Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: Charlotte Flair

  1. #1
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    251

    Charlotte Flair

    I was listening to Clive's podcast a few days ago and his co-host Ricky said this:

    "When she is done, Charlotte Flair will mean as much to women's wrestling as her Dad does to men's"

    She has gone on the backburner since beating Asuka at Mania but I thought it was an interesting observation and one the WWE would certainly want to push. What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    320
    Charlotte's blown hot and cold in the WWE so far. I wonder if it's a mistake to downplay her the way they are at the moment because she went completely off the boil for a while there, and they'd gotten her back to being pretty significant again. If she ends up back in the same kind of rut she was before winning the title back from Nattie then I'd definitely call it a blunder.

  3. #3
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    70
    I think that Ricky may be correct. Charlotte is clearly the best all around woman on the roster. I would like to think that Ruby Riott can elevate herself, or at least the company does to be the foil to Charlotte. Every main star has their counterpart.

    Hogan had Piper
    Flair had Dusty and then Sting
    Austin had Rocky and vice versa
    Cena had Orton and Edge
    Bryan has The Miz
    Hart had HBK

    Charlotte needs someone, I hope its Riott, as she is the best candidate on the current roster.

  4. #4

    Smile

    I agree. She's been involved w/ several of the firsts since the Revolution began. She may have another two major firsts if WWE does go w/ the reported Rousey-Flair main event at WM35 - first woman to main event WM and also the first child of a past WM headliner to headline WM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powder
    I think that Ricky may be correct. Charlotte is clearly the best all around woman on the roster. I would like to think that Ruby Riott can elevate herself, or at least the company does to be the foil to Charlotte. Every main star has their counterpart.

    Hogan had Piper
    Flair had Dusty and then Sting
    Austin had Rocky and vice versa
    Cena had Orton and Edge
    Bryan has The Miz
    Hart had HBK

    Charlotte needs someone, I hope its Riott, as she is the best candidate on the current roster.
    Not a bad choice. Quite a few praised her performance against Charlotte at Fastlane.

    Twitter: @libsuperstar

  5. #5
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    344
    I love Charlotte, but I feel like that quote seriously underplays just how meaningful Ric was to wrestling in general. He's no less than the consensus pick for the best performer of all time. I think it'll be years before we can even assess if Charlotte begins to approach the bar set by her dad.

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    320
    To be fair, women's wrestling is so less well established that to "mean as much to women's wrestling as her Dad does to men's" could potentially require a much less successful performer.

  7. #7
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    344
    Perhaps in America, but with a statement that broad you also have to consider that in Japan there's a history of women's wrestling being a huge draw in the 80s and 90s, as well as being much more critically acclaimed than what we've seen so far in WWE. I guess maybe some will regard that as a technicality but at best it feels like Charlotte may be able to break new ground regionally, instead of worldwide, unlike her Dad who set the standard in his prime across the whole world.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan
    Perhaps in America, but with a statement that broad you also have to consider that in Japan there's a history of women's wrestling being a huge draw in the 80s and 90s, as well as being much more critically acclaimed than what we've seen so far in WWE. I guess maybe some will regard that as a technicality but at best it feels like Charlotte may be able to break new ground regionally, instead of worldwide, unlike her Dad who set the standard in his prime across the whole world.
    They would draw to the tune of 30-40K to the Tokyo Dome. Quite impressive! Liked how WWE would bring in female talent from Japan such as Bull Nakano, Aja Kong, Jumping Bomb Angels and Crush Gals. Today they have Japanese women on the regular roster.

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    12
    Full agreement with mizfan. I have always found Charlotte to be overrated; she's very good now, but the notions of her being the greatest of all time are so ridiculous, and so obviously just WWE PR. As an in ring worker, she is arguably not even the best in the WWE. She's not appreciably better than Asuka, or Becky, or Sasha. And then when you compare her to other promotions or all time greats like Minami Toyota*, the comparisons become even more absurd. The same people who tout her as the GOAT are the ones who uncritically swallowed the whole 'Shawn Michaels is the GOAT' line because WWE's announcers repeated it ad nauseum for over a decade and had those slick video packages and suddenly everyone who only watches WWE (or grew up on the 90's WWF) started believing it.

    *Toyota was so good that I have seen serious wrestling critics put her in the very top elite category of workers and as being as good as any male wrestler. Can anyone honestly say that about Charlotte?

    Another comparison that comes to mind is how these days now that Rollins has been on fire, people have started proclaiming him to be the best worker in the world, and I'm like 'have you even seen Okada or Omega?' I'm not bashing on WWE fans, but if you *only* watch WWE, you really shouldn't be pontificating on who the best in the world is.
    Last edited by Alan; 1 Week Ago at 03:31 PM.

  10. #10
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    344
    ^Talking up Manami Toyota and calling out HBK's questionable GOAT status? I like you, guy.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    320
    Good response Mizzie, without realising I'd been just thinking about it in American terms. Japan does change the game.

  12. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    ^Talking up Manami Toyota and calling out HBK's questionable GOAT status? I like you, guy.
    It's Allystare, just with a new username (or an old one I couldn't get the last time we had a board shuffle).

  13. #13
    Charlotte is an awful babyface. I can't consider someone that great of a worker if they can't possibly work face.. Not to say just being a great heel isn't important skill but doing both sets people apart. Charlotte hasn't been able to draw sympathy, ever in my opinion. Her matches have only been good when she's in there with someone better than her as a performer. She can't raise anybody else's performance. Unlike a Shawn Michaels.

    Even if I think she's gotten better recently, the notion that Charlotte is the best WWE women's wrestler is down right laughable.

  14. #14
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    344
    Thinking back, I have generally preferred Charlotte as a heel, so I think that's fair to say at least. I'm still high on Charlotte, but she's not exactly flawless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    It's Allystare, just with a new username (or an old one I couldn't get the last time we had a board shuffle).
    Ah, nice! Good to see you back!

  15. #15
    I don't know, I actually think there are better women on the roster at both wrestling - Becky, Ruby, Asuka - and connecting with the crowd - Sasha, Bayley, Asuka (again) - than Charlotte.

    I'd actually say that Asuka should be her continued nemesis throughout their careers, in a Trish/Lita style. To be honest, I think there's a lot of money to be made with those two going head to head, and if WWE play their cards right they could actually build a big event around that face off as the main event rather than rely on the 'crossover appeal' of a Rousey or similar to be in the opposite corner to either one of them.

    90% of my issue with the way the WWE has handled the Horsewomen from NXT is that they burnt through them all having matches against each other - or at least 3/4 of them having matches against each other - way to quickly on Raw. With Becky isolated on Smackdown but not really being on top there, and probably having a reduced role to play there now that Charlotte and Asuka are on the brand and observedly above her in WWE's mind, we're probably missing out - possibly will completely miss out - on any competitive Charlotte/Sasha/Bayley vs Becky matches now and in the future. I'd maintain the Becky is the best wrestler of the four, too, so it's kind of a shame if she doesn't get a chance to have competitive matches with those three and the likes of Asuka.

    I think you could easily say that when she's done Charlotte will mean as much to WWE's idea of women's wrestling as her dad does to WWE's idea of men's wrestling.

  16. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post

    I think you could easily say that when she's done Charlotte will mean as much to WWE's idea of women's wrestling as her dad does to WWE's idea of men's wrestling.
    Ric Flair doesn't mean what they want Charlotte to mean in WWE's idea of wrestling though. That spot, in WWE canon, belongs to HBK.

  17. #17
    That's true, actually.

    I'm actually they've moved on a bit from Charlotte - assuming she doesn't end up winning MitB and getting a revenge cash in on Carmella, that is - as champion. I think stepping back a step with her will serve her well in the long run - she's pretty much been the focus of the women's side of things since the moment she was called up, and I can imagine people getting a little tired of it.

    I don't imagine it will last past the end of summer - and with Asuka challenging Carmella I can see her winning and taking the title to a Summerslam rematch with Flair - but it will be good to have them focus elsewhere for a bit.

  18. #18
    As it should be. Macho Mourn's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    103
    ^ Yeah. They're gonna switch the story this time, and allow Charlote to start the slide to heel.

    I have Charlotte winning the RR in January. Her and Rousey's a lock next year.

    “Stoop to your own level. Your nature. Trust yourself. And most importantly... You have to learn what laws are really laws and not… Oppression."

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Macho Mourn
    ^ Yeah. They're gonna switch the story this time, and allow Charlote to start the slide to heel.

    I have Charlotte winning the RR in January. Her and Rousey's a lock next year.
    A heel Charlotte winning the Rumble? Take my money.

    Twitter: @libsuperstar

  20. #20
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    320
    It's interesting that everyone in here so far says they prefer her as a heel to babyface, when to look at her career to date she's gotten over far more as a babyface, and most of the criticism that has been thrown her way has been while she's been working as a heel.

    I mean, the track record appears to be heel in NXT and didn't do much, turns babyface and becomes the biggest thing on the show (including becoming the female star of the company on call-up) turns heel and gets some of the worst reviews on the show for her promo work and ultimately falls back to a smaller position on the card, before turning babyface again and being built up enough to become the clear top talent again and ending Asuka's streak.

    I wouldn't want to say it was proof, exactly, but I do think even if it doesn't imply causation there's a definite correlation between her being in a babyface role and having success so far. Nor am I saying that just because the bulk of the audience seem to feel that way, that everyone has to go along with the same opinion. But it's interesting to me, nonetheless.

  21. #21
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    251
    I really liked her as a face honestly, her moveset is naturally flashy and that lets her lean into it. I also didn't think she was that great on the mic as a heel, very hit or miss however things seem to be a bit easier for her as a face who just gets in there and kicks arse (at least that is how I feel).

    After all the stuff she went through last year I think she positioned herself well to be someone young girls can look up to. Anecdotally Doc said his daughter is obsessed with Charlotte.

  22. #22
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    344
    I know people didn't like it because mumble mumble something about feminism, but probably my favorite Charlotte is when Ric was managing her and interfering in matches. Granted I haven't always been watching her work closely but at the time I thought they made a great team and always had a blast watching them.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •