Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    172

    Half Luck, Half Skul: Monday Night Madness - The Greatest RAW Match R1.1

    Madness is back! Over the years, we've tackled projects such as determining the greatest match in WrestleMania, SummerSlam, Survivor Series, Backlash, and Royal Rumble history - events that combine to boast over 1000 matches. Well, our next bucket list item is whittling down an even bigger list. Monday Night RAW has been running since I was 3 years old and has over 1000 episodes to its name. But we will, as we always do, determine the greatest match in the history of WWE's Monday evenings.

    I am privileged to be joined by mizfan, Oliver (both accompanying me for the sixth consecutive time!), Mazza, The Doc, SirSam, and DynamiteBillington. I have plumbed the depths of RAW history to come up with 64 matches vying for the title of the best ever. The seven of us will vote in a series of one-on-one matches, eliminating one match at a time until we crown a winner.

    Today, we'll take on Bracket A, with B, C, and D to come in the near future. Given the sheer quantity of quality that we've seen on Monday nights, get ready to wonder where that classic RAW match went. I know my buddy SirSam has nudged me a few times about a specific match he was hoping to see in the ranks. There were some seriously tough cuts to make - but that's part of the territory!

    Let's get cracking. Here's Bracket A!




    Bracket A









    (1) TLC IV (10/07/02) vs. (16) Chris Jericho vs. Christian (05/10/04)


    mizfan: And so it begins! Not a huge challenge to start, I dearly love the Jericho/Christian feud but itís hard to beat the car crash fun of TLC. I enjoy the unique makeup of this iteration as well.

    DynamiteBillington: I've never been into the TLC match gimmick Ė it's just an overbooked ladder match. OK, the first couple made sense because of how they were built up to, but ever since then they've just been an excuse for a random clusterfuck with no story, just a series of random stunts. And of course lots of obligatory lying around doing nothing whilst waiting for it to be your turn to do something. It doesn't help that this was mainly thrown together teams, featuring my two most hated wrestlers and a Dudley's B Team.

    The main positives of this match were Kane showing how great he was at being the anchor for these type of matches, and JR's lone commentary. He was good with the King, but this match just showed how good he can be when he's just doing his job with no outside interference.

    Christian & Jericho though? A good solid match. That gets my vote.

    Mazza: Simple one this. If there is a match up I canít really remember, that is likely for a reason no matter how appealing it seems on paper. Up against a classic and it is a slam dunk for me. TLC IV to advance.

    SirSam: Two really great gimmick matches to start things off but Iíve gone with the 16th seed over the absolute chaos of TLC IV. Usually I donít particularly like steel cage matches as the gimmick tends to limit most matches rather than enhancing them, this is quite different though. Coming at the peak of a heated feud it is the perfect way for Jericho to get some revenge. I feel like Iím going to say this a lot this series but both have an absolute hell of a call from J.R. who carries the emotion of both matches and even does the TLC one by himself.

    Oliver: Just to say, straight off the bat Ė Iíve scanned ahead and there isnít enough DíLo Brown in this thing.

    This oneís a win for the Katie Vick Memorial TLC, for me.

    The Doc: I am a huge fan of the TLC matches historically, save for this one. TLC 4 was set-up by a roulette wheel and was missing much of the cast that made the concept famous. Christian vs. Jericho, however, was a fantastic feud with six-plus months of hype behind it when it culminated in this forgotten gem on Raw. They were a pairing that I could watch all day, and factors like that matter in situations like these with matches that struggled (for me anyway, and likely for others) to establish anything close to the caliber of memory that did peers from pay-per-view shows. Any time Christian vs. Jericho took place in 2004, I got pumped; and they always delivered. TLC 4, compared to that dynamic, is highly overrated.

    Skulduggery: Anyone who's read previous editions of Madness knows I'm a sucker for TLC. GM Bischoff's penchant for chaos and controversy came into full effect in Vegas when he had Kane single-handedly defend tag titles against 3 other teams, half of each which was made up of TLC legends. I dig this particular demolition derby so much that it's actually my second favorite of all time, behind II but ahead of I. Jericho and Christian had a pimping blood feud match too, but I'll take them teaming up instead.

    (1) TLC IV (10/07/02) wins 4-3




    (8) Rob Van Dam vs. Christian (09/29/03) vs. (9) Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit (02/16/04)


    The Doc: My kind of Ladder Match, right here. Though I find TLC 4 overrated, I think RVD-Christian is highly underrated. RVD vs. Christian made mine and Maverick's Top 100 Mid-Card Matches in WWE History countdown, which is on-going FYI. There were not a lot of showcases of this magnitude for Christian as a singles star during his original WWE run, and frankly there were not many like it for RVD after 2001, so frankly this stands out to me. If it had been as high as a 5-seed, I wouldn't have batted an eyelash.

    Mazza: Tight one here, but I am going with RVD and Captain Charisma, because as we all know, Christian > HBK, right?

    Skulduggery: A couple of things immediately popped into my mind when considering this batch of greatest RAW matches versus the PPV matches we've done tournaments over. One, how much do commercials affect the quality of RAW matches, something which doesn't come into play in the PPV counterparts? And secondly, how detrimentally would the tendency of TV matches to occur as midway steps rather than feud culmination play into their reputation? In the case of Michaels and Benoit, its status as catalyst to a Mania main event actually only enhances it in my eyes. If this match was meant to serve its purpose as creating hype for a then-very unorthodox triple threat main event, it surpassed that goal marker by some distance. Spectacular show of ringmanship.

    mizfan: I think this era, particularly late í03 to early Ď04, is an underrated pocket of great TV matches, so glad to see some pop up in the mix. These are both great to be frank, but Iíve got to go with Benoit/HBK here for telling a stronger, more character driven than the more spotty ladder match.

    DynamiteBillington: I've got no idea whether RVD/Christian justified a ladder match at this point in their story, but whether they did or not it was just a pretty standard stunt fest which didn't stand out to me at all.

    That HBK/Benoit match though? That could be used as a lesson in the performance centre about how to put on a great match. That gets my vote here and will take some beating in future rounds.

    Oliver: HBK vs Benoit happens in the Mania run up, where everyone seems to work twice as hard on TV than normal. ButÖI prefer the RVD vs Christian match, so Iím going for that.

    SirSam: These are two very different matches so it is hard to pit them against one another however as effortlessly smooth as HBK v Chris Benoit Iíve gone with the one that feels like it achieves something substantial [RVD vs. Christian] as opposed to what was simply building up to a bigger match.

    (8) Rob Van Dam vs. Christian (09/29/03) wins 4-3




    (5) Mr. Perfect vs. Ric Flair (01/25/93) vs. (12) Jeff Hardy vs. Johnny Nitro (11/20/06)


    DynamiteBillington: As soon as I saw this pairing, I knew it was only going to go one way. Nearly didn't bother watching, but thought I should just in case. Turns out my instinct was correct. A near perfect textbook match by two of the best of all time against a spotfest between contenders for two of the worst. The best bit of that ladder match was Melina's ring entrance, and they didn't even do a close up. If anyone votes against Flair and Perfect here, they should be disqualified from ever having a vote in anything again.

    Skulduggery: Perfect and Flair is absolutely ripe with soul, character and meaning. But I find myself gripped much more when watching Hardy and Nitro burn down Baltimore rung by rung. Just when you thought you had seen Jeff Hardy do it all in ladder matches, his electric chemistry with Johnny Nitro unearths another level of innovation from the toolbox.

    Mazza: Flair vs Hennig is absolutely classic TV. JoMo and Jeff had some brilliant battles in the mid to late 00s but they canít touch the Loser Leaves Town.

    SirSam: Third round in and third ladder match, you sure do like those ladder matches Skul. There was nothing particularly wrong with this match, it has some exciting moments like Nitro drop kicking Hardy from the top of a ladder but really it is all pretty derivative. The fact something as ordinary as this match made the list and a truly innovative match like the 2018 Raw Gauntlet match is a pretty huge blindspot. Even the match in the segment after it between a 61 year old Dusty Rhodes and young Dolph Ziggler would have been a better match for this countdown. Flair & Perfect take this one with a bullet.

    mizfan: Another match between worthy contenders! But as fun as Jeff/Johnny was, itís tough to beat the absolutely classic clash between Perfect and Flair.

    Oliver: Perfect vs Flair. No question.

    The Doc: One of the things that I wrote about in my book (spoke about in the audio version) is how much more challenging it is for a TV match to establish the same kind of memory that a PPV bout can because the volume of TV matches is so much greater. Plus, factor in commercial breaks and commentators talking about sponsors and the next week and the odds are against TV bouts equaling a PPV counterpart's impact. Back in 1993, it was easier for a TV match to stand out because there were so few PPVs, plus Raw was only an hour long. Perfect vs. Flair made an impression; it made an impact. Loser Leaves Town is an awesome stipulation, so that helped; Flair's respect for Curt Hennig and a clear and obvious desire to put him over strong on his way out did too.

    (5) Mr. Perfect vs. Ric Flair (01/25/93) wins 6-1




    (4) Daniel Bryan vs. Jack Swagger, Antonio Cesaro & Ryback (07/22/13) vs. (13) Randy Orton vs. Edge (05/10/04)


    Oliver: Gauntlet match FTW. That middle bit of Bryan vs Cesaro was dope as hell.

    Mazza: As you will see from this whole tourney, I am a huge fan of pretty much everything on TV during the rise of Daniel Bryan. What a time to be a fan (assuming you didnít spend the whole time moaning about the burial of Daniel Bryan). Give me the gauntlet here. True grit from GOAT-face.

    The Doc: Give me the upset pick. The Gauntlet match was important to summer that would come to be remembered for Daniel Bryan's rise to the top of the company, but rewatchability is a major factor for me when comparing matches and I really enjoy Orton vs. Edge on replay. On the LOPForums in those days, I picked many a battle on behalf of defending young Orton's in-ring talents, and engaged with a very pro-Edge stance in the Christian vs. Edge debate too. I remember pointing to this match as an example to back up my positions, so it is both rewatchable and sentimental for yours truly.

    mizfan: And now we come to the first surprise of the list. I actually watched this particular Orton/Edge match just prior to Skul sending out the listings, and I didnít really think anything of it at the time. Edge was quite cold as a poorly defined babyface, and while Orton was very hot as a character he still needed some help in the ring, which Edge wasnít up to giving him. Itís not bad, but I wouldnít call it more than decent, a novelty of two famous names having a rather nondescript match. Compare to the stunningly great Bryan gauntlet match! The leg with Cesaro is legendary and rightfully so, but watching it again I was struck by how engaging and creative the final stretch with Ryback was as well, and the crowd biting on everything. Give me Bryan here, and for me this one will be hard to beat.

    DynamiteBillington: That gauntlet match was pretty fun, and gave Bryan a good opportunity to remind everyone how good he is. Actually, just the Cesaro section on it's own could have got into this tournament given some of the other entries. And despite the ultimate finish being a DQ, I don't have a problem if that's the match that goes through out of these two.

    But Orton and Edge get my vote.

    Skulduggery: I'm going with Orton and Edge. Excellent little match between budding legends that had its status amplified with future matches continuing the story of Edge increasingly dipping his toes into the heel's pool.

    SirSam: Funny how with the most recent two star making Gauntlet Matches on Raw and Smackdown (BTW Skul, why isnít the 2018 Raw one here?) this Daniel Bryan one that got a lot of people excited at the time has faded from our collective memory a little. Itís been a while since I watched it so my memory was pretty foggy and I was very happy with what I rediscovered. Three quite different matches in a row, started with the Swagger back and forth, highlighted by the Cesaro match and punctuated by a ravenous Ryback. Sometimes as a face Bryan can be a tad formulaic in his matches but this showed off his versatility in a great way. Certainly the Edge v Orton match was good and built to a very exciting finish but the Bryan one takes the win for me.

    (4) Daniel Bryan vs. Jack Swagger, Antonio Cesaro & Ryback (07/22/13) wins 4-3




    (3) Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit (06/11/01) vs. (14) Lita vs. Trish Stratus (12/06/04)


    The Doc: Trish vs. Lita is underseeded in my opinion, rendering it fodder for what has to be considered a trendy pick to win this bracket. A German Suplex off the middle of the top rope. A diving headbutt from off the top of the cage. A moonsault from off the top of the cage. Those three visual alone make it one of the most memorable TV matches in WWE history.

    SirSam: Lita v Trish for its time was something pretty special, a womenís championship match that was given time, was allowed to be athletically competitive and was positioned in a prestige position fitting of a serious title match. However when you compare the actual matches themselves it just doesnít stack up against the intensity and character of Kurt Angle v Chris Benoit.

    DynamiteBillington: So I guess this had been the case before with some of the matches in these brackets, but I only just noticed that according to the WWE Network Angle didn't have an opponent on this date. He competed in a cage match all on his own. And a fine job he did of it too.

    Trish & Lita was a good match for what it was, and taking in to account the lack of flesh on show I guess this must have been an early attempt at taking the women seriously. Shame, I like the flesh. Most of the men wrestle topless, I think more of the women should too.

    I think maybe I've been watching too much porn lately.

    If I could be serious for a minute, I guess this made the cut because of it's historic nature, it certainly wasn't anything particularly special.

    Despite the interference that leads to the finish, I'm going to vote for the one man cage match.

    Oliver: You know, Iíd probably put these two on a similar footing. Watching Lita vs Trish in 2019, you canít help but feel that WWE only needed a nudge in the right direction and weíd have a much more developed female roster now. Angle vs Benoit is good, but itís a cage match which has all the usual trappings of a cage match.

    Iím giving the nod to Lita vs Trish.

    Skulduggery: The ladies put forth a spectacular show in the first RAW to be main evented by women; the match flowed with athletic excellence and palpable emotion. But stick an insane paranoid Austin on commentary to be wowed by the caged phenomena of Angle and Benoit, and you've got something that overpowers it substantially. "My God, Angle went for everything! And got nothing!"

    Mazza: I can certainly appreciate the big deal that Lita vs Trish was. It is possibly a bit underseeded. However it is no match for the cage match between the pairing who arguably had the best chemistry in WWE history.

    mizfan: Iíd love to give this to the women, because that is an excellent match with an all time crazy spot to cap it off. They broke the limitations of the era in that one. But man, Benoit/Angle is so gritty, brutal, and talk about some crazy spots! Iíve got to give them the win here.

    (3) Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit (06/11/01) wins 6-1




    (6) Shawn Michaels vs. Edge (01/22/07) vs. (11) Mick Foley vs. Terry Funk (05/04/98)


    Skulduggery: The fact that Shawn Michaels and Edge, without altering strict face/heel alignments, had two street fights on RAW only two years apart ('05 and '07), and yet both had magnificently different feels to them is a pretty strong testament to each man's skills and the storyline development of the characters. HBK in early 2007 was absolutely hell-bent on avenging his buddy Hunter's injury at the hands of Edge and Orton, and nobody quite does a man possessed like the Showstopper. Edge, meanwhile, straddled that line of barbaric and creative much like he did at WrestleMania 22, and thus a delight of a Street Fight was born, just edging out the also excellent Foley/Funk war.

    Oliver: 53 year old Terry Funk does a crooked moonsault off a balcony in the 11th seed.

    Vote against it at your peril.

    mizfan: HBK/Edge is definitely good but it feels overseeded to me, I didnít really get a sense that it was a flat out great match though. Foley/Funk though, whew! My first time seeing that match and it really delivered, the story behind the match was so easy to pick up on and the nuances that made it different from the typical WWF match of the era make it stand out further. Itís the hardcore legends for me!

    Mazza: In porn terms this is like a top studio 40 minute 3 hole gonzo scene with top not lighting and production up against a grimey shakey cam felching no-holds-barred gangbang shot by Uncle Joe in a basement. Despite the differences, a lot of people are jacking off to both in the comfort of their own room. Where am I going with this? Errrr, Shawn and Edge please.

    DynamiteBillington: Neither of these matches did much for me as someone who isn't a fan of hardcore wrestling, but sometimes it's the small touches that count. When you're in a Street Fight, you don't wear your standard wrestling gear Ė you wear street clothes. Edge & HBK get my vote here purely because they dressed for the occasion.

    And did Terry Funk actually retire yet?

    SirSam: This is a tough one for me because I have a lot of love for all four men in this match up. Edge was the heel that got me into wrestling Ď08, Shawn one of the wrestlers I came to respect most early on, Funk is just an unstoppable war horse and Foley is in my opinion the best creative mind wrestling has ever seen and alongside Dean Ambrose my favorite ever.

    All that said, as good as the Shawn Michaels v Edge match is there is just no beating the absolute wild early Attitude vibe from Foley v Funk. There really was something special in the air in that 96-99ish stretch where things felt so chaotic and incredibly raw. It is such a stark comparison to the sanitized, picture perfect, vision of pro wrestling TV that Raw would become by 2007.

    The Doc: This was supposed to be one of the featured matches on the WrestleMania 23 card before Triple H got injured and WWE pivoted to HBK as Cena's opponent at Ford Field. I would've loved to have seen HBK vs. Edge on the grandest stage, ladies and gentlemen. Mr. WrestleMania vs. perhaps the guy who best understood the magic of WrestleMania (at least in terms of his ability to communicate that understanding to the people). They previewed the upper end potential of what they could achieve together here, and frankly this was the best match in their limited library of work together. If I get the chance, I'll enjoy at least considering it to upset Angle-Benoit in the next round.

    (6) Shawn Michaels vs. Edge (01/22/07) wins 4-3




    (7) Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte Flair (07/25/16) vs. (10) Finn Balor vs. Seth Rollins (04/02/18)


    SirSam: Matches like Finn Balor v Seth Rollins really make me wish there was a button to mute commentary and WWE production. These two men went out and pulled out all the stops, had the crowd in the palm of their hands with the false finishes and generally ripped it up but you wouldnít know it listening to commentary who focused on it for maybe 30% of the time it was happening. I really want to go with them for just the way they built up to an absolutely breathtaking crescendo but I have to go with Banks v Flair as they did something quite similar but in a match that had a genuine emotional payoff at the end.

    Mazza: Two very good TV matches here but there is a slight difference for me. Seth and Finn delivered that slightly higher quality on the bigger PPV stage, as you would expect. In contrast, Sasha and Charlotteís TV bouts pissed all over their PPV bouts. They get the nod from me here.

    Skulduggery: A lot of people felt the Banks/Flair stuff got a little too saturated by the time 2016 was closing up. Count me as excluded from that group. With the right pairing, you can have them in match after match after match, for all I care. Charlotte and Sasha was one of those pairs. The pleasant surprise of the Queen being dethroned gives this first Banks title win an extra oomph. Balor and Rollins relied a little too much on the sole athletic facet and, while undeniably good, suffered from a lack of good/evil and/or character to hit the required gear for me.

    The Doc: In my year end awards in 2016, Banks vs. Flair was named my TV Match of the Year. I thought that performance was tremendous and quite frankly the most enjoyable match that they had together. Flair was at her original peak in the company and Banks was at her apex as a protagonist; obviously Sasha's character strength is as a heel, but her ability to play Charlotte's foil given her diminutive stature and other such qualities should not be discounted when reflecting on her career. If you ask me, in her own way, Banks is a better foil for Charlotte than Becky Lynch, at least in between the ropes (but that's kind of becoming a "Which opponent do you prefer for Ric Flair?" type thing; Charlotte is that good). Rollins vs. Balor was just a match; Flair vs. Banks was an experience.

    Oliver: Sasha vs Charlotte, for me.

    DynamiteBillington: For a match to be an all time classic, all aspects of it need to be great. Both of these matches had most of the ingredients, but unfortunately one of those ingredients is commentary and that was very definitely lacking for the Balor/Rollins match. Pretty much the whole time was spent talking about Miz's new baby. There was even a couple of minutes where the focus was on an advert for the upcoming WrestleMania. The match itself would probably have been a potential show stealer on most shows, PPVs included, but on this episode of Raw it was an afterthought.

    Banks & Flair get the vote here.

    mizfan: Iím not quite as high on the Sasha/Charlotte rivalry as some are, but this is one of their better matches. On the other side, I deeply believe that Balor and Rollins bring out the worst in each other, all athletics but no grit, not heart, no story, no character in sight. Frankly sitting through that one was a bore for me, so itís definitely the women all the way here.

    (7) Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte Flair (07/25/16) wins 7-0




    (2) Shawn Michaels vs. John Cena (04/23/07) vs. (15) Asuka vs. Sasha Banks (01/29/18)


    DynamiteBillington: I'm going to start this one by saying in my opinion, Asuka is the best female wrestler going. She's also the hottest. That's not enough for this though.

    When I agreed to be a part of this best Raw Match series, there was one match which immediately sprung to mind as a probable winner. That was this match between Cena and Michaels. It's from the period where I was watching Raw weekly and as live as possible (being British), so seeing this hour long classic unfold as it happened has made this match stand out in my memory for all this time. It's one I've often thought about watching again, so this tournament is the perfect opportunity to do that.

    But I'm going to leave that until the second round Ė if Cena & HBK don't get a unanimous vote here, it's another opportunity to disqualify someone from voting in anything ever again.

    The Doc: Throwaway use of one of the great marquee matches in women's division lore versus a legit bracket-winning contender? Easy call. HBK vs. Cena is the Golden Boy's graduation ceremony into elite status following the successful passing of his final exam at WrestleMania 23.

    Oliver: Asuka vs Sasha is dope, and given the amount of votes I expect to go to the hour long, overindulgent Cena vs Michaels, I feel like I should give the two ladies a shout out here with my vote.

    Because itís so, so dope. Even with Sasha nearly killing herself on a tope.

    Mazza: As is tradition in these things, agendas are made and vendettas are started. As far as I can see the only standout thing Cena and Michaels has going for it is that it was long. That is not necessarily a redeeming quality for me. Overhyped and overrated. Still, Iíd have expected it to get past the first round (and still do) however not with my vote as I thought Banks vs Asuka was excellent.

    Skulduggery: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels is wildly impressive in the way that the goalies' performance in a playoff hockey game that goes 0-0 into double overtime is wildly impressive. But Asuka vs. Sasha Banks is frenetically paced and magnetizing the same way a single period of hockey that goes 5-4 is frenetically paced and magnetizing. I think that the longer a match goes on, the heavier the onus is to keep it captivating, and many WWE matches that go into extra innings accomplish that, but this match in London slipped a little at times. Give me the massive underdog here!

    mizfan: I was very interested to rewatch the HBK/Cena broadway, but as I watched my interest faded as the minutes stretched on and on. It was a great novelty at the time but, for me, it doesnít hold up well. I wasnít entirely wild about Asuka/Sasha either but I actually thought it was the more interesting and fun of the two matches here.

    SirSam: This is the one hour match where they so desperately wanted to prove John Cena could wrestle isnít it? I would probably enjoy it if it wasnít so transparently desperate, give me Asuka v Banks four times in a row instead please.

    (15) Asuka vs. Sasha Banks (01/29/18) wins 5-2





    Well, on the heels of that massive upset, seems like a good time to end things. Not the first time in Madness that a (2)-seed involving Cena and Michaels wrestling in 2007 bit the dust in the first round (going all the way back to the Backlash tournament, with a (7)-seed Eddie/RVD taking out Cena, HBK, Edge and Orton), but this one has to trump that upset by some distance!

    That leaves us with the following match-ups in the next round of Bracket A...

    (1) TLC IV (10/07/02) vs. (8) Rob Van Dam vs. Christian (09/29/03)
    (4) Daniel Bryan vs. Jack Swagger, Antonio Cesaro & Ryback (07/22/13) vs. (5) Mr. Perfect vs. Ric Flair (01/25/93)
    (3) Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit (06/11/01) vs. (6) Shawn Michaels vs. Edge (01/22/07)
    (7) Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte Flair (07/25/16) vs. (15) Asuka vs. Sasha Banks (01/29/18)


    But first, we'll do Brackets B through D! What will the other 48 matches that have a shot at the greatest RAW match ever turn out to be? Will any of us even be allowed to vote, or will we all continue to be disqualified?

    We've only scratched the surface - so much more Madness to come!

  2. #2
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,687
    Wow we finished up with a huge upset and nearly kicked things off with one too. I can't say I'm too surprised, while the Shawn v Cena match is the kind of match the WWE loves to reference and name drop it re-watches very poorly.

    Mazza's description of the Funk/Foley match has got to rank as one of the most disturbing but hilarious comments on one of these.

    Gotta ask Skull, why wasn't the 2018 Gauntlet part of this? I may have hinted a few times I was disapointed it missed out.
    Last edited by SirSam; 12-04-2019 at 06:38 AM.

  3. #3
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    4,813
    Quote Originally Posted by SirSam View Post
    while the Shawn v Cena match is the kind of match the WWE loves to reference and name drop it re-watches very poorly.
    .

    Does it? I rewatched it a year or so ago and I thought it was great. But then I was there at Earls Court for it, so I might be a bit biased.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  4. #4
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    TrowVegas
    Posts
    782
    Quote Originally Posted by SirSam View Post
    nearly kicked things off with one too
    We did...that clusterfuck of a TLC match shouldn't have been anywhere near this tournament!

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    7
    So glad to see this back.

    Already four 4-3's which hopefully signifies a very tight and close tournament.

    Also who'd have thought there'd be two Sasha Banks matches in the next round while only one of the three HBK matches would advance.

    Looking forward to the rest of these.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,729
    Yes! Suck my dick, Cena vs HBK!

    Great fun here, as ever, and everyone delivering some fun quick bits in the early stages.

    Still not enough D-Lo, though.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    In Plan's Brain
    Posts
    222
    *Waits for Doc to show up and chew us all out for dumping Cena vs HBK

  8. #8
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    TrowVegas
    Posts
    782
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazza View Post
    *Waits for Doc to show up and chew us all out for dumping Cena vs HBK
    I'm demanding a recount before we do the second round

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    411
    Jericho/Christian was on of my favourite feuds of 2004 and I fondly remember their Mania 2004 match. However, I'm happy Kane's TLC went through here. Kane is probably the master at unexpected great pairings (also with X-Pac and Daniel Bryan) and his pairing with RVD was stellar as well. This match is one of Kanes greatest moments.

    On Skuls point about commercial affecting tv bouts I think that only affects the match if it is of the shorter variety. Most times commercials start when the face is in control and end with the heel being in control after a big move. But alot of times what happens during a commercial is just the heel slowly working over the face which at times I could do without.

    I don't remember the Edge/Orton match in question. I do remember their Vengance match that same year and I remember the match being pretty good. TV-wise, however, I'm hoping their match from the night after Backlash 2007 is somewhere in this tournament.

    Wow, Banks/Flair with a whitewash over Balor/Rollins. Charlotte and Sasha have great chemistry in they had s pretty epic feud. It makes sense they would advance because honestly I think Balor/Rollins lack some serious chemistry. I hate when they wrestler. I guess they just too similar in the ring.

    Really, really surprised at Cena/HBK getting knocked out. That match was hyped at the time. I have find memories of the match but with the match making I'll probably have to rewatch it.

    I'm so happy the Madness back!

  10. #10
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,584
    It was worth the wait for this to see the light of day just to watch that endless Cena/HBK match get shot down.

    I love doing these Skul, you're the best!

  11. #11
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    TrowVegas
    Posts
    782
    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    It was worth the wait for this to see the light of day just to watch that endless Cena/HBK match get shot down.

    I love doing these Skul, you're the best!
    Heathen.

  12. #12
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,584
    Haha, I'm as surprised as anyone to find out so many people agree with me!

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    172
    Cheers for the feedback, all!

    Sam - Good question. Really just came down to the sheer number of great matches meaning some had to be cut. The Gauntlet match was one of the ones to just miss it. Another one I cut late that I knew would be disappointing to a panelist (particularly, mizfan) was Miz/Lawler in TLC.

    PT - I do wonder how much that kind of thing really affects our perspective. I attended Survivor Series '14 and to this day, Team Cena vs. Team Authority ranks right up there in my favorite matches, but I don't think it's quite as loved by most. Certainly not mizzie!

    DB - I mean, WWE named it the RAW match of the decade at the RAW 10th Anniversary, it was an absolute lock for this tournament for that reason alone. Doesn't mean the voting panel can't disagree and knock it out early!

    Cook - Michaels, unsurprisingly, has a huge presence in this whole tournament. Watch this space to see if him being knocked out early is a trend!

    Oli - We'll change the name of "Bracket D" to "Bracket D'Lo" in order to make up for the oversight.

    Mazza - Right? It's Angle/HBK from Mania 21 again, but this time to a #15 seed, and not even in a particularly close vote...

    Don - Kane did make those odd couples work wonders. Funnily enough, his odd partner of the week in TLC in 2002, Hurricane, didn't even compete in this match. Kane did it alone for Team Hurri-Kane. Thanks for the excellent feed!

    miz - Appreciate the patience as always man! I knew you'd like that result. I guess we are all just a bunch of hipsters.

    Thanks again to everybody!

  14. #14
    You know who I am, but you don't know why I'm here
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    74
    Maz was apparently too busy watching porn to be smart about the HBK Cena match.

    Seriously, I find the lack of Shawn Michaels appreciation in these tournaments disturbing (in James Earl Jones voice)

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    117
    Excluded again??? I think it might be time for another parody.


    It always cracks me up when someone spends their entire section praising one match but then turns around and picks the other in a single sentence. Ah the lols.


    I thought Dyno proclaiming his love for Asian women was the icing on the cake but then Asuka and Banks served the 2-seed some humble pie! And yes I just came up with that wordplay off the top of my head.


    Uh I was gonna ask how anyone in their right mind could vote against Bryan's gauntlet match but it could be completely fucked in the next round so I'll shush.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •