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Thread: AEW Dynamite

  1. #1
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    AEW Dynamite

    Announced for the debut on Oct 2nd:

    Cody Rhodes vs. Sammy Guevara
    AEW Women's Championship -- Nyla Rose vs. Riho
    Kenny Omega & The Young Bucks vs. Chris Jericho & two mystery partners
    Adam "Hangman" Page vs. PAC
    MJF vs. Brandon Cutler
    plus Jon Moxley Live appearance


    Of that list, I think Page vs PAC is the match I'm most curious about. None of them have enough story going on for me to dive into, but where Page and PAC go from their matches at All Out is interesting. It's hard not to picture Page not becoming the top homegrown talent of the promotion, much like AJ Styles was for TNA back in 2002.

    I also think MJF will be a HUGE star with his mic skills and charisma. So that match has my interest as well, though I know next to nothing about Brandon Cutler.

    I still hope for more "Road To" type segments for the Dynamite. Not a lot of attention has been spent on the rest of the women's roster, so seeing a title defense on the Oct 16th show will need some sort of pump for whoever becomes the top contender. Unless it's a rematch, I guess, but all AEW hype has indicated not being into too many rematches. I'm guessing the Oct 9th episode will have a way to determine the number 1 contenders for each title for the defenses on Oct 16th, but there should be some way to set that up on the debut.


    With title defenses booked on Oct 16th, I am disappointed with the apparent usage of the top names. One thing I was selfishly REALLY hoping AEW to do was showcase a weekly program where they didn't over use the top talent. I really hate the current expectation of weekly matches for the top champion of a brand, and monthly title defenses. AEW has set themselves up in a way where I think they could accomplish this. Now, I understand with the NXT push, I get why AEW doesn't want to take chances on losing viewership to the other program at the same time. And thankfully, it looks like they are balancing out the rest of the roster enough that it'll likely work out. But I hope whatever method they take going forward, they are able to have a different main event weekly. I was doing my best not to bring WWE comparisons into this, but I think the proper way for a promotion to succeed long term with their TV/PPV balance is to have less main event champions matches on TV, and more on PPV. I think back to my childhood, and I can't remember ever seeing Hulk Hogan wrestle. I know it had to happen, but those shows usually had Hogan in a recap, or a promo, or with Brother Love. But he would rarely wrestle, and it made matches like teaming with Savage vs the Mega Bucks a bigger deal. This meant that the TV main event was usually a midcard match. Obviously we won't be returning to that exact style any time soon, but I see no reason why 2-3 months down the line, the AEW champion would only have interviews, or be in tag matches (like in NJPW) and save the singles and title matches for PPV and very special events. TV main events would be for establishing new contenders, or for the tag titles...etc.

    I also want to see more of the win/loss record stuff mattering. I can't get into NJPW, but I appreciate how the title reigns aren't just measured in days, but in defenses. I don't know if this will translate to a wider audience, but I hope AEW really puts a focus on that to test it out.

    I've already warned my S/O that this week will involve me being very involved with all the wrestling we are getting, so while I doubt I'll watch this live, I'm sure I'll have watched it by the time I go to bed Wednesday night. And if it does reach the hype, it's entirely possible that this becomes my Wednesday night viewing every week. I've personally been hard on AEW for missing the mark too many times in the last year, but I've always said that I'll save final judgment for the TV show. It's really unfair to judge the entire promotion based on less than a handful of events and youtube clips. But this week, Dynamite really gives us our first real look into what AEW will be about.
    Here's hoping they are starting something that will last a while.

  2. #2
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    I'm feeling excited for this! Definitely going to be a big night. My only concern is how to watch, since my cable isn't hooked up. Still haven't figured that one out. I heard other TNT usually has their stuff on Hulu so maybe that'll be my avenue, I'd sure love to watch the first episode live though.

    I don't think I agree that Page has the potential to stand out the way AJ Styles did in his early career. The benefit AJ had was not only was he pushing the boundaries of a new style, he was also able to execute that style of jaw dropping athletics better than virtually anyone at the time or since. Page is alright but I don't think he has that same appeal, plus he's already got a bit of pushback after getting put in the first title match without a lot of heat behind him (though losing that match might have actually helped him in that regard).

    Definitely want more "Road To" style stuff on the show itself. A good number of fans will probably be watching for the first time, and characters are going to be at least as important as matches if not more so.

    The Hogan comparison is interesting. As I'm sure you know, Hogan of course was wrestling constantly, but only on live events since that was where they drew the majority of their money at the time. So I don't know if it can work the same way in 2019, when TV is kind. BUT I do agree with the premise, if they can find a way to keep their top guys fresh by not featuring them wrestling 52 weeks a year, it'll be a benefit for su all.

    I think they've quietly done a good job of making wins and losses matter but they could do a better job of articulating it (example: Sammy Guevara is coming off a win in a six man tag, so it makes sense he gets a shot at #1 contender Cody rather than somebody on a losing streak). I also like the title reign measured by defenses thing.

    The TV product is definitely going to tell us a lot. Unless they shit the bed I'll probably be a weekly viewer as long as I can swing it, but if they can really come out swinging they could potentially build their following a lot in short order. Curious what surprises will be on the first show too, between Jericho's mystery partners and some hints about a "Lex Luger" moment, we could get some super exciting stuff out of the gate.

  3. #3
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    So... I guess there was a no DQ stipulation in that trios main event?

    Solid, but unspectacular show. Best match was once again Cody's

  4. #4
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    BZZZZZ! WRONG! Sorry, had to do it.

    Just got back from the show. Amazing live experience, easily the best show I've ever been to, beating out the AAA show in New York show I saw a few weeks ago. As the party I was with was in a luxury suite we got to have the show broadcast on TV but I barely heard any of the commentary and didn't see any of the production (I heard it was good but I'll see for myself tomorrow). The low points were MJF vs. Brandon Cutler, where Cutler unfortunately had one of the worst performances of his career, the weird Jay and Silent Bob segment and the crowd being burnt out for the final two dark matches (SCU vs. Jurassic Express, Bea Priestley/Penelope Ford vs. Allie/Britt Baker). Beyond that it was money. The opening dark match between Darby Allin and CIMA (!) was really good with Allin winning. Cody/Guevera was off the charts and the follow up Jericho angle was well done. Hangman vs. Pac was really good, although Hangman Page is definitely having trouble connecting with fans (he got respectful cheers but he was easily the least over "big name" on the show). The main event was really fun, the Moxley angle was awesome (for those wondering why no DQ, referees in AEW have discretion on whether to call for DQ's or not; this occurred at Fight for the Fallen as well when Christopher Daniels and Marko Stunt interfered in matches) and the post match angle was so electric that it got a standing ovation after it went off air. I know the Jake Hager/Jake Strong/Jack Swagger appearance will be controversial but he came off like a mega star to the audience, and as a heater for Jericho and this new group (and this was definitely set up as Guevara/Jericho/LAX/Swagger being a unit) he fits well. The first post show dark match, Angelico/Jack Evans/Lucha Brothers vs. Best Friends/Private Party (with an Orange Cassidy appearance) was also really good and it allowed me to see four of my favorites team up.

    The highlight though, by a vast margin for me, was Nyla Rose vs. Riho. This match was unbelievable; I was nervous about it going in because the AEW Women's Division has struggled to get over but by the mid point of this match those two got the entire building and never let us go. There were two near falls in particular that were so close that on one of them I legit thought the match was over and began marking out for Riho, only to then realize Nyla had kicked out. And I wasn't the only one. There was a sloppy moment or two, one in particular when Riho tried to backdrop Nyla but they played it off well (Riho would have trouble doing that) and you can have slight issues like that in matches when a) the match as a whole is so strong and b) the crowd is so into it. This was the best match on the show, a star making performance for both Riho and Nyla Rose and exactly what the AEW Women's Division needed. There were a lot of things this show did right from a live audience perspective but that and elevating Guevara, who between his performance and the main event angle came off looking like a real player, were the two things AEW nailed.


  5. #5
    Mostly, the show looked good from the hi-lights...hearing tony/Ross together would be good enough for me. i liked the brawl with Mox and Omega but that should be a dq for sure. Really undermines all the good work they've done with refs to have this guy let the match go.

    Swagger is always an underwhelming surprise.

    Glad Riho won.
    Last edited by Benjamin Button; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:29 AM.
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  6. #6
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    I am re-posting this here, as this was my reply to Pen in the NXT thread on why the AEW show was better than NXT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Really? I felt the opposite. Yes the AEW show wasn't as polished, but it was show #1. But it felt distinctly non-WWE, and fresh.

    Dynamite had many things that were brought back to wrestling:
    • Separate entrances for heels/faces
    • Time limits on matches
    • Match will end with TV time left - JR even commented on this
    • Announcers calling moves and the match - not just pandering
    • Talking about how the referees had control of the match
    • Wins and losses matter, with records shown on name graphics - the announcers talked about this nonstop
    • Post match interviews
    • TV-14. It makes a difference, there was only one time I can think of that this came into play, when Tony called MJF a prick, and JR said TV-14.


    I am sure that others will find more things, but these are just some that made AEW feel much different.

  7. #7
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    Powder, if all those things are what make a better show for you, then we'll never agree on what was good or not. To me, some of those factors can be used to put on a better show when used right. But most of those things weren't a factor last night.

    Separate entrances don't matter in the slightest.
    Time limits and TV time remaining are non factors, and they've already established time limits with Cody VS Darby. I'm a fan of it for sure, but I can't see why that made AEW better last night if none of the matches took advantage of it.
    Announcers call moves in NXT. Always have. If you're comparing AEW to Raw, then you'd be onto something. But not when comparing to NXT.
    Referees control is a nice announcer addition, but doesn't charge the quality of the match or show.
    Post match interviews happen in WWE quite often.
    Does Tony calling MJF a Prick really make it a better show? I caught it, but it felt forced. Almost like he was told to say that to purposely show off the TV14.

    I think a better example of that was the Moxley and Omega break, with the glass table spot. That's something NXT or WWE would not do due to pressure to be family friendly. That moment was one thing AEW definitely stood out with, and it fit. As a fan who's been watching for over 30 years, it wasn't special overall, but it was a really smart move to highlight what AEW will get away with, but WWE won't even try.

    But, that doesn't make it a better show. I don't care that the crowd was bigger than NXT. I don't care about most of what you pointed out,or they weren't better than NXT.

    As for Cult, I love you buddy, but I would never expect you to give a fair chance to anything WWE, and I know you didn't watch NXT. So I'm ok if you think I'm wrong. That said, I never ever used that for someone's opinion, only when someone used incorrect facts to base their opinion.

    I feel a lot more fair minded than you and powder. I was looking forward to NXT, and I never hid that. But I don't understand the mentality of watching something with the purpose of not liking it the way many do. There was a lot of good stuff on Dynamite, but the flaws were big and obvious.

    I've been waiting for the tv show to use their solid storytelling from the Road to shows. The only match that got this treatment was Cody VS Sammy. A match that didn't have a deep story in the first place. There was no history there. But, had they had that for Jericho VS Omega, or Bucks VS LAX, or the women's title match... It would have been better. To me it looked like the main event was rushed, and that's why they didn't get any prematch treatment of that level. I know they recapped the debut of LAX, but it would have helped to try to find out why they attacked the Bucks.

    I also didn't like how they didn't try to connect to next week's show, other than the tag title tournament. I understand that's a huge aspect, but there are title matches in 2 weeks, and no contenders. They've had 4 women on tv, including Brandi as a valet, and Britt doing a weak job at the booth (very few wrestlers are good at the booth, so this isn't a knock, more about how it didn't make me care for her more than a promo or vignette would).

    The women's title match was better than expected, but the tv showed more flaws than was likely caught live. It had some rough patches.

    The trios main being cut short was a good thing for my tastes, because it cut down on Bucks nonsense. There was still too much choreography, but it was vastly reduced, and they had to sell for once since they were down a partner.

    AEW dynamite was a very good tv wrestling show. On par with an above average WWE raw, but tighter at 2 hours. I felt like it was missing something, but I never felt like they were wasting time, and nothing dragged (though I didn't like the tag team confrontation, at least I understand the importance of it).

    But none of the matches were great or stood out. NXT had 3 matches better than anything on dynamite, and the others were on the same level. So, I give the NXT the better show. I'm also judging without including the surprises, because those aren't fair. AEW doesn't have access to the WWE roster, so Hager isn't as big a deal as Finn or Ciampa. But I also know these surprises aren't weekly occurrences, so aren't fair to really judge a programs worth. So, keeping in mind what each show can do regularly, NXT delivered an 8/10, while dynamite was 6.5 ish. Better than most WWE TV, but NXT had always been an exception.
    Last edited by PEN15v2; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:51 AM.

  8. #8
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    I haven't seen the show, but I don't think you necessarily need to use time limits, referee control, and some of those things that Powder was mentioning in order for them to benefit a show. I've long felt that creating an atmosphere in which those things are factors, expected, and could play a role, is actually more important in whether or not you use them on a particular show.

    Now, with that said - those things only go so far. They do improve a show, but they don't make up for any major drawbacks elsewhere. And not having seen it, I don't *actually* have an opinion on where AEW would sit in all this, or NXT for that matter.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  9. #9
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    I havent watched NXT yet. I will today. I was up at 8pm, so I chose to watch AEW knowing now that I can still watch NXT episodes on the network whenever I want.


    My impressions were that Hangman Page vs Pac was the match of the night. Followed up by Cody's match (Sammy is pretty polished! Impressed by him in ring). I was impressed with Page, and can see him being a World Champ with a little polish. Pac seems to be wrestling smarter now (somewhat safer moveset), which is good, cause the moveset he ran in WWE created a lot of timing issues. He should hover around title scenes nicely in AEW.

    I was very much disappointed by MJF. I heard he was a good talker, but part of being a good talker is knowing when to stop, his promo as he walked down to the ring was waaaaay too long. He was just saying the same thing over and over again. Honestly off my first impression he came off as a poor man's ECIII- nowhere near as good as the real thing. Both he and his opponent were sloppy in their match.

    My least favorite match of the night was honestly the women's match. I'm sorry, there is just zero suspension of disbelief in Riho. She's about 90 lbs soaking wet. Watching Nyla put in that much effort to sell Riho's offense killed the match for me (multiple times you could easily see Nyla jumping in spots where Riho was "lifting her"). At least when Little Spike used to do his thing ECW kept it realistic. Riho is just too small to make me believe her offense is a genuine threat honestly. The outcome seemed silly to me.

    The closing match was fun, though for a company that prides itself in wins and losses, rankings, etc, it seems absurd that there was no DQ there. Refs enforce the rules everytime in pro sports.

    The Jack Swagger reveal was a bit of a let down. Seems like maybe that spot was intended for someone else, but maybe that person signed with Fox to do Smackdown's announcing? The Young Bucks were the highlight of the main event for me. They did great.

    It was cool seeing Tony Schiavone doing the announcing. I was a bit stunned to see him look younger than he did in WCW decades ago. Their announcing team is infinitely better than any group WWE has on any brand. They added to the product instead of detracting from it (though I still think Nigel Mcguiness and Corey Graves are gems- they are just surrounded by duds).

    The production was solid. Camera work was great. Overall a good show, but I expected a bit more from a premiere. Only 2 bad matches though. I am very much looking forward to that tag tournament however. I'm guessing their 2nd show will be much better.

    My first impression is that AEW needs to step their game up if they plan on competing with NXT.


  10. #10
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    I am not knocking NXT, as it was my third time actually watching the show. I thought that it was good, but I thought that AEW was better. The Women in NXT, outside of Baszler are who??? Exactly. No one. Now they can and will be stars, but currently they are not anyone of recognition. The Women's match last night was 2 of the 4 from last week's fatal 4 way. Why not highlight other women?

    Riddle vs Cole was good, but nothing to write home about. The Baszler match was solid and enjoyable.

    But as I said, the NXT show, felt exactly like a typical WWE show. If they want to be different, then be different. Do not give us the same stuff the "main roster" does. With Balor returning, I hope there are more people who go back or debut after the draft, but keep the main stars on NXT.

    Also Velveteen Dream? I turned him off. Awful. He may be a good in ring performer, I don't know, but his character is awful.

    Again, I liked the show overall, but I felt that AEW was bringing back actual Professional Wrestling and some less Sports Entertainment. The time limits, the refs, wins and losses, etc are all part of the history of ProWrestling and not sports entertainment. When the announcers kept saying that if Cody loses, it could cost him his title shot, that mans something. How many times in WWE do we see champions lose matches, or #1 contenders lose and they just get their shot anyway? Little things like that will make the overall product better. The beauty is in the details.

    NXT was good, but a WWE product, which is what we all have complained about for years on these forums, and AEW was something different, and it won the night. it may not always, but last night it did.

  11. #11
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    I thought...to be honest I thought it was pretty average.

    The Cody match was a Cody match - he's still a decidedly average wrestler. Sammy popped it a couple of times, a far more interesting performer, but it was tied down by Cody being Cody.

    MJF vs Cutler doesn't even merit talking about. A nothing match.

    PAC vs Page was overly reliant on PAC being a superhuman flying machine to hold my interest. I checked out after the springboard 450 about 5 minutes in, they'd already done too much and I just didn't have interest in watching more of it. And you know, I'm not 'No Flips Just Fists' or whatever, but at least build to these things. It felt like they'd gone out there to have a 20 minute match in 13 minutes so cut the build up parts.

    Riho vs Nyla was the only match that will get the official Oliver 'Dope' rating on the night, I thought that was the only bout on the card that really told a story that was easy and accessible, simple to follow, and built through the course of the 15 minute run time into having a satisfying pay off.

    The main event tag was fun but nothingy, and clearly just a part of the bigger story(ies) they are telling - nothing is less interesting to me than the Young Bucks phoning it in, and I felt they did that a little here, but it was the second best match of the night.

    I mean, it was fine, I'll watch next week, but it wasn't demonstrably amazing or anything. But it's a new promotion finding it's feet - people will give it leeway as a result, and rightly so. I personally think they need to make some major strides on how they use wrestling on the show, and how they approach wrestling on the show, in order to have a show that gels together comfortably for the viewer. It'll probably come with time.

    It's not about whether it was 'worse' or 'better' than NXT - it's just a case of whether it was a good show, that I as a wrestling fan could enjoy. For me, it wasn't a good one, but neither was it bad. They just need to get comfortable with the format of a weekly TV show.
    Last edited by Oliver; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:52 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    I am not knocking NXT, as it was my third time actually watching the show. I thought that it was good, but I thought that AEW was better. The Women in NXT, outside of Baszler are who??? Exactly. No one. Now they can and will be stars, but currently they are not anyone of recognition. The Women's match last night was 2 of the 4 from last week's fatal 4 way. Why not highlight other women?
    Riddle vs Cole was good, but nothing to write home about. The Baszler match was solid and enjoyable.
    But as I said, the NXT show, felt exactly like a typical WWE show. If they want to be different, then be different. Do not give us the same stuff the "main roster" does. With Balor returning, I hope there are more people who go back or debut after the draft, but keep the main stars on NXT.
    Also Velveteen Dream? I turned him off. Awful. He may be a good in ring performer, I don't know, but his character is awful.
    Again, I liked the show overall, but I felt that AEW was bringing back actual Professional Wrestling and some less Sports Entertainment. The time limits, the refs, wins and losses, etc are all part of the history of ProWrestling and not sports entertainment. When the announcers kept saying that if Cody loses, it could cost him his title shot, that mans something. How many times in WWE do we see champions lose matches, or #1 contenders lose and they just get their shot anyway? Little things like that will make the overall product better. The beauty is in the details.
    NXT was good, but a WWE product, which is what we all have complained about for years on these forums, and AEW was something different, and it won the night. it may not always, but last night it did.
    Your ignorance of the women in NXT notwithstanding, we actually got to see more women wrestle on NXT last night than AEW showed. So that’s a terrible argument. And if NXT had a title match booked in 2 weeks, then they set up the challenger on this show with Io getting the victory. So if you’re judging based on how the women are used, NXT wins.

    Agreed on Riddle vs Cole being good. I thought it was amazing under the “no-selling” part, and it dropped to somewhere between good and great, but I’ll acquiesce to saying it was only good. Same with Bayzler.

    Velveteen Dream had a pretty bad segment. I love the character, but last night was not the best usage of it, so I understand you not enjoying it.

    I don’t know how you can’t see the difference between NXT and Raw/SD, but if you feel it was the same, I can’t say anything to change your mind. Just keep in mind that your opinion on that is not widely shared. This doesn’t mean you’re wrong, but there are many anti-WWE wrestling fans who enjoy NXT because of how different it is. I like all WWE programming, but I feel NXT is superior in many ways due to how it is different. If you don’t see it, then you don’t see it. Nothing right or wrong about it, but it’s a minority opinion.

    Where you are wrong about the facts is that NXT does use a lot of those staples you mentioned. The refs do get involved and commentary highlights their strengths. You talked about how in WWE you’re used to seeing champions lose or contenders lose, and still get their shots. Well, that wasn’t on NXT at all. Everyone who got a title shot earned it. You’re holding Raw and SD against NXT, which to each their own, but those things you praise about AEW are in NXT. You’re just choosing to ignore it to make your opinion seemed factually based. It’s not. You can prefer AEW, no one should ever fault you for that. But don’t make up reasons for it that are blatant and pathetic lies. NXT is the wrestling show, while Raw+SD are the sports entertainment shows. It doesn’t mean Raw/SD don’t have wrestling, and NXT doesn’t have Sports Entertainment, but they have different main focuses.

    As for AEW winning over NXT, I visit 2 other sites, including one who involved with AEW sponsorship in some way (either they sponsor AEW, or AEW sponsors their podcast, I don’t know all the details – but they are involved with each other). And all other sites have fans picking sides, but it’s soundly NXT had the better night. This doesn’t mean AEW sucked, or that many people thought Dynamtie was awful. In fact, it’s been getting great reviews. Just that NXT was a step above. I think everyone overrates everything. I said NXT was an 8, but I’m judging based on wrestling TV, not a PPV. NXT did a better job with matches, hyping the coming weeks, establishing rivalries…etc. AEW did an above average job, which is what I would rate 5, so 6.5 for Dynamite I feel works. I didn’t think they did enough to make me care for next week, and I didn’t think the matches were as good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kleckamania View Post
    I was very much disappointed by MJF. I heard he was a good talker, but part of being a good talker is knowing when to stop, his promo as he walked down to the ring was waaaaay too long. He was just saying the same thing over and over again. Honestly off my first impression he came off as a poor man's ECIII- nowhere near as good as the real thing. Both he and his opponent were sloppy in their match.
    My least favorite match of the night was honestly the women's match. I'm sorry, there is just zero suspension of disbelief in Riho. She's about 90 lbs soaking wet. Watching Nyla put in that much effort to sell Riho's offense killed the match for me (multiple times you could easily see Nyla jumping in spots where Riho was "lifting her"). At least when Little Spike used to do his thing ECW kept it realistic. Riho is just too small to make me believe her offense is a genuine threat honestly. The outcome seemed silly to me.
    The closing match was fun, though for a company that prides itself in wins and losses, rankings, etc, it seems absurd that there was no DQ there. Refs enforce the rules everytime in pro sports.
    The Jack Swagger reveal was a bit of a let down. Seems like maybe that spot was intended for someone else, but maybe that person signed with Fox to do Smackdown's announcing? The Young Bucks were the highlight of the main event for me. They did great.
    It was cool seeing Tony Schiavone doing the announcing. I was a bit stunned to see him look younger than he did in WCW decades ago. Their announcing team is infinitely better than any group WWE has on any brand. They added to the product instead of detracting from it (though I still think Nigel Mcguiness and Corey Graves are gems- they are just surrounded by duds).
    The production was solid. Camera work was great. Overall a good show, but I expected a bit more from a premiere. Only 2 bad matches though. I am very much looking forward to that tag tournament however. I'm guessing their 2nd show will be much better.
    My first impression is that AEW needs to step their game up if they plan on competing with NXT.
    I liked the MJF thing, but like a lot of AEW production, they’ll learn what to tighten up and shorten as they go. I think what hurts MJF is how they compare him to the Miz or the Rock, or whoever. He’s only 23 (I think) so he’s nowhere near as polished as they are, but he shows such natural comfort on the mic that you can how he can become like those guys in time. But no, he didn’t show it last night. That said, it was way better than 75% of solo mic promos.

    Good point on the women’s title match. The one spot I noticed was the top turnbuckle counter into a slam by Riho. It was all Nyla just throwing herself and bumping. That instance I noticed and it bugged me. But I wasn’t as bothered as you overall. Your comparison to Spike Dudley is apt though, as he would have moments like that, but never won a title over a hoss. In fact, I think he’s got a terrible win/loss record outside of the tag and cruiserweight divisions in ECW and WWE. That said, Riho is about 1000 times better than Spike in the ring, and she brings more to the table than he ever did in terms of being competitive with a larger opponent like Nyla.

    1000% agreed on the no DQ in the main event. I forgive these things in WWE, so I’ll forgive it here too. BUT, to all the fans who complain that there’s no consistency in WWE’s rules (looking at you, Powder), then this is a huge flaw. The main event of your debut show, when you’ve been pushing how sports oriented you will be compared to WWE… and then you have that!?!? The hypocrisy is palpable. But AEW fans will find an excuse and defend it. It is especially odd since it happened so early in the match that they could have arranged it without it being a broken logic rule. Have the 2 teams brawl before the bell, and then when Kenny is getting ready to fly (again, before the bell) that’s when Moxley could strike. It then leads to Bucks accepting to change it to a handicap match, and do the exact same thing. If AEW want to stay away from handicap matches as they defy logic, I understand and agree. But in that case you can’t have an attack midmatch and it not end in a DQ. It’s a catch 22.

    I don’t think it’s fair to judge the Jake Hager surprise. All the promotions are locking up their talent, so it’s REALLY tough to have a surprise like Luger in 95. And it sounds like Punk just doesn’t want to wrestle. So Hager is still a great get for AEW, as he adds something that the whole promotion is lacking: size and legitimacy. I don’t mean he’s known or a star. But his MMA association, and his true amateur wrestling background, is a major asset to a promotion who is pushing sports credibility above other promotions. And he is literally head and shoulders above most of the roster. Solid choice by AEW.

    Other than Jim Ross and Alex Marvez, AEW have a fantastic announce crew. Ross still adds something, so I’m not saying he shouldn’t be in the booth, but maybe not as the lead announcer. And Marvez has been moved out of that role, so I don’t think that’s a concern. But I love Excalibur and Tony. Tony needs to work out some “ringrust” it seems, and get caught into the weekly schedule, but he’s obviously better than Michael Cole, Tom Phillips, or Vic Joseph. I like Mauro better still, but I am bothered by his pop culture stuff. But as a pure wrestling announcer, he’s the best in terms of calling moves and showing emotion. He also directs traffic amazingly for Nigel and Beth. They wouldn’t be as good without him. They are very good, obviously, but most of what stands out for them is how they bounce off what Mauro is doing. Maybe it’s the broadcaster background in me, but his skills are beyond reproach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    I haven't seen the show, but I don't think you necessarily need to use time limits, referee control, and some of those things that Powder was mentioning in order for them to benefit a show. I've long felt that creating an atmosphere in which those things are factors, expected, and could play a role, is actually more important in whether or not you use them on a particular show.

    Now, with that said - those things only go so far. They do improve a show, but they don't make up for any major drawbacks elsewhere. And not having seen it, I don't *actually* have an opinion on where AEW would sit in all this, or NXT for that matter.
    That’s what I meant about how they can be a factor, but they weren’t last night. I think if we see over time that they can be factors, it’ll mean more on the nights they aren’t involved. But just saying “referee is losing or gaining control” when you haven’t set a standard of what that ref control should be, then it’s just a non-factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    I mean, it was fine, I'll watch next week, but it wasn't demonstrably amazing or anything. But it's a new promotion finding it's feet - people will give it leeway as a result, and rightly so. I personally think they need to make some major strides on how they use wrestling on the show, and how they approach wrestling on the show, in order to have a show that gels together comfortably for the viewer. It'll probably come with time.
    It's not about whether it was 'worse' or 'better' than NXT - it's just a case of whether it was a good show, that I as a wrestling fan could enjoy. For me, it wasn't a good one, but neither was it bad. They just need to get comfortable with the format of a weekly TV show.
    I think this is the best explanation for it so far. I love this statement.
    Last edited by PEN15v2; 2 Weeks Ago at 10:56 AM.

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    Of all the wrestling on last night, all I've seen is the first hour of Dynamite. I think that it's okay.

    I like Cody, but I thought that going what felt like 15 minutes with Sammy Guevara and having him win with a counter is maybe not the best way to get over your number one contender. Nothing against Guevara but he's not a top guy. Maybe they want him to be, maybe he will be, but as of this moment he's not. He needs some definitive wins. It's the same argument people made about Page vs Sabien at Fight for the Fallen, but I felt that Page looked more dominant in that match and Sabien only got the advantage when Page was selling a knee injury.

    I appreciate that wins and losses matter, and maybe it's something that'll be explored later, but at no point did I feel that one of their three name value stars who has been announced in the main event of their next Pay Per View was in any danger of losing that match and thus his title shot. Sammy needs bigger trunks.

    It felt a little disjointed at times. I also couldn't figure out why they were running a major angle with no commentary in a picture-in-picture commercial. The commercials were distracting from what was happening as Jericho went after Cody, and the fact that US commercial breaks are so damn long meant that Jericho had to beat the shit out of Cody for what felt like an eternity. That was confusing to me.

    The show kind of felt like TNA. Not current day Impact, but TNA. Maybe Nitro? Not in a bad way or meant as an insult, but the production and the way things just kind of went from one thing to the next. It didn't feel like it had the polish of a WWE (not necessarily a bad thing) or even New Japan.

    From what I've seen it wasn't bad. It wasn't offensive. It didn't make me shake my head or want to turn it off. Maybe the second hour really picks up?

    From what I've heard of the main with what should have been a DQ but wasn't, I remember JR mentioning earlier in the night that you weren't going to see cheap, cop out DQ's "because wins and losses matter". Maybe AEW is running relaxed, or no disqualification rules?

    I dunno. I'll finish the show, I'll probably check it out next week, too.

    I'm really not a fan of the interviews on the ramp. I completely get that especially with your first show you want to get those people in front of the audience that paid to be there, and maybe in-ring interviews or promos feel too "WWE" to them. But even Nitro had Gene interview people in the ring where they're centred in the building and the most of the live crowd has the best view. But my problem is that the interviews on the ramp feel cheap. You don't have a billion dollar LED wall set that you're trying to showcase like WWE and you can transform into the "Moment of Bliss" set graphically, so being on the ramp in between the two tunnels feels, to me, like an indy that doesn't have (or can't afford) a backstage set to do interviews in front of.

    Again, I know that's not the case, and I know why they'd want to get people in front of the paying audience, but it just feels kind of bush league to be doing interviews on the stage.

    On a plus, though, I did appreciate the UFC-style camera in the locker room where they cut to the audio for a moment or two.

    EDIT: As far as a promotion with a "sports presentation" is concerned, my preference is still New Japan. I'd love to see an American promotion steal from them a little.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    I'm really not a fan of the interviews on the ramp. I completely get that especially with your first show you want to get those people in front of the audience that paid to be there, and maybe in-ring interviews or promos feel too "WWE" to them. But even Nitro had Gene interview people in the ring where they're centred in the building and the most of the live crowd has the best view. But my problem is that the interviews on the ramp feel cheap. You don't have a billion dollar LED wall set that you're trying to showcase like WWE and you can transform into the "Moment of Bliss" set graphically, so being on the ramp in between the two tunnels feels, to me, like an indy that doesn't have (or can't afford) a backstage set to do interviews in front of.
    I remember Gene shilling his 1-900 number on the stage/ramp, and then calling out whoever he was interviewing right then and there. I remember more of those than I do interviews in the ring. No special entrance graphics either. So I really can't agree with this complaint.

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    I think the one thing I really, really love from NJPW and would like to see them do more in the US promotions is the post-match 'press conference' style interviews. I don't know if that's weird, but I really enjoy them.

    Agreed on the TNA/Nitro thing, Coach - now that you mention it I can see it in the show and how it was. I always picture Mean Gene doing those ramp interviews on Nitro, too.

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    Maybe it was later Nitro? All of the important interviews with important people I can recall -- with Flair, Hogan, etc. -- were in the ring, "on the stage", in front of the people.

    It just feels bush league to me. Like an indy without an interview set. However, I wouldn't blame Tony for telling them he's not making that trek all the way to the ring every time he has to interview someone.

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    Maybe after the physicality from the attempt to interview Cody, the theory is Tony played it safe for the second interview on the ramp? I don't really care. An interview is an interview, and I think AEW will allow their broadcasters to get more involved. WWE makes it feels like everything is scripted from their interviewers. AEW likely will let Tony be more like Mean Gene was, and let them riff and have some fun with it.

  18. #18
    Nitro always had some interviews on the ramp.

    https://youtu.be/ySBo59ZdC6Q

    But unfortunately there never will be another Mene Gene. I cant remember the last great interviewer, but Tony's not a terrible choice.
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  19. #19
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    Seconding the many interviews on the ramp. Maybe in the ring was more of a full segment. But Gene would often bring people out on the ramp, and often others would come out. Remember a funny one with Luger/Sting and RW. I haven't watched the AEW show, and due to work, I don't know if/when I will, but the resurrection of Tony S. and his image is one strange, feel good story.

  20. #20
    Early ratings show 1.5-1.7 million which is great. The 'official' number will be a little lower but looks like a great start for them. I'll guess 850,000 for NXT.

  21. #21

  22. #22
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    It's unclear what the number will be exactly because they don't have the numbers from markets like New York and Los Angeles (I suppose it could be even higher if those numbers are big there). Regardless these numbers are strong (they drew a 2.0 in Charlotte for crying out loud) and I expect they'll beat NXT, though I was expecting it anyway.


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    1.4 Million for AEW Dynamite debut

    841K for NXT

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    That is, as the kids say, pretty good.


  25. #25
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    Eh, it's been done.

  26. #26
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    I just watched the show and thought it was good, especially for a first outing for this entire group. The wrestling was okay for the most part, there was not a whole lot of shenanigans that could have turned people off of the product (like the Librarians or Michael Nakazawa oiling up). There were a couple of rough edges, and I think commentary needs to tighten things up significantly. I don't think it was horrible, but Tony Schiavone could have been more present - he spent most of the night saying "that's right" to something J.R. or Excalibur said.

    In all, I thought they did a good job in presenting themselves as a viable alternative. I'm looking forward to seeing what they'll do next. This is going to be a long journey, though, so they still need to get more storylines and interesting matches going to capture people's attention for the long haul. I get why some people might have thought it could have been more, but I don't think it was underwhelming as I've seen some places online. Also, we need to realize that a lot of the wrestlers on the show had their first ever exposure on such a large platform, both live in the arena and on television. I'm sure nerves came into play, and they'll get more comfortable as time goes on.

    As a side note, I watched the show from the Fite app since it's my only (legal) option. Interestingly enough, the show is completely uncut, with the cameras still rolling when it was a commercial break on TNT. Nothing really interesting happened during those periods, though. It would usually just go to a wide angle with no commentary and some few extra shots of the wrestlers getting ready for a match. But there was one funny interaction that I think didn't make air. After the Mox and Omega brawl went to commercial, Jericho took the mic because apparently someone threw a hot dog in the ring.

  27. #27
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    So, I watched the rest of the show.

    Like I said before, I thought that it was alright. Hated Nyla vs Riho. It just is not a believable combination and that bump off the top was ridiculous.

    A couple of things that obviously aren't going to stop my from watching but just bugged me:

    I dislike that Excalibur calls it a "solebutt". It's just an annoying word. It's a spinning kick. That might be the technical, martial arts term for it but it annoys me, especially when it hear it 50 times in a Pac match.

    I didn't love Jericho's pyro. I know it's probably just me. But the flames were cool, the big bright pops were cool, but there were those weird quiet smoke bomb things that looked weird. Again, it's just me, but pyro either needs to be sparks, light, fire or explosions in my mind not just pillars of smoke.

    It's not stuff that's going to keep me from watching or make me turn the TV off, but it's just stuff that I picked up on because that's the type of stuff that producing events makes me see.

    I didn't hate the glass table spot. It was clearly all gimmicked, but looked good enough that if you're going to bump up the heat between Mox and Omega, that's a hell of a way. I hated that it wasn't a DQ and it was really weird, but it wasn't something that made me turn the show off.

    I somewhat wonder if they should have saved one angle or the other for week two. You want to have Omega taken out of that situation so that he's not jobbed out two weeks in a row, but I wonder if there had been another way to do it. The whole package with the match, the awkward Mox/Omega take out with the glass table bump, the remainder of the match and the big heel beatdown was almost too much for me.

    It's one of those things where traditional logic would tell you that it's "too much" and the closing beatdown is going to have people forget about the Mox/Omega stuff. But it's night one. As long as they don't do it all the time it's not a huge deal.

  28. #28
    Watching the full show finally on youtube..love JR getting his passion back...enjoyed tony..and I like that Riho won the womens match. I think it was booked fine with Nila manhandeling her so to speak and Riho taking advatage of all the distance she can get. Nila got to distinguish herself as sort of a dick as well by attacking Riho after the match. I feel aew's been holding back just a little on how bad Nila can be. It's like that hidden dick just wanted to emerge, as she has always had a heel feel. Now its official. Move over Becky, in my opinion there can only be one true man in women's wrestling and its Nila! What a heel.

    AEW needs clear heels.
    Last edited by Benjamin Button; 2 Weeks Ago at 04:57 AM.
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  29. #29
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Degenerate View Post
    there was not a whole lot of shenanigans that could have turned people off of the product (like the Librarians or Michael Nakazawa oiling up).
    This is an interesting point to me. Am I right in what I've heard, that there's also no Janela or Orange Cassady or pretty much anyone from that 'wing'? Are they going to drop a lot of the more contentious stuff in one go next week, or are they going to drip feed some of those acts and introduce them across a longer period of time?

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  30. #30
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    My guess is that they'll rotate who's on TV. There were a lot of people from the roster who weren't on the first show. Besides the ones you mentioned there's also Shawn Spears, Darby Allin, Dark Order, Luchasaurus and Jungle Boy, Best Friends, among others. I also had expected to see at least one more women's match, or at least more of the female roster presented somehow. I guess there's so much you can do in less than an hour and a half with commercials.

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    Allin, Luchasaurus, Jungle Boy and the Best Friends were all at the show, they just wrestled in the dark matches. Orange Cassidy was there too as a member of the Best Friends and they had an extra woman's match as well (Bea Priestley/Penelope Ford vs. Allie/Britt Baker). I think a few are going to air on some bonus content show but I'm not sure. Regardless, they'll be using these people, they just wanted to stick with what they had week one. So sorry Prime; "Freshly Squeezed" and Janela will still be around entertaining twerps like me.


  32. #32
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    It's no skin off my nose, of course, and just confirms me in my instinct that it's not going to be for me. But I meant how would they be introduced to the wider audience. If they're just there but not on the broadcast, that doesn't really count.

    But I never doubted they'd be using them so the question still stands I guess, are they going to run an episode that features a lot of those acts shortly, or will they spread them out more?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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    Smart money is on spreading them out. I mean clearly by leaving them out in the premiere you think your target demographic may not be into it. Maybe you arent sure- exactly why you leave it off. You don't just lay it all out there in week 2 to find out. Easiest way to push away the largest number of audience. You do 1-2 "side attractions" a week. I say next week they use Cassidy, and 1-2 more. It sounds like Cassidy has the highest chance to succeed based on the gimmick I've heard- it's almost a spectacle. So it would be most likely that they use maybe 2 more in the episode, then hold off on the rest until following weeks. So most likely, episode 2 will feel quite a bit different, but not entirely.


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    Given what they had on the show last week,it didn't really fit with more comedy acts/ hardcore wrestling but I do think they will need some of that to spice up the vairety of the show.. I could seeing doing a Cassidy seg in between tag matches this week.

  35. #35
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    I'll just say I quite enjoyed the show overall, it didn't blow me away but it was fun and felt just special enough. Nyla/Riho was my favorite of the night, Nyla had some big moments and Riho completely rallied the crowd behind her. I liked Cody/Sammy a lot specifically for Cody, the way he kept going for pins to support the story behind the match that he promised not to go on to Full Gear if he took a loss was a great underlying story. I liked the MJF/Cutler semi-squash, whether it was the plan or not. Cutler got a little shine but we established MJF is much higher in the hierarchy, which is important.

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    * Jon Moxley vs. Shawn Spears

    * Private Party vs. The Young Bucks in an AEW World Tag Team Titles tournament match

    * AEW World Champion Chris Jericho and Sammy Guevara vs. Adam Page and Dustin Rhodes

    * Darby Allin vs. Jimmy Havoc with the winner challenging Jericho the following week


    I hope they add something to determine a contender for the women's title as well. Depending on what match types they are moving forward with, I recommend a fatal 4-way, that way they can take step one to establish more women for the future.

  37. #37
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    Wednesday night AEW and NXT might, after the last four days of WWE, be the only new American wrestling I watch now. With that in mind, that looks like a really good card, full of matches with consequences.

    Part of me is expecting Moxley/Spears to have some Omega shenanigans involved, but otherwise I think that's a really competitive set of matches. More so than the first week, the card makes me look forward to the show.

  38. #38
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    It looks like a great show. The following week also has a couple of solid matches.

    My only nitpick is that I think we're already seeing lots of cracks on the whole "wins and losses matter" booking when it comes to championship opportunities. Both Allin and Havoc both have losing records, so why do they get a chance to face Jericho next week? PAC would be the next in line if that were the case.

    My guess is that the win-loss thing will get dropped soon. I'd even go as far as saying that wins and losses won't matter in the next 6 to 9 months.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Degenerate View Post
    It looks like a great show. The following week also has a couple of solid matches.

    My only nitpick is that I think we're already seeing lots of cracks on the whole "wins and losses matter" booking when it comes to championship opportunities. Both Allin and Havoc both have losing records, so why do they get a chance to face Jericho next week? PAC would be the next in line if that were the case.

    My guess is that the win-loss thing will get dropped soon. I'd even go as far as saying that wins and losses won't matter in the next 6 to 9 months.
    Cody mentioned quality of wins on twitter. Alin went to a draw with him and beat Cima in a dark match the next week (that will be ahown on YouTube today)

    Havoc won that Hardcore brawl

    I do agree that wins and losses will matter less eventually but they did come up with reasons for this match

  40. #40
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    I mean, Ring of Honor started out with something like that and then abandoned it. Wasn't it a Top 5 based on wins and losses? I seem to recall it being abandoned around the time that Danielson started to send open contracts to other promotions - so it must have lasted for quite a while, actually, 4/5 years. And they had a Pick 6 thing later down the line.

    I suppose part of the trouble around that is it stops you, potentially, from building lengthy feuds - like, if someone loses to Jericho through shady means, what do they have to do in terms of W/L to get back into contention? What if someone has a better W/L record as a result of those losses to the champion, but there's clear grounds for a rematch? It's a curious one, and I half like it and half dislike it. Equally, hanging everything on it as a crutch for AEW to determine challengers is something we, as fans, likely shouldn't be doing and we probably just want to enjoy what they give us without using it to question their creative decisions - especially right now, when the promotion is nascent.

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