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Thread: AEW Dynamite

  1. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    it's something I've felt with Cole throughout his career that his style is really heavily influenced by that period in time. I don't know whether that's true, but it's fucking brutal when he's at his worst. I'd hoped WWE might reign it in (which I thought they'd done with Gargano for a while) but...nope. If anything Cole has made Gargano and Ciampa regress in their matches together.
    I can't speak for Cole before NXT, but he seems to the common denominator since those are the only matches of Gargano and Ciampa that I was left feeling disappointed in. And since Cole seems to be the golden boy, it doesn't shock me that people change their style to replicate that. But I feel like I've yet to see an actual great match from Adam Cole, including the ladder match for the NA title. Some were fine or good, but nothing that was great.

  2. #442
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    Definitely see that All Japan/King's Road style at the heart of a lot of modern trends. I did like PAC/Omega for what it was but it's not my preferred style of match these days. Give me Cody vs. Wardlow any day!

  3. #443
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    So, I hear that they trotted out a legend from the 80's last night, huh?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  4. #444
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    Another legend from the 80's, Prime. Because AEW is the future, unlike WWE using all those legends from the 90s.

    Roberts can still knock a promo out of the park, mind you.

  5. #445
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    I didn't watch it, but Oliver I think you're being a little unfair, comparing AEW bringing Jake Roberts out as a legend mouthpiece to WWE with legend Goldberg with champion for the entire Fox brand. The likely difference for the hypocrite online fans will be that Jake is used to put over a current star, while Goldberg is going to be used t o put over Roman, who these online fans have already shut out as deserving anything.

    EDIT
    On that note though, the true hypocrisy is when they claim Goldberg is too old to be champ, but that Jericho was fine.
    Last edited by PEN15v2; 3 Weeks Ago at 10:01 AM.

  6. #446
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    I agree with Pen in that the difference is that Jake Roberts was there only as a mouthpiece to tell Cody that he is being a bitch and an overbearing leader, hence the Caeser comments. Robets was not there to wrestle a match.

    And in regards to the difference between guys like Jericho and Goldberg, I see that there are a few factors indicating a huge difference. Jericho has never been out of the ring, has not taken years off, nor did he ever 'retire' and come back, and while yes he has slowed down due to age, he can still go and perform in a 20+ minute matches. Goldberg has come back twice, and had some real stinkers of matches, and was only there to appease his son, and for the paycheck. I have no problems with either of those, but he did not need to be champion to do either. Jericho on the other hand at 49 years old, has always been on an active roster, and despite his age, and slowing down some, can still wrestle circles around many others. Look at Christopher Daniels for comparison, who is the same age. He looks terrible and looks very labored in the ring. Jericho does not.


    I think that AEW is really starting to come into it's own, when it talks about story telling and being a 'Professional Wrestling" company. And based on the two shows, AEW and Dynamite from last night, Dynamite was much, much better. NXT had a lot of going through the motions. The ladies cage match was ho hum, and the ending was terrible, and the crowd obviously did not care for it either. I get why they did it, but the pinning of Nox behind the door was terrible. The Men's cage match was fun and set up a potential Dream/Cole feud. And the crowd, IN my opinion wad giving Grimes go away heat, and not good heat.

    AEW told stories with each promo, and match, and was a good show.
    They continued their feuds with:
    SCU and the Dark Order
    Inner Circle and Moxley and Allin
    Inner Circle and Dustin
    PAC (and now the Lucha Bros) renamed the Death Triangle vs the Best Friends

    And clearly were elevating MJF for Moxley
    New feud for Cody

    AEW did a good job with their post PPV Dynamite.
    The Eilite still having issues
    Last edited by Powder; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:23 AM.

  7. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    And in regards to the difference between guys like Jericho and Goldberg, I see that there are a few factors indicating a huge difference. Jericho has never been out of the ring, has not taken years off, nor did he ever 'retire' and come back, and while yes he has slowed down due to age, he can still go and perform in a 20+ minute matches. Goldberg has come back twice, and had some real stinkers of matches, and was only there to appease his son, and for the paycheck. I have no problems with either of those, but he did not need to be champion to do either. Jericho on the other hand at 49 years old, has always been on an active roster, and despite his age, and slowing down some, can still wrestle circles around many others. Look at Christopher Daniels for comparison, who is the same age. He looks terrible and looks very labored in the ring. Jericho does not.
    Except, even when Goldberg was in his prime, he still wasn't wrestling 20 minutes. At his age, Goldberg still accomplishes 95% of what he was doing as WCW champ: intensity, blitz, spear, jackhammer. He messed up after a concussion vs Taker, and struggled with Wyatt who is about 300 lbs. But other than those... he's still the Goldberg of old.

    The factors about pay and his son are non-factors. Changes nothing about his presentation.

  8. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    Except, even when Goldberg was in his prime, he still wasn't wrestling 20 minutes. At his age, Goldberg still accomplishes 95% of what he was doing as WCW champ: intensity, blitz, spear, jackhammer. He messed up after a concussion vs Taker, and struggled with Wyatt who is about 300 lbs. But other than those... he's still the Goldberg of old.

    The factors about pay and his son are non-factors. Changes nothing about his presentation.
    Considering that I just re-watched A Few Good Men, and to borrow a line: I will stipulate.

    But that still does not address that:

    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Jericho has never been out of the ring, has not taken years off, nor did he ever 'retire' and come back, and while yes he has slowed down due to age, he can still go and perform in a 20+ minute matches.
    That goes a long way with people. My best guess is that people do not associate Jericho with the Legends that only come back for a random match, or a WM match, since he never left. Yes he is older than some, and younger than others, but he is still viewed as an active guy who consistently works and succeeds, and is not taking a spot away from others.
    Last edited by Powder; 3 Weeks Ago at 12:05 PM.

  9. #449
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    I largely had my tongue wedged firmly in my cheek there, and think something like that is actually a good use of Roberts (and Anderson etc) to be managers/talkers for other talents. This is apparently a prelude to Brodie Lee debuting, and Roberts managing him is probably a good thing. So, mostly I'm on a little bit of a wind up.

    I do wish people (Powder, you mostly, as nobody else seems to really do it) would stop comparing NXT and AEW. They're both good. Just enjoy them. It's the most tiresome thing to make this into some Nitro vs Raw fanboy bullshit, especially as it's not the 90s and televisions habits/consumptions have changed so you don't have to 'pick a side' to watch.

  10. #450
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    To be fair, you didn't have to pick a side to watch in the 1990s either. I taped Nitro on Friday nights and caught the WWE whenever I could across the weekend, because it was easier to find. I liked 'em both, through until some time in 1999 at least. Then, by the end of the year I didn't really like either, but in 2000 I started to like WWF again.

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  11. #451
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    Except Jericho has left and come back. Just because he didn't "retire", that makes it different? It screams of AEW fans making exceptions for All Elite doing exactly what they complain WWE does.

    As for it going a long way for people, I understand it, but I don't respect it or agree with it. I hate when I read show reviews and they talk more about who should have won, instead of did they enjoy the show. Too many online fans judge a show based on their expectations or predictions. In the case of this conversation, they expect wrestlers to never leave, or respect the business as much as they do. And that is asinine. I don't judge movies and actors based on how passionate they are about their craft. Sometimes the talented ones are the most passionate (Daniel Day Lewis), but Batista is great in his roles for someone who fell into it. Judging WWE/Goldberg because he isn't working 200+ dates a year is the most immature and ridiculous hypocrisy the online fan can display.

    Think of it this way: if COACH was booking a show in Lethbridge AB as the champ of that promotion, and he could get Goldberg to come to pin him after a single move for $50 and win the title (with a second show booked am onth later for COACH to win it back), why would he say no? Because Goldberg isn't going to work the rest of the year's dates?
    Last edited by PEN15v2; 3 Weeks Ago at 12:59 PM.

  12. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    I largely had my tongue wedged firmly in my cheek there, and think something like that is actually a good use of Roberts (and Anderson etc) to be managers/talkers for other talents. This is apparently a prelude to Brodie Lee debuting, and Roberts managing him is probably a good thing. So, mostly I'm on a little bit of a wind up.

    I do wish people (Powder, you mostly, as nobody else seems to really do it) would stop comparing NXT and AEW. They're both good. Just enjoy them. It's the most tiresome thing to make this into some Nitro vs Raw fanboy bullshit, especially as it's not the 90s and televisions habits/consumptions have changed so you don't have to 'pick a side' to watch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    To be fair, you didn't have to pick a side to watch in the 1990s either. I taped Nitro on Friday nights and caught the WWE whenever I could across the weekend, because it was easier to find. I liked 'em both, through until some time in 1999 at least. Then, by the end of the year I didn't really like either, but in 2000 I started to like WWF again.
    When both shows are on the same day and same time, they are inevitably going to be compared to each other. When I have to pick which one to watch and which one to DVR, I go with what is more interesting, and offers better stories, and less chance of a fast forwarding through the show. Hence the comparisons.

    Also back in the 90s, I would VCR tape either RAW or Nitro and watch it the other one later. Same thing. And both were compared, and yes people chose, but that doesn't mean they did not like or watch the other, but there were choices made. Maybe not in Europe, but definitely in America simply because both shows were on the same night. Hence the 'Monday Night Wars'.

    I am not sure how old anyone is, but I am guessing that based on some of your posts, that most guys here are in their 30s (or younger). Not a knock, just stating that age comes into play. That means that many of you guys were between 5-15 during the 90s, not in your late teens and 20s. Going back on the Network and rewatching RAW and Nitro and saying 'Why compare the shows or companies, as they were separate?" is not the same. During the 90s and the birth of the internet was all about comparisons. Both shows would poke fun of each other, and call each other out on what they were doing. The paid attention. Gilberg? The DX army invading Nitro? Schiavone giving away Foley winning the title? Luger showing up on Nitro? Rude being on both shows on the same night?

    When Nitro came on it changed the game and made both products better because they compared each other to each other. I am just on the fringe where I remember the show MASH, but I still do not see all the hype about it. BUUT, if I wanted to, I could go and watch the entirety of the show on DVD or if I find the right channel. And if you ask my parents or people 10 years+ older than me, they will tell you have amazing it was, and how it was water cooler talk the next day and was THE show to watch. But I just do not get it, and that's ok, because I am a bit too young.

    So the younger posters on here or anywhere for that matter, use the Network to go back and watch, but it will never be the same as living through it, and seeing the comparisons, and watching each show change to try to beat the other. Comparisons.

    AEW calls out the WWE on their broadcasts. Hell even last night, Jericho used Lunatic Fringe in regards to Moxley. The WWE so far has not said anything public about AEW (besides HHH to Billy Gunn at the HOF), but some of their actions direct are resultant of AEW. i.e. Not releasing talent early (best endeavored), signing some people to long(er) term deals than they would prior to AEW, and trademarking anything and everything, Matt hardy being pulled from shows. The comparisons will get more obvious if AEW continues to grow.
    Last edited by Powder; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:32 PM.

  13. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    ), but some of their actions direct are resultant of AEW. i.e. Not releasing talent early (best endeavored), signing some people to long(er) term deals than they would prior to AEW, and trademarking anything and everything, Matt hardy being pulled from shows. The comparisons will get more obvious if AEW continues to grow.
    Any proof to back up these claims?

  14. #454
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    The not releasing talent thing goes back prior to AEW, if you're talking about making people see out their contracts and the whole 'freezing' thing. I think it goes back more than five years, if I remember right.

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    And any claim about offering more money could just as easily be explained by the increase in TV rights fees from international markets and primarily Fox.

    I'm not saying WWE hasn't paid attention to AEW, and I agree they likely have made changes like you've described. But it's far from factual.

  16. #456
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    But it IS tiresome. If you're coming on here after a show to say 'AEW was better' you're also watching the show like that. And then you'll never have as good an experience watching one because you're comparing it to t'other.

    Plus I see a lot of prejudgement for AEW by a certain section of fans. Not on here, but I do feel like for some they could do a 15 minute segment where Hangman burps the alphabet and it would be hailed as groundbreaking and 'better than NXT' even if NXT had a 15 UE vs Oney/Twoey barn burner directly opposite it.

  17. #457
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    For me it's not about age at all, it's about presentation and how much the performer has to offer. Jericho cuts fantastic promos, generally still has good matches, and has a compelling character that interacts with the whole roster week to week. Any old-timer who can say the same (or even has 2 out of 3, to be honest) is good in my book.

  18. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    For me it's not about age at all, it's about presentation and how much the performer has to offer.
    I'd certainly co-sign this. Guys like Thesz, Gagne, Race, Flair, Hogan, to name just a few, all led promotions into their forties and fifties. Presentation is key, and not everyone is going to be able to do it, but age isn't the most important thing.

    Of course, we might disagree when it comes down to the details... as usual!

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  19. #459
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    I think age is just a nice thing to add into any discussion to egg people on. But the true issue is the schedule. Jericho gets a pass because he's been on Dynamite weekly since it debuted. Like I posted above, I get that, but it's still wrong.

  20. #460
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    I can't say I've got a problem with how they use Jericho, but then I don't have a problem with how they use Lesnar, or even Goldberg for that matter. I've gone into the whys and wherefores so many times that I'm not sure it's really worth repeating, but I can see why they feel like they have to go back to these people and once you're going to do that, I don't think you can blame the individuals for taking the money or really be overly critical about the way they've been used. Honestly, once you're going to use Lesnar/Goldberg, I'm not sure there's a better way to do it when you consider all the various factors. Same with Jericho, and from a distance what I can tell about all their use of legends in AEW (where if anything they've got guys who are reportedly under-utilised, if anything).

    I did see the Jake promo because there was a video of it floating around Twitter. Tells you something when it's probably one of the best things I've heard in years and it was still a little disappointing. Just shows you the level of expectation that you build up when it's Jake - still in my top two promos of all time (I kinda go back and forth between him and Dusty depending on my mood).

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  21. #461
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    So to the absolute surprise of nobody... Matt Hardy made his debut tonight. However, he isnít the exalted one. That honor goes to Brodie Lee who also made his debut. Itís cool wrestling shows are still trying to do their thing and put on a show, but both of these debuts lacked everything without any audience there for them to play off of.

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    There's two ways of thinking on that. They could have held off for however long until they can have a live crowd again and get the biggest pop. Or, they do it now, and show that even without the live audience, AEW will do whatever they can do put on a great show for those at home (hoping they keep tuning in once all live sports return).

    I feel they made the right move.
    To have these debuts now I mean. Signing Matt Hardy is still baffling for me. Especially if his debut is in the War Games. The wide margin of agility between Hardy and the rest of the competitors will be staggering.

  23. #463
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    I doubt Hardy was signed because of his physical abilities at this point. He was brought in for character reasons alone and to have another creative mind around the place.

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    I hope you're right, but unless he's BSing everyone, he keeps talking about wrestling for another 2-3 years.

  25. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    I can't say I've got a problem with how they use Jericho, but then I don't have a problem with how they use Lesnar, or even Goldberg for that matter. I've gone into the whys and wherefores so many times that I'm not sure it's really worth repeating, but I can see why they feel like they have to go back to these people and once you're going to do that, I don't think you can blame the individuals for taking the money or really be overly critical about the way they've been used. Honestly, once you're going to use Lesnar/Goldberg, I'm not sure there's a better way to do it when you consider all the various factors. Same with Jericho, and from a distance what I can tell about all their use of legends in AEW (where if anything they've got guys who are reportedly under-utilised, if anything).

    I did see the Jake promo because there was a video of it floating around Twitter. Tells you something when it's probably one of the best things I've heard in years and it was still a little disappointing. Just shows you the level of expectation that you build up when it's Jake - still in my top two promos of all time (I kinda go back and forth between him and Dusty depending on my mood).

    I also have high expectations for Jake but I loved that promo. It was littered with individual quotes that could be studied on their on. Other than whatever he’s had going on with his voice the last many, many years, which Im giving him a pass on, I thought it was a masterpiece. When it comes to psychology he may be the best. He’s may be my favorite promo guy.
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  26. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Button View Post
    . Other than whatever he’s had going on with his voice the last many, many years, which Im giving him a pass on
    I think this is primarily it, to be honest, more than anything he chose to say or not say. As for giving him a pass on it... I mean, I just react. It's not like I'm choosing to be a dick about it! But one of the qualities about Jake historically was not just what he said but the way he said it, and so I guess once that weirdly hypnotic quality is gone, it's going to register. All power to you if you can choose not to worry about that but it's not how I process things. I guess I'm much more instinctive.

    As I say, it was still head and shoulders better than most of what I've heard over the past twenty years, in promo terms. It was only a little disappointing because it's Jake, and he's built up to ridiculous levels in my head.

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  27. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    I hope you're right, but unless he's BSing everyone, he keeps talking about wrestling for another 2-3 years.
    I wasnít meaning that he wonít be wrestling whatsoever. What I was getting at is that whoever brought him in knows it wonít be Ď99/2000 TLC era Hardy, and they are completely fine with that. They want to use him mainly for his character work and ideas while settling for what he can offer in the ring.

  28. #468
    Been enjoying AEW the last couple of weeks. Looks like they’re starting to put together some decent heavyweights. Brodie Lee and Moxley had some good matches in WWE. Could be an interesting feud there if they put it together.
    Last edited by Benjamin Button; 1 Week Ago at 02:20 PM.
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  29. #469
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    What about Wardow? Why isn't he wrestling? He could be a big part of AEW's future. Then add in Lance Archer.

    So the AEW Heavyweight Division could very well be:
    Jericho
    Moxley
    Brodie Lee
    Hager
    Wardlow
    Lance Archer
    And *Gasp* Luchasaurus (He is a heavyweight, but I just do not think he has 'it' besides size)

    The you could also add in:
    Hangman Page
    Omega
    PAC - I know he is not that big, but he wrestles much bigger than he is
    Possibly Scorpio Sky

    I said it before, but it bears repeating, AEW will need some sort of midcard title. I would say that after the Coronavirus and social distancing is over, and fans are allowed back into venues, wait another month or two, hopefully like around the end of the Summer, that AEW should institute a tourney to crown a new midcard champion. What ever AEW's PPV is around that time for the finale.

    Their roster is big enough, and they will be getting some more people (Revival at least) so they can break up a team, like SCU or Best Friends to add to the midcard.

  30. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    What about Wardow? Why isn't he wrestling? He could be a big part of AEW's future. Then add in Lance Archer.
    Wardlow is still pretty green for a nationally televised wrestler, but also his role isn't one that requires or should include a lot of in-ring wrestling.

    He's the muscle of MJF, he shouldn't necessarily be working matches every week, even squash matches. His presence should be enough in a lot of cases.

  31. #471
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    OK, so he is green.

    His match against Cody was pretty good for a green wrestler, but that probably has a big part of Cody making him look good. BUT if he is still green, and I do not think that AEW has anything like the Performance Center, so guys like Wardlow has to get experience by working in the ring. So give him some AEW DARK matches, or legit Dark matches prior to Dynamite, or even some matches against guys like Omega, Page, Pac, Moxley, Daniels, now Lee, Cabana, Hardy, all guys that can make him look good and teach him without him getting clean wins or losses.

    It's the old adage, you can't get experience, with getting experience. Let the guy wrestle.
    Last edited by Powder; 1 Week Ago at 04:15 PM.

  32. #472
    Lots of 40-year-olds debuting lately. Not saying it’s bad or good but a guy like Archer, for example, doesn’t seem to be needed.

  33. #473
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    These 40-year-olds bring some recognition to AEW. But more importantly they bring a lot of experience to the table, especially on the national TV side of things which a lot of AEW's roster doesn't have.

    As long as they're not shoved to the top of the card and holding people back I think they can be a great help to the less-experienced talent in the company.

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    It's a little bit different, as well, than hiring 40 years olds that are objectively a bit 'past it'. Brodie's got a chip on his shoulder and something to prove, as well as having sat out for the best part of 18 months through a combination of injury and not being used. The guy can still go (as his match with Dijakovic last Mania Axxess showed).

    Archer's coming off the best year of his career in and out of ring.

    Hardy is the one you might question, but if they're planning to lean on his mind as much as his body it's far from a bad pick up. Plus (big) if - should Jeff follow when his contract's up you can have a high profile tag reunion and run Hardyz/Bucks. And if he remains in his 'broken' persona you can run the broken universe segments which are pre-taped and will help somewhat protect the quality of the action, plus they're more about the spectacle of it all than the actual wrestling quality.

    I think all three guys have something to offer.

  35. #475
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    Yeah, I think it's the wrong call to look solely at age. If they're physically good to go or even if they're a bit beat up but bring value in the promo/character department, I'll always give them a chance.

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    As an on-screen talent, I see very little reason to bring in Matt Hardy. I hope AEW puts his creative mind to use for the rest of the roster so they get their money's worth.

    Age is a factor, but the big one is time spent. Randy Orton is on one of his best runs of his career, but to many it's still not interesting because we've seen heel Orton in some form in WWE for 17 years now. But if he were to sign with AEW, his age isn't a factor because he's fresh in that environment. Arguably stale in WWE, but fresh in another.

    So all 3 are smart signings for one reason or another.

  37. #477
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    I hope Hardy gets to do his Broken shit, if for no other reason that it can shut him the fuck up about it and we can see if it still has any steam. I have my doubts. It was a fun, novel thing a few years ago, but it feels like that time has passed.

  38. #478
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    I think that Vince might have known what he was talking about with not allowing Matt Hardy to bring back the Broken character. Jericho was as brilliant as ever, but Hardy just was eh.

  39. #479
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    Ugh, it's been one week and I'm already sick of Broken Dynamite.

    WHY does wrestling have to be "fake" just because it's a work? Why does Matt Hardy have to teleport just because they have the ability to do it for television? It's so frustrating. Why would you even pretend that he can do that?

    Matt Hardy can teleport now. Something that would be infinitely helpful trying to win a pro wrestling match, yet he'll never use it in a pro wrestling match.

    I knew a guy who was doing a weird "dark" gimmick a few years ago that used to "teleport" in his promos. I constantly asked him when he was going to use that super power in a match.

    It's stupid as hell, and frustrating to watch.

  40. #480
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    May 2018
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    I can remember when Double or Nothing was going down I was given the hard sell to watch the PPV. I didn't, because having seen the buy-in, I didn't trust them to deliver what I wanted. And there have been times where I've heard good bits about Cody, Jericho, MJF, maybe 1-2 others, where I've thought, yeah, there's maybe bits that I could get on board with. But still, I didn't trust 'em not to end up doing stuff I would hate. And all I can say is it sounds like that was the right call.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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