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Thread: NXT

  1. #1
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    NXT

    Thought it was time everyone's favourite indy fed got a place for some discussion.

    Just saw the main event 6 man tag match between The Undisputed Era & Oney Lorcan, Danny Birch and Pete Dunne. Such a gritty awesome match, had a very raw and realistic feel to it. I think the biggest spot was Oney kind of flipping himself over the ropes onto Strong and Cole but there were still lots of moments where there were a lot of bodies in motion without it feeling set up. Really cool match.

    Right now I really like the NXT roster too, it feels a bit more like an actual developmental territory that has had to make the most out of what they have after the bigger shows have cherry picked the cream of the talent.



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  2. #2
    The Brain
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    I admit I only really watch the Takeovers most of the time, but it's good to hear they're doing well. The six guys you mentioned are all well established indy talent with many years under their belts so I'm still not sure they are particularly developmental, but they do have a few homegrown success stories, with Velveteen Dream being the most obvious right now.

  3. #3
    I was thinking about current homegrown talent on NXT last night. Other than Dream, who did have a tiny amount of experience, Lars Sullivan is the only one I can think of currently in a top position. A few tag teams are homegrown guys but they aren't very successful (Heavy Machinery, the now broken-up Sabatelli and Moss, Street Profits).
    Last edited by comfortablynumb; 05-17-2018 at 11:20 AM.

  4. #4
    The Brain
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    I think Bianca Belair will also be on that list, if she's not already, but yeah it's pretty sparse. Almost entirely already-developed guys cherry picked from other promotions. Doesn't make it less fun, just not very developmental.

  5. #5
    I had no idea she was homegrown. She has a lot of potential. For some reason I just figured the hair thing was something she did on the indies that made her a name.

  6. #6
    The Brain
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    I was surprised too but she's never had a match outside the WWE. She seems like a hell of a natural talent, to be this good with less than 100 total matches under your belt is very impressive.

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    I think what WWE performance center shows is that if you have the natural ability, it will come out quickly but if you're just a guy who doesn't have that personality or drive, its not gonna just show up and the more you're in that system, the less you'll experience new ways of doing things.

    Like I think Juice Robinson is really good now but as CJ Parker he had peaked as a character.. he wasn't that good and knew if he stayed there, it would have only gotten worse.

    Don't think EC3 would become the performer he is without going elsewhere.

    Wish more talents realized that before they became damaged goods
    Last edited by LK3185; 05-17-2018 at 05:28 PM.

  8. #8
    The Brain
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    For sure, but I'm sure it's also tough as hell to walk away from that guaranteed WWE paycheck with no guarantee you'll get to come back or succeed elsewhere. Much respect to those who take the risk.

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    More people have to bet on themselves cause really once WWE defines a role for you, its hard to overcome. If that's the role you want, great.. but if not..

  10. #10
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Yeah, the fact so many big indy names have gone to the wwe shows the upside of working for the biggest wrestling organisations in the world.

    To my original point about them feeling like they are made up of people left after the bigger shows cherry picked the talent. To me even though guys like Birch, Lorcon, the Undisputed Era, Gargano, Ciampa and even Black can get it done and had big names outside the wwe, I don't feel like they have the natural presence of a Samoa Joe, Shinsuke Nakamura, Finn Balor or Bobby Roode (to name a few recent guys). There is something rougher and b-grade about it all that I like.



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  11. #11
    Senior Member 205 Clive's Avatar
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    Ok guys. Hot topic time.

    Kona Reeves. Discuss!
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  12. #12
    The Brain
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    I haven't seen him wrestle but I've seen the gimmick. Haven't heard very good things but obviously I'd like to see more for myself. What's your take on the guy, Clive?

  13. #13
    Senior Member 205 Clive's Avatar
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    Well, it's a double edged sword.

    On one hand, his gimmick stinks to high heaven. He reminds me of a coked up low-level boss you defeat in GTA: Vice City. Or a loser in Scarface or something. His wrestling is nothing to write home about. At all, really.

    On the other hand, there has been a notable in provoke men in his 2 TV appearances so far; something I hope genuine haters take into account. And as jarring as his gimmick is, he his the vitriol and bile of the ever reliable Full Sail University crowd united against him. Bad wrestler or not, that nuclear heat can work wonders for characters (look at how successful and frequently utilised Elias had become on main roster).

    So if Reeves owns the gimmick (like he showed signs of second time around), then his wrestling prowess won't matter if he becomes a genuine mid-card heat magnet.
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  14. #14
    The Brain
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    Interesting... I remember Bo Dallas was an amazing heat magnet too, so I wonder if it will translate when he gets called up (assuming he does with the gimmick).

  15. #15
    Senior Member 205 Clive's Avatar
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    Yes Dallas had some crazy heat. Sadly it didn't work out so well for him on the main roster. There is a different mindset between the Full Sail crowd and the more mainstream crowd.
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  16. #16
    Senior Member 205 Clive's Avatar
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    Another strong offering from NXT TV last night. Points to take it from it for me are:

    - Dream and Ricochet is already looking like a money feud

    - Although it was awkwardly executed, I'm over the moon to see Nikki Cross make her intentions known as far as Baszler is concerned

    - Unfortunately, with Lars Sullivan being Black's next challenger, the NXT Men's title picture is low down the totem pole of what's hot in NXT right now. That's a real shame. I'm sure Lars will be a success, but this feud doesn't feel right for me.
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  17. #17
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    I think Bo could have gotten over more than he did on the main roster, but there was no real effort behind his gimmick. They just replanted it wholesale without doing any of the legwork they did in NXT that made it work. Ah well.

    Is it bad that I hope Lars annihilates Black and wins the title?

  18. #18
    That's a common theme for most NXT stars and sometimes I think the main roster should repeat NXT storylines. All of the legwork on character is done in NXT, not the main roster.

    If Bayley and Sasha repeated their NXT program (featuring a MOTY candidate) on the main roster, their characters would be so much different right now and Bayley would probably be that female John Cena.

  19. #19
    As it should be. Macho Mourn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    I think Bo could have gotten over more than he did on the main roster, but there was no real effort behind his gimmick. They just replanted it wholesale without doing any of the legwork they did in NXT that made it work. Ah well.

    Is it bad that I hope Lars annihilates Black and wins the title?
    Only if it leads to a promotion for Black.

    “Stoop to your own level. Your nature. Trust yourself. And most importantly... You have to learn what laws are really laws and not… Oppression."

  20. #20
    The Brain
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    If you say so! I'm not really a fan of the guy but I know many are.

    Quote Originally Posted by comfortablynumb View Post
    That's a common theme for most NXT stars and sometimes I think the main roster should repeat NXT storylines. All of the legwork on character is done in NXT, not the main roster.

    If Bayley and Sasha repeated their NXT program (featuring a MOTY candidate) on the main roster, their characters would be so much different right now and Bayley would probably be that female John Cena.
    Strongly agree with this, losing out on what makes the character special is one thing that makes me worry about each and every call up.

  21. #21
    Senior Member 205 Clive's Avatar
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    The wider WWE Universe losing out on a female John Cena is a big loss in my book. There are few (if any) other storylines in NXT's history where I was deeply emotionally invested in a storyline to the point where I was genuinely kayfabe ecstatic that Bayley won their Brooklyn match.

    Mizfan, why are you not a fan of Black? I'm not getting on at you, just curious.

    With Lars, I guess his title shot is okay because the rest of the big guns are busy with other programs. But this title match is probably the one I'm looking forward to the least on the card so far.

    I get Lars' gimmick is not bad, and it will probably appeal to Vince on the main roster, but I'm afraid he and Black will fail to mesh well on quite a big scale.
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  22. #22
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    He's just never clicked with me. I saw him plenty back when he was Tommy End and he always had this satanist (or whatever) thing in the background, but he never seemed to make any effort to do any character work. That's changed a bit with NXT but still I just feel like he doesn't have much personality to speak of. Putting that aside, all he really has is kicks. Tons and tons of kicks. I'm a kick guy, honestly, so on paper that should work for me, but something about his execution is off to me. I don't know if it's something about the kicks themselves, or just that sometimes he throws so many they seem to lose any real meaning, but they just never stood out to me. I get why some like him (to a point), but he's just not my cup of tea, so far anyway. I also think his thigh tattoo looks stupid.

    A guy like Lars is more up my alley, because (at least from what I've seen) he really knows how to give off a monstrous aura and work that character into his matches. I actually think on paper there's a great opportunity to tell a world class story with this match up. Lars should be able to eat a LOT of kicks and keep coming, so to see Black pushed up against the wall, not exactly panicked but desperate to either chop through the monster's massive health bar or find a different tactic to win could be a fantastic bit of psychology if they pull it off right.

  23. #23
    Senior Member 205 Clive's Avatar
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    I actually had the same reservations about Black upon his NXT debut. All those kicks on a wiry frame seemed a touch one dimensional. But I'm very much on board with him now, for two reasons.

    1) I think the Velveteen Dream program really helped Black come out his shell. The impact of that storyline and benefit to character was reciprocal in my opinion.

    2) I think it was Takeover Brooklyn 3(?). Black had a love band play his entrance and he walked through the band. His music is chaos. The band headbanging was chaos. But Black seemed unphased by it all and showed no reaction. He seems at home in such a world and it was such a striking visual that it blew me away.

    As for Lars, I see where you're coming from for sure. He does have those traits you mention and I believe Vince will lap it up. Maybe that will be the story for the match, where Black tries to deplete Lars' health bar but it's taking a long time. However even with this fresh approach to the story lg the match, it's still low down my list of excitement in this card.
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  24. #24
    The Brain
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    I will say, the best thing Black's been involved with (to me) is when Oliver shipped him together with Dream for DOA.

    Haha, I can get behind the idea that WWE has found a way to turn his lack of personality into some kind of cool iceman, like Dean Malenko but evil(ish).

  25. #25
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    So. Did anyone see that video package for Dream vs Ricochet? My my my, what a showcase this match has become. Easily surpasses Gargano Ciampa in terms of personal anticipation.
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  26. #26
    That opening tag match was decent but needed more time. Just as it was starting to heat up, it ended.

    Dream with the Hogan-themed gear. He’s got character work down. Dream’s gear is kind of a nod to Prince Puna too I just noticed.
    Last edited by comfortablynumb; 06-16-2018 at 08:38 PM.

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    Best tag match I've seen live and a great second match, too!

  28. #28
    The handcuffed guy doesn’t win very often. Will they go Hell in a Cell for Summerslam weekend?

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    I want 3 Stages of Hell.

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    I really liked Ciampa/Gargano but hated how the referee just happened to disappear towards the end especially after Ciampa was taken off the stretcher. it took me out of the whole thing quite a bit.

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    Did they not catch Gargano punching him on camera?

    I want 3 Stages of Hell.
    Last edited by XanMan; 06-16-2018 at 11:50 PM.

  32. #32
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    Well, damn, that was a solid show.

    The tag team match was great. I'm becoming a huge fan of The Undisputed Era. Lorcan and Burch were also tremendous - I hadn't really seen anything special about them but they brought it tonight.

    Ricochet is proving to be transitioning very well in the WWE umbrella and I hope it continues. Also, I will be very disappointed if Velveteen Dream isn't NXT Champion at or before next Wrestlemania weekend. It's amazing how someone so young and relatively inexperienced has just about everything click so early in their career. Such a great character.

    From the time I saw Shayna Baszler in a tiny Stardom show a year and a half ago, I felt she was a great talent, and I'm really happy she's been given the role she has in NXT right now, and she still is improving rapidly. I have a feeling she's far from her ceiling, and I look forward to seeing that progression. Not sure what Nikki Cross has in store for her future. Hopefully she'll be tagged along with Sanity when they debut on the main roster. I worry she'll be shoved aside anywhere else on her own.

    It might be an unpopular opinion, but I don't see what they hype is for Aleister Black. He has a good look, but I just can't figure out what makes him stand out in the ring. Maybe I haven't seen enough of him or something, I don't know. It's weird that the NXT Championship match was the one I enjoyed the least in this card. That just doesn't feel right.

    That main event was off the charts. Those guys had some of the most painful looking bumps I've ever seen, mixed with some amazing storytelling and keeping the door open to even more craziness in the future. I can't even fathom where they'll go from here. The 3 Stages of Hell seems to be the only viable option here given their last few encounters. They did show the ref taking a bump, but I do agree with LK above. It felt weird that Ciampa was tapping multiple times only to have the guys in suits pull Gargano off, and then conveniently the ref was up and ready to make the count after the DDT on the wooden boards. It was probably the only blemish on that match to me, but nothing too bad. It was still a great match and I can't wait to see where this goes.

    The WWE needs to stop putting these Takeover shows the night before their main roster shows. I have no idea how I'll be able to fully enjoy Money In The Bank tomorrow after this show.

  33. #33
    See, part of me feels the same about the main. But then the other part of me didn’t like it cause it really does push the limit of belief and felt parts of it were overkill and I feel that ruined it. You go through that battle and have 6 superkicks delivered to you in a row and yet you’re up making the pin a minute later. I’m sorry, but that’s too unbelievable for me

  34. #34
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Dream & Ricochet was quite something. I haven't seen much of Ricochet outside of the WWE but he seems to fit in with the modern style that has evolved. Dream is a star in the making, I can't work out if I'm more hyped for him or Pete Dunne but I do know that the future looks bright with those two kicking around. His commitment to his character and the story of the match was very cool and I like that he isn't afraid to lean into the darker, more narcissistic parts of his character. Personally I don't mind if he doesn't end up with the NXT Championship, I'd be happy to see him as the North American Champion. He has years and years ahead of him so steady as she goes for me.

    Was interesting to see Dream wearing Hogan stuff, perhaps yet another sign the WWE is paving the way for the Hulkster's return to the universe.

    The main event was truly uncomfortable viewing towards the end, a great tale of when revenge goes too far. Some of the spots were insane. The commentary team said the production boxes must have been 15 feet up, I don't think it was quite that high but even 9-10 feet onto concrete with only a table to break your fall is sick.

    To Heisenberg's point I think that there was nothing here that pushes things further than anything else we have seen before. Hell last match they did a powerbomb to the concrete a move that should probably end someone's career as a middle of the match spot.



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  35. #35
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    Live in the arena, the ref spots made sense. After Gargano was dragged away from the ring, the referee got up and started walking down the ramp. He glanced and saw the officials had Johnny in hand, so continued to the ring to check on the condition of Ciampa. Killer rolled up and was able to reposition the cuffs by going through his legs because of the length of the chain. They did a great job of distracting from that area of the ring; I forgot the wood was exposed until I heard the thud. Shocking moment.

  36. #36
    TakeOver was pretty solid. I dug the Hogan tribute by Dream. Although the Women's Title match was underwhelming I liked the angle of Bazler retreating from Cross. The Street Fight was great. Gargano losing it after discovering his ring was gone was ace as was Ciampa coming back for the surprise win.

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  37. #37
    I finally got around to watching a Takeover event last night, and damn it was solid. Sold "A" show. Match of the night was the street fight for sure. Better wrestling and storytelling than WWE. Going to have to make it a point to watch more NXT!

  38. #38
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    I really loved that Takeover show. The women's title match was the shits as I expected, and Lars (as much of a fan of his as I am) is nowhere near ready for that position, but overall it was a really good show. I actually couldn't believe that the main event was a WWE production at times given how liberally they were dishing out head shots with that trashcan lid.

    I find it funny that Ciampa can nail Gargano in the dome with a trashcan lid as he's coming over the top, and can give those big running knees to the temple with the trashcan lid assist, but these two would be suspended, if not fired, for a properly protected chair shot.

    I loved the finish, but I didn't. I loved that it came out of nowhere with sort of a surprise win for Ciampa, I loved the brutality of that final DDT, but the traditionalist in me hates pulling apart the mat and showing people the underneath -- there's a reason that the magician doesn't show off the wires for his trick. However, a nice, safe, protected chair shot to the head that Gargano could sell like death (and we haven't seen a head shot on WWE TV since Triple H vs Taker) would have had, in my opinion, an even more brutal and sick feeling at the end. Especially if the announcers had sold it like he'd taken it all too far they'd done a 30 or 60 day suspension angle with Ciampa afterward which, if announced today, would conveniently be over exactly the date for Takeover.

    The storytelling in that match, though! Whomever laid it out is a genius. Introducing the handcuffs but having Gargano avoid them early on. Exposing the wood at about the half way point. The call back to a year ago with the LED board. Even the callback to their last match with Ciampa not hesitating for a millisecond to gouge Gargano with the crutch, really showing off how different the two are.

    Everything that they teased was paid off later, and the whole thing was masterfully done.

    Time for some speculation! Is NXT getting their first Hell in a Cell for Gargano-Ciampa III in Brooklyn?

  39. #39
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    Agree with you about the Chairshots, Coach. Protected, it would be way safer.

    Also though i don't mind the magic being exposed, with the boards cause in my mind, it only enhances what these guys do putting their bodies on the line. Although I don't want it to be overdone.

  40. #40
    Yeah I’m not sure it’s exposing anything by showing the mat is boards covered with a cushion and a canvas. What else would it be?

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