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  1. #81
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Yeah, I have to say that I'm with Powder. I thought TSOW was terrible. I went to the cinema to see it, quite looking forward to it as well. It struck me as a brave and relatively original idea. What I found it to be was a long, unconvincing and dull slog with nothing original to say at all. The main premise was always going to be a tricky sell to the common cinema goer, and I think it failed to capture the right sense of fairytale. The final twist I called the first time you saw the main character's neck so came as no surprise at all, and it just stopped being fantastical and started being silly. I checked out with the kinky hour in a flooded bathroom. So yeah, I thought it was pretty dire; a far-cry from Pan's Labrynth, Del Toro's best.

    I too am also sick of the snobbery of the Academy towards sci-fi, fantasy and comic book movies. But that said, I'm unconvinced Black Panther is worthy of a nod anyway. I really like the film, enjoy the hell out of it even, but it has some terrible flaws when you look at it dispassionately for the sake of critical appraisal.

  2. #82
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Eh, I enjoyed it. I don't really get where either of you are coming from. I don't think it was amazing but it looked good, sounded good, and most important for that kind of arts cinema, was bigger than itself. Thought-provoking.

    But on the other point, I don't really agree at all about snobbery and the Oscars. I don't think I've ever seen a comic book movie that I've thought deserved a nomination, and as much as I love them, I don't really think I've seen many sci-fi movies that really should be in the conversation too - although I'll admit there is a curious tendency for some things, like 2001 and Gravity, to net their director the best director nod while they don't win the best picture (though Gravity did get a nomination so that is less curious). And quite a few sci-fi movies do get nominated, including classics like E.T. and Star Wars, and then a bunch of sci-fi films nominated in the last decade.

    The truth is that the Oscars has never been particularly elitest the way some people claim, and a look at the kind of films that have won over the years should show that immediately. They've always been very 'middle brow', honouring films that combine a strong popular sensibility with an artistic sensibility or a bit of an auteur in charge with a clear vision. Popular genres actually do very well in the history of the best picture - a huge number of westerns have won, back when they were the 'action' movies of their day, and musicals have won it on a semi-regular way too - and no one can say they are exactly heavy, high-art, either.

    The vast majority of comic book movies and even a lot of the sci-fi movies that I love don't really have much status as 'art', but are explicitly, solely commercial productions. And can be the product of so many different influences and contributors that in the end a clear artistic vision struggles to really come through. And honestly, when it does you can often end up with something that feels like the Nolan Batman movies: a far better example of pretension than anything else that has been mentioned in this conversation so far.

    The truth is the idea comes around because people get suckered into thinking that if I like it, it must be great art, and ergo it deserves to win. But if you look at the history of the award it's far, far more true that those kind of movies get a much better deal out of the Academy Awards then "real" arts cinema, or foreign language, or one of several other categories.




    Anyway, on to more jolly stuff. Haven't been to the cinema lately but got some big projects off my desk, so looking to get more use out of my card. Any reviews of recent releases gratefully received.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  3. #83
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    A short list of comic book movies not only worthy of a best picture nod:

    Superman - 1978, 35 years ahead of its time
    The Dark Knight
    The Dark Knight Rises
    Guardian of the Galaxy - probably one of the most underrated movies even though it is universally loved
    Wonder Woman
    Black Panther
    Infinity War Part 1

    Sci-Fi
    King Kong 1933
    Planet of the Apes 1968
    Empire Strikes Back
    Blade Runner
    Close Encounters of the Third Kind
    Mad Max: Fury Road
    Back to the Future
    Alien
    Exorcist

    And in regards to Gravity...please, talk about another completely overrated movie, that was just a retelling of Cast Away but in space.
    Sandra Bullock stranded in space on her own "island" due to crash
    Has to figure out to survive
    Creates imaginary friend to keep her sane
    Imaginary friend floats off into oblivion
    After giving up all hope gets rescued.

  4. #84
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I've seen all of those comic book movies, and wouldn't nominate any of them. Not even close. The only one I'd even think about was probably the Burton first Batman film.

    I've seen most of the Sci-Fi movies too, and think you can make a case for Blade Runner and Close Encounters, but that's about it. Maybe Alien, at a push. They did only nominate around 5 movies in those years so it was pretty tough to even get a nod.

    I like a lot of the films, but again, don't confuse what you like for what is 'good' and you'll get a much better idea of the question. If you can't separate the two out then you're never gonna get it.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  5. #85
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    I wasn't using my opinion. I actually did some research on the Sci-Fi movies and the ones I listed were my preferences from the "snubbed" lists. And in regards to the comic book movies, they are also the best ones made.

    I absolutely love Batman 1989, but it is NOT better than the Dark Knight.

  6. #86
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    OK, there's far too much to address here, I've got some philosophy I need to prep for a finalists class on Wednesday and a few other posts here I need to get to in what time I do have, but I'm just going to highlight this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    I wasn't using my opinion [...] they are also the best ones made.
    .... as the moment where I had to just leave this one alone.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  7. #87
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    I was referring to the sci-fi movies.

    BUT. Name a better comic book movie than the ones I listed.

  8. #88
    The Brain
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    All I'll say about the Oscars is The Wrestler should have gotten a lot more attention. But it's all just opinions, anyway.

    Saw A Simple Favor this past weekend. I liked it visually and the three leads are so damn charismatic, but the plot itself... well, did you ever see the episode of Community which culminates in a series of increasingly ridiculous reveals in which different combinations of people have been scheming against each other to teach them a lesson? It's ultimately that, but played oddly straight. I still enjoyed it but I don't think I'd recommend it too strongly.

  9. #89
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I do get where you are coming from with that. That's exactly the kind of movie that can do well at the Oscars and has that kind of 'middling', artsy-but-popular feel that the Academy usually go for.

    Went to the cinema the other day and missed the start of what I'd gone to see so ended up watching Night School. Oh man. I'm not Kevin Hart hater by any means but I found this one painful in places.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  10. #90
    The Brain
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    Yeah, that... did not look good! Or at least not to my taste. And I like Kevin Hart for the most part.

  11. #91
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    Very few stand up comedians can translate well to television/movies, though.

  12. #92
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Oh it's not him. He's fine in it, as far as you can be fine in a bad movie. It's not any of the performances really, it's the script - they've got very little to work with.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  13. #93
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Anyone seen Venom yet? I'm hesitant to see it. I usually don't make those decisions based on critical reception, but when there's so many films of its kind flying around and when it's listed as being an arse-numbing 2.5 hours long (just about) then it makes me reticent to commit....

  14. #94
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Yes, and from the Marvel thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    OK...so....Venom.

    The movie was good and entertaining. It was not light and fun like Deadpool or the MCU, but it had humor. They got most of Venom's origin correct with the entire LACK IF F'N SPIDER-MAN!!!! Also they made Eddie Brock, the stereotypical High School bully, turned into adult bully (which is THE reason that Venom finds it's true host with Brock) into a whiny, down on his luck loser who is a underlying nice guy who constantly makes poor life choices and can't get out of his own way.

    I know I am usually overly hard on comic book movies/shows with their changes to the source material, but this one, to me is unforgivable. Venom and Eddie Brock are HUGE parts of Spider-man's history, and Sony threw that out the window.

    The movie was fun, but very disappointing to this comic book fan.

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