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  1. #41
    The Brain
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    Not surprising! What's the gist of it, Pete?

  2. #42
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    From what I read, it was something about encountering the Whills - an idea in GL's earliest conceptualisations, back when Star Wars was sub-titled From the Journal of the Whills or some-such.

    Rumours emerging today that Lucasfilm has called time on experimenting with unknown quantities in the directing chair and instead plugging for those proven in the field of big budget movie making. I'm also seeing that they've put a pause on the Star Wars Story spin-offs, potentially leaving the rumoured Boba Fett and Obi-Wan movies in limbo. Pumped as I was at the idea of seeing Ewan McGregor back in the robes, I have to say that the latter rumours are like music to my ears.

    The Wars universe is vast, and screen canon alone covers a period of 100 years. It's such a waste to just keep churning out cash-cows based on existing characters, rather than crafting something original and compelling.

  3. #43
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Agreed, I am not mad at all with them potentially broadening their horizon beyond what is already known. Hopefully with a bit of creative energy they can finish off this current series and put Star Wars films in a place where they can introduce new characters and settings and it will still draw a big enough crowd to justify the expense.

    There are so many great stories that I would love them to do a take on even if it changes some of the old legends cannon. The two I would most like to see are:
    - The Old Republic and the tales of the Mandalorian War and Jedi Civil War
    - Dath Bane and the implementation of the Rule of Two

    Both of them inform the galaxy we see at the start of the current cannon but tell their own stories full of compelling characters and conflicts.

  4. #44
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Anyone see the thing the other day when Chris McQuarrie was talking about the twilight zone and it's social commentary, Rian Johnson starting talking to him about it, a load of 'fans' (and I use the term incredibly loosely) started in an on the conversation, and McQuarrie finished by saying he'd have loved to have directed Star Wars but he wouldn't touch it with a barge pole now. He's 'cured' of wanting to do that, he said. And also said he doesn't know how Johnson is still on Twitter.

    It's... interesting, if the state of the franchise is such now that you're actually going to lose potential talent because people just don't want to be involved with it.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  5. #45
    The Brain
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    It's certain a sad testament to how toxic the fandom has become. Some incredibly ugly stuff out there.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    Slightly late to the party, as it disappears from theatres near me tomorrow, so thought I'd watch it today.

    I liked it, but don't love it. I agree with most of the sentiment here, a little bland. But enjoyable enough. Favourite moment was anything involving Lando. Worst was probably Qi'ra. Didn't relate to her in the slightest and was annoyed at not hearing anything about how she got to where she was 3 years later. It's just setting up for a sequel...


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  7. #47
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gooner View Post
    Worst was probably Qi'ra. Didn't relate to her in the slightest and was annoyed at not hearing anything about how she got to where she was 3 years later. It's just setting up for a sequel...
    That is interesting, I thought she was one of the best characters in it. She gave Solo freedom and as a result had to become a pragmatist putting up a facade of cold in difference to everyone simply to protect herself.

    I thought it was pretty clearly implied that she basically prostituted herself to the crime lord dude to gain his favour. Because it is Disney they aren't going to go into detail with that but to me it seemed clear.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Gooner's Avatar
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    Mmm, not so much for me, especially as right at the end she basically took over the reigns. I gathered that was part of it, the prostitution side of it, but because nothing was mentioned, and that scene where she says that Han didn't want to know what she had done, I felt there was more than that.

    Maybe it's just me, but that character annoyed me the most. While unfair, it may just be also that Emilia Clark is slightly typecast. Can't help but think of Daenerys when I see her on screen.


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  9. #49
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Though a massive Wars fan myself I am often repulsed by the anger, arrogance and behaviour of a lot of the fan base.

    In other news, rumours are now flying of there being flashbacks in IX, especially with Snoke, and that Abrams is wanting Ed Harris to play a young version of the character. How much truth there is in that I don't know, but I'd welcome some Snoke context - that remains the biggest part of VIII I just can't come to accommodate.

    I also read they feel they've found a way to honour Carrie Fisher and bring Leia back, and frankly that fills me with a little bit of dread.

  10. #50
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    So I always said to 'Plan that I'd rewatch the first two prequels if they were ever on, since I hadn't seen either of them in... well, let's just say years. So I'd see how they bore up now that there's enough critical distance from those first reactions.

    I've recorded Phantom Menace and either have recorded, or have set to record, Attack of the Clones. So yeah, it's finally going to happen....

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  11. #51
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    Abrams said he’s planning on using footage of Leia shot during VII... no CG or anything like that, so hopefully that eases your mind some, ‘Plan.

  12. #52
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if it does or it doesn't to be honest mate. Since you posted they've also said apparently that they're going to use footage from VIII as well.

    I dunno, I feel like they might have been best placed having had her pass between films. Or would that have been a bit uncouth?

  13. #53
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    Nope. That’s exactly what I was hoping they’d do too. There’s no reason for us to see any vision of her from VIII. I’d honestly have preferred for them to simply say she passed away in between films and leave it at that.

  14. #54
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    I'm split on how to handle the Leia thing, because in many ways her character was too important to just "pass between" films, but I also don't want to force her into a story. Then again I'm sure her passing really messed up the script of the next story anyway. In many ways, even at the time, I wished they killed her character in the space scene and then left Luke alive to battle in IX. When I left the theater, I felt like Luke's story wasn't over, but Leia's story was once it was clear Kylo wasn't redeemable. But for where we are, I don't know, I have to see what they do. I'm very curious on how they handle it and I will be watching night one, just like I have for most the Star Wars movies since the re-releases in the 90's.

  15. #55
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    Disclaimer... I have not watched 8 yet. I don’t know where Luke is (mentally or physically) after the conclusion of 7 and Rey finding him on top of the mountain, therefore I know nothing of what he does or doesn’t do during episode 8. If the things I’ve read of episode 9 having Leia “flashbacks” so to speak... maybe it’s best left as Luke meditating or reaching out to the Force, and he sees these flashbacks in his mind and it builds upon the overall arc that finishes the story. Remember... Leia was the one that first reached out to Obi Wan in episode 4. Maybe it can be a throwback to that in a way. Or maybe... I need to go and watch episode 8 and develop a new theory. Whatevs...

  16. #56
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    I don't mind the 9 movies in production if Disney does it right, but here's the problem with everything, and I mean EVERYTHING Star Wars. This includes Lucas.

    After Star Wars the original Trilogy came out, Lucas had fans so obsessed, people wrote books filling in the stories, they made comic books, they created a whole universe that was part of Lucus's story, but took it to levels no one person could ever take it. Many times the books made no sense within the construct of a huge Star Wars now Legends Universe, but people loved the stories. Once Lucas tried to do the prequels, first off they made no sense, it just felt like he wanted to play with GCI and do better fight scenes. But he could have never made the prequels better than what the fans already wrote. And he knew it once he was done. I wrote what the thought was his story, but by the time it was too late, he realized Star Wars wasn't his story anymore, the fans had taken it and made something that they liked better and he couldn't do anything about it. Him selling to Disney didn't surprise me, I remember going on the Star Tours ride at Disneyland growing up, and thought that Disney would give the franchise to long time fans and they'll make it better. Well they shit the bed and tried to make it something it wasn't, and again, not as good as the stories the fans already wrote for the post original trilogy timeline, and now fans are pissed off and not happy. The whole thing is a mess because people wrote off the fans and tried to make movies for the general audience. They basically are shoving Rey down people's throats like WWE is shoving Roman down wrestling fans' throats.

    With the 9 "Anthology movies," I actually have some hope. If Disney give us something that the fans actually want, something that books and videos game didn't go in great detail over, something that is exciting and new, then I could see it making everything better. For example, a Yoda movie set when he was young, showing him using his full potential force powers. Even though the Solo movie flopped, I'd still like to see a Lando movie and how he came to power. Maybe the Great Sith Wars. If they leave the main characters alone and build on new ones. I think that's why Rogue One was accepted by fans. Rogue One didn't have the main characters, but instead built up new characters to show that the rebellion was bigger than just the Skywalkers and Jedi. About the only main character I would do a movie about, besides Yoda which would be 900 years before New Hope, would be Darth Vader when he first put on the suit. Not an origin story, or him upgrading the suit, but just him searching the galaxy for the last Jedi and slicing them up. Make him powerful, strong, show him at his most dominate. Disney has an opportunity if they can do it right.

  17. #57
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    So in between all the talk of a slow down, it sounds like there's been another trilogy green-lit, which will be led by the showrunners from Game of Thrones. I guess if they're doing the Johnson trilogy as well, that probably means all that stuff about a Boba Fett movie, and Obi-Wan movie, etc is all on hold for the time being.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  18. #58
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    So I hear that there's a couple of big 'franchise' names in the cast for Star Wars IX....


    Matt Smith and Dominic Monaghan.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  19. #59
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Fascinated to see who they both play, especially Matt Smith. I heard rumours he's tipped to portray a young Palpatine.

    There's a reason why that's particularly tantalising: Disney recently introduced a huge new change to the canon in one of the Vader comics they've been running, where they revealed that Anakin was never the prophesied Chosen One at all, but a product of Palpatine manipulating the midichlorians in Shmi Skywalker's body. Some have met the change cynically, but the way it recasts the entire Skywalker Saga is like a magnitude ten earthquake.

    It would basically mean Palps was guaranteed to win the Clone War before it even started, manipulated the Jedi Order into sleep walking towards their own extinction, used their own religion against them, doomed Anakin to his dark and tortured future from the get-go, implanted in the Skywalker line a susceptibility to the dark side; understanding that makes Luke all the more heroic when he resists those urges in the OT and instead stands before Palpatine to declare himself a Jedi, and further it makes Ben Solo's fall the Emperor's final victory, a sort of unintended revenge on Luke for ROTJ as Luke momentarily surrenders to those dark urges he inherited from his father. It makes Padmé a much more vital character to the franchise and opens up the possibility that Episode IX (rumoured to be titled Son of Darkness, incidentally...) will reveal Rey to be the real Chosen One.


    "Darkness rises, and light to meet it" is what Snoke said in The Last Jedi. If Rey is the Chosen One, she essentially restores balance to the Force as prophesied by counteracting the darkness of Kylo Ren, who is ultimately the Sith's legacy by being descended from an Anakin we now know Palpatine created. That would bring together the three trilogies as is rumoured Abrams is looking to do, but what's more is that, if IX is titled Son of Darkness, it might not be referring to Kylo as many assume it is but, in fact, instead refers to Anakin, and the legacy he's left...namely, the entire Skywalker Saga looking to be wrapped up!

    Frankly, I love the revelation. For many reasons.

  20. #60
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    Not digging it at all. The original trilogy set up Luke as being the one that would restore the balance and end the Sith. (We obviously know now that Vader killed Palpatine, though.) Going back to the prequels, it set up Anakin being the One, and the whole story of him turning to the dark side and rejecting his destiny was a good tale, despite how it played out on camera. When you go back and re-watch all the films in order, you can clearly see the rise and fall (and re-rise) of Anakin, so when he fulfills the prophesy, it’s such a sweet moment. Going back and erasing that and putting Rey as the chosen one just screams of SJW and trying to make a female lead as the ultimate hero. Nothing wrong with a woman being the hero, mind you, but don’t ret-con 40 years just to pander to the crowd nowadays.
    Last edited by meandi; 12-24-2018 at 01:06 AM.

  21. #61
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    I don't think that's entirely accurate - never was it explicitly confirmed on screen that Anakin was the Chosen One, and in fact it gets repeatedly questioned in every Prequel Episode. I even know a handful of fans personally who always assumed Palpatine created him anyway, and there's long been fan theories on the matter since the Darth Plagueis scene in III. Plus, the Chosen One was a concept that only got introduced into the Prequels. So I don't feel like it really is a ret-con, and certainly not one of 40 year old continuity in my opinion.

  22. #62
    So sounds like Richard E Grant is going to be in IX, and some of his comments on the press tour have been taken as a signal that it's definitely the final movie in the Skywalker story

  23. #63
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    I think it's been relatively known that such would be the case already, right? That it's the last Skywalker Saga movie? It probably needs to be anyhow, otherwise there'd be a danger of the story going on so long it loses any effect. Some might even contend that's already the case, in fact! I'm certainly hugely intrigued as to how Abrams is going to go about tying everything up - there are claims he's bringing together elements of all three Trilogies to create something epic. Guess we'll see. Surely it's only going to be a few months now until we get a first trailer?!

  24. #64
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    There's been a rumour around that the Rian Johnson trilogy has had been shelved because he's dropped out. Some film site started sharing it, but it doesn't seem like they did their homework very well because Johnson himself debunked it in something like an hour.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  25. #65
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    I think that was flying around some time ago wasn't it? Besides, it strikes me that those who disliked Episode VIII so much (which I did at first but of course later changed my mind quite radically!) are an extremely vocal minority so it doesn't surprise me that such rumours are fluff. I know they've asked the Game of Thrones show runners to put together a trilogy as well, so it looks like we're going to be set for Wars movies still in the coming decades. So long as the quality is maintained, I guess....

  26. #66
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I didn't really know where else to put this, but someone I know was going through a bunch of job applications and one of the applicants apparently had the first name, 'Anakin'.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  27. #67

  28. #68
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Who else has seen the trailer for episode 9?

    Watch it before you read the rest of this.















    Seems like Rey may be a Skywalker after all. I always wondered if Kylo telling her that her parents were no one was him just trying to get in her head.

  29. #69
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    I’m not watching it, but good? Lol

  30. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirSam View Post
    Who else has seen the trailer for episode 9?

    Watch it before you read the rest of this.















    Seems like Rey may be a Skywalker after all. I always wondered if Kylo telling her that her parents were no one was him just trying to get in her head.
    I read a theory somewhere that Rey was a clone of Luke made from his hand that he lost. Would technically make sense about her parents being “no one”.

  31. #71
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    If Rey turns out to be a clone, then to quote Deadpool..."That's just lazy writing".

    Let Rey be some long lost relative, like for instance, Shimi (Anakin's mother) was a slave prior to "getting saved" by Anakin and dying. So it is entirely possible that as a slave Shimi was raped and impregnated by her owners, and Rey's father (or grandfather) is the bastard son of Shimi Skywalker, and later producing a daughter or granddaughter, Rey.

    I know that is far fetched, but it may be better than a clone theory. Besides, all clones we have seen so far look exactly the same as their "parent" Jengo Fett.

    The trailer clearly implies that Rey is a Skywalker, as does the other movies, so why not have her be a cousin to Ben/Kylo.

  32. #72
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    People keep saying the trailer clearly implies Rey is a Skywalker. I disagree. There's nothing in there that explicitly points to that. The title could mean a raft of things.

    It feels likely Rey will be a Skywalker. But Kylo is one as much as he is a solo. Maybe it refers to his redemption. Maybe it refers to the notion of Luke's legend, and it rising to inspire others to come to the aid of the Resistance, which formed the entire thematic conclusion to The Last Jedi. Maybe it refers to a resurrection for Luke. Maybe it refers to Leia further tapping into her own Jedi powers referenced and used in ROTJ and TLJ (unlikely considering the method used to keep Leia in the film).

    There's one theory doing the rounds I like - that Skywalker isn't a name reference in the title, but that Rey will found a new order dedicated to a more balanced view of the Force, eschewing the Jedi Order and naming this new order "the Skywalkers" in honour and recognition of the family that changed the galaxy. That would certainly fit the theme of the "third part" titles, previously named after an Order and the predominant action of that order in that film - the Sith and their revenge, the Jedi and their return, the Skywalkers and their rise.

    Regardless, I don't think the title spoils anything and could refer to more than people recognise. I love it.

    Oh. Re the Rey is a clone thing, I'm not a fan. Like, why would a Luke clone not just be an exact replica? Why the mystery? How did she end up with junkers? Eh. It's the final part of a nine episode saga. I'd rather them focus on solutions that tie it up, not ones that just present more questions. I usually don't mind the latter, but in this instance I think the story begs for closure. Proper closure.

  33. #73
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    The Rey is a clone thing is very much out of nowhere and would be terrible writing.

    Now I've thought about it you are absolutely right Plan Skywalker Rises could just as much be about Kylo rising from the pit of the dark side to redeem himself. I still hope Rey is 'no one' I loved the Last Jedi and I loved the themes it brought up particularly with how universal the force can be, it felt a lot like the way Yoda describes it in Empire which is still my favourite moment in all of Star Wars.

    "Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship."

    I am interested to see where Rey's journey goes, will she be truly tempted by The Emperor? One of the most powerful things about the original throne room was just how close Luke came to giving into his temptations and I really didn't get that feeling from the throne room scene with Snoke, visually it was amazing but emotionally far less powerful.

    It is an interesting thought that Rey would start a new order called the Skywalkers that focus on proper balance given that the prophecy supposedly about them said that The Skywalkers would bring balance to the force.

  34. #74
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Happy Star Wars Day folks!

    I'm currently entering hour five of my traditional movie marathon, done in my modified flashback order of course. Which means I'm on Episode IV, which has just started. Interesting how it's tone is amplified so much by watching Rogue One immediately before it. The urgency, desperation and sense of fateful luck become much more intense and obvious, the stakes feel MUCH higher and the Rebel victory at the end feels so much more important and bittersweet knowing what it took and why it was possible. As a double-bill, it's riveting.

    So I've gotten most of the way through Empire but I had to log back in to vent, because every year I revisit these films and every year I get more agitated watching Empire because of this unquestioned notion it's the best of the lot when it really isn't as far as I'm concerned.

    It's structured poorly. It's paced bizarrely and haphazardly. The Battle of Hoth sags without any kind of real form to it. Boba Fett is introduced to do nothing, and the plot reasons for him being there are riddled with holes. The Empire hire him, but he's hunting Han for Boba, but the Empire will pay him if Han dies after having previously dictated terms to him for the job he's doing for a gangster I presume hasn't been consulted...? Similarly, the Falcon is in a right state the whole through seemingly just because they need for plot to happen. Leia's characterisation is awful too. She goes from a head-strong kick ass hero in the first film to a dithering damsel in distress who seems to only serve the purpose of making Han look cool for the majority of the movie, and eventually has to be rescued by Lando. The most they could find for Chewie to do is build C-3PO, and the most they could find for 3PO to do is get blown up. The Force is presented in this really weirdly confusing way which at times contradicts most of the other movies. Luke's training is far more problematic than the maligned manner of Rey's in The Last Jedi - apparently a couple of jogs and a few headstands are all it takes to become something of a Jedi? Great stuff. The film has a curious preoccupation with its fetish for murdering Imperial officers that contributes absolutely nothing to the overall story. And it's the only film I can think of that spoils its plot halfway through - you know Lando is going to betray his friends because Han and Leia spend all their time drilling it into you over and over about how untrustworthy he is and then Luke and Yoda are sat on Dagobah talking about Han and Leia being in pain in a city in the clouds!

    I love all the Wars movies in spite of their flaws, Empire included - but, man, this rep it has drives me absolutely nuts. It has as many, if not more downsides to it than the other films and, apart from maybe Attack of the Clones, every one of the other films does at least one thing better than Empire does.

    /Rantover.

  35. #75
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    The seems to be some rumours out there that Episode 9 has leaked. Could be nonsense, of course, but if you're wanting to keep yourself free of any chance of spoiler contamination I'd be careful....

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  36. #76
    I haven't seen anything about it so can't have been that big a leak.

  37. #77
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Yeah, I haven't seen this either and I follow a lot of social media accounts that normally present this kind of thing. Where'd you hear Prime?

    For VII and VIII I had no qualms about being accidentally spoiled because it's not normally something I get too stressed about, but for IX I have actively decided to do just that. Lots riding on this. Can't tell you how excited I am for it. I love the title already, alone!

  38. #78
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Oh boy. Lots of announcements. Firstly The Mandalorian which will be a live action show coming out in November about Bobba Fett. Here is the trailer:


    They also announced the return of Ewan McGregor as Obi-WAn for another TV show which I am very excited about.

    There was also a pretty cool poster shown for Rise of Skywalker as well as some in film footage that hasn't been officially released yet.



    In terms of the announcements the one that excited me most was the Obi-Wan show. McGregor's take as Obi-Wan was the highlight of the prequels for me and the idea of them exploring his life hiding out after the fall of The Jedi & The Republic is going to be really interesting. With The Manadalorian I'm never one who has got super excited about Bobba Fett and never really thought he was that interesting of a character but the trailer looked interesting enough for me to explore more. I've always really enjoyed the shows like Clone Wars that explore what life is like in the Universe beyond these incredible main characters and I think The Mandalorian would be in a great position to do that.

    There isn't a whole lot to say about the Episode 9 poster other than it looks super epic and I'm very excited for it to come out.

    One general observation though is that to me it is weird having so much Star Wars stuff around. For so long in my life big official Star Wars projects were few and far between but now they are coming out so thick and fast. This isn't a gripe so much as a weird feeling about all this extra content that of course I'm happy about but still feels kind of weird for me.
    Last edited by SirSam; 3 Weeks Ago at 05:19 AM.

  39. #79
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    The Mandalorian isn't about Boba, Sam - just a bounty hunter in Mandalorian armour! I think played by Pedro Pascal, who was Oberyn in Thrones of course. So he himself isn't the legendary Fett. About that show, what I'm most amped up for is actually exploring the galaxy during the time it's set in - between Episodes VI and VII. Seeing how things changed after the fall of the Empire is going to be a lot of fun I think, especially as it isn't really at the heart of the Sequels.

    Like you, I too am hugely excited for the Kenobi series as well. Looking at the production values in the Mandalorian trailer, and guessing Obi-Wan's show follows suit, I'm more excited about getting a show than I would have been getting a movie. Greater depth of storytelling is going to be a treat with McGregor's version, and seeing what his take can do with some more robust material is going to be very rewarding I imagine. Plus, anything that acknowledges the Prequels is a win in my book anyway.

    I'm also getting increasingly excited for Episode IX. I love the title more every time I stop to consider it. And while there is a fear of too much material, like Sam says, I think they've done well to detox a little after Solo last year. The time span between Solo and anything else has felt refreshing and while this time in a couple of years we may feel different again, for now I think things are looking healthy and I'm excited for the looming projects.

    I'd be far more concerned if I was an MCU super-fan like I am a Star Wars super-fan. Is their ultimate goal to create a world in which a minute never passes without new content? Or has Vinny Mac taken over Disney I wonder? Hah.

  40. #80
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    I'm really intrigued by the possibility of the Obi-Wan spinoff. Does he stay on Tantooine? Does he travel? Does he get involved in gang politics? Does he help other exiled Jedi? How does he stay hidden from Dath Vader?

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