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  1. #681
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Now that you mention it, yes I remember, and that was even worse. Again Vince being completely out of touch.

  2. #682
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    I am sorry all, that is just bullshit.

    The WWE has made it a point to move away from the "Divas Division" and to be an actual wrestling division with real story lines, and real wrestling feuds. By having Mandy Rose come out and say that she "I am beautiful, and Nikki Cross is just ugly" is utterly pathetic, especially in 2019.

    You do not hear the top 5 women ever calling out each other by their looks, do you? Never once do you hear Becky, Sasha, Charlotte, Bayley, or Bliss ever insult another competitor because of their looks. They all have legit wrestling beef with them. For that matter do you ever hear any male wrestler call someone out because he is not as good looking as them? The days of The Model Rick Martel and Rick Rude are long gone.

    Why couldn't Mandy come out and simple call out Nikki by saying that the only reason she is a tag champ because she is riding the coattails of Alexa Bliss, or something to that extent. But no, Vince has a hard on for Mandy Rose because of her looks and has to set women's wrestling back 10+ years.

    If the WWE wants to keep a Women's Revolution going, then you cannot have that type of bullshit go on.
    Oh piss off. The days of Rick Rude or Martel are not over, there's just nobody doing that gimmick right now. I mean, Rhett Titus is pretty close in ROH, but Titus is no Rude. You sign a guy with a six pack and have him start talking about how much better looking he is than the fat, out of shape, black t-shirt neckbeards in the audience and give him a different model every week to hang off of him and that's fucking heel gold in 2019.

    Mandy is basically the female Rick Martel. That's her gimmick. It's right up her alley to call Nikki ugly. If Natalya or Asuka pulled out the same line, I'd probably cock an eyebrow and figure that was some bad writing, but it's completely in keeping with Mandy's character. Stop trying to virtue signal. The women's division doesn't need protecting.

    Going against the grain of what's considered moral and "good" is how heels have gotten heat since the bible. What's "offensive" has gotten so easy in 2019, it's almost the best imaginable way to get legitimate heat these days. Get heat on Ricochet by having him question how much of a "man" someone is. Take the low road because that's what heels do.

  3. #683
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    Did you watch any of the Alexa/Nia storyline when Bliss was fat shaming Nia? Because that's pretty recent history.
    Fine example, and made me think of a bunch of others over the years. Wendi Richter telling Moolah she was too ugly to advertise dog food, commentators routinely commenting on the looks of Alundra/Nakano ("Alundra Blayze, with her looks she could be in westerns... if she had two more legs"), Sable's entire heel turn in 1999, Trish suggesting that Molly's problem with her and others was because she had a big ass....

    I reckon if you put half an hour's research in you could come up with about a hundred examples.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  4. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    Going against the grain of what's considered moral and "good" is how heels have gotten heat since the bible. What's "offensive" has gotten so easy in 2019, it's almost the best imaginable way to get legitimate heat these days. Get heat on Ricochet by having him question how much of a "man" someone is. Take the low road because that's what heels do.

    Yes but that doesn't always work. I distinctly recall Jinder Mahal had a few moments in his feud with Shinsuke Nakamura not too long ago that pushed the envelope and the only thing it accomplished was getting the company heat from the fans and shutting people off to the angle. Like everything else it all depends on the booker and the performer reading the audience and knowing what lines to and not to cross. The best example of this on both sides of the coin to me is Sam Adonis, Corey Graves' brother. Sam wrestled for CMLL for a little less than three years (August 2016- April 2018) and after initially not getting over as a cocky pretty boy took on the persona of a Donald Trump supporter; he came out with Trump airbrushed on his tights and an American Flag with Trump's head on it. CMLL ran with it while not going beyond that package and as a result Sam not only got over as one of CMLL's biggest heels but ended up in two really strong hair vs. hair programs with Blue Panther and Negro Casas. It wasn't what I'd call subtle but it was played up enough that it got huge heat and most importantly it did it all without going too far. Unfortunately Sam didn't learn that lesson when he went to Revolution Pro in the UK and decided to hurl homophobic slurs at the audience on his first night out for no reason other than to get cheap heat. That was too over the top and it cost him a job there.

    I will also say that while taking the low road can be successful and can get you heat if you do it right, it's not the best way to get heat. The best way to get heat if you're a heel is, quite frankly, to tell the truth and shove it in the audience's face. Two of the best heel runs in WWE over the last two decades was CM Punk's Straight Edge Society run and Chris Jericho's sociopath phase and in each case neither resorted to going the low road. In fact both guys reasons for turning on their respective rivals, Jeff Hardy and Shawn Michaels, were legit; Jeff Hardy was a screw up and Shawn Michaels did fake an injury to steal a win on Batista. But they got heat because a) they either came across as whiners (Jericho) or morally superior hardliners (Punk) and b) fans loved Hardy and Michaels and doubled down on supporting them/disliking Punk/Jericho because they deep down knew those guys were right and were furious over it. I don't know if there's just not enough performers these days who can pull that sort of thing off, if workers just find it easier to go the cheap heat route or if workers are just more obsessed with being "cool" heels these days (which is definitely a problem) but there needs to be more guys like that. Punk and Jericho got more memorable heat during those runs than I can remember for any heels recently and while I certainly think there's a place for getting heat by going low, getting heat by going high hasn't been tried as much as it could be.


  5. #685
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    Yes but that doesn't always work. I distinctly recall Jinder Mahal had a few moments in his feud with Shinsuke Nakamura not too long ago that pushed the envelope and the only thing it accomplished was getting the company heat from the fans and shutting people off to the angle.
    Fans had already decided that anything Jinder was involved with was bad well before that. It was also a pretty big departure from Jinder's normal character. He wasn't typically cracking wise, which is really what he was doing offensively to Nakamura. I'll bet if it Gallows dropped the same line, it would have gotten heat.

    I will also say that while taking the low road can be successful and can get you heat if you do it right, it's not the best way to get heat. The best way to get heat if you're a heel is, quite frankly, to tell the truth and shove it in the audience's face.
    I disagree with this completely. That works for some heels, but there isn't always a "truth" to tell. To use Powder's example, accusing Nikki Cross of riding Alexa's coattails would be silly, since it's been Alexa using Nikki from square one.

    Meanwhile, the girl who's gimmick is "hot" telling her that she's ugly, that's going to cut to the core of someone. There's going to be a lot of women and girls in the audience that can relate to exactly that situation.

  6. #686
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    I am sorry all, that is just bullshit.

    The WWE has made it a point to move away from the "Divas Division" and to be an actual wrestling division with real story lines, and real wrestling feuds. By having Mandy Rose come out and say that she "I am beautiful, and Nikki Cross is just ugly" is utterly pathetic, especially in 2019.

    You do not hear the top 5 women ever calling out each other by their looks, do you? Never once do you hear Becky, Sasha, Charlotte, Bayley, or Bliss ever insult another competitor because of their looks. They all have legit wrestling beef with them. For that matter do you ever hear any male wrestler call someone out because he is not as good looking as them? The days of The Model Rick Martel and Rick Rude are long gone.

    Why couldn't Mandy come out and simple call out Nikki by saying that the only reason she is a tag champ because she is riding the coattails of Alexa Bliss, or something to that extent. But no, Vince has a hard on for Mandy Rose because of her looks and has to set women's wrestling back 10+ years.

    If the WWE wants to keep a Women's Revolution going, then you cannot have that type of bullshit go on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    And you cannot compare wrestling to Friends. They are apples and oranges. Yes both are scripted, and both are TV shows with plots, but Friends and the like do not try to play off that it is real, like wrestling does. Wrestling is a TV show that wants it fans to believe that it is a real competition, which is completely different that normal shows that just are entertainment.
    I don't see how the "real competition" part changes anything. These are characters playing their roles. Mandy is the role of a beautiful but obnoxious bitch, and she was delivering that yesterday. Nia Jax was never more over as a face then when she destroyed Alexa for her fat shaming. When played right, the heel will get their comeuppance, and the face gets more over.

    Now, you don't have to like it. It's fine if you find it tasteless. There are things in all wrestling that makes me cringe. But I also understand that not every decision on every single show is meant for my individual tastes. So if something bothers me, the choice is mine to make: keep watching, or don't. Vince doesn't have to change anything, but you might be best to change the channel.

  7. #687
    Transgender Terror
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    Like me! I changed the channel months ago, and won't change back for at least another 9 years.

  8. #688
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    When are we having our match?


  9. #689
    Transgender Terror
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    Parking lot brawl at Road Wild.

  10. #690
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    Don't heels almost all the time make fun of KO and how much he eats? I remember distinctly Ziggler commenting how KO puts away hot dogs.

  11. #691
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    It's a typical SJW double standard, where the men can be juvenile with insults to each other, but women can't.

  12. #692
    Transgender Terror
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    So I can't insult Iken any more?

  13. #693
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    The numbers don't like, and they spell disaster for you at the Road Wild T.O.!


  14. #694
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    Iken doesn't count as human, so none of these rules apply.

  15. #695
    Transgender Terror
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    Which is he, a punk, a sucka, a punkass sucka, or a pussyass punk sucka?

  16. #696
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    Et tu, Pen? Et tu?!


  17. #697
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    Iken has, I'm sad to say, been terminated long ago - however, their brain lives on in the stomach of the Steinerbot, not unlike Krang in the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. It is through the Steinerbot that they now communicate, although repressing the carnal rush of Steiner is sometimes too much for them and they have to let Big Poppa Pump come out.

  18. #698
    Transgender Terror
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    But I have the controls to the Steinerbot in my possession.

    ...

    Didn't we used to talk wrestling here?

  19. #699
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    Wrestling is for nerds.

    Control of the Steinerbot is up for grabs in the Iken vs T.O match at LOP Forums present Fall Festival.

  20. #700
    Transgender Terror
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    I'll just OD him on my hormone meds. A high dosage without any tolerance will give him blood clots, dizziness, and nausea.

    Easy W.

  21. #701
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    The LOP Fall Festival? Psh; T.O. and I are too big for that. We will collide at the CMLL 86th Aniversario in a hair vs. hair match. But it won't be our hair; I will defend Coach's hair and T.O. will defend Pen's hair. Robot Randy will T.O.'s second, Gran Metalik will be my second and Kevin "remember when I was cool in 2015?" Owens will be the referee.


  22. #702
    Transgender Terror
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    Ain't no way I'd put my hair on the line. It's my pride and joy.

  23. #703
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    That's why Pen's hair is on the line instead.


  24. #704
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    I discovered my thinning spot a few months ago, so I'll have to put extensions in, like Dr Wagner. It sadly makes the result predictable, which Icon knows full well... He's a devious one

  25. #705
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    You know what they say...you're either dirty, or you're in the dirt.


  26. #706
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    Why can’t you be dirty because you’re in the dirt?

  27. #707
    Transgender Terror
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    Iken was born dirty, because his momma's a moocow. Roflmao and such.

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