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Thread: Ring of Honor

  1. #41
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    I think you're right in that Ring of Honor has never struggled with talent, but more with their identity as a promotion in recent years. They've had such a reliance on their relationship with New Japan, and focused so much time on Bullet Club/The Elite that it's really difficult to say who they are as a company. Much of the time it just feels like talented guys putting on matches with little regard to what Ring of Honor is/was.

  2. #42
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    They have been telling good stories outside of the Elite. Briscoes, SCU, Bully/Flip, Taven's rise; Lethal's rise back to the top, Castle's embattled championship run. I'm not saying the Elite weren't big draws, but the company will still be excellent without them just like they were without Joe, Punk, Danielson, Black, Steen, etc. Yeah, it's a big clump of talent to use at once, but they are reloading. I have no idea who Mark Haskins is.

  3. #43
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    He's from our side of the pond and has been a bit of a player with people like Progress. I think it's probably fair to say that when he's been over in the US he's mostly been turning out for PWG?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  4. #44
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    I guess by default you could say Haskins is a PWG guy, but they didn't book him once this year so it's not really a strong connection. He was actually on the ROH UK tour in August, tho not sure how much of that was broadcast.

    To Xan's point, I guess you're right that ROH has done some story stuff without NJPW/BC in the past couple years, but for better or worse it's been pretty overshadowed. I think ROH will be ok regardless but some of the talent they're signing has been THRIVING and I'd hate to see their momentum stall out if ROH isn't ready with something. Can't say I'm overly taken with the Villain Enterprises thing for PCO and Brody King, love both guys but I don't know if it's the right fit for them. Time will tell, I guess!

  5. #45
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    Interested to hear how ROH is doing with such a big talent switch up happening recently, especially with MSG coming up. Can't say I've heard much yet, so it'll be interesting to see what they put together. Gotta wonder what the crowd reaction will considering, many must have booked with the idea that they'd be seeing guys like Kenny Omega.

    Speaking of, watched this older match recently...

    Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black vs. Kenny Omega 11/8/2008 ROH Bound By Hate


    Watched this one at the suggestion of good ol’ Gooner. Pretty interesting to look back a decade and see the top guys of Raw, Smackdown, and New Japan (well, until recently) facing off! At this point in their careers I’d say it’s very obvious Danielson is holding the hands of the other two to a certain extent, both are supremely athletic but it’s definitely Bryan holding the match together into something cohesive. He does a stupendous job of doing just that, and there are some awesome spots worked in as well. A lionsault onto a bridging pinfall escape is the moment that stood out to me as being especially awesome. Overall this was a great match for showing off the potential of all involved, and now a very interesting curiousity as well due to where the careers of all three men have gone.

  6. #46
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    Less than two minutes in and the double cattle mutilation. I have a feeling this is gonna be a fun match.

    Wow... that Roaring Elbow from AmDrag to Omega followed by the mma elbows into Cattle Mutilation. The last 2:30ish of that match was freaking awesome. Thanks for sharing.
    Last edited by meandi; 02-09-2019 at 09:20 PM.

  7. #47
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    My pleasure, glad you liked it!

  8. #48
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    Just read something on the main page about Jay Lethal breaking a record as the champ. Went to Wiki for some quick research, and all I can gather is it’s because he’s been champ 670+ combined days. That beats Samoa Joe’s 645 day record as champ. Only thing... Joe only had one reign vs Lethal’s two reigns. I hate when company’s “bend” statistics, so to speak.

  9. #49
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    Also a pretty stark contrast between how hot Joe was at that time and how... not hot Lethal is. I like Lethal but it feels like he's only champion because they don't have any ideas and they know he probably won't jump ship at this point.

  10. #50
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    I've always loved Lethal. From when he was no one in TNA's X- Division up until he was throwing shoes and whooing at Flair. I just don't like companies bending the stats and making it sound like he's something more than he's not.

    IE... WWE could've praised Punk even more-so than his 436 or however many day reign it was by adding in his big gold belt titles and when he first won the WWE title from Cena at MITB '11. But the 'E focused solely on the second WWE title reign and built up that 436 day reign as something spectacular instead of adding in his other reigns.

  11. #51
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    WWE apparently has zero interest in Lethal. Delirous is a terrible booker that loves to push his most loyal guys even if they're not good like Matt Taven. Instead of stars who could and should have been on top of the promotion. Lethal is good but Marty and others have been pushed aside for him and others like him and its going to cost ROH in the end. Especially when they crown Taven at MSG in a triple threat cause Marty is leaving the company.

  12. #52
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    Yeah, I wouldn't go so far as to say Taven's bad but the idea of him as ROH champion is entirely uninteresting.

  13. #53
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    Its not that Taven is really bad, its the idea he should be world champion/leader of a company. The only way it can work is if you have a strong face people want to see kill Taven and they don't really have that.

  14. #54
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    For sure, and the idea of him wrestling Lethal for an hour is... yeesh. It's a no thank you from me.

  15. #55
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    if you like car crash wrestling, The Briscoes vs. PCO and Brody King was really fun. Not usually my type of match but they played to all four men's strength and it was done well.

    Also Cobb vs Taylor was a really good hoss battle.

  16. #56
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    Big fan of PCO, the fact that he ended up main eventing an ROH anniversary show is both absurd and wonderful.

  17. #57
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    So, RoH have three teams in the upcoming Crockett Cup this weekend.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  18. #58
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    Pulling for PCO and Brody King to win the whole thing!

    Though they likely won't.

  19. #59
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    I haven't been following Ring of Honor much, but it looks like they're massively struggling right now. Today's Best In The World show looks like it sold really badly.

  20. #60
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    And they had a chance to put the title on Jeff Cobb and didn't go for it. I honestly don't know what they see in Taven, he's not awful but even with a super thin roster it seems like there are guys who blow him out of the water.

  21. #61
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    When I saw the pictures of that attendance the first words that popped into my head were 'circling the drain'.

    Now that's probably an overreaction to be honest, but even so, it's clearly not good when that's the instinctive response.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  22. #62
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    I thought that ROH was mostly suffering from The Elite leaving, but from what I've read, the main problem seems to be that booking is not that great. The general consensus is that no one likes Matt Taven as the champ, and having him beat Jeff Cobb lose clean in a short championship match made people even more upset. There were also people scratching their heads at some of the outcomes of the matches with guys like Bandido and Dragon Lee taking losses. Out of the whole show, the only thing that looked interesting to me was Flip Gordon's heel turn and joining Villain Enterprises.

  23. #63
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    ROH is a perfectly serviceable promotion. But there's very little that stands out about it in 2019. With so many promotions putting out the quality of matches we saw in ROH at its peak (2008 in my opinion), they either need to find something fresh, or accept their place below WWE and AEW, while sort of tied with Impact.

    As for Taven, I'm a fan. He's a solid heel.

  24. #64
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    So it seems Alex Shelley has returned and is immediately in the title picture.

    I am amazed that Shelley is only 36. Feels like I've been watching him almost my whole wrestling fandom!

  25. #65
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    A little surprised he came back, as it felt like he was ready to leave it behind, but hard to stop that itch I guess. I hope the run goes really well for him, he's got so much to offer.

  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    As for Taven, I'm a fan. He's a solid heel.

    This is underselling it; Matt Taven is a great heel. Hell I'd argue he's a great performer. I've seen Taven work several CMLL tours and every time he's gone there he's produced several memorable matches and some legitimately good character work. If anything he's another victim of Ring of Honor's terrible creative team, and it's funny how when everyone bring up ROH's creative woes they never attribute that to Taven's issues. Everything else is ROH's fault but Taven; well he's just immune to that. The reality is that ROH has kept him in that lame Kingdom stable for years now and have surrounded him with guys like TK O'Ryan and Vinny Marseglia, two of the most boring workers in the history of time. Away from them and the Kingdom concept in CMLL Taven has been a legit star. With them he's the leader of a stable that should've ended several years ago surrounded by below average talent. In a different way he's very much been hurt by the same thing Roman Reigns has been and just like Reigns it isn't really Taven's fault. He's a really good performer being backed by a creative team that needed to be overhauled three years ago.


  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    So it seems Alex Shelley has returned and is immediately in the title picture.

    I am amazed that Shelley is only 36. Feels like I've been watching him almost my whole wrestling fandom!
    I work on the Friday that match takes place, with my in-laws in town ,and tickets to NXT Takeover the next night. If I feel I can push my soon to be fiance to go to ANOTHER wrestling show in Toronto, I'll be doing it for seeing Alex Shelley.

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