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  1. #121
    The Brain
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    There's a Jack Brisco, Piper match dear to my heart...I think the match is mostly a headlock but it's the most grueling headlock you'll ever see.
    If there's a link or particular place on the Network to see this, I would be very happy.

  2. #122
    https://youtu.be/PJ8fE7o96O8

    Actually 1982 and 1983 Mid Atlantic on the WWE Network might be worth a watch if you ever do NWA legacy series and cover starrcade 83...the locker room is incredible...the best of Sgt Slaughter you'll ever see, there's Barry Windham...but a lot more of Steamboat..and I know how you guys like goofing on him....Piper does brilliant, brilliant heel work in this time...and it's Ole Anderson's true greatness when the Andersons were a thing before the horsemen is worth unearthing..
    Last edited by Benjamin Button; 07-30-2018 at 12:59 AM.

  3. #123
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    I would love to do that. The WWF Series is gonna be quite a commitment but a dive into the pre-Wrestlemania is one of the things that would interest me a ton.

    And man, people really do think we don't care for Steamboat! Makes me glad we clarified our feelings on that in an upcoming episode.

  4. #124
    When are you going to put out a show?

  5. #125
    Cero Miedo Mystic's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, we are on hiatus this semester, as I try to write my dissertation, job materials, and send out job applications. I hope we'll be back in December, but that will depend on the powers that be at LOPR.

  6. #126
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    Fellas - in hopes that this thread will have plenty of activity very soon I thought I would share something - I’ve been watching Raw (and most PPVs) from mid NewGen era and am now in summer 1997 heading towards the Screwjob. Gotta say the Undertaker had quite the Stingesque run of getting betrayed by partners. In some cases he should have seen these betrayals coming a mile away. I guess we can chalk that up to one more thing they “have in common”

  7. #127
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    There's so much I'd love to unearth from that era. That Sting and Undertaker have more in common than a penchant for wearing black would be interesting indeed. Unfortunately there's still no timeline on our return, but very hopeful we will return to the series at some point!

  8. #128
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    That Sting-Undertaker comparison is interesting. I've never followed Undertaker closely, so he will be interesting to look at in time. I probably know his earliest days best, maybe 90-95 or 97.

    I am way behind on dissertation and job search. I won't know anything until maybe April. I'm hoping around that time I will know if I can jump back in or not.

    It's more difficult for me to jump back in when it's WWF. I know there will be a great deal of things to love, but I so *needed* to reconnect with WCW and to attempt narratives not so overwrought by horrible places such as WWE, that I couldn't *not* do WCW. It's more difficult for me to build that same level momentum for WWF.

    Also looking at WWE Network and perhaps there should one day be a special WCW Saturday Night, April 1992-January 1993, TLS special series.

    Currently watching Brian Pillman vs. Brad Armstrong. I believe Armstrong is way underrated and was worthy of a push that simply never came.
    Last edited by Mystic; 01-01-2019 at 05:10 PM.

  9. #129
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    Apologies for the double post, but I don't usually listen to my own shows, but when I do, like tonight, I listen to this one:

    https://www.mixcloud.com/lopradio/th...vader-tribute/

  10. #130
    The Brain
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    One of our best. RIP to the greatest.

  11. #131
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    In spite of my distaste for his commentary and some of the BS stories there are out there about Tony Schiavone I decided to give his podcast a listen - shockingly, I don’t hate it. Figured listening to a show that he was probably uncomfortable with, Heatwave 1998 would help prove my assumption that I would fucking hate the podcast, but listening to him watch this ostensibly for the first time and give sincere feedback makes him sound almost human.

  12. #132
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    I like this conversation, because, during winter break, I've been on a binge of Something to Wrestle, 83 Weeks, and WHW, in that order.

    I think I was most captivated by StW, because I've always thought not much about Vince McMahon or WWF made any good sense. So I listened to figure out why decisions were made, and it seems that, a lot of times, I was right. Vince just likes something or he doesn't. And it changes by the week. And when he likes it it's the greatest thing ever and when he doesn't he has no use for it. That show was really interesting when it was eras I like (80s/90s), but once I got used to the patterns and answers and most of the era I liked was listened to, I lost interest.

    Then I tried 83 Weeks. Bischoff, for me, is the least interesting. He doesn't remember anything. He was far more on the business side than the creative. It's like listening to someone who has amnesia. Mostly a waste of my time.

    Tony is back in wrestling, and I think he has been humbled a bit. He rode pretty high with WCW. After, he could leave wrestling and owed nobody anything. Now he's back in, working MLW, doing the podcast. I could be wrong because I don't know him well, but I think this is the only time of his life where he could/would sit down and talk as openly and honestly as he's doing.

    The hard part for me, which I can't fully explain, is that I listen to these podcasts all day, and I'm angry at the end. Partly it's Prichard defending Vince all the time, parroting the company line even when he's not there. Easily, in 83 Weeks, it's "If this asshole had paid attention, if he had actually cared about anything, if he understood that not every superstar has to be bought/they can actually be developed, then maybe WCW wouldn't have been fucked like it was."

    Plus, all that people seem to like is the arguing with Conrad, the contentious moments, etc.

    For me, that's fun for five minutes, but it's like these insiders are so goddamned jaded and they so rarely have stories where they sit back and talk about something they loved. Maybe that's what makes a fan a mark? That they actually care about the product. But I leave some of these shows with such a bleak feeling. Maybe, of three, Tony's is the least of that. I've not listened to enough of his shows. But I have listened to enough of the others to know.

  13. #133
    Not really sure where to post this but I just listened to some of you guys pascoss ?( Best pentagon impression)of AEW and man it was good...you guys are fucking great together... Loved the convince me segment as someone who wants to learn...and was digging Shane's take on how wrestling is less character driven ..I think for me as a viewer the obvious answer lies in heavy scripting....the worst promo guy will feel more real NOT talking from a script and the best promo guy will be weakened

  14. #134
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    I think scripting can help certain performers, but yeah on the whole I think it's just made things more plastic and worse. I'll make an AAAE thread soon, I promise!

  15. #135
    Mizfan, you're a wealth of knowledge...so maybe you see another angle...but the scripting thing-- you take a guy like Mike Ratundo, horrible talker in the early 1980s...he did some awkward shit when talking but it felt real....like some guy who's not the best conversationalist telling ya something....if he was reading a script, he'd be a terrible talker who also sounds like he's reading... wrestlers aren't acters, especially bad promo guys...

    I'm not saying they should be in character 24/7...only while the show is on...it's like watching a movie, one wants to suspend belief....Bad talkers reading scripts don't help suspend that.

  16. #136
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    Thanks, Button.

    This is the most excited I've been on pocasting since WCW: TLS, pre-Russo.

    I'm on a personal investigation as to what the hell is wrong with some of the talent when it comes to character/promos. Is it the scripting? Partly. Is it something else? Maybe.

    I dunno. Partly because I don't know how scripted various shows are? Is MLW heavily scripted on promos? I was watching an old episode and Shane Strickland was doing commentary in the back, talking to an announcer then to a manager.

    It felt like.

    If someone told you to say, "This here is my destiny" and you almost said "This is my destiny" which is the exact same thing (as people don't know what you are supposed to say, but you are stopping and thinking and we can watch you thinking through your lines.

    But, again, it may not be that, because some of these places might not be that scripted.

    It might also be some form of not being yourself or a character close enough to yourself.

    So, with scripted promos: spirit vs. technicality (getting it "right")

    With character: spirit vs. technicality (trying to play a part "right")

    Arn Anderson is a great promo, but I feel like if someone gave him lines and he fucked them up, he would just start yelling (spirit) in Arn Anderson character.

    I think it's part scripting, part character correlation, and perhaps some form of anxiety/insecurity that might be generational.

    I'm just spitballing, but I'm going to start paying attention, because I really want to know what makes the difference.

    All I can say: it is pivotal for success.

    Even the dudes in BTE.

    There is such a great FUCKIN' line where Marty is the only one who doesn't know that the guys are leaving for AEW. He asks Kenny, "Did you know" and Kenny stutters out, "Yeah...I, uh, watch this show, so..."

    And it's obviously scripted and it involves stuttering, but he knows his character, he knows what the line is doing, and it lands masterfully.

    So this is complicated.

    But it's worth better understanding.

  17. #137
    I think there's some training in that, though....if one is trained on scripts and they suck at talking are they building confidence?

    If one is giving bullets and they're convincing but still suck at talking are they building confidence?

    Maybe confidence separates them. Maybe wrestlers being given scripts change their confidence level
    Last edited by Benjamin Button; 01-30-2019 at 11:25 PM.

  18. #138
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    I wouldn't mind seeing a company where you negotiate your character, you are given general directions for matches and promos, and you go out there and sink or swim based on how you can connect. Nothing unfair about that. And, if you do fail, it's not like there aren't many places where you can be and not connect deeply as a character.

    There is very much an entrepreneurial spirit in and around AEW. I hope some of that carries over to what I just typed.

    Perhaps this fits the discussion somehow:


    Last edited by Mystic; 01-30-2019 at 11:43 PM.

  19. #139
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    The way I see it, it's very similar to wrestling itself. By and large, great matches are called on the fly, but you can't discount the Randy Savage and DDP types who create masterpieces with careful planning.

    Let me put it another way... I think some degree of scripting can be helpful, but only if the talent is also involved in the scripting and is comfortable keeping things organic, i.e. not stumbling over the exact wording. I think it varies from person to person, some need it planned in advance (you think Arn didn't come out knowing exactly what he was going to say?), whereas some are better at winging it completely (do you think Flair ever wrote down a piece of a promo in advance in his life?). I'd like to see some experimentation and flexibility to find the best way on a person to person level.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    I'd like to see some experimentation and flexibility to find the best way on a person to person level.
    I agree with this 100%.

    Most of the rest, I wouldn't argue with. I'm not talking about wrestlers planning. They can plan as little or as much as they want. I'm cool with that. The minimal I'm talking about is having writers/management give minimal direction and let the wrestlers drive the thing. How they do so is up to them.

  21. #141
    I don't know shit bout backstage wrasslin; you got me, I'm guessin
    Last edited by Benjamin Button; 01-31-2019 at 01:00 AM.

  22. #142
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    Eric Bischoff says that Ambrose leaving doesn't matter, because WWE--not its wrestlers--is the star. That Vince learned a long time ago that if you don't want to be vulnerable and have your talent stolen, make WWE the star. This correlates with all the comment sections where the minute ANYONE is thinking of leaving WWE, the push becomes that this person is a has-been or never-was because, no longer standing next to the star, WWE, any wrestler loses their luster.

    Let's say at least some of this is true. Are WWE stars more valuable than Indy stars from an eyeball point of view? Or are the WWE stars no better than what Independence they can create or recreate (Ambrose becoming Moxley)? Is there any possibility that WWE stars will take up money and space in AEW but that, wholesale, WWE has created a way that they cannot do great damage once they are not in WWE?

    This is also the great, great clusterfuck of this moment: wrestlers leaving WWE because you cannot matter in WWE while WWE has created a structure where you potentialy also cannot matter outside WWE.
    Last edited by Mystic; 01-31-2019 at 11:17 PM.

  23. #143
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    I think, at least at this point, the mere statement of walking away from WWE willingly (instead of being released) is more important than any individual star power, barring something unthinkable like Cena defecting. Whether those who walk away have true star power is something time will tell, but I do think they will have a place to start from. That can work against them as well though, as you say anyone who walks away from WWE will be immediately vilified by some fans.

  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
    I like this conversation, because, during winter break, I've been on a binge of Something to Wrestle, 83 Weeks, and WHW, in that order.

    I think I was most captivated by StW, because I've always thought not much about Vince McMahon or WWF made any good sense. So I listened to figure out why decisions were made, and it seems that, a lot of times, I was right. Vince just likes something or he doesn't. And it changes by the week. And when he likes it it's the greatest thing ever and when he doesn't he has no use for it. That show was really interesting when it was eras I like (80s/90s), but once I got used to the patterns and answers and most of the era I liked was listened to, I lost interest.

    Then I tried 83 Weeks. Bischoff, for me, is the least interesting. He doesn't remember anything. He was far more on the business side than the creative. It's like listening to someone who has amnesia. Mostly a waste of my time.

    Tony is back in wrestling, and I think he has been humbled a bit. He rode pretty high with WCW. After, he could leave wrestling and owed nobody anything. Now he's back in, working MLW, doing the podcast. I could be wrong because I don't know him well, but I think this is the only time of his life where he could/would sit down and talk as openly and honestly as he's doing.

    The hard part for me, which I can't fully explain, is that I listen to these podcasts all day, and I'm angry at the end. Partly it's Prichard defending Vince all the time, parroting the company line even when he's not there. Easily, in 83 Weeks, it's "If this asshole had paid attention, if he had actually cared about anything, if he understood that not every superstar has to be bought/they can actually be developed, then maybe WCW wouldn't have been fucked like it was."

    Plus, all that people seem to like is the arguing with Conrad, the contentious moments, etc.

    For me, that's fun for five minutes, but it's like these insiders are so goddamned jaded and they so rarely have stories where they sit back and talk about something they loved. Maybe that's what makes a fan a mark? That they actually care about the product. But I leave some of these shows with such a bleak feeling. Maybe, of three, Tony's is the least of that. I've not listened to enough of his shows. But I have listened to enough of the others to know.
    Mystic - if you want to listen to Tony at his most sincere and in downright fandom, listen to the WM 18 show. I listened to it this week - I didn't anticipate liking it all that much as the show has always had a sour feel because of the "main event" (last match) and how terribly booked the lead up was, the emasculation of Chris Jericho, the Stephanie McMahon nonsense and it marking the dawn of Hunter's reign of terror. I still have a lot of feels about the show itself, but listen to Tony...it's fucking otherworldly to hear his voice show genuine excitement. He had never heard a Rock promo and Conrad plays one for him and he outright marks out. For better or worse I hate Tony a lot less than I did because of his podcast. It dawned on me, he loves southern wrestling, but when everything else falls away, he's a production first guy and because of that he would have always have been happier with the WWF product.

  25. #145
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    BK - I will absolutely listen to that. Not sure when, as life is hectic right now. But I will.

    Life is weird. You posted this on the same day that mizfan and I recorded episode one of what will be MLW Fusion: The Legacy Series. (We are covering episodes 1-42). Just so happens, in hour three, which was the MLW portion, we got to talking about Tony and we had some similar sentiments.

    Hell, I even admitted that me trying to cover Indy wrestlers for our All Elite portion is a lot like Tony trying to announce MLW.

    I like that he's back. He'll never be my favorite announcer, but, quite frankly, with so many of the people I love from that era now passed on, anyone from that era becomes symbolic of some of my best days.

    Plus, none of us want to be identified based on a bad time in our lives. Mizfan made such a great point about Tony loving Flair/NWA/80s, and that much of his worst announcing and bad behavior (ie, with Bobby) might have been the product of a man who was long burnt out from a bad situation.

    I've also listened to enough of his podcast to know how much HE LOVED WWF for that one year and how DEEPLY he regretted leaving. I also wonder how much that impacted/impacts him.

    I still wonder if he cooked and killed his wife. "His wife" is on the podcasts and yells at him in the background because she is trying to DVR some shit and doesn't know how to. Is that a ghost that haunts the house? Maybe. I'm still not fully backing off of that.

    But...

    now is now. And I am having fun with a new Tony. TWTB: Tony with the Beard. He is engaged in wrestling again, and I enjoy his being on MLW, which is one of the most respectful and historically linked companies I've seen. It does a WCW fan proud.

    Take or leave it, but I will drop off the podcast episode I mentioned, as it is weird and wonderful that these Tony conversations happened on the same day.

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lordsof...-legacy-series
    Last edited by Mystic; 02-14-2019 at 02:14 AM.

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