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Thread: Undertaker

  1. #1
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Undertaker

    Apparently 'Taker is confirmed for the MSG show in July. I guess this might be the last time he works the famous old arena.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  2. #2
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Who is Takers final match against at Mania next year?

  3. #3
    The Brain
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Who is Takers final match against at Mania next year?
    I feel like we've asked this for the past 5 years at least. I expect to see him hobbling to the ring at Wrestlemania 50 at this rate.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Mickie James and Magnus's kid.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  5. #5
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    He has run out of opponents that are worthy enough now.

    HHH, Cena, Lesnar, Orton, all done.

    Strowman retires Taker is the only other choice..

  6. #6
    The Brain
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    As we saw this past year, having a worth match is no longer a concern anymore.

    If he absolutely must wrestle, I wouldn't mind seeing him wrestle the current generation just to see what they can do together. AJ, Rollins, Bryan, Miz, just find him a fresh and interesting opponent and see what they can do. Doesn't even really matter who wins, though I guess Taker probably shouldn't squash any really promising guys.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    In a world where wrestling is just a TV show, does it even matter? I wonder if no one really gives a shit if you couldn't just go on a win streak against top talent after being beat by a 60 year old 'Taker and no one would bat an eyelid.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  8. #8
    The Brain
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    Haha, come on now, wrestling can be a TV show and wins and losses still matter. Basically crippled Andre beat guys back in the day and didn't destroy their careers. Old man Bruno beat the crap out of Randy Savage in '85 and he did alright.

    I guess it would have to be done with a certain amount of care, but if Taker must be in there I just want it to be interesting, instead of retreading with other elderly or stale acts.

  9. #9
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    I really want Taker to be retired by someone.

  10. #10
    The Brain
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    I would also like that, but I'm just not holding my breath at this point. Taker seems to retire all the time now but it doesn't stick.

  11. #11
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    Not so sure that he wants more. This could be his retirement tour.

  12. #12
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    Haha, come on now, wrestling can be a TV show and wins and losses still matter. Basically crippled Andre beat guys back in the day and didn't destroy their careers. Old man Bruno beat the crap out of Randy Savage in '85 and he did alright.

    I guess it would have to be done with a certain amount of care, but if Taker must be in there I just want it to be interesting, instead of retreading with other elderly or stale acts.
    It can, but it doesn't seem to matter in practice even if it could in theory. And if those examples prove anything, it was that it was saveable even before it was just a TV show, so if anything surely that would imply it's even less of a concern?

    I mean, honestly I think 'Taker could run roughshod over the WWE roster and the way they present their talent it wouldn't matter much.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  13. #13
    The Brain
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    I find that sad but probably true. I think it's less about Taker being old and more about the general modern WWE presentation though.

  14. #14
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I don't disagree on that. All I'd maintain is that it is more true in a 'this is just a show' mentality than one that wants to work within a sporting presentation.

    And, of course, a few choices by promoters back in the day doesn't really change points about fundamental approaches because there's key differences that making like for like comparisons doesn't recognise.


    But yeah, long story short. At this point Taker could win ten more matches and quit, and I don't think most fans would mind or any career would suffer a single iota.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  15. #15
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    However, If we do say that the WWE is a TV show, after 28 years the character of the Undertaker needs to retire.

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    That doesn't follow logically. Valid opinion, though. Can't imagine many people here will disagree.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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    I think Undertaker made a serious mistake coming back. At least he got a proper send-off by Reigns, and they had a solid-good (with some awkward parts) 3~ star match, where everyone correctly perceived that a broken-down, but still somewhat able, Undertaker did everything his body would let him, and left it all in the ring.

    He has since then had hip replacement surgery, and is less mobile than I've ever seen him. Which is probably why he had that 3 minute Cena match. So he has nullified his retirement, and is in no shape to have the kind of retirement match I imagine he would want to have (and that people would want to have him). So, there's a chance, maybe, that his match against Rusev might end up being his last. Which is just very weird.

  18. #18
    The Brain
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    Since he's already been announced for the MSG show in July, I'd say he thinks he's got at least one more match in him!

  19. #19
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    Another three is the rumour I'd heard....

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  20. #20
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    This is so damn sad, it is actually like watching an old fighter keep coming back, every loss just convinces them they need to go out on a high and every win just convinces them they've still got enough to mix it with the current crop. Obviously this is not a direct comparison but figurative wins and losses in terms of how he feels about his 'final match': he disliked what he did against Reigns so wanted to make it right, once he made it right at Raw 25 and Cena he thought 'I've still got this' and had a mediocre match with Rusev so now has to do something to 'make it right'. It is a never ending cycle.

    I was so on board with his retirement with Reigns, I thought it was an amazing send off and told a really fitting story, the kind we will actually look back on one day as something very special but now he is back it makes me wonder what the point of it was? They didn't even try to retcon his return and make it fit the narrative they had of the Reigns match being his 'last ride', he just showed up again as if nothing mattered. I mean what is even the point of him coming back? What story are they trying to tell? Do they think him squashing the guys they are already struggling to make into stars is going to help their overall problem with not having current standouts?

  21. #21
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    That's a fantastically apt analogy, @SirSam. It's always sad to see the fighter past his prime who refuses to hang up his boots, keeps coming back and getting wrecked or barely surviving. It's even more sad because Taker once publicly avowed that he would never become that guy. But then, so did Sting.

    I wasn't aware that Taker was on for the MSG show, so there goes my theory.

  22. #22
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    MSG in July, Australia in October.... just needs the one more in 2019 (dare I suggest Wrestlemania) for the 'at least three matches' rumour to be true.

    I guess you could have it be 'will he get his 25th victory at Wrestlemania or will he leave on his back'?
    Last edited by Prime Time; 06-18-2018 at 11:26 AM.

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  24. #24
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    I saw that and was like, actually, this is the 'Taker I'd love to see make his final match at Wrestlemania!

  25. #25
    The Brain
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    Agreed, I was blown away by that. I don't know if he's looked that good this whole decade. It was a very short burst so I'm not gonna hold my breath but still, I never expected to see him work that pace again.

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    Everyone has been praising that. I don't know if I'm still on board, but I acknowledge I'm in the minority position. He still seems to have a little bit of a gut, and I still felt his movements in the Rusev match were pretty slow. Maybe it's just the smark in me not being able to appreciate it for what it was, but he is 53 years old, has had a hip surgery (which he put off for years and years, because he wanted to get it after he was retired. He got it after WM 33, when he allegedly retired, and then came back anyway). Those two leg drops that he always does in every single match, Old School, Tombstones, I can really imagine all of those being painful on his already bad knees, and his hip.

    Should he really be still wrestling, or trying to build to a final 'epic' 20 minute WM style main event match? I could see it going badly or him getting hurt. It's admirable that he wants to go on a high note, I guess, but he really should just preserve whatever is left of his health.
    Last edited by Alan; 07-12-2018 at 03:13 AM.

  27. #27
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    is the point to get to one of those 20 min Wrestlemania matches for a sendoff.. Or is it just him being healthy again, as much as he can be and doing high priced favors for Vince?

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    Well, he has been trying to 'retire' at WM for several years now, and keeps coming back, partially because of the money, and partially because he keeps becoming unsatisfied with his supposed last matches.

    He was supposed to retire at WM 30, but he got a concussion, and was disappointed with how the match turned out, so he came back. Then he tried to retire at WM 32, where he was initially supposed to wrestle Lesnar in a tie-breaker match (after losing to Brock at WM 30, and winning at SS 2015). But Vince ended up moving that match to HIAC 2015.

    So then it was supposed to be Taker/Cena, but then Cena ended up getting injured, and he got stuck with Shane. He did the match and told everyone backstage that he was 'done', but then came back next year, and was determined to 'put a young guy over and go out on his back in true old school fashion'...

    That young guy ended up being Roman. So they do the match, and then actually do an official retirement angle.... And he comes back this year to finally do that WM Cena match that he had been wanting to do for years and years. Unfortunately, and presumably, Taker is in too unsuitable shape and fitness to have a proper match, so they do a 3 minute squash to send the crowd home happy, and now rumors are that he may be building up to have a 'proper' match at Summerslam with Cena.

    There's a very clear pattern here...

  29. #29
    The Brain
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    I do doubt Taker has a worthwhile 20 minute "epic" in him still, but if he's absolutely determined to keep wrestling, going in short bursts like that is probably the best thing they can do with him. A few fun squashes, tag matches, that kind of thing.

  30. #30
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    The WM 33 match was 23 minutes. Granted it had some rough spots, and Taker was pretty spent near the end, but it was regarded as decent by most. Not the classic that Undertaker might have had during 2007-2014, but still. He can probably beat a 20 minute match out of his body, it just won't meet his own expectations.

  31. #31
    The Brain
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    And here I thought the Reigns match was largely panned? But I guess I didn't see many people calling it a complete stinker. Pretty low bar to jump over though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    And here I thought the Reigns match was largely panned? But I guess I didn't see many people calling it a complete stinker. Pretty low bar to jump over though.
    Most people rated it as a 2.5-3 star affair. Upon checking, apparently Meltzer gave it 3 stars. That seems about right. A decent outing, nothing special to write home about, and again, it had some rough spots. Certainly not a memorable match by any stretch, or in the canon of great Undertaker WM matches.

  33. #33
    The Brain
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    Yeah, for a Wrestlemania closing match that's not great, but sounds like not a total bomb.

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    I hated the match and it made me feel bad for Taker. The crowd didn't help but it just had no drama at the end.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    Yeah, for a Wrestlemania closing match that's not great, but sounds like not a total bomb.
    It's certainly not the ideal WM match, and doesn't conform to what the WWE would like people to think of as being WM main event quality, but when you look back over the years, even recent years, WWE has had their fair share of shitty WM main events, so it's not that out of the norm. They're not exactly NJPW, when it comes to guaranteeing you epic matches for their big time shows and main events.

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    its always seemed to me that WWE is trying to chase Taker/HBK with their main events at Mania but missing the mark every time lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    its always seemed to me that WWE is trying to chase Taker/HBK with their main events at Mania but missing the mark every time lol.
    Well, that match is the exemplar of the WWE style that has developed over the last 10-15 years.

  38. #38
    Perhaps the match with Triple H will be his final bout? I feel The Undertaker is looking for the right moment and right guy to retire against.

    It was rumoured he wanted to retire at WM32 after Shane but that was all about Shane who is shit in the ring. WM33 he probably thought Reigns was the correct guy, but the match wasn't what he wanted it to be. As a guess I just don't think he rates Cena in the ring- I think if he did, I think he would have faced him years ago at WM and probably would have been a much longer match, and Rusev don't have the star power. So perhaps he will be happy having his final bout against Triple H

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    I hated the match and it made me feel bad for Taker. The crowd didn't help but it just had no drama at the end.
    To be honest, they killed the drama at WM30. There's not been any drama about any Taker Mania match since then because they ended their story.

    Bringing him back to perform at Mania was a really, really daft idea.

  40. #40
    Having him lose the streak was a really bad decision. The streak was what made Undertaker legendary.... Now there's little storyline appeal to his Wrestlemania matches.

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