Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 75
  1. #1
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    4,177

    Hell in a Cell 2019

    Thread for the next WWE PPV offering, Hell in a Cell from Sacramento on October 6th.

    No card released as yet but I'm sure people have some speculation already about what we might see on the show.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,428
    Fiend vs Rollins in the cell is set, no?

    Guessing we might see a few rematches from last night.

  3. #3
    Early card predictions:

    Bray Wyatt vs Seth Rollins (c) for the Universal title in a Hell in a Cell
    Sasha Banks vs Becky Lynch (c) for the raw womens title maybe in Hell in a cell?
    Bayley (c) vs Charlotte for the smackdown womens title
    Randy Orton vs Kofi Kingston (c) for the wwe championship insidie Hell in a cell

    Ideally, like I stated before, I would have had Sasha and Bayley vs Becky and Charlotte in a winner take all Hell in a cell tag match for both titles.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    620
    Sasha vs Lynch works in the Cell, as does Orton vs Kofi, if it were to happen.

    I have an issue with Rollins vs Fiend in the Cell though. I know the Cell gimmick isn't what it was back in 1997-1999 anymore, but they've honestly done a mostly decent job having blood feuds end up in the Cell. It's definitely not a perfect record, but despite the watered down gimmick, most of the matches fit. Fiend vs Seth just doesn't. The story has been great so far though.

  5. #5
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,163
    I think having 3 HIAC matches is a bit much. I completely agree that Wyatt vs Rollins does not need the cell, but both Woemn's matches do.

    So open the PPV with one Cell match, and close with the other.

    What also would not surprise me, is if we get Rowan and Harper vs Bryan and Reigns in another HIAC match. But please do not have Bryan turn on Reigns to side with/be the mastermind behind Rowan and Harper. I really like what they are doing with Rowan now, and being relegated to being a lackey again would be terrible.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,428
    Just keep the cell down and do all the matches in it.

    I jest.

  7. #7
    Looks like Bayley vs Charlotte has been added to the card, but that was to no one's surprise. Anyone else feel like it needed a stipulation because of the finish at the last PPV?

    Honestly not really sure what else they can put on the card. Rivalries have been all over the place. Gallows and Anderson lost to Viking Raiders twice already so there's no logic in having them fight again. AJ Styles beat Cedric 2-3 times already so there's no logic in having them face off once more. I could see Lashley vs Rusev, but it feels too soon for that one. Who is Nakamara feuding with again? Neither set of tag champs for the men's division appear to be feuding with anyone. While some people may approve of how WWE has been putting their focus on promoting this week's Raw, NXT and Smackdown over the last few weeks, I feel Hell in a Cell's build up suffered as a result.

    I know there's an argument that the main matches have already been announced, but the card having only 4 matches announced regardless of the unannounced matches being midcard matches is still underwhelming.

    EDIT: 4 "new" matches confirmed for the PPV:

    -Nikki Cross/Alexa Bliss versus Asuka/Kairi Sane for the WWE women’s tag team championship

    -Baron Corbin versus Chad Gable

    -Natalya versus Lacey Evans

    -The Viking Raiders/Mystery Partner versus The O.C.

    Only one I question is Natalya vs Lacey Evans. Just why? Won't this be the 4th time in 5 weeks they went one on one?
    Last edited by LifeLostInRewind; 10-06-2019 at 05:19 PM.

  8. #8
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,163
    It is really sad, that Lacy Evans debuted and was immediately put into a feud with becky Lynch, where for the most part she was treated as a badass, and a despite being green, a main event star. Once she was defeated, she is now relegated to a low midcarder who just lost to Nattie on the preshow. Lacy needed the win, and the loss would do nothing for Nattie, just like a won would have.

  9. #9
    Well, maybe Lacey will go to smackdown and have a fresh start.

  10. #10
    According to twitter, Randy Orton vs Ali will be at HIAC. Random if you ask me.
    Last edited by LifeLostInRewind; 10-06-2019 at 06:47 PM.

  11. #11
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,163
    Wow was that ending a piece of shit, and the crowd let Vince hear all about it. First the loud boos. Then the AEW chants, with more boos, and a Restart the Match chants, with another AEW chant followed by even more boos.

    How can you DQ someone in a no DQ match?

    Vince, you screwed up big time.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    901
    It really was a garbage ending. Like... how did the chairshots, ladder shot and toolbox shots not deserve a dq, but the sledgehammer was magically enough for the ref to decide to call it?

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    620
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    It is really sad, that Lacy Evans debuted and was immediately put into a feud with becky Lynch, where for the most part she was treated as a badass, and a despite being green, a main event star. Once she was defeated, she is now relegated to a low midcarder who just lost to Nattie on the preshow. Lacy needed the win, and the loss would do nothing for Nattie, just like a won would have.
    You don't understand wrestling booking. Every promotion in the history of forever has had new stars show up, shoved into a main event push, but booked to lose. The goal for Lacey was to give Becky some wins, while Lacey gets established. Rewind back to Mania 2 with Bundy going wild, until losing to Hogan and then dropping to the midcard. After that, DiBiase, Mr Perfect, Earthquake, Slaughter... Then when Hart became champ, that was Razor's role... Vader to Shawn Michaels...etc. I can keep going, but you wouldn't comprehend anyways.

    Simply, Lacey is a definite star for the future, but she isn't ready yet. Not in the ring, but her character work is pretty good. So use that while it was hot to help push the new face of the women's division (same thing Baron did for Seth in the men's). Lacey gets some credibility back by defeating Nattie, and is now in line for another title shot whenever WWE feels the time is right.

    I'm not saying I would have booked it this way, but I also don't think it's an incorrect method.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Vince, you screwed up big time.
    Do you still think Vince is scared, and panicked when rebooking HIAC after Dynamite? If anything, he stuck to his guns more than ever.

    I personally can't imagine how people backstage thought this would work. I usually scoff that the "Vince is out of touch and surrounds himself with Yes men" online trash talk, but it's really hard to imagine nobody spoke up when they heard this idea. And if nobody did, then I have to believe they held back because they knew there was no point.

    This was just bad. I usually like finding the silver lining and enjoyable parts to bad shows, or at least comprehending why they go the route they go. But I can't wrap my head around this. If the goal wasn't to pass the title to Bray, then this match just shouldn't have been booked.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    765
    Not since the 2015 Royal Rumble (coincidentally the show where I realized I couldn't watch WWE anymore) have I seen this much of an uproar. People are TICKED. I doubt it matters in the long run (WWE seems to have at least two or three big "I can't believe they booked this crap" moments a year and it never really effects them), but it sounds like there will be repercussions to the talent at least. Seth Rollins quite frankly sounds deader than Angel Eyes at the end of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.


  15. #15
    This war between Vince and his paying fans really needs to end. Talk about throwing a tool box, ladder, and chair on the hand that feeds you and having the referee stop the match for it.

    Did I see blood and gimmicked head shots...what's with this blood and guts stuff, btw?

    The WWE wipes its ass with good faith.
    See the latest of my Ric Flair saga click here. http://lordsofpain.tv/showthread.php...acock-(Part-2) View my story inspired by colorful wrestlers I've come across in my fandom. http://lordsofpain.tv/showthread.php...-the-Challenge

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,428
    Completely agree with Pen - if there are two or more 'buts' when booking a match, just don't book it. 'We want Seth vs The Fiend, but The Fiend can't lose but we don't want to take the belt off of Seth' - then don't book it.

    Once they'd booked it, it was clear the only option (in my opinion, anyway) was to put the belt on The Fiend and run with something different in the main event. Not only would that have been interesting in a 'who can stop The Fiend' way, it also gives Raw something very noticeably different to the other wrestling shows - including their own. If AEW and NXT are going to be the 'wrestling' shows, and Smackdown is going to fill itself with MMA and Boxing 'real sports', why not have Raw be the cartoony, over the top show with all sorts of Fiend nonsense heading it up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    It is really sad, that Lacy Evans debuted and was immediately put into a feud with becky Lynch, where for the most part she was treated as a badass, and a despite being green, a main event star. Once she was defeated, she is now relegated to a low midcarder who just lost to Nattie on the preshow. Lacy needed the win, and the loss would do nothing for Nattie, just like a won would have.
    I mean, Lacey has beaten Nattie on Raw a week ago. As well as on Raw a month ago. Nattie also already had one win over Lacey (mid-September). They basically put them level so they can have a feud ending rubber match on Raw.

    The women's division(s) lacked a midcard badly, and now they've given them something other than the title pictures. It's a good thing.

    Whilst on the topic - I think the only matches I enjoyed on the show last night were the four women's bouts, including Lacey/Nattie. Sasha vs Becky was probably the best cell match since Usos/New Day, if not before, Charlotte/Bayley was character driven and quite enjoyable (although I kind of hated the Bayley crying bit at the end - what's that supposed to do, have us sympathise? With the heel? I think they should have had her absolutely lose her shit on Charlotte), and the tag match was decent and had Green Mist. I'll always mark for Green Mist.

    The men's matches largely shit the bed. Orton looked like he'd taken some Nyquil, Gable/Corbin was a dire sequel to their previously strong matches, the six man was awful and heatless, and the main event was entirely the wrong way round in terms of who was beating on who. The only slightly good men's match was the tornado tag, but that suffered from it's initial slow first half.

    Come to think of it, and to take this post full circle, I think if they'd run the main event in completely the opposite way and had The Fiend just tearing Rollins apart, it could have worked, especially if they'd called it off due to violencia excesiva. It's probably the only way that they could have kept The Fiend's aura strong and given them some kind of non-finish - heck, you could have taken it out of the cell somehow and had The Fiend do some kind of backstage spot that ended the match without a finish, like locking Seth in a box and launching him into space so I never have to watch him wrestle again.

    That might have worked.

  17. #17
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    4,177
    Maybe at this point it's something I shouldn't still have an opinion on, but this is why booking gimmick PPVs for the sake of it, rather than because you've got a reason to have that kind of match, might be the worst idea going.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  18. #18
    Charlotte/Bayley was character driven and quite enjoyable (although I kind of hated the Bayley crying bit at the end - what's that supposed to do, have us sympathise? With the heel? I think they should have had her absolutely lose her shit on Charlotte)
    This might be a vehicle to a full fledged heel turn where Bayley truly becomes dark.

  19. #19
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,163
    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    You don't understand wrestling booking. Every promotion in the history of forever has had new stars show up, shoved into a main event push, but booked to lose. The goal for Lacey was to give Becky some wins, while Lacey gets established. Rewind back to Mania 2 with Bundy going wild, until losing to Hogan and then dropping to the midcard. After that, DiBiase, Mr Perfect, Earthquake, Slaughter... Then when Hart became champ, that was Razor's role... Vader to Shawn Michaels...etc. I can keep going, but you wouldn't comprehend anyways.

    Simply, Lacey is a definite star for the future, but she isn't ready yet. Not in the ring, but her character work is pretty good. So use that while it was hot to help push the new face of the women's division (same thing Baron did for Seth in the men's). Lacey gets some credibility back by defeating Nattie, and is now in line for another title shot whenever WWE feels the time is right.

    I'm not saying I would have booked it this way, but I also don't think it's an incorrect method.
    I do, but I do not understand why Vince does what he does. If he wanted Lacy to become a star, then why shove her in the first feud with Becky right after she became Becky Two Belts? Was there anyone who thought that she would lose to Lacy? No. As you have even said in years past, take a look to your own history and learn how to properly build stars, through the midcard. How hard would it have been to have Lacy make her debut at the Rumble exactly as she did, where she dominated for a long while, then later upon her main roster debut, you get some veterans stepping up to this arrogant kid to try put her down. You have Alicia Fox, Dana Brooke, Naomi, Nattie (who she is currently in a program with), Tamina, Mickie James, and Carmella, all veterans to whom Lacy could have/should have began tearing through for a year or two building her up. Even if we take a one off match with any one of the big 4, Becky, Charlotte, Sasha, or Bayley where she faces any one of them on a random RAW and looks great in a loss, she gains cred.

    John Cena debuted against Angle, and after his loss, you had backstage segments where everyone congratulated the kid, even Taker stepped to him and gave his approval, but he lost and then was built up through low card and midcard matches. Hell he did not even get a push until he found his rapper gimmick.

    Putting a wet behind the ears "rookie" into a main event title feud where there is no where to go but down after a loss sets the character back months to years. Lacy is a WWE product without indy or other promotion experience. KO and Paige were thrust into the spotlight, but KO was established for years on the indy circuit and Paige also had years of experience prior to the WWE.

    Lacy will be big, and hopefully she builds her resume, but the WWE needs to look to its past.

    The Rock, HHH, HBK, Bret Hart, Macho Man, Warrior, SCSA, Cena, Edge, Bryan, Miz, Diesel all were midcarders for years winning and feuding over the IC/US Title building up their status prior to becoming main event players. These are the biggest names in WWF/E lore and they all spent years in the lower and midcard before jumping into the main event scene.

    Bundy was established in territories prior to the WWF, and was brought in as yet another "monster" for Hogan to beat. What happened to Bundy after the WM2 loss? Oh yeah, he was down in the midcard losing to almost everyone, and 1 year later after losing to Hogan Bundy was in a WM3 match against Hillbilly Jim with midget wrestlers. Bundy went from a monster to a joke is less than a year.

    But you are right, I do not understand booking.


    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    Do you still think Vince is scared, and panicked when rebooking HIAC after Dynamite? If anything, he stuck to his guns more than ever.

    I personally can't imagine how people backstage thought this would work. I usually scoff that the "Vince is out of touch and surrounds himself with Yes men" online trash talk, but it's really hard to imagine nobody spoke up when they heard this idea. And if nobody did, then I have to believe they held back because they knew there was no point.

    This was just bad. I usually like finding the silver lining and enjoyable parts to bad shows, or at least comprehending why they go the route they go. But I can't wrap my head around this. If the goal wasn't to pass the title to Bray, then this match just shouldn't have been booked.
    With his booking of the main event, and the fans reaction, he should have rethought his booking. Sticking to his guns pissed off his live audience so much so that reports have been coming in that they stayed in the arena to chant further disappointment.

    Vince cut off his nose to spite his face with his choices last night, and it shows. Maybe tonight we get something better.
    Last edited by Powder; 10-07-2019 at 08:29 AM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    620
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    But you are right, I do not understand booking.
    We knew.

  21. #21
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,163
    Typical.

  22. #22
    Was there any hints in the previous weeks that the Kubaki warriors would turn heel?

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    620
    Not on TV. I think their social media hinted at something though. I could be wrong as I don't have twitter, and am judging by news headlines.

  24. #24
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,163
    Do they have any connection to The Great Muta since he made the Green Mist famous?

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    355
    Quote Originally Posted by LifeLostInRewind View Post
    Was there any hints in the previous weeks that the Kubaki warriors would turn heel?
    I think trying to put WWE's main roster booking into a logical mindset is like trying to swim without getting wet.

    Thanks for the heads up all. After Smackdown I already was thinking of skipping this PPV. Your comments here have confirmed that I have better things to spend my time on. The second I saw that there was a DQ in a Hell In A Cell match I knew this PPV was complete shite. How can people within the company see the booking and not see problems? Is it just that much of a horrible atmosphere where you cannot offer advice or feedback out of fear of hurting big wig fragile egos? Or is everyone just on absolute cruise control? Either way Main roster WWE is the drizzling shits of the professional wrestling world in 2019.


  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    620
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Typical.
    Let me try to help. Is your point that even though it's a common booking method, that you don't like it? On that point, I 50/50 agree with you. Anytime they try this, there is a chance you can't rebuild them. You're absolutely correct.

    But in 2019, which talent was a bigger priority? Becky or Lacey? I think the obvious answer is Becky. So she needed to win. Can we agree there?

    OK, now the discussion ends up being who needed to lose to Becky. Considering the Raw roster at the time, Becky didn't have a lot of options. Most of the possible challengers were way below her. Consider how well received the angle with Natalya came off when she earned the SummerSlam title shot. It seemed like a foregone conclusion that Becky will walk through SummerSlam as champion, and many fans weren't interested in the angle or match. The only person who could have potentially created intrigue was the unknown Lacey Evans. And they accomplished it. I'm not saying the angle was amazing, but it was the best option to what Raw had available, and they did the most possible for all involved.

    Had Sasha or Ronda not been away, or if Raw had access to the Smackdown women earlier on, maybe there would have been better options. But there wasn't at the time.

    And consider how over Lacey is today. She isn't the most over talent, but she's definitely more over than she was before the angle with Becky, and she's certainly more credible than she was in NXT. Her character is better developed, and something as simple as the Draft can put her back in the title picture. If Raw booked a fatal 4 way for the womens title on any Raw with the current roster, Lacey would be one of the top options. If a midcard womens title would be available, Lacey would be one of the top options.

    So that angle you're deriding was in no way damaging to Lacey Evans, nor to Becky Lynch. It just wasn't as interesting as the current Sasha vs Becky angle has been, and the matches were never of any interest. But for story and building up both women for their futures, it more than did the job.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kleckamania View Post
    is everyone just on absolute cruise control?
    That is bound to be part of the problem. I feel they concentrated so much elsewhere, that this became less important. And sadly, HIAC is already a less important event on any year, nevermind one where they were surrounded by AEW and Premiere Week. To me, I would have had all the WWE shows connect to each other in some way. Finish the Raw premiere with a hook to check out NXT, then end NXT with a hook to catch the Fox debut of SD, and the most obvious is to end SD with a reason to catch HIAC. I was totally fine with not getting many matches booked for the PPV at first, because I truly believed SD (with what turned out to be 3.8 million viewers) would be the best place to book the matches missing from the HIAC card. Even with the weirdo direction WWE went with the WWE title picture, I would have booked a face to face between Cain and Brock for HIAC. If you didn't want them to have a match, then carry the story in some small way to make ppl want to tune in to the PPV. If you don't to spend for the extra dates, make it just an announcement that Heyman and Rey Mysterio would be there...etc ANYTHING would have been better than nothing booked during the time on Fox, and then announcing the predictable matches on social media.

    I don't know a boss in any job I've ever had who wouldn't have seen the week WWE had this week, and not had something better planned for HIAC. I've had some terrible bosses, and I currently have one of the worst management teams I've ever worked for in my life, and they all would have at least put more thought into the whatever the equivalent would be for HIAC.
    Last edited by PEN15v2; 10-07-2019 at 09:27 AM.

  27. #27
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,163
    I agree that there is not many options for top level talent for Women on the main roster, and now that NXT will probably become a true third brand, I do not see complete talent raids so that roster will not not become diminished.

    But that being said. Lacey had 3 PPV matches and a 2 month long feud with Becky. Lacey can talk, and has a great finisher, and a good look to her and she is getting better in the ring, but she was exposed in the feud with Becky.

    The WWE did this to themselves by not elevating their own talent. They knew for months that Becky was going to win at Mania, so why not build up someone to be the challenger to Becky post Mania. Asuka was still floundering around at the time. She could have stepped up or been placed in the same position as Lacey to be a stop gap for Becky. Asuka is a former champion, so if she confronted Becky, at least in kayfabe it makes sense.

    Lacey could have been a RAW match against Becky while Becky was feuding with Asuka, and Asuka comes down and distracts Becky allowing Lacey to get a quick roll up (but not the Women's right) for a win. Or even, again to follow their own history. Becky and Lacey have a 10-15 minute great TV match where Lacey loses, but comes off as a legit threat, but needs some more seasoning.

    That is better booking than shoving Lacey into a no win title feud. if she wins, she is too green and the fans crap all over it as Becky is white hot at the time. If she loses she is sent packing and has to be built back up as she is doing now.

    I do not know if Lacey's gimmick can lead to a face turn, but I'm sure it could, and I can see her being a big star. I can just see Vince loving a Lacey vs Charlotte title match at a future Mania. But why book a blue chip prospect into a no win situation when there are other options.

  28. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    620
    Because it wasn't "no win" as you claim. Lacey is in a better position today than she was before WrestleMania. The work with Becky helped her massively.

  29. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    355
    There are multiple channels to build wrestlers up in, the channel they put Lacey through points to them seeing a lot of potential in her. Putting her up against the best right away, then building her up through defeat is them trying to get you to notice her ASAP. A loss there absolutely doesnt hurt her, unless it is a total squash. Her match with Becky was hardly that. It was pretty damn close, and entertaining. WWE see's her as a star, there is just a way to build that star. WWE uses blueprints at this point. Trust me, this is a big build for Lacey. The tipoffs are in the details.

    Another build is to have someone run undefeated like you mentioned, Powder, and that is typically used for attraction style wrestlers- I.e. ones WWE doesn't view as long term potential. Short term money. Like Ryback, or Rusev. Gotta make them a threat to everyone, so that someone gets the rub off them in the end. If they sent Lacey down that channel, ultimately, you'd wind up more pissed in the end if you like her.

    They have plans for her. People forget she was a Military Police Officer in the Marines. She's not just the busty pretty one and that's why she got a job. I think she does a great job in her character work considering. WWE sees a lot in her. You can tell by how they are booking her.


  30. #30
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,163
    I didn't want or say an undefeated run, but a build through the midcard.

    For instance a Lacey vs Bayley or Sasha feud now would be good since both lost their matches last night and need opponents.

  31. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    620
    So, like the one she's having right now with Natalya?

  32. #32
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,163
    Yes, but that feud(s) should have been before the Championship feud. Build prior, not rebuld after.

  33. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    620
    You really are being the typical online fan: "if it didn't go down this exact way I envision it, it's wrong"

    The fact is that Lacey is better off now than she was before that feud.
    The feud was likely a test to see if she does in fact have as much potential as we are currently discussing. Her feuding with Dana Brooke would not have been a fair way to judge her abilities.
    You just said you wanted a midcard feud, giving examples for right now, mentioning Bayley and Sasha losing just last night. So why are you now changing it to "she should have have these midcard feuds before the title shot vs Becky"?

  34. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,428
    To be honest, I don't think it matters. They could have spent 6, 9, 12, 18, 24, 36 months building Lacey Evans 'up' to a title shot, and it might have got her some momentum going in to the title match - but who do you spend those months giving her wins over? She's about to win a feud against Natalya, but is there anybody else that could be considered as a 'gatekeeper' type talent she could get a win over? Beating Dana Brooke and Tamina is fine, but there are only so many times she could do it before it loses impact - and given they're already the bottom of the totem pole it's not really going to register on the radar.

    There's this stubborn rejection of anything other than 'midcard/tag team...slow build...prove yourself' as a build up for new talent amongst some fans, and honestly I think it's a bit blind. As Kleck says, there are many ways to establish a talent. Lacey get her establishment on the roster highest impact way possible - close defeats to the champion, the hottest women's champion the company has ever had for that matter. And she's still over, she still gets a strong reaction, and she's done well spinning off it. It's worked, for me.

    Lacey will still get those chances at the top of the card in the future, and it'll be all the better because she's already performed at that level.

    Honestly, if someone isn't challenging for the title in the women's division, it's rare that WWE pays any mind to them.

    Equally, I'm more confused as to why they've not struck with Sasha having the title yet. I was kind of hoping their duel losses would lead to Boss N Hug reforming as a heel tag team, but that seems unlikely with the heel Kabuki Warriors as champions now. Even if those matches would be dope.

  35. #35
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,163
    Now you are putting words into my mouth.

    I have said that Lacey should have never been put into a main event title feud upon her debut on the main roster because inevitably when she loses the feud the WWE would then have to spend time rebuilding her kayfabe credibility. Why rebuild, when you should always build up.

    Lacey debuted and could have gone into feuds with veterans like she is doing NOW. The WWE is using nattie as they should to build Lacey back up because she LOST and was no where. Lacey is in a better place now because of her feud with Nattie, not because of her feud with Becky. Her little intro segments where she walked out week after week was good, then have some veteran step up and swap victories for a few months, then move on.

    Dana Brooke may have been a bad choice, I agree, but Nattie, Mickie, Asuka, Carmella, Naomi, all former champions would be perfect.

    Wreslting has been around for decades, and only in the past 15 or so years have rookies been thrown into main event title feuds in order to try to get them over and create new mega stars. How many has that worked for? I can't think of many if any at all. But I can think of at least 10-15 stars and hall of Famers that were properly built up through low card, then midcard, and eventual main event feuds, that only breached the main event staus after being build, not rebuilt.
    Last edited by Powder; 10-07-2019 at 10:29 AM.

  36. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    765
    We have an all timer in terms of terrible finishes and yet this thread is just Pen and Powder arguing about Lacey Evans. You love to see it!


  37. #37
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,163
    I think we all agree on the terrible finish and that the WWE really screwed the pooch on that one.



    And I do not think we are arguing about Lacey per-say, but the way that the WWE attempts to build new stars.

  38. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    620
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Why rebuild, when you should always build up.
    Why MUST they build up? Where is that rule written? And where is it is a certainty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Lacey is in a better place now because of her feud with Nattie, not because of her feud with Becky.
    Now you're full of it. If you believe this, you're absolutely wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Wreslting has been around for decades, and only in the past 15 or so years have rookies been thrown into main event title feuds in order to try to get them over and create new mega stars. How many has that worked for? I can't think of many if any at all. But I can think of at least 10-15 stars and hall of Famers that were properly built up through low card, then midcard, and eventual main event feuds, that only breached the main event staus after being build, not rebuilt.
    The Giant/Big Show says hello.
    And again, you're under the assumption that the goal of pushing Lacey was to create a new mega star. Sometimes the goal is to test potential, gauge their future, while putting over others in a big spotlight. Sometimes they just want to tell a story without sacrificing someone who is already established. Not every push has to be through the midcard. It's a great way, no doubt, but it's not the only way. And to claim that any other way is wrong is wrong in itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    We have an all timer in terms of terrible finishes and yet this thread is just Pen and Powder arguing about Lacey Evans. You love to see it!
    It was terrible, we all agreed...and that's it. What else is there to say?

  39. #39
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    2,163
    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    Why MUST they build up? Where is that rule written? And where is it is a certainty?
    It is never a certainty, but it history shows that this procedure works much better. Some of the all time greatest, Macho, Rock, Austin, HHH, Hart, HBK, all say hello.

    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    The Giant/Big Show says hello.
    Great you found one example of where it worked. And he worked mostly because of his size and amazing athleticism and charisma for a man that big. If he was just a big oaf, like El Gigante, he would have floundered and been gone almost immediately.
    Last edited by Powder; 10-07-2019 at 11:00 AM.

  40. #40
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    666
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    How can you DQ someone in a no DQ match?
    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    This was just bad. I usually like finding the silver lining and enjoyable parts to bad shows, or at least comprehending why they go the route they go. But I can't wrap my head around this. If the goal wasn't to pass the title to Bray, then this match just shouldn't have been booked.
    I agree that the finish was really fucking dumb, but I didn't think that the no-contest made it dumb. I thought that the fact the The Fiend no sold everything made it dumb. He popped up after four curbstomps in a row and then popped up after that sledgehammer spot. How is it going to take anything but an atomic bomb to beat him going forward? The whole match, from start to finish, sucked. Which is a shame because the card as a whole had been pretty good (if way too long for so many unannounced matches) up to that point.

    But on the subject of the finish of the match, WWE officially lists it as a match stoppage, not a DQ. I'm not 100% on what that means, but my guess is like a no contest?

    I would present this question to everyone asking about a DQ in a no DQ match:

    The referee clearly told Seth that if he hit Bray with that sledgehammer, he'd throw the match out. The referee is out there to count the three, and historically tried to maintain some level of order and try to stop guys from getting too carried away. So, what is "too far" in a no DQ match to warrant it being thrown out? If Seth had brought a knife to the ring and proceeded it stab Bray, is it all good because it's no DQ? A gun? A chainsaw?

    We've been desensitized by hardcore wrestling to a point (hmm...it's like people predicted that decades ago!) but make no mistake, trying to smash a guy's head in with a sledgehammer is attempted murder over and above a chair or barbed wire or cracker barrel or even the way Triple H uses the hammer. That's horror movie shit.

    So, what's "too far" in a no DQ match.

    In terms of the whole angle, I thought it was pretty shitty. I wasn't rioting over it, but it's also far from the dumbest thing I've ever seen in pro wrestling. I scoffed, said "that was dumb" and went to bed. I am more annoyed with how this positions The Fiend as unkillable. Even when they wanted Kane to be Michael Myers, he never would have gotten up from something like that.

    I was also more annoyed over the fact that the fans ate up Sasha and Becky's garbage terrible match in the opener with spoon. That horse shit got a "this is awesome" chant. No fans. No it was not.

    On another note, I couldn't help but think that The Fiend and all of his stuff looks cool on TV, but how dumb must it look live? Especially that shot at the end. There literally has to be a camera man standing right next to him, waving around like one of Bayley's tube men.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •