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  1. #1
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    WWE SummerSlam - LIVE DISCUSSION

    2 matches booked so far.

    Universal Championship
    Brock Lesnar defending vs Seth Rollins

    Raw Women's Championship
    Becky Lynch defends against Natalya.


    Nothing that really grabs my attention, to be fair. But two matches that should deliver in Toronto.

    Other Raw feuds that could end up on the SummerSlam card:
    Revival vs Usos
    Alexa vs Nikki
    Ricochet vs AJ

    And Raw talents without direction but could end up involved somehow due to recent TV time:
    Braun Strowman, Bobby Lashley, Baron Corbin, Drew McIntyre, Gallows/Anderson, Viking Raiders, The Miz, Rey Mysterio, Samoa Joe, Sami Zayn

    I'm surprised to see Drew vs Undertaker wasn't really hinted at tonight, but the Extreme Rules recap focused more on someone else...


    On Smackdown, both mens and womens title pictures are wide open. I have no predictions. Maybe Kofi vs Orton, after RKO had such a focused showing in the battle royal. Bayley could hear from Charlotte, or the rumored Sasha return, or maybe the Mandy/Sonya angle with Ember will lead to something involving the title.

    I'm sure I'm not the only one sensing Kevin Owens vs Shane McMahon

    Finn seems to be feuding with Raw's Bray Wyatt. Shinsuke is the new IC champ. Dolph might be rejuvenating his long standing rivalry with The Miz. Aleister Black had a big PPV win. Ali might return with a goal in mind. New Day are tag champs. Daniel Bryan might be evolving his character some more.

    Elias had his tune up for Undertaker, so maybe that's the special attraction we'll see for Taker at SummerSlam. Had it been Drew, I would have really hoped McIntyre would walk away victorious, leading to a post-Slam title push. With Elias vs Taker, I'm less stringent about Taker putting him over. It wouldn't be a bad thing, but I don't know if I buy Elias as such a top level heel yet. I feel hee needs t a key feud in his rearview with more Ws before beating Undertaker. But, I'm ok being wrong there.

    Shelton has been having eye problems lately. Maybe he's in for something.

    And Drake might be chasing Truth for more 24/7 chuckles.


    I don't regret not getting tickets to SummerSlam, but if Smackdown delivers on the drawing matches more than Raw's current workrate top matches, I might start regretting it.

  2. #2
    Elias seemed to have more momentum as a face, than a heel getting 2 wins over Bobbly Lashley. He hasn't actually done anything of note as a heel on the main roster. Just seems like fodder at this point.

    I'm okay with Kevin Owens vs Shane as long as Owens goes over. It's interesting that their roles are now reversed from their feud back in 2017.

    The only thing that worries me about Ricochet vs AJ Styles is I don't want to see them play hot potato with the US title. That was already done between Joe and Rey Mysterio (even if it wasn't intentional).

  3. #3
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    I liked Elias as a face, and think his potential is there. He'll turn face someday down the road and it has a better chance of working out. He's barely had any real feuds despite being consistent on TV for over a year. They need to have him do something as a heel first, in my opinion. Then once he's got that one heel angle/rivalry, there is a higher potential for a face run. Will WWE get it right? That's where I am doubtful. I like the programming, but developing faces and heels is one part they still struggle with.

    I'm ok with the "hot potato" if the angle works. When titles are passed too often as ineffective, I think of the Attitude Era. But this feud is a big focus of Raw, and the title changes are still memorable enough for it not to bother me.

  4. #4
    Doesn't Styles losing the US title at Summerslam kill his new found momentum?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeLostInRewind View Post
    Doesn't Styles losing the US title at Summerslam kill his new found momentum?
    Possibly, but it's all in the execution. Did Samoa Joe lose momentum dropping the US title to Ricochet? WWE was dumb and moved him up to the WWE title, but the point is that the booking was the key here and they gave him something to not lose momentum yet. AJ can put AJ over, and then move onto something else. While WWE is always going to struggle to give fair focus to the entire roster with their limited TV time, I don't think AJ Styles is at any risk of losing a spot on TV.

  6. #6
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    I feel like doing something with The (OC) Club at SummerSlam might be better than an AJ singles match. Maybe a six man tag up against Ricochet and a couple of partners.

  7. #7
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    I really like that idea Oliver. Not every feud needs to have a PPV singles match. Have a nice full octane 6 man tag match to get good energy, like something to start the show at a fast pace. Then save the singles rematch for Night of Champions.

    Trish vs Charlotte... I like it. Marquee matches like this add a lot to a card. Reminds me of how WrestleMania would be booked with title matches, but also the Undertaker Streak challenge match. It became a main event without a title involved.


    Confirmed matches:
    Brock vs Seth
    Not too crazy about this, but I'm thinking Seth defeats Brock in convincing fashion. The nutshot at Mania was smart at the time, but if the feud is going, Seth should get a crowning win. Defeating Brock clean would be a good move (though, my opinion overall is that Seth shouldn't be the top guy of the Raw brand).
    If Seth does win convincingly, this is where Drew McIntyre will fit in nicely leading into Night of Champions/Hell in a Cell.

    Nattie vs Becky
    Meh. Will likely be a good match, but it's one I don't really care for much at this time, other than Becky is a star, and Nattie is good in the ring.

    Bayley vs Ember
    Not sure what to think of this one. I like the more serious competitor version of Bayley, but Ember (despite her flaws) is someone I would strap a rocket to.

    Fiend vs Finn
    Shouldn't take up too much time on the card, but it should showcase this new version of Bray as best as possible so that he's credible moving forward. Anything horror related gets my attention.

    Owens vs Shane
    It's very odd that Shane got wins over Miz and Roman Reigns, but his reign of terror could be ended by Kevin Owens of all people. I'm not complaining, because Kevin is showing signs of great babyface star material, and WWE needs some new hero blood

    Kofi vs Orton
    I love New Day, and feel that if the goal was to crown one of them as the first black WWE champ, it should have been Big E. But, they went with Kofi. And while he's not the top guy, he's not booked like the top guy, and his matches aren't as exciting as they likely should be, it's been an enjoyable run. It just feels midcard.
    But, Orton changes this. Now it feels main event. And this is a match I think Kofi should win to solidify his title run. And then book him as a main event guy from here on out. Don't have him face recently failed contenders, like Owens and Samoa Joe. Have him face true top dogs. If we stick to separate brands, then there isn't much on Smackdown. Daniel Bryan WrestleMania rematch, maybe if the IC title run build Shinsuke back up, or he gets babyface challenges from Roman Reigns, the new Kevin Owens. Or, in a way that keeps the stable together, Big E.

    Rumored/hinted:
    Charlotte vs Trish
    AJ vs Ricochet (or Oliver's 6 man tag)
    Revival vs Usos
    Miz/HBK vs Dolph (meh)

    Damn, that's a solid card.

    Top level names not yet with direction:
    Roman Reigns, Shinsuke, Samoa Joe, Rey Mysterio, Baron Corbin, Lacey Evans, Lashley, Strowman, Aleister, Andrade, Ali, Big E + Xavier, Bryan, womens tag titles

  8. #8
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    Add Goldberg vs Dolph, I guess?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  9. #9
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    That's...weird, right? I mean, storyline beats that have been hit aside, it's just a weird match to have Goldberg involved in.

  10. #10
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    I mean, I'm not really following, but from a distance it certainly looked weird.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  11. #11
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    It's weird in a lot of ways. Seems like a desperate way to add in a legend's name for extra subs or buyrates. If Dolph wins, I will love it. But I'm not delusional. It's more nostalgia booking which is a prime reason WWE is struggling critically these days.

  12. #12
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    There's a nagging voice in the back of my mind that says this is similar to the Jericho/Goldberg stuff in WCW, only with a less good antagonist and a less hot protagonist.

    I feel like if the match is more than Spear, Jackhammer, done it's been overplayed. Maybe some stalling from Dolph and a cheap shot here or there, but otherwise it shouldn't be much more or take up much space.

  13. #13
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    With how many matches are booked, you're likely right. But seeing more part time vets beat full time talent is just getting me down. I don't think Dolph is the right right guy to go over Goldberg necessarily, but I'd be happy with anyone full time getting that rub at this point.

  14. #14
    Macyntire isn't doing anything at summerslam, so it should be him taking on Goldberg and going over. He needs to be redeemed from his 2 losses to Roman Reigns.

  15. #15
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    Thei think Dolph is the perfect guy to get squashed by Goldberg because he sucks lol..

    Seriously, its not like Dolph is a major player for WWE. He does his job but they dont have plans to push him. Goldberg is a guy that they think commands attention. Nothing more nothing less.

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    I think we have to remember that Goldberg is not only coming off two straight losses but that his last loss was in a match most people thought to be the worst match of the year. If you're WWE and you do want Goldberg to put over someone further down the line then its in your best interest to not only give him a few wins but also to have him look good while doing so. I think that's definitely the plan with Dolph. I'm sure WWE could've easily found a lower card guy to squash but they love dicking around Dolph so I guess he's the guy to do it.


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    I don't even think its going that far. if it were me, I'd put Bray over Goldberg at mania seeing how he keeps taking out legends on Raw but I think WWE just wants Goldberg on their shows and feel they can sacrifice low card guys (and that is Dolph lately who was written off TV a few months ago and has only been brought back to job)

  18. #18
    I know it'll be on the preshow but I'm happy Loney Orcan gets to wrestle at SummerSlam. The guy has been a workhorse for the company and deserves the moment.

  19. #19
    I can honestly see Natalya winning the belt from Becky Lynch, and later down the line full fledge turning heel and feuding with Ronda for it. Now after watching last night's match between Ember Moon and Natalya, Natalya came out looking like a heel much like she did on Raw, so I'm now even more confused about who's suppose to be billed as the heel between Becky and Natalya....

  20. #20
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    Maybe there is no heel, and maybe you (and I) just need to stop overthinking it.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see a returning Ronda after the match, though. Although all her merch is currently reduced on WWE Shop, whatever that means.

    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    I don't even think its going that far. if it were me, I'd put Bray over Goldberg at mania seeing how he keeps taking out legends on Raw but I think WWE just wants Goldberg on their shows and feel they can sacrifice low card guys (and that is Dolph lately who was written off TV a few months ago and has only been brought back to job)
    I'd have Bray going over everyone right now, to be honest. Guy has returned in damn fine shape, clearly putting the work in, and is pulling off a split personality gimmick with aplomb. WWE hasn't had someone this good at carrying multiple gimmicks since Foley, and probably not had someone that has felt this effectively creepy and threatening since the original couple of years of Kane.

  21. #21
    There could be no heel, but both of their actions are heelish, which makes you question it.

  22. #22
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    Becky/Nattie, I wonder if that is Heyman influencing for less straight heel vs face dynamics, and more shade of grey tweener stuff?

  23. #23
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    Renamed and bumped in case anyone wants to discuss what's going on as it happens...

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  24. #24
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    Loving that Riccochet is wearing a Nightwing inspired outfit!

  25. #25
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    All I've seen is people saying he looks like a chair.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  26. #26
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    Dude was never getting compared to a chair when he was a Prince!


  27. #27
    The ending for kofi and randy was good. Fans need to learn how to handle a non finish when it advances a story.

  28. #28
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    Solid, if unspectacular, show. Only time I found myself zoning out was during the Charlotte/Trish match, and that was only when Charlotte was in control and pacing around talking trash to Trish. I think at 3.5 hours (didnít watch the pre-show), that was just long enough to not seem too rushed but not overkill, either.

  29. #29
    The fiend was something thats for sure.

  30. #30
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    Thatís true. In a perfect world, though, Balor wouldnít be leaving for time off, and we couldíve got a three match series between these two. Have it just be Bray vs Balor initially with Balor getting the victory and Bray snapping and releasing The Fiend for the second match (essentially the match we saw tonight), and then go Demon vs Fiend in the third match to end the feud. A bit of wasted potential there, I think.

  31. #31
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    The Fiend needs to be protected in the way that Bray Wyatt wasn't. The Fiend needs to win matches and feuds. Not all, but most for a while.

    Also, the crowd hated the Orton/Kofi finish because it sucked. During the KO/Shane match we were getting teased with a countout victory for Shane all throughout the match, which then made the Orton/Kofi countout all more sh!tty.

    There are a number of ways the match could have had a nonfinish, for instance, have Orton begin to taunt Kofi's family only for Kofi to grab the Kendo stick and get DQed, not counted out. You get the same finish, but not with a BS countout.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by meandi View Post
    That’s true. In a perfect world, though, Balor wouldn’t be leaving for time off, and we could’ve got a three match series between these two. Have it just be Bray vs Balor initially with Balor getting the victory and Bray snapping and releasing The Fiend for the second match (essentially the match we saw tonight), and then go Demon vs Fiend in the third match to end the feud. A bit of wasted potential there, I think.
    I still think we will get that inevitable match. Maybe Balor gets destroyed again on Raw, Balor goes away and comes back knowing he needs the Demon to have a chance. Survivor Series match.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Button View Post
    The ending for kofi and randy was good. Fans need to learn how to handle a non finish when it advances a story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post

    There are a number of ways the match could have had a nonfinish, for instance, have Orton begin to taunt Kofi's family only for Kofi to grab the Kendo stick and get DQed, not counted out. You get the same finish, but not with a BS countout.
    Gotta agree with Powder. Non-finishes aren't an issue, but one which almost seemed like a mistake is. I think a count out can work if both guys are brawling with such intensity that they lose control. This eventually happened, but it wasn't happening before the 10 count. Powder's DQ idea would have felt much more effective.

    That said, it also would have been a near copy of Slam last year, with AJ and Samoa Joe

  34. #34
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    I come to this with only having watched the bits of SummerSlam that interest me, but - in the opinion of those who watched it, how much of SummerSlam's success was down to matches not being overly long? I just noticed on Wikipedia that only two matches went over 15 minutes on the night, and nothing was over 17 minutes.

    I remember thinking the same about one of the more recent Manias - I think 31. There were only 2/3 matches that went over that mark, nothing getting too close to the 20 minutes mark (I think HHH vs Sting was 18 minutes or something).

    Just wondering if that's a lesson WWE need to pick up on and learn - a leaner card in terms of match times tends to see a more favourable response, both from crowds and post-show fans/reviews. Seems to me that this year's has gone down pretty well.

  35. #35
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    I think there's a logic to more matches that are shorter. I don't think it should be that way everytime. I think Roman vs Buddy Murphy on SD was a great example of how the match went longer than I expected, and deserved it, with an entertaining result. But often, whether it's AEW, NJPW, or WWE, some of the longer matches feel like they are stalling, or are long for the sake of being long. Brock Lesnar's run has really highlighted to me how you can have an amazing match in less than 10 minutes. I often wonder if that's better for the performers overall as well. Restholds are a necessary evil, and it allows recovery time for wrestlers for real, but I think they can sometimes remove some of content of a match so that rest holds wouldn't be needed as much.

    SummerSlam just flowed well. WrestleMania was tough to sit through due to length, but also because of so much time used in between matches. They all could have been barn burner 15 minute matches, and felt long if they took 10-15 minute between each one for a HOF segment, or a backstage special guest, or HHH's entrance...etc.

    If WWE has anything to learn, it's to tighten up everything. Attention spans are shorter, and I'm guessing too many fans are happy watching highlights on Youtube instead of the actual WWE product. If you make the matches shorter, you can keep attentions better, while making the matches more worth the time to invest in, rather than just searching highlights.

  36. #36
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    That, and fuck Iron Man Matches.

  37. #37
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    More or less than Last Man Standing matches? I've got to say, LMS matches piss me off more than any other match type, especially in WWE. You're already hampered by a ten count that lasts 30 seconds, and then they do it for ridiculous stuff. 'I punched him and he fell down - count it ref!' '1........2........'. Meanwhile, the audience slowly dies.

    Texan/Mexican Death Matches have it right, make them get a cover first then count.

    I think you're spot on with that assessment, Pen. I've always preferred SummerSlam to Mania because there's less bullshit on the card so it immediately runs better. I feared it was going to go very much the other way not so long ago, but they've reined it in.

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