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  1. #1
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    Will the supply of wrestling product outweigh the demand eventually?

    Im asking this because when i was growing up, I only was able to see WWF and WCW. I knew about ECW late and then when WCW folded, all I had was WWE for awhile. Wasnt a guy tape trading for Japan or Lucha...

    Then when i got the internet little over 10 years ago and before that, I discovered ROH bought dvds, youtube, forums made me branch out to other things like japan and lucha...

    All to say that now you can find pretty much everything, its all accessible and with AEW now on national tv, NWA on youtube , all the WWE shows, any lucha show can be found. New Japan is expanding into the states and thats what brought this up. I cant watch everything, I have other interests but I could find everything. The people going to these shows, is their going to be a breaking point? I feel like the audience is dedicated but smaller and I dont know if all the promotions can thrive being so splintered so to speak

  2. #2
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I've had the same thought. My instinct is no, something has got to give, and maybe even sooner rather than later. But I don't know, that's just a feeling.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  3. #3
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    I actively have started to limit myself from watching wrestling now. So while I hear great things about NXT, AEW and so on, I stop myself from watching them on a weekly basis. If I get wind of something incredible, I may view that particular bit, but as a regular thing, I watch exclusively:

    WWE PPVs and big episodes of Raw/Smackdown (think anniversary shows or post-WM shows)
    NJPW Wrestle Kingdom and Dominion, plus the G1 sometimes

    For the rest, I depend on news stories, social media and word of mouth. I can't take in 10 hours of weekly programming, plus monthly events. Just not possible.


    I've tried taking up column writing, check it out here!

    Words from a Gooner #2: 7 Treatments for Wrestlemania Fever

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    I think we're getting close to a tipping point. Wrestling really isn't in this "boom" that some people believe that it is. Hardcore fans just seem willing to spend more time and money than ever before on a variety of pro wrestling products.

    I think we're already seeing more people becoming like Gooner. AEW is selling out arenas weekly so far, but Death Before Dishonor drew about 700 live fans.

    I think there's a lot more picking and choosing already happening, and it's only going to get worse as more content finds a home.

    Truthfully, I watch very little other than wrestling. My girlfriend and I are both wrestlers, neither of us watches a lot of TV, and that's the majority of what winds up on TV when we have some down time.

    But I truthfully cannot imagine someone who's not my situation and still has a healthy social life doing the same.

    Now, what the current situation is doing, I believe, is cultivating the next generation of people who will become fixated on wrestling. I think back to when I was 10/11/12 and I'd watch WCW and WWF. But then one Saturday morning I discovered my local indy on TV. And then ECW got the TNN deal and I'd catch that from time to time. Then I started seeking out wrestling.

    There's enough wrestling content out there, available in so many different ways, for a young wrestling fan to be able to discover a wide variety of wrestling exists.

    But at the end of the day, I think what will ultimately happen is that either some companies will collapse in the wake of "too much content" and people really getting choosey, or companies will settle into their niches, fans will start to pick their preferred products, and they'll be sustainable but nothing other than WWE and possibly AEW will be "big time".

  5. #5
    Transgender Terror
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    Iken is a wrestler?

    I haven't watched a full show of anything in ages. Just clips here and there.

  6. #6
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    The free market will provide. If the supply ever outgrows the demand, then the weakest option will fall.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    I'd actually probably go and see a wrestling show, regardless of promotion, as I live in Newcastle, UK. The WWE tour twice a year so I try to catch it. There was a promotion called WCPW (then later known as Defiant) that had regular shows in Newcastle and I went to some of them.

    Live events and TV are different beasts, it's the TV content I simply can't keep up on.


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    Words from a Gooner #2: 7 Treatments for Wrestlemania Fever

  8. #8
    The Brain
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    I do think it'll even out eventually, because right now there are so many options that I think it'll be hard to maintain them all for multiple reasons. I'm betting we'll see a lot of promotions come out better than they were before we started all this though. At least, I'm hoping that's the case!

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the fact that Lucha Underground helped spark all this but went off the rails just before demand for wrestling content seemed to really balloon is just heartbreaking for me.

  9. #9
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    When i posed the question, it was more in regards of their being enough fans to support all the wrestling content. Some would say ROH and Impact are struggling not because the fans aren't there but because their brand is damaged almost beyond repair. So are promotions getting less support cause of of brand perception or is it because there's too MANY promotions that don't have that stink on them? WWE is a different beast altogether but AEW has positive buzz, NWA people like even if its on a small scale. MLW same thing.

    There is alot of wrestling content to keep up with and I struggle with that But I don't feel burnt out on wrestling probably because I don't watch everything.

  10. #10
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    If we take into account, the 7 hours of TV that the WWE produces weekly, plus the 2 hours of AEW's TV, that is completely saturating the market. There will be a slowing down very soon. RAW and Smackdown just had a draft and a "reorganization" and FOX is promoting the hell out of Smackdown. AEW is still new, but there is a point when the same ol same ol is likely to happen.

    Although it is entirely possible that AEW will become real competition to the WWE, and it is still too early to tell. If AEW does become the new WCW to the WWF/E, then we could experience a new boom. Both promotions want to succeed, and if one is continually outdoing the other, then I can see the product evolving again, like the WWF did with the Attitude Era. Now I am not saying that we will get AEv2, but something will have to change.

    4 weeks in, is not a big enough sample size, but 6 months or more from today in today's world of potentially AEW winning, could and should force Vince to make some real changes like he did in 1997.

    If both promotions push each other, then we can see another boom, but if one promotion or the other does not see the other as a threat, then eventually the tipping point will be hit.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    Some would say ROH and Impact are struggling not because the fans aren't there but because their brand is damaged almost beyond repair.
    In what way is ROH's brand damaged? They're still putting on consistently good shows, and still consistently one of the only touring companies that can provide full time work to pro wrestlers, which means they're making money.

    I'm not sure that a damaged brand can do that much harm in pro wrestling, to be honest. You might never tune in to Impact again, the guy next to you might never tune in to Impact again, but there's always going to be new wrestling fans discovering the business who aren't jaded or predisposed to dislike Impact.

    They've actually become a very fan friendly company that's slowly starting to win people back. They're not where they were a decade ago, but they are rebuilding in a way that seemed impossible just a few years ago.

  12. #12
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    Talk of a boom period is premature at best. AEW gets 1 million viewers a week, even if that stays consistent, in six months to a year, its highly unlikely that they will have doubled that number or even increased it. WWE keeps bleeding viewers year to year.

    Beyond that, the mainstream does not care about wrestling like that to foster a boom period. Its more like coach was saying, a more hardcore audience and I can't see that changing when WWE thinks nothing is wrong with their actual product and other promotions aren't looking for the mainstream/casual audience. Even if WWE made massive changes tomorrow, that doesn't mean that a boom period would hit.

    Does everyone forget that yes WWF was near bankruptcy before the Attitude era but that also, Cable TV hadn't caught on just yet as some big thing, the culture and wrestling itself was stuck in the 80s well into the mid 90s.. and then WCW and WWF changed with the times. There is no changing with the radical times of 2019 where the political and social climate is totally different than 1999. To think that Vince McMahon who is nearing 80 and has cronies underneath him will change and help with a wrestling boom period is kind of ridiclous to me.

  13. #13
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    I was going to EDIT, but since it will not be a double post now....

    I do not see ROH, NWA, MLW, Lucha Libre, or NJPW as competition to the WWE or now AEW. All of those promotions have been around for a while, and the fans of those promotions, or wrestling fans who wants more find and continue to find those shows and TV content.

    To my knowledge, I have not seen any of those promotions make a dent into the WWE juggernaut. But AEW in 3 weeks has. They are beating NXT in ratings, and has people talking. Not sure if it will last, but so far it seems like a real possibility as a threat, but only time will tell.

    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    Talk of a boom period is premature at best. AEW gets 1 million viewers a week, even if that stays consistent, in six months to a year, its highly unlikely that they will have doubled that number or even increased it. WWE keeps bleeding viewers year to year.

    Beyond that, the mainstream does not care about wrestling like that to foster a boom period. Its more like coach was saying, a more hardcore audience and I can't see that changing when WWE thinks nothing is wrong with their actual product and other promotions aren't looking for the mainstream/casual audience. Even if WWE made massive changes tomorrow, that doesn't mean that a boom period would hit.

    Does everyone forget that yes WWF was near bankruptcy before the Attitude era but that also, Cable TV hadn't caught on just yet as some big thing, the culture and wrestling itself was stuck in the 80s well into the mid 90s.. and then WCW and WWF changed with the times. There is no changing with the radical times of 2019 where the political and social climate is totally different than 1999. To think that Vince McMahon who is nearing 80 and has cronies underneath him will change and help with a wrestling boom period is kind of ridiclous to me.
    Extremely premature, but if any promotion finds that voice, like Austin and the Rock were, having a transcendent star that makes people tune in, we could have a boom.

    I believe that the WWE needs to start allowing wrestlers to talk unscripted, and with more edgier content. They do not have to curse like Jericho for the sake of it, but they need to allow the performers to connect.

    Austin's 3:16 promo hit a nerve and so did everything the Rock said.

    Any promotion needs to allow a fresh face to find that voice that speaks to the masses, and you get T-shirts, ESPN announcers, Morning TV hosts (a la the Today Show) using the catchphrases, and you get a boom.

    Lay the Smackdown, Austin 3:16, Open a can of whoopass are still phrases you hear people say today. Not as often, but 20+ years later, they are still used. Someone, will be the new voice, it is inevitable.
    Last edited by Powder; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:07 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    In what way is ROH's brand damaged? They're still putting on consistently good shows, and still consistently one of the only touring companies that can provide full time work to pro wrestlers, which means they're making money.

    I'm not sure that a damaged brand can do that much harm in pro wrestling, to be honest. You might never tune in to Impact again, the guy next to you might never tune in to Impact again, but there's always going to be new wrestling fans discovering the business who aren't jaded or predisposed to dislike Impact.

    They've actually become a very fan friendly company that's slowly starting to win people back. They're not where they were a decade ago, but they are rebuilding in a way that seemed impossible just a few years ago.
    Maybe damaged is the wrong word however both companies are in a place right now where the last thing they need is other wrestling companies that have good will from fans and more of them take more of the market share. AEW has basically stripped ROH of its audience and they're still trying to recover. Impact might be doing good things quality wise but no one is watching. Is that because people have given up on the brand or because they have better options?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Although it is entirely possible that AEW will become real competition to the WWE, and it is still too early to tell. If AEW does become the new WCW to the WWF/E, then we could experience a new boom. Both promotions want to succeed, and if one is continually outdoing the other, then I can see the product evolving again, like the WWF did with the Attitude Era. Now I am not saying that we will get AEv2, but something will have to change.

    4 weeks in, is not a big enough sample size, but 6 months or more from today in today's world of potentially AEW winning, could and should force Vince to make some real changes like he did in 1997.

    If both promotions push each other, then we can see another boom, but if one promotion or the other does not see the other as a threat, then eventually the tipping point will be hit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    To my knowledge, I have not seen any of those promotions make a dent into the WWE juggernaut. But AEW in 3 weeks has. They are beating NXT in ratings, and has people talking. Not sure if it will last, but so far it seems like a real possibility as a threat, but only time will tell.

    Extremely premature, but if any promotion finds that voice, like Austin and the Rock were, having a transcendent star that makes people tune in, we could have a boom.

    I believe that the WWE needs to start allowing wrestlers to talk unscripted, and with more edgier content. They do not have to curse like Jericho for the sake of it, but they need to allow the performers to connect.

    Austin's 3:16 promo hit a nerve and so did everything the Rock said.

    Any promotion needs to allow a fresh face to find that voice that speaks to the masses, and you get T-shirts, ESPN announcers, Morning TV hosts (a la the Today Show) using the catchphrases, and you get a boom.

    Lay the Smackdown, Austin 3:16, Open a can of whoopass are still phrases you hear people say today. Not as often, but 20+ years later, they are still used. Someone, will be the new voice, it is inevitable.
    You vastly overrated AEW reach, or are vastly underrating WWE's AEW is beating NXT in the ratings. WWE's 3rd brand. It's an accomplishment, but considering everything else WWE is involved in (Raw, SD, the WWE Network, International NXT brands...etc.), AEW hasn't put a dent in anything substantial. Not only is it premature to judge the long term viability, but while the scope of what AEW is doing is huge in the wrestling world overall, it's nothing compared to what Vince has built up. Even with the routine bleeding, it's a monolith over AEW.

    As for forcing WWE to change, I've yet to see evidence that AEW has forced Vince's hand on anything. I agree that NXT was put against AEW on purpose, and I agree that the Heyman/Bischoff/Pritchard decisions were taken due to pressure from AEW. But there's equal proof that AEW had nothing to do with it. Fox and USA have been added pressure since before AEW was even a concept. Vince has XFL on his plate.

    It's all conjecture and guess work on our end. For every sign that Vince is shitting his pants over Khan and the Elite, there's a sign he is barely swatting a fly over it.


    Also, if the answer to WWE stagnant shows is to give more freedom to the stars as you suggest, than AEW will make that a priority on their shows. Lead the way. But time will tell if that's the answer. I'm sure it couldn't hurt, but I highly doubt letting Kevin Owens riff on AJ Styles naturally without a script, it'll turn Raw into a juggernaut of 3 million viewers. Even Rock and Austin didn't just appear and change the course of wrestling history. It took NWO on WCW to try something new, and Vince to respond with his own new idea. And so far, as solid as AEW has been... they aren't doing anything new.

  16. #16
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    And again, I will point to the wrestling landscape, the culture overall as to why a boom isn't very likely. If anything, wrestling will just become more niche with a hardcore base to support it. They could have Rock and Austin reincarnated and it probably wouldn't even work long term. People in general today reject the 90s as over the top shock value trash.

  17. #17
    The Brain
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    One factor of this to consider is it may be possible now more than ever to sustain production with a relatively small number of dedicated fans spread across the country or even the world.

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