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  1. #81
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Agreed, as much as my inner fantasy booker was running wild with the possibilities ultimately this way he will be able to accomplish his needs in hopefully the safest place.



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  2. #82
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    But we need Bryan vs Takahashi to happen! Assuming they both have fully fit necks to do that...

  3. #83
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Sounds like the Bryan destination has been solved, in the last couple of days he's supposed to have signed a multi-year WWE deal. Probably puts the kybosh on those Japan/CMLL rumours (unless he's going to carry on well into his 40s).

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  4. #84
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    I need some help from you guys...

    With the exception of the throw away match on Smackdown a few weeks ago, how many times has Daniel Bryan (Bryan Danielson) faced AJ Styles in the past?

  5. #85
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    5 singles matches outside WWE. 3 in ROH, 1 in PWG and 1 in IWA Mid south. I've seen I think 2 of their indie matches.. TBH its not one of my favorite pairings.

    But they are totally different performers now

  6. #86
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    Only 5 times, 6 if you include the throw away match, but that could have been just getting a warm up for the Crown Jewel match.

    I would have loved to see a match between these two 5 years ago.

  7. #87
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    Its actually surprising how low the number is but the thing was, Bryan wasn't a star on the indies until I'd say 2005 and by that point, AJ was taking less indy bookings.

  8. #88
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Props to Daniel Bryan for standing up for his beliefs. Unlike Cena I can only see downsides for Bryan doing this, you can't help but think he will have rubbed some people the wrong way pulling out at the last moment.

    Then again Vince is a weird dude and if he is in the right mood it could make him respect Bryan for standing up for something and not compromising himself.



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  9. #89
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    It doesn't matter. Bryan is in the position that he chose. What I mean is, he signed the contract when he didn't have to so whatever happens to him, as far as his career goes, wins and losses.. Obviously don't really matter to him. He's not going to get low card jobber treatment but even before not going to Saudi Arabia, I didn't think he was treated like the star he is and can be... I don't see anything changing on that front.

  10. #90
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Actually now you mention it getting treated like a low card jobber would probably get him hotter than ever.



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  11. #91
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    There were some reports saying that Daniel Bryan actually told management that he did not want to go to Saudi Arabia again after the Greatest Royal Rumble trip for various personal reasons. It's weird that the company responded by putting him over The Miz in that match in Australia and then giving him a program for a championship match with A.J. Styles. Seems like they tried to sweeten the pot as much as they could and he still stuck to his beliefs. Good on him.

    I hope that this doesn't put him in the proverbial doghouse for a long time.

  12. #92
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Request to change the title of this thread to The American Dragon Bryan Danielson's thread?

    Watching him stomp the crap out AJ makes me very excited for the possibilities of an unleashed Daniel Bryan who was already acting entitled and taking cheap wins against The Miz.
    Last edited by SirSam; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:01 AM.



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  13. #93
    I didn't see the heel turn coming. I actually feel kinda foolish for not.

  14. #94
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone really did. Gona be interesting to see why. I wonder if he goes down the 'entitled indie darling'. He was angling that way in his Miz feud and could really turn the volume up now.



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  15. #95
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    Heel Bryan is my favourite Bryan, so that's good.

  16. #96
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    Give the guy with the history a concussion a match against Brock...

    I’m glad he’s won the title- AJ was stale. I’d have rathered the Miz has won with all the work he’s done but Bryan is a refreshing change and it’ll be interesting to see where he goes now. Smackdown is heel heavy. Could we see the Miz turn face?

  17. #97
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    The only thing about this that struck me as a remote positive when I heard the news is that, as Ollie said, Bryan is a great heel and should have no problem in the role. Beyond that this feels like WWE doing something shocking for the sake of doing something shocking. Hell that feels like all their turns recently. Remember how Sami Zayn turning heel out of nowhere was supposed to rejuvenate him? It did...for three months, then he was back in the same damn spot he was before till he got hurt. Dean Ambrose turning unexpectedly on Seth the night Roman Reigns announced he had leukemia? Everyone acted like that was going to add so much heat, but it's been a few weeks and people now talk about it like it's just another program, not something on the level of Becky-Ronda. I'm sure Bryan wasn't over like he was before (more on that in a second), but I'm also sure he was still massively over and this turn was still pretty out there. Maybe they can make it work, but my guess is this is all to lead to the dastardly heel Bryan taking on the heroic defender of Smackdown...you guessed it, Shane McMahon. Why else would they have made a big deal of him winning that dumbass tournament at Saudi Arabia Faux Outrage? That's leading somewhere and now suddenly Bryan's a heel. Easy math to me.

    In the end, regardless of how you feel about this turn, consider this. It's been maybe eight months since Bryan was cleared to compete, which was one of the most well received moments in recent memory and the biggest story in wrestling at the time. No one had more goodwill or fan support than Daniel Bryan did. Eight months later, WWE apparently thought he had lost the crowd enough that he had to turn heel. Daniel Bryan, eight months after making an "improbable" comeback (while still being the most over guy WWE had), has now cooled down enough that he can turn heel. That to me is quite the accomplishment in taking something can't miss and somehow missing anyway. This guy could've been the most over babyface forever after his return. Now he'll soon be another heel feuding with Shane McMahon.


  18. #98
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    I think that the heel turn, was a Band-aid to the Becky situation. No one really cared about the Lesnar-Styles match and the main attraction for Survivor Series was Becky-Rousey. But now with that match out, Vince panicked and needed to do something to make people tune in. Turning Bryan heel and facing off against Lesnar, is new, and fresh, and will make people watch. Terrible long term booking, but good for the very short term.

  19. #99
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    I doubt they would make this type of decision within 24 hours, I just don't believe that. I figure they had this carefully planned out, and I could even see Shane turning and aligning himself with Bryan. His winning the trophy was portrayed as a heel move by the announcers (especially Michael Cole). Plus Daniel Bryan is over, babyface or heel. He could stay as a heel for a little while, and turn face later next year to much fan fare.

    I haven't gone back and looked specifically, but there's been a couple of moments recently where Bryan did suggest heelish actions, without going overboard. I'd suggest this has been in the works for a little while, though I can understand if it has been brought about quicker than they wanted to...
    Last edited by Gooner; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:28 AM.

  20. #100
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    I'm sorry Cult but this is less than 12 hours old, why are you rushing to label it a failure already? I'll give you that they mishandled his return but Daniel Bryan just won the WWE Title and stomped the crap out of AJ Styles in the process. How is that not interesting?

    There is something wrong when we are so quick to rush to the conclusion that something hasn't worked. Needless to say I completely disagree with you on Dean and Seth's angle too which has been exceptionally executed so far in my mind.

    Maybe I'm a sucker or a mark but it's ok to allow yourself to have some fun mate. It is entertainment after all.
    Last edited by SirSam; 4 Weeks Ago at 11:13 AM.



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  21. #101
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I dunno, I thought that reading was pretty much on the money for me.

    The other thing to factor in, of course, is that Bryan's popularity has often had very little to do with his role on the show or how he's been booked, so who is to say with any confidence that this is actually going to take in the longer term anyway? If people start saying that Bryan's popularity was a slam dunk, and that this is more 'burying' of a guy that they never wanted to go all in on anyway - we might find we're right back where we were a few years ago.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirSam View Post
    Maybe I'm a sucker or a mark but it's ok to allow yourself to have some fun mate. It is entertainment after all.
    My apologies; I forgot that I said that it wasn't okay to have some fun. Oh wait; that's because I never said that! I'm not begrudging anyone who thought this was good. But just as it's okay for you to enjoy it because it's "entertainment and all", I would argue it's okay for me to think this was a short sighted angle done more for shock value that didn't entertain me in the slightest. I hate this argument that we have to just wait and see how things play out and for now must accept things as a certain way, or that we should just turn off our brains. If others want to do that, more power to them. But that's not how I roll. If they get it right later then I'll admit I was wrong and go back to posting theories on how Dario Cueto will re-take the Temple. But until then I'm going to say what I feel, and I feel this was lame. You don't like it? Bravo. That's the beauty of opinions and differences in philosophies, mate.


  23. #103
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Well you guys can have this thread to wallow in your negativity.
    Last edited by SirSam; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:09 PM.



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  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    In the end, regardless of how you feel about this turn, consider this. It's been maybe eight months since Bryan was cleared to compete, which was one of the most well received moments in recent memory and the biggest story in wrestling at the time. No one had more goodwill or fan support than Daniel Bryan did. Eight months later, WWE apparently thought he had lost the crowd enough that he had to turn heel. Daniel Bryan, eight months after making an "improbable" comeback (while still being the most over guy WWE had), has now cooled down enough that he can turn heel. That to me is quite the accomplishment in taking something can't miss and somehow missing anyway. This guy could've been the most over babyface forever after his return. Now he'll soon be another heel feuding with Shane McMahon.
    Bryan was still just as over and getting just as big a reaction, he's got that built-in reaction these days because he's Daniel Bryan. But you turn a guy while he's still hot and people still like him so that it hurts those people.

    This in a turn that, if you're following along weekly, makes a lot of sense. Everyone, including Bryan, has spent months questioning whether or not he could still go at the level that he used to and if his return has been a waste. He was submitted by AJ a few weeks ago. So last night when AJ was about to beat him, he snapped. He had that realization that maybe doing the smiling, gallant babyface thing won't get it done anymore, so he did what needed to do to win the belt. It's a logical turn with months of build and people talking about how he wasn't the Daniel Bryan of old and something needed to change.

    On top of that, I'm more than happy to see it because he can slow down a little bit. As a heel he doesn't have to take as many bumps, he doesn't have to wrestle as "exciting" a style. I'm happy to see the guy move in to a role where maybe he can strike and grapple a little more.

    We'll see where it goes. I'm happy to not judge it as an utter failure night one when we haven't even had a single bit of follow up.

    I'm the guy who has said for years that he doesn't want to see Bryan vs Brock. I'm still not big on the match because I just don't buy the match-up. But people want to see it, so give 'em the "dream match".

  25. #105
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    I don't care what anybody said, the heel turn and title win was a great thing for me. It was unexpected in a good way and added interest to Survivor Series. Plus now we have to wait to see how Bryan explains himself and it gives us a good answer, which I have confidence Bryan will because he basically calls his own shots, and we'll see someone emerge to chase him for WrestleMania. I don't see AJ getting the title off him, so I can see a new face rise to chase and beat Bryan at Wrestlemania, it makes Bryan look legit, and it builds a new face. This feels right.

  26. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by LWO4Life View Post
    I don't care what anybody said, the heel turn and title win was a great thing for me. It was unexpected in a good way and added interest to Survivor Series. Plus now we have to wait to see how Bryan explains himself and it gives us a good answer, which I have confidence Bryan will because he basically calls his own shots, and we'll see someone emerge to chase him for WrestleMania. I don't see AJ getting the title off him, so I can see a new face rise to chase and beat Bryan at Wrestlemania, it makes Bryan look legit, and it builds a new face. This feels right.
    The thing is that who realistically could be a feasible face to do that? They could turn Nakamara back to face and have him finally win or, or maybe they turn The Miz face, which would be a complete reverse outcome to what we initially expected.

  27. #107
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    It could be:

    -Rusev getting a babyface singles push
    -Cesaro in a breakout singles push
    -Rey Mysterio for a big Mania match
    -Aleister Black getting the call-up after this weekend and having the rocket strapped to him

    The truth is that the WWE Title will likely be beneath the Universal Title at WrestleMania. With that in mind, it gives an opportunity to push anyone into that spot realistically.

    Or is The Miz over enough as a heel that come February, DB could turn babyface again? It would be a real short term heel run, but if he starts getting big cheers as a heel he can "rediscover" himself or something, repent to the fans, see the error of his ways and face off with Miz.

    Ooooooh man, a team with Miz would be a lot of fun! Miz likes Bryan's new attitude and wants to get close to the Champion, Bryan uses Miz to keep himself ahead. And then at some point one turns on the other.

  28. #108
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Main page is reporting that the heel turn was set Tuesday before Smackdown, but the title change was decided over the weekend, prior to Becky getting hurt.

    Quote Originally Posted by LifeLostInRewind View Post
    The thing is that who realistically could be a feasible face to do that? They could turn Nakamara back to face and have him finally win or, or maybe they turn The Miz face, which would be a complete reverse outcome to what we initially expected.
    I do not think that the Miz should ever turn face again. He was not a good babyface. Some people have the ability to play both sides of the coin perfectly, examples from recent years: Punk, Bryan, Ambrose, Rollins, Cena if given the chance to turn heel again. But the Miz is NOT a good face. It feels forced. The Miz's entire character is based on how his is better than us, and an "A list" movie star, and that he is just an arrogant a$$hole. That does not translate well to a face persona, as ther is really no way to tweak that to make him a face.

    I do not know who should end up being the one to take the title off Bryan since the heel turn. I was convinced that we were getting Bryan vs the Miz at Wrestlemania to have the final blow off match of their 8 year feud with Bryan finally winning the title off the Miz, who won it from AJ Styles. I was soooo wrong. Now, I do not see any way that the Miz faces Bryan at Mania. Sucks, too, because that would have been fantastic.

    Smackdown is lacking in the the face department. They have AJ Styles, Jeff Hardy, Rey Mysterio who are clear faces, along with the Usos and The New Day. That's really it. No one on the roster. We just saw AJ Styles vs Bryan twice, Hardy will never get the shot, and please g-d no, not Rey. Also, for the love of Pete, keep Randy Orton away from the WWE Title.

    My only hope, after looking at the Smackdown roster is for Rusev to finally get the face push he deserves. And what would be better than to celebrate a WWE Title victory at Wrestlemania, especially on Rusev Day!!!
    Last edited by Powder; 4 Weeks Ago at 01:38 PM.

  29. #109
    The mark in me would want to see Kane do it, but he's too old and is into his political endeavors now.

    Someone could come over from Raw and do it when they do the brand shake up again. Ideally, I really would like it to be Elias.

  30. #110
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    There is never a shake up before the Rumble and Wrestlemania. The shake up is after. So I do not see Elias moving over, but he would be a nice touch.

  31. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    There is never a shake up before the Rumble and Wrestlemania. The shake up is after. So I do not see Elias moving over, but he would be a nice touch.
    But what if Bryan keeps the title until after Mania? That could be possible. AJ Styles didn't lose the title at Mania this year.

    Also, Elias could win the rumble and choose to challenge Bryan. Asuka was able to choose which champion she faced when she won the rumble.
    Last edited by LifeLostInRewind; 4 Weeks Ago at 01:43 PM.

  32. #112
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeLostInRewind View Post
    The thing is that who realistically could be a feasible face to do that? They could turn Nakamara back to face and have him finally win or, or maybe they turn The Miz face, which would be a complete reverse outcome to what we initially expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    It could be:

    -Rusev getting a babyface singles push
    -Cesaro in a breakout singles push
    -Rey Mysterio for a big Mania match
    -Aleister Black getting the call-up after this weekend and having the rocket strapped to him

    The truth is that the WWE Title will likely be beneath the Universal Title at WrestleMania. With that in mind, it gives an opportunity to push anyone into that spot realistically.

    Or is The Miz over enough as a heel that come February, DB could turn babyface again? It would be a real short term heel run, but if he starts getting big cheers as a heel he can "rediscover" himself or something, repent to the fans, see the error of his ways and face off with Miz.

    Ooooooh man, a team with Miz would be a lot of fun! Miz likes Bryan's new attitude and wants to get close to the Champion, Bryan uses Miz to keep himself ahead. And then at some point one turns on the other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Main page is reporting that the heel turn was set Tuesday before Smackdown, but the title change was decided over the weekend, prior to Becky getting hurt.



    I do not think that the Miz should ever turn face again. He was not a good babyface. Some people have the ability to play both sides of the coin perfectly, examples from recent years: Punk, Bryan, Ambrose, Rollins, Cena if given the chance to turn heel again. But the Miz is NOT a good face. It feels forced. The Miz's entire character is based on how his is better than us, and an "A list" movie star, and that he is just an arrogant a$$hole. That does not translate well to a face persona, as ther is really no way to tweak that to make him a face.

    I do not know who should end up being the one to take the title off Bryan since the heel turn. I was convinced that we were getting Bryan vs the Miz at Wrestlemania to have the final blow off match of their 8 year feud with Bryan finally winning the title off the Miz, who won it from AJ Styles. I was soooo wrong. Now, I do not see any way that the Miz faces Bryan at Mania. Sucks, too, because that would have been fantastic.

    Smackdown is lacking in the the face department. They have AJ Styles, Jeff Hardy, Rey Mysterio who are clear faces, along with the Usos and The New Day. That's really it. No one on the roster. We just saw AJ Styles vs Bryan twice, Hardy will never get the shot, and please g-d no, not Rey. Also, for the love of Pete, keep Randy Orton away from the WWE Title.

    My only hope, after looking at the Smackdown roster is for Rusev to finally get the face push he deserves. And what would be better than to celebrate a WWE Title victory at Wrestlemania, especially on Rusev Day!!!
    But this is what makes it interesting. AJ, Hardy and Rey are perfect for Bryan to go over in the next few months. All of them are really popular, vets who can realistically win the title and all former champions. But I think maybe a call up might be the best bet to push to beat Bryan. But there is so much uncertainty that it's a positive. There is no clear path to Wrestlemania other than you know that Bryan will more than likely hold the title until then. So basically it makes you want to watch because you have no idea where they are going. Each week we talk about how predictable the shows are, and here we are with an actual angle that came out of nowhere and gives us no predictable outcome, and we don't see the end game. So as long time fans, we are use to being able to call everything and I think we get happy when we get it right, and complain when we get it wrong. But honestly, I just want to sit back and watch all of this play out and see where the go. I want the person to beat Bryan to be a someone I don't see right now and they've set themselves up to really push someone to a top spot.

  33. #113
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    This isn't even me being negative, this is me pointing out the obvious; Bryan isn't going to have the title at Mania. It's not coincidence that the last three major moments for Smackdown have been Shane McMahon winning the silly Saudi Arabia tournament, Bryan "accidentally" attacking him at the end of last week's show and now Bryan winning the title. None of that is coincidence. Throw in the fact that Shane has to have a Wrestlemania match every year, Bryan and him have long history from Bryan's GM days and the fact that all other potential Shane opponents have already faced him (AJ), are hurt (Triple H, Zayn, Owens), aren't great fits (Miz) or are Randy Orton (Randy Orton) and it's obvious; the match is Bryan vs. Shane McMahon. And seeing as I cannot possibly fathom WWE doing that as the title match, I'm guessing AJ wins the belt back at either the next show or the Rumble, with Shane getting involved to transition Bryan into that. That's the obvious angle here. Not a good one, but it's the one that appears to be set up.


  34. #114
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    or are Randy Orton (Randy Orton)
    Fuck you! Here I am sitting in my office trying to browse LOP in the DL and this line got a legitimate pop out of me.

  35. #115
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    Your response got a legit pop out of me Coach! The lucha site is down today so I have to find ways to amuse myself. At least now that I'm done ruining SirSam's day!


  36. #116
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    See, for me it's not that I feel that negative about the heel turn itself, so much as the return angle, handled even just decently, should have been a licence to print money. It was, as stated, an open goal.

    The heel turn could be fine in itself but that's still just cleaning up after fucking an unfuckable situation. Although Cult's last post does have me feeling pretty pessimistic about even this now. Good lord that's a grim future you are painting.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  37. #117
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    Or maybe we are witnessing the beginnings of Shane McMahon's biggest push to date? Win the World Title at Mania? Seems par for their material lately


  38. #118
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    See, for me it's not that I feel that negative about the heel turn itself, so much as the return angle, handled even just decently, should have been a licence to print money. It was, as stated, an open goal.

    The heel turn could be fine in itself but that's still just cleaning up after fucking an unfuckable situation. Although Cult's last post does have me feeling pretty pessimistic about even this now. Good lord that's a grim future you are painting.
    Don't listen to him... LOL... Rumor is Shane is turning heel too, which I hope. I think Shane will do a Hell in the Cell at Wrestlemania anyways, which they'd never put Bryan in. Let's let this breath a bit before we shit on it. I think realistically Shane goes against someone from Raw anyways.

    Still love you Cult

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kleckamania View Post
    Or maybe we are witnessing the beginnings of Shane McMahon's biggest push to date? Win the World Title at Mania? Seems par for their material lately
    This is why I love you Kleck. Just when people think I've gone too far, you come in to reveal there is no bottom!

    Quote Originally Posted by LWO4Life View Post
    Don't listen to him... LOL... Rumor is Shane is turning heel too, which I hope. I think Shane will do a Hell in the Cell at Wrestlemania anyways, which they'd never put Bryan in. Let's let this breath a bit before we shit on it. I think realistically Shane goes against someone from Raw anyways.

    Still love you Cult
    This is what really grinds my gears. I'm not shitting on this. Prime is not shitting on this. There's a difference between saying pulling down your shorts and taking a giant dump on something and giving it legitimate criticism. I personally do not agree with what WWE did. Could that opinion change later? Absolutely; I don't put a period on something till it's run its course. But I'm also not going to give something a pass that I think is poorly done (regardless of where it takes place in the angle) and as of now I think Daniel Bryan's turn was, like many of the things WWE does these days in my opinion, a turn for the sake of doing it as opposed to something well thought out. If Shane McMahon is indeed his opponent at Mania then I stand by that even more. Maybe it wasn't and WWE has some glorious, Lucha Underground style plan for Bryan, maybe Bryan makes it work in spite of WWE (ala himself four years ago and Becky Lynch this year) because he is a great heel; who knows?! I'm not shutting the door on it. I just don't think it's a good idea as of now and I'm not sure why so many seem to think that's not okay to say.

    Still love you too LWO.


  40. #120
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    Didn't really read the thread so I could just say this. Bryan is a great heel. His run as a babyface was flopping due to booking and him already reaching the mountain top as the underdog face. The SD brand needed something different at the top and Vince booked himself into a corner. Not to mention that he probably wasn't thrilled to do Brock/AJ again.

    Now, if they let Bryan do his thing as the American Dragon type heel, then it will all work out. If its to make him a chicken shit goofball simliar to his last heel run culminating with Shane being the one to take him down, it will be awful dog shit.

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