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  1. #161
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Reviews are coming back positive, but I am hesitant, and very skeptical.

  2. #162
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    I wouldn’t place too much stock in reviews. Early Captain Marvel reviews were all over the place, yet everybody I know that has seen it absolutely raves over it. It was the same for Black Panther if I remember correctly. Reviewers are, like, the ultimate trolls.

  3. #163
    Captain Marvel was a little more mixed than Black Panther, which was pretty much universally positive.

    I don't let them decide my opinion, but I definitely think there's value in review aggregate sites like RT or Metacritic.

  4. #164
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Reviews for Captain Marvel were positive from the reviewers, the fans were not as impressed.

  5. #165
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    That’s pretty much the complete opposite from what I’ve heard and read.

  6. #166
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    The reviewers were all impressed with the movie and fell in love with another "Female Lead". The fans felt like it was bland, was missing something, and that they had a few to many plot holes. They liked it, but it felt like watching Iron Man 2 rather than the movie leading into Endgame.

  7. #167
    Shazam is getting very good reviews. Sounds like it’s perfect for families, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
    Last edited by comfortablynumb; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:00 PM.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    The reviewers were all impressed with the movie and fell in love with another "Female Lead". The fans felt like it was bland, was missing something, and that they had a few to many plot holes. They liked it, but it felt like watching Iron Man 2 rather than the movie leading into Endgame.
    Again... complete opposite of what I've heard/read. Maybe I just found a few jaded reviews, but they were the ones pointing out plot holes, bland origin story, etc, while people I've talked to IRL absolutely rave about it. But... let's ditch this de-rail since this is the DC thread and not the Marvel thread.

  9. #169
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    Last comment I swear. The reviewers I am talking about are the news stations, and the Entertainment News programs, etc.

  10. #170
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Really find myself quite excited for Shazam, which has taken me somewhat by surprise - it's not that I wasn't looking forward to it, but rather that I've felt incredibly apathetic towards its existence. Maybe it's hearing a swell of positive reviews about it or something, but I'm actually suddenly very excited for its pending release! It looks like it might be a breath of fresh air among an environment of really quite seriously going superhero movies of the last year or so (and I'd include the poppy Aquaman in that too).

  11. #171
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    I for one actively stay away from reviews. Even though they don’t necessarily reveal the plot of the movie I still find they still say things that spoil part of said movie for me. I may look at one after I’ve seen a movie, but never before. Also why I’ve stopped watching trailers, be it on Twitter or at the cinema’s itself. I’ll go get my seat but get up for 10 minutes and leave the cinema while the 3 trailers show.

  12. #172
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    I do the same, I hate watching trailers, and I tend to not go to youtube, or I change the channel on my TV when they air, but there is just something that irks me about the Shazam commercials. Maybe that it appears to be very slapstick. I loved the way that the DCEU tried to include humor into Justice League (didn't really work, but they tried to lighted the darkness) and how Aquaman did it so seamlessly. But Shazam, on the surface, looks to be more of Teen Titans Go! type of humor aimed at young kids, rather than well written dialogue and good use of humor (in the way that Aquaman did and the MCU does). I have been rewatching Infinity War, and the general tone of the movie is the utmost seriousness, but the characters still crack jokes and lighten the mood.

    I just hope that the really silly parts are what they show in the trailers and commercials, and the rest of the movie has some substance to it, otherwise, I will be disappointed. Maybe not all, but I will.
    Last edited by Powder; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:33 AM.

  13. #173
    A slow descent into madness. Seems like an awesome villain origin story.


  14. #174
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    I will quote myself in a conversation I had with friends about this awful trailer.

    "This trailer is not just weird, the bath scene with mom for one, but it completely looks to be inspired by the Joker and taking the best villain of all time and trying to humanize him. Joker in recent times has been revealed to be somewhat of a meta human in that he is hyper smart and a true son of anarchy. This movie looks too artsy and non comic booky. Ledger's Joker was human but a child of chaos, Nicholson's Joker was about fun, revenge, and crime. This movie looks like a college senior's art film project that he wants to enter into contests and/or Cannes. I do not have high hopes."
    Then I heard that Phoenix only took the part if the story was original and rooted in reality, no superpowers or superheroes etc, and if you wanted to see a comic book movie, skip this one.

    My response to that was:

    "Then why call if Joker? Have the movie be the same type of story but without the clown stuff. It would be akin to having a movie about a vigilante whose parents were murdered in front of him as a child and as an adult he goes out at night dressed as a bat and prevents crime, but it is not Batman."
    This movie, based on the trailer, is a slap in the face of the Joker. The only connection appears to be that he wears clown makeup and it's set in Gotham. other than that, this is an art film disguised as a comic book movie.

    Not looking good as it appears to not even be about the Joker.
    Last edited by Powder; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:05 PM.

  15. #175
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    I had the complete opposite conversation with a buddy of mine. I was hesitant at first... but I’m really looking forward to this movie now.

  16. #176
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    So conversations continue, and...I said:

    I do not have a problem with a character study about someone who slowly loses his mind and leads to a psychotic break. That sounds like a good movie. BUT in 1000+ issues of DC comics and around 800+ issues of Batman and with the 30+ year old Killing Joke there has really never been a definitive Joker Origin story. Ever.

    Killing Joke by Alan Moore came the closest by giving us an origin but even in that book the Joker says about his origin. “ sometimes I remember it one way and sometimes another. If I’m going to have a last I prefer it to be multiple choice” which Moore through the Joker basically says that the origin story you are currently reading is not even true.

    The Joker is the only comic book person without an origin, and he doesn’t need one. He is perfect as he is. So this movie is someone idea of an art project about the Joker. Terrible
    That is my entire point. The truly horrifying thing about the Joker, which Batman even says on numerous occasions is that he has no idea who he is. There is nothing he can find out about him. Even when Killing Joke was brought into cannon and the Riddler confirmed it with something about the Joker's wife....but that was all wiped out by Flashpoint, and all of the other reboots.

    Regardless, the Joker does not need an origin. We got a pseudo origin in Killing Joke, then in 1989s Batman, no origin in 2008 TDK and again a pseudo origin in Suicide Squad, but both of those are based upon Killing joke where [insert name here] falls into the vat of chemicals. But no where in the comics is there any definitive origin.

    The Joker should not be portrayed as a "normal man" who loses his grip with reality and breaks and becomes the Joker.

    The Joker is brilliant, psychotic, charming, disturbing, sociopathic, horrifying, hysterical, remorseless, and cunning all at the same time. he is the perfect comic book character and his origin should be left alone without trying to create one for artsy movie purposes. besides there have been many talented comic book writers that never touched the subject, because it never needed to be done.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by meandi View Post
    I had the complete opposite conversation with a buddy of mine. I was hesitant at first... but I’m really looking forward to this movie now.
    I think it's going to be fantastic. Has a Taxi Driver vibe to it. Maybe a second actor would win an Oscar for playing the Joker. That'd be pretty cool.

  18. #178
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    I don't do trailers (too many spoilers) but I'll probably make time for Joaquin as the Joker!

  19. #179
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    I really find it weird that so many people are actually excited for this Joker movie. To me it is insulting to the Joker and DC comics.

    It would be like when the Hulk Hogan movie is made, and Hemsworth says that he will only make this movie if there is no wrestling involved. That he only wants to make the movie about Terry Bollea and about his development as a man. That he wants it to be an artistic movie about Bollea’s life but not about wrestling.

  20. #180
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    You could make a case that for any Joker film people will get excited for it initially, due to the nature of the Joker character being one of the best characters created in any media, period. But I'll wait to see the film before casting judgement.

    I've knocked plenty of trailers in the past only to be proved wrong once the film was released. With this, I'm intrigued. It seems to be a different direction, sure, but that could be what makes it unique.


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  21. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    I really find it weird that so many people are actually excited for this Joker movie. To me it is insulting to the Joker and DC comics.

    It would be like when the Hulk Hogan movie is made, and Hemsworth says that he will only make this movie if there is no wrestling involved. That he only wants to make the movie about Terry Bollea and about his development as a man. That he wants it to be an artistic movie about Bollea’s life but not about wrestling.
    Bizarre take. I've seen maybe 5 seconds of the trailer and it seems pretty obviously a new take on the Joker's origin (of which there are already dozens of versions) and how he was driven to become a master criminal.

  22. #182
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    That's the problem, as I said previously:

    I do not have a problem with a character study about someone who slowly loses his mind and leads to a psychotic break. That sounds like a good movie. BUT in 1000+ issues of DC comics and around 800+ issues of Batman and with the 30+ year old Killing Joke there has really never been a definitive Joker Origin story. Ever.

    Killing Joke by Alan Moore came the closest by giving us an origin but even in that book the Joker says about his origin. “ sometimes I remember it one way and sometimes another. If I’m going to have a last I prefer it to be multiple choice” which Moore through the Joker basically says that the origin story you are currently reading is not even true.

    The Joker is the only comic book person without an origin, and he doesn’t need one. He is perfect as he is. So this movie is someone idea of an art project about the Joker. Terrible
    There are not dozens of origin stories of the Joker. There are practically none because the Joker never needed one. Alan Moore came the closest but as stated above, he countered his own origin within the story.

    This trailer, looks to be a really cool character study on how a guy falls and becomes psychotic, which would be cool if it wasn't the Joker. One of the main attributes of the Joker is that no one, including Batman nor the Justice league know anything about who he really is.

    The Joker is so complex, so unknown, and so unpredictable that during one of DC's biggest cross overs, Infinite Crisis, he was not offered membership into the Villain Society by Alexander Luthor Jr. Bascially that the Legion of Doom and other villains in DC are afraid of the Joker because in no small part, they don't know anything about him.

    If I was asked about how to handle this movie, I would NOT have it be any sort of origin, but have it be a movie about the psychosis of the Joker told from his perspective and have Batman be the secondary character, possibly even a minor character. Have it start out with the Joker hearing about Batman in Gotham and when he sees him for the first time is when he finds his purpose. To go to Gotham and cause chaos to be the foil to the Bat. All told from Joker's point of view but showing how he is crazy.

    I would not have this be a humanizing origin making Joker just be a guy who through a series of really unfortunate events loses his mind. That completely undoes who the Joker is.

  23. #183
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    I mean there is a way to achieve what you're after... Just don't watch the movie and/or any further trailers.


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  24. #184
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    Switching gears...have any of you been watching Doom Patrol? The show is really good and completely tongue in cheek.

  25. #185
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    So I'm going to agree with Powder on the Joker trailer. As someone that has been a comics fan most of my life, I find little interest in the Joker movie. My first take on the trailer was that it looked like complete garbage. And talking to a lot of my friends who are comics fans, they too have little interest in the film. I'll be honest, I think it's going to tank. While I can appreciate a "new" take on the Joker, I agree that this just isn't the Joker. One thing I have seen though, is that you either love this trailer or you hate it, and there are a lot of people on both sides.

    As for Doom Patrol, I absolutely love it. It's perhaps one of my favorite TV superhero shows to date, and that's saying a lot. It's leaps and bounds better than Titans, and I'm really enjoying everything I've seen so far. Brendan Fraser is hysterical as Robot Man. I think the one weak link so far is the new guy playing Cyborg. It's always going to be a tough character to play, and I don't think the movies got it quite right either, but there's something about the Doom Patrol version that seems way off.

  26. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Are they Using the Killing Joke as the basis? if so, they better not reveal the Joker's name. The Joker should never have his true name revealed.



    This is why the Joker's name should always be never revealed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Ummm...yes it has. The Joker's origin has been properly explored in the Killing Joke, and while I didn't see the animated version b/c I heard they added more to the book, and I chose NOT to watch, it was made into a movie.

    And my quote above is about the Joker's origin and is from TKJ, and while Alan Moore gave Joker a history and an origin, he then scraps it by having the Joker say:



    Hollywood should realize that some characters are better explained without an explanation, especially the Joker.
    Hmm...my take from back in December on the Joker movie with Phoenix.

  27. #187
    Other than a few hurt fanboys, the response to the Joker trailer has been overwhelmingly positive. Most people see a great creative team behind it with an incredible actor, and that's enough to give the benefit of the doubt. It's going to make a ton of money.


    I enjoy Doom Patrol a lot. It's cheesy and fun. It's good seeing/hearing Brendan Fraser again. He needed a little comeback.

  28. #188
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    We are not hurt fanboys. If we were, we would be picking apart all that was wrong with the Nolan Trilogy, or the new DCEU. (i.e. Two face was NOT made by the Joker, he had acid thrown in his face by Sal Maroni, and who the hell is Rachel Dawes? She is no where near part of the Batman mythos) I thought Aquaman was fantastic even with all the changes they made, most obviously the fact that Mamoa looks nothing like Aquaman.

    We are saying that Joker is an iconic character, who is the third oldest comic book character behind Superman and Batman making his debut in April 1940. That is a 79 year old ICON without a true origin. So why start now?

    The people who "love the trailer" are probably not comic book fans, but know who the Joker is from 1989's Batman or The Dark Knight, or just from the Joker being a household name, and they say "hey this looks awesome". They have no idea who the Joker is.

    Why ruin 79 years of the perfect villain? Stupid. Nolan and Ledger got it right with their take on the Joker as they made him grounded in reality, but still kept him true to the comics.
    Last edited by Powder; 1 Week Ago at 12:14 PM.

  29. #189
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    Quick side rail, Powder... how did you feel when Marvel finally gave Wolverine a true origin story back in 2000 or whenever it was? (The actual comic book arc... not the shitty movie that came out in ‘09ish...)

  30. #190
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    I cannot really comment on the actual Marvel comics as I do not read Marvel, which is why, I'm sure you noticed, that I do not really comment on the comics side of Marvel, only the movies and TV shows. I know about the characters, but not the intricacies and nuances of the characters like I do with Batman and all of his underlings, villain, arcs, etc.

    I know my Fanboy shows a lot when it comes to Batman and his 80 year history, and my avatar is the f'n logo. My daughter's middle name is Grace after Dick Greyson for chrissake. But I can forgive a lot when it comes to movie and TV show adaptations, but you cannot change one if the most iconic characters in American history for the sake of an actor or movie.

    I gave the example of the Hulk Hogan movie earlier but how would people feel about changing the origin of Holden Caulfield, Willy Loman, or Atticus Finch?

    To me this Joker movies is like the following scenario: Hey, I've got a great idea; let's make an updated version of To Kill A Mockingbird, but let's have Atticus Finch be an ambulance chasing sleazy attorney but finds his place when forced to defend the notorious gangster Arthur "Boo" Radley.

    I bet that would not sit well with the audiences or fans or critics or teachers etc. But since we are talking about the Joker it is completely ok because Juaquin Phoenix is portraying this version of him and he is such a great actor and the film looks like a great character study.

    F off with that logic. The Joker is an American icon to the likes of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, etc, and now the rest of the Marvel heroes, and to change who he is for an artsy fartsy movie is down right insulting.
    Last edited by Powder; 1 Week Ago at 12:32 PM.

  31. #191
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    Your comparison to Kill A Mockingbird is apples and oranges. That’s already complete story with established history in that setting. You keep bringing up The Killing Joke and how even that isn’t a comprehensive origin story because of the whole “multiple choice” line... why can’t this movie be one of the “multiple choices”? Hell, after this movie, I say they do another Joker movie with a different origin and make an entire self-contained Joker universe in which we get different interpretations of his origin because of the whole multiple choice line from TKJ.

  32. #192
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    Joker has a complete history...but it is with primarily Batman. We do not know his origin, that is the difference. Does it matter with him? No it does not. All that Batman needs to know know is where, and when and how to stop the Joker. He has succumb to the fact that he may never know why the Joker does what he does, but he knows that he has to stop him.

    And to the multiple choice origins, that just makes my point further. Why delve into the possibilities? Why try to give the Joker an origin when no one else did who is in the genre? Making this movie is capitalizing on the Joker’s name and the comic book entertainment trend that has been for the past 20 years and that’s it.

    It does not need to be done. Again if only one writer made an attempt at the Joker’s origin and even he basically said that his version is not true, then why would I think that some Hollywood writer would do better than a life long comic fan who most likely grew up loving comics so much that he/she decided to go into that business?
    Last edited by Powder; 1 Week Ago at 02:32 PM.

  33. #193
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    Switching gears again.

    Shazam. If you look back at my previous posts I had some pretty severe reservations about this movie as it appeared to look like a complete slapstick comedy based on the trailers. It was NOT at all like that. Most of those slapstick moments are in the trailers. The movie has some real substance with the family subplot and it was an all around fun DCEU movie. They never said his true name of Captain Marvel to keep the confusion away from the MCU, but in the sequel I could see it happening. One of the running jokes was that they could not find a name for him. This movie was much better than I ever thought it would,be and it was fun. I do not think it is an all time great movie, but it is extremely entertaining. The main villain has a point, and it sets up for the sequel right in the first 10 minutes and in the mid credits scene. I would highly recommend a viewing, but you could wait for OnDemand or Netflix.

  34. #194
    The joker trailer is incredible, so I won’t complain. It has one of the best actors of the modern cinema on screen playing a character study of the best villain ever. Maybe not good for some, but more than good enough for me to go catch it in the movies

  35. #195
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    So Doom Patrol this week completely NAILED the Danny the Street character and the Perpetual Cabaret. The story was basically straight out of the Doom Patrol comic. Fantastic episode.

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