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  1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    Psh; you think this is spamming/hijacking a thread? Back in the glory days of this place, when Powder was just a young lad dreaming of WWE pulling of the wrestling equivalent of the Superman: Red Son comic, T.O., myself and the late PEN15 used to do gif threads when the shows sucked. Then Pen died and went to civilization, T.O. went off to roam the world in the Steinerbot and thus here we are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    He was a great hero. Who knows where he went or if he will ever return. All we can do is just hope.
    I do feel more civilized. (Thanks Right Guard/Charles Barkley)
    I doubt I'll be GIFing anytime though. One lesson I've learned since I was last here is to stay off boards and wrestling news sites while watching the shows. I'll enjoy them much more without being distracted or surrounded by the online negativity.

  2. #602
    I feel that the main roster shows had some minor changes this week. Things moved faster overall. The opening Raw segment was the best example of it. Instead of the standard 20 minute promo, lots of people were involved, and it moved at a quick paced into the first match. I really enjoyed that. The show didn't keep that pace or quality, unfortunately, but it woke me up as a viewer to pay more attention right from the credits. Miz had the good promo about Shane on SD also that reflected many online complaints.

    I wouldn't say either show was good, but they no longer below average. Some highlights, some downfalls, but it averaged out to a standard show. That's oddly an improvement in 2019.

  3. #603
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    So, I pulled myself through Stomping Grounds. A few questions/thoughts:

    1. Lacey Evans - where does she go from here? She is clearly not on Becky's level in the ring and has now lost two on the bounce to her. Does that do her significant damage? Where do they rebuild her from?
    2. MR SMALL PACKAGE
    3. I like Alexa. I LOVE Bayley. Why are they so bad together as to make the match unwatchable for me?
    4. Is Kofi's current issue that he's being booked against Ziggler and that's not a fun combination for anyone that's watcher any of their other 37 matches in WWE, or is KofiMania already running out of steam?
    5. Holy shit the last four matches were dire. Not even in a smarky way, just in a 'this isn't good wrestling or entertainment' way. Shockingly bad.
    6. Why can't Drew McIntyre - a literal giant human - and Roman Reigns - a literal giant human - just throw bombs at each other for 15 minutes until one can't stand up anymore? I'm not there for watching those two do Steamboat/Savage or anything technical on the mat, I want to see them doing Ishii vs Suzuki stuff and just mauling each other.
    7. Big E is still my motherfucker and I am waiting for the moment he takes off and becomes the face of the company.

  4. #604
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    Lacey Evans - where does she go from here? She is clearly not on Becky's level in the ring and has now lost two on the bounce to her. Does that do her significant damage? Where do they rebuild her from?
    Based on how the show ended and how the announcers continuously kept on hyping the whole Becky / Seth couple thing, it looks like we'll be looking at a few mixed tag matches coming up next. It's not something I want the current champs of their respective Raw rosters to be mixed in so I hope I'm wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    Is Kofi's current issue that he's being booked against Ziggler and that's not a fun combination for anyone that's watcher any of their other 37 matches in WWE, or is KofiMania already running out of steam?
    KofiMania was built on him being the underdog and never being able to win big matches. He's having good matches but the emotion of the months leading to Wrestlemania is pretty much impossible to rekindle. There's also no one right now who could fit the role Daniel Bryan played to make me feel like he's in danger of losing. I feel the rest of his title reign is just going to be average at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    Why can't Drew McIntyre - a literal giant human - and Roman Reigns - a literal giant human - just throw bombs at each other for 15 minutes until one can't stand up anymore? I'm not there for watching those two do Steamboat/Savage or anything technical on the mat, I want to see them doing Ishii vs Suzuki stuff and just mauling each other.
    I never thought of that but holy crap do I want to see it now, although I'm really done with this whole feud already because it's doing McIntyre no favors whatsoever. Who knew that in this program the person with almost nothing to show out of it would be McIntyre? What a waste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    Big E is still my motherfucker and I am waiting for the moment he takes off and becomes the face of the company.
    I'm with you there. But after watching this week's Smackdown and their match today, Xavier Woods right now might be the most underrated pro wrestler in the whole WWE right now. We know he's great on the mic, but whenever that dude gets a chance to actually wrestle he does a spectacular job.

    I was so mixed about this whole show. There were plenty of "WTF are they doing?" moments for me, but there were some good things to take away. Drew Gulak winning the Cruiserweight Championship was awesome to see. Heavy Machinery really won me over, especially Otis - I want to see more of them on screen.

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by Degenerate View Post
    I never thought of that but holy crap do I want to see it now, although I'm really done with this whole feud already because it's doing McIntyre no favors whatsoever. Who knew that in this program the person with almost nothing to show out of it would be McIntyre? What a waste.
    It doesn't make any sense, does it? Drew lost to Reigns at Mania, to set up Reigns losing to Shane at [Redacted], so that Reigns could beat Drew again even with a load of outside help. Really peculiar. A shame, because I think Drew could, and should, be in the Baron Corbin role right now of challenging Seth for the title.

    Also - I cannot put into words how much I want that from a Drew/Roman match. I think it would bring a really different feel to a WWE match to just have something like that every so often, and it would really pop. Plus - as I said, giant humans. We know Roman can kind of work a bit like that from the Brock matches, I'm sure Drew could. Just have them beat the tar out of each other for a bit.

  6. #606
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    So, I pulled myself through Stomping Grounds. A few questions/thoughts:

    1. Lacey Evans - where does she go from here? She is clearly not on Becky's level in the ring and has now lost two on the bounce to her. Does that do her significant damage? Where do they rebuild her from?
    Yeah, I don't think there's any damage done to her. I didn't think she was bad in the ring, though. Her shit was on for the most part, and she seemed to be listening to Becky. She's just got inexperience to overcome.

    4. Is Kofi's current issue that he's being booked against Ziggler and that's not a fun combination for anyone that's watcher any of their other 37 matches in WWE, or is KofiMania already running out of steam?
    Ziggler's unwatchable right now. This who "it should have been me" thing sucks. What does that even mean? This this is all a work and it should have been him chosen to win the WWE Title at WrestleMania? The fans should have gotten behind him instead when he wasn't even around?

    6. Why can't Drew McIntyre - a literal giant human - and Roman Reigns - a literal giant human - just throw bombs at each other for 15 minutes until one can't stand up anymore? I'm not there for watching those two do Steamboat/Savage or anything technical on the mat, I want to see them doing Ishii vs Suzuki stuff and just mauling each other.
    It's the WWE style. I'd love to see that too, but in the WWE style everyone does the same stuff and wrestles roughly the same way. Drew was cutting promos about how he was going to disfigure Roman Reigns. He wasn't exactly wrestling like that was his goal. Reigns didn't come out to defend his family's honour against the guy who said he was going to make his kids cry at the sight of him.

    5. Holy shit the last four matches were dire. Not even in a smarky way, just in a 'this isn't good wrestling or entertainment' way. Shockingly bad.
    See, I couldn't disagree harder. Alexa vs Bayley was far from perfect, but I enjoyed it quite a bit. It was nothing groundbreaking, but it was a midcard PPV match.

    The cage was fun, if nothing else. It had a very "Kofi" finish. Roman vs Drew was okay in a vacuum but not so much once you factor in the amount of heat these two guys supposedly have.

    That main event was a perfect example of everything that I hate about modern wrestling fans. At no point were they trying to have a five star Meltzer classic. This match was all storytelling from minute one. And the fans shit aaaaallllll over it -- chanting for AEW, CM Punk and "this is stupid" -- until suddenly they didn't anymore. Suddenly, like someone flipped a switch, Lacey had enough heat that they were all into it an chanting for Becky to come hand Lacey her ass. Suddenly they were chanting along with Seth's "Burn It Down" to rally behind him after he'd been fucked for the third or fourth time. They chanted for Becky when Lacey first came out, I noticed that, but it went away completely and turned to shitting on the match until she'd jerked Rollins around enough that the fans finally bought in.

    "Smart", or modern, wrestling fans are sooooooo smart. Until they aren't anymore. That match had Lacey Evans and Baron Corbin so they didn't even give it a chance and crapped all over it from moment one until Lacey, being a pretty good heel, got enough heat that they stopped trying to get themselves over and started to hate her.

  7. #607
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    The main problem with the main event was that it was Baron Corbin again. I know I named the thread for him, the “Surprisngly Not Awful” , but somewhere in the past 7-8 months, he became awful. He has no business in the main event. He is just no where near a main event caliber guy.

  8. #608
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    See, the main event specifically, Coach - I get what they were doing with it, and it worked, but I don't think anything outside of the story was actually good wrestling. Maybe that's my fault for wanting that in a main event spot, rather than something that tells a story, but is it so bad to want both?

    The very best version of that main event was done over 20 years ago, and it had both things:



    (I bloody love that match. It might be the best 'Sports Entertainment' match WWE has ever done.)

  9. #609
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    From an outsider's perspective I wonder if it's less about the match not being 5 stars and more just people being sick of the heel referee thing. Not only has that been done to death but can anyone actually point out a time in recent memory when that actually worked anywhere? I know it's not as common in the US as it is in say Mexico, where it is prevalent and still somehow over, but even there it's pretty much run its course. I'm sure Coach will argue people would've shit all over the match regardless of the stip, but my guess is the reaction last night wasn't so much about the match quality (or even Baron Corbin) but about the match featuring a tired trope that fans are sick of.


  10. #610
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    I don't remember the last time I even saw a heel special referee match?

    What makes me think it was just fans shitting on it because it featured Corbin and Lacey -- and would have either way even if it had been the second coming of Flair-Steamboat -- is that when they got over themselves and got it out of their systems, they bought in. They went from "this is boring" to actually booing Lacey and chanting for Becky when she did heel shit (as opposed to drowning out the match with it like they did when she first stepped out as the ref). They started rallying behind Rollins and popped pretty hard for the face-off between he and Lacey at the end when he'd had enough of her shit.

    It wasn't the match. It wasn't people being tired of a played out trope. It was modern fans thinking that they're smarter than they are and disliking two people because the internet told them that they're not good.

    Don't get me wrong, it wasn't a perfect match. But what was done was executed well and looked convincing, and the fans started to buy in to the heel ref stuff. It probably should have been swapped with the cage. I think they hoped that the image of Becky and Seth closing the show was going to be stronger than it wound up being...but they seemed a little awkward and uncomfortable, like they didn't want their relationship being a TV thing. At the end of the day, though, if that match had been semi main and Kofi vs Ziggler had closed the show with the big babyface win and The New Day celebrating to close things out, it probably would have come off better.

  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    So, I pulled myself through Stomping Grounds. A few questions/thoughts:

    1. Lacey Evans - where does she go from here? She is clearly not on Becky's level in the ring and has now lost two on the bounce to her. Does that do her significant damage? Where do they rebuild her from?
    2. MR SMALL PACKAGE
    3. I like Alexa. I LOVE Bayley. Why are they so bad together as to make the match unwatchable for me?
    4. Is Kofi's current issue that he's being booked against Ziggler and that's not a fun combination for anyone that's watcher any of their other 37 matches in WWE, or is KofiMania already running out of steam?
    5. Holy shit the last four matches were dire. Not even in a smarky way, just in a 'this isn't good wrestling or entertainment' way. Shockingly bad.
    6. Why can't Drew McIntyre - a literal giant human - and Roman Reigns - a literal giant human - just throw bombs at each other for 15 minutes until one can't stand up anymore? I'm not there for watching those two do Steamboat/Savage or anything technical on the mat, I want to see them doing Ishii vs Suzuki stuff and just mauling each other.
    7. Big E is still my motherfucker and I am waiting for the moment he takes off and becomes the face of the company.
    Lacey will be fine. I don't like how often WWE pushes people to a top chalenger spot to get them established, because the final result is most often midcarder for life. But, Lacey as a midcard heel for a while, and then a heroic face turn will be huge if done right. Her Marine background will be uberface material in the US, and Vince won't lose the chance to get that rocket to her when it's time.

    Alexa is one of the best character workers in WWE today, but isn't ever going to be a master ring general. That's not her role. The flaw in this one was letting it go as long as it did. Alexa is weaker in the ring, so extending her time in control (as is the job of a heel) will always drop the work quality down. BUT, the story involving Nikki was the true focus, and Alexa did her role perfectly.

    WWE has a main event of midcarders. They could be main event stars, but they've been booked in the midcard for so long that just putting the title in the mix doesn't change anything. On Smackdown, the roster is even more limited, as he's already beaten Bryan and Owens clean, 2 former champs. Now Ziggler who is also a former champ. And unlike COACH, I love Ziggler's character right now. The problem is that while he's nailing it, there's still no risk of him losing the title. KofiMania will be in full effect once RKO is in the scene.

    100% on Big E. I think WWE dropped the ball by giving Kofi the title run out of the New Day. I know why they did, and it's worked for sure. But Big E is such a natural star, and it feels like a missed opportunity.


    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    It's the WWE style. I'd love to see that too, but in the WWE style everyone does the same stuff and wrestles roughly the same way. Drew was cutting promos about how he was going to disfigure Roman Reigns. He wasn't exactly wrestling like that was his goal. Reigns didn't come out to defend his family's honour against the guy who said he was going to make his kids cry at the sight of him.

    That main event was a perfect example of everything that I hate about modern wrestling fans. At no point were they trying to have a five star Meltzer classic. This match was all storytelling from minute one. And the fans shit aaaaallllll over it -- chanting for AEW, CM Punk and "this is stupid" -- until suddenly they didn't anymore. Suddenly, like someone flipped a switch, Lacey had enough heat that they were all into it an chanting for Becky to come hand Lacey her ass. Suddenly they were chanting along with Seth's "Burn It Down" to rally behind him after he'd been fucked for the third or fourth time. They chanted for Becky when Lacey first came out, I noticed that, but it went away completely and turned to shitting on the match until she'd jerked Rollins around enough that the fans finally bought in.

    "Smart", or modern, wrestling fans are sooooooo smart. Until they aren't anymore. That match had Lacey Evans and Baron Corbin so they didn't even give it a chance and crapped all over it from moment one until Lacey, being a pretty good heel, got enough heat that they stopped trying to get themselves over and started to hate her.
    Concerning WWE style, what frustrates me the most is that they have booked that kind of match with Brock. Brock is just about short matches with nothing but bombs thrown his way, be it vs Goldberg or Roman. And the crowd would eat it up for sure.

    Agreed on the main event. Every match needs to be a Meltzer 5 star classic, but that's not what Vince has ever been about. Ever. Sure, have a great match, but priority is the story. I'm not telling you what the right way to go is, but expecting WWE to deliver Okada vs Omega is your own damn fault at this point. If you didn't care for the story, then that's a different story. But too many fans go into a match or story with only one story being in mind, and the minute the WWE goes a different direction than that preconceived notion, it's an utter failure.

    Coincidentally, I was thinking during Stomping Grounds how WWE has never had a true wrestling face couple. There's been Cena and Nikki, or Savage and Liz. But never a couple who deserved to be the top champ in their divisions as a couple. There's some fresh ground to cover. And then, Corbin announces Lacey, and I was pleasantly surprised. Great turn in the story, and so many of the moving parts clicked.

    I think where WWE dropped the ball is making the match the main event of a PPV. While I long for the days that main events weren't meant to be all time classics, it's going to be a tougher sell to today's fans. Had this been in the middle of the show, it wouldn't have been booed or ruined by fans like it was. Corbin is great in his role, but he's not the wrestler fans expect. As wrong as fans expectations are, WWE have helped form those expectations, so I don't fully blame the fans for being upset.

    I saw this match as a mix of the Austin vs Foley match mentioned earlier, and Mania 4's final when we were just waiting for Liz to get Hogan. This time we were waiting for Becky. I think they made the fans wait too long.


    Fun show overall. 6.5/10

  12. #612
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    I didn’t watch the show, not interested in the stories WWE is trying to tell right now but I think part of crowd reaction to the main event was thinking a huge name would be special referee. Given Seth destroying any guy that even talked to Corbin, I thought for sure Brock would be the ref. Story is right there. He can do whatever he wants as ref and then pick the bones.

    In hindsight, it does make sort of sense with Lacey because Seth isn’t going to attack a ‘lady’ but if I was at the arena, I would have groaned as well. In part because I want Lacey to move on from Becky and down to face Alexa and Nikki

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