Page 16 of 16 FirstFirst ... 6141516
Results 601 to 636 of 636

Thread: NXT

  1. #601
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,210
    I really like NXT, and this week's show showed some "innovation" (at least for the USA version of the show)...

    But I'm kind of bored of it. I'll be honest, match quality really is the least interesting part of a wrestling show for me. I know, it's blasphemous. But in my opinion, whether it's Raw, Dynamite, NXT, Fusion, ROH, or Impact (I can't include SD right now), I can find matches I enjoy. It really isn't hard to find good wrestling matches.

    So what becomes interesting to me is how they get to the matches. And while I appreciated seeing another Dream promo that stands out from the rest of NXT, and the somewhat funny clips of the BroSerWeights trying to get to Portland, and the Ciampa promo in the auditorium, and Mark Henry hyping Lee vs Dijak, and the Robert Stone Brand promo in the boardroom... every feud really seems to be about simple athlete vs athlete competitiveness. Obviously, this needs to be the focal point of every wrestling show. But when it's the same idea over and over, it wears itself thin. Bronson was looking to fight Strong because of a backstage confrontation last week. Kushida got his match with Cole because... of a backstage confrontation last week. Dakota vs Candice took place because of a confrontation between them (I can't remember if it was backstage or last week, but it still fits the pattern).

    Right now, Raw is a more enjoyable show for me than NXT. Or maybe I look forward to Raw more, because it shows more variety overall. And that seems very very strange.

  2. #602
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,041
    I tend to agree with Pen's statement. The matches are good, and entertaining, but outside of Cole/Ciampa, Dream/Strong, Gargano/Balor and Kai/Nox, why is everyone else feuding? There is no real story there.

    This Sunday with Ripley and Belair, feels like a formality because we all know the Story is Charlotte vs Ripley at Mania, unless they are going with a Triple Threat, as there is history between Belair and Charlotte. The Rumble elimination, and if Charlotte costs Belair the match on Sunday.

    But why are Lee and Djakovic fighting for the title? Lee just came out last week and offered him a NA title shot. Henry's video segment was great, but it seemed to be just...hey these guys has a great series of matches, so let's give them one more. Why couldn't NXT have Dijakovic cut a promo to why he should get a title shot?

    NXT has great wrestlers and they clearly have the Sports side down, but now they need to develop the Entertainment side of the Sports Entertainment.

  3. #603
    Dijakovic beat Dain in a No. 1 contenders match last week.

  4. #604
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,041
    That was a #1 contender's match? I completely forgot. I guess that shows even more how there is no build to that match.

  5. #605
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,869
    Yeah, that was a #1 contenders match.

    I don't disagree with the comments from Pen - I think this is what NXT has 'lost' in recent times. and why I'll often say the peak of NXT was when they had Sami pursuing and then winning the title because they actually told main event level stories. That run of events from Arrival to Unstoppable was great for the men's title, and then into Brooklyn and respect you had the run to finish off telling Bayley's story, which they had built with really soft hands throughout the couple of years before.

    The Balor/Joe stuff you could argue was a strongish story, but I also think it was around this time that the men's main event side became really stagnant and reliant on number one contender matches or backstage attacks and so on. Even the good stuff - DIY vs Revival, Almas vs Gargano etc - has come from a place of athletic superiority rather than actual stories being told.

  6. #606
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,210
    Powder, you're way in the wrong here. The story isn't elaborate, but it's one of the rivalries that's been around the longest. Lee vs Dijakovic has been mostly a competition based feud, with them trading wins and looking even. Now that a title is on the line and Dijak earned a title shot, it's an easy match to book. Other than Ciampa vs Cole, it's the best story of the PPV.

    But all the stories are the same.

  7. #607
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,041
    I get that they have a long history, but is that enough justification for a title match? IMHO, no. When they feuded on the beginnings of NXT on USA, it was clear that Keith Lee was the breakout star of the pairing, and Dijakovic was going to be a good worker who just got passed over. I still see that happening, BTW. But with that said, I think what would have been better would have been:

    Hold off on Velveteen Dream's return until Takeover,

    Then give Roderick Strong a rematch for the NA Title against Lee, during the ending of the match, Velveteen Dream either makes his return and costs Strong the title, or makes his return after Strong loses to Lee.

    During the weekly broadcasts NXT holds a #1 contender's tourney for the NA Title shot with the culmination match being at Takeover, where you get Dijakovic vs Dain on the PPV where Dijakovic wins and gets the title shot. Then that title match is set for the Takeover on April 4th. The match is then built around Lee and Dijakovic's long history. That would make people more invested, and long term planning. Not just Lee beat Strong, have a match the next week, and then fight for the title because you guys used to wrestle.

  8. #608
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,210
    You're again doing the "here's why it's wrong, and here's how my idea is better for me"

    But no one cares about you except you. You're not considering the entire roster or the entire fanbase with your idea.

    Dream returning on TV is more important right now. As much as HHH and WWE downplay their concerns about losing ratings to AEW, they will be making changes to Wednesday nights. And making more story beats happen on TV will be part of it. Dream returning was more important overall to happen on TV and not on PPV.

    Also, I'm confident Dream and Strong will have some screen time on Sunday.
    Plus, you don't know the plan for April 4th. Maybe they have an even bigger match in mind for Lee. You're taking a single decision, and ignoring the fact that there was 7 weeks between Takeovers, and deciding they've done it wrong.


    There's no need for long term planning with Lee vs Dijak. It wrote itself, and the fans are interested. The idea that these stories are all the same does not mean none of them should be this way. Lee vs Dijak has a great existing story, and that is enough.

  9. #609
    I see Mansoor will be on the Takeover preshow. I guess it’s time to defrost him for the next Saudi show.

  10. #610
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,869
    I just read that Queen Cathy is leaving WWE after Takeover Portland. It's funny, but I feel like she's become an essential part of the show for me just as a regular backstage interviewer, in much the way Renee was in the early stages. Hopefully she gets one last segment with Dream before she goes.

    Is anybody else hoping that Finn just destroys Gargano this weekend? I don't really like Finn much, but feel like that's the best route for that match to take right now.
    Last edited by Oliver; 02-16-2020 at 06:25 AM.

  11. #611
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,210
    Welp, another NXT event with an increasing amount of spots, insane kickouts that ruin "believability", and general wrestling silliness. IT wasn't bad in any way, but despite the online RAVE REVIEWS!!!!, I found myself getting bored as the show went on. Again, none of it was bad, but it felt like the same formula was used in most of the matches. The women were a little different, though still had their own kickouts and excessive setting up for spots. But I can't stress enough how little I care for Adam Cole. Whenever I'm not watching live, I skip his matches because they are the most formulaic of the bunch. And the Panama Sunrise is the silliest version of the already ridiculous Destroyer. Doing it on the floor, and it leading to a kickout when they get back in... I was done. Gargano's heel turn fell flat for me because I was disinterested in the match by the time he was ringside.

    Takeover went from the best WWE had to offer, to "meh" in about a year. And it truly feels like Adam Cole is the center of that (though the entire roster seems to be wrestling the style Cole brought to NXT main events about a year ago).

  12. #612
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,869
    Cole...I've never liked Adam Cole. And he's never proved my dislike wrong.

    Takeover has become this thing where nearly every match goes five minutes beyond what it needs to. Last night, I would say the Lee/Dijakovic, Gargon/Balor, and Cole/Ciampa all outstayed their welcome by that long - with those last two possible nearing ten minutes too long.

    I think this is a shift from around about the time of the Gargano/Ciampa matches where they went out and started putting together 30+ minute matches. The difference is that they all worked together really well and told a thorough, detailed story in their execution. Gargano/Almas might be the true genesis of that theme. Before that match there had been only one match over 30 minutes in the history of Takeover, which was WarGames - and I'd argue you could make an exception around that. Sasha/Bayley obviously lasted exactly 30 minutes. Then there were only two matches in the 25-30 minute range, both Roode vs Nakamura matches.

    Since the start of 2018? 10 over 30 minutes (2 WarGames, plus the ridiculous 50 minute Cole/Gargano), and 4 between 25 and 30.

    The brevity of Takeover used to be the thing that really made it function for me, and I think they've started to take that away with these longer matches. Used to be in and done in a couple of hours - last night was up over three.

    EDIT: One of things I thought really popped last night, along a similar theme to the above, were the two women's matches. Both around the 14 minute mark, and both got their shit in and then left. Nox/Kai was excellent, I thought, and really hit the storyline beats that it needed to. Rhea/Bianca worked well in terms of character, Rhea getting to look like an absolute beast when on the attack and Belair getting to show off that she has great power and athleticism.

    I kind of hope that the Charlotte/Belair interactions lead somewhere - even if it's an NXT TV blow off bout. It probably has an obvious outcome, but I think that would be a good mini-feud to tell between now and Mania.

    Do we assume that there's isn't going to be a women's title match on the Takeover: Tampa Bay card if Ripley is defending on the Mania card? More than anything to avoid them having the difficulty of building to a match that will have an obvious winner at Takeover - going into Portland I felt like they did enough to build a little bit of heat between Belair and Flair to make it possible that they'd switch the title. I can't see that happening in the run up to Mania.
    Last edited by Oliver; 02-17-2020 at 08:40 AM.

  13. #613
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    5,044
    Didn't watch the show but I'm not sure there's a bigger example of my '.... and then, alas, the bell rang' in modern wrestling than Adam Cole. I totally get what they see in him in general and why several different bookers have put him in a prominent position, but my god I don't think I've enjoyed any of his matches, ever.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  14. #614
    I have to say I really enjoyed the show as I played video games on my other TV. I can't say I disagree with your criticisms but personally I wasn't too bothered by them.

    I definitely think Cole-Ciampa was hurt by the rest of the card being all top-shelf main-event type matches though. It also seems that WWE wanted this Takeover to be beefier since it was slotted like a usual WWE PPV on a Sunday with more advertised matches than any previous Takeover. Maybe a shorter seventh match and knocking off 10 minutes on two previous matches been better if they wanted this to go three hours? I don't know.

    The tag match and the Lee-Dijakovic were my two favorites, with the latter being one of my favorite matches this year.

    If both the men's and women's NXT titles are being defended at Wrestlemania, Ciampa-Gargano could possibly be the Takeover headliner if they really get the hype train behind it. I was not a fan of the ending of that match last night, but the feud always was supposed to have that one final match to end it all.

  15. #615
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,869
    I actually liked the way they handled Gargano, specifically, last night. There was that moment in the Balor/Gargano match, when he hit the dropkick into the barricade, where I flashed back to the look he had during his descent into madness opposite Ciampa and how that all pulled together into explaining why Gargano acted like he did. It might have only been a small moment, but that association came to me immediately. And then it ties into the ending of the main with Ciampa/Cole, and Gargano going straight back to being against Ciampa because he started to lose faith in himself again.

    I'm not really against them going back to the Ciampa/Gargano well for one (hopefully) last time, as their story certainly wasn't finished when it was cut short. But I don't like that they did it without much more than that one moment in the Balor match, and that I'm really sure I'm extrapolating myself and actually has little or nothing to do with the story itself. I mean, I tied that together, and they might well have had the bigger story in mind through that bit of acting in the match. But it feels like they're pulling the trigger on something that could, and should, be a lot more complex given the history.

    We'll see. I'm happy to wait and see on that, because their previous work and storytelling has been so good.

    I don't think Cole should defend the title on the Mania card - unless they do a showcase match in the same way they did with Dunne at Survivor Series, which had little build but could be banked on to deliver. Having the Tampa Bay show without Ripley and the women's title is one thing. Having it without both top singles championships? That's a completely different thing all together, and I don't think it works.

  16. #616
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    895
    I agree with Pen in getting board as the show wore on. That's been a problem for me with Takeover for the better part of two years now, though. The shows are structured really poorly in that they aren't structured at all, it's just six main event matches.

    The last two were a chore to get through. I have no idea why anyone in that company would allow Ciampa to take that wheelbarrow bump into the table. Are they not hoping to make money with that guy, or is he expendable? I was immediately done with the match at that point. Unfortunately it went on for four more years after that spot.

    I truly don't understand. With a few more basic wrestling exchanges and a little more selling, they could have eliminated a lot of the sequences in that match. In terms of story telling, they did like five matches worth of stuff. That table bump is the number one, top, countout finish bump in one match. The ARC on the apron is a finish of another match. The Destroyer on the floor is the finish of a third match. The interference stuff into the Last Shot is the finish of a fourth. And the actual finish is the fifth.

    Why do it all? Is it just to stretch to 33 minutes?

    Again, you can do that with a few more down spots and more wrestling up front.

    I think I'd be a lot less down on it if they'd cut the entire sequence with the ARC on the apron into the floor Destroyer into no-selling the floor Destroyer. And maybe kill the interference entirely if you're going to do a ref bump anyway.

    For a program with fairly little build, they certainly acted like it was the final match of a years-long angle.

    The whole show was like that for me, though. Lee and Dijak was a really fun match. I don't care for the Olive Oyl girls in the hardcore match, but I hope they're getting paid better than I've heard NXT deals pay the lower end folks. GIRLS DON'T NEED TO DO EVERYTHING GUYS DO so quit it with the unnecessary, and dangerous, table bumps. That one girl is lucky to be alive and not seriously injured. Gargano and Balor was a lot of fun and a well-wrestled match with a lot of great psychology. The Women's title match was off the charts good.

    And I wish they'd just ended the show there with Charlotte coming out and doing her thing.

  17. #617
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,041
    Sounds like I turned it off at just the right time. I made it through the Balor/Gargano match, and while I enjoyed it all up until then... it seems like, with the exception of the Belair/Ripley match, I didnít really miss much else. Speaking of Belair, while I was impressed with her during the Rumble (first time seeing her), I have no desire to watch her again. I see nothing but a Sasha Banks wannabe, and... Sasha does it better. However, Tegan Nox is now on my radar, and I definitely want to see more of her.

  18. #618
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    895
    I don't see anything in Nox or the other one.

    They're average girls. I know a half dozen of these girls. Average skills, average charisma, physically not built for pro wrestling, but they're so much more over than anything about them warrants because they're pretty, skinny, a little nerdy and come off as "gettable". Guys will fall all over these highly average girls because they're good looking, but not so good looking that they feel unattainable and girls will get behind them because they aren't a threat.

  19. #619
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,041
    Dakota Kai is pretty? Ok...she's all yours.

  20. #620
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,041
    I honestly wasnít basing that on looks or attainability. Iím just a sucker for a girl that throws a shining wizard.

  21. #621
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,869
    Quote Originally Posted by meandi View Post
    Sounds like I turned it off at just the right time. I made it through the Balor/Gargano match, and while I enjoyed it all up until then... it seems like, with the exception of the Belair/Ripley match, I didnít really miss much else. Speaking of Belair, while I was impressed with her during the Rumble (first time seeing her), I have no desire to watch her again. I see nothing but a Sasha Banks wannabe, and... Sasha does it better. However, Tegan Nox is now on my radar, and I definitely want to see more of her.
    The tag match was, I thought, really good and probably my match of the night on a rewatch. Very easy to watch, good pace, and excellent in ring.

    As for Bianca - honestly, I sort of get the Sasha comparison when it comes to character but they are completely different wrestlers. I think Bianca has 'it' more than any woman on the NXT roster.

  22. #622
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,869
    Ok, so we need to talk about NXT last night.

    Was it just me, or was it REALLY bad?

  23. #623
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,210
    No, it was ok. But they've set a high bar, and didn't reach it, so it feels bad.

    That's my view of it. They definitely messed up the ending. I think there was a timing issue, and everything became rushed.

  24. #624
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,041
    NXT has it's own issues. For instance, Dijakovic has been placed as Keith Lee's potential career rival, like Cena and Orton. And last week they had Dijakovic position himself to get one more shot at the NA Championshop, then last night, the WWE had him lose to Cameron Grimes. Why? If the plan is to keep Dijakovic strong and even face Lee one more time, why have him lose on TV to Grimes, even with an 'injury spot'.

    A 6'7", 270lb powerhouse who is also a high flyer should not be losing cleanly to Cameron Grimes that easily.

    Then the entire entrance of Ripley. She spent way too much time doing her entrance, waiting for the appropriate time to stomp her foot to finally go after Charlotte. I know that is the lack of experience showing, but someone should have told her that once your music hits, go straight to the ring and attack Charlotte. It was clear that Charlotte was looking at her with the look on her face saying...come on already.

  25. #625
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,210
    Cleanly? Didyou forget he got a baton strike to the back of the leg from Damian Priest?

  26. #626
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,041
    I guess I completely missed that, I changed the channel during the match.

  27. #627
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,210
    It's funny (I am suddenly HHH), because you were just saying how Brock should be making Ricochet look better (in the Showdown thread, I think), but don't like how Dijak helped make Grimes look better. There are so many ways to tell stories in wrestling. Sometimes the dominant guy loses to make a new star, and something the dominant guy dominates to stay the big star so he puts over the next guy as the new star.

  28. #628
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,041
    Yes, but not at the expense of someone else they are currently pushing. Unless Dijak is moving out of the NA title picture and into a fued with Priest, and Grimes is moving into the NA picture against Lee. Grimes could have beaten the kid Austin Theory that Ciampa wrestled. Theory is big, in shape and has a future, but he needs work. Grimes and Theory having a match where Grimes wins convincingly and makes Theory look good could have done the same.

    Ciampa could have faced almost anyone else if the plan was for Gargano to run in.

    I'm not a fan of Grimes', but if NXT is pushing him, then so be it.

  29. #629
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,869
    Grimes going over Dijakovic is fine. It's been due to interference from Priest. It gives Dijakovic two potential title matches immediately after beating Lee (we're it to happen) and at the very least two follow up bouts after losing to Lee where he can reassert himself or get another guy over to be the new challenger to Lee.

    I think my main issue with the show was that they did three back to back matches which in someway ended with a sneak attack/distraction from someone else. Felt a bit like a misstep backstage to do all those together.

  30. #630
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,869
    So - oh boy - are we getting Dream vs Cole at Takeover: Tampa?

    Do we now get to have Dream as the NXT Champion?

    I really, really enjoyed NXT this week. Green vs Blackheart was a little sloppy but at least had a purpose for happening, but otherwise everything delivered in the ring, they got to some new places which will lead to interesting matches, plus the two taped promos from Ripley and, especially, Gargano were excellent.

    I like that they found a couple of new(er) ways to end a cage match, too.

  31. #631
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,210
    That change of direction was the best thing NXT has done in months, and NXT has been very good. But such a natural transition for Dream to switch from Roddy to the NXT title and Cole was a masterpiece. I won't say I marked out, but when Dream shut the door to lock Cole in the cage with him, I definitely had a Renťe Young "oh" as my slow brain connected what was about to happen.


    I've seen some complaints online about Dream's ring work and how he doesn't deserve the NXT title. It's moments like this that I hate being an online fan, because I hate being associated with people who refuse to just enjoy a show. Dream has been rough. Unlike most of the indy guys who end up in NXT, Dream doesn't have a decade of experience, so I feel his ring rust is acceptable. But we've seen him wrestle great matches, such as his work with Aleister Black (make a mental note to watch that again on my lunch break). He's not a typical indy wrestler with spots and finisher spamming kickouts. So either one of these reason or the combination somehow tells these entitled prick fans that unless he's giving a match like Bucks vs Page/Omega, he's not the right person to lead NXT.

    This isn't AEW. This is NXT that is still under the WWE Umbrella. The worst part (for me and some others) of NXT lately was how many main event matches were the same style. Dream represents a change, and a super fresh one. It's an 80s WWF style change, because it could become style over substance. Persona over performance. Dream can wrestle a 4 star match, though I'm guessing he needs the right opponent (he's not Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels). But he gets the presentation better than Adam Clown Cole ever fucking could.

  32. #632
    I loved the ending. Not a knock on Ciampa at all, but Dream is going to get more out of Adam Cole than Ciampa can as far as character. And that is sure to help the title scene. It’s also been such a natural buildup for Dream over the years. They’ve done a great job with him and he’s done a great job making that gimmick work at first and then making it his own.

  33. #633
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,869
    I had a lot of fun - again - watching NXT this morning. Lee vs Grimes was good for what it was, and it looks like we're going for at least a Lee vs Dijakovic vs Priest triple threat at Takeover in battle of big men doing big men things.

    The women's ladder match field is starting to grow, with Green, Yim, and Nox now entered. Personally I enjoyed Yim vs Kai a lot more than Nox vs Purazzo. I'm not sure there's a clear winner of that match yet established in the field, which makes it all the better.

    They seem to be trying to do something interesting with Raul Mendoza and the masked men that kidnapped him, which I suspect people's mileage will vary on. I appreciate them trying to reboot someone that's not had much opportunity to show their best on NXT, and just looking through his history it certainly seems like they feel he has the in ring ability to be something important going forward, having had a title match with Almas on a house show and a Cruiserweight title match with Rush on 205 Live.

    Broserweights vs TUE was as good as can be expected - which is, you know, very good. And Gargano/Ciampa has pretty much picked up where it left of.

    A minor criticism - I hate that Mauro is sat there saying 'why Johnny? Why?' all the time. Like, Mauro has seen everything that Ciampa did to Gargano in their feud. Dude was scum of the Earth during that. And I get that NXT might want you to feel like Gargano has no reason for what he's doing, but ultimately his motivations are those of revenge but they're twisted into a heel persona in terms of actions. All Gargano seems to want is an apology that Ciampa isn't willing to give - an apology for ruining his life, for losing him his job at NXT, for spitting on his wedding ring - all the shit he did to him. I can kind of appreciate that it's a bit nuanced to communicate 'this guy is in the right, but doing it the wrong way', and it's not really the way WWE generally goes about these kind of thing when trying to draw a black/white line for the performers, but if pretty much all of the fans can work out why this is happening, and we're only a week removed from Gargano telling us why it's happening, screaming 'BUT WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHY?' over the top of a show ending brawl isn't a particularly smart commentary message, for me.

  34. #634
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    3,041
    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    A minor criticism - I hate that Mauro is sat there saying 'why Johnny? Why?' all the time. Like, Mauro has seen everything that Ciampa did to Gargano in their feud. Dude was scum of the Earth during that. And I get that NXT might want you to feel like Gargano has no reason for what he's doing, but ultimately his motivations are those of revenge but they're twisted into a heel persona in terms of actions. All Gargano seems to want is an apology that Ciampa isn't willing to give - an apology for ruining his life, for losing him his job at NXT, for spitting on his wedding ring - all the shit he did to him. I can kind of appreciate that it's a bit nuanced to communicate 'this guy is in the right, but doing it the wrong way', and it's not really the way WWE generally goes about these kind of thing when trying to draw a black/white line for the performers, but if pretty much all of the fans can work out why this is happening, and we're only a week removed from Gargano telling us why it's happening, screaming 'BUT WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHY?' over the top of a show ending brawl isn't a particularly smart commentary message, for me.
    I'm not sure I agree with this statement.

    This was Kurt Angle's entire personality for the first few years of his career before he turned face. The three "I's". He came out and told us how what he was preaching is the way to live. The fact that he was so over the top, but technically correct, made him a heel in the process. the 'I am better than you' mantra.

    Also CM Punk's first push was exactly the same. His entire Straightedge persona (not actual lifestyle) was that 'Being straightedge, makes me better than you.' The entire aspect of being straightedge is that you do not drink, or do drugs, etc, and that is a bad thing? No way, but he was so over the top that he was a heel. Just look at the Punk vs Jericho feud. Punk was 100% correct, but was the heel in the feud.

    Then we also must look to last year with Daniel Bryan as the Planet's Champion. Every promo that Bryan said was basically correct. That we as a whole, were not taking care of the planet, and that he felt it was his job to educate us on it. He spoke down to the audience and made them feel like crap, and so over the top that he became a heel, but everything he said was correct.

    So Gargano trying to remind the NXT/WWE universe of how bad Ciampa was prior to him getting injured, but going at it, in an over the top way, has been used before with major players. I know it is only 3 examples, but I am sure that others will find more, but this type of gimmick, where you are morally correct, but going at it in the wrong way has been used many times in the WWE.

    I just hope that 'Gargano puts together' a video package showing exactly what Ciampa has done to remind the universe. That would drive home his point further.
    Last edited by Powder; 2 Weeks Ago at 07:39 AM.

  35. #635
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    5,044
    I don't think those are the same thing (or at least the first two aren't - the Bryan example is a lot closer and fits quite well).

    For me, it's closer to something like the Terry Funk turn on Ric Flair. Maybe Terry Funk should be considered a contender. Maybe Terry Funk has a point. But you damn sure don't attack the champion after the match and nearly cripple him just because you feel slighted.

    I'm trying to remember the last time I think this was done well in WWE. Owen wanting to get out of Bret's shadow, but going about it in completely the wrong way springs to mind. If you want to go back still further you've got things like 'well, y'know, Andre never did get his title match....' but that's a little different because you've got Iago Heenan in the equation there. Actually, maybe there's an element of this in Bret's 1997 run, too.

    There probably are more recent examples but it seems as if it was a thing they did better at some points in the past.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  36. #636
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,869
    It's very different when the message is 'I'm better than you, the fans' as it was for Angle, Punk, and Bryan, than when it's 'you, the person these fans cheer, are a bad person and here are all the reasons why you're a bad person'. Especially when it's the case that all of those reasons are perfectly...well, reasonable.

    So I think it's not something that's easy to convey and to get the kind of reaction they want - you probably end up with both guys getting a bit more of a tweener reaction. Which would be a pretty unique situation, admittedly.

    I thought the Gargano sit down with Mauro from the week before was perfect, by the way.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •