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Thread: NXT

  1. #281
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    Mike and Rachel went to work for a victim focussed free legal care firm in Seattle, I think.

    They've announced that episode one of NXT Live will have Strong Vs Dream for the NA Title on it, so I imagine this is the moment that we get the whole UE draped in gold, which immediately gives you a statement ending to the first live show. How long they can keep that kind of hook going will be key, but the first few weeks will presumably be jammed full of major matches and storyline twists. Plus, with the draft coming up whenever Smackdown goes live, I wouldn't be surprised to see that be when they add a new face or three to get a little bit of a further momentum bump.

    Maybe a Survivor Series match, either one with the UE against a Smackdown or/and Raw side (have they ever done a three way Survivor Series bout?) as well, just to heighten the profile.

  2. #282
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    I'd imagine that the draft sees one major superstar move to NXT. I'm not sure who that would be, but my guess is someone who's not particularly enamored with their positioning in the company but comes with name value to those people trying to pick between AEW and NXT and already resides in Florida. My immediate guess is Nakamura, but a long shot could be someone like Strowman who needs a little rehabbing in an environment where they can spend a week planning stunts for him to perform.

  3. #283
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    Rusev and Lana wouldn't be a bad 'get' for NXT - although probably not carrying that name value that you're saying, Coach.

    To just double back a step or two - last week's episode of NXT was superb. Myles vs Cole put on a great 15 minute main event, Breezango vs 3.0 was great (and Breezango earned two points, so they now only need one more to challenge the Undisputed Era), Dream beat Kona Reeves but more importantly Strong set a settee on fire, and Bianca Belair continued to improve against an also improving Taynara Conti.

    There's something about Belair, and I can't put my finger on it. I wish it wouldn't be passe if she did a 'Hulk Up' kind of thing, because she has these excellent power moves that serve her well to end out a match, but otherwise she seems to have a struggle in the opening stages. A big beatdown and then a hulk up would really suit her. I suppose the alternative is her trucking through people like a female Goldberg.

  4. #284
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    NXT was solid this week, though I wouldn't say superb. Like in so many online discussions, I have the unpopular opinion, but Adam Cole doesn't do much for me. The UE isn't bad altogether, and they need a leader, and Cole does a solid job of that. In that role, Cole might be perfect. But in the ring... I'm more and more believing modern wrestling is passing me by, if that's what is meant to be great. The story of rookie Myles challenging the champ was terrific, but the match was meh. Maybe I just don't like an obvious heel playing for babyface reactions.

    My fave part of this story was the interview with Myles on his way to the arena, where Keith Lee was near him. That seemed like great foreshadowing, though what I expected from it did not occur. We'll see if there's more to it.

    Bianca is still a work in progress, but her potential is near limitless. Agreed with her power moveset being her bread and butter. Like any complete wrestling rookie who started in the PC, she's still learning how to put a match together, and that's her biggest weakness. Taynara impressed me the most in this match, and I'm thinking she might have a very Alexa Bliss type future, in that in NXT she'll be a midcarder while exploring her skills, but once she gets to the main roster, the rocket will be strapped to her.

    Breezango are a standard main roster midcard tag team, so I hope they get a chance to have longer matches in NXT. I don't know if they can ever deliver something like DIY vs Revival, but they haven't shown the ability to get there in the 4-5 minute TV matches we've seen so far. I find the most dependable match on any Takeover is the tag title match, and Breezango haven't displayed anything that would keep that going. I feel like the best they can offer is a 3 star match, even with Fish/O'Reilly, who are one of the best tag teams in all of WWE of the last 10 years.

    With the likely draft and USA promotion, one story I would like to see is a veteran entering the tag division with a rookie from NXT. In ROH, Silas Young is taking Josh Woods under his wing, and in a way Jay Lethal is doing that with Jonathan Gresham. There are many versions in wrestling history of that, but the NXT to main roster dynamic is something I don't think has been capitalized on enough. Obviously, the tag division isn't top priority, but it doesn't need to be Roman Reigns going this route. Any singles guy with clout can make this work.
    Last edited by PEN15v2; 09-09-2019 at 03:18 PM.

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    NXT was solid this week, though I wouldn't say superb. Like in so many online discussions, I have the unpopular opinion, but Adam Cole doesn't do much for me. The UE isn't bad altogether, and they need a leader, and Cole does a solid job of that. In that role, Cole might be perfect. But in the ring... I'm more and more believing modern wrestling is passing me by, if that's what is meant to be great. The story of rookie Myles challenging the champ was terrific, but the match was meh. Maybe I just don't like an obvious heel playing for babyface reactions.
    I'm with you on that. Cole vs Gargano at Takeover 25 I hated, but Meltzer gave it five and a quarter stars. They were hitting one another with shit that should have murdered the other guy and they kept kicking out. A Destroyer on the floor wasn't a finish.

    I don't at all enjoy the style of wrestling where you hit the guy with everything in the book and they keep kicking out but your finish still gets the job done in the end.

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    I'm with you on that. Cole vs Gargano at Takeover 25 I hated, but Meltzer gave it five and a quarter stars. They were hitting one another with shit that should have murdered the other guy and they kept kicking out. A Destroyer on the floor wasn't a finish.

    I don't at all enjoy the style of wrestling where you hit the guy with everything in the book and they keep kicking out but your finish still gets the job done in the end.
    Yeah. In a tag match, it doesn't bother me near as much, but that's because the wrestlers aren't kicking out, but rather having the count stopped by the partner breaking it up somehow. That, I can get into. But it's REALLY hard to take seriously when these spots to the head get kicked out of, while some others are winning matches with a slam?

  7. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    My fave part of this story was the interview with Myles on his way to the arena, where Keith Lee was near him. That seemed like great foreshadowing, though what I expected from it did not occur. We'll see if there's more to it.
    YES! I was convinced Myles would have the win over Cole in the bag, then Keith would come down and cost Myles the title at the end, either aligning with UE as their muscle, or just simply because he was jealous that Myles almost did immediately what Lee hasn't yet. Though that thought made me sad, cause it would mean Keith Lee would drop 3 straight matches. It seems like NXT doesn't appreciate that man as much as they should. He deserves a push imo. I could see him work on the main roster.


  8. #288
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    I do think they're setting up for Lee vs Myles, which could be excellent. The little backstage bit following NXT kind of hinted towards that too, and if they're going to slowly burn this first into a firendship and subsequently into a turn for Lee on Myles, I'm all for it.

    As far as the Cole vs Myles match goes - I felt that it didn't really sink into being that 'Adam Cole' type of match, which I don't like, and for that I really appreciated it. Whether because it was a TV match rather than a Takeover one I don't know, but it felt like Cole gave enough to Myles to nod towards him being the future, whilst not looking to weak as a champion against someone who is effectively a rookie.

    I'd really like to see Cole get a match against someone who can't do that kind of long, overdramatic, mutliple nearfalls, risk taking etc match - Gargano kind of felt like the perfect opponent for that, and if you like that stuff cool. But for me, I'd kind of rather see him adapt to working with someone like Dream, who doesn't have that kind of natural resilience built into his arsenal and also works much more of a storytelling bout than Cole has perhaps done to date.

  9. #289
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    Yeah I hope they are slow burning a Lee vs Myles feud. It would be entertaining, despite me not liking them having everyone going over Keith Lee atm. As much as I think Myles is a very solid in-ring performer, his gimmick needs a lot of work though- shooting pretend 3 pointers and smiling a lot isn't much to work with.

    I always associate the spot fest thing to Gargano. Cole does it too, but not as egregiously. That style is wearing me thin though. Sad thing is, live fans eat it up, so it isn't gonna die off anytime soon.

    I think Oli is spot on about Dream losing the NA Strap to Roddie at the first USA Network episode. But then where does that put Dream? Do they finally push him towards the NXT title? I do think he could have some great matches with Cole, but who knows. I'd like to see Cole face a hoss as well.


  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kleckamania View Post
    YES! I was convinced Myles would have the win over Cole in the bag, then Keith would come down and cost Myles the title at the end, either aligning with UE as their muscle, or just simply because he was jealous that Myles almost did immediately what Lee hasn't yet. Though that thought made me sad, cause it would mean Keith Lee would drop 3 straight matches. It seems like NXT doesn't appreciate that man as much as they should. He deserves a push imo. I could see him work on the main roster.
    I don't think Keith Lee is underappreciated at all. He's been getting special spotlights, and is essentially one win away from being #1 contender to the NXT title. He lost to Dijak, who is equally as impressive (though I think Lee has more potential in WWE due to his charisma), but other than that, he's well established and credible. His inclusion with the Jordan Myles angle is proof enough to show they have plans for him. WWE main roster might have booked that segment at random and never followed it up, but NXT will. I'm just not sure it'll go since he didn't get involved in the match or aftermath.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    I do think they're setting up for Lee vs Myles, which could be excellent. The little backstage bit following NXT kind of hinted towards that too, and if they're going to slowly burn this first into a firendship and subsequently into a turn for Lee on Myles, I'm all for it.

    As far as the Cole vs Myles match goes - I felt that it didn't really sink into being that 'Adam Cole' type of match, which I don't like, and for that I really appreciated it. Whether because it was a TV match rather than a Takeover one I don't know, but it felt like Cole gave enough to Myles to nod towards him being the future, whilst not looking to weak as a champion against someone who is effectively a rookie.

    I'd really like to see Cole get a match against someone who can't do that kind of long, overdramatic, mutliple nearfalls, risk taking etc match - Gargano kind of felt like the perfect opponent for that, and if you like that stuff cool. But for me, I'd kind of rather see him adapt to working with someone like Dream, who doesn't have that kind of natural resilience built into his arsenal and also works much more of a storytelling bout than Cole has perhaps done to date.
    Maybe I paid less attention to the match since it was Cole, but it seemed typical to me. I do like the idea of Cole vs a hoss (Dijak or Keith Lee would be awesome) or vs anyone who can work a match like you suggested would fit the bill.

  11. #291
    This second hour of NXT on the WWE Network is stacked. Walter and Imperium face off with Kushida and still have Riddle/Dain.

  12. #292
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    While HHH said not much was gonna change, I definitely noticed a difference in the show.

    First, Mauro might have been at his worst, reaching Matt Striker levels of annoying pop culture references at the booth.

    The wrestling content was definitely higher. The bad side of this was less of the backstage segments. I enjoyed how NXT took advantage of the performance center to tape promos, or use security footage, or use the workout area to advance stories. The massive brawl to end the WWE Network portion was odd. I get that they were likely trying to introduce all the NXT stars to new viewers, but how many new viewers would there be on the WWE Network portion? I would think something like that might have been best for Oct 2, but it wasn't terrible. It was convoluted and silly, but fun. I think it helps because I knew the characters, but if AEW did something like this, I doubt it would connect with me.

    The rumored mix of multiple brands seems to be accurate, as a Cruiserweight title contenders match was booked, and the NXT UK champ showed up with his stable (which shocked me, as he's been vocal about not wanting to relocate to the US, so I wouldn't expect too many NXT appearances for Imperium/WALTER).

    One thing that hasn't changed, despite going from taped to live, was how they book matches in advance. Now, setting the NXT Women's title match to be against the AEW debut could be a one time thing, and maybe it'll go back to being standard live WWE booking of one week at a time. But if they keep it up, I'll be very happy.

    But as for wrestling, I loved the variety. I just thought it was missing some tag team wrestling, especially with the Street Profits having been a regular part of Raw for a couple of months. But, we got women in a feature near main event match in arguably the match of the night (but there were 2 more matches to compete for that), we got women in a match to establish fresh faces (semi-squash, and Aliyah is still somehow green as grass), a decent brawl main event (though it was a letdown after some of the other content we got), a CW contenders match that exceeded my expectations, a tremendous NA title match, a solid establishing match for Dunne...etc. They got a LOT accomplished on this show, and the energy was furious without it feeling like it was nonsense (until the end). They hyped a big match for next week too.


    I was very impressed. BUT, it's also very possible they threw everything into the first show, and it'll ease off by the end of October and end up being an average NXT show. Which isn't bad in any way, but usually isn't exciting. NXT's ability was to keep you interested in so much of the roster and stories, delivering a decent in-ring wrestling product with some true highlights once in a while, and building to amazing Takeovers. This was very different, while still getting all that in, but better in a couple of ways.


    Will this beat AEW in the ratings? I believe so, but it's impossible to say if this is the show that NXT will stick with. If they keep this up, I think it should win more often than lose. But if this was just a packed show to kick things off, but the plan is for it to slow down over time... then AEW have a fair chance to take the lead.

  13. #293
    It definitely felt like they were pulling out all the stops for this show. I enjoyed that cruiserweight match too. Lorcan can be bland outside the ring but I’ve always enjoyed his work in it.

    While watching the brawl I couldn’t help but think Imperium may be involved in War Games even though they are NXT UK. They’d definitely need to make more appearances to build a story but you never know, maybe they worked out an extended stay for Walter for the fall.
    Last edited by comfortablynumb; 09-18-2019 at 11:39 PM.

  14. #294
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    Oh shit, Imperium vs KUSHIDA & BSS in WarGames? Yeah, I'm good with that if it happens.

    I liked the show as a whole - as Pen says, I'd have liked a bit more backstage stuff going on to crown it off and make it still feel like the original NXT - this kind of felt like the first live special for me, structurally, as they did a big match then a short match and repeated the pattern. That works just fine, but I would like to see a big more of the NXT character in the show itself.

    The only thing I really hated, and hadn't prepared myself for, was ad breaks. Hadn't really factored those into my thinking around the show being live on broadcast TV now. It's not a big thing, but I've always disliked mid-match advert breaks, and having watched NXT for so long without them it felt like a really odd thing to see - the first one during the women's bout was especially jarring as I was just not expecting it.

    It's probably going to need a bit of time to really grease it's wheels when it comes to a weekly show, and for sure they can't deliver as many big, built up matches week on week - but I thought it stood as a pretty good introduction to the brand.

  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    First, Mauro might have been at his worst, reaching Matt Striker levels of annoying pop culture references at the booth.
    I cannot echo this loud enough. At one point he piled on three, one after the other, for Lio Rush. If they're going against Jim Ross with a guy spewing pop culture references at a thousand miles per hour, eeesh.

    I thought it was a pretty good show. I didn't love the concept of the jabroni squad brawl causing a street fight to be called off, though. For a match with presumably no disqualifications, even if things get out of hand and the referee completely loses control, it shouldn't be called off. They booked a gimmick match to try and draw, with no intention of paying off the gimmick. It felt lame to me.

    I was a little surprised by the lack of surprises, actually. Walter was a nice touch but like...I guess I just expected more? This was a great NXT 101 with some good matches and an opportunity to establish several people. And maybe that's the plan for the first two week where they only have an hour on USA, and week three head-to-head with AEW they'll pull out all the stops?

    Oh well, Arturo Ruas was my favourite part of that Evolve show that they aired, and he and Pete Dunn was all I needed to call this a good show in terms of quality...for my Network audio was several seconds out of sync so the show itself was almost unwatchable.

  16. #296
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    Do they need to as you say pull out all the stops? I mean, if they're going for being alternative to AEW and their own product, having Cena or a guy not really associate with NXT doesn't project that message. its a ratings stunt. Which is fine but say they do well without it, you're not going to do better than your other, more important brands regardless. Also have a chance of alienating viewers by having people not connected to the brand on the show.

    As a one time thing, sure but not something that is common.

  17. #297
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    I understand the "pull out all the stops" more as do everything NXT can do. I think they were close to that for the debut. Keep in mind we didn't see much of the NXT champ, tag champs, or the women's champ. They all appeared, but didn't get a mic or get in the ring. There was no Gargano, Ciampa, Jordan Myles, any tag team wrestling, William Regal, Rhea Ripley...etc. So there are more stops to pull for Oct without playing any main roster cards.

  18. #298
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    I mean this isn't just about being an alternative to AEW; if it were WWE wouldn't have rushed to get NXT on USA as quick as they did. They want to compete and beat them and part of that is beating them in the ratings. And I would guess part of that would involve, at some point, using bigger names in a "ratings stunt" as you call it.

    Now would I do it all the time? Absolutely not. But I think we need to keep in mind here that the gulf between AEW and NXT isn't vast. The fact of the matter is that NXT isn't that much more well known outside the hardcore fan base than AEW is. They have an advantage of being on a big station (then again AEW is on one too) and having WWE branding but that's it. I don't believe the casual audience really exists all that much even more but the ones who do aren't going to know who the Undisputed Era, Velveteen Dream, Johnny Gargano, Tomasso Ciampa (when he returns), WALTER and his dudes, Candice LeRae, Io Shirai, Keith Lee and so on are. Those are big names to us but they aren't big names beyond that, and certainly aren't on the levels of Chris Jericho and Jon Moxley, who are easily the biggest stars and draws between both sides. And from what I've heard, one of the few criticisms I've noticed about last night's show (and a similar one I've heard for AEW) is that they didn't really do a good job explaining everyone's back story and assumed everyone watching already knew it. There is definitely going to be a challenge to make people in NXT well known stars out of the gate; provided nothing drastically changes I think they'll do so, but it will be a process, much like it will be for AEW as well. And I don't think using a big name now and then would necessarily hurt that process, especially since you know WWE will want to beat AEW.

    It's kind of funny because when you think about it, NXT and AEW are basically the same thing. They're both trying to appeal to the hardcore wrestling fan, their rosters feature a lot of strong talent but few stars and they're both going to be working to build a new audience that isn't familiar with them. They're practically mirrors of each other, which I guess makes it all the more fitting that they're competitors.


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    They are definitely 2 similar products aimed for a similar fanbase. But they are still very different, and this is great. Whichever one is your choice, it seems like Wednesday nights are turning into a more action based wrestling night. I still prefer the stories on Monday's and Tues/Fridays, with the wider scope, but NXT has been such an amazing promotion to watch grow and innovate, and expand to what it is today. And AEW has a chance to follow suit.

    That said, Cult. I think you're REALLY understating or underrating the promotion that being a brand of WWE on USA will benefit NXT, and how much of an advantage that is. That gulf is wider than you realize.

  20. #300
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    Well we'll find out, potentially as soon as this afternoon (I'm not sure when the ratings come in) if that is indeed the case.

    It's certainly an advantage, don't get me wrong. But we need to remember here that NXT has largely been a WWE Network entity, not a TV mainstay the way RAW and Smackdown are. At last check the WWE Network has a little over 1.5 million subscribers; based on the RAW and Smackdown numbers from this week that's still half a million to almost 750K fewer people than watch RAW and Smackdown, and that's if we assume every WWE Network subscriber is watching NXT. It's more likely the viewership is somewhere in the hundred thousands than in the million range. None of which is to say it's bad; it just means that NXT, as of right now, has a lot of really talented people who aren't going to be well known to the "casual" audience right away. Now does that matter? I don't know because, as I've stated before, I'm not sure there's even much of a casual audience left. I just know that it's unrealistic to think the top NXT guys and girls are going to come off as stars like some people on RAW and Smackdown are. They just don't have the same exposure and even with WWE's branding and marketing behind them, it just doesn't seem likely to me that you're getting a huge advantage there unless you just believe the WWE name will be enough.

    Again, we'll see. I have been wrong plenty before and I expect I will be wrong many times more in the future!


  21. #301
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    You're thinking US only, which I know is what most stats are based on. But NXT is an international brand on TV, including in Canada. It's WWE Network only in the US.

  22. #302
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    NXT on USA did 1,179 Million viewers

    Prime 18-49 demo was .43

    Not bad for them.

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    I won't pretend to know much about US ratings, and I really don't get involved with numbers for Raw or SD at all. The only time I can think of discussing numbers was with Cult 4-6 months ago about AEW's potential, and I'm sure he could tell it wasn't in my realm of knowledge.

    That said, those seem like good numbers. I think that can grow, but once AEW hits, I'm sure decent chunk will turn to TNT. I feel NXT will still "win the battle", but I really don't think it'll be a blow out, or by an amount that AEW/TNT will be concerned with. I saw someone suggest NXT would do 800k while AEW would do 500k. That seems to be reasonable, but again, I REALLY don't know much about US ratings.

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    I'm no expert but for a debut that's been promoted on your shows that do at least over 2mil every week from ratings alone (which not everyone is covered since its just a sample size but still) its pretty good. Will be drop off but I think somewhere just under a million NXT will settle at. I think AEW will be a little less but there's potential for a similar debut number.

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    Oh, for sure. It wouldn't shock me if AEW gets a higher rating for the debut. But as things move on, even by November/December, is where I think we'll see the viewership steady, and NXT will have the lead.

    But, I'm not exactly predicting these guesses. AEW might have a bunch of tricks up there sleeves that no one can predict. But, if they are continuing with the style of programming they've shown so far, with the promotion and roster they currently have... NXT will keep the advantage thanks to Raw and SD cross promotion

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    I think AEW has this unknown that is an advantage and disadvantage. We don't know exactly how the tv will go, the talent is unknown in a mainstream scale except for a few. People will tune into that first show and if AEW is smart, they will establish the characters, and then go to wrestling. Do something with videos.. I really don't think straight up matches will appeal to those that just watched NXT do that. Not saying you do skits or lead with 20 min promo, but put your characters out there that will attract the casual.

    If they play to the same type of audience, both the numbers will decline.

  27. #307
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    Those are great first night numbers on an unknown commodity, and it sounds like the show itself will have generated more in the future.


    I can't find it in On Demand for cable :/ much disappoint.

    I honestly think AEW will do better. And I think they will stay better for a bit. WWE is gonna show their colors when numbers lead to a need to tweak things.

    And AEW has a lot of word of mouth. Adults know this product is aimed at them. Lots of grown ups disenfranchsied with WWE. Their success shows other feds that that demographic is in need of being tapped.


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    I told Pen I would be wrong again!

    This is a GREAT number to me. I was expecting at best around what that previous one hour special got, so for this to get above 1 million is a very strong start. I think it honestly bodes well for both them and AEW, as it shows there is an audience out there (even if it's not quite what RAW or Smackdown's is) who will tune in to see great wrestling. I don't expect either will draw that number consistently but this is a good start for NXT and I think a good sign of things to come.

    As for the AEW debut, I think it'll beat NXT but I was thinking that anyway. For that week it will have the advantage over NXT because this is the very first show. It's like the first RAW, the first Nitro; it's a historic event, much like how Double or Nothing was. That will definitely get some eyeballs. How much they get after will be determined on what they do with that show, and I'd think they would have to have a show as good as the NXT one appears to be. I certainly hope it will be, as I will be at AEW's first show!


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    I hope they do a silly pull out all the stops show for that first night against AEW for funsies. Like, I hope they drag John Cena out of his Florida mansion to come and work a 15 minute sprint with Johnny Gargano or something.

    That said, they've already got Shayna vs Candice lined up for that show. Personally, I hope Shayna eats Candice's lunch (and then chokes Gargano out in the middle of the ring to send a message) but I can well imagine them doing a second title change in three weeks to make it 'unpredictable' and 'must watch' or whatever.

    I just wish they'd gone with Goth Io vs Shayna for the title.

  30. #310
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    Double post, sorry, but...

    https://mobile.twitter.com/NXTCiampa...rick-strong%2F

    Your favourite Blackheart looks ready to come and take what's rightfully his. Watch your back, Adam Cole, because he's going to rip the catchphrases out of your throat

  31. #311
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    Look we all think Johnny Gargano is a newb and that La Sombra and Tomasso Ciampa carried him to greatness (before he was then dragged down by Adam Cole, or as I call him, Finn Balor with long hair and a catchphrase), but I will hear no Candice slander. She's awesome, she's been deserving of this opportunity for Grodd only knows how long, and most importantly, I have her t-shirt from her PWG days! Would I, the coolest person in this forum since Pen hates the flips and mizfan decided to start his crusade against the Lucha Brothers teaming up, own the t-shirt of someone or something that wasn't cool? Yes...but that has nothing to do with this situation!


  32. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    I told Pen I would be wrong again!

    This is a GREAT number to me. I was expecting at best around what that previous one hour special got, so for this to get above 1 million is a very strong start. I think it honestly bodes well for both them and AEW, as it shows there is an audience out there (even if it's not quite what RAW or Smackdown's is) who will tune in to see great wrestling. I don't expect either will draw that number consistently but this is a good start for NXT and I think a good sign of things to come.

    As for the AEW debut, I think it'll beat NXT but I was thinking that anyway. For that week it will have the advantage over NXT because this is the very first show. It's like the first RAW, the first Nitro; it's a historic event, much like how Double or Nothing was. That will definitely get some eyeballs. How much they get after will be determined on what they do with that show, and I'd think they would have to have a show as good as the NXT one appears to be. I certainly hope it will be, as I will be at AEW's first show!
    So, like, what happen if/when both AEW and NXT are outdrawing Raw and Smackdown? Raw came back at an average of 2.3 million viewers. Give NXT and AEW six months of strong shows and one fewer hour, who's to say they can't average that or better?

  33. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    So, like, what happen if/when both AEW and NXT are outdrawing Raw and Smackdown? Raw came back at an average of 2.3 million viewers. Give NXT and AEW six months of strong shows and one fewer hour, who's to say they can't average that or better?
    I think we need to pump the breaks there a little bit Coach!

    Could this end up happening? Anything is possible...but the only way it's happening in six months is if RAW and Smackdown just absolutely crater and AEW and NXT are borderline perfect coming out of the gate. And even then I think it would be closer to a year before either could challenge. At the end of the day RAW and Smackdown are the established brands in the wrestling landscape and one of them will now be on Fox. I don't expect the ratings to rise that much on Fox (at least as much as some people in WWE seem to believe) but they will go up to some degree, and that plus the established nature of the shows will give them a cushion over an AEW and an NXT that are still new to this level of audience and who, outside of a few names, don't really have big stars. If all goes well with both, they establish themselves as must watch brands and RAW and Smackdown continue to be hit and miss like they've been since 2001, then maybe in a year you could see it. But it may take even longer than that.

    If that day comes I have no idea what will happen. I'd assume Vince would blow a gasket but NXT is a WWE brand so perhaps he wouldn't. I honestly think his reaction only becomes interesting if AEW does defeat NXT consistently out of the gate and then goes on to defeat RAW or Smackdown. And we're so far off from all those things that it feels wrong to bring it up.


  34. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    Double post, sorry, but...

    https://mobile.twitter.com/NXTCiampa...rick-strong%2F

    Your favourite Blackheart looks ready to come and take what's rightfully his. Watch your back, Adam Cole, because he's going to rip the catchphrases out of your throat
    Goldie is coming home soon!

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    If On the hypothetical, I think if AEW and NXT are beating Raw and Smackdown at any point it’s because they are doing something different than RAW or Smackdown and i assume that would mean more hard hitting wrestling, fast paced, less bad comedy etc

    I cant see either show beating the top brands in WWE doing what WWE does. Its gotta be different

    I dont think the NXT show was different enough but who knows
    Last edited by LK3185; 09-20-2019 at 02:45 PM.

  36. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    Look we all think Johnny Gargano is a newb and that La Sombra and Tomasso Ciampa carried him to greatness (before he was then dragged down by Adam Cole, or as I call him, Finn Balor with long hair and a catchphrase), but I will hear no Candice slander. She's awesome, she's been deserving of this opportunity for Grodd only knows how long, and most importantly, I have her t-shirt from her PWG days! Would I, the coolest person in this forum since Pen hates the flips and mizfan decided to start his crusade against the Lucha Brothers teaming up, own the t-shirt of someone or something that wasn't cool? Yes...but that has nothing to do with this situation!
    Huh?! Cult, have you been drinking from Steiner's chalice again? Candice is definitely deserving of being the next person that loses to Shayna Baszler, that we can agree on. She's got definite talent. But Cole is Balor with hair? Nobody is as bad as Finn Balor! I'm not necesarily a fan of Cole or Gargano, but I will openly admit they are very good in-ring talents. Gargano bordering great, but the false finishes will wind up defining him, and eventually mar him in wrestling history imo. Ciampa is the best of the lot, but he would be neutered on the main roster, so here's hoping he stays in NXT.


    The great news that it seems nobody has noticed? This past week's debut NXT episode is on the WWE Network!!! (Does this mean WWE will air all NXT episodes still on the Network a few days after they air? If so, why not current RAW and Smackdown episodes?) I'm about halfway through the episode now. Women's match was pretty good. Bianca looks better and better in-ring. Dream vs Roddie was awesome. Perfect interference to let Dream lose without losing face. I knew UE would interfere, but I am worried about how they book Dream going ahead. He has a genuinely great "gimmick/persona", and is so talented in the ring. Do they now push him towards Cole considering Cole cost him the NA Title? And if they do, and he loses, where does he go from there?

    As for AEW and NXT pushing bigger numbers than Smackdown and or RAW? Nope. Won't happen. I agree with Cult that they'd need to be perfect and the main products would need to fall of a cliff to even make it close, but even then it won't be enough. Both products would have to be doing something so wildly different from main roster WWE that it drew all sorts of eyes in to their products, like ECW was doing right before the Attitude Era kicked off. But then, of course, WWE would just follow suit to keep the pace.

    I could see both AEW and NXT pulling in solid 1.5's. I'd say 2 is the absolute ceiling imo. And that would be after a year of outstanding product.
    Last edited by Kleckamania; 09-23-2019 at 12:34 AM.


  37. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    Look we all think Johnny Gargano is a newb and that La Sombra and Tomasso Ciampa carried him to greatness (before he was then dragged down by Adam Cole, or as I call him, Finn Balor with long hair and a catchphrase), but I will hear no Candice slander. She's awesome, she's been deserving of this opportunity for Grodd only knows how long, and most importantly, I have her t-shirt from her PWG days! Would I, the coolest person in this forum since Pen hates the flips and mizfan decided to start his crusade against the Lucha Brothers teaming up, own the t-shirt of someone or something that wasn't cool? Yes...but that has nothing to do with this situation!
    Oh don't get me wrong - I like Candice a hell of a lot and think she definitely deserves the shot. I just love Shayna and want her to wreck everyone.

  38. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kleckamania View Post
    Huh?! Cult, have you been drinking from Steiner's chalice again? Candice is definitely deserving of being the next person that loses to Shayna Baszler, that we can agree on. She's got definite talent. But Cole is Balor with hair? Nobody is as bad as Finn Balor! I'm not necesarily a fan of Cole or Gargano, but I will openly admit they are very good in-ring talents. Gargano bordering great, but the false finishes will wind up defining him, and eventually mar him in wrestling history imo. Ciampa is the best of the lot, but he would be neutered on the main roster, so here's hoping he stays in NXT.


    The great news that it seems nobody has noticed? This past week's debut NXT episode is on the WWE Network!!! (Does this mean WWE will air all NXT episodes still on the Network a few days after they air? If so, why not current RAW and Smackdown episodes?) I'm about halfway through the episode now. Women's match was pretty good. Bianca looks better and better in-ring. Dream vs Roddie was awesome. Perfect interference to let Dream lose without losing face. I knew UE would interfere, but I am worried about how they book Dream going ahead. He has a genuinely great "gimmick/persona", and is so talented in the ring. Do they now push him towards Cole considering Cole cost him the NA Title? And if they do, and he loses, where does he go from there?

    As for AEW and NXT pushing bigger numbers than Smackdown and or RAW? Nope. Won't happen. I agree with Cult that they'd need to be perfect and the main products would need to fall of a cliff to even make it close, but even then it won't be enough. Both products would have to be doing something so wildly different from main roster WWE that it drew all sorts of eyes in to their products, like ECW was doing right before the Attitude Era kicked off. But then, of course, WWE would just follow suit to keep the pace.

    I could see both AEW and NXT pulling in solid 1.5's. I'd say 2 is the absolute ceiling imo. And that would be after a year of outstanding product.
    There is definitely an influx of younger talent that work the finisher overkill, insane false finish style of wrestling that borders on lunacy. Gargano and Cole have both been pretty obvious criminals of this issue.

    Cult's irrational hatred of certain talent (like Cole or Balor) is no different than many other people's irrational hatred. Not saying these people are perfect. In fact, I think a big issue that leads to this irrational hatred is these talents tend to be rather talented, but get overrated by others to the point of annoyance. My own example is Sami Zayn. He's a very talented guy in the ring and on the mic. But to me, he's midcarder for life due to his look and wrestling style. Yet, some claim him to be underutilized because he's not a former 23 time WWE Champion. Sometimes these things can cause pushback that becomes hatred. That's my theory on Cult hating Cole and Balor. Both are good, sometimes great, but aren't TEH AWESOMEZ that some fans believe.

  39. #319
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    The thing about Cole is that he has "it". Every promoter whom he's ever worked for has agreed with that. He's small, but athletic-looking enough to mix it up with the Seth Rollins or AJ Styles types (though I wonder how his style would translate to a Braun Strowman) and he's just got that cool guy charisma like Kevin Nash in the 90s.

  40. #320
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    Absolutely. Cole definitely has that intangible factor. It's a physical, natural charisma that is undeniable. Like him or not Adam Cole is gonna win a lot of titles up top.

    And Pen is right too. We all have our favorites. I just like to call out Iken on hating on WWE talent so much.


    So I finished NXTs first episode. Roddy vs Dream was the highlight of the night. It was also really nice to have HHH address fans biggest fears over going to cable in the first minute of the broadcast, that was an awesome touch. Lorcan vs Rush was also a decent match. I honestly think this first show could have been better. Certain matches seemed odd to have on the card, considering they involved talent that are just starting out, or not really in the top eschelon of wrestlers NXT has. Hopefully they play a balance out each week. Here's hoping in week 2 we see Shayna in a match. Kushida. Keith Lee. Continue the story of Myles. Put on some tag wrestling! Its often the best part of NXT imo.

    It stinks that they are dragging on this Dain vs Riddle feud in this way. Give them more than 6 minutes to work a damn match. The obligatory brawl was obligatory. I know feds feel like that has to happen, but idk, seems out of character in most cases.

    And I may have only seen one WALTER match to date, and a handful of Kushida's NJPW matches before NXT, but damn did I salivate when they teased a match. I've seen enough of both to know that match would be outrageously good. Sign me way up for that!


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