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  1. #241
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    I don't think there's a red line, nor do I think banning this or that is the answer. There are some moves that maybe shouldn't be done. But who's enforcing that?

    Everyone is trying for that 55 star match, because it's what fans have demanded and come to expect from big shows. They feel like they have to top themselves, or the match that came before them, so they are taking stupider and stupider risks.

    It's almost like there were vets 15 years ago warning that eventually fans would come to expect you to top yourself every time. We're in an era today where Adam Cole give Johnny Gargano a destroyer on the floor and it's not the finish. What's next? Off the apron through a table?

    If you're Ricochet or Ospreay and can do a standing back flip over the top to the floor and stick the landing every single time, then by all means please do it. It's incredible to watch. (Until the 999th out of 1,000 times where you snap your ankle.) But now everyone is expected to keep up that level of athleticism.

    So Naito and Ibushi go out there and do what's expected of them...but because they had some rough landings, the fans eat them up.

    So I ask again: what the fuck do people want?

    Cody said on Twitter not too long ago that in today's era you'd better be able to do all of Ospreay's shit, or cut a promo like Dusty in order to make it. So everyone now is just looking to be that next insane spot that goes viral so they have a chance.

    Have we finally actually gone too far in fan expectation? How many apron germans before Ibushi is paralyzed? It didn't happen this time, but it only takes one.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macho Mourn View Post
    Yeah... the game that's been upped in terms of high spots concerns me.

    Like, Dragon Lee/Ospreay get a pass because they're smaller in terms of size and popularity?

    Kota/Naito have been slowly upping the danger level over their encounters. They also have the utmost trust in one another. To me, it comes down to what they can do without losing time in ring.

    Almost every guy who does those spots has missed time in the last few years. Naito hasn't. Weird, huh?
    Ospreay and Dragon Lee get a pass because there's no need for criticism; for what they were doing that match was very safe from what I saw. High risk yes but there's always going to be risk with a high flying style, and for what they were able to do (even on the amazing suicide dive move) they did it incredibly safe, which makes sense because both guys are world class and they didn't try anything outlandish. Frankly I thought a good chunk of Naito and Ibushi was safe as well, especially in the back half of that match when they absolutely had to be after that infamous spot. Naito and Ibushi are both so good at bumping and selling that I think at times they fool people into thinking their bumps are worse than they are, such as the Cuerno Driver spot Naito took (which looks bad but you can see he tucks his head safely if you look closely), the DDT Ibushi took and the reverse rana.

    Now having said that...the match should've been full blown stopped after the German Suplex, even if Ibushi is okay (and all accounts are he is). That was a disgusting, unsafe landing and the fact that New Japan didn't stop it right away is baffling. Frankly the spot shouldn't have been in the match. I know people killed New Japan and Dragon Lee last year for the injury to Hiromu Takahashi, but that was a case of a move Lee and Takahashi had done a thousand times just went wrong. That happens (see Samoa Joe and Tyson Kidd) and they finished that match quickly. I had no problem with that spot being in the match. This was a case where a man was going to German Suplex a dude from the tightest of spaces onto the floor, where a million things had to go right for it to be pulled off safely. It's just a terrible idea and it produced a terrible result, one that makes the rest of the match null and void. Yes they worked safely after that in my opinion, but whether they did or didn't doesn't matter; the match should've been called immediately after that spot and the fact that it wasn't makes the whole thing just as troubling as the Goldberg-Taker debacle or the Shibata headbutt. I'm just glad Ibushi is alright and hopefully no one ever tries that again.


  3. #243
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    I'd say the majority of fans - myself included - are definitely conditioned towards those types of moves and come to expect them nowadays, unfortunately. I've tried to think that I'm not like that, but I realize that I anticipated Ibushi and Naito doing things like this and would have probably been disappointed if they hadn't done some crazy WTF spots like that during their encounter.

    The worst part of it all is that I doubt it will get any better until someone gets seriously hurt or worse. The mentality is that no one has gotten seriously messed up so they just need to be careful. It doesn't make it right, but that's how human nature is.

  4. #244
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    A Japanese blog is apparently stating that Gedo stepped down as booker before Dominion. Huge potential news

  5. #245
    The Brain
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    Already debunked, I believe. Just as well, his booking style doesn't always thrill me on a personal level but it's been a big part of New Japan's success this decade.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    So what do people want? Are people willing to accept that maybe these guys are going to take stupid risks that make you feel uncomfortable watching, or are they going to adjust their rating curve?
    I know this is the NJPW thread, but I was bothered by the craziness of the NXT 4 way ladder match for the tag titles, especially from Undisputed Era who obviously were the veterans of the match, helping make everyone else look great. Now I read Kyle O'Reilly has a back injury, and hasn't competed since.

    I loved how innovative that match was, but I don't think I put words to screen anywhere saying I was a fan of it, because it did cross my limits for spots and insanity. And it looks like one of the stars is paying for it now.

  7. #247
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    A big part of the problem is that while there are certainly high profile matches where the emphasis is put on story, character and less on insane athleticism that is something that is held against certain wrestlers when it comes to ranking and discussing their achievements: 'oh he's just a character wrestler', 'he relies on the bells and whistles to make things work'.

    Lip service will be paid to the risks but ultimately the matches are held up by the general consensus as the greatest matches there are, there is no qualifying it with 'well he has to nearly kill himself every match' when discussing the achievements of the most athletic wrestlers, at least not in a negative way. Just look at the fanfare around the Ibushi/Naito series or Will Osprey's run in BOSJ.

  8. #248
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    I spotted this at my local supermarket today, thought people reading this thread would find it interesting:



    Those are boxes of Japanese curry. I didn't buy any since it was pretty expensive. For some reason it was 2-3 times more expensive than other brands. Maybe one day I'll give in and try one.
    Last edited by Degenerate; 1 Day Ago at 08:36 AM.

  9. #249
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Well Yano (by the looks of that pic) has to get his pay day some how...



    Great post Degen, how random that they would have an official curry. Do they have any other random stuff?

  10. #250
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    If WWF could have ice cream bars in the 80s, NJPW curry makes sense to me.

  11. #251
    The Brain
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    Ha, love weird wrestling related products!

    A big part of the problem is that while there are certainly high profile matches where the emphasis is put on story, character and less on insane athleticism that is something that is held against certain wrestlers when it comes to ranking and discussing their achievements: 'oh he's just a character wrestler', 'he relies on the bells and whistles to make things work'.
    This is a good post. Just want to say even though I do use the phrase "bells and whistles" myself, I don't mean it as a negative! Bells and whistles can be great fun!

  12. #252
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirSam View Post
    Great post Degen, how random that they would have an official curry. Do they have any other random stuff?
    I didn't see anything else at the supermarket but it wouldn't surprise me if they have all sorts of food-related stuff elsewhere. New Japan recently did a live stream with Cookpad, a tech company that has the largest recipe-sharing platform in Japan. They had Yano and Ishii cooking stuff. It sounds like a strange crossover but that's actually good promotion to do because Cookpad is really popular here. My wife and I pretty much use that site all the time, they're mentioned on TV all the time, have tons of popular cookbooks, and so on.

    I also remember a year or two ago New Japan had a brief promotion at one of the larger retail chain stores here called Loft and they had all sorts of New Japan-branded goods like pens, pencils, notebooks, and towels.

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