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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    The correct answer is that Falls Count Anywhere matches is a very easy gimmick to end in a fashion that protects both guys, while never delivering a satisfactory ending to the feud. Look to Batista vs Cena before Dave left WWE, with his feet duct taped to the ringpost. Cena won, the feud ended, but Dave was uber protected.

    Or, consider how Jericho defeated Kane at Armageddon 2000 with a load of barrels over the Big Red Machine. It ended the feud, but Jericho didn't come out looking like a mega hero. He looked like he barely got out alive.

    Seth vs Fiend will be similar to one of these comparisons, before they move onto separate brands completely.
    But those two matches were last man standing matches.

  2. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    OK, but again how?

    It took what? 5-6 stomps, a ladder, a tool box, and a sledge hammer just to keep him down for a few, then he popped back up like nothing happened at all. So how is a Black Mass going to keep him down?

    The WWE made the Fiend too powerful, and screwed themselves by not putting the title on him at HIAC.
    And they've never defined Aleister Black's ceiling. Not to mention, he isn't defined as a face or a heel. If anything, considering he is begging the roster to step up and fight him, he is closer to heel, and has every reason to attack the Fiend. He is intrigued with the Fiend after the HIAC match, and wants to see how he stacks up. Then if they booked him to actually hurt the Fiend, Aleister is instantly propelled to the top of the card, while they protect Seth and The Fiend. Then even in a loss to the Fiend, if they make it a long match that is super close, Aleister is suddenly a top player on the main roster. It is that easy. WWE will fuck it up, but it would be THAT easy of they decided to start booking like they had a clue.


  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeLostInRewind View Post
    But those two matches were last man standing matches.
    Same logic applies.

  4. #524
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    I'm reminded of Mankind vs Rock in (I think) the empty arena match. Mankind ended up keeping Rock down through a, very corny, pin with palettes on a forklift.

    That's still one of my favourite Rock/Mankind matches, actually.

    I figure this will end in something very similar. It won't end in a 'clean' win or a clear pinfall by Rollins - it might if WWE wanted to be interesting and give The Fiend the title then have the people at Raw scramble to make a trade and get their title back. I think if they had done the draft with GMs (Heyman and Bischoff/Pritchard, for example) rather than with the network executives they might be wiling to do something like that here. But realistically I can't see them getting the people from USA Network (is it USA?) involved again on screen, and certainly not in that manner.

    Would make for an interesting Raw the Monday after, though, as behind the scenes they scramble to do a deal with Smackdown that gets their title back. Then you could close the show with The Fiend showing up and establishing his next feud.

  5. #525
    Who would you trade to Smackdown for The Fiend? Seth Rollins?

    I don't see The Fiend winning. I can't see us having The Fiend vs Cain or Lesner at Survivor series. I also can't see Cain vs Rollins either, so neither title likely changes hands here.
    Last edited by LifeLostInRewind; 4 Weeks Ago at 06:52 AM.

  6. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kleckamania View Post
    And they've never defined Aleister Black's ceiling. Not to mention, he isn't defined as a face or a heel. If anything, considering he is begging the roster to step up and fight him, he is closer to heel, and has every reason to attack the Fiend. He is intrigued with the Fiend after the HIAC match, and wants to see how he stacks up. Then if they booked him to actually hurt the Fiend, Aleister is instantly propelled to the top of the card, while they protect Seth and The Fiend. Then even in a loss to the Fiend, if they make it a long match that is super close, Aleister is suddenly a top player on the main roster. It is that easy. WWE will fuck it up, but it would be THAT easy of they decided to start booking like they had a clue.
    I completely agree with this, but the problem is, right now the WWE has 1 supernatural character in the Fiend, and do they want to make Black into another? I do not think so because if the WWE chooses the make Aleister Black that powerful, then what does that say about Rollins? But I agree that Black interfering moves everything forward in a good way and protects everyone and elevates Black, but after years of disappointment, I have no faith in that happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    I'm reminded of Mankind vs Rock in (I think) the empty arena match. Mankind ended up keeping Rock down through a, very corny, pin with palettes on a forklift.

    That's still one of my favourite Rock/Mankind matches, actually.

    I figure this will end in something very similar. It won't end in a 'clean' win or a clear pinfall by Rollins - it might if WWE wanted to be interesting and give The Fiend the title then have the people at Raw scramble to make a trade and get their title back. I think if they had done the draft with GMs (Heyman and Bischoff/Pritchard, for example) rather than with the network executives they might be wiling to do something like that here. But realistically I can't see them getting the people from USA Network (is it USA?) involved again on screen, and certainly not in that manner.

    Would make for an interesting Raw the Monday after, though, as behind the scenes they scramble to do a deal with Smackdown that gets their title back. Then you could close the show with The Fiend showing up and establishing his next feud.
    This would be a really good way to protect the Fiend. Having Rolling do something like this, where the Fiend is trapped, and struggling to get out, but gets counted 1-2-3.

  7. #527
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    Rollins would be the obvious choice - especially as he likely needs a bit of rehab after the HiaC debacle and can then do that on a new brand.

    That said - I'm looking at the Raw roster right now and I'm actually a little surprised by how little top level talent they have right now, even after the draft. They've got Rollins, Owens, and Orton who could be considered as main event or main event ready at the drop of a hat and then...nothing. You've got someone like Andrade or Black, who I'm sure could put great main event matches together given the chance (especially with Rollins, actually) but potentially need a little step up feud to get themselves into the scene. Joe and McIntyre who are both out injured but could certainly be considered in the same bracket as Andrade and Black, in my opinion - maybe slightly above them both, but under the first three names. You might throw Ricochet in there as an option too, I suppose. But these aren't the kind of characters that people will immediately sit up and take notice of if they're given a shot.

    It's strange. Raw is putting a lot of weight on Rollins' shoulders should he move forward with the title.

  8. #528
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    Less top level talent is exactly what I love. I won't like, I find guys at the top get stale in WWE really fast, so a brand that's leaving it wide open to new opportunities? Love it.

  9. #529
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    Oh yeah, I mean it should give them a really fresh main event scene coming up. I just never expected it when I went to look at the roster.

    I wonder if this is the impact of Fox being commanding on who they want on Smackdown, or actually more on the limited opportunities to make a name for oneself that have been offered by Lesnar's lengthy title run.

    I forgot King Corbin in that calculation above, I think. I guess he could have a claim to a main event spot.

  10. #530
    Well, with King Corbin on smackdown, I don't think he will do much against the likes of Lesner and Cain.

  11. #531
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    Ah, there's the reason why - in my head he was still on Raw.

    Speaking of which, curious show last night. Lots of establishing matches for new(er) talent, and the return of Drew McIntyre. A kind of necessary show given the draft and the above discussed need to get some new people some shine to elevate them, I think.

    Looks like we're going for Owens vs Styles at the moment for the US title, while Rollins is still a little bit in limbo until after Crown Jewel is sorted out. Love that they did Rollins vs Humberto Carillo And His Sweet Cheek Dimples in a competitive match.

  12. #532
    Look. I know Crown Jewel is in less than 2 weeks and GOD FORBID the women are able to perform there, but they weren't showcase d at all last night why?? 3 hours for Raw and they couldn't make the time for them to be on.

    Also, hold up. Aren't Ziggler and Roode now on Smackdown? Why were they on Raw last night??

  13. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeLostInRewind View Post

    Also, hold up. Aren't Ziggler and Roode now on Smackdown? Why were they on Raw last night??
    I didn't see them on Raw last night so double checked and nope not on Raw. Did you mistake them for Hawkins and Ryder?

  14. #534
    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    I didn't see them on Raw last night so double checked and nope not on Raw. Did you mistake them for Hawkins and Ryder?
    Possibly, yes. I should probably not read results when I'm super tired. I can't even defend this...

  15. #535
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    i fast forward alot during raw but i knew they didn't have a match so i was thinking you saw them backstage but no.

  16. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeLostInRewind View Post
    Look. I know Crown Jewel is in less than 2 weeks and GOD FORBID the women are able to perform there, but they weren't showcase d at all last night why?? 3 hours for Raw and they couldn't make the time for them to be on.
    The same thing happens with pretty much everyone one of these Saudi shows, if I remember rightly. The only exception is probably Crown Jewel last year, because the weekend before they put the Evolution PPV on to try and placate fans that were pissed about the Saudi shows. But, if memory serves, the women's roles on TV always get reduced in the run up to these shows.

    Thing is, they have a month to build up to Survivor Series after Crown Jewel - so in a way I can get their thinking that they don't need to do anything until after next Thursday to start building to that PPV.

  17. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    A kind of necessary show given the draft and the above discussed need to get some new people some shine to elevate them, I think.
    I disagree. I think some of the steps they took were necessary, but Raw dragged very similarly to how NXT disappointed last week. Establishing matches are a necessary evil, but too many of them in a row is hard to sit through. Kevin Owens as the "shock" at the end likely wasn't worth keeping him out of the ring (unless he or AJ weren't cleared, for some reason).

    I would judge this show as a major misstep, but it was a reduced roster, and likely tough to work around. That said, I feel like I've made/seen excuses for the poor shows over the last 3 weeks. The Heyman Takeover seemed to create some good TV, but since the Premiere week, there's been very little sign of that same positives. It still felt like a non-Vince show, as they seemed to be taking their time to elevate the new Raw talent. As separate segments, most of Raw was good. But the way it was arranged, it just felt longer than it should have.

    Quote Originally Posted by LifeLostInRewind View Post
    Possibly, yes. I should probably not read results when I'm super tired. I can't even defend this...
    Depending on written recaps is a horrible way to judge a show. The one Ziggler/Roode thing we saw was a replay of how the Raiders won the titles.

    Quote Originally Posted by LifeLostInRewind View Post
    Look. I know Crown Jewel is in less than 2 weeks and GOD FORBID the women are able to perform there, but they weren't showcase d at all last night why?? 3 hours for Raw and they couldn't make the time for them to be on.
    Apparently they were in Australia for promotion with the Smackdown tour.

  18. #538
    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    I disagree. I think some of the steps they took were necessary, but Raw dragged very similarly to how NXT disappointed last week. Establishing matches are a necessary evil, but too many of them in a row is hard to sit through. Kevin Owens as the "shock" at the end likely wasn't worth keeping him out of the ring (unless he or AJ weren't cleared, for some reason).

    I would judge this show as a major misstep, but it was a reduced roster, and likely tough to work around. That said, I feel like I've made/seen excuses for the poor shows over the last 3 weeks. The Heyman Takeover seemed to create some good TV, but since the Premiere week, there's been very little sign of that same positives. It still felt like a non-Vince show, as they seemed to be taking their time to elevate the new Raw talent. As separate segments, most of Raw was good. But the way it was arranged, it just felt longer than it should have.


    Depending on written recaps is a horrible way to judge a show. The one Ziggler/Roode thing we saw was a replay of how the Raiders won the titles.



    Apparently they were in Australia for promotion with the Smackdown tour.
    When I said "I can't even defend this", I meant my blunder (Not sure if you thought I meant the show itself).

    The question has to be asked, though. Is Cain suppose to be a smackdown guy, or raw?

  19. #539
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    I don't remember him being drafted so maybe he's a free agent right now.

  20. #540
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    Anyone else getting a laugh out of the WWE 2K game glitches? Reminds me of the awesome videos I once found with UFC game glitches with fake commentary from a "Joe Rogan" and "Mike Goldberg" type





    Last edited by PEN15v2; 4 Weeks Ago at 03:59 PM.

  21. #541
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    Seems WWE 2K20 is getting some pretty serious backlash, from what I've seen.

    Meanwhile, Sonya Deville is dope as shit:

    https://twitter.com/SonyaDevilleWWE/...82596024324097

  22. #542

  23. #543
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    I can't get twitter feeds at work, can anyone post that Sonya thing not from twitter?

  24. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    Damn, that was awesome. Was the only on Twitter? I hope that was on TV.
    I assume it's on TV as well, or at least on a backstage fallout bit.

    Powder, here's the best transcript I can find. Names in brackets weren't spoken, FYI:

    The women's division is the best its ever been. From NXT to Raw to SmackDown, the caliber of athlete here is the highest its ever been. You have the 10-time women's champion whose dad worked for the company for like 40 years (Charlotte Flair), you have the beautiful blonde pinup who can't wait to run home and make her husband a sandwich (Lacey Evans), you have the one with pigtails that dresses up as characters and that's why everybody loves her (Alexa Bliss). And then you have the two that cry on the floor when they don't get their way (Sasha Banks and Bayley, allegedly), and then you have the one with the cat ears (Natalya).

    Then you have the one, the pinnacle of the women's division, the one who brought us to the main event of WrestleMania. The one who is so strong she had to call herself 'The Man' to get noticed. And I can't wait to face The Man. And when I do, I'm going to make her my son. And then she's gonna have to call me Daddy.

  25. #545
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    Holy shit that is awesome!

    The WWE better use this and push Sonya.

  26. #546
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    Sorry for the double post, but I am completely changing gears here.

    A question to everyone, where all of you probably will know more of the legality here:

    I know that the WWE trademarks names and nicknames for their performers, but can they trademark a catchphrase?

    For instance if in the spring of 2020, if the Revival chooses to not re-sign with the WWE and sign with AEW, WWE obviously has the name 'The Revival' tradmarked and probably 'Top Guys' tradmarked as well. But can the WWE also trademark 'No flips, just fists'?

    Or can Jericho use any of his past catchphrases? "You just made the list!", or "Do You Understand What I'm Saying To You Right Now?", or "Ayatollah Of Rock & Rolla", or "Gonna' Get...It", or "Best In The World At What I Do", or "You Will Never, Ever Be The Same Again", "Drink It In, Man", or "Jerichoholics".

    Sorry got a little carried away.

  27. #547
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    You can trademark a catchphrase, yeah.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  28. #548
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    Well then that sucks. I would love for what ever the Revival would be called (probably their real names) in AEW to say that they are "No flips, just fists" against any team in AEW where they all are flips, and a lot of flips.

  29. #549
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    So, the name Revival would be trademarked. I doubt Top Guys is, though. Dash and Dawson's names would also be trademarked.

    No flips, just fists and Jericho's catchphrases could be trademarked if WWE really wanted to, but I doubt any of them are just based on the fleeting nature of them.

    Now, the No Flips, Just Fists logo would fall under copyright because it's a creative work by WWE, and without actively having it copyrighted they've used it in commerce so AEW couldn't just use it. Trying to create something too close to that logo might backfire on them, too.

    However, they could walk into AEW as Dash Wheeler and Dave Dawson, The Renewal wearing t-shirts that say All Fists, No Flips and likely be fine.

  30. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    So, the name Revival would be trademarked. I doubt Top Guys is, though. Dash and Dawson's names would also be trademarked.

    No flips, just fists and Jericho's catchphrases could be trademarked if WWE really wanted to, but I doubt any of them are just based on the fleeting nature of them.

    Now, the No Flips, Just Fists logo would fall under copyright because it's a creative work by WWE, and without actively having it copyrighted they've used it in commerce so AEW couldn't just use it. Trying to create something too close to that logo might backfire on them, too.
    Thanks, that really does clear this up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    However, they could walk into AEW as Dash Wheeler and Dave Dawson, The Renewal wearing t-shirts that say All Fists, No Flips and likely be fine.
    And someone who has a memory that is better than mine needs to remember this. Because if the Revival does leave, and this happens. Coach, you need to get your royalty check.

    But The Renewal, All Fists, No Flips isn't close enough to violate a trademark though?
    Last edited by Powder; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:20 PM.

  31. #551
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    Unless WWE were feeling particularly vindictive and wanted to take a chance on an 'idiot in a hurry' style lawsuit, yeah. We've seen plenty of times how often wrestlers tweak a name or phrase and carry on doing a similar act.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  32. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    Unless WWE were feeling particularly vindictive and wanted to take a chance on an 'idiot in a hurry' style lawsuit, yeah. We've seen plenty of times how often wrestlers tweak a name or phrase and carry on doing a similar act.
    I just edited my post with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    But The Renewal, All Fists, No Flips isn't close enough to violate a trademark though?
    And isn't that the point of Ric Flair's 'The Man' trademark suit or inquiry?

    And I can't think of someone whose name was tweaked in that manner besides the Dudley's, but ECW was at least partly owned by Vince by then, so it didn't matter.

    Maybe Raven's Nest vs Raven's Flock?
    Last edited by Powder; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:24 PM.

  33. #553
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    If you're asking could WWE challenge on that, then I repeat, it depends on how vindictive they are feeling. If you are asking whether or not they would win, then you will have to ask a lawyer.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  34. #554
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    I guess that was my initial point. I'm sure the WWE could and would be that frivolous, but I have no idea if they would win either. Any lawyers on these here forums?

  35. #555
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    I dont think it would matter if they could win. Just taking that to court is a nonstarter unless the Revival for example is able to shoulder lawyer fees. They would likely find a solution to settle

  36. #556
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    Anybody catch Jordan Myles going off on WWE, Vince, and Triple H for a racist t-shirt design this weekend?

  37. #557
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    Yep, he laid into 'em. That shirt was taken down very quickly.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  38. #558
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    Sorry for the double post, but that Smackdown rating really fell off a cliff, huh?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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    Remarkable - the lowest Smackdown audience ever by some 50% (888k compared to 1.6m, I read).

    Don't know how much of that was due to the televised competition on Fox itself, and how much was due to the channel switch. Guess it could be a bit of both.

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    SD has been average at best since the move to Fox. We can't ignore that.

    Also, even if AEW isn't beating WWE in the ratings, I'm sure it's drawn some fans who prefer their show than WWE at this point, so they moved over completely.

    Lots of factors. Quality, channel change. competition on Fox, wrestling competition elsewhere.

    WWE isn't in danger, and a one week blip isn't really a cause for concern. But if next Friday it less than 2 mil... then it's time to panic. And we are only a month in.

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