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  1. #41
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    What's worse:

    The finish to WrestleMania 9 (Hogan gonna Hogan)
    The finish to SummerSlam 1993 (Flexy Lexy doesn't win the title, celebrates like he has)
    The finish to Starrcade 1997 (WCW dies)
    The finish to SummerSlam 2011 (omg kevin nash wtf thought he was dead lol)
    The finish to Hell in a Cell 2014 (spooky lantern)
    The finish to TLC 2014 (Dean Ambrose doesn't know how electricity works)
    The finish to Royal Rumble 2015 (old guys rule)
    The finish to Hell in a Cell 2018 (Lesnar gonna Lesnar)
    The finish to Hell in a Cell 2019 (naughty Seth)

  2. #42
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Those are some bad endings, but besides Bluetista winning the 2014 Rumble and Reigns winning the 2015, has there been louder boos, and live audience complete disapproval?

  3. #43
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    Some of those are stupid in very different ways. Like, 1997 Starrcade is an epic mess-up and might well have had the biggest consequences (though there's an argument WCW goes away anyway....) but it's more that they messed it up, rather than what they were doing would belong on this list. Similarly, as baffling as the Lex thing is, and it arguably did more damage to an individual asset, I think we're talking orders of magnitude of difference.

    Though when you put it in a list like this it does look like WWE are now good for something like this at least once a year since the start of the decade.....

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  4. #44
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    You said none exist, so I provided one. Now you're making excuses.

    The truth is that there is no right or wrong way to push someone. Some work, and some don't. Lacey is in a very good position thanks to her first push.

    As for rookies, it's an unfair comparison because at no time before NXT has any promotion been able to really develop a complete rookie without it being on TV. So they started in smaller promotions and worked their way to the big leagues. But with so many promotions signing every potential star to solid contracts, WWE is the only promotion is is currently equipped to develop these talents from other walks of life (NJPW have their dojos, but it's not usually for former military MPs transitioning out of that career, and usually for 20-25 year old kids looking to be trained for one purpose only).

    So if you only want to restrict the conversation to pure wrestling rookies, then yes, never before the recent decade can this have been done. But if you're talking promotional rookies, then no, you're flat out wrong. Plenty of promotions brought in new talent, and shoved them into a top spot with the goal to have them lose to the top person. It's wrestling 101: the unknown can be an asset.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    It was terrible, we all agreed...and that's it. What else is there to say?
    I guess how they can salvage/redeem this mess, if it's even possible.

  6. #46
    Rollins takes the most damage from this. Wyatt can do some weird Fun House promo and the marks will be back on board for him. I'd say time for Braun to get the title but we just had that feud.

  7. #47
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    I also can't imagine the red lighting looks good to the live crowd either.

    Don't book the match and do it that way if there's a DQ and I don't really say that because it was a shit match but like they had to know the reaction people would have to that would be awful and they still did it... Not to mention the fact that Seth's run has run its course so even having him drop the title tonight is too late. Also, The Fiend gets right back up and ends Seth when he could have done that all along. Have him no sell one thing and kill Seth...That way you made him look unbeatable but not to a ridiclous level.

  8. #48
    Ppl like the Fiend. In the wrong light the Fiend could become a joke...but all the psychology, all the creativity, the cool entrance, and the guy doing the gimmick causes fans to go along with it.

    The over the top stuff put a dent in his momentum, at least for one night. And the stuff they were doing with Seth, you do that if you're going to do a double turn. Instead, Seth showed he's willing to kill a man to retain the title, but then he's squashed for it.

    What a way to fuck both of them.
    Last edited by Benjamin Button; 1 Week Ago at 02:16 PM.
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  9. #49
    I'm okay with The Fiend no selling everything. He is suppose to be this other entity. I'm also okay with the red hue. Think about it. It's almost like The Fiend "absorbed" traits from those he attacked. The mandible claw from Foley, the red hue from Kane. Though, I guess you could argue he used the mandible claw during his attack on Foley so that would not count.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    What's worse:

    The finish to WrestleMania 9 (Hogan gonna Hogan)
    The finish to SummerSlam 1993 (Flexy Lexy doesn't win the title, celebrates like he has)
    The finish to Starrcade 1997 (WCW dies)
    The finish to SummerSlam 2011 (omg kevin nash wtf thought he was dead lol)
    The finish to Hell in a Cell 2014 (spooky lantern)
    The finish to TLC 2014 (Dean Ambrose doesn't know how electricity works)
    The finish to Royal Rumble 2015 (old guys rule)
    The finish to Hell in a Cell 2018 (Lesnar gonna Lesnar)
    The finish to Hell in a Cell 2019 (naughty Seth)
    Oli you kind of killed my soul in one post lol.



    It's Starrcade 97 though.


  11. #51
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    its Starrcade 97 easily because of the build up to that one match.

    Having said that, I do wonder how many people that last night was the final straw. Don't say its no big deal.. Six months ago I was subscribed to the network. Now i'm not. Barely hanging on. Others are dropping off regularly year to year. TV rights deals and Saudi money are allowing WWE to get away with ridiculously bad booking at the worst times.

    Not saying the sky is falling but there's only so many times you can shovel fans shit and call it ice cream before they realize its shit.

    And WWE's answer to all this is evidenced by what they do. By clinging to the past and throwing old stars on TV and doing resets so to speak every six months. The draft is another one
    Last edited by LK3185; 1 Week Ago at 03:12 PM.

  12. #52
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    The Fingerpoke of Doom and Goldberg-Nash both deserve to be on there. The Sting-Hogan finish was a tragedy (don't get me started on all the things WCW missed out on by screwing it up!) but those two are just as bad.

    I do want to take slight issue on the thought that this only has a heavy effect on Rollins. Short term he definitely is going to take the bulk of the blow. Rollins had already alienated hardcore fans with his weird Twitter issues this past summer (whether you took his side or not in each instance, it can't be denied that his popularity with that base, which used to support him strongly, faded after those incidents) and the booking last night just furthered cemented their resentment towards him. Meanwhile, to non hardcore fans Rollins is the guy who, according to what I've heard, spent three weeks looking scared to death of Bray, then threw everything he had at Bray last night only for Bray to no sell it all, making Rollins look like an absolute geek. As a face he is 100% cooked. I'm not sure a heel turn will salvage him immediately but goodness me it can't be any worse than where he is right now.

    Long term however Bray Wyatt could be in trouble. Pen and I were talking and he did make the great point that, if nothing else, WWE did protect Bray by having him kick out of everything Seth dished out, and he had enough momentum going into this show that I don't believe fans will turn on this gimmick just yet. But we've seen this story from Bray Wyatt and WWE many, MANY times before; he'll start doing interesting things, the fans will get excited and then before you know it the whole thing collapses. Last night may not have been said collapse but WWE has now put themselves in the position where they didn't pull the trigger on Bray, while also making him indestructible, while also having him be unable to continue even when he was apparently able to continue...you get the picture. If this were the first time WWE had squandered promising momentum for Bray I'd say this wasn't that huge of a deal, but because WWE has history disappointing people with his payoffs I think they have to be extremely careful with the follow up. It can be salvaged, but it will take work.

    In the end I think hindsight has shown that the people who were saying it was too soon to do this match were spot on. At the end of the day doing the match now only made sense if WWE was going to put the title on Bray; beyond that there were no good options as Seth winning would've cooled Bray while turning more fans against Seth and a draw/no contest/DQ...well we saw what happened there. Otherwise there was no reason to do this match...and yet WWE did it anyway. Even for them this is stunning, though not quite as stunning as them delivering the one two punch of this and the Kofi squash just two days apart.


  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeLostInRewind View Post
    I'm okay with The Fiend no selling everything. He is suppose to be this other entity. I'm also okay with the red hue. Think about it. It's almost like The Fiend "absorbed" traits from those he attacked. The mandible claw from Foley, the red hue from Kane. Though, I guess you could argue he used the mandible claw during his attack on Foley so that would not count.
    My problem with him no-selling everything is the question of what it means for the next guy Seth beats with one stomp. They're orders of magnitude less than The Fiend? The Fiend isn't an "other entity", at the end of the day he's still a pro wrestler and a human. Goddamn, I don't remember the entire match but Finn was able to at least phase the guy.

    The Fiend is orders of magnitude more powerful than Brock, the guy you've built for nearly a decade now? Who can beat him, and with what? How much of a letdown is it going to be when someone eventually has to pin him down a regular wrestling move?

    On top of that, they've killed Seth's finish. An over finish that beat people and could be done to anyone and it felt like 10 of them couldn't put this guy away. They jobbed him out without taking the belt off of him.

    The Fiend doesn't need the belt. I would argue that The Fiend shouldn't have the belt. This match was a problem from moment one, not just a silly finish.

    Seth needs some serious rehab before he can drop that belt without looking like a completely chump. That or he needs to drop it, go away for a while and come back on a different brand with a new finish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    I'm not sure a heel turn will salvage him immediately but goodness me it can't be any worse than where he is right now.
    Could they get away with a heel turn where he now starts trying to murder people in his title defenses because The Fiend "killed him"?

    Last night may not have been said collapse but WWE has now put themselves in the position where they didn't pull the trigger on Bray, while also making him indestructible, while also having him be unable to continue even when he was apparently able to continue...you get the picture.
    I don't think that the ref stoppage was because he was unable to continue. When Seth brought the hammer in, the ref got between them to stop him, told him that it was way too far, it "wasn't him", etc. and plainly on camera much louder than typical said that if he used that weapon (again, attempted murder far above and beyond typical pro wrestling) he'd throw the match out.

    The problem was Bray laying there like he was dead forever and EMT's flooding in and everything. If they wanted to make him out to be a no sell monster they should have done the same finish, had the announcers explain the referee's reasoning (announce the result to the live crowd!!!) and still have Bray pop up and murder the ref who went in to check on him immediately instead of being dead for five minutes before making a miraculous recovery.

    Can they play this off for Seth as a heel turn? He is keeping his belt no matter what. He heard what the ref said and knew it was his only way out with the Universal Title?

  14. #54
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    What will happen is they will lean into Bray being the one who loses and not the fiend. like something will snap and only way he loses is if Bray takes over. They also made Undertaker more human as it went along... Course they didn't sledgehammer the guy and have him no sell a year into his run lol.

  15. #55
    Didn't the fiend sell towards the end of the match, though? He was prone and knocked out which is why Seth Rollins was able to keep battering him with weapons. This match just made Rollins look like a moron for not covering The Fiend at the end of the match. When Seth hit The Fiend with the sledge hammer, The Fiend was already laid out due to a barrage of chair shots. He was down plenty of time for a 1-2-3.

    Also, remember that it took 4 curb stomps and a pedigree to put Strowman down at the last PPV. Where was the outrage when Strowman kicked out of the first 3 curb stomps?

    As far as The Fiend vs Balor goes, The Fiend hit Balor with his finisher and he didn't kick out. That match was over in 3 minutes. The Fiend hit one of his finishers on Rollins and Rollins did kick out. This match didn't make Roilins look like a jobber. It just made him look like a moron for not getting a pin.

    Also, how are we going to get on The Fiend's case about "no selling" curb stomps when Kane after he debuted typically withstood chair shots, guitar shots etc?
    Last edited by LifeLostInRewind; 1 Week Ago at 03:44 PM.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeLostInRewind View Post
    Didn't the fiend sell towards the end of the match, though? He was prone and knocked out which is why Seth Rollins was able to keep battering him with weapons. This match just made Rollins look like a moron for not covering The Fiend at the end of the match. When Seth hit The Fiend with the sledge hammer, The Fiend was already laid out due to a barrage of chair shots. He was down plenty of time for a 1-2-3.

    Also, remember that it took 4 curb stomps and a pedigree to put Strowman down at the last PPV. Where was the outrage when Strowman kicked out of the first 3 curb stomps?

    As far as The Fiend vs Balor goes, The Fiend hit Balor with his finisher and he didn't kick out. That match was over in 3 minutes. The Fiend hit one of his finishers on Rollins and Rollins did kick out. This match didn't make Roilins look like a jobber. It just made him look like a moron for not getting a pin.

    Also, how are we going to get on The Fiend's case about "no selling" curb stomps when Kane after he debuted typically withstood chair shots, guitar shots etc?
    It was dumb with Braun, too, but at least Seth won out in the end. It wasn't five, six, maybe more in a row plus chairs and a ladder and a toolbox and a sledgehammer only for Braun to literally end the night perfectly fine without a scratch as if he hadn't even been in a match.

    It's the same with when Kane debuted. He'd take a chair shot and shake it off because he was Michael Myers and it was shocking to see. It was the same reaction when The Fiend took that first stomp and stood right back up. The exact same as when Kane would eat a chair and no sell. But Kane wasn't eating five or six of those at once.

    One is shocking. Two is a little odd. Once you're getting up there in numbers even the live crowd doesn't care anymore.

  17. #57
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    Also like what was said, Seth was a moron. The object is to win the match. Not go insane and keep hitting the lifeless corpse that wasn't. So at the point, it should have been obvious that wasn't gonna be good finish.

    Then Fiend gets his heat back after the DQ which makes one think he was faking. Its just all bad and breaks the logic.

  18. #58
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    Didnt I solve this case months ago?

    WWE is run by dummies. Even Iken could book better than them.

  19. #59
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    I just did as a matter of fact! Booked a WCW Mexico show in TEW called Festival de Lucha that ended with me getting an A for a Rey Mysterio Jr.-Juventud Guerrera mask match. Good shit.


  20. #60
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    Well it doesn't matter now who was right about how Lacey Evans was handled. The WWE just killed her stature by having her lose a last Woman Standing match to Nattie. Lacey dominated the entire match, and Nattie hits 2 moves. A snap suplex followed by a power bomb through a table.
    Last edited by Powder; 1 Week Ago at 10:58 PM.

  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Well it doesn't matter now who was right about how Lacey Evans was handled. The WWE just killed her stature by having her lose a last Woman Standing match to Nattie. Lacey dominated the entire match, and Nattie hits 2 moves. A snap suplex followed by a power bomb through a table.
    Yeah, to go back to the discussion yesterday I don't get that, in terms of match structure and result.

    I don't think it's worth jerking your knee all over the place, because Evans' stature isn't dead. But it felt like this was all built to put her over and then they didn't. Unless they're building up Nattie to have another title challenge, why do it? And if they are building up Nattie to have another title challenge, why?

  22. #62
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    i think its possible that Lacey isn't going to be seeing the same type of push anytime soon more than Nattie is going to be in any sort of title picture.. I mean. Lacey has struggled at times and while they might like her, she's already been beaten by Charlotte and Becky.. same as Nattie. The draft with a hard split forces them to use more talent and Nattie can work with younger talent and be a gatekeeper so to speak, and Lacey will get less time in favor of others.

    That's the best i got.

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    The draft with a hard split forces them to use more talent and Nattie can work with younger talent and be a gatekeeper so to speak
    I mean, that's perfectly reasonable, but doesn't that fit the exact description of who Lacey needs a win over to be built up again as a potential challenger? Unless WWE have decided to abandon her for a bit (which would be a shame, as I think she's improved greatly) then I'd have expected them to have Lacey win the feud whether she's going to challenge next week or next year.

  24. #64
    Either Seth and Bray weren't featured last night to "sell" what happened at Hell In a cell (which doesn't make sense in Bray's case considering he appeared rather unscathed) or they didn't feature either in hopes of the fan's outrage would blow over.

  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    I mean, that's perfectly reasonable, but doesn't that fit the exact description of who Lacey needs a win over to be built up again as a potential challenger? Unless WWE have decided to abandon her for a bit (which would be a shame, as I think she's improved greatly) then I'd have expected them to have Lacey win the feud whether she's going to challenge next week or next year.
    I guess but if she's not going to be an upcoming challenger and you don't really have plans for her... maybe she's being written off so to speak... The problem with Lacey winning the feud is she's not going to get a solo feud with either champ at the moment, so unless they wanted to do her vs Alexa in a solo feud, I'm sure who she would be working with. Nattie is the safe choice.

    It just to me smells like Lacey won't be used much for awhile once this draft settles cause even though I say the above, there's ways it can work if Lacey did win.

  26. #66
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    I don't think they put Lacey in this feud to win, I think they did it to have Nattie work with her for a while, to work out some issues/polish her wrestling some. Nattie has been training the girls on the main roster for years now. It makes sense for them not to give her the win, as has been stated, she can't really go into a program with either Champ. I think they just wanted to keep her learning, and now will probably build her up against lower opponents until she is ready to go to the top again.
    Last edited by Kleckamania; 1 Week Ago at 07:31 AM.


  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    I just did as a matter of fact! Booked a WCW Mexico show in TEW called Festival de Lucha that ended with me getting an A for a Rey Mysterio Jr.-Juventud Guerrera mask match. Good shit.
    Where is my retweet option for this?

  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    I guess but if she's not going to be an upcoming challenger and you don't really have plans for her... maybe she's being written off so to speak... The problem with Lacey winning the feud is she's not going to get a solo feud with either champ at the moment, so unless they wanted to do her vs Alexa in a solo feud, I'm sure who she would be working with. Nattie is the safe choice.

    It just to me smells like Lacey won't be used much for awhile once this draft settles cause even though I say the above, there's ways it can work if Lacey did win.
    Lacey is a great talent, but she needs a developmental territory (haha!).

    She's got the look and the athleticism, she's a pretty good worker, and she has charisma and ability to cut a promo. She lives her gimmick as much as possible.

    However, she's on a roster with Charlotte, Becky, Bayley, Asuka and Alexa. All talents that are more polished and more ready for prime time than Lacey is.

    But, if you put her on NXT, are you going to put her over Shayna?

    She's just in an awkward place. She proved that she can hang with Becky and Charlotte on top, so now a rebuilding phase while they hopefully figure out where her place going forward is, is probably what she needs.

  29. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    Lacey is a great talent, but she needs a developmental territory (haha!).

    She's got the look and the athleticism, she's a pretty good worker, and she has charisma and ability to cut a promo. She lives her gimmick as much as possible.

    However, she's on a roster with Charlotte, Becky, Bayley, Asuka and Alexa. All talents that are more polished and more ready for prime time than Lacey is.

    But, if you put her on NXT, are you going to put her over Shayna?

    She's just in an awkward place. She proved that she can hang with Becky and Charlotte on top, so now a rebuilding phase while they hopefully figure out where her place going forward is, is probably what she needs.
    They can put her over Charlotte for the smackdown womens title if they draft her to smackdown and book her properly. I feel like Dakota Kai will be the one to go over Bazler for the NXT title.

  30. #70
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    Lacey was always a bit of a rushed NXT call up (not unlike the others that were part of that Dec 2018 group - EC3 and Heavy Machinery, for example), which feed into that lack of development/developmental time spent and why she's unpolished in the ring.

    Would a Smackdown move help? I honestly don't know, but I doubt it can hurt and would allow for a soft reboot of her and let them do that development.

    I would certainly be in favour of putting her over Charlotte, but given the reporting that Vince wants to have Brock, Seth, Becky, and Charlotte as the top champions I can't see there being much movement on those top titles for a couple of months.

  31. #71
    In that case, she could be pushed to the tag title scene. However, who would you have as her partner?

  32. #72
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    Dana Brooke.

  33. #73
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    Not a bad choice. I happen to think Dana is a lot better than some perhaps give her credit for.

    Frustratingly, I'd have actually gone for Natalya prior to this feud.

  34. #74
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    What about the rumored repackaged Liv Morgan?

    Or a floundering Ember Moon?

    Or wait for it...when Nia returns in early 2020m pair them up. Lacey is the mouthpiece of the pair, and Nia is the muscle.

  35. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Or wait for it...when Nia returns in early 2020m pair them up. Lacey is the mouthpiece of the pair, and Nia is the muscle.
    Actually was thinking that.

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