rey Wagner (the former Dr Wagner Jr) match that felt right out of the worst of Russo, courtesy of Vampiro.

But yeah, I hear that things are looking up in a major way. Mysterio booked for an upcoming event is a great sign, and they've brought back some other notable guys recently like Jack Evans and Juventud Guerrera, as well as Cult's other favorite Teddy Hart.

Prime Time
05-29-2018, 04:22 AM
Thought I was getting a bit wiser to lucha, then found out AAA have a guy called... Psycho Clown?!

They're not shy about having the names be right on the nose, are they?

mizfan
05-29-2018, 11:17 AM
Subtlety isn't exactly a hallmark of lucha, you know! They've actually got a whole bunch of clowns over there, Psycho is just by far the biggest name of them. He's pretty good too, in my opinion, though his mask is potential nightmare fuel:

http://betwrestling.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/psychoclown.jpg

Cult Icon
06-03-2018, 02:11 PM
The clown gimmick is a AAA staple; it started shortly after the promotion's inception with the very popular Los Payasos stable and then brought back in 2007 with Los Psychos Circus, which is how Psycho Clown came to be. Konnan based the stable and their look off the bad movie classic Killer Clowns from Outer Space; they ended up getting really popular and Psycho (who is the son of Brazo de Plata, aka former WWE star Super Porky) in particular became one of the most beloved luchadores in Mexico. He's the ace of AAA right now (and an underrated worker overall in my book, though he is somewhat choppy) while his former partners, the hilariously named Monster and Murder Clown, are a midcard tag team. There's two other clowns in AAA in addition to them; Pagano, a death match wrestler and Dave the Clown, who might just be the worst wrestler I have ever seen. The dude makes Big Cass look like Negro Casas in his peak.

But enough about the clowns; big AAA show tonight. It's their fifth biggest event of the year, Verano de Escandalo, it'll take place in a Monterrey bull ring and will feature Rey Mysterio challenging Dr. Wagner Jr. for the AAA World title, a six man hair match between Los OGT's and Poder del Norte, the aforementioned Psycho Clown, Juventud Guerrera, the return of Konnan and potentially some even bigger, game changing announcements. Oh, and it'll be available for free on Twitch at 7:30! I recommend everyone watch this.

mizfan
06-03-2018, 07:32 PM
Awesome knowledge drop with the clown stuff! And shit, that sounds like a loaded show indeed. And free to boot!

LWO4Life
06-04-2018, 12:52 PM
So I couldn't watch last night, but how in the hell is Jeff Jarrett champion? This is confusing.

mizfan
06-04-2018, 01:02 PM
Um, ok, so I was feeling excited about AAA's new direction, but surely this seems like 1 million percent the wrong way for them to take??? And I saw he's supposed to be the leader of MAD too???

LWO4Life
06-04-2018, 01:12 PM
I think maybe Konnan might have over booked MAD. Like when they had the group in the early 2010's, with OG LA Park, and others, it was cool. But by putting the title on Jarrett, I'm confused. And I guess they are going to have a new Fenix. Like WTF?

Cult Icon
06-04-2018, 02:47 PM
That's not a new Fenix; that is Fenix. He is working BOTH AAA and CMLL.

Here's what happened, as best I can piece together. I know for a fact that Jarrett wasn't supposed to win the title initially; in fact judging by his run in at the end I would guess it was Fenix. Whoever it was, the call was overruled by Marisela Pena Roldan because she wanted an established older star; that's how Jarrett was chosen and that's why we got what we got in horrible fashion. The good news is he isn't the leader; Konnan is (he returned last night himself) and the longest Jarrett is going to be around for is a few months at most. It was an absolutely horrible call, especially since it could've been Fenix, Kevin Kross or Juventud Guerrera in the role instead, but it's mostly just a minor setback. Konnan should be able to overcome it and the rest of the show, save for a sloppy six man match that had to be called early due to Drago getting injured, was pretty good and would've been great if they had picked anyone other than Jarrett. AAA is still a lot more interesting going forward today than they were a few months ago.

mizfan
06-04-2018, 04:10 PM
Ok, that's good to know. Makes me worried there will be more unexpected changes from above Konnan's head though. The sooner they drop Jarrett again the better, didn't he show up drunk to Triplemania just last year? If he had some kind of intrinsic value and he really is clean then maybe I could see it, but I just don't. Is Jarrett supposed to be really over in Mexico? Do they mistakenly think this will drum up American interest instead of disgust? Did they just want a guy with a WWE HOF ring in the spot?

If it had been Fenix winning the belt that would have been stupendous. I do love that he is apparently working every major lucha libre company in existence now.

Cult Icon
06-04-2018, 04:53 PM
The sooner they drop Jarrett again the better, didn't he show up drunk to Triplemania just last year?

He did and the fucker got away with it (not counting Impact icing him) because everyone decided to focus on the Sexy Star/Rosemary incident. He largely has gotten a pass for it from American fans and clearly some people in AAA have forgiven him too.

This was an odd situation though. Dr. Wagner Jr. revealed today he is gone from AAA; I'm told it's a combination of a) his feud with his son being scrapped once Konnan came in and b) being told he was dropping the title. Once he chose to walk that put the decision squarely in Marisela's hands (which normally doesn't happen; Dorian and Konnan are the primary guys making creative calls with Vampiro still somewhat involved) and Marisela is the type of person who thinks the only workers of value are the established older stars. That's why Imposter Parka keeps getting main event spots and programs despite the fact that my cell phone could out work him. And because Jarrett was a star at one point she wanted him over who Konnan wanted (which judging from his appearance was Fenix); it's dumb and even dumber because she had fucking Juventud Guerrera right there as a guy who's a bigger star in Mexico than Jarrett has ever been, not to mention someone who can still work and cut a promo. But yeah, my understanding is she probably made the call in this situation.

Now that being said it's not the end of the world, like I said earlier. If it was, Konnan would've walked after the show (he did not) and Fenix would've appeared. So Konnan was at the very least amicable about this decision and how he could work with it, and Fenix clearly knows he's going to be used okay because otherwise he'd be gone. So there's no reason to worry right now. It's disappointing that neither Fenix or Juvy got the gold, but I guarantee Jarrett won't be long for AAA and things will look more promising on that main event front soon. And even if not, the undercard is so great right now that AAA is still far better off than they were when Wagner and Mundo were recreating 1999 WCW finishes.

mizfan
06-04-2018, 06:01 PM
That was genuinely horrible, so you're right, things are looking way up even if Jarrett as world champion is pretty '99 WCW in and of itself!

Prime Time
06-04-2018, 06:03 PM
The ch..ch..chosen one!

(Cue Kid Rock ripoff)

Cult Icon
06-04-2018, 11:59 PM
Perhaps we were wrong about Jarrett. I am personally reporting that there is an AAA show scheduled for MADISON SQUARE GARDEN later this year. This comes out the day after Jarrett wins the title. Coincidence? I think not!

LWO4Life
06-05-2018, 10:57 AM
Why go to MSG. In the US, they draw in LA. I'd go to Texas if they want to draw somewhere else. MSG? Big mistake, other than saying they have a show in MSG.

mizfan
06-05-2018, 11:39 AM
I'm not sure it is a mistake. There's a strong wrestling presence in New York, and with everything being so accessible/globalized now I think they could draw a good crowd. I would have thought LA would make more sense too, but they've definitely kicked up some buzz just thanks to those initials, MSG.

I'm sensing some tongue in cheek there, Colt... ;)

Cult Icon
06-05-2018, 02:15 PM
Gang, it's gotten even crazier. The main event for Triplemania will be a four way mask match between Psycho Clown, El Hijo del Fantasma (King Cuerno), Pentagon Jr. (yes, that Pentagon Jr.) and LA Park. Yes; THAT LA Park, the same one who is currently looking like he'll be headlining the CMLL Aniversario.

LWO4Life
06-05-2018, 02:25 PM
WTF? How does that even work. Only one mask is left? The person who takes the losing fall loses their mask? Like, what in the actual fuck? My mind is on overload!!!

Edited:

I have so many questions. They hooked me. Like i have to see how this plays out!

mizfan
06-05-2018, 04:00 PM
It's my understanding that only the person who takes the fall loses the mask, so probably bye bye for Fantasma. That is a HELL of a main event though, bravo to AAA for putting that together. Konnan pulled out the big guns to make us all forget about Jarrett right away, lol.

Cult Icon
06-05-2018, 04:53 PM
The rules aren't quite clear yet because no one is sure if AAA is going to have this be in a cage or not. If it's a cage match then it'll be a case where two luchadores will escape, leaving the other two to fight for their masks. If it's not in a cage then my guess is it'll be like Negro Casas vs. Santo vs. El Dandy from 1996, where Casas pinned Dandy and got to leave, leaving Santo and Dandy to battle it out. It be that but with two guys having to do that instead of one, if that makes any sense. Either way the match should be killer as Pentagon and Fantasma are top talents in lucha libre, Psycho Clown is very good and massively over and at this point I could make the argument that LA Park is the best wrestler in the world right now. The dude is 53 years old, having Match of the Year candidates in Arena Mexico and is now going headline Triplemania and the Aniversario in the span of two weeks. TWO WEEKS! I would not be shocked at this point if he saved Pro Wrestling NOAH, was All In, battled Suzuki at the Cow Palace and ended up ending Brock Lesnar's reign before 2018 is over.

LWO4Life
06-05-2018, 05:49 PM
L.A. Park is the most underrated Mexican legend off all time. I was reading some post on Twitter, and I have to agree. L.A. Park's mask is elevated to the legendary levels! He's up there with Rey Mysterio, Atlantis, and the greats. I am also happy to see his son get shine. I always thought WWE should get the son, let the dad do his thing and be legendary, and use the son to market the hell out of the L.A. Park legacy. But it is what it is, looks like the son is doing great things now, barely 30 and hitting his prime, L.A. Park is on a better run than he was in the 90's, legendary family, legendary mask.

And honestly, I hope only one mask is lost. I think it'll be El Hijo del Fantasma though.

Cult Icon
06-05-2018, 05:58 PM
It's only one mask that will be lost. And it will be Fantasma's. Poor guy; he'll always have King Cuerno!

mizfan
06-05-2018, 07:20 PM
Maybe he's a good looking guy and will be better off without the mask. :)

Yeah, LA Park has been awesome. I caught his re-debut in CMLL and he was fantastic, gonna try to catch a lot more of him this year. 53 years old, damn!!

Oliver
06-06-2018, 11:28 AM
This is going to fucking rule and I will pay all my money to AAA to watch it.

And yeah, I'll also watch LA Park vs Rush. I'll watch LA Park vs a fucking broom, and pay money for it.

mizfan
06-06-2018, 12:17 PM
And the crazy thing is I believe most of these big AAA shows are free on Twitch anyway! Free LA Park, amazing!

Oliver
06-08-2018, 05:48 AM
Joyous days! Joyous days indeed!

LWO4Life
08-06-2018, 04:44 PM
So, LA Park teamed with Penta to battle Psycho Clown and Pagano. Interesting match.

mizfan
08-06-2018, 04:53 PM
Skeleton ninja army!!

LWO4Life
08-06-2018, 05:16 PM
Well.... until L.A. Park nails everyone with a chair... but hey... who didn't see that coming... LOL...

Then they teamed up in CMLL the next night and it's like nothing happened... hahaha

LWO4Life
08-27-2018, 12:26 PM
So, does LA Park have the best spear today?

Cult Icon
08-27-2018, 01:48 PM
Yes. Also Dr. Wagner Jr. has the best fur coats in lucha libre today, but that goes without saying.

Before everyoen gets wrapped up in thinking Triplemania was a shitshow because Maffew and some other guy are posting hilarious Vampiro clips, let me reassure everyone that not only did Triplemania not suck, it was amazing. The English commentary was lame but for those watching the Spanish commentary (as I did) the show was unbelievable. Only the Lumberjack match with Jack Evans, Juventud Guerrera and Teddy Hart was below part. Everything else was good to outstanding, with the pre-show opener, the trios street fight and the four way ladder match (which I thought was just as good as the NXT ladder match from earlier this year) all stealing the show. The booking was damn good as well. When the Spanish version of the show becomes available, watch it! Truly a tremendous show and easily the best Triplemania AAA has done since 2014.

mizfan
08-27-2018, 01:51 PM
LA Park has a lot of bests today. Love how he is ruling lucha right now. Just gotta book him for Lucha Underground season 5 and his mastery will be complete!

LK3185
08-27-2018, 02:03 PM
I saw some of LA Park and El hijo fantasama like the back end cause i didn't know it was on and free last night. All I really thought was it was really slow paced.... besides a few dives and that sick spear. I'm never going to like the shady ref, which is why I always enjoyed CmLL more cause i didn't have to deal with that when I was a casual fan....

But yeah, I'll check out the show as a whole when its available.

Cult Icon
08-27-2018, 02:10 PM
LA Park has a lot of bests today. Love how he is ruling lucha right now. Just gotta book him for Lucha Underground season 5 and his mastery will be complete!

It's remarkable. PCO (future LA Park opponent in MLW by the way) has gotten a lot of accolades (and rightfully so) for his awesome comeback but even that can't compare to what Park is doing. He completely revitalized CMLL upon returning in May (attendance has been way up since), opened the door for Pentagon and Fenix to work between AAA and CMLL by doing it first, has had killer match after killer match in both promotions, just headlined a Triplemania that at least seated 16K (while talking Fantasma's mask), would've been the first man to headline Triplemania and the Aniversario in the same year if CMLL hadn't screwed it up (as such, he, Pentagon, Fenix and Hijo de LA Park will become the first guys since Miguel Perez Jr. in 1994 to work both shows) and is getting US interest from MLW, Impact and probably LU (seeing as they all work together). All 20 years after he supposedly peaked as the charismatic cult hero in WCW. It's one of the greatest comeback stories in wrestling history, which isn't even fair because Park has been great in Mexico the past twenty years only now he finally has the spotlight. If he was in WWE we'd be building statues of this man.

LWO4Life
08-27-2018, 02:57 PM
I guess I'm mixed on AAA. There was some really enjoyable parts, and then some parts that were really... yeah... In general though it was exactly what I hoped for and that's good enough. I think in general, AAA is now basically Mexican 2000 WCW, which is better than when they were basically Mexican TNA, so I'll take it. There are always bright spots, and the ladder match was so damn good! The ref stuff NEVER has bother me in AAA, because AAA introduced the crocked referee, and unlike CMLL, you expect it in AAA. When Tirantes acts up in CMLL you also know he's the booker behind the scenes and he's doing it to make himself look better. Hijo del Tirantes is there to further the storyline, so I'm not that mad at it. With that said, AAA does need some younger referees, god damn some ref work was hard to watch. Again, I'm judging AAA like 2000 WCW, so I can overlook things.

Overall, enjoyable show for what it was, L.A. Park to me has elevated himself to having the most important mask in all of Lucha at this time. I'm glad Vamp said he was about 320, because I always read he's 221, even in his prime he was 240, I can't think of a single match that L.A. Park was ever 221... LMAO. But he's a beast and him taking the complete independent route has opened doors for a lot of luchadors. Mexico is the last country with a "Big 2," and I can see a lot of luchadors playing CMLL and AAA against each other. That's better for the wrestlers and the fans.

mizfan
08-27-2018, 03:02 PM
I hope you're talking back half of 2000 WCW, because even TNA has almost never been as bad as the Russo/Bischoff era!

Yeah, the LA Park story is damn good they should be making movies about it. The dude is incredible in terms of buzz and actually delivering on that buzz. Great comparison to PCO, Park vs. PCO is gonna be something to see!

LWO4Life
08-27-2018, 03:09 PM
I hope you're talking back half of 2000 WCW, because even TNA has almost never been as bad as the Russo/Bischoff era!

Yeah, the LA Park story is damn good they should be making movies about it. The dude is incredible in terms of buzz and actually delivering on that buzz. Great comparison to PCO, Park vs. PCO is gonna be something to see!

I should mention, I was thinking back half 1999, and back half 2000, with the Filthy Animals starting to come up, and then CW tag titles WCW. Skip the part where they striped all champs of their title, because that was stupid.

mizfan
08-27-2018, 03:17 PM
Curiously, La Parka was one of the guys who remained stubbornly over through all of that stupidity, but of course they didn't give him shit to do.

LWO4Life
08-27-2018, 03:20 PM
Even hearing Eric Bischoff talk about it pisses me off because no one challenges him. He has answered about La Parka, basically saying he was just a luchador and had his role in the cruiserweight divsion. I always wanted to counter with, HE WEIGHED 240 POUNDS, why would you bring in a 240 luchador if you have no role other than the cruiserweight division where he was too big to compete!

mizfan
08-27-2018, 03:22 PM
At least he avoided Russo's "Pinata on a Pole" Match, AKA the we're never going to push any luchadors ever again match.

LWO4Life
08-27-2018, 03:29 PM
Yeah, I didn't watch that episode. I remember hearing that, and when I changed the channel, I left it on WWF, forget commercials. I watched the USA commercials because I wasn't watching that hot garbage.

mizfan
08-27-2018, 04:31 PM
Back to AAA, have you been watching these sweet openers? I watched one (from 4/20) at Cult's urging and it was a blast, if you love incredibly fast paced stuff with lots of jaw dropping spots (and I do!).

LWO4Life
08-27-2018, 04:47 PM
I just barely got their Twitch, so I haven't been as up on them as CMLL. I can imagine they have better openers than CMLL though, CMLL depends so much on older luchadors and AAA have younger more athletic luchadors. But now that I got them on Twitch, I will start watching more regularly.

mizfan
08-27-2018, 07:33 PM
I still overall prefer CMLL, but AAA definitely gives you something different and sometimes that's great (and sometimes it's shit, but less so at the moment from what I see!).

Cult Icon
08-27-2018, 07:44 PM
CMLL isn't exactly a shining example of organization either. I love watching CMLL more times than not and when they're on there's few things better (same with AAA frankly) but this is also the same promotion that just teased one of the biggest matches in lucha libre for the whole Summer only to turn around and replace it with a vastly inferior match, followed by them lying several times about why they did. In contrast AAA, at their lowest point just a year ago, built up Psycho Clown and Dr. Wagner Jr. for over a year and then pulled the match off with the right result.

The reality is that both organizations are plagued with disorganization, nonsensical happenings and booking decisions made via pettiness more so than sense; CMLL just does a better job of dressing it up than AAA does because they have the New Japan/ROH relationship, stay in their own lane and run out of one of the most beautiful arenas in the world three times a week. Right now though I'm far more excited to watch AAA than them considering AAA has been putting on great shows, is starting to make sense again with Konnan at the helm and, oh yeah, didn't tease the biggest match in lucha libre only to not do it because they thought Matt Taven and Volador Jr. vs. Cavernario and Rush was a better idea.

LWO4Life
08-28-2018, 11:42 AM
Here is my push back on CMLL, and what happened with L.A. Park. I don't think CMLL really had any plans to book L.A. Park and Rush, and on top of that, dealing with someone as independent as L.A. Park is very, very, very new to CMLL. CMLL in many ways is stuck in the past. A few things I love more about CMLL (so you can guess I'm going to bury them soon), they don't have to have a hardcore match on every card, they are more about the art of lucha rather than trying to move lucha forward. And there's how someone like L.A. Park really messes up what CMLL does. With hands off leadership (other than banning people for life), they have as many people backstage going to business for themselves like 1997 WCW, and are living off the past like WWE. With all of that said, to have someone who comes and goes as they please like L.A. Park is a shock to the system for them. It's not to say their wrestlers don't do dates outside CMLL, because they do, but let's face it, L.A. Park and Rush pushed a feud that we don't even know if CMLL wanted to do. At the same time, CMLL didn't stop it at all. L.A. Park has been fired a number of times from CMLL, but they keep bring him back, no matter how much business he goes for himself because he draws. L.A. Park does what he wants, promotes the matches he wants, and CMLL, which is use to total control of their shows and properties, can't stop him from hyping matches. I do agree, CMLL pulling this tag match, after allowing Rush and L.A. Park to to push their match, makes them look o bush league and out of touch. While I don't think they are bush league, they are very out of touch. Hopefully they come to their senses and make the right match. Honestly though, I'd actually love to see Rush beat Park for his mask. I SAID IT! And maybe that's what's CMLL's hesitation, they don't want to make Rush look bad when they know L.A. Park is just a passing traveler. Who know.

Benjamin Button
08-30-2018, 07:16 PM
Just watched Triple-Mania. ( The twitch version)

It had its ups and downs. Obviously the botches and production leaves a lot to be desired but some cool booking makes up for it.

I guess the thing I hate most about the botches is how the wrestlers just stand there and wait for the person who fucked up to try again.

Liked the dirty referee stuff.Some will shit on it and say it takes the focus off the wrestlers but I think it just gives them more to fight against.

Gonna take up for the Vampiro/ Striker team and maybe it's my own bias but even when shits not perfect, I love their chemistry friendship/disagreements. They both seem to feel what they're watching. And with the language barrier and production there was awkward errors but they still pull the viewer in to what's happening.

Liked Fenix bringing the title home. Actually like his dive on to the owner. I thought it added to the drama. Either way, the right man won. Nice decision there.

I think Mad is a decent heel group. Konann is ever intense and the masks are cool. Vampiro and Striker also sold the tension between Konann and Vampiro in a very nice way. I felt a bit unnerved when I watched Vamp and Konann go at it.

With Konnan back in AAA hope he makes it back to Lucha Underground season 5.

LA Park is a grumpy old bad ass.

LWO4Life
08-30-2018, 10:30 PM
L.A. Park has changed three Lucha business in Mexico for the better, and I think bring a grumpy old man who doesn't give a fuck helps him out greatly. He hates faux La Parka, he still hates AAA, and wouldn't let himself get fucked over again. CMLL tried to play him, he can say fuck them too. He's made the business work for him. And it's being the grumpy old man that's done it.

And maybe I'm tripping, but AAA's production in the 90's was better than now. They have the best luchador roster in the world, but the show isn't.... Good. I'm talking show, not wrestling. CMLL had them beat in production by a huge mile.

Benjamin Button
08-30-2018, 10:45 PM
I meant the grumpy old man as a compliment. Was my favorite part of the show watching him school the younger man.

LWO4Life
08-31-2018, 01:43 AM
Oh yeah, I figured you were, I just need to pile on. He gives no fucks no more, and that's made him even better.

Benjamin Button
08-31-2018, 02:42 PM
LWO you need to get to writing some Lucha Libre columns, mate

mizfan
08-31-2018, 04:09 PM
LWO columns are amazing, so yeah that'd be great. :)

LWO4Life
08-31-2018, 04:32 PM
I've kicked around this idea for a lucha column. I'd really only write about how L.A. Park is making AAA and CMLL his bitch because he can... LMAO.

Benjamin Button
08-31-2018, 05:23 PM
I'd read it...Not to mention the American audience is. Familiar with him but might not know the real him

Oliver
09-10-2018, 11:05 AM
I'd read the shit out of that, LWO. Do it, if you can.

So, does Fantasma losing his mask mean we now get an unmasked Cuerno in LU? Or is he more likely to maintain the mask there, for the time being? I've not been reading spoilers ahead of time, but I must say I was surprised to see Fantasma lose that one, even though I reasoned that Park and Penta wouldn't be the guy to take the loss, leaving it between him and Clown.

I really enjoyed a lot of TripleMania, for what it's worth.

mizfan
09-10-2018, 01:34 PM
Definitely expected Fantasma to lose the mask, out of the 4 involved. As for Cuerno losing it as well, it's an interesting question! It's happened before (Super Fly, I believe). The only thing that puts me in doubt as they seem to be hinting that Killshot may lose his mask as well, and two unmaskings so close seems a little unlikely? Could definitely see it happening though!

LWO4Life
09-10-2018, 01:39 PM
I highly doubt King Cuerno loses his mask. They've never outright said HDF and KC are the same person, they don't operate like the same person and LU seems to operate completely outside of AAA. So I don't expect KC to be unmasked.

Cult Icon
09-10-2018, 02:56 PM
I'm not sure anyone was surprised Fantasma lost his mask. AAA tried to create doubt by leaking info about Pentagon jumping to WWE (something people still actually think is happening, even though it isn't) and stuff about LA Park losing his mask, but at the end of the day it was always going to be Fantasma because the other three couldn't afford to lose it. Psycho Clown is AAA's biggest star, Pentagon is eventually going to be their second biggest star (I personally believe the long term idea is to build both guys up till they can do Psycho vs. Pentagon in a mask match) and LA Park is arguably one of the biggest stars in non WWE wrestling right now, period point blank. Fantasma kind of had to lose, which is fine because he's a good looking dude, he has a ton of hair so he can always put that up and, while it wasn't Wagner money, he surely got paid decently for the loss. He'll be just fine, and I reckon he will be able to keep the Cuerno mask because, as LWO pointed out, LU is a different animal and while it's known Cuerno and Fantasma are the same guy by fans, they're completely different characters. I don't see it having any effect.

I am glad you enjoyed Triplemania Ollie. I personally still have it as my favorite show of the year given the high quality of matches (the ladder match and street fight were off the charts), some of the booking decisions and so forth. All In was in some ways better and it didn't have the cloud of Vamp having an all time low night at the booth hanging over it, but that was it. If you simply avoided English commentary (and in Striker's defense, he did an admirable job given how Vamp was) and watched Spanish, I can't see how you didn't come away thinking this was a great show.

Team Farrell
09-11-2018, 11:41 AM
I have a question. I don't want to start an argument, or come off like an asshole, I'm genuinely curious and asking in earnest.

My only real exposure to lucha, AAA specifically, is Botchamania highlights (lowlights?). Is lucha as botchy as they make it look? Like, going based on Botchamania alone I'd assume that every match has at least one spot where someone crashes and burns or blows a spot and two guys stand around for entirely too long looking at each other to figure out what's next. The Mistico ladder one really got me.

mizfan
09-11-2018, 01:43 PM
I tend to cherry pick top matches but from that I feel like I don't often see obvious botches. I'm not the type that looks for them either but that's what I've seen, for what it's worth!

LWO4Life
09-11-2018, 01:55 PM
Lucha just works different than American. You have two top level luchadors, you wouldn't see botches. But if you are watching the undercard for CMLL and everyone is old, fat and 20 years past their prime, you'll see lots of botches.

Cult Icon
09-14-2018, 06:37 PM
I have a question. I don't want to start an argument, or come off like an asshole, I'm genuinely curious and asking in earnest.

My only real exposure to lucha, AAA specifically, is Botchamania highlights (lowlights?). Is lucha as botchy as they make it look? Like, going based on Botchamania alone I'd assume that every match has at least one spot where someone crashes and burns or blows a spot and two guys stand around for entirely too long looking at each other to figure out what's next. The Mistico ladder one really got me.

This is your first mistake. I love the Botchamania guy but it's quite apparent that his only exposure to AAA or CMLL is through highlights sent to him, which is why it seems to be quite a bit. This recent video making fun of Triplemania is a prime example; the general consensus was that the show was at worst good and at best fantastic (it has a current average score of 7.63 out of 10 on Cagematch for example) but because Vampiro is a giant goofball and certain fans cherry picked a handful of moments to send to Maffew some have gotten the impression it was a botch fest of a show that sucked. The reality is that while there are certainly botches in lucha (and were some on that show), there's no more than any other place. And that's despite the fact that 60% of lucha is all about innovative, high risk, tricky moves.

Team Farrell
09-17-2018, 12:46 PM
This is your first mistake. I love the Botchamania guy but it's quite apparent that his only exposure to AAA or CMLL is through highlights sent to him, which is why it seems to be quite a bit. This recent video making fun of Triplemania is a prime example; the general consensus was that the show was at worst good and at best fantastic (it has a current average score of 7.63 out of 10 on Cagematch for example) but because Vampiro is a giant goofball and certain fans cherry picked a handful of moments to send to Maffew some have gotten the impression it was a botch fest of a show that sucked. The reality is that while there are certainly botches in lucha (and were some on that show), there's no more than any other place. And that's despite the fact that 60% of lucha is all about innovative, high risk, tricky moves.

That's fair enough. My only exposure to it comes from Botchamania or when a particularly egregious botch comes across my Facebook feed. The Mystico one on the ladder really stood out to me more than anything. Vampiro is what he is, and should have just hit the ring without music. That's a botch because of his ego and nothing more.

LWO4Life
09-17-2018, 12:56 PM
Now, if you can overlook the fact that AAA sometimes (understatement?) resembles Russo's WCW with all the run ins, and CMLL is still stuck in the 80's, you can easily sit back and enjoy the show.

Team Farrell
09-17-2018, 01:03 PM
Full disclosure: Russo era WCW is my jam.

LWO4Life
09-17-2018, 01:23 PM
Full disclosure: Russo era WCW is my jam.

Then AAA would be your spanish jam... LOL. Taco Bell option when you're tired of McDonald's!

mizfan
09-17-2018, 01:37 PM
Full disclosure: Russo era WCW is my jam.

A very unexpected take.

Team Farrell
09-17-2018, 01:55 PM
A very unexpected take.

So I'm 30 years old. When Russo had WWE at its Russo-est I was just a year or two too young. Like, I really enjoyed it but that tiny bit too young to really "get" it. But when he was in WCW, I 12 or 13 which is like prime age for Russo.

My girlfriend was in to wrestling at the time, but like Austin and WWE mostly so she never watched any of that stuff. I put on shows from that era all the time and sit with a shit eating grin on my face while her brain melts.

mizfan
09-17-2018, 02:21 PM
I sympathize with your girlfriend on this one, Coach!

I think LWO is the one who posted this somewhere but I can't find where exactly, so I'll throw it in here. Watched this recently and it's all guys currently associated with AAA, except Daga, so why not?

Pentagon Jr & Daga vs. LA Park & Rey Escorpión, 2 out of 3 Falls 3/1/17 AULL


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrWO_Cv3KAc

The lucha independent scene is such a marvelous beast. You constantly see big stars swing in and have random matches with other big stars they might never run across in their "home" promotions, if they even have one. Seeing Pentagon and Park against each other alone is well worth seeking this out, but Escorpion is a great talent as well, and while I'm not his biggest fan a lot of people like Daga too. But let me tell you, this match blew away all my expectations! One of the craziest brawls I have seen in quite some time, I'm talking fans having to constantly run out of their way just to avoid being trampled, and sections of the arena literally being torn apart and used as weapons. I'm not sure you've lived until you've seen a whole row of chairs, bolted together, get thrown at someone. They just went all out, and for more than half an hour too. This is just an all out war, masks were ripped, wreckage was piled into the ring, pretty much anything you can think of. This was a fight for the ages and I recommend everyone check it out. The only thing that wasn't ideal was the finish, which I won't spoil because I can't, because I'm not even really sure what happened. Confusing non-finishes are an unfortunately common downside of these kinds of lucha indy matches, at least in my experience, but still up to that point this match is a real treasure in my book.

mizfan
02-08-2019, 05:01 PM
So some big news coming out of yesterday is AAA will partner with AEW. I think that's pretty cool, AAA has a lot of talent and this will be the biggest direct partnership a Mexican company has had with an American partner since WCW/AAA, so I hope to see a lot of talented people getting exposure.

Also watched this match recently and thought it was worth a look!

Australian Suicide vs. Laredo Kid 12/5/18 AAA Lucha Capital
https://www.facebook.com/luchalibreaaa/videos/1988521264566414/

Watched this at the suggestion of my good buddy COLT IKEN! Let’s see if the match spells disaster? Australian Suicide is a guy I’ve seen in AAA before a few times and recently he showed up at the end of LU Season 4. He dresses like Billie Joe Armstrong and I’m interested to see more of him. Laredo Kid is a guy I’ve just started watching this past year but I very much like what I’m seeing. Lucha Capital is an experimental web series of special shows held in what I believe is a BBQ restaurant?? Whatever it was, it gave some fun and unique areas to fight on. A Canadian Destroyer on a dining room table is really something, let me tell you! Overall I thought this match was pretty great, I’m a sucker for unique environments and I’m a fan of both guys, and they delivered quite well.

Cult Icon
02-11-2019, 11:05 AM
I don't know if it's the AEW agreement or AAA's new TV deal with Azteca (a giant deal for them in the Mexican market) but they were on fire this weekend in Western Mexico. Their show Friday night in Mazatlan was really good with a Match of the Year candidate in Laredo Kid vs. Taurus. I didn't think anything was topping that, until Sunday when the entire show in Tepic did just that! This was a six match card they ran in Tepic; all six matches were, in my book, the 3 1/2 stars or higher, four matches were 4 stars or higher and three of those were at least 4 1/2 stars. The only average moment on the show was the opening promo. Otherwise this was the best show I've seen put on in years and one of the best shows EVER! If this were any other promotion doing stuff like this people would be falling all over themselves to mark out about it.

mizfan
02-11-2019, 03:59 PM
That's freakin' awesome! Taurus is that really big guy, yeah? I need to see some of that guy!

Cult Icon
02-13-2019, 09:46 AM
I would suggest watching this weekend's shows then! He had a great match with Laredo Kid (who is quickly becoming one of the best luchadores in the world) on the Friday show in Mazatlan (not named after Mazza, despite what he believes) and then a great three way match with Jack Evans and Hijo del Vikingo on Sunday in Tepic. Frankly anyone who is a wrestling fan should check out the Tepic show. Like I said (yes I am only one dude, but still) it was a six match card where every match was 3 1/2 stars or higher, at least three matches were four stars or higher and those matches were 4 1/4 (Jack vs. Taurus vs. Vikingo), 4 1/2 (Drago vs. Flamita vs. Laredo) and 4 3/4 (Fantasma, Killer Kross and Rey Escorpion vs. Laredo Kid, Psycho Clown and Puma King). Get a Twitch account, hook it up to your Amazon Prime account, subscribe for free and WATCH THIS SHOW! It saddens me that AAA put out the show of the year and because they're in Mexico no one cares.

mizfan
02-13-2019, 01:17 PM
I'll make a point to seek out the show!

Cult Icon
03-11-2019, 03:28 PM
So Rey de Reyes is happening this Saturday in Puebla and as of now the main event is scheduled to be Pentagon and Fenix taking on Rey Escorpion and Texano Jr. for the AAA Tag Team Championships. But there may be a wrinkle! Not only is Cody supposed to be on this show, but on today's Being the Elite the Young Bucks were seen packing their bags, getting their passports out and talking about how long it's been since they've wrestled. Unless there's an OWE in China this weekend that I don't know about, AAA is the only partner of AEW with a show this weekend. I'd say it's really likely that Lucha Brothers vs. Escorpion/Texano (who are a really good team, even if Texano is just kind of there) will be adding the Bucks to the mix.

mizfan
03-11-2019, 05:34 PM
Oh shit, not only does that match sound awesome but I love there being some kind of AEW twist on it. Psycho Clown being featured in the company is something I could definitely get behind.

Cult Icon
03-26-2019, 02:15 PM
Former UFC Heavyweight Champion and guy who has beaten Brock Lesnar has been announced for Triplemania XXVII.

mizfan
03-26-2019, 11:19 PM
Can't say the idea of Velasquez wrestling does much for me, but I'm not too familiar with him. Should I be excited, Iken?

Cult Icon
04-01-2019, 10:14 PM
Sorry for the delay on this mizfan! I'm excited; he's obviously green right now but he'll be training for the next several months and, according to where the wind is blowing, is either facing Pentagon, Psycho Clown or will be in a tag match. Thus he should be protected. Either way he's a big name, it's a nice get for AAA and it'll help get eyeballs on what is hopefully a strong show otherwise.

There's more big news for AAA though! This Thursday in New York they'll be hosting a press conference in Madison Square Garden, with Konnan, Blue Demon Jr., Pentagon, Fenix, Taya, Aerostar, Daga, Drago and Puma King representing the promotion. Unless they just really want to use the area for a presser, it's expected they'll be announcing their own MSG show for this fall, likely in September.

Heisenberg
04-02-2019, 12:09 AM
Iken, my mutter, you know they’re going to pull a CMLL.

mizfan
04-02-2019, 01:48 PM
Love the idea of more MSG shows for other promotions! Although yes, there's plenty of time for stuff to go wrong. Here's hoping though!

Cult Icon
04-24-2019, 11:25 AM
Cool to see my story on AAA drawing 5.4 million viewers on the main page here. It's legit too; 5.4 million viewers on Good Friday for the Lucha Brothers vs. Young Bucks match.

LWO4Life
04-24-2019, 11:45 AM
I have my issues with AAA, have for almost a decade. But putting the belts on the Young Bucks was one of the best business decisions they ever could have made. It's laughable that people thought this would kill AAA. Who's take was that, dumb white people who only know lucha through Lucha Underground?

LWO4Life
04-24-2019, 12:16 PM
So with AAA getting 5.4 million viewers for the Young Bucks vs. the Lucha Bros. which is more viewers than any WWE TV in a long time, Should WWE be worried?

Cult Icon
04-24-2019, 12:30 PM
It was a group of people who only follow AAA through Botchamania highlights or didn't follow them at all and just decided to talk out of their ass because they hate The Young Bucks. I still can't get over that whole thing. These people had the gall to say the Young Bucks winning some tag titles was going to ruin AAA and not, you know, the 2016-early 2018 period when AAA was unwatchable, the Jeff Jarrett Mega Championship reign and countless other atrocities. It just clearly showed these people making those claims either only paid attention to AAA when they appeared on Botchamania or didn't pay attention at all. What a shame because AAA has been the most entertaining promotion in 2019 and has had, by my money, the best show of the year (their February 10th show in Tepic).

Cult Icon
04-24-2019, 12:31 PM
Come on LWO; if there's one thing WWE is used to over the past twenty years, it's being clowned by AAA in some form. Remember when they were outdrawing WWE in the states in the 90's?! Great times.

LWO4Life
04-24-2019, 12:43 PM
It was a group of people who only follow AAA through Botchamania highlights or didn't follow them at all and just decided to talk out of their ass because they hate The Young Bucks. I still can't get over that whole thing. These people had the gall to say the Young Bucks winning some tag titles was going to ruin AAA and not, you know, the 2016-early 2018 period when AAA was unwatchable, the Jeff Jarrett Mega Championship reign and countless other atrocities. It just clearly showed these people making those claims either only paid attention to AAA when they appeared on Botchamania or didn't pay attention at all. What a shame because AAA has been the most entertaining promotion in 2019 and has had, by my money, the best show of the year (their February 10th show in Tepic).

Yeah, if AAA couldn't kill themselves for a while, then the Young Bucks wouldn't... LMAO.

They've been better. I just get so confused when people hate on them. Hey, I was there since the 90's, back for Los Gringos Locos (A brake when I moved to MN because I refused to pay extra for Spanish TV, and didn't watch until they got on Twitch). I can bitch about AAA the same way everyone else bitches about WWE... LOL. 5.4 Million people though... that's HUGE.

LWO4Life
04-24-2019, 12:48 PM
Come on LWO; if there's one thing WWE is used to over the past twenty years, it's being clowned by AAA in some form. Remember when they were outdrawing WWE in the states in the 90's?! Great times.

I remember AAA selling out the LA Sports Arena, and the largest crowd WWF got in 1994 was 7,000... LMAO. (I didn't know the WWF's numbers until now, I had to look them up. But I will always remember that LA event for AAA, it was a HUGE deal back then in Southern California for wrestling fans.)

Cult Icon
04-24-2019, 12:49 PM
It'll be a huge deal again soon. After they're done with MSG AAA is planning on returning to Los Angeles this fall. I believe it'll be in the Forum.

LWO4Life
04-24-2019, 02:51 PM
It's funny, because for as long as CMLL has been around, and no matter how bad AAA got in the mid-2010's, the amount of fan capital AAA built in the 90's was so great, that fans in California just know to always check for AAA. I fully expect the LA to sell out very quickly.

Team Farrell
04-24-2019, 04:39 PM
So with AAA getting 5.4 million viewers for the Young Bucks vs. the Lucha Bros. which is more viewers than any WWE TV in a long time, Should WWE be worried?

I would say no. Based on the fact that their Mexican market share has been the shits for years, it's to be expected that AAA would outdraw them. Didn't they have to bring Taker in on a series of house shows a few years ago just to have a decent turnout?

Mexico is not WWE territory and it never will be. The people there like a completely different style in-ring and overall presentation.

Good for AAA though, I'm glad to see them doing big business.

Oliver
04-25-2019, 05:58 AM
You might say no, but you know which upstart promotion with money behind them, a buzz about it, and a US TV deal is lining up a Lucha Bros/Young Bucks feud and match?

Not suggesting that AEW will do anywhere near similar numbers, but I think it suggests the draw that just those four might have to a section of wrestling fans. Double Or Nothing could potentially do really big numbers.

Team Farrell
04-25-2019, 11:03 AM
It's a draw to a section of wrestling fans, yes. But you have to put this in context. Mexico eats up professional wrestling. It's part of the culture unlike anything in the US.

AAA is making in-roads into the US, but they are still very much Mexican. They are in the same position in the US that WWE is in Mexico. In the right markets with the right stars on the bill, they'll do good business. They'll probably sell out MSG and I hope that they do, but let's be real. If "The World's Most Famous Arena" was in Louisville, KY they wouldn't exactly be packing 15k people in there.

The business is in a boom period. I hope we can get back to that 60s/70s/80s level where fucking 10 promotions could put 5-10,000 people into buildings every week. It's not like the US is lacking in population centres.

But it's like you said, it's a section of the overall mainstream wrestling crowd. Neither The Young Bucks or The Lucha Bros have been putting tens of thousands into buildings to this point, and unless AEW is like The Grateful Dead people aren't always going to travel for their shows.

I was impressed with All In. I'm impressed that Double or Nothing sold out. But as far as the promotion as a whole goes, if it's something where their regular becomes 1500 people for weekly TV tapings, then they're another indy. They're TNA in 2008. Double or Nothing will probably do well, but keep in mind that Neither ROH which had The Bucks nor Impact which had The Lucha Bros were doing millions of viewers a week. There is an appetite for readily available non-WWE professional wrestling on a big stage. The question is just how big that appetite is. I estimate, based on my own experiences in wrestling and dealing with a variety of fans every week, that it's less than some people do.

Mr Chop
04-25-2019, 11:31 AM
So with AAA getting 5.4 million viewers for the Young Bucks vs. the Lucha Bros. which is more viewers than any WWE TV in a long time, Should WWE be worried?

How big of a jump is that from AAA usual numbers?

Cult Icon
04-25-2019, 12:29 PM
How big of a jump is that from AAA usual numbers?

Their highest recorded number since joining Azteca 7 earlier this year was 4.4 million, which had occurred three times (April 5th, March 8th and February 15th). There's a rumor their debut episode did over 5 million viewers, but the info has never been released so no one knows for sure. Overall the viewership generally stays between 3.5 to 4.4 million, so this past week going to 5.4 million is a big deal. Some of it is definitely the work of Pentagon and Fenix (who are draws in Mexico), some of it is Psycho Clown (AAA's ace who had a cage match featured earlier in the show), some of it is the fact it took place on a holiday when everyone was home and yes, some of it is because of the Bucks. The match featuring the Bucks that was shown this past week was taped on March 16th (for AAA's big Rey de Reyes show, another factor in the rating being high), so people knew this was going to be shown on TV. It wasn't the primary factor, but it definitely didn't hurt and it'll definitely help the Bucks going forward when they return to Mexico.

Really it's just more great news for AAA, which was already getting great news because, again, the ratings are generally between 3.5 and 4.4 million each week. And while Azteca 7 is a huge network in Mexico, it's only in about 44.6 million homes, nearly 50 million fewer homes than RAW is here in the US. In other words, AAA is drawing higher ratings than RAW and Smackdown each week (and this past week did more than both shows combined) despite being in a country with a lower population than the US and being on a station in fewer total homes. AAA is, as we live and breath, the most watched wrestling promotion in North America. Coach is definitely right that them being based in Mexico (which is crazy for lucha libre) helps but it's still pretty fucking wild.

Team Farrell
04-25-2019, 02:22 PM
Their highest recorded number since joining Azteca 7 earlier this year was 4.4 million, which had occurred three times (April 5th, March 8th and February 15th). There's a rumor their debut episode did over 5 million viewers, but the info has never been released so no one knows for sure. Overall the viewership generally stays between 3.5 to 4.4 million, so this past week going to 5.4 million is a big deal. Some of it is definitely the work of Pentagon and Fenix (who are draws in Mexico), some of it is Psycho Clown (AAA's ace who had a cage match featured earlier in the show), some of it is the fact it took place on a holiday when everyone was home and yes, some of it is because of the Bucks. The match featuring the Bucks that was shown this past week was taped on March 16th (for AAA's big Rey de Reyes show, another factor in the rating being high), so people knew this was going to be shown on TV. It wasn't the primary factor, but it definitely didn't hurt and it'll definitely help the Bucks going forward when they return to Mexico.

Really it's just more great news for AAA, which was already getting great news because, again, the ratings are generally between 3.5 and 4.4 million each week. And while Azteca 7 is a huge network in Mexico, it's only in about 44.6 million homes, nearly 50 million fewer homes than RAW is here in the US. In other words, AAA is drawing higher ratings than RAW and Smackdown each week (and this past week did more than both shows combined) despite being in a country with a lower population than the US and being on a station in fewer total homes. AAA is, as we live and breath, the most watched wrestling promotion in North America. Coach is definitely right that them being based in Mexico (which is crazy for lucha libre) helps but it's still pretty fucking wild.
AAA was all over everything last time I was in Mexico. Masks in store windows and all over roadside markets, I bought a hand made ring that was all decorated in AAA stuff. This wasn't even kitschy resort bullshit, this was in a major city. Wrestling is to Mexico as hockey is to Canada (hockey is regularly the most watched thing on TV in Canada averaging 1.8 million viewers in a country of 30 million people), it's a part of the culture. And AAA is the major brand (although I got a big kick out of watching CMLL on TV).

I think that's also why fans there are so forgiving of sub-par quality lucha. Like, the 16-21 hockey team here will put 5,000 people into an arena and while it's good hockey it's decidedly not professional level hockey. But it's the sport we were raised on so we're happy to go and buy a ticket and support as these guys develop even if it's not NHL level.

TV also isn't great in Mexico. Last time I was there I didn't have a satellite with 16 billion channels available, but even on digital cable my options were shitty stuff, more shitty stuff, Spanish dubs of The Simpsons, infomercials and wrestling. Yes it's a smaller population, but it's a major TV network with less competition in the market. For the record, I found what I can only assume is Mexican MTV and Spanish music videos are my favourite thing.

It's HUGE for AAA and I am sincerely glad that they're doing big business in Mexico and making in-roads into the US again, but it's not happening in a vacuum. Like I said, I hope we can get to that 60s/70s/80s level of multiple promotions filling arenas several times per week.

LWO4Life
04-26-2019, 12:43 PM
AAA was all over everything last time I was in Mexico. Masks in store windows and all over roadside markets, I bought a hand made ring that was all decorated in AAA stuff. This wasn't even kitschy resort bullshit, this was in a major city. Wrestling is to Mexico as hockey is to Canada (hockey is regularly the most watched thing on TV in Canada averaging 1.8 million viewers in a country of 30 million people), it's a part of the culture. And AAA is the major brand (although I got a big kick out of watching CMLL on TV).

I think that's also why fans there are so forgiving of sub-par quality lucha. Like, the 16-21 hockey team here will put 5,000 people into an arena and while it's good hockey it's decidedly not professional level hockey. But it's the sport we were raised on so we're happy to go and buy a ticket and support as these guys develop even if it's not NHL level.

TV also isn't great in Mexico. Last time I was there I didn't have a satellite with 16 billion channels available, but even on digital cable my options were shitty stuff, more shitty stuff, Spanish dubs of The Simpsons, infomercials and wrestling. Yes it's a smaller population, but it's a major TV network with less competition in the market. For the record, I found what I can only assume is Mexican MTV and Spanish music videos are my favourite thing.

It's HUGE for AAA and I am sincerely glad that they're doing big business in Mexico and making in-roads into the US again, but it's not happening in a vacuum. Like I said, I hope we can get to that 60s/70s/80s level of multiple promotions filling arenas several times per week.

My push back to this is that well Lucha is important to Mexican culture, just 5 years ago a lot of writing on Lucha was asking about how it fell. AAA was trying to commit suicide it seemed and television sucked. Also CMLL lost a lot of talent to WWE and both were down. Lucha has the roller coaster viewership too, and honestly, AAA is pretty hot right now because of Psycho Clown. I may miss my lucha of the 80's and 90's, but it's on fire in Mexico right now and that's great. But it isn't always like this, so to say it's culture or whatever is to write off the truth. AAA is able to capture fans, and WWE can't. And WWE has to worry because AAA is spreading into the US market, with shows in NY and LA (and they've been known to draw close to 15,000 in LA). If AAA can get the same foothold it had in the SouthWest that it did in the 90's, then WWE is endanger of having a whole demographic that they've cared about for 2 decades start to lose interest in them.

T.O.
05-11-2019, 07:28 PM
Poor Silver King. RIP.

mizfan
05-12-2019, 01:13 AM
Really sucks. I've always liked his stuff in WCW and I know that's his lesser work.

Cult Icon
06-10-2019, 11:42 AM
There were huge, and I mean HUGE, Silver King chants during the AAA main event last night. Dr. Wagner Jr., who is Silver King's brother, has been paying tribute to him at pretty much every show the last month (his gear has at least one Silver King related thing on it) and when he got rolling last night the crowd just went delirious for both him and Silver (the show even ended with Silver King chants as it faded to black). Was a really great moment that unfortunately had to come out of a tragedy.

Last night's AAA show on the whole was outstanding. I know I bring it up often in this thread but the best show I've seen all year was the February 10th show AAA ran in Tepic; last night in Monterrey was, at worst, just as good and I'd say probably better because it featured what was undoubtedly the best match I've seen in 2019 between Laredo Kid and Hijo del Vikingo. It was better than anything on Dominion earlier in the day, it was better than anything WWE, New Japan, CMLL, AAA or anyone else has produced this year; hell it was the most innovative match I've seen in quite awhile. You have to see it. The tag match prior to Laredo-Vikingo, which was Australian Suicide and Villano III Jr. vs. Golden Magic and Myzteziz Jr., was outstanding as well and will unfortunately get lost in the shuffle because of how good the singles was. Villano III Jr. has every chance to be the star his father was, and keep in mind his father is one of the greatest luchadores to ever live and had the greatest lucha libre match of all time. That his kid is already this great is wild.

mizfan
06-10-2019, 01:53 PM
Definitely gotta check out that Vikingo/Laredo match! Saw a few gifs which were super impressive, and with the Cult stamp of approval I know it's gotta live up to the hype! Great that such love is being shown to Silver King as well, even just the little bits of him I've seen from WCW showed me he had a whole lot offer.

Cult Icon
06-11-2019, 06:16 PM
Here is the match on YouTube!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl4Is5Gy8kw&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0wACt8gA6UsTlzkYmbPI5dXxBBA3J3o1lGb09St vJhK4Qys3YXuJmMaTY

mizfan
06-12-2019, 05:50 PM
Awesome, thanks!

cathe67
06-26-2019, 10:59 AM
Just sharing some quick thoughts about a AAA match I watched recently. This match was discussed on The Global Revolution, which I highly recommend to listen to for additional thoughts on it as well. My thoughts on the other 2 matches discussed on the podcast can be found in the CMLL thread. Let's go!

Laredo Kid (c) v El Hijo del Vikingo
AAA World Cruiserweight Title match 06-09-2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl4Is5Gy8kw
When the mystery partner for the Lucha Bros was announced for AEW's Fyter Fest, I sent a message to Mizfan to ask him if I was excited by the fact it was gonna be Laredo Kid. He told me "sure" and sent me this match he was going to discuss on The Global Revolution. First, I really love when a wrestler's name fits his gimmick. I was quite served with El Hijo del Vikingo. The match starts with a great sequence of twisting lucha wrestling. The fluidity is really great and adds a lot to my enjoyment of a match. Both wrestlers are wrestling a clever match, when Laredo Kid moved to avoid a dive, El Hijo del Vikingo readjusted his flight to still catch his opponent. I really don't appreciate when you take your opponent for a stupid dude, of course you should look if your rival is still there before jumping (it's different when someone moves during the execution of the move, obviously). Both wrestler are doing great flips and just great wrestling in general. I watched it twice already, the first time I was really wondering why I wasn't really paying attention to Laredo Kid as my eyes were constantly drawn back to El Hijo del Vikingo. On the second viewing I paid more attention to the way the match was built and how they interacted together. I agree with a comment Mizfan and Jeff made during the podcast about the raised entrance. It allows for some clever and different moves to be performed. At the same time, the match doesn't need to lose momentum when the wrestlers continue their fight outside the ring. The crowd was amazing during this match and really kept me engaged both time I watched it. I'm a sucker for a Spanish Fly, that move pops me every damn time. I can't wait to see one done live in front of my eyes!!! Right before the ending sequence, El Hijo del Vikingo did a pin attempt on Laredo Kid, which Kid broke by grabbing the rope. But El Hijo del Vikingo wasn't paying attention to him, he was listening to the referee's count and when the ref stopped it, El Hijo del Vikingo had NO idea why. The look he gave the referee without realizing there was a rope break was heartbreaking and so painful. He was so sure of himself, and he had me convinced. That's some awesome character work that I really enjoy, these little details that take place in wrestling are golden.


Well, this is it for now, thanks for reading!

Until next time,
Cathe

mizfan
06-26-2019, 02:39 PM
Cult will be very pleased that I got somebody to watch this match for the first time! I'm out here doing the lucha god's work, Iken!

Cult Icon
06-26-2019, 02:50 PM
Now this is forum content I can get behind! I'll be doing a write up on Laredo Kid for the site either today or tomorrow as well. He has a terrific story on how he got to Fyter Fest this weekend and I intend to tell it.

Prime Time
07-20-2019, 12:20 PM
What's this cropping up in my twitter feed about Konnan and Cody on a AAA show?

Cult Icon
07-20-2019, 03:05 PM
Konnan cut a 100% worked promo on Cody this past Thursday at a show in Aguascalientes that I guess some people have thought was a shoot? I'm not sure how that all came about but having watched the promo (which was great) live it was very clearly a continuation of the issues Cody and Konnan had back in March, where Konnan told Cody anything he does in AAA has to go through him and Cody responded by calling Konnan a powerless employee.

Cult Icon
07-31-2019, 06:58 PM
Only a few days till Triplemania! I expect all of you to be here for the show, or I will send the Steinerbot on your ass.

cathe67
07-31-2019, 09:55 PM
Well, I will be watching the show, it looks like some solid matches on the card. I really don't know much about AAA, but I've enjoyed the shows/matches I've seen so far!

Oliver
08-05-2019, 08:59 AM
You can call off the Steinerbot, Cult!

That pre-show match was excellent, the Copa Triplemania was fun for once, THE PARK FAMILY, the lasses TLC match with motherfucking AYAKO HAMADA, Cain Valasquez delivering a better MMA to wrestling transition than Ronda Rousey, THE PARK FAMILY, Omega vs Pentagon getting confirmed (after a tepid six man affair, it must be said), Demon vs Wagner (!!!!!), Tirantes being the worst referee in the business as ever, and of course THE GOD DAMN PARK FAMILY.

Probably the best major event I've watched from a company this year.

Cult Icon
08-05-2019, 12:57 PM
You know what the funny thing is; not only was this show par the course for AAA this year, but I'm not sure it was even the best AAA show of the year! There are two shows, a February 10th show in Tepic and a June 9th show in Monterrey (which features the now mythical Laredo Kid-Hijo del Vikingo match) that I thought were just a bit better. None of which takes away from the fact that Triplemania was a resounding success and definitely featured the best performance from English commentary ever. I can only hope it gets more people to watch AAA for the rest of the year so people can see that AAA has been as great as I've been hyping them to be all year.

Cult Icon
09-11-2019, 12:00 PM
Guess who's going to AAA in the Hulu Theater this weekend? THIS GUY!

mizfan
09-11-2019, 01:51 PM
Dude that's awesome!! Can't wait to hear about the show!

Cult Icon
09-11-2019, 03:09 PM
You can watch it on FITE apparently, though it's costly. But no one will watch it. TOO MANY FLIPS! NOT ENOUGH 1980's STORYTELLING!

mizfan
09-12-2019, 10:15 AM
I mean 1980s storytelling is awesome, but flips can be too! :)

Team Farrell
09-16-2019, 11:24 AM
Hey Cult, how was the MSG show?

I'm sorry that it wasn't the best show of the weekend. If only Bloodsport had been next week... ;)

Cult Icon
09-16-2019, 12:16 PM
It was great. The best part was when Pentagon did his Cero Miedo routine and then said stuff about Western Canadian wrestling legend Sydney Steele that I will not repeat here for our more sensitive posters! We'll see if its leading to a match!

In all seriousness, best show I've ever attended. I expected it would be a good show but it was somehow even better than that. Wagner vs. Demon was unfortunately pretty weak, especially compared to the Triplemania match (my theory is, because the New York Athletic Commission is very strict on how violent matches can be, AAA decided to do a tame match in order to avoid issues) and Taya-Tessa didn't grab the crowd, but everything else was exceptional. The opener with Mascarita Dorada (El Torito!) was a lot of fun, the Impact-AAA match was strong despite Impact inexplicably winning, the four way was great, Cain Velasquez exceeded expectations yet again (in another great match) and the Lucha Brothers/LAX match was the best match I've ever seen in person. Crowd was unreal as well aside from Taya-Tessa (and they were still good there, just not great); completely old school to in that there were no modern chants, just pops, chants for the wrestlers and such (AAA never gave them a chance to turn on the show either by not having anything bad on the show and by keeping the show at a brisk 2 hours and 30 minutes). A complete success.

mizfan
09-16-2019, 01:53 PM
Really glad the show went so well, that's awesome for AAA and for all of wrestling. I admit I was a little worried when it sounded like they were having some issues setting it up but sounds like it came off quite well in the end.

Cult Icon
10-19-2019, 10:34 AM
Omega! Fenix! The AAA Mega Championship! AAA Heroes Inmortales is tonight and you should watch it.

LK3185
10-19-2019, 11:14 AM
Where can one watch it?

Cult Icon
10-19-2019, 11:24 AM
Twitch! AAA has their own channel that you can find by clicking this link (https://www.twitch.tv/luchalibreaaa). It's free for non subscribers though there is a chance you'll get some ads every now and then and you won't be able to watch the show On Demand afterwards unless you're a subscriber. Subscribing means paying $4.99 a month unless you're an Amazon Prime member; if you are then you can sign up for Twitch Prime (which is free) and thus get one subscription on Twitch for free.

It's all very complicated. Bottom line is you can watch for free on Twitch without subscribing. The show begins around 9:00 p.m. EST tonight; Omega-Fenix is the semi-main and should come on around 11-11:30, perhaps a bit later. Here's the full card.

http://www.luchadb.com/events/posters/00084000/00084756_00047424.png

mizfan
10-21-2019, 11:28 AM
How the show Cult? I heard good things!

Cult Icon
10-21-2019, 12:56 PM
I would say the famed Tepic show from February, Triplemania and Invading NY were better overall shows but this was only a notch below. Almost every match was fun, the sequences between Hijo del Vikingo and Taurus as the final two in Copa Triplemania were breathtaking, the Antonio Pena hologram was super cool and, most importantly, Fenix and Omega knocked it out of the park with one of the three best matches in AAA this year (right below Wagner-Demon and Vikingo-Laredo Kid) and Omega won the title! So we will indeed be seeing more of Omega in AAA down the road.

mizfan
10-22-2019, 10:05 AM
I'm such a mark for Taurus. I know there are tons of smaller guys just waiting to break out further in the US, with Vikingo likely at the top of the list, but there's something about Taurus that I look forward to even more.

Holographic wrestling authority figures... nobody show this to WWE, we'll have Vince onscreen firing people into the next century!

Cult Icon
10-23-2019, 10:54 AM
AEW wants both Vikingo and Taurus quite a bit. Vikingo would already be working AEW if he had his visa in order; that's who they wanted to be Pentagon and Fenix's partner at Fyter Fest but the visa issues got in the way, which led to Laredo Kid getting the shot (which was fine by me; Laredo Kid has been the best luchador in the world this year and should be used all the time when he returns from appearing on that reality show he recently joined). Once that's resolved he'll be there. As for Taurus I know for a fact he was approached by Tony Khan after that high acclaimed trios match in PWG earlier this year and was also the guy who was paired up with Cody when he went down to AAA. They're very high on him too, so I would expect you'll see him before long.


Personally I think we'll be seeing a lot more AAA talent on AEW going forward, especially now that Kenny is AAA Mega Champion. The word is that AEW will be incorporating the belt into their storylines, which would indicate to me that there will be title defenses. If it were me I'd be bringing in guys like Vikingo, Taurus, Aerostar, Drago, Laredo Kid, Psycho Clown (another Cody favorite) and a few others to give Kenny a run for his money in title matches. But then again if it were me Kenny would be holding this Mega Championship for months and should only be losing it to either a) Fenix in a rematch, b) Pentagon, c) Psycho (my preferred option), d) a returning Rey Mysterio Jr. (contract is up in April!) or e) a debuting Rush. The latter, by the way, is coming to AAA inevitably so don't dismiss the possibility of Rush-Omega and definitely don't dismiss the possibility of Triplemania XXIV being headlined by the mask vs. hair match everyone has been waiting for.

mizfan
10-23-2019, 02:21 PM
Hey, AEW loves taking cues from WCW already so bringing in a load of sweet luchadors would be perfect! :)

Cult Icon
10-31-2019, 03:16 PM
For those who enjoyed talking about LA Park earlier, mizfan and I talk to each other (and sometimes ourselves) about it here too! Join us. Come to the lucha side. WE HAVE THIS GUY!

https://66.media.tumblr.com/36f06870c0d861729487a55a7e63a365/tumblr_pwqp2isdXp1s05wxzo1_400.gifv

Oliver
10-31-2019, 06:34 PM
😊

How big a star will Laredo Kid be by the end of 2021?

And Vikingo, for that matter. He's so good!

Cult Icon
10-31-2019, 08:06 PM
Laredo Kid is going to be big by 2020 because he's on that Exatlon reality show right now. It's basically Mexico's Survivor and it generally gets you a lot of publicity for being on it. He and Myzteziz Jr. (another really talented young high flyer) are both on it and regardless of what happens they should both benefit. Plus my understanding is that Laredo will be in AEW at some point too so that can only help him.

Vikingo will be a mega star. He's probably the most innovative high flyer out there right now other than maybe Alex Zayne, he's got a ton of charisma and he's pretty much money every time he wrestles. AEW wants him too; it's just a matter of when he gets his visa. Even then he'll be a big deal in AAA for years to come I'd reckon. The only thing that'll hurt him is he doesn't have a mask, but that's a minor thing when he can do some of the stuff he does.

mizfan
11-01-2019, 01:52 PM
I don't think not having a mask will hurt him at all, we've had plenty of lucha stars without masks over the years.

Powder
01-16-2020, 11:41 AM
I need some help, clarification.

Apparently La Parka has passed away.

Which one? Is it the one that I remember from WCW, who was the 'Chairman of WCW' who I think became L.A. Park for reasons I am still unclear.

Of the other one, which took the name La Parka for some reason that I am still usure even after reading some info about it.

Prime Time
01-16-2020, 11:50 AM
Not the WCW one. T'other one.

Powder
01-16-2020, 11:52 AM
Gotcha. Thanks, but do you know the reasons for 2 La Parkas and why the name change?

Prime Time
01-16-2020, 11:56 AM
I'm sure someone who knows more will be able to tell you if I'm wrong, but the gist as I understand it is the guy who ran AAA owned the gimmick, so when the first La Parka went to WCW he created his own version of the character to mitigate the damage, called La Parka Jr. So there were two La Parka's (one jr) so long as the original was mainly working in the US, but when he signed for CMLL, then AAA management made it a legal situation, which upgraded La Parka jr just to La Parka and meant that the original had to rebrand - hence L.A. Park.

I think that about covers it, though as I say, someone will be able to correct me if I'm way off base.

Powder
01-16-2020, 12:05 PM
Ugh. That is just awful and confusing and dumb. Kind of like when the Scarecrow finally got his brain, but still was dumb.


The sum of the square roots of any two sides of an isosceles triangle is equal to the square root of the remaining side. Oh, joy! Rapture! I've got a brain!

The actual Pythagorean Theorem is: The sum of the squares of the legs of a right triangle is equal to the square of the remaining side (hypotenuse).

mizfan
01-16-2020, 04:03 PM
Wizard of Oz references aside, Pete is spot on here as far as I know! The politics of lucha libre are quite complicated. For a more recent example, refer to the confusing period where Pentagon Jr had seemingly half a dozen ring names at once!