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Thread: AEW Dynamite

  1. #41
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I think it'd be a shame if they abandoned it. Wrestling has a major problem with impulse control, and not being able to stick to something that they've made such a thing that they're going to do would be disappointing. It's also the only thing they've done that's gotten me even remotely interested in seeing how they do, so it'd be disappointing for that reason, too.

    Eventually breaking it for specific reasons and matches isn't a big deal, because there's actually a benefit in breaking the rules once they are established, but you've got to make them mean something first.

    Quality of wins is a good thing way of explaining why you do things that might be a bit odd at first, but they'll want to be cautious about overdoing that. Really, you're going to want it to be obvious. If you have to explain it, you aren't doing it very well. Right now I can see why you'd want to give them a bit of leeway because there aren't many matches to work with but it's something that should iron itself out down the line and you need to make it clear without needing Cody or whoever to fill in the footnotes.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  2. #42
    Havoc did win that fatal fourway...Darby is a harder case to make but since cody is the number one contender and he took him to a draw there's that case they can make. Why would either get a shot over Pac? Well, though based on wins Pac would be over them in a top ten, the champ has to be subject to defend his title against anyone within a certain ranking, not just the #1 and #2 contenders.
    See the latest of my Ric Flair saga click here. http://lordsofpain.tv/showthread.php...acock-(Part-2) View my story inspired by colorful wrestlers I've come across in my fandom. http://lordsofpain.tv/showthread.php...-the-Challenge

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    Wednesday night AEW and NXT might, after the last four days of WWE, be the only new American wrestling I watch now. With that in mind, that looks like a really good card, full of matches with consequences. I think that's a really competitive set of matches. More so than the first week, the card makes me look forward to the show.
    This is a huge factor. None of the matches are the draws that match last week’s debut, but the matches will matter more. This is smart on their end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Degenerate View Post
    My only nitpick is that I think we're already seeing lots of cracks on the whole "wins and losses matter" booking when it comes to championship opportunities. Both Allin and Havoc both have losing records, so why do they get a chance to face Jericho next week? PAC would be the next in line if that were the case. My guess is that the win-loss thing will get dropped soon. I'd even go as far as saying that wins and losses won't matter in the next 6 to 9 months.
    I don’t think it’ll be dropped, but they should have loose rules about it. Darby vs Havoc at least are earning a spot in a title match, and after other victories. In real combat sports, it’s not always the top contender that gets the title shot, but it is generally someone in the top 5 (at least in UFC it is). It depends on who is cleared and available.

    If they make the rules too strict, there won’t be a lot of room for creativity.

  4. #44
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    If they did Pac vs. Jericho then everyone here would be wondering why the hell they didn't save Pac vs. Jericho, which is at least a semi-big match, for a situation where they could build it up more. Even with wins and losses mattering there's still some things you don't want to hot shot (especially since AEW is very dependent on drawing both ratings and PPV buys) and giving away Pac vs. Jericho on one week's build with the result obvious (Jericho isn't losing the title before the Cody match) would be dumb.

    Plus, once you get beyond Pac, this match makes a ton of sense for this spot. I know people haven't seen it yet (it'll air tonight) but Darby Allin (who is 1-1-1) did beat CIMA prior to the first Dynamite taping and thus far he's the only guy to get close to beating Cody, the actual number one contender. If we are talking "quality of result" then that draw against Cody is mightily impressive and defeating CIMA, a guy who did take Kenny Omega to the limit at Fight for the Fallen, is also impressive. And Havoc won the triple threat match at All Out which was a decent deal. After them the next few people in line would be Omega, CIMA, Kip Sabian, MJF and Sonny Kiss, all guys who have identical records to Havoc and Allin (CIMA is 1-2, Omega is 1-2, Sabian is 1-1, MJF is 1-1, Sonny Kiss is 1-0). Pac is really the only person who you could 100% argue is ahead of them due to record and again, AEW would get roasted if they put Pac vs. Jericho for the title on one week's build with an obvious result, when that could realistically be the program for after Full Gear. So this isn't that farfetched, especially since I expect Allin will win. That would put him at 2-1-1 with two big wins and a draw against the current #1 contender; sounds good to me. Plus that could be a star making performance for him against Jericho.

    It all makes more sense than what I would've done, which is Jericho vs. Dustin Rhodes (who is 0-1 in singles). But I'm a sentimental guy who would've been hyped for Dustin getting oh so close to the title, not to mention the connection to the Cody-Jericho feud.


  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    I don’t think it’ll be dropped, but they should have loose rules about it. Darby vs Havoc at least are earning a spot in a title match, and after other victories. In real combat sports, it’s not always the top contender that gets the title shot, but it is generally someone in the top 5 (at least in UFC it is). It depends on who is cleared and available.

    If they make the rules too strict, there won’t be a lot of room for creativity.
    Bingo. I hope that they don't handcuff themselves with this "wins and losses matter" stuff. Even in legitimate competitive combat sports where wins and losses completely matter (in UFC you'll be cut entirely if you lose enough in a row) it's still a "work" in that they're trying to promote money fights so you might be better ranked than me, but if me vs the Champ is going to do a bigger number I might still get the shot even if you're healthy and ready to go.

    I almost half think that they should lay off the gas of Cody being the "boss" and let Tony be in that Dana White role. Not as the on-screen commissioner or any bullshit like that, but as the owner in real life.

    Then wins and losses can become part of the storytelling even if you'd like to book things that aren't adhering to records. Book Kenny vs Jericho for a PPV, have Tony announce it, and then have someone like Pac complain that he's higher ranked than a guy who hasn't won a match since AEW started.

    I think a lot of people who were into the idea of "wins and losses matter" don't necessarily follow shoot combat sports and it's creating a little bit of a situation where they feel that the only thing that should matter is "this guy has x wins so he should be in a better position than the guy who has w". Not having "professional records" like they do in MMA (which would be a nightmare in pro wrestling) and having everyone walk into AEW with 0-0-0 records makes it a little difficult, too.

    W/L records are hard to do with weekly TV where some guys are going to wrestle 20 times a year on Dynamite.

    EDIT: I think that a Top 10 rankings list per division like UFC has would go a long way to helping. They can adjust the rankings almost live based on who wins what, but maybe the top five, or anyone in that top 10, is eligible for a title shot. Perhaps the number two ranked guy is eligible for an immediate title shot, but anyone else in the top 10 is eligible to be in a contendership match with anyone else in the top 10.

    At the end of the day, the primary reason this "wins and losses matter" thing is happening is because it creates discussion. These are guys who know how to use social media really well, and these records (and doing things that don't necessarily jive with the records) create that discussion of "my guy should be in that spot because he has a record of x" and that can be a good, really fun, thing as long as fans don't get crazy serious about this shit. We all know wrestling fans could never take anything too seriously.

  6. #46
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    The way I see it, there's two really effective ways that the W/L thing has been used in the past. One is the momentum thing, or what you might call the Goldberg example. If you give someone enough wins in a row, they quite clearly look like the number one contender and everyone thinks they deserve a shot. You then let that build to where they get that shot. Simple and easy to pull off, so long as you've got the right guy in the role that people don't turn on 'em.

    Obviously you can't really run that one when everyone has had, like, three matches at best.

    The other is you get a handful of people with similar-ish records, and you let people speculate on which one of those is 'better' than the others, drive a bit of tension and mystery that way, and eventually do a big reveal by the authority figure which gives you your match. Even though it was never their standard model I've seen WWE pull versions of this with a very different feel in the early 1990s, New Gen, Attitude Era, and in the aftermath of that. Only really seems to be in recent years they moved away from it completely.

    Records are a really effective tool, but the question should be, what are you looking to build? What's the story? You don't abandon them because it undercuts so many other things you're trying to do and can lead to a sea of meaninglessness without being careful, but at the same time you don't follow them slavishly without an eye on what your end goal is.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  7. #47
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    I mean, I highly doubt that they do the W/L thing forever, but this is a brand new company. If they can get a year out of it before phasing out out I'd consider it a success.

    It was Evolve's entire gimmick and they scrapped it eventually.

  8. #48
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    I wouldn't mind betting that they stop showing the records on screen and the like, but again, I'd be disappointed if they dropped it completely.

    Recent records and getting a clear relation between winning matches lately and recent title shots, so people can see the connection themselves, are all I think you really need.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  9. #49
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    If you have one show and a bunch of talent that you cant use every week, i think the wins and losses thing is an extra layer of protection for their top guys...but also, we haven’t seen everything that they wanna do with it all he stats and stuff. Last week on the debut was very standard without getting into all the added things

  10. #50
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    I noticed before the main event that the record shown by their names was a trios record. I liked that detail.

    Keeping that in mind, I personally enjoy tag team feud built around TV singles matches. Bucks vs Lucha Bros for example would have been helped with TV matches between Pentagon vs Nick Jackson, then the next week Fenix vs Matt Jackson. I bring this up, because I'd be curious to see how singles records for tag competitors could be used. I wasn't watching NWA in the 80s, but I love how the rumor was the Rock N Roll Connection was almost split up to give Flair Ricky Morton as a challenger. I find that a fascinating possibility. Imagine post-Full Gear, they need to determine a new #1 contender, so they book a fatal 4way based on singles records only. And one of the people included is half of Private Party, and it's all because he's got a great singles record building up the team's feuds.

    The W/L records are a great asset to AEW to start, but I do agree that over time it'll be removed. Not only have wrestling promotions erased these early gimmicks as they evolved, but I'll point to how Bellator MMA started as a tournament only promotion, but it became too restrictive, and now it's a standard fight card. BUT, Scott Coker does book more tournaments than UFC ever has, keeping the Bellator history in the mix today.

    Anyhoo, AEW should use this W/L thing while it's hot.

  11. #51
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    I have always considered myself a "WWE-only" type of guy because it felt like a chore to emotionally invest into other wrestling organization and characters when a company I grew up with has a history already in place. That being said, I did watch AEW Dynamite on Wednesday and came away impressed with what I saw. Here are some thoughts:

    1.) They did an EXCELLENT job with pre-match promos and understanding that their audience would be a lot of people tuning in for the first time. I think WWE makes this mistake repeatedly with NXT to WWE call ups, assuming the fan base watches the yellow brand and will have a built in emotional investment to said character. AEW bridged the gap nicely by having well shot and to-the-point pre-match vignettes that told the necessary story needed to make the in-ring product match it.

    I think Jericho's attack on Cody would've been a lot better had Rhodes been able to get some words in post match. He was clearly emotional and giving context to what opening the show meant could've made the eventual beat down that much better, as you juxtapose the emotion of a night with the intentions of Jericho.

    I had no friggon clue who Sammy Guevera was but I felt like I could invest into his mission after hearing his story. To be 26-years old, a virtual unknown outside of dedicated wrestling fans, and put into that spot of opening the show against Cody Rhodes had to be a lot of pressure, and I was invested into how serious he took the challenge to be. For Cody, I felt he told more than just the vanilla "I'm not overlooking Sammy" narrative that they could've just played it safe with. Not only did Cody respect Guevera enough to say he wasn't over looking him, he gave insight into the ramifications of what a loss to him could be. To me, doing something like this checked two boxes:

    1.) It gave the "WWE only" fan, or casual wrestling fan, a reason to invest without knowing the short history of the company and.

    2.) It legitimized wrestling for any of the "wrestling is fake" crowd who happened to be channel surfing and saw this. The video vignettes were succint, authentic, and well intentioned to the point where even the skeptic of professional wrestling had to take notice.

    You don't realize how numb you are to emotional investment in wrestling until a company comes along and makes the wins/losses matter again. This is an aspect AEW did a very nice job with. I feel right now in WWE, there isn't a lot at stake and I'm not told why someone needs to win. There seems to be this sense of entitlement with the top guys with WWE to where they're almost expected to be in the spots they're in and everything is carefully crafted around that.

    Justin Roberts, Tony Schiavone, and Jim Ross were all EXCELLENT hires! It felt like a nice blend of WCW when it was at its best and WWE attitude era when it was clicking as well. Establishing your own identity with home grown guys is important, but these three add legitimacy to the product. Roberts announcing is crisp and gives everything a big match feel, Jim Ross paints such a great picture during the course of a match and his reactions come off natural, and Schiavone is just a smooth operator in general. You get the wrong guys for announcing/color commentary and this entire show could've had a different feel.

    MJF comes off as a great natural heel and Brandon Cutler was the perfect opponent character wise as the guy who was just happy to have the opportunity to be doing this again. Perfect way for a first TV impression to come off.

    I have mixed feelings about Riho Vs. Nyla Rose. From an in-ring story telling perspective, these two knocked it out of the park. Again, I know absolutely nothing about either of these women but found myself getting behind Riho becoming champion. It's a simple story to be told of undersized underdog vs. favored giant, and I'll be damned if it doesn't work almost every time. When Riho originally tried to pick her up and failed, you could feel the pain and that is what SHOULD be coming across to fans. I do have to say, I think they missed the boat on story telling here. You have the first openly transgender wrestler ever, and that is absolutely something that should have been played up here to a new audience watching for the first time. I suppose you could make the case that a topic like that is still controversial and it could do more harm than good, but it plays into the all inclusive mission the company has really pushed hard for. The transgender competitor in main stream competition is still something unique and largely untold to the 4 major sports and I think it would've given them yet another emotional topic to connect with a new audience on. I suppose the skeptic could say that acknowledging the transgender thing could open up a can of worms about whether or not she should compete against women, but I honestly would've doubled down on it given the direction they seem to be going. They missed the boat on Rhio though, too. They could have easily played up the fact that she's just 22 years old and main evented a wrestling show at the age of 13. Maybe they felt the "David vs. Goliath" and precedent of crowning a new champion was enough, but if ever a video package should've been put together- it should've been for this match.


    Overall, good show and for someone fairly new to this organization I found it to be a fresh alternative to WWE. Some of that is probably "new car smell" that will wear off, but I saw a lot of good things they're intentionally doing different than WWE.

    I would err on the side of caution though as far as their rating goes. Keep in mind that TNA's big show on January 4, 2010, when they somewhat competed with WWE, garnered 2.5 million viewers and 2.2 million viewers respectively for those two hours and they fell off a cliff every week after. The initial buzz is going to wear off and people will settle into a new normal, naturally elevating their expectations for the show. Is AEW up to the challenge?

    Forgive me for not touching on everything, maybe even some of the obvious, but these were what stuck out to me as really a first time AEW watcher.
    Last edited by typeitinmaan; 1 Week Ago at 01:26 PM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    W/L records are hard to do with weekly TV where some guys are going to wrestle 20 times a year on Dynamite.
    I think this is, perhaps, the biggest flaw in it for me. Someone like PAC, are you really going to hand them a defeat on TV regularly enough to hold off on a title match until a big money point in time, but without bringing him to a point where he's not seen as a half decent threat?

    Maybe they need to do a kind of form table, rather than an overall W/L thing - a 'last 10' or something.

    I mean, if someone goes 0-5 now, but then wins 10 on the spin, they could be 10-5. But the form they've been on might be better than someone who's 10-5 but lost every third match regularly.

    Probably ties a bit into both of Prime's examples - you get a 'streak' as well as a question of which 10-5 wrestler is better.

  13. #53
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    I personally think they should never do away with the win/loss approach, and doing so would be detrimental to their viewership.

    First it separates them from WWE, and most every other fed. It shows you as the viewer why this person deserves to be in a title match, as opposed to companies like WWE doing the whole 'just cause' approach. Second, their target demo dominantly watch sports. Wins and losses creates its own narrative, and shows the audience the consequence of defeat, which builds suspense for wins all in its own. Doing away with it ever, honestly is an extremely foolish idea. Don't toss out what makes you unique. Especially when it is something their target demo lean on for easy narrative.

    The average 20-30 something guy can tune in after a few weeks and know what is going on based on records. Whereas if you do away with that, they will lose audience members, as some will feel like they've fallen too far behind in the narrative if they miss a few episodes, then they just drift from the product altogether- it's all about accessibility. The day they do away with wins/losses is the day their company starts dying a slow death imho, because it is the day they are no different from WWE. And WWE may be terrible at booking, but they are light years ahead in production value.

    I do think having tie breakers is crucial though, and maybe annual tournaments. In sports, if two teams are tied they go by head to head, e.t.c. Have annual tournies where only the top 8 make it in or something. Who doesnt love a tourney? And definitely create some room for who can contend, but make it well known. Like anyone in the top 5 can compete for the belt at any time.

    Wins/losses are easy narrative. I can say personally the day they do away with that approach is the day I start losing interest. And I imagine they are trying to lure in guys who love sports. Those fans won't stick around once you take that easy narrative away.


  14. #54
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    You can justify Pac not getting an early title shot because of the way he wins matches.. like needing low blows should penalize you more than when you just beat someone fair.. it could also alter how someone deals with a match. You know if you cheat, its not really advantageous in the long term but in short term, if you just want revenge, that could work.

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    Bea Priestly and Sakura vs. Britt Baker and Riho has also been announced for tonight's show

  16. #56
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    It's interesting how AEW's strategy is differing from NXT's. You look at tonight's AEW show and while it looks pretty good, the matches aren't anything that's going to be anything in the Match of the Year discussion (at least I don't think). Meanwhile NXT has Lio Rush vs. Drew Gulak, Roderick Strong vs. Isaiah Scott and Walter vs. KUSHIDA, three matches that should be really good. It seems to me (at least right now) that AEW is willing to take it slow with big matches on TV in order to save those for the big shows, while NXT is doing the opposite. I'm not sure if either is the wisest move honestly.


  17. #57
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    If they stuck to strictly those plans, I'd say AEW has the wiser method, as it'll be better long term. But I don't believe either will be staying this course forever. I'm guessing NXT continues with attraction matches to get the numbers up, but if/when they are steadily winning the ratings, AEW will likely ramp up their style...etc. And, the obvious flaw in NXT's method is they will eventually run out of marquee matchups.

    That said, barring bringing names like Cena to NXT, none of the NXT matches are really marquee.

  18. #58
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    I want to see how AEW develops their characters, what is done with Jericho’s stabe more than just the matches. NXT has really just focused on the wrestling and while that has been pretty good, it doesn’t make me too interested in the characters

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    That said, barring bringing names like Cena to NXT, none of the NXT matches are really marquee.
    This is why I believe AEW will win the ratings again comfortably tonight. If nothing else they ended last week with that strong angle with Jericho's stable (plus Moxley attacking Omega), which should serve as some sort of hook tonight as people look for an explanation. Maybe NXT can do the same thing playing up Balor and Ciampa going after Cole (although I haven't seen a whole lot of that on social media) but beyond that...I mean KUSHIDA and Walter are both great and that match should be really strong, but they're not drawing a huge audience at this point between them. Neither is Gulak-Rush and Roddy-Scott. Until NXT builds up these guys more this is going to be an issue and if they're giving away these matches without adding some character elements to them...yeah.


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    Those are all non-factors. The truth is that TNT and AEW are doing a great job in marketing, and have pushing this for longer. NXT was announced almost last minute. So NXT will likely continue doing what they are currently doing, and in my opinion, putting out a better Wednesday night show. I'm guessing the hope is for the reputation to push the ratings over AEW in time. I think that's a solid game plan, IF both shows remain as we saw from week one. AEW won't be stupid. If they start losing viewers to NXT, they'll change their program in some way too.

  21. #61
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    I was just coming in here to heave a sigh that Darby (who I love) is in line for a possible title shot coming off a loss, but then I remembered he beat CIMA on AEW Dark and felt better about it. As far as wins and losses go, my only real ask is that guys who just took a clear cut loss don't immediately get rewarded with a big match. If you lose, I want to see them get built back up just a bit before going right into something big.

  22. #62
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    Jericho just nearly gave me a boner. One of the best promos of the past 30 years. Mother of Grod that was awesome.


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    I was at last week's show. I did not think this show had a chance to be better than last week. It was VASTLY better than last week. The opening match tag (which won't be for everyone but was right in my wheelhouse), the Jericho promo, Pac at the announcer's booth, the main event, the main event angle, JACK EVANS REACTIONS AT RINGSIDE! 10/10. What a great week of shows between this, NWA Powerrr and I presume NXT.


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    Minus the women's tag match, and the ref seeing a DQ but not calling it in the main event, AEW week 2 was rocketship spectacular. That tag opener, and Y2J's promo were fucking sensational.


  25. #65
    I thought it was a great show. Nice to see Jericho leading a stable. The only person I really can’t stand from tonight is Jimmy Havoc. I don’t see anything positive about that hack.

    There’s too much good wrestling on Wednesday. I’ll try to live with it though.

  26. #66
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    Lol poor Bryce. The intent was definitely for Guevara to distract him while Hager (or is it Hagar; Jericho was definitely calling him Hagar like he was the lead singer of the worst incarnation of Van Halen) and yet he had to look up while Hager was still in the ring. I'll let that one slide because they were at least trying to distract him and he just looked up too early, unlike last week where the Moxley thing was a clear DQ and they were just like "NOPE!"

    I liked the women's tag but it was definitely the weak link if we're going by overall quality. Riho and Emi Sakura are really good, Bea Priestley strikes me as someone who can be really good but hasn't had the right opportunity and Britt Baker...I don't know. I thought she looked really good back at Double or Nothing and I thought she was better tonight than the last few times, but there's no question she was lacking at Fight for the Fallen (even before the concussion), she wasn't that impressive in the Casino Battle Royal and was the worst performer last week in that AEW Dark tag match. I don't know if she's just having poor performances at the wrong time or if she just had a fluke performance at Double or Nothing, but she's definitely been the least impressive female thus far. The other three were just fine though. Hopefully they use Emi Sakura more; she's not as well known as Meiko Satomura is but is similar in being a really great performer for a long time who is finally getting opportunities.


    Quote Originally Posted by comfortablynumb View Post
    There’s too much good wrestling on Wednesday. I’ll try to live with it though.

    Wednesday is the new wrestling night! Actually it was always the wrestling night; AEW has just taken Lucha Underground's place now. Imagine if LU were still around? WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO YOURSELF CULT?!
    Last edited by Cult Icon; 1 Week Ago at 10:56 PM.


  27. #67
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    Here's a great clip of the Young Bucks "wrestling"


    That opener was almost enough for me to turn this show off, but I'll stick around for this supposed great promo.

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    Thought the show was miles better than last week. The Bucks putting Private Party in a great match, good Jericho promo ( wasnt all time great to me..Jericho sounded like he had a little bit of the bubbly) giving Havoc some insert promo was smart, Darby is a star. Show ending was another great one that makes hype for next week

  29. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    It's interesting how AEW's strategy is differing from NXT's. You look at tonight's AEW show and while it looks pretty good, the matches aren't anything that's going to be anything in the Match of the Year discussion (at least I don't think). Meanwhile NXT has Lio Rush vs. Drew Gulak, Roderick Strong vs. Isaiah Scott and Walter vs. KUSHIDA, three matches that should be really good. It seems to me (at least right now) that AEW is willing to take it slow with big matches on TV in order to save those for the big shows, while NXT is doing the opposite. I'm not sure if either is the wisest move honestly.
    I think both shows are in a different place though, Cult. AEW is world/universe building, whereas NXT has done that bit already and drop some of these bigger matches in because pretty much everyone is already established in terms of character and motivations. Plus, they can pull rabbits like Balor coming back and Ciampa returning where we already know what their purpose is (well, we know what Ciampa's purpose is. I'm not convinced Balor has a purpose except to have an absurd number of abs and be very good at face painting. I wonder if he's available for birthdays and b'not mitzvah) and what they're going to want to do. Meanwhile AEW pulls out Jake Hagrid and then has to take a few weeks to get over why he exists - an existential question to which they may find there is no answer.

    Also, you're a bastard for having me imagine how good Wednesday's could be if there was an hour of season 5 to watch as well. But if there was then maybe AEW would look quite different. So who knows whether that would be a good or bad thing.

    I might just rewatch LU from the start now.

    This week's show was, on the whole, a step up from last week for sure. I feel a little bit of Pen's pain on watching the Young Bucks wrestle - similarly to Randy Orton, when they aren't motivated it feels like they switch into 'going through the motions' mode and it becomes a bit of a spot to spot thing, rather than a focused match. This felt somewhere in the middle of their two gears. Jericho's promo was great, PAC is the BEST right now, and all the other matches delivered for me. I have a love/hate relationship with AEW going as deep into the WCW show ending territory as possible two weeks in a row, with the only thing missing being Schiavone shouting 'we're outta time, folks!' on commentary, and feel like they just need one of these early shows where the main event, or post-main event, stuff doesn't devolve into a brawl with a bunch of faces turning up to further feuds and get that 'tune in next week to see what happens' hype, but for now it's OK. Just not too many.

  30. #70
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    I didn't notice a lot of no selling from the Bucks this time, I thought if anything they seemed a slight bit more mature, or toned down. The big reason I thought the match was an outstanding opener is that they put over a big time underdog, and got the crowd fired up. It was a fast paced, spectacle kind of match, and a great swerve by AEW to show fans they aren't just gonna go with what's logical, or obvious just because. I also got swerved by that false finish shortly before by Kassady (?) . Figured that made it obvious the Bucks were about to win. That was a finish booked on different levels. I was impressed.

    And Y2J shooting on the fans about "We the people" was when that promo hit legend status for me. Without even missing a beat he turned it into a sell for AEW while connecting with fans as to why they no longer watch WWE. You could even see Hager trying not to break out of character with a grin. I think the tipsy vibe was just the persona he is going for. I plan on watching that promo again today to see if it hits me the way it did last night. It felt perfect in the moment.


  31. #71
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    I didn't mind the opening match. It was a fast-paced spot-heavy opener but I was far from offended by it.

    I though that the overall show was better than last week's but that women's tag match was nap time for me. Emi Sakura didn't blow me away, Bea Priestly is aggressively terrible (and unsafe it appears) and Riho just does nothing for me.

    That main event tag match was a lot of fun, as was Mox vs Spears. I don't know why you'd let one of your three mainstream names take a bump onto his head into the barricade, but it is what it is.

    I do have a question, though. Is this a company where there are no "stars" and everyone is just on the same level? Because Spears took a heat on Mox that went on so long because of the commercial PiP that it was almost too much at one point. It's like Jericho's attack from last week on Cody.

    The closing brawl was pretty good, and the non-swerve with MJF was appreciated.

    I wasn't so high on Jericho's promo as some were. I feel a little bit like he's pulling somewhat of a Don Callis now that he had no writers and being a little self serving and swearing for the sake of swearing, but we'll see.

    I'll tune in next week because Darby Allin has grown on me.

  32. #72
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    I did love Allin coming down the ramp on a skateboard, I must say. Makes me want to see him use the new Raw set as a half pipe.

    I do have a question, though. Is this a company where there are no "stars" and everyone is just on the same level?
    I think so - I think AEW is trying to initially put out a competitive field wherein nobody is especially 'low' on the totem pole, if that makes sense. It probably ties back to wins and losses mattering - if you have that as an edict, then you have to make it feel pretty even in terms of whether or not talent can win a particular match.

    I should also say - I love Jimmy Havoc with my whole heart.

  33. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    I did love Allin coming down the ramp on a skateboard, I must say. Makes me want to see him use the new Raw set as a half pipe.
    The first thing I thought when I saw it was that it looked like a skateboard ramp.

    Thinking back on Jericho's promo, the part where he buries "we the people" would hold a lot more water if Hager wasn't still doing the pose at every one of his MMA weigh ins and photo ops.

  34. #74
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    He won't now that Jericho buried it.

  35. #75
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    If Hager keeps doing the chant, sure it's dumb. But the whole point of that segment last night was to establish that the Jake Hager you see is not going to be the guy you saw in WWE. He's not the "we the people" guy. Even without that line from Jericho (who I'm pretty sure improvised that line on the spot given he stopped while the fans were chanting) the whole point of that section was to establish that Jake Hager is a different guy than the one you used to know and quite frankly I thought Jericho did a hell of a job. You also didn't hear any other "we the people" chants the rest of the night (at least I didn't) so it seems like it effectively killed the chant at least for the rest of the show. Maybe that'll change going forward but for last night it was effective, and overall I thought the promo was a home run in Jericho both getting his group over and introducing them.

    That's really been the best thing AEW has done these past few weeks; establishing new players. Even if you didn't love the Private Party-Young Bucks match for the style or whatever reason (and I personally thought it did a hell of a job featuring spots while also having great selling from Isaiah Kassidy and some really nice storytelling beats) you can't deny that the match and most importantly the victory instantly established those two as, at worst, budding stars, something they weren't even after impressive performances on the Fyter Fest and All Out Pre-Shows. LAX are bigger deals than before just by standing next to Jericho. You may not like Riho Coach but I can tell you now that she got one of the biggest reactions of the show I went too last week when she won the title (after getting a decent but not super reaction walking out) and she was the most over woman in that tag match tonight. Sammy Guevara before that Cody match was just a dude; now he's a guy who took Cody to the limit, is in main events teaming with Chris Jericho and is on his way to being a credible main event heel. And there's no doubt that Darby Allin came out of tonight looking like a star and he's going to be even bigger after next week if he and Jericho deliver. That's two tag teams, one woman's star and two young singles guys who in two weeks have gone from "people on the roster" to buzz worthy players. That's pretty damn good.

    And by the by, they have a certified superstar and his name is Jon Moxley. He was super over last week, he seemed to be the most over guy on this show besides Jericho and Darby Allin's awesome skateboard spot and while he did go for awhile against Shawn Spears it never once felt like it diminished him (if anything, I thought Mox made Shawn Spears look far better than he had previously in AEW). Pen and I were talking about this last night (I'm sure he'll elaborate on his thoughts later) and energy around him reminded both of us of a few years ago when he should've been the guy pushed in WWE, only for him to instead he got swallowed by holograms and exploding TV's. He's got that momentum back right now. He's the guy, which makes the Omega match so intriguing as far as the result goes.


  36. #76
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    I don't think that Hager does the chant, it's just that hand over the heart pose that he always used to do is his go-to for photo ops. I don't imagine he's going to quit something he's become associated with in real life because Jericho decided to cut off some chants.

    Riho doesn't bother me at all, I just couldn't be less interested in her. Nothing she does seems to have much on it because she's so small, so I just don't like seeing people sell for her.

    Mox is still my favourite part of the company. He's probably been one of my facourite things in pro wrestling since the G1. You really could tell last night that he's had a serious upper body injury, though. Hopefully he can get back into the shape he was in before the injury.

    Those PiP commercial breaks are starting to get to me a little, though. Because US commercial breaks are so long, seeing Jericho or Spears beat down the guys they're working with for like three straight minutes just feels a bit much. Last week with Cody and Jericho felt like the Family Guy chicken gag. This week was at least a match, but could have used a hope spot somewhere in there just to break things up a little.

    I liked last night's show better than the week before. It dragged a little bit toward the end, though. I'm sure part of it was that I was out when it was on live and actually watched it from 8-10 local time so after the Mox/Spears match I asked out loud how much time was left. For me, I think it was that women's tag match that felt like it lasted a month.

  37. #77
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    Dusty's daughter called Jericho's use of Dusty to be lazy and I agree, probably not for her personal reasons though. Jericho's comment about Dusty was boring and shows he has no teeth behind it. Just to get a reaction and the thing is, Cody can and should go after Jericho way harder than that.

    I still liked Jericho's promo but thought the family stuff overall was forced.

  38. #78
    Someone mentioned it above but I did like Jericho pronouncing Jake Hager like Sammy Hagar's name.

    Another small thing I noticed, and maybe he did it at the summer events, was Justin Roberts giving Mox the John Cena treatment when it came to the way he says "John."

  39. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    If Hager keeps doing the chant, sure it's dumb. But the whole point of that segment last night was to establish that the Jake Hager you see is not going to be the guy you saw in WWE. He's not the "we the people" guy. Even without that line from Jericho (who I'm pretty sure improvised that line on the spot given he stopped while the fans were chanting) the whole point of that section was to establish that Jake Hager is a different guy than the one you used to know and quite frankly I thought Jericho did a hell of a job. You also didn't hear any other "we the people" chants the rest of the night (at least I didn't) so it seems like it effectively killed the chant at least for the rest of the show. Maybe that'll change going forward but for last night it was effective, and overall I thought the promo was a home run in Jericho both getting his group over and introducing them.

    That's really been the best thing AEW has done these past few weeks; establishing new players. Even if you didn't love the Private Party-Young Bucks match for the style or whatever reason (and I personally thought it did a hell of a job featuring spots while also having great selling from Isaiah Kassidy and some really nice storytelling beats) you can't deny that the match and most importantly the victory instantly established those two as, at worst, budding stars, something they weren't even after impressive performances on the Fyter Fest and All Out Pre-Shows. LAX are bigger deals than before just by standing next to Jericho. You may not like Riho Coach but I can tell you now that she got one of the biggest reactions of the show I went too last week when she won the title (after getting a decent but not super reaction walking out) and she was the most over woman in that tag match tonight. Sammy Guevara before that Cody match was just a dude; now he's a guy who took Cody to the limit, is in main events teaming with Chris Jericho and is on his way to being a credible main event heel. And there's no doubt that Darby Allin came out of tonight looking like a star and he's going to be even bigger after next week if he and Jericho deliver. That's two tag teams, one woman's star and two young singles guys who in two weeks have gone from "people on the roster" to buzz worthy players. That's pretty damn good.

    And by the by, they have a certified superstar and his name is Jon Moxley. He was super over last week, he seemed to be the most over guy on this show besides Jericho and Darby Allin's awesome skateboard spot and while he did go for awhile against Shawn Spears it never once felt like it diminished him (if anything, I thought Mox made Shawn Spears look far better than he had previously in AEW). Pen and I were talking about this last night (I'm sure he'll elaborate on his thoughts later) and energy around him reminded both of us of a few years ago when he should've been the guy pushed in WWE, only for him to instead he got swallowed by holograms and exploding TV's. He's got that momentum back right now. He's the guy, which makes the Omega match so intriguing as far as the result goes.
    The "we the people thing" leading to pandering was lame overall. I appreciate why he did it, and it did effectively kill the chants at that moment. But, the simple bashing of everything WWE is tiresome and lame.

    AEW has to create new stars. You didn't compare to WWE, so exclude yourself from this part, but I've seen a lot of AEW praise about how much they are superior to WWE at creating stars in just 2 weeks. It's a terrible and extremely flawed argument. WWE has established stars, and therefore don't need to create new ones at the same path as AEW is. They can take their time, experiment, and create stars at their leisure, while using their immense roster of already existing established stars. This isn't to say WWE is treating their established stars well, because that's another discussion altogether. But praising AEW for doing what they need to do isn't exactly noteworthy. I've compared AEW's 2019 to TNA's 2002 several times, and it's increasingly apt. TNA needed to create stars in AJ Styles and Low Ki in the first 2 weeks because they didn't have a lot of established names to work with. AEW are in the same position. They are certainly doing a great job at it, so this isn't a criticism of AEW, but more of the fans saying "here's why it's better than WWE" because it's just not true. A then unknown Seth Rollins won the NXT title by beating Jinder Mahal back in 2011-2012. Creating stars for a new show is always essential.

    As for Jon Moxley, Cult, you know I was done with him for a while. I got excited for the WWE 2018 Dean Ambrose heel turn, but it quickly faded. I'm not sure how much of his complaints post-WWE are valid, but there's no doubt that he was not the same character he is now, and he's so much better as Moxley than Ambrose. It's more natural to see him just be mean. I'm trusting the compliments that he's better in the ring, though I haven't watched. I do believe it, but I can't say it for a fact. What I can say is that his match VS Spears was so much better than anything he's done in WWE since... maybe the original post-Shield break up. He just seems for much more comfortable in this role, and it translates very well through the TV screen. Of all the potential mainstream stars AEW has, Jon Moxley is the one I'd strap the rocket to if I were in AEW.

    And yes, I likely will expand on this with a column in the near future.

  40. #80
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    Ratings are in. AEW was again the winner with 1,018 million viewers compared to NXT's 790K viewers. Both promotions dropped from last week; NXT went down about 101K from 891K last week while AEW dropped 391K from last week's 1.409 million viewers. AEW also once again doubled NXT in several key demos and only lost to NXT in the 50+ demo, much like last week. No word on the ratings AEW got for TruTV which suggests they were low. All in all I think what most people expected.

    Edit: AEW did about 122K viewers on TruTV, which brings their total to 1,140 million viewers overall. That's still down from last week but it's a 269K drop compared to a 391K drop, which is definitely easier to swallow.
    Last edited by Cult Icon; 1 Week Ago at 04:39 PM.


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