Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018

    The 'No Bullshit' Review - 2019 Special, Part II

    Welcome back Ė once again Ė to the ĎNo Bullshití Review. Earlier this year, we looked at four matches from the first half of 2019. Weíre going to repeat that today with the second half of the year. Between Summerslam, Takeover and the G1 Climax weíre weighted towards August in this column, because thatís when the big events have tended to be Ė but weíre going to round things off with a stop at the latest AEW PPV, Full Gear. Pretty much everyone we look at here is also getting the NBR treatment for the first time, with only two of the participants already appearing in our table. Anyway, with four matches to cover this is already going to be long enough, so letís get things underway!

    Adam Cole vs Johnny Gargano, NXT: Takeover Toronto, August 10th, 2019
    For the NXT Championship
    Scotiabank Arena, Toronto

    Iím intrigued going into this one, as I think Gargano has some tremendous assets, but some drawbacks that mean I match I rated highly when I first saw it Ė with Andrade Ė only just made it through by the skin of its teeth when I reviewed it here, so Iíve no idea how this one will go. On top of that this is our first look at Adam Cole for the NBR.

    The firstÖ. I dunno, ninety secondsÖ. of this bode well, but this is quickly becoming too fluid to really build up any kind of good will Ė too obviously performative to really give you any opportunity to suspend disbelief. Weirdly, itís something of an aerial spot that starts to build this up a bit more, because after some silly nonsense in the corner Gargano hits a good-looking clothesline and a low dropkick after running from the ropes that all looks decent. The sequence outside the ring is about as well-carried off as it can be. All in all, an inauspicious beginning, but you can see that both men are talented if nothing else.

    If this were an older match, theyíd suffer a strike simply for the commentatorsí inability to get on the same page as to whose advantage the first fall is, because Iím tutting away at the fact they donít know what story they want to tell. As a newer match, though, weíre limited to just actually shouting bullshit (or similar) at the TV, and I donít go that far. Nevertheless, they do seem to be at something like cross-purposes regarding who should have the advantage if the first fall is a traditional wrestling match. Ranallo seems out of step with the other two, but more in line with the characters. Answers on a postcard, I guess.

    They muddle along with this, not really building a lot but not doing anything too problematic, until about the ten-minute mark, when Adam Cole incurs strike one. He has been selling the injured knee for a while now, before heading to the top. This whole sequence is fraught with problems from the off Ė why on earth would you do it being the obvious logical issue, but beyond that he goes so quickly that he doesnít even give the announcers the time to sell the risk he is taking. It is a poor spot to employ at this stage of the match given what the story is. But thatís not what causes the bullshit Ė that comes when he lands, sells the knee for a second, and then runs at Gargano without any obvious impairment. Utter drivel. Beth tries to save him by reminding us off his injured leg after the fact, but no dice.

    They continue to keep me in a bad mood by standing in the ring and trading blows without trying to duck or block, something I might buy as a strategy from a bigger guy but should probably be considered silly even then. Adam Cole pops back to his feet for the very-WWE repeated selling on the clotheslines, something that can look pretty good in the right circumstances but at this stage Ė and with the supposed damage to his knee Ė just looks dumb.

    More problems come as there is another big spot to injure Coleís knee further, when he misses a superkick, gets his foot caught in the ropes, and Gargano jumps down into his caught leg, dealing some serious damage. I see what they are going for with these spots and the story they are trying to build, but the trouble is that the story makes Adam Cole look stupid, as if he doesnít know how to wrestle to try and protect his injury. Now, if thatís the story you want to tell thereís even a way to go about it, but because thereís no real hint of that story here, the effect is just that Iím not buying any of it. Bullshit two comes a few moments later, not when Cole starts lifting Gargano as if thereís nothing wrong with his base Ė Nigel just about saves him there Ė but when Cole starts throwing big kicks at Gargano with his supposedly injured leg. In the first fall of a 2/3 falls match. Heaven preserve us.

    A few seconds later. Gargano takes an Enziguri, no-sells it, and kicks straight back, and itís all over. They didnít even make it to the first fall, and this is supposed to be the traditional wrestling match portion of the bout. I dread to think what happened in the climax.

    Result Ė TOTAL BULLSHIT after 13:51

    Seth Rollins vs Brock Lesnar, WWE Summerslam, August 11th, 2019
    For the WWE Universal Championship
    Scotiabank Arena, Toronto

    This match starts out with Lesnar bringing some serious intensity, and with Rollins selling the ribs very well. Iím buying this one from the opening bell. Thereís a hint of not great stuff about the fact that Rollins throws a high kick Ė almost as if, much like Gargano the previous night, he doesnít really understand what a desperation attack should really look like Ė but they survive that moment and the transition of the momentum from there into the stomp is very well executed. Iím not entirely convinced by the idea of the Stomp as a major offensive move, but Michael Coleís excited squeals sort of carry the day.

    Iíd like a little more selling of the ribs as Seth takes control, but that is nit-picking a little. Heís clearly not moving freely, even though he is, as the commentators say, starting to believe in himself. The spot into the F5 could have looked awful but I think their timing just about gets them through that one OK Ė though I think it may have been Lesnar bailing out Seth, just a little. But Seth has dished out enough punishment that the F5 does seem to come out of desperation. All in all, no problems so far.

    We move into a sequence where Lesnar takes more and more control, and seems to enjoy picking apart Rollins, something that works quite well with his reputation as a destroyer. Rollins fights his way back into the match through a moment of opportunism, where heís able to use the ring post to his advantage Ė Lesnar sells well and another hit into the same post and the champion is down. This offers Rollins some time to rest those injured ribs and get a bit of air back into his body.

    My mood is soured for the first time by Seth springing back into the ring as part of his attack. Itís not as obviously bad as Coleís offense with his injured leg but I still donít buy your being able to pull that off after the beating heís been taking. Frankly, it just looks too good. I donít shout at the screen because theyíve got a lot of goodwill in the bank and Iím quite invested, but thereís no denying that ate into a lot of that goodwill. But they got some of it back with the bear hug spot! Man, I love that. So old-school and makes perfect sense given the match situation.

    The dives were massively gratuitous, only avoiding a strike because Lesnar managed to catch him on the third iteration. High risk manoeuvres should be, by their very definition, high risk. If thereís no risk, there is narratively no fucking point or interest. So, weíre up and down a bit through the last five minutes or so.

    The table spot at the end is a bullshit. I donít think you can attack someone outside of the ring and put them through a table and have the referee do nothing. Thatís poorly plotted out and I just donít buy it. I also donít really buy all Sethís aerial offence at this stage of the match, given the injury heís supposed to be working with. Credit where itís due, though, the set-up of this to get Lesnar on the table is reasonably well carried off Ė not as well as Michaels and Hart set-up the ring-announcer superkick in what amounts essentially to the same spot, but reasonably well.

    They are flirting with a second strike in the climax, mainly because Rollins is starting to look as rubbish as Cole at wrestling with an injury. Iíd probably buy into the frog splash as a Ďtaking punishment in order to give ití mentality, if it werenít for the sheer amount of these high risk moves that Rollins is performing. In the end, it feels more like time ran out on them before they could take another strike rather than they pulled the match back.

    Result Ė Pass with One Strike

    Jay White vs Kota Ibushi, G1 Climax 29 Final, 12th August 2019
    Nippon Budokan, Tokyo

    This is the second NJPW match weíve looked at for the NBR, and the first had the dubious honour of being the first match to fail on our ranking system. We have two completely different participants here, though. Iíd say I expect Kota to be the greater strike risk, with White perhaps being less obviously impressive but working the character stuff much better and maybe being more of a slow and steady figure. Weíll see as time goes on. Before the bell, Red Shoes Uno throws Bullet Club out of the arena, but Gedo manages to cut a deal so that he alone can stay at ringside.

    This is the first NJPW Iím watching since giving up on the promotion earlier in the year, and Iím reminded immediately of why I had more time for this than anyone else. The staging, the way this is shot, makes the wrestling feel important of the bat, and consequently makes the two men look like stars on the big stage. This is awesome and itís a real pity that there are still too many problems in the presentation for me to fully get on board, because there are so many things here that I could have really loved. Anyway, that occurs to me before theyíve even locked up.

    We donít start with the typical New Japan slow wrestling beginning, but instead we get a spot early on where Gedo gets caught interfering by the referee, so they immediately jump to reversing his negotiation and having him thrown out of the ring. Thereís some frantic bargaining outside but itís to no avail, and when Kota comes out to drag the unsuspecting White back into the ring the temperature in the room raises a notch. Good, good stuff.

    Once White counters Ibushi and takes control, though, thereís a lot of stuff on the outside involving attacks on his ankle using the guardrail. I donít shout bullshit because I know NJPW well enough by now to know that they have lax policies on such things Ė but to be honest, I can never enjoy these sequences. They almost always look like garbage, for one thing, but more to the point even when well-executed they drive home that this is fake nonsense and that nothing is at stake. If it happens once, itís outrageous, but if it happens all the time without consequence, itís stupid shit that shows everything up as stupid shit. So, after a promising start Iím immediately sat here feeling quite grumpy.

    In the following sequences, Ibushi is selling the knee hard and the commentators bring that out. A nice touch, but the danger with New Japan is that it often doesnít translate to the moves they do after an injury Ė and if Kota starts springing around on a supposedly bad wheel then you fear for the worst. Sure enough, after a few minutes we have a leap from the ground to a hurricanrana, and all the good work is undone again. Weíre less than eight minutes in and this feels, to me, so like all the NJPW matches that drew me in and then turned me off in the past. Iím expecting this to run a little longer just annoying me occasionally before the strikes come thick and fast.

    But Iím wrong. The first strike comes almost immediately after that. Kota beating White to his feet after a few minutes of punishment versus one desperation move is dubious enough, but I kinda go with it because Kota is the tough-as-nails babyface. But Kota starts running on his leg like itís fine and hits a powerslam before moving into all kinds of rolls and another springboard moonsault off the second rope. I shout bullshit, and this is exactly my fundamental problem with New Japan Ė beautifully set and some very nice stuff with the leg, but then they let themselves down by not working like someone who has a bad leg. The moves take precedence over the story.

    I think he probably avoids a second strike because Iím still thinking about the last, but heís still working like a kickboxer on a supposedly injured knee. Which is worse by the way, kicking with your injured leg or the other? Answer: They are both horseshit, because you canít get any power through an injured leg, but you base yourself on the injured leg when kicking with the other. This should be about as effective a tactic as punching with your legs tied together. But I digress. Kota misses a backflip and lands on his knees, selling hard. Again, not bad in itself but could create problems down the line unless he modifies his move-set to fit the story.

    Iíll save you the play-by-play Ė the next few minutes are an odd mix of the contrived and confused. Nothing stands out as particularly bad in its own right but taken together it is getting very hard to get into this match and is starting to feel like moves without much of a thread. This is where you half expect someone to say that it harks back to three previous NJPW matches between the two but I maintain if youíve got decades of watching wrestling and you canít tell what the story is supposed to be then it canít be that good. But maybe thatís just me. Anyway, they continue to live dangerously.

    The second bullshit, then, feels almost inevitable. It comes after around 15 minutes, and itís a simple miracle recovery from Kota Ibushi. White administers a Kiwi Crusher for a near fall to cut off a comeback, but after selling hard when heís back to his feet Ibushi is Ė once again Ė running like a spring lamb. Itíd be a bullshit even if he hadnít been selling his knee like heíd never walk the same after this. Taken together, Iím tempted to call it a double bullshit and fail it here and now. If only I was allowed to do that.

    Shortly after thereís a sequence (of only fair execution) leading to a ref bump, which brings Gedo back out and after a chop block, the two attack Ibushiís leg with a chair Ė breaking the chair in the process. When the referee recovers, White has Ibushi in a submission hold. Ibushi is able to get to the ropes and the match continues as the commentators speculate as to whether heís going to be able to stand.

    And they go straight from that to him jumping and kicking White in the head. Bullshit. Third strike and this one is out Ė with three strikes essentially all relating to the same issue, and inability to sell properly to fit the story.

    This match has reminded me both of what attracted me to New Japan in the first place, and why I gave it up within a couple of years.

    Result Ė Total bullshit after 20:39

    Chris Jericho vs Cody Rhodes, AEW Full Gear, November 9th, 2019
    For the AEW World Championship
    Royal Farms Arena, Baltimore

    The first few minutes of this match are great, and Excalibur is right when he says that there is a big fight feel for the match. Thatís ironic because other than this observation heís easily the worst thing about this opening phase. Iíve heard people praise him before but Iím not getting where that comes from at all. Maybe they love all the subjective things about commentary, but there are also things that are objective, and heís coming up snake-eyes on all of them, at least in the early going. But itís not overly hurting the match Ė JR is impeccable as you might expect and the two guys in the ring donít put a foot wrong Ďearly doorsí. In fact, weíre about seven minutes in before I notice Cody running in just begging to be powerslammed. I stay quiet, though Ė Iíd have to be in a very bad mood to shout at that.

    Codyís bump changes my mood. Yes, the seriousness of it raises some questions, but itís more that I canít for the life of me imagine why on earth youíd go for a suicide dive in that position. Itís strategically inept. Itís not a strike but itís changed the way Iím feeling. I might not be firing yet, but that does seem as if theyíve just loaded the bullets. I think this is the difference between the broad performance of Jericho, who can get away with what are some bad strategic decisions because he telegraphs his arrogance, and others, who donít communicate themselves to the audience in the same way and consequently struggle to get the same things over.

    On the other hand, where things arenít down to character work but physical execution, itís Jericho who isnít quite on form here, and heís just off on a lot of little things. None of them are particularly problematic in and of themselves but what weíre seeing is long stretches with no real problem other than I canít lose myself in it quite how Iíd like. Nevertheless, the scoreboard tells the most important story Ė and right now weíre over fifteen minutes in without a strike.

    They ran into a lot of danger in the moment that Hager clocked Cody. I could feel myself riling up in the moment and I reckon I was a split second away from shouting bullshit when JR said there was no way Aubrey could see what happened. Iím not sure I believed him, and Iím probably sat there with a dumb disbelieving look on my face, but it does buy them a couple of seconds Ė after which time, sheís throwing Hager out of the arena. So, she did see it, and she did punish him. They nearly cost themselves with an unconvincing execution here, but JRís intervention saved them (even if what he said turned out to be wrong). And with more than half of this match gone and a clean sheet, maybe Ė just maybe Ė this one can survive.

    Thereís a hint of miracle recovery about Codyís reversal into the Cross-Rhodes, but itís so fleeting that you could almost miss it. It stands out but I guess I just about buy it. But after a little bit of selling in the next exchange, where he trades punches with Jericho, itís all a bit much for me. Iím becoming convinced that the match is going to pass and with room to spare but in moments like that you can see how they are willing to flirt with the line and it makes you fear that the Gold Standard may be beyond them.

    Shortly after Jericho takes control again with a Codebreaker, and the strike comes soon after when Ė in full view of the referee, mind Ė he starts to lash Cody with a belt. I could potentially understand this as doing a favour to Cody by not calling it too early, given this is his one title opportunity, but once this becomes a beat down I donít think that option is in play Ė and it does really need to be acknowledged by the announcers, and while JR does eventually fulfil that role it comes way too late to be effective this time. What you get is the champion attacking his opponent with a leather strap and the referee doing no more than mildly remonstrate with him while for what feels like an eternity no one bats an eyelid - except me, who shouts bullshit.

    They nearly lose another in the final minutes as the referee spot with the push into a roll-up was one of the worst-executed versions Iíve seen in years. It couldnít have been more staged if it was on Broadway. Itís a new match, so it gets an easier time of it than older bouts, though the farting sound I make with my mouth would have to have counted in times gone by.

    But the last minute or so is well-executed, so weíre out of there with one strike. The way that they chose to play out the final couple of minutes after this match could well have counted as another strike against it, if it werenít for the policy that we end the review with the bell, not any post-match shenanigans.

    Result Ė Pass with One Strike

    A much more mixed picture here, then. In the first column, no match from 2019 failed Ė but here we have two of them, and neither really looked like they were going to be able to pass. The NXT match put up a particularly poor showing, it must be said. On the other hand, the WWE and AEW both managed to get a match through with just the one strike. You can check out what that does to our table below, but thatís all from me, so thereís just time to say thanks for reading and Iíll see you next time.

    Match					Date		Promotion	S/R	Time	
    Nick Bockwinkel vs Curt Hennig		02/05/87	AWA		0	23:34
    Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat		20/02/89	WCW		0	23:18
    Bret Hart vs Steve Austin		23/03/97	WWF		0	22:05
    Ricky Steamboat vs Randy Savage		29/03/87	WWF		0	14:35
    Hulk Hogan vs Andre the Giant		29/03/87	WWF		0	12:01
    Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase		27/03/88	WWF		0	09:27
    Brain Busters vs Strike Force		02/04/89	WWF		0	09:17
    Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker		05/10/97	WWF		1	29:55
    Chris Jericho vs Cody 			09/11/19	AEW		1	29:35
    El Hijo Del Santo vs Negro Casas	19/09/97	CMLL		1	24:01
    Daniel Bryan vs Kofi Kingston		07/04/19	WWE		1	23:45
    Dustin Rhodes vs Cody			25/05/19	AEW		1	22:30
    Razor Ramon vs Shawn Michaels		20/03/94	WWF		1	18:47
    Batista vs The Undertaker		01/04/07	WWE		1	15:51
    AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle			02/06/13	TNA		1	15:45
    Seth Rollins vs Brock Lesnar		11/08/19	WWE		1	13:25
    British Bulldogs vs Dream Team		07/04/86	WWF		1	13:03
    Kushida vs Drew Gulak			12/06/19	WWENXT		1	10:08
    Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada	03/06/94	AJPW		2	35:50
    Andrade Cien Almas vs Johnny Gargano	27/01/18	WWENXT		2	32:19
    Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels		05/04/09	WWE		2	30:44
    John Cena vs Daniel Bryan		18/08/13	WWE		2	26:55
    Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels		28/03/10	WWE		2	23:59
    Nick Aldis vs Marty Scurll		27/04/19	NWA		2	23:45
    Rey Mysterio, Jr. vs Juventud Guerrera	08/03/96	ECW		2	16:09
    Samoa Joe vs Nigel McGuinness		27/08/05	RoH		2	14:46
    Kazuchika Okada vs Kenny Omega		04/01/17	NJPW		3	29:54
    Kota Ibushi vs Jay White		12/08/19	NJPW		3	20:39
    Johnny Gargano vs Adam Cole		10/08/19	WWENXT		3	13:51

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  2. #2
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    When you said in the intro you were going to look at a match from Full Gear, I was kind of hoping for the Moxley/Omega abomination. That could have set a new record for Bullshit.

  3. #3
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    I toyed with the idea, and honestly I couldn't face it right now.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  4. #4
    Lamb of LOP anonymous's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    186 miles from Sheepster
    I love these by the way. Always read them but am an unknown lurker in these parts rarely comment.

    Can you do the same with main page columns?

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    This comment is the exact opposite to that which I wrote in the Early Wrestlemania edition of The NBR. Where older matches tended to lean more into psychology, newer matches void psychology by seeing how many cool moves they can for into the match. With the high tempo of matches in modern day wrestling it's hard to execute those flashy manoeuvres when your nursing an injury.

    With the increase in tempo these newer matches pose more of a risk with regards to getting called out on its bullshit. And because fans have become accustomed to this new style of wrestling, the wrestlers constantly need to increase the excitement of the moves in order to please the fans. And because of this the story of a match will always suffer. Especially when they're doing an injury angle. But in this case the commentators should do a better job of simplifying the reasons why wrestlers do what they do when they're in bad situations.

  6. #6
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Not seen any of these but the last! But I won't let that stop me...

    As an extreme Adam Cole detractor, I do take a petty pleasure in watching him flush a supposedly great match down the Bullshit drain singlehandedly. I suppose I can understand what people see in him, but he is surely not for me.

    For Rollins/Lesnar, I'm curious. You've made posts before to speak against small guys beating big guys, and the size and build difference between Lesnar and Rollins is pretty immense, and if I read correctly Rollins has injured ribs here. I wonder if the outcome itself doesn't come across as bullshit to you, or if there's an exception, or if I've misunderstood your thought process. I do also want to get your thoughts on the table spot, you gave New Japan a pass in this same column for some attacks involving the guard rail because New Japan is lax on that sort of thing, but for as long as I've been watching I feel WWE has also been lax about table spots, particularly any spot that involves a foreign object in a way besides one wrestler actually swinging it at another. A bit of food for thought, when these "lax policies" come into play seems a bit subjective.

    As a New Japan doubter, I do want to applaud you for zeroing in on what exactly feels off about the promotion to me with some very insightful comments here. I have been a big Ibushi fan in the past but he has fallen a bit for me in the last few years, as he seems to be perhaps the chief offender in the world when it comes to blowing off damage done earlier in the match. "The moves take precedence over the story" is a great line, and "This is where you half expect someone to say that it harks back to three previous NJPW matches between the two but I maintain if you’ve got decades of watching wrestling and you can’t tell what the story is supposed to be then it can’t be that good" resonated VERY strongly with me. If I had a nickel for all the times I've heard this argument in favor of Omega...

    Cody/Jericho is one I've seen, of course, and absolutely loved to the point of perhaps being my favorite match of the year. Your comment about Cody's attempted dive that ended up in his injury was interesting to me, it's not the way I remember it but then again I was so deeply invested in the story that I'm sure I was willing to give miles of leeway to what they did. I am curious to hear more of your thoughts against Excalibur. I'm also very much not used to anyone referring to JR as "impeccable" in 2019! But he does always seem to come back into form when Cody's in the ring. Perhaps they would do better to use him more sparingly.

    Very good stuff Pete!

  7. #7
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Nony - Thanks for the feedback mate, appreciate you stopping by!

    Don Franc - I wouldn't be surprised if you were right about all this, and there's a decent chance that - more often than not - it tracks historically on the lines you've laid out here. I guess finding out is part of the fun though!

    Mizfan - Couple of things here I guess. With Rollins vs Lesnar, I there's definitely a size issue here. There are two things to factor in. One is that when you get to the heavyweight division and have legit heavyweights, then the divide is less stark. In sports terms, the difference between two heavyweights 40lbs apart is seen as a lot less stark than the same weight differenceif it were a middleweight taking on a heavyweight. I can go into the reasons of why, if you like, but the gist is that the rules aren't the same for everyone - beyond a certain point you're going to get more leeway.

    The other point is that I don't have firm position on whether the result is bullshit or not - it's about how you get there. If you put the time in to getting there naturally making it believable, making everything fit and putting it together, then I'll accept pretty much anything. I can bring in your comment on the Savage vs DiBiase shenanigans here - yes, it's an overbooked ending, but there's no bullshit there, because they cover everything. There's no just doing stuff because they want to do it and not caring what it looks like to people who want to stay in the moment. That's very much the difference between most of the matches in the last column, and most of this one.

    As for the NJPW/WWE thing.... I don't think it's subjective so much as NJPW being lucky that I don't know them so well. As far as I know, there's never been a period where such things in NJPW have been more frowned upon, because I went from watching in Japanese to watching the current era, where I got much more information from the English commentators. The WWE, on the other hand... I mean, I guess you might say the WWE has been lax on table spots for some time now, but I know for a fact that they weren't, and it was supposed to be against the rules, and then one day without explanation it was like they just stopped caring. If it could be demonstrated to me that NJPW had done the same thing, then I'd probably hold them to the same standard. But I don't know it, and being at a cultural remove, they get more benefit of the doubt. It's that simple really - there's a gap in my head that stops me shouting bullshit because rather than getting angry, there's a voice in my head that says 'eh, that's just Japan'.

    Now, leaving the series behind and thinking about my own enjoyment - no, it has the same negative effect in both places. For whatever that's first. But I find I shout at one and not at the other.

    As for Jim/Excalibur... it's like I say in the column, there's stuff about announcing that's objective, and stuff that's subjective. Excalibur, I haven't heard a huge amount of but the bits I have heard have been bad at the objective stuff, like stumbling over words repeatedly and the like. Jim, meanwhile, whatever you think of his performance on the subjective stuff, never puts a foot wrong on the objective. Jim suffers partly because he's been so good in the past and so people end up naturally comparing him to his 'greatest announcer' reputation, while sometimes lesser commentators just have to get through a broadcast without shitting the bed. It's kinda like how certain politicians just have to get through a debate while people with better reputations have to win comprehensively just to draw, y'know?

    There's also much more negative reasons for some people piling into Ross that seem apparent to me. I think there's an element of people being against him because he's an older feller, there's an element out there against him because he was the voice of the WWE, and there's an element out there because he represents fans and a style of wrestling that a big proportion of the indy fans who became AEW fans want to kill off and drive out once and for all.

    Now, the other thing is... you can overlook the objective stuff in making your subjective decision. It's possible to not care about the things Jim does well and Excalibur does badly, and react positively or negatively to the purely subjective aspects of their performances. It just means you won't be very good at picking who should go on TV to appeal to a broader audience, if you look mainly at that side of things.

    Man, you gave me a lot to respond to on that one. Thanks for giving me some food for thought!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  8. #8
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    I'd be curious to know if your thoughts on Ross might change if you heard more of his current work, but I'll take your point! I find Excalibur very likeable, which I think shouldn't be discounted when looking at broad appeal, but there are things he could do better. Appreciate the lengthy feedback on your side as well!

  9. #9
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    I tend to believe on the subjective side that he peaked around 1996, and the recent clips I've heard suggest nothing is likely to change that. There's nothing wrong with it, per se, but it's less to my taste than his older, pre-Attitude style.

    Outside of the PPV match the one who has come off best for me is Schiavone, and if I was feeling particularly scathing I might add a lot of that could be that he talks the least....

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  10. #10
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Sounds like we need a No Bullshit Review of commentators through the years!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts