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  1. #361
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Wonder Woman 1984 contradicts the entire DCEU as already established.

    In BVS, Diana Prince is breaking into Luthor's house to break into his servers to get the copy of the picture of her that proves her existence in WWI, and Bruce Wayne and her later in JL they get into the argument where he says that she went into hiding for [roughly] 90 years as a result of Steve Trevor's death.

    Then in her stand alone movie, they go over all of the backstory including the photo, and at the end of the film, which takes place after JL, Women Woman is back in the public spotlight.

    I have not seen the trailer, but you do not need to, to address this: How does Wonder Woman have very public fights with Maxwell Lord and Cheetah in the early 80s and NO ONE knows who she is 33 years later?

    And 2 of the top 3 smartest people in the DCU, and the 'World's Greatest Detective' you would think that Batman and/or Lex Luthor would have uncovered some sort of information/proof of Wonder Woman besides a 90 year old photo, if this upcoming movie is set in 1984. Especially that Batman was able to determine who Steve Trevor was. That had to be harder to find out than battles between Lord and Cheetah from 33 years ago with much more media and people around.

    I will still go see the movie and I probably will enjoy it, but continuity problems like this, especially obvious continuity problems really irk me.
    Last edited by Powder; 01-12-2020 at 11:36 AM.

  2. #362
    I read a spoiler-heavy summary of Wonder Woman 1984 (accidentally stumbled upon it then kept reading which I usually would not do). It sounds like shit. I'll still see it in theaters though.

  3. #363
    Was not expecting that huge cameo in the first hour of the Crisis finale. Cool to see it happen and reminds me how sad it is DC can’t figure out the film side of the business (aside from a couple exceptions).

  4. #364
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    It was a cool cameo. Both episodes were pretty good and served as both a great ending and an intriguing new beginning.


    Mild spoiler.....



    I’ll admit to tearing up a little bit at the end during the President’s speech when it panned to Diggle and Lyla and we saw that Oliver gave Sara back to them along with John, Jr. Thats the little kinds of throwbacks that are absolutely awesome.

  5. #365
    The crossover needed much more Diggle. The guy gets disrespected more than anyone. I realize the point of the final scene is to do the Super Friends, but how can Diggle not be there to honor his boy Oliver?

  6. #366
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    That did bother me a bit... Black Lightning was there, but Digg wasn’t. What?

  7. #367
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    So I just watched the last two hours of COIE.

    I have to say that I was a bit disappointed in both hours.

    The Good:
    • Oliver's 'real' death was good, and handled appropriately.
    • One singular Earth for the Arrowverse (including BL), as Earth Prime
    • We did get the Superman holding a dead Supergirl image, but it was Supergirl holding a 'dead' Superman Costume/Cape (Routh's SM).
    • Giving Diggle back his daughter.
    • Hall of Justice.
    • Loved the Ezra Miller Flash cameo, was hoping for everyone, though, but he is the cheapest, and made the most sense in regards to the Arrowverse.
    • Marv Wolfman cameo, and Perez Landing. Nice.



    The Bad:
    • The Paragons in the battle at the Dawn of Time did basically nothing. They stared at The Spectre and the Anti-Monitor with focus.
    • Martian Manhunter giving everyone their memories back. Why? in the comics, only Superman and Lois from E2 and Superboy Prime knew, and decided to get 'trapped' in a paradise dimension to hold that secret.
    • The entire point of the Paragons was what? Get trapped at the Vanishing Point, only to get out with little effort, but only as a reason to say goodbye to all of the cast of Arrow via flashbacks/new scenes.
    • Felicity Smoak and Mia Queen were completely missing.
    • Batwoman was essentially not in hour 4 or 5. Why have her as a Paragon when she did nothing at all, except say that she needs to trust people more.
    • The real last battle with the Anti-Monitor was bad, short, and anticlimatic.
    • How in the hell do we still have multiple Earths? COIE was created as a means to eliminate multiple Earths and to streamline the DCU.
    • The Arrowverse has made Supergirl more relevant and powerful than Superman. Superman is a "beacon" to Quote Bruce Wayne. Superman is the greatest hero of all time, and he is a side character in the Arrowverse. yes he is getting his own show, but he IS the everything in the DCU.
    • GLEEK, F'N Gleek, heavily implying that the Wonder Twins will be showing up. NOOOOOOOO. They were lame when I was a kid watching the Superfriends.


    In regards to why Black Lightning was at Oli's cermony, and not Diggle. I do not like it either, but I understand from a show perspective why. BL is now part of the JL, and on Earth Prime, and his show is continuing and moving forward. Arrow is done, and there is no need for the cast to be in the 'moving on/saying goodbye' phase of the Arrowverse. Diggle had his goodbye with Lyla and his family.

    Also, I am totally confused at the multiple Earths at the end of the show. The Earths where Stargirl, Titans, Doom Patrol, Swamp Thing, and Alex Waid's-verse, are their own Earths? The show basically stated that there is only 1 combined Earth left, Earth Prime, so what was going on with those Earths? As I said, Crisis On Infinite Earths was created by the DCU to eliminate characters, redundancies, and confusing alternate Earths. At he conclusion of the book/arc, they had only 1 Earth left, Earth Prime. So why still have 5? other Earths? All the other shows can exist within the Earth Prime realm, but be completely separate, with the exception of the movie DCEU.

    Furthermore, How are the Doom Patrol and the Titans on different Earths? Titans is a spin off from Doom Patrol, as Beast Boy was a member of DP first. they should absolutely be on the same Earth.
    Last edited by Powder; 01-16-2020 at 10:09 AM.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Also, I am totally confused at the multiple Earths at the end of the show. The Earths where Stargirl, Titans, Doom Patrol, Swamp Thing, and Alex Waid's-verse, are their own Earths? The show basically stated that there is only 1 combined Earth left, Earth Prime, so what was going on with those Earths? As I said, Crisis On Infinite Earths was created by the DCU to eliminate characters, redundancies, and confusing alternate Earths. At he conclusion of the book/arc, they had only 1 Earth left, Earth Prime. So why still have 5? other Earths? All the other shows can exist within the Earth Prime realm, but be completely separate, with the exception of the movie DCEU.

    You’re confused because you were expecting a panel-for-panel adaptation of the source material, and everybody knows that was never going to happen. Simply put- the crossover was never going to put every character on one Earth. From the beginning, Oliver said “we have to save the multiverse.” And that’s exactly what they did. There are still other Earths because Titans is never going to cross over with the Arrowverse. Neither is Swamp Thing. I think that was strictly to show people not familiar with the WB streaming site that there are still other shows/characters that they should go and check out (and give WB some money in the process). And since these shows won’t cross over or have any impact on the Arrowverse in the future, there was no reason to fold them into Earth Prime.

  9. #369
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    But they do not have to crossover to be on the same Earth. How many times during the seasons of Flash and Arrow, did they really crossover? Not many. But they did. Team Arrow would say that Cisco helped with a design, or a weapon, but not show up. You do not have to crossover at all. They can be referenced, but not interact. For instance, Kate Kane can mention that Robin is in San Francisco without ever meeting him.

    And I was not expecting a shot for shot adaptation, but more true to the book. Eliminating other Earths was paramount to the story. Then 20 years later they opened the multiverse back up with Infinite Crisis. They could have waited at least a year with one singular Earth, then during the next crossover next year adapt IC to recreate the multi-verse.

    Also I totally forgot, one of the worst parts of the entire 5 hour crossover was the Legends constantly talking about it as a crossover. Waaaaay to fourth wall breaking. One joke was ok during the first 3 hours, but about 5 in one hour in less than 5 minutes. Terrible.
    Last edited by Powder; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:46 AM.

  10. #370
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    Your point about the Legends is one I forgot to make, as well. That was really bad. Like, really, really bad. There was quite a bit of dialogue that was cringeworthy, though. Supergirl’s “up, up and away” when she took off with what’s his name. Palmer’s (actually... everyone’s) constant references about it being a crossover. When Black Lightning asks “How often does this happen?” And Kate replies with “Don’t feel bad; I was the new kid last year, too.” And even though I was expecting it, when Ollie said “Yes, I am Oliver Queen, but I’ve also become something else.” I don’t know if it was his delivery or just the fact that, even though it was completely expected, it was still eye roll worthy. I have no problem with the overall story and the ending; I think they did the best with what they had to work with, but a lot of the dialogue writing was just laughable.

  11. #371
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    Totally agree.

    But I just read that when Supergirl said "Up, Up, and Away", it was the first time in live action that was said since maybe George Reeves. Not sure if he said it though.

    So while it is hokey, it was at least in character and an Easter Egg to the past.


    But again, how is DP and Titans not on the same Earth?
    Last edited by Powder; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:14 PM.

  12. #372
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    Because reasons, I guess.

    I’m going to say it’s safe to assume that Oliver had the power to make Earth Prime however he wanted (to an extent) which is why Kara was put there so she could hang out with her BFFs Barry and Kate, or how Sara was given back to Digg and Lyla. If this is a correct assumption, then I hope before making that world, he bothered to study a fucking map and actually make thing geographically correct this time. That’s one thing that has always bothered me... they make it seem like the various cities are all a stone’s throw away from each other. In season 1 of The Flash, Barry runs to Coast City to get them all some pizza. Central City is supposed to be in Missouri (right around Kansas City, give or take), while Coast City is right around San Diego, CA. That’s roughly 1500 miles apart, so a 3000 mile round trip journey. I think at that point, Barry might’ve hit 600-700 mph at his fastest. (He might not have even been that fast yet when this scene takes place.) Assuming he was at 700 mph, though, that’s still a 4+ hour trip. The pizza isn’t going to be nice and fresh when he gets back to his living room with the rest of the family. Or when Roy Harper took off to Bludhaven (somewhere in New Jersey) from Star City (somewhere around San Francisco, CA. That’s almost 2900 miles one way, yet they constantly made it seem like it was just a quick “let’s hop in the car and run to Bludhaven real fast” kind of trip.

  13. #373
    I agree totally on the Legends and the fourth-wall breaking crossover stuff. Usually I like that stuff with Legends but it was not needed this time.

    I give the fight scenes a pass because it's TV, but they were really lame. Jon Cryer's physical acting as he shoots lightning from his hands was brutal. Also weird seeing the Asian guy with no superpowers punching the wraiths.

  14. #374
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    Yes that was terrible. BUT, Cryer as Luthor is universally loved, regardless of the bad 'magic' acting.

  15. #375
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    I haven't watched Supergirl yet, but on Batwoman they had Crisis affect the show in a major way. No spoilers, but you will see. But one subtle nod, was that they 'directly stated' without directly stating that the DCEU is now part of the Arrowverse. If you caught it we can discuss, but if you haven't watched yet...I'll let you see it.

    I watched Supergirl as well. Lots of COIE leftovers, and the season is addressing them.
    Last edited by Powder; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:17 AM.

  16. #376
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    Arrow last night served as a backdoor pilot for a potential Spin off Called Green Arrow and the Canaries. I am not sure if it will succeed. I was/am not a fan of the flash forward story lines, and now this spin off will be set in 2040 with multiple characters getting their memories back.

    It was not that good, but I guess we will have to wait and see.

    Legends was beyond stupid. I am really about to give up on that show.

  17. #377
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    I’ll watch it in a little bit, but I have a feeling that 1) it probably won’t be that great, and 2) I can almost guarantee I won’t be watching if it becomes a full series. As much as I like Mia, I really can’t stand William (although, adult William is more tolerable than teen William, if only barely), and it would have to take a lot of the other characters to be series regulars for me to invest. Namely, Roy, Digg and Renee. As much as I enjoy Flash, I have a feeling I’ll be done with that show after this season, as well, unless there’s an amazing cliffhanger in the final episode.

  18. #378
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    The new GA&C show if it happens will have Mia, Laurel, Dinah, William, JJ, Conner, and Zoe. Maybe Rene gets some time, but not sure. It was not great, but who knows.

    Flash has to stop being so cheesy, and get back to real stories.

  19. #379
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    And that’s what worries me. Stephen Amell wasn’t a very good actor when he first started Arrow. It took him several seasons to not be so wooden and rigid. Luckily, though, he had a great supporting cast with Digg, Quentin, Tommy and Malcolm in the beginning, and Slade later on. The only thing going for the new incarnation of Arrow so far is that Katie Cassidy has been a lot better since coming back as Earth 2 Laurel/Black Siren, but I don’t think that’s enough to help carry a show.

  20. #380
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    So the finale of Arrow was very good. It tied up several things left dangling from past seasons, while it allowed a few characters to move onto their next phase. Felicity was only annoying for approximately 10 seconds, so that’s a win, as well. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

  21. #381
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    Yes. I completely forgot to talk about this. They did a really good job with the series finale. They did also tie up some loose ends, but then they left a few loose ends out there.

    In last week's pseudo pilot for Green Arrow & the Canaries, they did not really explain how Dinah and Laurel are now in 2040. Last night both were clearly in 2020, and they clearly showed that Sara went to 2040 to pick up Mia to attend the funeral, and then they also showed how Mia goes back to 2040. So how do Dinah and Laurel jump 20 years into the future to awaken Mia? Mia did make a point to no say anything about the future, but if the show does happen, then they have some 'splainin' to do.

    However, I liked that all the major players had parts in the finale, ranging from Moira and Robert, to Slade Wilson, to Tommy, to Emiko, to William, to Rory (Ragman), to Curtis, to Nyssa and Talia. The only player not in the finale was Malcolm Merlyn. He should have been there. Regardless of him being the new Demon's Head, he was a vital part of Oliver's life. Even if they just showed him in a flashback scene like they did with Slade.


    I also loved the implication that Diggle is going to be a Green Lantern. That was a Lantern Ring that fell from space if you didn't know. AND David Ramsey looks jacked!!!

    If this is a spin off show...YES!!!

    EDIT: A CW series with Diggle as a GL is probably not happening. They do not have the rights. There are movie plans, and this was just another tease.
    Last edited by Powder; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:20 PM.

  22. #382
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    I assumed that last week’s episode when Laurel and Dinah are in the future, that it was literally their 2040 versions that we saw and that Laurel was just waiting 20 years to make the move. Although it did also state that she had travelled a year into the future to see Star City and that’s what lead her back to that specific moment. (The kidnapping of Mia’s friend lead to the spiral and bleak future...)

    As far as Diggle, I’ve seen something that HBO is producing a Green Lantern Corps show, so I’m guessing that’s where he goes from here.

  23. #383
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    Yes last week was set in 2040, but Dinah said that she has no idea how she ended up there and no one knows her, so she started the bar in anonymity. And Laurel did not really have an explanation for how and why she was there, except to find Mia b/c she was further in the future, 2041 I believe, and that the kidnapping of Helena's daughter is the catalyst of what went wrong. But no real explanation of how she time traveled.

    The eventual GL movie will have Hal Jordan and John Stewart, but the HBO Max show is Berlanti's and the HUGE speculation coming out of Arrow is that Diggle will spin off to become a GL. I guess we have to wait and see.

  24. #384
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    If Diggle doesn’t become a Green Lantern, then somebody dropped the ball hard and should probably be fired. I know it started off a big fan theory, but Berlanti and company have really leaned into over the years. Why do you think there’s the episode of Arrow that introduced Digg’s step-father with the last name of Stewart? I guarantee that wasn’t a wink-wink, nod-nod moment just for shits and giggles and fan service.

    Edit:

    Although, I say all that and forgot that John Diggle has been written into the Green Arrow comics and is now canon in the DC comics universe... so him being John Stewart the Green Lantern is out, I suppose.

    And I totally forgot about Dinah saying she had no idea how or why she ended up in 2040 and no one knew of her and all that.
    Last edited by meandi; 3 Weeks Ago at 04:42 PM.

  25. #385
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    The main reason that Diggle may not be able to be the GL is the ownership of the rights to the brand. Yes, the Arrowverse blatantly hinted at it over the years, with an obvious stunt on the finale, but that could very well be as far as they can go. Giving us fan service.

    Now if the HBO Max show happens and they use Diggle, good for them. But I hope that is not the case. I do not want that show on yet another Streaming Service. Cut a deal with HBO and either have it on the 'main HBO' channel, or on the CW. I know that I am not paying for yet another service.

  26. #386
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    So, The Flash picked back up the other night, and it was very... Iris-centric. I guess after how great Felicity was during her “I’m a bad-ass, and I don’t need anyone’s help but my own” arc during season 7 of Arrow, they’ve decided to pass that on to Iris now. Man, I can’t wait for next year’s crossover of the new Green Arrow and the Canaries teaming up with the Citizen Brigade. That’s gonna be the most awesomest of awesome crossovers ever.

  27. #387
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    Haven't watched yet. Too much of my daughter's soccer, and Islander games.

  28. #388
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Saw Birds of Prey over the weekend. I thought it was bloody dire. There were some cool action sequences in there, Margot Robbie owned the Harley role the same way she did in Suicide Squad, but it felt wafer-thin in the character development, obnoxious in its production design and adolescent in its writing. Casting felt a bit off as well.

  29. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by meandi View Post
    So, The Flash picked back up the other night, and it was very... Iris-centric. I guess after how great Felicity was during her “I’m a bad-ass, and I don’t need anyone’s help but my own” arc during season 7 of Arrow, they’ve decided to pass that on to Iris now. Man, I can’t wait for next year’s crossover of the new Green Arrow and the Canaries teaming up with the Citizen Brigade. That’s gonna be the most awesomest of awesome crossovers ever.
    Finally watched Supergirl from 2 weeks ago, and Flash from this week. And both were just ugh. Supergirl is cheesy, and Jon setting up a mini Justice League bunker in his apartment complete with fake walls, and hidden elevators in less than 2 weeks is just insulting and such a terrible idea. besides who were all 6 call buttons for? Supergirl, Flash, Black Lightning, Batwoman, and who were the other 2? One was a spiral, and the other was 3 circles connected with lines. Brainy and Sarah Lance/Legends?

    And with Flash, to echo your statements, I think I really hate Iris West-Allen's character. I was joking throughout the episode with my daughter that too bad she is just not killed off. The team of reporter women? Then Cisco 'leaving'/ they really are making changes to the show aren't they?

    Listen, I love the face that movies and TV are more diverse than ever, and I respect that gay characters are getting more and more prominent roles, but the 'Iris team', is just checking off all the boxes. 2 Black Women, 1 Asian Woman, 1 Hispanic Woman. it is obviously forced, rather than be organic. No one bats an eye towards Cisco, or his GF. The initial change to make Iris West black ,had some resistance, but it worked. But every new character introduced is a minority. That is forcing things and trying too hard. Just let things be. Same for Birds of prey. Why is Black Canary Black? We have the Arrowverse with 2 different Black Canaries (3 if you count Sarah) and now we have a 3rd (4th), and now she is black. Changes for the sake of changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel 'Plan View Post
    Saw Birds of Prey over the weekend. I thought it was bloody dire. There were some cool action sequences in there, Margot Robbie owned the Harley role the same way she did in Suicide Squad, but it felt wafer-thin in the character development, obnoxious in its production design and adolescent in its writing. Casting felt a bit off as well.
    I heard it was bad, and that the Huntress in particular was terrible.


    Finally thank god that Joker did not win Best Picture as it did not deserve to even be nominated. Phoenix was great in the role and deserved the Award, but his performance alone does not make the movie Oscar worthy.
    Last edited by Powder; 1 Week Ago at 11:26 AM.

  30. #390
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=_KWTykV_J9Y

    The Batman screen test. It’s real.

  31. #391
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Only 2 options.

    Really good or absolutely terrible.

  32. #392
    I like that the suit looks rough like younger Bruce still hasn’t perfected his final suit. Time will tell.

  33. #393
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    Saw something somewhere that the bat emblem on his chest is supposedly made up of pieces of the gun that killed his parents. If true, that’s pretty cool and a great way of adding their own touch to this version.

  34. #394
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    I'm all caught up with Flash, and as each and every week passes, the more I am not liking this season at all. I HATE what Iris West-Allen turned into. She is not interesting, nor is she a good character, she is just get off my screen. I'm almost at the point of stopping watching.

    BatWoman still holds my interests.
    Legends is so tongue in cheek, it has its moments, but if I miss it, I'm not worried.
    Supergirl is also annoying at times. Cryer is awesome, and that is it.

  35. #395
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    I haven’t watched this week’s episode of Flash yet, but I was about ready to turn off last week’s episode about a quarter of the way through. I fought through it, though, and at the end when it was revealed that wasn’t really Iris, I sighed and said to myself “Welp, meandi... guess we’ll tune in next week and see the fallout. Surely it can’t be any worse than this when the ‘real’ Iris comes back.” Unfortunately, I’m expecting the worst. Pretty sure said I was probably done with Flash after this season in a few posts up, and so far... I have no real reason to change my mind yet. Here’s hoping they hit us with a great cliffhanger at the end of the season like they did in S2 when Barry ran back and saved his mom. That’s probably the only way I bother tuning in next year.

  36. #396
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    But when they did the Flashpoint story, it was vastly underwhelming. That should have been much bigger.

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