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Thread: AEW Dynamite

  1. #401
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Nothing on Dynamite from last week huh? Surprises me because other than the women's title match (which had plenty of pretty crappy looking videos circulating on Twitter afterwards) the reviews of last week suggest that the show was... pretty decent. Heard it called one of the best so far.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  2. #402
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    Guess it all got wrapped up in other AEW threads! But yes, it was a really excellent episode. The women's match was one of my favorite thing on the show!

  3. #403
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    I suppose I shouldn't try and judge a match based on the clips I come across on Twitter, to be fair. I'll limit myself to saying that in that context and with my expectations of wrestling, it didn't really inspire me to give them a deeper look.

    But I guess if you liked that, then with positive reports elsewhere it'll be mostly (if not all) good news to you this past week.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  4. #404
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    Really looking forward to Cody vs. Wardlow and Moxley vs. Cobb tomorrow. Really hope they bring in Cobb for keeps, seems like he'd be a great get for them on multiple levels.

  5. #405

  6. #406
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    God yes. Give me those fat blue bars over chain link!

  7. #407
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    I doubt it. Cody has been more into the WCW nostalgia, so unless it's a Chamber of Horror dome, it'll likely be a chain link.

  8. #408
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    I know JR has been very vocal about not liking the big blue cage in the past, so if the majority view of the people with input in AEW is the same then I doubt they'll be going down that route.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  9. #409
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    I don't understand why. It's far cheaper to rent, but if I ever had one built I'd probably go with a version of the blue bars. The vision is better through it, and yes it doesn't have the same give as a chain link but that's not a big deal.

  10. #410
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    From what I remember, it sounded like he basically associated it with the 'escape the cage' matches in the WWF, and he didn't really like the whole idea of them.

    Personally, I always liked the big blue. I'm sure it's partly nostalgia, but you can see better on the one hand and once the novelty of the 'Hell in a Cell' has worn off the solidity of the cage ends up lending it a certain something.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  11. #411
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    I also like the visual of slamming a guy's head into a solid bar as opposed to a wobbly cage. Plus it seems much easier to do climbing or hanging spots which adds a unique element.

    It's a long shot though. Guess we'll find out tonight!

  12. #412
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    Some twitter account showed the cage. It's chain link, but from that picture it seemed like you saw through it really well.

  13. #413
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    Yeah, I saw that. It looks nice. They clearly put a lot of money into it. I like that it goes all the way to the floor and doesn't sit on the apron.

  14. #414
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    Seems like a very, very divisive episode of Dynamite last night. Based on Twitter (which does tend to prompt responses at the extremes) it's either their best show or still full of the drizzling shits, depending on which end of the wrestling spectrum you're at.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  15. #415
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    I only saw the cage match. I haven't been watching week-to-week and honestly don't trust giving up two hours of my time, so I pick and choose the segments to watch.

    In terms of the structure of the cage, seeing it in action I don't love it just because it seems like an accident waiting to happen with the way you can fall between the fence and apron to the floor. It's a first run, though, so I'm sure some issues will be tweaked.

    I really enjoyed the match. It was everything that it needed to be. I wouldn't have been opposed to Wardlow getting a win, just because it keeps him the unstoppable monster in MJF's corner, and Cody doesn't really lose anything. But that's minor, they did what they did really well.

    I'd like them to stop bumping MJF for no reason. Between the pointless cage door spot and Arn tossing him over the barricade like a brone, I just don't want to see him made a fool before the PPV.

  16. #416
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    I didn't see anything negative about the cage match. The videos that the critical people were circulating - and I reckon you can predict it already because there's no real change - related to the tag battle royal and the women's match. Less significant but still in the mix was the other tag match. The main ones I remember were everyone (and I mean everyone) stood around waiting to catch a guy in the battle royal, and then the women visibly missing each other by a good 8-10 inches with their offence.

    Looking down the list of results I guess that means Moxley/Cobb and the cage match got a clean bill of health.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  17. #417
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    People are slowly turning on some of this stuff. It's one thing when you see it live or at a PWG show once a month or at your local indy once a month. It's another when it's every week and it's seemingly being done in a way to say "everything else might have been sloppy or lazy, but look at that dive!"

    10 people standing there with their thumbs up their asses to catch a guy, or missing offense by a mile isn't going to be treated nicely.

  18. #418
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    It wasn’t the blue bars, but I did think the cage was very visually impressive. It looked ridiculously tall and I liked the idea of the wall going all the way to the floor, even if they may need to figure out a way to secure it a little better in the future.

    If there is division on last night’s episode, I haven’t seen it. I thought it was possibly even better than last week, which I already thought was a new top standard for the company.

    The Cody/Wardlow cage match is, quite frankly, my new favorite match of the year. Cody bleeding buckets and making Wardlow look great, like a real star, and for Wardlow’s part he really stepped up. He was mauling Cody at points, throwing him around in a way that really made him look like a monster. I had no issue with MJF getting bumped a few times, I just don’t think he’s the kind of heel that has to look unstoppable at all times. His interactions with Arn have been pure gold, including all the references back to Arn’s issues with the Rhodes family in the past. Super glad that Brandi is involved again too, this is a great place for her. When it looked like MJF might hit her only for Arn to chuck him into the crowd, MAN, great moment in my opinion. Cody’s final moonsalut dropped my jaw, and I loved that they presented it as a big killer move instead of just a random big spot.

    Really enjoyed the battle royal, personally, though even I thought the spot right at the beginning where everyone stood around for the diving spot was a bit much. BUT they also played off that pretty well by following it right up where it seemed like it was going to happen again, only for the crowd to catch the jumper and toss him straight out, so at worst they bothered to lampshade it a bit. That was the only minor complaint I had with it, the structure of it was excellent and I think they built up Matt Jackson overcoming the odds at the end about as well as they could have, complete with that MURDEROUS superkick to Guevara on the level of the famous Shelton/HBK spot of many, many years ago.

    Can’t say I really noticed anything amiss in the women’s match in terms of offense. I’m not the first to catch onto that stuff, I know, but it didn’t seem to have any effect on the live crowd. Big pop for Statlander coming out later to tease a match with Nyla.

    Moxley/Cobb was great, and I sure hope they keep Cobb around full time. Seems like they see something in the guy as they presented him well and really let him throw around one of their most protected guys. Mox winning through cunning and good timing worked really well too. Never would have guessed I’d be this hyped for a Moxley/Jericho match.

    The tag title match was probably my least favorite on the show but it was clearly there to appease the workrate crowd, which is smart on their part, and honestly I still liked it a lot even though I’m not as into the style. I thought it worked well for three reason, 1. Fenix is really gifted above and beyond physically and has that Mysterio ’96 factor where you never know what crazy thing he’s going to pull off next even in a land of people who pull off crazy things, 2. They kept a story element at the forefront with Page and Omega working to stay on the same page to keep their titles, and 3. They didn’t overdo it on the nearfalls and actually had me biting a few times despite being pretty confident of the result going in. I expect this will be the favorite match with a certain crowd of fans so I can’t fault AEW for delivering it and doing a good job of it at that.

  19. #419
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    You not seeing the division probably says something about the different make-upof our follows, because I only saw negative stuff until Sam and Imp started chiming in this morning (who were gushing about it, hence the initial comment highlighting that some had called it their best show).

    But to confirm, I saw plenty of comments that were not complimentary. And conversely, I probably saw this because there are probably a good number of pro-AEW accounts caught in my muting of whole streams of crap I don't want to see, and the purveyors of it I don't want to hear from.


    Now they are sorting out the show structure, we may be entering the period where some of the indy style stuff is really getting tested. If the audience doesn't grow now then it's hard to imagine where else to look.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  20. #420
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    What I took out of the tag match, was the Luchasaurus is really big and muscular, but still cannot hit basic moves or spots. The butcher is a big hoss, and looked impressive throughout the match, playing off that he was the biggest guy in the match.

    Yes, the crowd popped for the Luchasaurus/Butcher stare down and face off, but was that the AEW faithful cheering for their guys, or the Big Guy vs Big Guy stare down in every battle royal?

    Again, I am sorry for sounding like a broken record, but Luchasaurus is getting more and more exposed, and not in a good way.

    AEW is getting better with their character deveolpment and feuds, and theur matches are not only spot fests now, but they have some bad wrestlers on their roster.

  21. #421
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    I thought this week's show was balanced really well from top to bottom. I enjoyed pretty much everything. I was expecting the battle royal to be a huge clusterfuck as they often are, but it was put together well and had a lot of good memorable moments. Sammy Guevara eating that superkick in the post-match action got an audible "Holy Shit!" moment from me. The only thing I personally didn't like in that match was the fact that Strong Hearts were there and outside of that short bit of offense with CIMA and the Dark Order thing at the end, the commentators didn't really mention them at all. I don't even think T-Hawk's name was mentioned a single time. Give me more Strong Hearts on AEW, dammit!

    I didn't think the women's match was bad as some people are making it out to be. It was good for what it was. Shanna and Statlander are two of my favorites in the division right now, and I'd like to see them on a more regular basis.

    The cage match was awesome. I wasn't expecting much given Wardlow's inexperience and the chance for too much outside shenanigans, but it was put together really great. Wardlow looked like a beast, and Cody led him through like a general. It was just overall goodness.

  22. #422
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    Hear hear for more Strong Hearts! I'm hoping the CIMA/Dark Order interaction will, in some form or another, lead them to being featured more.

    I swear Powder, I can't for the life of me figure out what you're seeing with Luchasaurus. He looks consistently very good to me, and he always gets good pops so at the minimum the AEW fanbase doesn't seem to have a problem with him.

  23. #423
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    Shall I watch a Luchasaurus match and 'no bullshit review' it, to settle this once and for all?!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  24. #424
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    As if you'd willingly watch a wrestling match!

  25. #425
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    Ah, I see you've cut me off before I could mention my 'watching AEW' fee.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  26. #426
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    Caught up on a bit more Dynamite this weekend. Storytelling really can be their strong suit. I was very impressed with the Pac vignettes, the Adam Page stuff, and anything Cody/MJF. Sadly, I don't feel as impressed as most about Jericho/Inner Circle. It feel so very standard. Maybe AEw have set a bar too high for the storytelling around the main event, but this feels paint by numbers despite the great talent involved.

  27. #427
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    I've been liking the Jericho/Moxley stuff but I do think the Inner Circle angle was at it's strongest when opposing Cody and the Elite. I hope they come back around to that later in the year, felt like they were gearing up for some kind of War Games variation and I think they'd knock that out of the park.

  28. #428
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    Chuck Taylor needs to get into better shape. He obviously can go in the ring, but he has a Dad-bod at 33.

  29. #429
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    Man, I hate Ironman matches going into overtime. Absolutely hate them. Just let it be a draw, or let whoever you want to win win in the allotted time. Nobody gains anything by going into overtime, it's still a loss for PAC and a win for Omega, so just finish it off in the 30.

  30. #430
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    Let me state that I thought Iron Man match was fun to watch, as both guys laid it all out there.

    BUT...the outcome and the match showed what is wrong in professional wrestling today.

    PAC hit all of these moves on Omega, and yet he still got up and won:

    A tornado DDT on the floor
    A shooting Star press through a table on the floor off the top rope
    An avalanche Brain Buster from the top rope
    2 chair shots to Omega's head
    A Black Arrow
    A Falcon Arrow from the apron onto the floor
    A reverse hurricanrana where Omege landed on his head (again not sure of the name)
    AND having Omega locked into the Brutalizer for literally about 3.5 minutes

    All of this was in less than 20 minutes, as none happened in the first 10.
    Last edited by Powder; 02-27-2020 at 09:07 AM.

  31. #431
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    I hate what you're describing so much. It's weird because this was likely started by WWE when they'd have kickouts to deadly finishers once a year in only the main event of WrestleMania (Tombstone, SuperKicks...etc.) Then ROH and other indy shows made it common on any PPV. Now we're at a point where it's on TV weekly on Dynamite, and often on NXT. I have no idea what the future holds, but I watch a WWF match from 1986, Adorable Adrian Adonis vs a jobber, and Adonis wins with a splash from the 2nd turnbuckle.

    I get why AEW and NXT do these things, to show "hey, we aren't your grandparents wrestling like WWE", but I also wonder if that's part of why wrestling's audience has dwindled (not the main reason, WWE's booking from 2001-present has more to do with that).

    Is this style something cribbed from Mexico or Japan? Or somewhere else I haven't considered?

  32. #432
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    Always a chance I'm mistaken but there's a good chance the real inspiration for it is 1990s All Japan. They weren't quite so bad at it, but it's like so many things - the people who can get away with it do it, and then it's imitated by people who if they even dream of doing it should wake up and apologise.

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  33. #433
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    Didn't Jake Roberts come out recently and say that the DDT has been trivialized, now that almost everyone uses one and they are almost always kicked out of now?

    That trivializes finishing moves. Keep finishers as sacred.

    The Dudley Boys had it right, in that they protected the Dudley Death Drop, that I think it has only been kicked out of twice, once in Japan, and once in TNA.

    Speaking of which, I think there are only a few finishers that have never been kicked out of:

    The Razor's Edge in the WWF (as performed by Razor, b/c the Celtic Cross has been)
    The Bonzai Drop
    The Red/Black Arrow
    The Shatter Machine
    End of Days (surprisingly)

    If we want to include the young AEW, then the Judas Effect, and Moxley's DDT (Death Rider/Paradigm Shift) but it was kicked out of in the WWE)
    Last edited by Powder; 02-27-2020 at 10:22 AM.

  34. #434
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    With the DDT it probably happened 20 years ago. I remember during the Attitude Era a few midcard guys still used it as a finish but amongst top guys it was just a transition move.

    But yeah, the principle is spot on. Finishers don't mean a lot if they don't, y'know, finish. But it isn't just about finishers, it's about high spots that should end matches being used for false finishes.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  35. #435
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    Yes, the ridiculous high spots should also be finishing moves. Why can't someone have a variety of finishing moves? Why does it have to be 1 finisher, and a submission move?

    For instance, a top rope moonsault should always be a finisher, not a transition move. Daniel's BME, or Charlotte's top rope moonsault each look awesome and much more damaging than Morrison's Starship Pain.

    If a guy like PAC can perform a Shooting Star Press, a Back Arrow, and an Avalanche Brain Buster, then they all should be finishers to go along with his Brutalizer, not just moves in a match.
    Last edited by Powder; 02-27-2020 at 10:44 AM.

  36. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Let me state that I thought Iron Man match was fun to watch, as both guys laid it all out there.

    BUT...the outcome and the match showed what is wrong in professional wrestling today.

    PAC hit all of these moves on Omega, and yet he still got up and won:

    A tornado DDT on the floor
    A shooting Star press through a table on the floor off the top rope
    An avalanche Brain Buster from the top rope
    2 chair shots to Omega's head
    A Black Arrow
    A Falcon Arrow from the apron onto the floor
    A reverse hurricanrana where Omege landed on his head (again not sure of the name)
    AND having Omega locked into the Brutalizer for literally about 3.5 minutes

    All of this was in less than 20 minutes, as none happened in the first 10.
    That sounds terrible. This week's show will probably be a skip for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    I hate what you're describing so much. It's weird because this was likely started by WWE when they'd have kickouts to deadly finishers once a year in only the main event of WrestleMania (Tombstone, SuperKicks...etc.) Then ROH and other indy shows made it common on any PPV. Now we're at a point where it's on TV weekly on Dynamite, and often on NXT. I have no idea what the future holds, but I watch a WWF match from 1986, Adorable Adrian Adonis vs a jobber, and Adonis wins with a splash from the 2nd turnbuckle.

    I get why AEW and NXT do these things, to show "hey, we aren't your grandparents wrestling like WWE", but I also wonder if that's part of why wrestling's audience has dwindled (not the main reason, WWE's booking from 2001-present has more to do with that).

    Is this style something cribbed from Mexico or Japan? Or somewhere else I haven't considered?
    A lot of it is Japan. When it wasn't "cool" to like or imitate US wrestling a lot of wrestlers started stealing from Japan and that has expanded to the style of match.

    What's unfortunate is that when you watch a Japanese show, yes the main event is a match where they typically hit everyone with everything (and even that's starting to get a lot of pushback from fans) but a random undercard match will be hard hitting, but without spamming every move that they've ever learned.

  37. #437
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    Japan also had that kind of build to moves whereby if one finisher was kicked out of there's be a 'super finisher' or something.

    Misawa had the Emerald Flowsion, for example, or the Tiger Driver 91. Kobashi had the Burning Hammer, which was only used something like 7 times.

    Even those, though, have been slightly bastardised into other versions - I've seen Cena use the Flowsion, Tyler Bate uses the Tiger Driver (both of these were in slightly safer variations), while the Burning Hammer was, I think, Tyler Reks' finisher for a while and has been used midmatch by some I feel sure.

    I can't remember where I said it, but it does seem like there is an 'evolution' in wrestling moves where what were once finishers, and deadly finshers, shift into being signature and then just standard moves as time goes on.

  38. #438
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    In the WWE, I think we can pinpoint the moment that repeatedly kicking out of finishers to HBK vs the Undertaker at Wrestlemania 25. That was the first match that i can remember where both guys kicked out of each other's finisher repeatedly. Taker kicked out of numerous superkicks, and HBK kicked out of at a tombstone, a last ride and a choke slam, only to later not kick out of a second tombstone.

    After WM25 and this match, then their rematch at WM26, had even more of the same, with each guy kicking out of numerous finishing moves. Don't even get started on the HHH vs Taker HIAC amount of kickouts.

  39. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    Japan also had that kind of build to moves whereby if one finisher was kicked out of there's be a 'super finisher' or something.
    See, this is a big thing. A "finishing move" in Japan is also not treated like an immediate "lights out, count to 20" like it often is in the US. It's the move that they finish the most of their matches with and it's their "best move" but it's not necessarily an instant kill.

    That's why you'll regularly see Okada, for example, hit two or three Rainmakers in a row at the conclusion of the match in order to put a guy down.

    It's also treated different in big matches there, which makes a level of sense. If this is one of the biggest fights of your career, you're going to find that something extra to kick out one more time. That's pretty common in all sports, you play that much harder when it's the biggest game.

    BUT, now think about this. If you're a wrestler that claims to be a fan of New Japan but all you ever watch are the big shows (and you're missing out) you're seeing cards where every match past the multi-man tags is a "big" match, so every match is one of those matches wrestled that much harder. It's pretty easy to then start believing that every match on every card needs to be the biggest main event of your life.

    Watch a random NJPW tour show on World and it's not that style at all. The main might have a few extra kickouts, but it's very much not that finisher spam main event style.

  40. #440
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    Yeah, I can get that. If you only ever watch (say) the Dome show, you only get that 'big Japanese match' thing.

    I think, as well, it's become that kind of frustrating thing in the US because they've started to treat (at the very least) every PPV/Special Event/Takeover like it's one of the major shows and needs a main event with all these finisher reversals, kick outs and so on.

    It's kind of why I like watching Shayna or Dream matches more than Cole/Gargano/Ciampa and so on. They're not really in that style, more often than not, and I feel like that makes them more engaging and work better as matches, particularly in the world of NXT.

    And I also think there's a good way to do that sort of style and a bad way to do it. I found Dijakovic vs Lee on the last Takeover balanced it just about right (possibly a little too much into the finisher end of things) - and Dijakovic popping up out of that powerbomb, powering through the pain, but still selling the neck, popped me a lot. Whereas Cole/Ciampa was the very worst of it.

    It's like those Richards/Edwards matches that turned me off of RoH in 2011, where Richards is out there giving Dragon Suplex to Edwards on the apron, or Edwards is hitting super Hurricanranas or multiple powerbombs and they're not the finish of the match. I hated those matches so so much, and it's something I've felt with Cole throughout his career that his style is really heavily influenced by that period in time. I don't know whether that's true, but it's fucking brutal when he's at his worst. I'd hoped WWE might reign it in (which I thought they'd done with Gargano for a while) but...nope. If anything Cole has made Gargano and Ciampa regress in their matches together.

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