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  1. #81
    Lamb of LOP anonymous's Avatar
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    I just think every Political Party in the UK right now is invisible or a shambles.

  2. #82
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    It really is shambolic and so, so embarrassing.

    Generally I've always been a little torn about the notion of a People's Vote, leaning towards having one more than not but always recognising the legitimacy people might have for complaining about one. At this point though it does, to me, feel like the only viable way forward. No Deal should be taken off the table in my opinion, meaning a second referendum becomes simple: May's Brexit or No Brexit. If the former wins then the matter really is closed and the Commons would surely, at that stage, be compelled to vote through May's deal (though in the current climate you never do know...). But then if the latter wins...I mean, it'd be foolish to pretend that won't open up a whole other Pandora's Box.

    I feel a little hopeless about it all right now, and the prospect of No Deal, I can't help but notice, keeps slowly looming larger and larger and larger.

  3. #83
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    What a lot of people don't seem to remember in all this is that we keep talking about the 'deal' and 'no deal', but we're not even into talking about the deal yet. We're still stuck on the withdrawal agreement that we had to have done before they'd even talk trade.

    And y'know, given how it's played out, you've got to say that was a very smart move on the EU's part, because we can't even seem to decide what we want.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  4. #84
    Well be living with this for years regardless

  5. #85
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Well, not every day you find the Queen getting involved. You know you are in a constitutional crisis when.....

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  6. #86
    Had the Radio on in the car and heard Labour are calling for Greyling to resign over the ferry company with no boats lol beyond the thick of it now

  7. #87
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Big few days, huh? 11 MP's have broken away from Labour and the Tories in the past couple of days and formed an 'Independent group' in Parliament.

    Far too early to think of them as anything like a new party as yet but it's the first sign of some sort of movement to break the deadlock in parliament, and to shake up what are some pretty unfortunate political pigeon holes.

    I'm sure people have some opinions on all this....?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  8. #88
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    I haven't looked into it too much, but the name that stands out to me there is Chuka Umunna; wasn't he suggested as a future leader for Labour?


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  9. #89
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Briefly, yeah, but question marks about how much support he had and he dropped out too early for there to be any test of how likely he was to win.

    It's a really minor point but with three leaving the Tories the government is now a minority, even with the confidence and supply motion with the DUP. Though that may be more of a maths point than a political reality.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Though that may be more of a maths point than a political reality.
    I think this is actually more like a political reality, Prime - there's no way those three MPs back the Government, nor will the ones that have left Labour. I think the Conservatives are no either counting on their abstentions - they may not back a Labour amendment, for example - or there being enough people like Kate Hoey who will back them on the Labour side.

  11. #91
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I suppose what I meant is that they aren't going to suddenly back a vote of no-confidence that might put Corbyn into power. They will probably abstain, as you say, but if the former Labour members were also to abstain then it doesn't especially hurt as they'd still have a net plus out of the defections, if that makes sense.

    Also worth adding that because of Sinn Fein and the Speaker, the working majority figure is actually slightly different than an actual majority - and that in practice, you only need 322 votes rather than 326 - and with the DUP they currently have 324.


    My guess is that if they do see a round of defections from the likes of Greening, Boles, Grieve etc to this centrist block, or if they lose the DUP, then the government will actually fall. Whether or not a new election can do anything is a matter of guesswork.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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