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Thread: AEW Dynamite

  1. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    Also, the time I came home and caught my GF with a BBC. Apparently size mattered then as well.
    Chill, Rusev. You coordinated that one yourself.


  2. #322
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    Happy PEN15 Day!

  3. #323
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    Who the hell let Virgil have a live mic in 2019? Yeeeeeeeeesh that was a train wreck.


  4. #324
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    And the Goat! They thought a goat would be chill with coming towards thousands of screaming people. If Hager was quick on the draw he would have said, "like Jericho, Jerigoat doesn't like to be held or forced to follow anyone's lead". But he stood there like a meatbag. Fucking Biff.


    Jericho is slaying everything these days. He is saving this 96 WCW throwback.
    Last edited by Kleckamania; 1 Week Ago at 09:15 PM.


  5. #325
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    Quarter thumb on Best Friends winning against Lucha Bros- Is Orange Cassidy a God?


  6. #326
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    Between this and beating Pentagon on Dark, Trent is the Lucha Killer.


  7. #327
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    I'm so surprised that Hager is going by the Bug Hurt these days, and that Frank Thomas has not blocked the nickname.

  8. #328
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    I'd like him more if his nickname were Bug Hurt. I'd be interested in where that character direction was going...


  9. #329
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    I'm finding my main takeaway from AEW right now, pretty regularly, is a reminder of how much I loved Trent? when he was in WWE and why. He's doing some great in ring stuff for me.

  10. #330
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    AEW needs a midcard title. All they have is 1-4 people in the main event scene, and tag teams. Not everyone needs to be in the tag scene.

  11. #331
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    Find myself intrigued by the Blade, the Butcher, and the Bunny, and their attack on Cody.

    Also really enjoyed Jericho. His contributions to this sport are damn near beyond measure.

  12. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    AEW needs a midcard title. All they have is 1-4 people in the main event scene, and tag teams. Not everyone needs to be in the tag scene.
    They'll introduce one in time, I feel sure. I think now might be the wrong time for it given how nascent it still is as a promotion, and realistically if they did have a 'midcard' title they only have a handful of guys who might be in that definition right now, precisely because they have focused on tag wrestling so majorly.

    It would help out someone like MJF, and probably Hangman Page, if there was that alternative belt to challenge for. The other guys I'd have in mind are the likes of Shawn Spears (who...ugh), Havoc, Janela, and Allin. And Janela seems to already have issues with them that might mean he's not featured for a while, from what I've read.

    Also, I want a Havoc/Allin goth tag team. God I'd be all in on that.

    But generally I don't think they quite have enough roster depth to really have a midcard title right now, unless you immediately start to include guys that could work a main event program - Moxley, PAC, Omega, for example.

    I doubt we'll get through 12 months without them introducing the AEW Canadian Destroyer Title or whatever. I'd like to see them do a TV title, personally, defended every week with a 15 minute time limit.

  13. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    I'd like to see them do a TV title, personally, defended every week with a 15 minute time limit.
    One of my first posts when I returned to LOP earlier this year was about ideas for midcard titles. I really really really don't like the idea of just another midcard title. We are so used to them in most promotion, but it makes no sense at all to go working for a title that is lower than the main title and in the same division.

    So TV title, at least changes the division a bit with different rules.

  14. #334
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Midcard titles only really work logically when they are the second best thing you can be in the company. At the risk of sounding nostalgic, the US Champion was always unofficially considered the number one contender to the WCW title, and I remember that main event guys were often in the mix for the IC title. If it's set up that way, it works fine. When it becomes a midcard 'division', no, that's rubbish.

    The only real time you need a midcard title is - if you're big enough - you need a testing ground for the next guy. You can put the title on them both as a signal to the fans that they are coming through, and you can also test out the reaction to that. Y'know, it might seem like a crappy example because of how it ended, but the booking of Ahmed Johnson in 1996 seems perfect to me in this case. Ultimate Warrior and Undertaker were both chasing the belt, proving that it was something to want - then Johnson wins it, back when he was still very popular and they still wanted to make him a big star. Him capturing a title that top-level guys wanted gave him a huge boost (that injury and other things ended up derailing).

    But that's the only reason I can think of that you'd ever need one. In pretty much any other instance you can always come up with other stuff for people to do. If it's just going to be a prop, you might as well not bother. Given that AEW's 'sports based' stuff never really came to fruition and that they don't even really appeal to 'wrestling' fans but appeal more to the 'performance' fans, I imagine that it'd never be more than a prop and you're always going to get at least as much out of running other storylines instead.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  15. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Given that AEW's 'sports based' stuff never really came to fruition and that they don't even really appeal to 'wrestling' fans but appeal more to the 'performance' fans...
    Oh, you're gonna hear it for that one!


    This is why a division needs to be created. I don't mean "midcard division", but some sort of true separation from the World title. ROH had the Pure title at one point, which I loved. The Hardcore title had it's value (and with modifications, could fit in AEW). Impact failed, but at least tried with the Grand Championship.

    But midcard titles that are different from the main title is the best option, in my opinion.

    That said, I don't think they need one. I like the idea that there are more tag teams than singles guys. I might not be an avid fan of the promotion, but tag team wrestling creates such versatility on the show. As mocked as "thrown together" teams can be, it worked that Sammy and Jericho challenged for the title. And now one of the tag champs challenged for the World title. Having people bounce back and forth is similar to how UFC fighters move weight classes.

  16. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    Oh, you're gonna hear it for that one!
    I might. But most of the AEW fans that I take remotely seriously would recognise that they, first and foremost, are in that 'performance' bracket anyway.

    And if anyone tries to argue that a little graphic with wins and losses counts for very much then I'll just know I can safely ignore them, because they aren't going to have a decent point anyway.



    Just back to titles quickly, I'm still probably more in favour of the traditional midcard title if it can be done properly, but all things considered you're probably on better lines for what could work in AEW right now. If they can hit the right notes in a way that TNA never did.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  17. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    I might. But most of the AEW fans that I take remotely seriously would recognise that they, first and foremost, are in that 'performance' bracket anyway.

    And if anyone tries to argue that a little graphic with wins and losses counts for very much then I'll just know I can safely ignore them, because they aren't going to have a decent point anyway.
    I hope they find more true ways to be unique and sports focused. So far, it's been pretty weak. It just feels like WWE with less family focused angles, and more spot wrestling. The execution is different, so it is not just WWE lite, so I don't mean that. But they aren't revolutionary as they claimed, and it's mostly the indy style with a budget.

  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    I hope they find more true ways to be unique and sports focused. So far, it's been pretty weak.
    Can't really make a full judgement based on brief clips here and there but the limited insight I've got from that would tend to back that up. I'm not surprised that it hasn't been the strongest element so far, but given a lot of the people who are involved I wouldn't have much faith that this'll ever happen. It would seem to run counter to the instincts of some of the principal players and even more of the people they've hired.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  19. #339
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    I'm probably unfair, but I feel like I count more missed opportunities, or more misleading hype than I do count the positives and what they've actually delivered.

    NWA told me it would be unique, so I tuned in, and it was.
    MLW told me it would be unique, so I tuned in, and it was.
    AEW told me it would be unique, so I tuned in, and it hasn't really been. And the unique factors don't really matter to me. I can't stress enough how easy it is to find good in ring wrestling of any type. So for me it comes down to storytelling, and in that regard, AEW just doesn't have their hooks into me. The biggest feud has been this Omega vs Moxley thing, and it failed to do anything but have guys attack each other without reason, and then a brawl to end it all.

    It's been very disappointing form the beginning. Before I watched Double or Nothing, I hoped it would be special and stand out, and be a new favorite show. It came at the right time, as WWE started off 2019 with some of its worst TV and stories I can remember. So I wanted something to grab me.

    But it was blah.

    So I told myself "maybe it was just one show", and tuned in for the next one. And it was blah. so was the next.

    So I told myself the TV product is the real difference maker. Maybe they'll knock it out of the park there. And honestly, if it wasn't for NXT also growing simultaneously, I might have bought more into AEW. But Dynamite is in no way a bad show. It's just not special or unique. And compared to NXT, it pales in comparison to my tastes. The only positives I can think of about AEW over NXT is the crowd size (which doesn't really matter to me) and Jon Moxley. But Jon is essentially a sped up version of what Tommasso Ciampa is doing. They aren't identical, but what I like about Moxley, I'm getting out of Ciampa.

    I dunno. I feel disappointed.

  20. #340
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    I agree with Pen - there's not much that AEW is doing to present itself as different, other than saying 'look at us, we're different!' like how goths used to want to say they were different to townies but in reality they both just hung around the park with bottles of White Lightning and the only difference was in the clothes they wore.

    There are really little things I like about AEW - and they probably are the things that are noticeably a bit different. Stuff like the sweeping crowd shots at the start of shows, they're very 90s (AEW is very 90s anyway, but regardless) but I don't think other companies do them. I like the duel entrance gates on the stage.

    But aside from those little things, really all Dynamite is so far is A.N. Other wrestling show when you compare it to WWE TV. With something like the MLW or NWA shows, they feel different - the NWA one especially is shot in a way to make it stand out, and the MLW product feels alive due to how they film it.

    AEW Dynamite just has a kind of generic, homogenised feel to it.

    It might be that it's an issue of going straight to the 'big leagues'. They're in arenas right off the bat, and there are only so many ways they can shoot an arena show, I suppose. The alternatives are shot much smaller. And hey, even something like NXT is finding new things to do to mark it out, like having Queen Cathy on her little balcony for announcements, or Regal do things up there like announcing the WHOAGAMES matches.

    I think they need to be a bit more innovative in how they shoot things in the arena. Maybe that will come with time. But right now it's just Raw with a different stage and a bit more blood.

  21. #341
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    It's funny you mention the 1990s, because some of the clips I've seen have more of a 'bad period of Nitro' vibe to them rather than RAW. In terms of how it's shot and the feel, I mean.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  22. #342
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    I mean, I think that's it - the whole feel of it, from those opening crowd shots, just reminds me of the same things on 97-99 Nitro (and Raw, actually). And you add JR and Schiavone talking over the top of it and you really are right back to that feel from the opening gate.

  23. #343
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    There's an audience for this. And that's the mindset I go into any wrestling show, that even if I don't enjoy, I can recognize others will like it. That's why I attempt to never say it's horrible, or phrase my negativity in the sense that these segments don't hold value. My argument is more about the long term stability with the Dynamite direction. I've seen an increase of online fans turning against it (same with NXT), in typical internet fickle fan fashion. What wowed certain fans at one point has already grown tired. This isn't to say most fans feel this way, it's still a very small minority. But it's an opinion I've seen growing.

  24. #344
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    My fear is that AEW does not have a big enough roster to warrant long term planning. They only have, what?, 3-4 main event players in Jericho, Cody, Omega, Moxley and Pac. And now that Cody cannot ever challenge for the title, there is only 4. Not great. Also, the rest of the roster is primarily tag Teams, with a few solo acts in MJF, Darby Allin, and????

    And for NXT, I fea that Vince is going to make it more like RAW and Smackdown.

  25. #345
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    I think you're undervaluing how tag wrestlers can be used in the main event. I haven't watched last week's Dynamite, but it seems like Scorpio Sky carried himself really well, and it created a good atmosphere. It is very easy for a tag wrestler to move into a singles spot. And even if it's WWE, New Day have shown how that can happen without breaking up the team.

    Plus, Page won't be far out of that top of the roster list. His apparent self removal from the Elite indicates he might feud with one of them at some point, and he could become main event easily in that case. MJF will likely be in that category soon as well.

  26. #346
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    They still need a midcard title for guys like MJF, Page, Allin, Sky, and other tag team guys, like Trent?.

  27. #347
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    Like I said, I think they need to take their time to do that. NXT (to take an example) didn't get a midcard title until 6 years after it started.

    There's plenty of legs in that roster to develop without a midcard title. I think people place too much emphasis on the worth of titles in the modern wrestling environment, anyway. Nobody really cares if you're the best of the second tier of wrestlers on a show - they only care about the very best ones. The US title could die tomorrow and it wouldn't make a spit of difference to who's feuding with who. More often than not, the title just becomes a lazy storytelling device that makes creative(s) think they don't need to do anything more to expand/improve a storyline than have the title be defended/challenged for.

  28. #348
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    If the roster is too small for long term planning, it's definitely too small for a midcard title.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  29. #349
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    That is because the WWE has let their midcard titles go to waste. The IC title used to be the second guy on the roster.

    I believe that AEW wants to bring stuff like that back, so if/when they have a midcard title, they will use it that way.

  30. #350
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    The AEW stuff that attracts me most, and best defines the good way that AEW feels different than other products, so far has mostly surrounded Cody. The more they trend towards the kind of storytelling and feuding he's done, as opposed to the Moxley/Omga stuff, the happier I'll be.

  31. #351
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    100% mizfan. Omega vs Mox was stupid. If WWE put that angle on Tv, it would be lambasted as poor storytelling. Heck, Rusev vs Lashley was promoted as a Last Man Standing for Starrcade this past weekend, and people were saying "they haven't even had a regular singles match, but they're already blowing the feud with Last Man Standing!?!?!?!"

  32. #352
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    They wanna be careful with Moxley. He came in super hot and I'm willing to bet that plenty outside their bubble were interested, but they can't take that for granted and there's already been a bunch of missteps there. And for that matter Omega seems to have cooled off a lot from when this whole thing started, too. Back then it was very clearly, 'oh yeah, he'll be the star down the line'... now the thought of that is just 'oh man, really?' I dunno if it's because he's lost the high profile ones and hasn't won a match in less than ten minutes (so I hear anyway), or if it's just that when a lot of people saw him for the first time after hearing he was the best wrestler in the world they said 'fuck off, this goofball?!' but whatever the reason, it certainly seems to have happened.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  33. #353
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    My impression is Moxley hasn't really been hurt (though I could be wrong) but Omega has definitely fallen in the minds of fans, and I don't think it has anything to do with him winning or losing matches. He got famous for having extremely long matches with other super-workers, and without much option to do that I think it's showing what he lacks in other areas. I was always told Omega was a great storyteller due to subtle callbacks in his match or some such thing, but personally I've never seen it. At this point I honestly prefer the Bucks to Omega, I'm not really a Bucks fan but the way they elevated Private Party alone eclipses anything Omega has done in my eyes.

  34. #354
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    Oh, in case that was misinterpreted, I'm not suggesting Moxley has been hurt yet. Just that no one can withstand continual missteps.

    As for Omega, I don't know what really is to blame. The idea that they haven't treated him like a huge star and have maybe trusted to reputation seemed like a possible explanation, and it'd certainly not surprise me if that backfired. But as for the reasons, it's pure speculation.

    The only real negative stuff I've seen has related to overacting and weak-looking offence, but I don't know how widespread that is.

    No comment on the Bucks - not seen it, not seen much comment one way or the other about their being elevated, don't have much to add.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  35. #355
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    Cody is one of the best promos in the business right now. I wonder how much Vince is kicking himself that he never allowed Cody to show his personality.

    Also, if Vince ever let Cody evolve, there would never be an AEW.
    Last edited by Powder; 5 Hours Ago at 09:17 AM.

  36. #356
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    Gotta come to you guys to see whether this is a widespread thing, but saw another outlet report that last night was a, quote, "truly dismal" episode of AEW Dynamite.

    How'd it play with everyone here?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  37. #357
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    I haven't finished it, but it seemed fine so far. Average for AEW, where the matches are forgettable, but there are exciting spotty choreographed moments, and decent storytelling. Nothing ground breaking, but acceptable. An improvement over last week

  38. #358
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    There was nothing special about it except Cody showing the world how to cut meaningful, emotional promos.

    The Dark Order stuff is weird and not in a good way.

    Jericho is still taking shots at his WWE past.

    Brandi and Kong’s stuff is more WTF, rather than what they are trying to be.

    I am still a supporter, but I am losing faith that they can consistently put out a good product. NXT is making strides forward, and everything not Cody is tough.

    And as Pen said, the matches are forgettable.
    Last edited by Powder; 3 Hours Ago at 11:55 AM.

  39. #359
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    I mean, it's hard to sustain that initial rush. They spent the first few weeks almost galloping through high profile stuff and naturally they're now having to slow down a little. I don't think Dynamite is particularly suffering or benefiting from that, but ultimately less is happening.

    It's the complain that you hear most often about Raw - nothing happens for a lot of the screen time. When there's a Raw where things happen, people hold it up as an example of WWE still being able to 'do' it. Dynamite will likely be the same.

  40. #360
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    But m not complaining in any way about building characters or feuds as Dynamite was trying to do that. But Brandi and the Dark Order? Not good.

    MJF not being on TV to even blow off Cody. Why?

    Marco stunt, needs to go away. Then The “punches” thrown between Luchasaurus and Hager were absolutely terrible and looked as fake as you can get. And if LS is still hurt and can’t wrestle yet, why is AEW building a feud between then at the same time as Mosley.

    At least in NXT, they are addressing the fact that Baylor, Lee and Ciampa all have legit beef with Cole and are making a triple threat to address th situation.

    Also Jericho’s Lexicon is just his list and it was a callback to his 1004 holds list where everyone was an arm at as every other name was Mosley.

    Rehashing for the sake of it.
    Last edited by Powder; 3 Hours Ago at 12:08 PM.

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