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Thread: Wrestlemania 36

  1. #1
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    Wrestlemania 36

    So I just read that for Wrestlemania 36 there are 2 possible opponents for Lesnar:

    1. The rubber match between Cain Velasquez

    OR

    2. Tyson Fury, as he just called out Lesnar and said he could/would drop him in under a minute


    If either of these is the case, then it is imperative that Lesnar drops the WWE title at the Royal Rumble. I do not believe, think or want either of those two matches to be for the WWE Championship, and I want even less either one of those guys as WWE Champion.

    I am ok with either of the matches as spectacle matches, but spectacle matches should never be for a title.

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    February seems like a good time to do that then. History is on the side of moving the title off someone during that month in order to set up a big Mania match. Lesnar dropping the title to Guerrero and moving on to Goldberg for 20; Taker dropping the title to... someone setting up HBKs retirement match several years later. Im sure there are other examples Im forgetting.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by meandi View Post
    February seems like a good time to do that then. History is on the side of moving the title off someone during that month in order to set up a big ‘Mania match. Lesnar dropping the title to Guerrero and moving on to Goldberg for 20; ‘Taker dropping the title to... someone setting up HBK’s retirement match several years later. I’m sure there are other examples I’m forgetting.
    Kevin Owens dropping the title to Goldberg is another.

    Also, it was Jericho who Taker dropped the title to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    So I just read that for Wrestlemania 36 there are 2 possible opponents for Lesnar:

    1. The rubber match between Cain Velasquez

    OR

    2. Tyson Fury, as he just called out Lesnar and said he could/would drop him in under a minute


    If either of these is the case, then it is imperative that Lesnar drops the WWE title at the Royal Rumble. I do not believe, think or want either of those two matches to be for the WWE Championship, and I want even less either one of those guys as WWE Champion.

    I am ok with either of the matches as spectacle matches, but spectacle matches should never be for a title.
    I disagree with the spectacle matches not being for the title theory. I think it's always a case by case basis.

    But I definitely agree that it isn't wise with Brock vs Cain or Fury. I think Cain is the more realistic option, because if the goal is for a big Mania match without the title, then it'll take more dates between now and then to sell that than I believe Fury can afford. What I mean is I am betting that Cain costs Brock the title, likely at the Rumble. Then shows up on Raw a couple of times to build to WM. Fury has a big fight coming up. He can do the match at Mania, but I don't see him being able to show up that often by then.

    But, if I were to pick whop it should be, I'd go with Fury. He's a star. Cain doesn't have that quality.

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    So the main page just reported that it is shaping up for Reigns to win the Rumble again (yawn) and go on to WM36 to face the Fiend, and to beat him. Boring. I said this in another thread, but if this happens, Reigns will get booed out of the building again. Twice.

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    Honestly, I just don't find myself especially interested in what they do with Brock, Cain, and Fury. They could make it a proxy match for the ownership of WWE with Triple H in one corner and Vince in the other and I still wouldn't be especially interested in what either combination did.

    It's not that I don't care, it's just that I'm completely indifferent.

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    Cain also looks small. He is tall, but he is no where near the shape he was in from MMA. If he wants to be taken more seriously now, as a pro wrestler, he needs to put some muscle back on.

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    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Nah, a two-time heavyweight champion in the Octagon is going to be taken seriously by most people regardless.

    The ones who won't will be the people more interested in it as performance, and they aren't going to be won over by a physique. The fact he's a part timer is going to count way more with them than his body.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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    All I know, is that when I saw him for the first time since the Lesnar fight in 2010, when he walked out with Rey on that SD, he did not look that impressive. Seriously. Styles and Bryan both who are shorter than Cain look more impressive. Yes Cain has his MMA background AND he already has legit beaten Lesnar, but Lesnar still looks like a Mother Loving beast.

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    Yeah, but you don't need to look that impressive when you're a two-time UFC Champion.

    It's like the point above: a case-by-case basis. If you've got nothing that makes you stand out, then a great body can make you look like an athlete, get people interested in you, convince them that you are legit in some way. But if you've fought another human being in a cage and become the world heavyweight champion at it, they already know you're tough as hell and can beat anyone on your day.

    And MMA has so much more credibility with wrestling nowadays that to the average person, you're going to be taken more seriously than most of the wrestling roster right off the bat. Sad, but that's the way it is with the way wrestling has gone.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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    I completely agree with everything you are saying. But my point is that WM always draws in the casual fan, and the casual fan may just look at Cain and say that 10 years ago yes, I would buy him beating Lesnar, but now look at him. The optics tell a different picture.

    I look at 30+ years ago, when George Forman came out of retirement and started boxing again at 38. He was still big and imposing and still threw these sledge hammer fists. Then at 42 you bought that he was a legit contender for the title, and he won it. If during his comeback, he was 20-30 pounds lighter, and just barely made the heavyweight weight limit, and was taking on guys much younger AND bigger, no one would give him a chance. But the fact that he WAS still big and imposing, people did not write him off.

    10 years is a long time, and Cain at 37 is a long way from his prime in the Octagon, and it's been 7 years since. Lesnar has maintained his size and shape where Cain hasn't. Again optics goes a long way. Plus, the WWE just had Lesnar squash Cain, and yes they can play that off anyway they want.

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    My point is that the casual fans are the ones least likely to think the way you're saying here. The evidence of recent years is they are the ones most impressed by MMA credentials.

    I see where you're coming from with the Foreman example, but imagine he was coming from a world in which people have credibility, into one where they don't - that's the equation you're dealing with nowadays when someone crosses from MMA to WWE (or wrestling generally). A nightmare from a kayfabe perspective, but the reality nonetheless.

    It's much more likely that you get a rebellion on the other flank from people who don't wanna see the match when there's main roster guys who aren't part time who can have the spot, then he suffers a credibility problem. Much more likely.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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    I think there's a lot of wrestling that still needs suspension of belief applied to it, and unfortunately the modern 'reality' style doesn't really help fans to do that.

    In a world where we're expected to believe Rey can step to Brock (no holds barred or otherwise), size should be the lowest concern when we think about something being believable.

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    I have no idea on which one of us is correct.

    But I know why the WWE signed Cain Velasquez. The match sells itself. I know that. But this is also from 10 years ago, and from what I have NOT read or heard anywhere is that the first match bumped the Network buyrates for Crown Jewel with their match. Granted Crown Jewel is NOT Wrestlemania, with the full fledged WWE promo/hype machine behind it, but still, you would have thought that their match would have drawn some mainstream media coverage, even to say it was a disappointment.

    However, if the WWE decided to bring in either one of the past two former UFC heavyweight champs, Stipe Miocic or Daniel Cormier, then I can see people getting excited. But Cain Velasquez has been basically out of the active MMA scene for almost 4 years, and has only (from what I can find) 4 professional wrestling matches, and one of those was a squash match against Lesnar. I am not sure he still has that 'former 2x UFC Heavyweight aura' about him, especially with Lesnar squashing him in their rematch.

    I am not saying to not have the match, nor am I saying that it should not be at WM36, all I am saying is that Cain Velasquez right now in 2019-2020 does not appear to be a threat to Brock Lesnar who has essentially never taken a day off from training or competing since college. Lesnar has been wrestling either in the NWA, WWE or in Japan since 2000, and has had at least 1 match per year. Then his UFC/MMA career was also mixed in with that. so Lesnar is a legit threat at any time, and has the resume and pedigree to back up everything Heyman says.

    Cain Velasquez has had only 2 MMA fights since he lost the title in 2015, one in July 2016 and one in February 2019 where he lost in 26 seconds on a TKO. I just do not see him as a threat to Brock Lesnar.

    Tyson Fury, is NOT a wrestler, but at least he is currently a multiple organizational Boxing Heavyweight Champion. A legit fighter. The match against Strowman was a trainwreck, but it was better than the squash loss that Velasquez had to Lesnar. I, and probably many others, could buy Tyson Fury knocking out Lesnar at WM, over Cain Velasquez standing a chance.

    But that is just me.

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    Size is always going to matter at some level. But we're talking about a guy who is 6 foot and 240lbs, right? A legit heavyweight whichever way you look at it.

    It's really not the same issue as when we were having the AEW conversation the other week, or if we wanna talk Mysterio. 'Horses for courses', as they say.

    EDIT: Honestly, the fact that Brock's been in wrestling all that time doesn't count for anywhere near as much, nor does the fact that he squashed him in a predetermined rematch.

    You've changed the phrasing in the more recent post to you won't take him seriously, and I can't speak to what you will take seriously. That's obviously a personal thing. But I'd bet my house that the more common reaction will be quite different from what the first post implied. If he flops, it'll be for different reasons.

    As to whether it draws any new faces... different question again. Honestly, I'm not really sure why anyone watches anymore, and I don't know what it'd really take to move the needle short of a root and branch reform of how you do wrestling - in the WWE or outside of it.

    But a legit tough guy is not going to have a credibility problem in pro wrestling because he doesn't have the physique he once did, when everyone knows he could beat 9/10 guys on the roster comfortably.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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    Not so sure Cain Velasquez is 240 anymore. He definitely looked at least 20-25 lbs lighter.

    Besides, Rey always used his size and speed to his advantage, and in the Lesnar match, they gave him weapons AND his son to attempt to beat lesnar, and he still couldn't, so it came off as plausible.
    Last edited by Powder; 12-04-2019 at 10:53 AM.

  17. #17
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    I think 240 is closer to his weight now and he was heavier than that in days gone by.... they called him 'light' for his Lesnar fight back when and he was over 240 then. Even so, he's a legit heavyweight in MMA, wrestling or boxing, however you slice it.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  18. #18
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    Roman main eventing would kick ass.

  19. #19
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    Coming from the person who wants Rock/Cena III in 3D.

  20. #20
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    I want it in 4K.

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    T.O., you have to stop thinking so small.

    Rock/Cena/Reigns Triple Threat. Once In A Lifetime. In 4DX.

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    Now you're talking!!!

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    Wrestlemania 36

    This discussion came out of another thread, but the current option and rumors for WM36:

    The options for the Main Event (s) so far:

    Fiend vs Reigns
    Lesnar vs Owens - seems like the logical build, have Owens beat Rollins at the Rumble to then face Lesnar at Mania
    Becky vs Asuka



    Rumor mills have:

    Becky vs Rousey as the hopeful main event for WM36, but it all depends on Rousey's status, but if that falls through we will most likely get:
    Becky vs Baszler, and as a last resort, Becky vs Charlotte.

    Lesnar vs Tyson Fury, obviously Lesnar drops the title ahead of time, but to who?
    Rollins vs Reigns

    And further rumors indicate that the WWE really wants Punk to wrestle, and to face Rollins.

    And finally, a long shot, but the Fiend vs Lesnar.

  24. #24
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    I actually could see them doing something with Rollins vs Reigns, to put the spotlight on the two remaining Shield members and almost push the narrative that these two are The Shield and there was definitely for sure no other member.

    I don't think that Punk will be back for 36. Let's see how this relationship looks come 37.

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    Powder, you literally started a WM36 thread a week ago, just a few posts down from here.

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    I thought so, but I guess I missed it looking for it. Eyes and memory are not so good in my elder years.



    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    I actually could see them doing something with Rollins vs Reigns, to put the spotlight on the two remaining Shield members and almost push the narrative that these two are The Shield and there was definitely for sure no other member.

    I think that was the general feeling. Push the 2 Shield Members that 'stayed loyal' to a main event spot at Mania, and finally have the 'All Shield' main event, even though we all wanted a Shield Triple Threat for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    I don't think that Punk will be back for 36. Let's see how this relationship looks come 37.
    And I would not 100% rule out a Punk return at WM36. I would say that the likelihood of him wrestling is about 4%, but anything is possible with Vince's bank account, and promising Punk that Main Event slot.

    It could even be that Rollins is the one to win the title from Lesnar after the Rumble, freeing him up to face Fury, and then Punk comes in to answer Rollins' challenge but forced Rollins to put the title on the line at Mania.

    Not saying at all it would happen, but I could, key word, could, see it happening.
    Last edited by Powder; 12-17-2019 at 03:29 PM.

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    Owens vs Lesnar would be the way I'd go with Raw. I like the idea of Fury vs Lesnar a lot, but I just don't see Fury's schedule working well for that. If I'm wrong, then I want Fury to cost Lesnar the title at the Rumble or on the road to WM, and then have a singles match without a title involved.

    If Lesnar vs Fury happens, I think Owens vs Rollins or McIntyre works well for the WWE Title at WM.

    On SD, Reigns vs Fiend makes the most sense. I agree it's not the most exciting, but I don't hate Roman, and don't think WWE has many guys that deliver a high profile match as well as he does. Roman vs Fiend is the biggest match the brand has.
    That said, it's entirely possible that it leads to Bryan, or even Kofi unseating the Fiend. I like the idea of both of them getting the underdog comeback from losing the title story. Or, my personal choice (but likely not the option WWE would go with) is for Kofi to get a chance at Rumble or on the Road to WM, and lose badly. Only for Big E to step up for WM. I got goosebumps thinking of an angry vengeful Big E in a hoss battle with Wyatt.

  28. #28
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    Fury's schedule definitely puts Mania in question. He has a fight in February, and I don't think he'd want a potential Mania match to distract from that. So negotiations for Mania aren't even on the cards until February 23, at which point I'm sure they want to know what they're doing with Brock.

    The everyman Kevin Owens vs the supreme athlete Brock Lesnar has a lot of appeal, in my opinion. Save Fury vs Brock for Saudi.

    Any word on when Cain will be back? Could they do Brock vs Cain II(III) at Mania?

    I actually wouldn't mind seeing Cain against someone like a Keith Lee, whom the office is very high on, in a spotlight match where Keith can show off his high flying against a larger opponent and Cain can introduce some of his lucha influenced offense on Lee.

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    Rock vs Cena

  30. #30
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    I completely forgot about Cain. I think if Fury falls through, then it most likely will be the situation you called for Fury. Cain costs Lesnar the title setting up Lesnar/Cain III.

    But the last I heard about Fury is that with his fight in February, that still gives plenty of time to heal and train for Mania 2 months later.
    Last edited by Powder; 12-17-2019 at 07:14 PM.

  31. #31
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    Very early WM36 card predictions:

    Lesnar vs Fury or Cain
    Becky (C) vs Baszler for the RWC
    Bayley (C) vs Banks for the SDWC
    The Fiend (C) vs Reigns for the SD Title
    Rollins (C) vs Owens for the WWE Title
    AJ Styles (C) vs Aleister Black for the US Title
    Strowman vs Nakamura (C) for the IC title - where he finally wins a singles championship
    The OC (C) vs The Street Profits for the RTTT
    The New Day (C) vs Heavy Machinery for the SDTTT
    Randy Orton vs John Cena - Orton challenged Cena and Cena has said he wants a big role and a match, and this makes the most sense

    Possibilities:
    Tomasso Ciampa (NXT Champion) vs Keith Lee - Ciampa wins the NXT Ttile from Cole either in February at Takeover Portland or in Tampa Bay in early April and retains at Takeover the night before WM36, and Keith Lee has already won a WM Title match against whomever is champion.
    Rhea Ripley vs Bianca Belair and Mia Yim in a triple threat for the NXTWT.

    The tag matches and the midcard titles are really hard to predict...but I gave it a shot.
    Last edited by Powder; 12-20-2019 at 09:55 AM.

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    So, whilst thinking about possible Mania opponents for The Fiend and Becky in the other threads, it struck me - I don't think any potential title match will close Mania this year.

    Personally, I can't see The Fiend vs Reigns closing.
    Becky vs Shayna also likely won't close given it's quite a gamble on Shayna if so (and also I don't think Mania has often ended with a heel winning?)
    Bayley vs Lacey definitely won't.

    The only possibility is that Lesnar holds the title and closes Mania out against whoever his opponent is. But do we really think they would run (for example) Owens vs Lesnar or McIntyre vs Lesnar as a show closer? I can't see it, although if they knock the build out of the park maybe. Possibly more of a shot if that match is against Valasquez or Fury, I suspect - even thought that holds no appeal for me personally.

    I feel like Mania not ending with a title match is a bit of a rarity - there are three instances that I can immediately think of, Reigns vs Taker, Cena vs Rock I, and HBK vs Taker II.

    I just wonder, if they aren't going to close out with a title match, what non-title match could they put there instead? Lesnar vs Cain/Fury non-title, I suppose - anything else look like a half decent option?

  33. #33
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    Last I heard was that Cain and Fury are out for Mania, so no idea.

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    It'll be Reigns vs Fiend. This will be the first WM with Fox involvement, so it'll be a Smackdown angle that headlines the show.

  35. #35
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    And Reigns will go over. I am still not convinced that IF/When he wins the Rumble that he will get cheered. And then IF/When he beats the Fiend at Mania I think he will get booed again.

    Yes, Reigns has been almost 100% cheered since his return from battling cancer. Yes, he has been out of the title picture for over a year. But something tells me that if the plan is for a Reigns Rumble win then Mania win, especially over the Fiend, and to close the show, he will get booed at both events.

    Now if the WWE (Vince) has anticipated this, and the plan is on the SD after Mania to use those boos to finally turn Reigns heel. Then I'm all for it. But, if he is not cheered, and the WWE continues to push him as the #1 face of the brand/company, I see it backfiring.

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    I'm OK with Reigns beating The Fiend. Someone's going to have to. And I honestly don't think he'll get that much hate on him, simply because the Fiend support has slowly cooled off among the more vocal part of the fanbase, from what I can tell.

    The money Mania match is Bryan vs Reigns, for me. I would love to see that.

  37. #37
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    The unfortunate thing is that Bryan recently turned back face, so there is no way to set that up, as the WWE is NOT turning Reigns heel prior to Mania.

    And when was the last time we had a face/face matchup at Mania, or anywhere?

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    Rock/Cena springs to mind. HBK/Flair, Batista/Undertaker, HBK/Taker, HHH/Taker - those never really had a defined face/heel split, as I recall.

    Outside of Mania, Bryan/Reigns at Fastlane. Bryan/Cena at SummerSlam.

    Just have Bryan win the title at the Rumble and Reigns win the Rumble. That's the set up. It's not heel vs face (although Bryan could easily bring in some shades of grey), it's just the title holder being challenged by the Rumble winner.

  39. #39
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    Of all of those matches the closest was 5 years ago, and I do not see anyone, including Bryan vs Reigns being worthy of a face/face match. Reigns is NOT Cena's status, regardless of how much the WWE wants us to believe he is and the other matches you mentioned have all time legends of the business with the exception of Reigns. Bryan is Bryan and could do whatever and make you believe it, but I do not Bryan vs Reigns without one being a heel happening.

    Bryan vs a Freshly turned Heel Reigns at SummerSlam 2020. YES YES YES!

    To be fair, Reigns will be a Hall of Famer, but he is NOT on the level of Bryan, Cena, HHH, HBK, Taker, or Batista where a face vs face matchup does not matter.
    Last edited by Powder; 1 Week Ago at 10:54 AM.

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