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  1. #1
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Maz Kanata's Watering Hole - The Star Wars Thread

    Star Wars Thread is back! And we've moved locations; no more scum and villainy here. At least of the wretched kind.

    Star Wars Day was last weekend. Anyone do anything to celebrate? Probably not I exp CT, but I sat and did a marathon of my Machete Order! 7, R1, 4, 5, 2, 3, 6, 8! It was pretty epic. Turned a linear story into a Game of Thrones style epic that swept across a century of galactic history!

  2. #2
    32B apparently SirSam's Avatar
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    Maz Kanata's Watering Hold, where is the love for Dex's Diner?

    I'm really interested in giving your machete order a shot at some point especially with how I think it will really enhance the new trilogy.

    For my part on May 4th I did Star Wars games at my Youth Group and watched The Last Jedi. I stand by my original judgement that it is amongst the best Star Wars films, I love the way it deconstructed the Jedi, Luke and subverted everything about Rey. On reflection I think the people who were getting annoyed about Luke's fall miss how he acted in the Throne Room. He did give his Father a second chance but he also lost it and only managed to just pull himself back from ending Vader. What happened with Kylo was actually quite predictable, he was tempted, went to the edge and pulled back at the last second, Kylo just woke up at exactly the wrong moment.

    I am very curious to see what we get when we go back to JJ for IX, I don't think I could take it if he went back to what I imagine was his original vision, hopefully he builds off Ryan Johnson's work. I say that not because I don't want Luke to be a legend and I want Rey to be no one special I just don't want a hard swing back after the hard swing away form the traditional 'Star Wars' mythos VIII made.

  3. #3
    The Brain
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    I had to look up Maz Kanata, so I guess my credibility as a Star Wars fan is already in question!

    Love the original series, particularly the Empire Strikes Back. I think Return of the Jedi is very underrated, I love the early stuff with the assault on Jabba's palace, and I was never bothered by the Ewoks like some seem to be. Sure, they're for marketing, but basically everything was in those films anyway? You think they didn't want to sell a butt load of Han Solo and Darth Vader figures?

    I know some people (Plan, mostly) staunchly defend the prequels, but I just can't get into them. I find them worse by pretty much every metric. I dislike how heavily they rely on CGI, I think the acting and especially the writing is generally of lower quality, I think the direction is worse, I dislike how elements of the original trilogy are sprinkled in for no reason (why did Anakin build C3PO???), and I just generally don't enjoy them that much. I do think certain scenes are well done and there are some cool design elements. Darth Maul in Phantom Menace stands out, especially in his final duel, and the third one is generally much better than the first two.

    I do enjoy the new films, though I don't regard them as standalone classics like the original films as they tend to be bit derivative. VII was pretty much a rehash of IV, but I didn't hold that against it, and honestly it may still be my favorite of the new batch. Rogue One is a film I liked for the most part, though the ending drives me a little nuts from a continuity perspective. Vader just saw you blast out of the rebel flagship, Leia, how are you gonna say 10 seconds later you were on a diplomatic mission?!? I also really disliked the Peter Cushing homunculus, it was technically impressive but just seemed WRONG. Last Jedi was a little more mixed for me, it felt very disjointed at times, and the way Luke ended up didn't really satisfy me. It had many good elements too, and I'm still interested to see how IX comes out.

    I have to say, I'm VERY excited for the Solo movie, possibly just because Donald Glover as Lando looks absolutely amazing and fully worthy of getting his own film. I do think the actor playing Solo, whose name I forget and am too lazy to look up, is doing a good job working in some Ford tendencies to his performance, at least based on the trailer. Will definitely be going out to see that one.

  4. #4
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    There's so much in your post that makes me went to bicker with you! Haha.

    Regarding Rogue One, there's no reason Vader had to assume that Leia's ship was the one in the fleet at Scarif. Those blockade runners are everywhere, and as we know from TLS, hyperspace tracking at the time was impossible. It's also worth noting that Captain Antilles isn't specifically mentioned by name, and that R2 and 3PO were at Yavin when the fleet took off - so it's quite possible Leia transferred ships to avoid pursuit as best she could!

    And Anakin building 3PO did feel a little needless, but at the same time it demonstrates how, even as a small boy, he showed signs of being the control freak that ultimately played a massive part in catalysing his fall to the Dark Side.

  5. #5
    The Brain
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    That's a lot of justification about the ship! Vader was looking right at the ship and followed them right away, so I'm just not sure I buy it. At the very least, it feels like a lot of assumptions for the audience to have to make just so they could have the visual of that same ship leading right into the first shots of New Hope.

    And I'm sorry, no argument can convince me that a slave boy felt the need to build a protocol droid!

  6. #6
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    All I'm saying is that the bigger continuity error is seeing R2 and 3PO on Yavin after Leia's ship has left.... So now that can irritate you too! 😁

    And even a slave boy in a hub of intergalactic commerce and gambling working in a junk shop who will undoubtedly meet hundreds of aliens he hasn't been educated about because he's a slave?!

  7. #7
    The Brain
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    Yeah, that actually did bug the crap out of me too!

    If Anakin really built a droid to teach him how to behave (how would he have even programmed him for protocol anyway??), you'd think he wouldn't be asking random women if they're angels.

  8. #8
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    It's not about behaving but about having a translator for all those alien customers! And I imagine he knew how to programme it for protocol because of some spare droid parts in Watto's junk shop. 😁

    Or maybe Maz helped him. Seriously, if you look carefully you see a statue in Anakin's room that looks EXACTLY like Maz from Episode VII!

  9. #9
    The Brain
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    Now that's actually a cool connection that I wouldn't mind them exploring a bit more.

  10. #10
    32B apparently SirSam's Avatar
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    To jump in here while I think the prequels are unfairly trestled a but I still feel like they are very far from perfect films.

    One major thing that has always bugged me is how Anikin's fall was handled, it all happens far too quickly for my liking. He goes from still very conflicted and planning on doing the right thing to the wholesale slaughter of younglings within the space of an hour.

  11. #11
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    You're conflating motivation; Anakin doesn't kill Jedi because he wants to save Padmé.

    Anakin wants to prevent Padmé from dying in childbirth per his visions. Palpatine plays on that fear to tempt Anakin to the Dark Side by promising him a solution. Crucially, though, at the same time he manipulates the situation with Anakin and the Jedi Order expertly by playing on the prejudices and predictable reactions of both. This means that when Anakin pledges himself to the Chancellor to save Padmé, the seeds have been sown for the Chancellor to very quickly solidify Anakin's turn because of his own priority - creating a distrust in the Jedi; especially as the Order - "even your friend, Obi Wan Kenobi..." - presented a high chance of pulling Anakin away from his temptation before the Chancellor could solidify his hold.

    It's not just personal emotion in play with Anakin's fall but politics as well. Killing younglings is a result of distrust sewn between Anakin and the Jedi on a political front; it has nothing really to do with Padmé. The Dark Side is a poison in the soul that drives you to extremes.

    And all of this is possible because, ultimately, Anakin was afraid of losing Padmé like he lost his mother and, as we know, fear (of losing Padmé) leads to anger (at his sense of helplessness and inability to prevent it), anger (also felt towards the Jedi for apparently not wanting or being able to help him) leads to hate (of the Order Palpatine drives him to resenting), hate (of an Order his rapidly growing paranoia now convinces him is seeking to overturn democracy) leads to suffering (killing the Jedi and their future).

  12. #12
    32B apparently SirSam's Avatar
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    Yeah I understand what you are saying but I felt like the swing of allegiance was just way too quick. He went into that room at least trying with all his heart to walk in the light, wanting to arrest Palpatine and merely stops Mace Windu from killing him, he doesn't even attack Windu,that is all Palpatine. His distrust of the Jedi is cemented by Windu's actions however I have never bought Anakin, who baulked at killing Dooku, a smith lord, at the start of the movie and who actually just saved Palpatine, just walks out of that room with his entire moral compass reversed, immediately ready to kill a bunch of kids.

    I guess I just wish the fall had taken longer, I like how Anakin is isolated from the Jedi he respects and trusts and how Palpatine so expertly manipulates him but perhaps there should have been a greater demonstration of Palpatine's power to further convince Anakin that the light side was too restrictive beyond just the story he spins at the opera.

    I do love talking about the prequels, I genuinely love those movies and think that with just a few edits here or there they could have been something really amazing. They had so much ambition and really broaden the scope of the galaxy.

  13. #13
    The Brain
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    I think the moment would have come across better if someone had explained to Hayden Christensen about "acting".

  14. #14
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    I've just started working on a long-ass explanation of the New Order I've been watching the films in now for around two years, which I fully intend to post as a bit of a blog series over in the Non-Wrestling Writing subforum once they're all squared away and ready! It might be a while before then, but I'm excited to share my long list of observations about the way the films change when you see them through the eyes I've seen them through!

  15. #15
    32B apparently SirSam's Avatar
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    Apparently there is going to be a Bobba Fett movie put together by the same guy who made Logan.

    I'm so torn, I love the idea of a very serious Star Wars movie along the lines of Logan but I just think it is an opportunity missed to do an Obi Wan movie in between Revenge & Hope.

    Seeing Obi-Wan grappling with the betrayl of a man who was his brother as well as the destruction of everything he believed in could be something really special.

  16. #16
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Yeah, I have even less interest in a Fett movie than I did in the Solo movie. I feel like the franchise is just being hijacked by a single generation of fans intent on pumping out glorified fan fiction. There's no interesting story to really tell with Fett as far as I can see - part of his original appeal was the sinister mystique he carried. Why do we have to have everything explained away?

    I'll inevitably see it, of course, because I'm a fan, so I shouldn't really complain. I just fear this is all we're going to get from now on - movies based on a single character rather than an interesting story (like Rogue One told). I'd love an Obi Wan movie, but at this stage my first preference is for original material. There's so much untapped in the Star Wars universe that it seems silly to me to just develop this blinkered vision over a handful of characters.

    Having said all of this, I can't help but feel like the ending of Solo is designed to feed into Fett....

  17. #17
    The Brain
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    Saw Solo this weekend! Thought it was very fun, not mind blowing but extremely well cast with a solid adventure story. Made me want to rewatch the original trilogy too, they did a great job connecting visually with that era. The reveal at the end was certainly unexpected!

    I admit, I'd very much like to see a Boba Fett movie. I love the character and dislike what they did with him in the prequels (surprise, surprise!). In an ideal I'd start the movie with him blowing his way out of the Sarlaac Pit and go from there.

    I'd definitely be down for an Obi-Wan movie too. Pretty much any Star Wars story is going to interest me at this point, and honestly I think I'm more invested in the standalone stories within the universe than I am in the new trilogy continuing!

  18. #18
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    What did everyone make of the Jedi robe "Controversy" on twitter?!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  19. #19
    The Brain
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    I had to look it up to even know what it was! Of all the plot holes you could make a case for, that one seems pretty far down the totem pole.

  20. #20
    32B apparently SirSam's Avatar
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    That is interesting given that it wasn't untill the prequels that the robe was canonised as the Jedi 'uniform' and Luke certainly never wore the robes in Empire of Return of The Jedi.

    Would have to agree that it is a pretty weak plot hole to be kicking up against in a series so riddled with the damn things it is part I it's charm.

  21. #21
    The Brain
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    I mean, Luke kind of wears it in Return when he goes to see Jabba's Palace, right? but yeah, doesn't seem like a big thing.

  22. #22
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Apparently there are NINE Star Wars movies in production, so people aren't fazed by Solo's poor returns at the box office.

    Also it's broken as to what George Lucas planned to do in episodes 7-9, and frankly it sounds like fucking garbage.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  23. #23
    The Brain
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    Not surprising! What's the gist of it, Pete?

  24. #24
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    From what I read, it was something about encountering the Whills - an idea in GL's earliest conceptualisations, back when Star Wars was sub-titled From the Journal of the Whills or some-such.

    Rumours emerging today that Lucasfilm has called time on experimenting with unknown quantities in the directing chair and instead plugging for those proven in the field of big budget movie making. I'm also seeing that they've put a pause on the Star Wars Story spin-offs, potentially leaving the rumoured Boba Fett and Obi-Wan movies in limbo. Pumped as I was at the idea of seeing Ewan McGregor back in the robes, I have to say that the latter rumours are like music to my ears.

    The Wars universe is vast, and screen canon alone covers a period of 100 years. It's such a waste to just keep churning out cash-cows based on existing characters, rather than crafting something original and compelling.

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