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  1. #81
    The match I am most looking forward to tonight is the womens champion triple threat match.

  2. #82
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    I love Asuka so much.

  3. #83
    Tonight has a NXT Takeover sort of feel (being in Chicago helps too) so far. I know it’s not everybody’s taste, but it was encouraging that the Cole-Dunne match wasn’t a shortened main roster type of match. It was an NXT match for better or worse.
    Last edited by comfortablynumb; 11-24-2019 at 09:48 PM.

  4. #84
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    But it still had Pete Dunne in it, so meh.


    Change of gears...at TLC can we get The Fiend vs Lesnar?
    Last edited by Powder; 11-24-2019 at 09:52 PM.

  5. #85
    What are the odds that Mysterio actually wins the title?

  6. #86
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    How in the hell can you counted out in a triple threat match?

  7. #87
    Really hoping Keith Lee wins this for NXT.

  8. #88
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    Of course Reigns can't lose.

    What would eating a pinfall mean to Reigns?

    But any way it is 3-2-1 NXT-SD-RAW.

    NXT cannot leave first place for the night. Even if Shayna loses, NXT will still be at least tied with 3 wins.
    Last edited by Powder; 11-24-2019 at 10:35 PM.

  9. #89
    That was a fantastic exchange between the two to be fair.

    Also, smackdown winning this and NXT winning quite a bit of the earlier matches makes it that more likely Becky Lynch wins tonight. Still hoping for Bayley to do it, though.

  10. #90
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    Bayley still takes the pin, either Becky or Shayna pins Bayley.

    Well just look at who Vince likes though.

    Ripley pins Shayna last night and wins the Women's match tonight by pinning Sasha, and Keith Lee is the second to last one eliminated, and it took Reigns to pin him.
    Last edited by Powder; 11-24-2019 at 10:37 PM.

  11. #91
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    The Women's match sucked.

  12. #92
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    I've seen people say similar to the above - anything specific? Timing issues? A crowd burnt out after six hours of ~brand warfare~? Just poorly structured?

    I kind of don't care, because Shayna won.

    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    I'm sure you're not alone, but I can't agree. Honestly, the Survivor Series brand matches are dumb already, so I'm not arguing that part. But, we've seen enemies team up for the greater good before. Recently, The Bar are an obvious example. Macho Man along Mr Perfect to be his partner when Warrior got fired.

    And at least Rhea has the storyline ability to say these people might not be her top choices, but those choices aren't cleared after War Games.
    I must admit, I haven't watched the announcement, and I guess that storyline would work. It's just frustrating, you know?

  13. #93
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    The crowd was not burned out as they were still hot during the match prior, which was Lesnar vs Rey. It was just absolutely no chemestry, no spots of any kind, Bayley is just boring, and it really looked like all three were going through the motions as to not get hurt. Shayna was the least active, possibly, and I am completely speculating here that she was/is hurt from WarGames. But the NXT match between Becky and Ripley was much better, the triple threat from Smackdown on Friday was much better.

    Watch the match and you will see. It was slow, boring, sloppy and absolutely nothing happened. This was one of the Big Four PPVs, and with the rest of the card, most people were really anticipating this match, AND it was the main event, so you would think that it would be a great match, but it just fell way short.

    I have only seen Shayna wrestle just a handful of times, is she good or is she just a name and a former MMA athlete? Ripley is still really young, had some sloppy moments from being not that experienced, but she was the breakout star of the weekend. Belair is also really impressive and also Io Shirai is just wow. But in the 2 matches from this past weekend, Shayna did not look all that impressive.

    EDIT: From the main page:

    Survivor Series last night was headlined by a Women’s Champion vs Champion match despite many feeling it shouldn’t have gone on last. The triple threat between Becky Lynch, Bayley, and Shayna Baszler received a large amount of negative reviews from fans online. If you’re one of those fans who felt underwhelmed by the main event then don’t worry because you’re in good company. According to WrestleVotes, Vince McMahon was disappointed with the match as well.

    Heard even Vince himself didn’t like the main event last night. Major disappointment.

    — WrestleVotes (@WrestleVotes) November 25, 2019
    The one true takeaway from this PPV was that Vince allowed NXT to shine and made them into a legitimate brand last night.
    Last edited by Powder; 11-25-2019 at 10:20 AM.

  14. #94
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    I mean, I love Shayna and think she's dope as heck. She's killed it with Shirai and Sane in recent history - her match with Shirai for Stardom is absolutely great, to pick something from outside of NXT.

    I think because she doesn't work a particularly 'spotty' style - and I don't mean that in a 'throw yourself off the top of the cage' way, I mean that in the way that someone like Pete Dunne (potentially, for me, her nearest male equivalent) has his specific spots in terms of the finger snapping, the somersault out of the corner and so on - people think she's not telling a story or escalating the violence or whatever, when in fact that's kind of what I like about her. There's an atypical nature to her matches that I really appreciate. The 2/3 falls with Sane is another excellent match, actually.

    The one thing that I do notice with her - I think this was something that Coach first flagged - is that she doesn't always lean in to her offence when it's not hitting. So if she's going to miss a clothesline she makes the movement in the lightest way possible. I think I've seen it a bit less recently, so maybe it's improving or maybe my Shayna bias is coming through.

  15. #95
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    I do not believe that you need to be a big spotty wrestler, but you do need some big spot stuff. Becky is not a big spotty wrestler, but she does come off the top rope, will have some diving moves etc.

    Would you consider the Miz a spotty wrestler? No, neither would I, but he does have some bigger spots.

    Shayna needs to be more than just ground and pound. That works for MMA, but not wrestling.

    Look at when Gable and Riddle faced off. They did the classic mat wrestling bit, where it was hold/counter back and forth playing off both of their wrestling backgrounds, and the crowd loved it as they always do. There were no spots, but later both of them had their spots.

    Hell, even look at Braun Strowman. He is the classic big/giant powerhouse wrestler-type, but even he has his big spots. The circling the ring barreling people over, his dropkick, and he even goes to the second rope, and occasionally the top rope. Strowman is NOT a spotty wrestler, but even he has some spots.

    If Shayna cannot incorporate some spots into her repertoire, then I can see her falling down the card. Again, I have limited knowledge of her matches, but from what I have seen, she is boring.

    If you read through, Pete Dunne does not connect with me, but he wrestles bigger than he is. He has the mat wrestling, the counters, and spots. Both of his matches this weekend were entertaining, regardless of me not liking him.
    Last edited by Powder; 11-25-2019 at 11:26 AM.

  16. #96
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    It's almost like I've been saying for two years that she's too green and doesn't have strong enough fundamentals for this spotlight.

    Shayna has her spots that she does in every match. They're not flashy or high risk, but they're recognizable. Maybe not conducive to a three-way situation, but she has them.

  17. #97
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    What are her spots?

    The only one I can think of is the mounting her opponent and pounding her with both hands, like an MMA match. What are the others?

  18. #98
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    She does the bent arm stomp thing, she's got a big uppercut knee thing that she'll do when she puts someone down, she's got a gutwrench suplex either rolling or off the top.

    They're not these big awe inspiring spots, but they're recognizable that you're going to see them in her match. I don't think she needs to add too much more of that to her repertoire. Not having a style based on these signature spots, which so many WWE wrestlers do, is why Shayna can do a 25-minute match on every Takeover and it doesn't feel like you're watching a greatest hits or a highlight reel or the same match you saw last month.

    I've been one of the most critical people of her around these parts, but I find that her having fewer of these spots makes her gel really well with everyone regardless of their "style" and it means her match doesn't have to grind to a halt every time for a song and dance routine before she hits a flying punch.

    She feels more "real" than the other girls, and I can appreciate that.

    Maybe they just shouldn't book her in positions like that.

  19. #99
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    Fair enough, but she needs something.

    Maybe Ronda Rousey really was the second coming of Kurt Angle in how fast she took to the business. Rousey has a total of 70 matches and 30 were either on TV or PPV, and she looked so much more polished and better than Baszler who has over three times the amount with 255 matches under her belt. And Baszler has been wrestling for 4 years since 2015, Rousey, only about 1 year.

    It's now a shame that Rousey left, because of what she could have been in this past year. Imagine another 7 months of wrestling almost every day from Mania to today?
    Last edited by Powder; 11-25-2019 at 12:19 PM.

  20. #100
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    Shayna has her weaknesses, but I love her positives.

    I think what we are almost saying is she's not an exciting wrestler. It's not a knock, because I would say the same of Randy Orton. It isn't that they don't have exciting moves or abilities, but their style isn't based on that. And Shayna doesn't have the experience Orton has. He might be Captain Chinlock, but he knows how to act for the crowd with the RKO canvas punching, or the setting up of the draped DDT...etc. Shayna has her own, but they aren't as well established. It's also that she's been only a heel. A lot of Orton's moves that pop were discovered when he played babyface. He used them as a heel, but they made a bigger impact as the one we cheered on when doing these moves.

    Shayna isn't someone who can lead a division, but she'll be a cornerstone if used right. WWE has no problem with tough women in their divisions. Sure, there's Alexa Bliss, Carmella and that type, but for the most part, the women are presented as tough warrior. The ones getting over the most these days are the tougher ones, and it's hard to see anyone that fits that description better than Shayna right now. The eventual Rhea vs Shayna title match will likely be a headlining match, even with Mr Ridiculous Spot Adam Cole as NXT champ.


    EDIT
    Survivor Series was solid, but the best part of the whole show is how it'll likely effect the brands moving forward. I'm sure AEW lunkhead marks will claim it was all done to beat Dynamite in the ratings, but if WWE didn't have competition, this would have been the wise move. There's an unreal amount of talent in WWE, and establishing 3 separate brands as truly different shows and entities would be amazing. I know Raw and Smackdown indistinguishable at this time, but NXT is the obvious outlier. Creating a brand based on that style, with a format aimed for a certain type of fan, while also delivering a more glossy mainstream show like Raw/Sd is genius. As long as NXT stays NXT, and let the other brands have their own identity, it benefits everyone.
    Last edited by PEN15v2; 11-25-2019 at 01:25 PM.

  21. #101
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    Can we stop talking about Ronda like she was some kind of duck to water? She stank the place out as often as she didn't. She also botched the end of the biggest women's match in history.

    Shayna's way better as a character than Ronda ever was. And that's 90% of the battle won.

  22. #102
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    WWE puts on too many events to point to any as ground breaking, or turning points.

    But Survivor Series 2019 will likely go down as a major/special event in WWE history for how it established NXT, as well as Adam Cole, Shayna Bazler, Rhea Ripley, and Keith Lee. Over the course of one weekend, WWE created several contenders to the top titles in all 3 brands of WWE. And the NXT brand getting this push will likely help with viewership going forward.

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    even with Mr Ridiculous Spot Adam Cole as NXT champ.
    Not trying to debate you...honest question here.

    Then what do you think about guys like Ricochet, Humberto, Montez Ford, Buddy Murphy, or any of the cruisers then? They are all spotfest kind of guys. Ricochet more than most others.

  24. #104
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    Not a fan of Ricochet.
    Humberto I'm waiting to see more to judge.
    I don't find Montez to be the same. He's also in a tag team, so maybe it's hidden. But for the most part he's a solid seller, while Angelo delivers the hot tag power moves. Montez delivers strong high flying, but it's never choreographed looking or too spotty for my tastes.
    Buddy isn't even in this category at all.

  25. #105
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    Buddy Murphy is twice the wrestler Ricochet is, in my opinion. Maybe even more so. If he went to NJPW he'd be king shit of the Jrs division in a heartbeat, and probably end up quickly into the heavyweight division.

    I love Buddy.

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