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  1. #1
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    The Rise of Skywalker - Spoilers allowed

    As is our norm, starting a thread for Star Wars IX: The Rise of Skywalker where people can discuss the new film without having to worry about spoilers. Eventually we'll merge it into the normal Star Wars thread once plot details are no longer sensitive.

    The one thing I ask is that you put a couple of nondescript sentences at the start of your post that don't contain any plot points, so that spoilers don't accidentally end up in the general news feed. Once you've got it hidden away, then talk about the film as much as you like!

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    I'll comeback to this on Sunday once I've seen it... For sure I'll want to gather thoughts and opinions on it.


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  3. #3
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Thanks, I'm going Friday night, so I am not going to look until Saturday....

  4. #4
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    I went to see it early this morning and my initial reaction is the same as that I had after Episode VII (it's as if the same guy directed them both!) - which is that I absolutely loved it, but recognise it has a number of issues. I have had a more positive reaction after the first viewing than I did to The Last Jedi which is never a bad thing, but whether it'll grow on me as much as The Last Jedi has since I first saw it is obviously what remains to be seen.

    Spoilers follow.

    The main issue was, sa expected, the continued conflict between Abrams' ideas and Rian Johnson's choices in VIII. There was a sense of both making up for lost ground, accepting what been done in the interim and course correcting back to an original position all at the same time, and that meant one or two narrative shortcuts that felt galling (how Chewie and Lando were so successful getting reinforcements so swiftly and convincingly off screen, for instance) but most of all it meant the entire central conceit of the story - being Rey's heritage - felt like a Death Star sized retcon.

    I can easily imagine Abrams envisioned this as the endgame from when he first started with VII. There were too many nicely fitting pieces for it not to be the case, and I remember fans correctly guessing (as it turns out) Rey's heritage at the time of Episode VII too. Kudos to those that did, incidentally! But the fact it wasn't just not fleshed out in VIII but actively rewound I think ultimately put IX in a place where its success depended on whether you were prepared to roll with that particular punch. If you reject it, I'd anticipate the entire film just falls to pieces.

    I also felt there was an obvious lack of a truly engaging action set-piece, like a Battle of Yavin, Hoth or Endor, and that the big climactic space fight was too shapeless to really feel like the final fight of a decades long struggle between good and evil. I also felt the confrontation between Rey and Palpatine seemed to suffer from the same thing too.

    So it had plenty of its own flaws - though frankly, I think Abrams was onto a losing battle from the beginning when it comes to how people will receive it. The Last Jedi was so deeply divisive he was left in a position where he had to please two, even three wildly divergent camps of fan opinion. I think he did the only sensible thing you could do in that position, and stay true to your own vision leaving everyone else to fall down where they will on whether to like it or not. I for one think overall he did a damn good job.

    Large stretches, especially inside the first 90 minutes, felt like classic Star Wars fare and it took up this amazing shape of an old fashioned adventure yarn just like the OT did. Tinged with the dark peaks at the universe falling further into the thrall of the First Order I thought was making it look to be a franchise best. The wider circumstances prevented it from being that I think, but I would venture that its emotional core - and bizarrely I've seen some say it's emotionally hollow!!! - is the most effective of any of the 9 films. Interestingly, though, that core wasn't the conclusion of Rey's story but rather the conclusion of Kylo Ren's, and the scene after the duel about the wreckage of Death Star II with that cameo had me weeping like a child.

    Then there's the Leia situation - another big ask of Abrams going on of course. While certain use of old footage early felt really awkward, I think staying true to the arc he'd obviously envisioned for her so early on was a good idea and proved immensely effective anyway, in my mind, when it came to its big climax. And the little winks to her life between trilogies and the role it came to play in how everything turns out ultimately, I thought, proved magical.

    I'll need a second viewing before I make some firm decisions about it, but my initial emotional reactions to it are largely very positive, while acknowledging it continued to exhibit the same flaws both other Sequels did, in their own ways (for all the talk of TLJ being a huge step away from the OT, I'd vehemently disagree). Was it a bit obvious? Absolutely. Was it trapped in nostalgia again? Absolutely. But did it work? For me, absolutely. I can't wait to see it a second time. It's such a busy film there's loads to unpack in it on its own terms; even more, when you consider it part of a larger Saga.

    One last observation. I think, interestingly, the Sequel Trilogy has probably presented three of the best films in the Saga for future stand-alone viewing on their own terms, but collectively have delivered, by some distance, the weakest Trilogy of the three. That probably speaks to how much it'll be defined by the conflicting visions of Abrams and Johnson, which has given Disney a hard lesson I hope they learn for the future.

  5. #5
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Great round up there Plan. I just got back from my first viewing which I did as a double date with my wife and the biggest star wars fans we know. First time we've been out to see a film since End Game actually (is that enough filler PT?)

    Spoilers to follow

    I freakin loved it.

    Of course I did, I've loved every single Star Wars movie first time I watched them and for most movies that is the case. However this one I was specifically predisposed to love because it really felt like a movie made unapologetically for Star Wars fans. There were so many winks and nudges that it could have easily been cheesy but it all felt in service of the story.

    I was also predisposed to love it because just as Force Awakens was incredibly similar to A New Hope, this one (particularly the ending) was incredibly similar to Return of thr Jedi. People used that as a stick to beat Force Awakens but I never cared and ROTJ happens to be my favorite Star Wars movie so I really enjoyed the way the battle above was influencing the battle Rey was fighting and vice versa, very much mirrored my favourite scene in Star Wars, The Throne Room.

    Into some more detailed analysis, I think the real high point of the movie was the performances of Daisey Ridley & Adam Driver. Those two drove the narrative and gave everything so much emotional punch. I absolutely loved every lightsaber duel they had because of all the subtext going on. For me lightsaber duels are always all about what is going on underneath the action which is why something like Grevious v Obi Wan is immensely forgettable despite the incredible action whereas the Throne Room duel is so fantastic. Every time Ben & Rey fought there was so much going on emotionally and with the character's motives. The battle on the fallen Death Star may be one of the best duels in the entire series, although a few more viewings will be needed to attend to.

    I will say I didn't get the same vibe as you with the final battle Plan. I think it's possibly because I was watching it so through the frame of ROTJ which I just watched and loving how Palpatine was again trying to use this trap he had lured a Jedi's friend's into to force them into embracing their anger and hate. The air battle felt goalless but I felt it was kind of the point, they were in there on a fools mission and didn't stand a chance until they got help. I also loved the conclusion where Rey reflected all the Emprors power back on him and he was consumed by his own twisted hatred and anger.

    As to some other criticism that i personally didn't hate but more some molehills I just know people are going to make into mountains. There did feel like some moments where JJ was intentionally taking jabs at the things Rian Johnson did, particularly the bit around Luke saying "don't throw away important things" after catching the lightsaber. The point is that Luke has learnt he is wrong but without looking anywhere (this is the first place I've gone since seeing it) I can already hear the keyboards clacking about that. There are also some plot holes, as you pointed out Plan, particularly with how they assembled help so quickly but couldn't for the battle at the end of LJ but personally I don't think there was anything irredeemable.

    So long story short, I freakin' loved it.

    Cannot wait to see it again.
    Last edited by SirSam; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:52 AM.

  6. #6
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    So I spent the rest of the day yesterday sort of digesting everything, thinking on it and what-not, and I've really started to fall rather quite in love with the film. I know I'm double-posting at length here, so apologies for that, but I'm aching to share some observations, specifically about character arcs at this point but some other wider points too.

    Lots of spoilers to follow - so if you're seeing this in the news stream, look away!

    Before I do though, I did want to also say that I LOVED a lot of the symmetry with the rest of the Saga.

    First, the soundtrack was littered with so many musical cues, some of which were so subtle you could easily miss them - from The Throne Room to the Imperial March, Leia's Theme, Rey's Theme, March of the Resistance, The Force Theme, but also Binary Sunset, Across the Stars, I'm pretty sure I even picked up on some General Grievous inflections too! Coupled with original tracks - like A New Home in particular - I thought, while it lacked that one iconic centrepiece theme Wars films often have, its amalgamations were beautiful and rousing and emotional.

    Then there were all the overt nods to the past too. Obviously we had a lot of repeated lines, like the conversation between Ben and Han among the wreckage of Death Star II (more on that later!), but so many others that were just the odd one-liner or throwaway reference. "The Dark Side is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural" was probably my favourite of the lot, but I also loved the way Palpatine seemed to be guiding Rey to kill him at the end - "You step towards the throne, you lift your saber etc." - evoked Snoke's death in TLJ, even down to Ben vs. Knights of Ren mirroring Kylo and Rey vs. the Praetorian Guards at the same time. Tremendous. But there's so much on that front to break down I could write thousands of words on it alone!

    There were set-pieces that nodded to previous instalments too. Rescuing Chewie from the Star Destroyer? There's IV. A chase on speeders through a desert? There's I. A Throne Room confrontation? VI. A search for a missing Force user? There's VII. A duel amid raging waters leading to redemption? There's an inverted image of III!

    But also, I specifically loved the evocation of more intangible factors. Structurally, it reminded me so much of Empire. Tonally, it felt very Rogue One. It had a sense of near constant-momentum like large portions of Menace has. Emotionally, it was as compelling as Sith and as weighty as ROTJ. Its basic plot even evoked elements of both Awakens and TLJ too. Just loved it. It felt like pure, unfiltered Star Wars, for reasons beyond the obvious nostalgia trips. A true ending to a Saga.

    And then there's the character arcs. Oh my, so much going on here.

    First, Palpatine's return. At first glance, I could understand why some might feel it's jarring or just another poor excuse of a nostalgia trip. In actuality, I think it was pretty perfect, everything the man does. He's obviously been hiding since the Battle of Endor, pretty much knocking on death's door and his position of strength no longer consolidated, manipulating events from behind the scenes unbeknown to everyone. Sound familiar? IX recasts the Sequels as the mirror of the Prequels, and that helps contextualise Snoke.

    The clone explanation I can see, on the surface, as being considered a lazy effort at reconciling one of Johnson's more unexpected decisions, but it fits in with the mythos and Palpatine's character pretty perfectly. His first rise to power was wrought largely by a pretence, an avatar acting on behalf of his true self. Back then, that was Senator / Chancellor Palpatine. He couldn't pull that trick again after ROTJ - the whole galaxy knows who and what he was, and he's been considerably weakened. So instead he retreats to his hiding place and does the same thing a second time - uses an avatar to work his will for him. Only this time, it was someone new in the form of Snoke. (I accept the relationship between Palpatine and Snoke is currently largely undefined and it's unclear how much of Snoke's doing was by accident or design, but this is the Emperor we're talking about - it's no stretch to imagine it was largely the latter.)

    And on both occasions - the Prequels and Sequels - he seemingly waited until he was practically guaranteed a victory before revealing his true intentions: the moment the Skywalker fell. Why would Palpatine wait until IX to reveal himself? Why then? The same reason he waited until he did in III. In the Prequels, when (Anakin) Skywalker fell Palpatine's win was assured. In the Sequels, when (Luke) Skywalker fell Palpatine's win seemed to be assured again, so he made his move. What's more is, we know from Snoke's dialogue in VIII (as the apparent avatar of Palpatine) that he was unaware until that point that Luke Skywalker wanted the Jedi to end, and if we remember Episode VII was all about the race to find and kill Skywalker, why? To prevent the return of the Jedi Order.

    Once Luke's lost soul was revealed, and once he fell at Crait, Palpatine could move free in the knowledge that not only would the Jedi Order not be returning but, of course, there was no Skywalker to stop him this time – apparently.

    Which brings us, of course, to Ben Solo and his mighty Skywalker blood. There are various ways to read Palpatine's interactions with Kylo in IX, but this is my reading, which chooses to accept the surface presentation. In the way IX unfolds we see why Ben's journey was so obsessive around Darth Vader – it turns out, all along, Palpatine wanted to turn him ready for the Sith to live on through him, supposedly, apparently, as the new Emperor. (Palps says similar to Rey, but we'll get to her!). “A new Vader,” is what Snoke – through whom, metaphorically at least, Palpatine spoke – says in VIII. Having failed to turn Luke at Endor, Palpatine now seeks to turn Ben instead. Seems logical to me, and is of course what fuels Luke to go into exile.

    The problem is that Palpatine has no redeeming features, and so cannot possibly understand the complexities of the Light Side. He's fuelled only by hatred and a desire for power. Ben, like Vader, was not; but Ben, unlike Vader, wasn't fuelled by a fear of loss either. He was fuelled by an anger at apparent rejection, and later exacerbated through his actions as he falls into the thrall of the Dark Side and the onset of a belief he couldn't be forgiven – especially for killing his father (which as Snoke says, leaves him further unbalanced). Leia does forgive him though, by reaching out to him, and so does Rey in saving his life; and, of course, Han's memory too. And Han is the crucial part to Ben's story. Ben is not entirely a Skywalker, and where “that mighty Skywalker blood” is always called to the Dark Side, Ben had one part Solo for every part Skywalker. This is what now makes Solo a crucial and essential movie telling a story that needs telling.

    Han's inherent goodness is the running theme of Solo and of his entire arc – from his last minute change of heart at the end of IV, his first-hand experience of the Empire's cruelty in V, his war heroics in VI and his confrontation of Ben in VII. Solo takes the running theme there and comments on it explicitly: Han pretends to be the bad guy, but is inherently nothing but good. And that goodness, I believe, is what makes turning Ben doomed to failure from the beginning, as opposed to Anakin's being fated to succeed from the start. It's not the Skywalker in Ben that makes the difference in the end, but the Solo! The Solo film helps to really drive that home.

    Then there's the manner of his redemption and how that further mirrors Anakin's story. Remember that line Luke is given - “He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view”? Well, in IX, that torn man that was Kylo is destroyed. He ceased to be Kylo Ren and became Ben Solo (again). Quite the opposite from being a retread of Anakin's story, Kylo's is a haunting mirror image.

    There's a sweet irony to that too, as it means that, where Kylo spent his whole life trying to be a new Darth Vader and inevitably failed, Ben succeeded. More than that, he achieved what Vader – and, crucially, Palpatine – never did. He saved the one he (I think?) loved from certain death, restoring Rey's life in a moment demonstrating the power that Anakin had so desperately searched for. Ben didn't just achieve what his grandfather achieved; he achieved everything his grandfather never could. There's something beautiful in that.

    Speaking of Anakin, his legacy as the Chosen One, it's worth noting, wasn't negated by IX but reinforced. Palpatine's plan in IX is to allow the Sith to be “reborn” - the clear semantic intonation there is that the Sith are all but extinct, and certainly destroyed. Anakin's redemptive action at the end of ROTJ destroyed the Sith – there was no more apprentice and the master was left as little more than a cadaver. As a result, IX becomes less a partner to ROTJ and more a partner to III, only this time it's about resurrection rather than revenge. So yes, the Chosen One did still destroy the Sith.

    By the end of the film, of course, Palpatine has turned to Rey to try and do that. On my notes about Palpatine seeking to use Kylo, the reason I accept that at face value is because of all the stuff in the movie about the Sith assassin tracking down Rey's parents. I may be mistaken here, I have only seen it once after all so far, but isn't something said about him wanting to kill Rey because she could be a threat to him? If there was, then there's symmetry there with why they hide the Skywalker twins of course. If not then I guess his plan was to use Rey but, when she disappeared from his sight, he instead turned to Ben. Either way I can easily take Palps at his word with the deal struck at the start of IX.

    As for Rey's parents, that's obviously the big ask from IX. At first it was difficult for me to swallow. But having thought more on it, I can make the pieces fit enough to be entirely comfortable with the notion. Kylo does, after all, tell Rey “they were no-one because they chose to be no-one.” It makes sense to me, then, that we'd never have heard about them before, reinforcing their success in hiding her, and while I know plenty of fans liked the fact Johnson decided to intimate Rey was nobody this is Star Wars, it is based on fantasy tropes and it's far more recognisable a trope to me that the hidden impoverished girl turns out to be descended from royalty, than the nobody becoming the hero (it feels like, anyway). So I have no real issues on that front. It also plays into the cool idea they introduced about a didact in the Force, and how that created an energy for Palpatine to feed off of at the climax. That same idea even played on the theme of balance that ran through VIII and is central to notions of the prophecy in the Prequels: a further link between the two Sagas that sit either side of the Originals then.

    I absolutely adore the idea that Rey's training happened off-screen under Leia's stewardship, and I am enthused by the notion of the Palpatine line being almost as key to the galaxy's fate as the Skywalker line. After all, I think it's now hinted in the extended canon that Palpatine guided the midichlorians to facilitate Shmi conceiving Anakin in the first place, which would mean both families were intertwined from before even the start of the Saga.

    I also liked the way Leia's call to Ben exhausted her to the point of death, intimating at the difference in discipline, at least, if not power, between her call to Ben and Luke's confrontation of Kylo. And that makes the scene between Luke and Leia on Crait – itself a mirror image of their scene on Endor in VI – all the more emotional. Luke tells her then he can't save Ben, before reaffirming to her his knowledge, born from his experiences with Vader, that nobody is ever truly lost, thereby, as Yoda instructs, at least in part “passing on what he has learned.”

    Luke's arc is wound up nicely here too – he literally takes Kenobi's place! But, following on from Yoda's final instruction of passing on what he's learned, he does just that, preventing Rey from exiling herself out of fear just as he had done before her. It's obvious, and it works, and it both redeems Luke's mistake from VIII while at the same time giving him closure as a character.

    All this before diving into Poe's journey that I thought carried on his VIII arc quite intelligently, as well as some bits with Chewie – who threatened to end up where he began – and the ascent of Finn from being the Stormtrooper that ran to the Rebel about to sacrifice; but I feel like I've already rambled on too long!

  7. #7
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    Loved that, Plan.

    I really, really enjoyed the film. Like Plan, I think it worked hard to tie up pretty much everybody's story in a couple of hours plus change, which is quite a task when you consider the length, depth, and breadth of the whole 9 film series. It moved at a really breakneck pace to do that, something that I think may have hurt it a bit but only a little. It was fun, it was deep, it hit every plot point I would have wanted it to, and stands as a bit more fan service (more on that in a minute)

    That said, I had a number of issues with the opening bits, which made me feel like Abrams was almost trying to reclaim aspects that he wanted to be important in the second film but Johnson had previously addressed or decided not to pursue - Palpatine felt like he was dropped in to replace Snoke, Rey's grandfather being Palpatine felt like a way of addressing her parentage being revealed as unimportant being the main two that stuck out to me.

    But once I just decided to accept those and run with it I really enjoyed the whole film. I didn't love the ending, but it ended up being a very 'Star Wars' ending which...well, read that how you like.

    Ultimately, I found myself wishing that either Abrams had written TLJ or Johnson had written RoS. I'd really like to see how the latter would have worked out, but that's because I love TLJ and rank it an easy second in the trilogy trilogies (Rogue One might push it out to third if we take all films into account).

    I think what this film does, rightly or wrongly, is stand as a Star Wars film - it thematically laid down all the Star Wars tropes you would expect, right down to the return of ghostly Jedi at the end, the force power running through Rey in her moment of need, the theme that light will eventually overcome dark (no more apparent than in Ren/Solo's storyline, even accounting for the whole film being about that), parentage/family lines being important, and at it's heart was just a big soft film.

    Abrams did that with Force Awakens, Johnson decided to tear some of it up in TLJ (possibly why I like it so much), and Abrams brings it back in this one.

    Ultimately, it's a good, satisfying watch. It never felt like it was wasting it's time on screen, and everything that happened felt important - probably why it runs by so quickly despite being a pretty lengthy film, really.

  8. #8
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    On the Snoke point, I have read that the intention of Abrams and Kennedy from the start was to bring Palps back - but obviously they might just be saying that. I do also recall some fans predicting a connection between Rey and the Emperor back when VII came out, specifically pointing to the way she uses the saber in the final duel in VII reflecting the way Sidious fights in III. Where that would have left Snoke if it had always been the intention though, I have no idea.

  9. #9
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    A lot of people are calling BS on that particular line, for me it highlights the unfortunate fact that they didn't really plan the trilogy as one entity, there could have been plenty of time in a second movie that didn't subvert things so much to reveal Palpatine but I can understand the jarring nature of it.

    Against my better judgement I checked out a few reviews and threads on the movie and seems like we are very much in the minority who enjoyed it.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    Just came back from watching it. Will take some time to fully digest it all for sure and come back with a more detailed post, but I'm mostly in agreement with the thoughts on the thread. Absolutely loved it, but with the acknowledgement that some points were a stretch.

    Spoilers below!





    Just to mention something that hasn't yet been mentioned, the biggest gasp in my viewing from the audience wasn't the Rey parentage reveal. Funnily enough, it was that Hux was the spy. That threw me off for a good 5 minutes as I considered how was that possible, given the previous two films, but I think, if I'm not mistaken, that he decided to defect after the events of TLD?

    Also, maybe it's just me, but some of the force powers seemed a little too... inconsistent. Within the film but also compared to previous films. Force ghosts manipulating actual objects (saber), Rey and Ben's connection and duels while on different planets/ships, Rey easily manipulating the ship with Chewie on using the force while Luke (force ghost) not so easily rising the X Wing out of the sea... It's small things, and to be honest if you just go with it, it's fine, but the issue with having so many films is you have more to compare it to.


    But like I said, loved it as a whole. Have to say the parentage question... I was duped. Didn't even consider it could be who it was.


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  11. #11
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    I'm not going to say that I called Hux or Rey's lineage prior to the film, bc I did not hoave a clue, but once the film got going, and once they had that board meeting at the table where Kylo force choked (insert the correct name here) I knew that Hux was the spy.

    Also once Rey did the force lightning in the desert, I knew.

    But up until those points. Not a damn clue.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    SPOILERS




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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Also once Rey did the force lightning in the desert, I knew.
    Oh yeah, at that point I twigged, I meant leading up to watching the film, Palpatine didn't cross my mind. Once Rey showed she had force lightning, it was a logical conclusion.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gooner View Post
    Just came back from watching it. Will take some time to fully digest it all for sure and come back with a more detailed post, but I'm mostly in agreement with the thoughts on the thread. Absolutely loved it, but with the acknowledgement that some points were a stretch.

    Spoilers below!





    Just to mention something that hasn't yet been mentioned, the biggest gasp in my viewing from the audience wasn't the Rey parentage reveal. Funnily enough, it was that Hux was the spy. That threw me off for a good 5 minutes as I considered how was that possible, given the previous two films, but I think, if I'm not mistaken, that he decided to defect after the events of TLD?

    Also, maybe it's just me, but some of the force powers seemed a little too... inconsistent. Within the film but also compared to previous films. Force ghosts manipulating actual objects (saber), Rey and Ben's connection and duels while on different planets/ships, Rey easily manipulating the ship with Chewie on using the force while Luke (force ghost) not so easily rising the X Wing out of the sea... It's small things, and to be honest if you just go with it, it's fine, but the issue with having so many films is you have more to compare it to.


    But like I said, loved it as a whole. Have to say the parentage question... I was duped. Didn't even consider it could be who it was.
    Hux wasn’t defecting so to speak. As he said in the film, he just wanted Ren to fail. All he wanted was to be the leader.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    SPOILERS
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    I get that, but in my opinion that kinda made it worse I think from a story point of view, as it means he was willing to risk the whole First Order just to get rid of the main guy at the front. Not sure I buy that. Considering he gave the order of destroying the Hosnian system in TFA among other things, he was pretty ingrained in the First Order mentality, so it seems a stretch that he'd be the one to defect. Maybe the extended universe will elaborate on it a bit later on, but to me it felt a shock just for shock's sake.


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  15. #15
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Hux was completely embarrassed by the failure of Star Killer Base, and then was further embarrassed by Snoke in TLJ, and for Kylo Ren's fortune. All he wanted was to be in charge and to have Ren get his. So while it would never happen in real life, it makes movie sense.

  16. #16
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Seen it now. Thought it was fine. Enjoyable enough. Would neither rave about it nor rage about it.

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  17. #17
    The new characters are bland, melodramatic, and lacking. Wish the Sith lord destroyed that universe
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  18. #18
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Re the Hux point, the logic I think is meant to work the other way round Gooner - the fact that his hatred for Kylo Ren is so all-consuming by the time of IX, he's willing to risk even the First Order to ensure Ren 'loses.' It's also worth noting both the way Hux is treated throughout the film and the time gap. People I think tend to forget that VII and VIII really are one film - they happen literally right after each other. IX is, I believe, meant to be a year after VIII, and in it we see Hux essentially abused by Ren relentlessly. It's easy to imagine there's been a solid year of that sort of torture, which would be enough to rip apart anyone's world view I'd imagine.

  19. #19
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    There has to be more than a year between 8 and 9 simply because at the end of 8 the rebellion has about 20-50 people with no ships, then at the beginning of 9, they had established another base, with many ships and plans.

    I would say 2-3 years.

  20. #20
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    It was confirmed at the end of 2018 that the gap was about a year, for the record. When they were dropping little bits of info to get hype going.

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  21. #21
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel 'Plan View Post
    Re the Hux point, the logic I think is meant to work the other way round Gooner - the fact that his hatred for Kylo Ren is so all-consuming by the time of IX, he's willing to risk even the First Order to ensure Ren 'loses.' It's also worth noting both the way Hux is treated throughout the film and the time gap. People I think tend to forget that VII and VIII really are one film - they happen literally right after each other. IX is, I believe, meant to be a year after VIII, and in it we see Hux essentially abused by Ren relentlessly. It's easy to imagine there's been a solid year of that sort of torture, which would be enough to rip apart anyone's world view I'd imagine.
    Mmm... I think it could have been dealt with better then, seems to have been a very convenient plot device. Possibly one of the things JJ Abrams had to "fix" from Last Jedi...


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  22. #22
    Just saw it yesterday. Thought it was a great movie. The critics don't know what they're talking about.

  23. #23
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Exactly. The moves was a very fitting end to 42, 12 movie saga. It had everything you needed. it was not perfect, but it finished the saga very well.

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