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  1. #1
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Young Lions Cup - First Round results and Round 2

    Alright everyone, the first round results of the Young Lions Cup are in, and the judges scores make for some very interesting reading. I think everyone is playing pretty well in some areas but that almost everyone needs to do something in order to appeal to all of the judges going forward. Maybe making more use of the trainers that we have on offer, and doing a bit more brainstorming before you start writing? Something to consider. But well done on an excellent first round that certainly garnered some big scores in a number of cases, and was very well received by judges and general readers alike.


    Anyway, the table after the first round is below.

    Code:
    
    Name		RD1	RD2	RD3	Total
    --------------------------------------------------
    
    S. Woodburn	223*	0	0	223
    Drayzera	207	0	0	207
    LWO4Life	194	0	0	194
    Dyn. Billington	186	0	0	186
    Shee		179	0	0	179
    KingZak13	142	0	0	142
    Super Hoody	N/S	0	0	0
     
    The only penalty of the round is for Scottwoodburn, who seemed to miss the rule about not editing columns once they've been posted. I've had a look at the changes and the edits are not especially extensive, and this is the first round of a tournament for new writers so I think the sensible thing to do is err on the side of caution here - so I'm applying the standard minimum penalty for the edits, which takes 2% from each judges scorecard and leaves him top of the list. Meanwhile, Super Hoody seemed to forget all about posting and now will have to try and make it into the second round from a deficit of more than 200 points - which is doable, but unlikely.


    Everyone is still in at this point, so all of you can still take part in the next round. Here are the details.

    Deadline: Saturday 20th July, 17:00 UK Time, 12:00 Eastern Time
    Other timezones available on request


    For the full rules, please see the info and first round thread as all you'll need should be in there.

    Your topic is: binge-watching.

    Your word limit is, once again, 1200.

    Please post your column in the main part of the forum and mark it (YLC-RD2).

    Very best of luck!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  2. #2
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Binge watching?

    Got to admit, my initial thoughts are a total blank on this one.

  3. #3
    Dyna, do you ever watch anything multiple times, especailly in the youtube era? If not, then what would you if you did? What videos do you like most? Or it could be maybe a wrestling promotion where you watch show after show...

  4. #4
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Nope, No and negative!

    Youtube I never use except for when I'm learning to play new songs on guitar. There are some TV shows I watch, but even on Netflix if I manage more than one or two episodes a week I'm doing well. Wrestling wise I only ever watch WWE PPVs, and even that is done at my convenience - I'm still only an hour into Stomping Grounds.

  5. #5
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Perhaps what doesn't appeal about binge watching could be a way into it, then...

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  6. #6
    I don't think using a subject a contrario is forbidden. Can't wait to see what you come up with!

  7. #7
    You could work this to your advantage...it could be about an anti bingewatcher that found something so good, you watched it twice. Or you could talk about how nothing is worth binge watching to you and why. This could reveal your personality in a humorous light.

    Your spin will be unique and could put you ahead if you make it interesting for yourself and the reader.

  8. #8
    Do I shit in the woods? BEAR's Avatar
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    Have to say - Very disappointed so few people reached out to the mentoring on offer. I'm not giving feedback on the columns, I'm here to offer more, use me.

    Barring one, I was hugely unimpressed by the majority of columns, plenty of talent though.

  9. #9
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEAR View Post
    Have to say - Very disappointed so few people reached out to the mentoring on offer. I'm not giving feedback on the columns, I'm here to offer more, use me.

    Barring one, I was hugely unimpressed by the majority of columns, plenty of talent though.
    Got to say, in your role as mentor I'd have thought you should feel obliged to feedback to those who didn't ask for input, and use that as a way of showing how they could develop and how you could have helped. Especially if you weren't impressed.

  10. #10
    The Brain
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    I'm really, really pleased by the avalanche of feedback we did see in the last round. Reminds me of those good old days when I first posted around this place! Would love to see that energy continue from those experienced writers who have so much to offer new writers.

    I'm very happy to help as much as I can in my role as mentor, I've been very busy as of late (as seen by my tardy feedback to the first round) but I'll do what I can to make time and help out any who want it!

  11. #11
    Do I shit in the woods? BEAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DynamiteBillington View Post
    Got to say, in your role as mentor I'd have thought you should feel obliged to feedback to those who didn't ask for input, and use that as a way of showing how they could develop and how you could have helped. Especially if you weren't impressed.
    I’ll help people that want it, such as you. If people genuinely want to be better, they’ll use what’s at their disposal

    To clarify, giving feedback afterwards isn’t my forte, I wouldn’t be able to give anything that others won’t say. Where I do excel, is the creative process, and can really help ideas formulate
    Last edited by BEAR; 07-11-2019 at 12:12 AM.

  12. #12
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Three days to go, and just the one column in so far.

    Not that there's any problem with that, just getting a reminder in there.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  13. #13
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    I'm still waiting for feedback from a couple of the mentors. Had a couple reply since I sent the initial draft out on Friday, but if I don't hear back from the others today mine will probably get posted tomorrow anyway.
    Last edited by DynamiteBillington; 07-17-2019 at 10:37 AM.

  14. #14
    Mediocrity at it's finest kingzak13's Avatar
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    Mine's all finished, I've sent to the mentors to see what they think of it. I should have it up in the next couple days.
    Creating the greatest card in Survivor Series history.
    Booking by Committee: Survivor Series

  15. #15
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Mine just went up.

    Apologies to the mentors who hadn't yet responded if your feedback was still a work in progress - unfortunately due to other commitments the rest of the week today was my personal deadline.

  16. #16
    The Brain
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    Got yours Zak, I'll respond as soon as I can!

  17. #17
    Sent my draft to all the 5 mentors!

    Excited to hear their feedback

  18. #18
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Sorry to the lads that have sent me their columns. Real life stuff and my own writing has been popping up.

    Will be getting around to everything tonight and this weekend.

  19. #19
    Main Pager Maverick's Avatar
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    I've now read all the pieces and am about to send my scores to Prime. Nice improvements from everyone concerned. My overall observation is that everyone needs to work on structure, and using their words effectively (ie not wasting 200 words telling me what binge watching is when I already know).

  20. #20
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    I get that you weren't a fan of my intro, which presumably means you had similar comments on a couple of the other columns (I've not checked out all of them yet but I know a couple had similar intros to mine).

    Trouble is, I know 50% of the mentors I got advice from liked what I'd done and my structure - a similar thing happened in the first round where following advice from a couple of the mentors lost me points from at least one judge based on the feedback comments.

    I guess what I'm saying is how does the relationship between the mentors and judges work? If we're being given advice that loses us points, maybe there's a need for the mentors to copy all the judges on any advice they send so that can be taken into account in the scoring?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DynamiteBillington
    Trouble is, I know 50% of the mentors I got advice from liked what I'd done and my structure - a similar thing happened in the first round where following advice from a couple of the mentors lost me points from at least one judge based on the feedback comments.

    I guess what I'm saying is how does the relationship between the mentors and judges work?
    When it comes to things like grammar and spelling errors (which have been more prevalent in some competitors' drafts than others, obviously), I'd say about 95% of that is black-and-white, and about 95% of the time, the mentors will be on the same page and out-and-out correct on their guidance in that arena.

    When it comes to things like structure, framing, pacing, etc., things get a lot more grey. It's rare that you'll ever have 100% agreement on the nuances of a good column between all five mentors and all three judges, because it's not a math equation. Generally speaking, the hope is that if something is glaringly off-base, you'll have a more-or-less consensus, but in terms of smaller issues, you may get differing opinions on something. There have been disagreements on minor points even between the three judges in the first round. I had a competition column that once scored 98/100 by one judge and, I think, like 71/100 from another judge. It's bound to happen.

    In every piece of pre-feedback I've given, I've said something to the effect of, "Here are my suggestions; at the very least consider them, and use them if you want, but if you don't agree, don't use them. It's your column, and you need to feel confident and comfortable with it." Chances are some of you have received differing advice from the mentors, and although ideally it's not too lopsided in terms of the actual building blocks of writing nor too frequent, it's going to happen because of subjectivity and greyness. Give each piece of advice serious consideration, and go from there.

    Quote Originally Posted by DynamiteBillington
    If we're being given advice that loses us points, maybe there's a need for the mentors to copy all the judges on any advice they send so that can be taken into account in the scoring?
    Personally, I disagree with this. I would never want any of the judges to mark a column how they have, and then see that I suggested something slightly differently, and they feel like they should adjust their score on what I said. The judges will score how they score, and on that trio of judges you've got one of the best panels of pure writers I can remember, and that still doesn't mean that every mentor will agree with every single minor thing (nor will you likely have 100% agreement on every single minor thing between the judges themselves!) It's not a situation where we have an answer key to how the judges feel about each column, and we are giving advice based on that. That's not what column writing is. I know I'm stretching your suggestion to an extreme, and almost playing a bit of devil's advocate, but ultimately that's what it could boil down to.

    To balance it out, I will say that it's not a blind shot into space, either. 90% of the time, if a very good column arises, any given judge and any given mentor is going to concur with the general statement, "that's a very good column". But you'll definitely get differing opinions on the details.

  22. #22
    No complaints from me! All the column writers are awesome and my main aim is to improve and broaden my spectrum

    And to have a good time!

  23. #23
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong, I know it's always going to be subjective - it's just what I do! My job (Business Analyst) involves a lot of questioning and improving processes, then documenting what does & doesn't happen. You always find one user who wants one thing, another user specifically doesn't want that same thing. It's my job to figure out what each person really needs and find that middle ground.

    Just doing the same thing here

  24. #24
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Column writing is an exercise in identity as much as it is anything else. Mentors and us judges, we can pass on feedback about how we feel on structure and technique and the like but the ultimate aim is trial and error on the writers' part, figuring out what works best for them and what doesn't. Your voice is yours, and I guess the idea is to experiment with the pointers given to you from feedback from all eight individuals positioned to do so explicitly in this tournament, combined with your own creative output and opinions, to figure out exactly what your most effective voice is on the page.

    I am a living example of a writer who only got to be as good as whatever people may think of me as being by listening to feedback, using some of it, casting some of it aside and eventually figuring out the best way for me to write to get the best response. My predominant tone, my favoured lexicon, my structural styles, my average column length, whatever my own personality is on the page - it didn't come as the answer to a puzzle posed to me by a collective, or from any uniform feedback (though sometimes universal trends in your feedback might emerge), but from listening to the myriad opinions given to me in feedback and experimenting until I hit upon what I feel is right for me.

    And even now, there are some who will tell me I'm too wordy or too showy! The endgame will always be that your writing won't be for everyone, but feedback can help you find the writing that is for both you and the healthiest majority audience you can find. I think, anyway. Though I know it can get frustrating, especially in a competitive environment, to feel like you're getting conflicting signals. I've suffered from that myself, many times, in many tournies!

    Anyways, I thought a huge improvement this round on the last, from absolutely everyone who posted, and especially wanted to say that I'm delighted with how well I think feedback has been put into practice already too. Look forward to the scoring, and to round three!

    EDIT: That embarrassing moment you realise you missed a column...

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