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  1. #41
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    It's because nobody learns how to throw a punch these days. That's also the reason that people throw weak looking forearms in a fucking streetfight where punches are legal and you'd think you'd want to hurt your opponent more than a forearm.

    Literally, when I'm training people they usually learn forearms first because they're easier to teach and do, and it makes it so they can work training matches a little quicker. When it comes time to learn punches, I'd say about 75% never learn to throw a decent looking one, and even more opt to stick with forearms out of fear or "hurting" someone. A lot of people have never been hit or had to throw a punch before.

    Big Swole...she's neither big, nor is she "swole". I don't get it at all. Average Height Somewhat Lean would be a more accurate name. It's bothered me from the first time I saw her.

    Maria Manic, she's big and swole. Jordynne Grace is big and swole (though not tall).

  2. #42
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    I like Big Swole. Haven't seen lots and lots of her, but what I have seen suggests she's got a really big future.

  3. #43
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Makes me nostalgic for the days when guys would rather throw a damn stiff shot than risk it looking like crap, to be honest. Never hurt the Road Warriors when they were still green!

    Or on the other end of the spectrum, reminds me of the story Foley told in one of his many books about being in there with Terry Funk. Had never been able to see what he was doing that made his punches look so good, and he thought now I'm finally going to be in there I can see first hand and up close what it is that was so special. So he's stood there, waiting for it trying to see what Funker does to pull it off, and WHAM! His idol had pretty much just smacked him in the head as hard as he could.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  4. #44
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    I LOVE Maria and Jordynne. Great imposing look, great asset to their divisions. Not quite sure about ability because I've likely seen a handful of matches of each of them. But they are stars who will be signed to bigger contracts someday.

  5. #45
    The Brain
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    I've honestly come to appreciate Hogan's wrestling a lot so I'm not really out to slam him. Some of his stuff does look cartoonish but he always (well, usually) maximized it and got it over with the crowd, and since the match got over with the crowd I don't think Swole has a ton to worry about, doubly so since if I remember the strikes you're talking about they seemed fine to me. But mileage may vary, as always!

    EDIT: Big fan of Jordynne Grace in particular. AEW picking her up down the line would be a major asset to them. Maria's good stuff too, from what I've seen.
    Last edited by mizfan; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:23 PM.

  6. #46
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    I also enjoyed the Nyla Rose vs. Big Swole match. These are two women I want to see develop more on screen. They have something there, but having sporadic

    I did not enjoy the Britt Baker promo, however. It wasn't as bad as last week, she definitely needs more work all around. Can't say I'm looking forward to her match next week against Yuka Sakazaki.

    I'm still kind of peeved that Riho still wasn't on the show again. She's been on a total of like 3-4 shows in the past three months.

  7. #47
    The Brain
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    I've seen some really praise the Baker promo but I had mixed feelings about it myself. All she really did was voice some of the same complaints fans have had about Jim Ross' performance, and I didn't think the execution was particularly sharp either. She's got a lot more to do in order to win me over.

    As much as I like Riho I'll cosign her not being more isn't ideal. Even with her popularity, it might be worth switching the title to someone more present and giving it back to Riho down the line if she's got more availability.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Makes me nostalgic for the days when guys would rather throw a damn stiff shot than risk it looking like crap, to be honest. Never hurt the Road Warriors when they were still green!

    Or on the other end of the spectrum, reminds me of the story Foley told in one of his many books about being in there with Terry Funk. Had never been able to see what he was doing that made his punches look so good, and he thought now I'm finally going to be in there I can see first hand and up close what it is that was so special. So he's stood there, waiting for it trying to see what Funker does to pull it off, and WHAM! His idol had pretty much just smacked him in the head as hard as he could.
    Saw a similar story with Jerry Lawler. He was asked why his punches always looked so good, his answer was that he never learned to throw a "worked" one so he just punches people for real!

  9. #49
    The Brain
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    Quite different from the stories you hear about wrestlers training to "punch" a string hung from the ceiling without actually moving it! Though I was never quite sure I believed that one anyway...

  10. #50
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    Was it Rock vs Cena the first where both of them worked pretty snug? That's the best recent example I can think of, for some reason.

    This is just reminding me of Goldust offering to teach people to punch after that Dark Order segment. Give him his due, Goldust throws some excellent punches in the ring.

  11. #51
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    BUUUT, some Dustin's open handed slaps to the face are pretty weak. The 'knife edge finger poke chop' (no idea what to actually call it) to the throat is good though.

  12. #52
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Not sure how a knife edge and a finger poke work together, but alright. Anyway, think we've been off the women long enough, so here's their updated rankings. Basically the same 5 as last time but the order has shifted.

    1. Nyla Rose
    2. Hikaru Shida
    3. Kris Statlander
    4. Britt Baker
    5. Awesome Kong


    So Nyla Rose and Britt Baker each gain a place at the expense of Kong and Hikaru Shida.

    Y'know, I'm finding this ranking system actually quite productive. If the in-ring product matched up to this kind of presentation I think I would have been all over this (although in that sense it's very much just NJPW all over again for me).

    Though in pure numbers terms it is hard to see why Baker isn't ranked #1, as she would seem to have an equal or better 2020 rating than all the others, and a better overall rating than anyone else who is 1-1 for the year. I know that is not something many here want to see, but the mathematics would seem to indicate she's got a strong case to be ranked #1 or at worst #2.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  13. #53
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    OK, Dustin uses the same stiff ope handed poke chop to the throat that Kane uses. Know what move I'm talking about now?

  14. #54
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I believe I do, and if I'm right people tend to just refer to it as a 'throat thrust'. My point initially that you can't really combine a 'knife edge' and a 'poke' because they imply the use of a different part of the hand in each case. But anyway, as I say, we should probably cycle back to the AEW women's division in here. No reason you can't start a 'Natural Dustin Rhodes' thread if you wanna carry on with an intricate discussion of his repertoire.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  15. #55
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    Quite different from the stories you hear about wrestlers training to "punch" a string hung from the ceiling without actually moving it! Though I was never quite sure I believed that one anyway...
    I learned, and encourage other people, by full-on punching the ring post. First until it stopped connecting so hard and hurting my hand, and then until it stopped making a ding.

    One of my mentors was taught by punching a brick wall. He was told to go punch the wall until he stopped hurting himself. When he came back his trainer told him "I never thought you'd actually do it!". Still throws one of the best working punches I've ever seen. No matter the distance or angle, he can hit you with a working punch that looks like a million bucks but is pulled perfectly. Sadly, I'm not quite there yet, sometimes I still tag guys.

  16. #56
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    In theory, the rankings bring a lot to the table. So far, I don't think AEW has really done much with them. They've become talking points for the announcers, but that's about it. And in the end, they are still putting time into crowning #1 contenders.

    The counter to my issue is that if they became too much of a focal point right away, it would become played out quickly. So maybe AEW is doing the smart move just establishing them for a bit before they become used to push feuds a bit more.

    As for the women, I finally am getting to the Dynamite from the Jericho Cruise. Priscilla Kelly vs Britt was fine. I was more impressed with the heel stuff Kelly was doing than Baker. The promo wasn't nearly as bad as many have been claiming, but it was average at best. I'm guessing AEW has a high $ investment in her to be pushing her so strong, despite her not delivering much.

    We are also seeing the weakness of involving the Joshi wrestlers. They were honestly the biggest draw for me once AEW was getting started, but the combination of their lack of regularity and zero character development is wearing the interest thin.

  17. #57
    The Brain
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    If Kenny Omega is indeed in charge of booking the women as rumored, I place the blame more in his department than I do on any of the joshi wrestlers. I'm glad he has an appreciation for the in ring style but I'm still not convinced he would know character development if it bit him in the butt. The only woman who seems to get a lot of time devoted to character is Britt Baker lately, which I'm still not overly optimistic about it!

    Regarding Britt's ranking, I think it's worth factoring in that her 1 victory was against Priscilla Kelly, who hasn't established any standing at all in AEW yet, and her one loss was eating the pin in a championship match. I know they chucked the 2019 ratings but if you look back, Nyla hasn't suffered any kind of real loss in a really long time besides the 4way for the title, where she wasn't involved in the decision.

  18. #58
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    Regarding Britt's ranking, I think it's worth factoring in that her 1 victory was against Priscilla Kelly, who hasn't established any standing at all in AEW yet, and her one loss was eating the pin in a championship match. I know they chucked the 2019 ratings but if you look back, Nyla hasn't suffered any kind of real loss in a really long time besides the 4way for the title, where she wasn't involved in the decision.
    Yeah, I thought there might be something like this at play, this is why I hedged a bit and put 'at worst #2' at the end there, to allow a bit of wiggle room. In reality, i suspect it's just an example of how difficult it can be for rankings to look like they mean a lot a) when they are so even, and b) in this case, so early in the year when everyone has only one or two matches on them.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  19. #59
    The Brain
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    Wonder if Shida has a chance of capturing the top spot after beating Melanie Cruise on Dark? It'd be a stretch if you looked at their whole recent history but just since January she could have an argument for it.

    Also seen rumors that they may have written off Awesome Kong when Cruise and Luther attacked her. That'd be a shame as I love Kong, but by all accounts she's very beaten up so it could possibly be for the best. It's really too bad if they can't deliver on Kong vs. Kong (Aja vs. Awesome) match they teased a while back, but so it goes.

  20. #60
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    Looks like there might be something to the Kong rumors, with the whole Nightmare Collective deal getting shut down or at least paused temporarily with Brandi now playing the role of concerned wife. I think the group had potential but it just didn't work out.

    I'm happy to see Nyla Rose win the AEW Women's Championship. I like Riho enough in the ring but her spotty appearances were not doing her any favors for the fledgling division. Now at least we have a chance to have someone appear on a more consistent basis, and definitely be a threat to the rest of the women. It was a good move to make. Hopefully they can capitalize on this change.

    On a related yet unrelated note, I was having dinner the other night with my wife's family. Her brother's wife showed me a picture of her from about 25 years ago, when she was in her late 20s. She was pretty much a clone of Riho back then. This story has nothing to do with wrestling but I don't know where else I could share this with any sort of related context.
    Last edited by Degenerate; 5 Days Ago at 01:48 AM.

  21. #61
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    Brandi herself seems to have said recently that the Nightmare Collective wasn't working and Kong wasn't in the right condition (or words to that effect) to compete so they'd knocked it on the head. I feel pretty sorry for Kong, she finally got to WWE and then got pregnant before having a miscarriage, then it seemed wasn't really mentally ready to be in the ring after that for quite a while and WWE eventually released her. Now it seems she's slowly reaching the end of her full time wrestling career. Hopefully she can keep up the acting gigs, as I really like her in GLOW.

    Nyla's definitely a good choice to be women's champion, and I thought the way they did the switch was very strong for her. Not sure where they will take the angle of her knocking the women's roster that came after the title win, but it certainly adds some interest there.

  22. #62
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    I'm really happy for Nyla, she has improved a lot in the last 9 months and I think the time is right to make her champ. With monsters you can't have them fail at the top of the mountain too many times and their losses hurt them way more than smaller wrestlers.

    It also sets up an awesome trilogy match down the line for Riho who now has a chance to go through the division again and get even more over as she chases the championship.

    As I said in my column, I'm really positive on the AEW women's division, it is a long way from being perfect but a lot of the hot takes are a long way off base with it.

  23. #63
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    I am totally surprised that AEW has not promoted Nyla as Transgender. It is NOT a secret, and they have mentioned it early on, but now that she is champion, I think AEW should do a sit down interview with her, like they did with Santana last night, or a Foley/Ross interview from back in the day.

    I think it will go a long way, and be a great avenue for the widespread acceptance of transgender people.

    AEW should not take away the monster of Nyla Rose, but with the correct marketing, she really could become a huge symbol for transgender people as a top champion of a Major Wrestling Promotion.

    Good for her for winning the title, and I love that AEW did not shy away from signing her, nor shy away from making her champion. I am not so sure that the WWE would have done either.

  24. #64
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    I actually think it's better for them to not overly promote it. As you say, it's not a secret, and Nyla got a lot of online abuse for it in the past, including on AEW match announcement videos and Tweets, I understand.

    She's a woman in the woman's division - and I think they actually will do better by just letting that be the case and not playing up that she is transgender and inviting the pointless arguments/hatred that brings with it, especially amongst the knuckle draggers on the internet. Just let it be that a woman in the woman's division won the women's title. Whilst it's great that they've made the decision to make her champion, I don't think they need to make a big thing about it showing how inclusive they are, how they're an LGBTQIA+ ally etc.

    For want of a better way of saying it - 'normalising' the presence of transgender people within a company by not making overt references to it is, in my opinion, a much better way to handle the situation then by coming out all guns blazing and highlighting it. The latter just isn't necessary.

  25. #65
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Fair point, and I cannot argue with anything you said, nor say anything to counter it. Both of our arguments would work.

    I really would love to hear from TO on this.

  26. #66
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    One point I was going to make but then rowed back from (but feel like I might as well make it now) - I think just accepting it and moving on might be the first time I've really felt like AEW has notably handled a situation differently to WWE. I'd suspect they'd have Stephanie McMahon making pronouncements on social media within an hour if a transgender woman ever won the women's title on Raw or Smackdown.

  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    I am totally surprised that AEW has not promoted Nyla as Transgender. It is NOT a secret, and they have mentioned it early on, but now that she is champion, I think AEW should do a sit down interview with her, like they did with Santana last night, or a Foley/Ross interview from back in the day.

    I think it will go a long way, and be a great avenue for the widespread acceptance of transgender people.

    AEW should not take away the monster of Nyla Rose, but with the correct marketing, she really could become a huge symbol for transgender people as a top champion of a Major Wrestling Promotion.

    Good for her for winning the title, and I love that AEW did not shy away from signing her, nor shy away from making her champion. I am not so sure that the WWE would have done either.
    This is more likely to happen when/if she turns face. But as a heel, the less sympathy we have for her struggles, the better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    One point I was going to make but then rowed back from (but feel like I might as well make it now) - I think just accepting it and moving on might be the first time I've really felt like AEW has notably handled a situation differently to WWE. I'd suspect they'd have Stephanie McMahon making pronouncements on social media within an hour if a transgender woman ever won the women's title on Raw or Smackdown.
    You'd be right, but it's because WWE is the home of babyfaces. Nia won her title as a babyface after heel Alexa called her fat and ugly. That face run last 6 months before turning heel again. They would have handled Nyla the same way, but without the heel run. I think WWE would have played the whole scenario very differently from the start and not let her be a heel, because they'd get a lot more flak letting a transgender person be booed.



    All that said, I read a headline yesterday about either college or high school girls suing or in some way challenging their school academics department about letting transgender women (who were born men) in competitions. This topic is so delicate with both sides having valid points. Thankfully in wrestling, it's fake anyways, so they can make it work easier.

  28. #68
    Transgender Terror
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    I actually think it's better for them to not overly promote it. As you say, it's not a secret, and Nyla got a lot of online abuse for it in the past, including on AEW match announcement videos and Tweets, I understand.

    She's a woman in the woman's division - and I think they actually will do better by just letting that be the case and not playing up that she is transgender and inviting the pointless arguments/hatred that brings with it, especially amongst the knuckle draggers on the internet. Just let it be that a woman in the woman's division won the women's title. Whilst it's great that they've made the decision to make her champion, I don't think they need to make a big thing about it showing how inclusive they are, how they're an LGBTQIA+ ally etc.

    For want of a better way of saying it - 'normalising' the presence of transgender people within a company by not making overt references to it is, in my opinion, a much better way to handle the situation then by coming out all guns blazing and highlighting it. The latter just isn't necessary.
    Bingo. The best way to treat this is just like a normal title change. Donít stress her gender identity just for company goodwill.

  29. #69
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    I view Nyla the same way as I viewed it when Darren Young came out publicly. You're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't.

    If you make it a part of her character or use it in a story, you're exploiting it. If you don't, there's going to be people that claim you're ignoring or hiding it or trying to erase it.

    Putting the title on her was the right decision, and the one they should have made on day one.

  30. #70
    The Brain
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    Brandi is better off as herself, for sure. RIP Nightmare Collective, you could have been something but you never really were.

    Very happy for Nyla. Riho brought some big positives but there were points against her as well, particularly her availability and her size being a barrier for some fans. I’ve been impressed by Nyla since 2018 and she keeps getting better and better. Her match with Riho was my favorite one on a show full of strong matches. Regarding her being transgender, I’m inclined to agree with Ollie that it’s best that AEW treats it in a matter of fact sort of way. It doesn’t feel quite right to try to make it into a marketing angle or part of her gimmick. I definitely think it’s tricky no matter how you treat it thanks to the current climate, but bottom line I’m just really pleased that Nyla is champion.

    I don’t feel too bad for Kong, I’m under the impression that her interest in acting is stronger than her interest in wrestling right now, which considering how hard she pushed herself at times during her career is understandable. I still want that Kong vs. Kong match eventually though. Actually just fly over Aja Kong more often in general!

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