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  1. #41
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    See, I don't get the love for Days of Future Past. I have tried several times to get into that movie and I can't. I have finished it, but never even liked it, much less loved it. To me, if there's a drop in quality, it's from First Class to Days of Future Past and then Apocalypse brings it back up.

    BTW, it is now rumored there will be a "Thanos Edition" of Avengers: Infinity War with 30 additional minutes of Thanos' backstory. Sounds great to me!
    Last edited by XanMan; 07-05-2018 at 03:07 PM.

  2. #42
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    I thought Future Past was overrated but I wouldn't go that far. I did like how it canonically "fixed" the X Men universe. I also thought it was better than Apocalypse, though I could be persuaded that First Class was the best of the bunch. Kevin Bacon for the win!

    Could definitely get into some extended Thanos stuff, thought they did a great job with a different take on the character.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by XanMan View Post
    See, I don't get the love for Days of Future Past. I have tried several times to get into that movie and I can't. I have finished it, but never even liked it, much less loved it. To me, if there's a drop in quality, it's from First Class to Days of Future Past and then Apocalypse brings it back up.

    BTW, it is now rumored there will be a "Thanos Edition" of Avengers: Infinity War with 30 additional minutes of Thanos' backstory. Sounds great to me!
    The Thanos Extended Edition is NOT going to be released, is the last I heard of it. There is 30 extra minutes that was cut out of the movie, but the latest I heard was that those minutes will not be released.

  4. #44
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    This is the last I have seen of it, and it was only from three days ago. If something else has popped up in the meantime, please share.

    https://www.gamesradar.com/avengers-...es-of-footage/


    As far as Days of Future Past, I don't dislike it, but it's very hand-wavey for me. I have heard the Rogue Cut is better, so I may try that one some time, but I doubt it fixes the stuff that doesn't work for me, so it might make me slightly like it, but it won't get better than that. Here's some stuff that bugs me, though I honestly can't pinpoint exactly why I can't truly get into it:

    1) Shadowcat should be the one going back in time, not Wolverine. I realize Wolvie is the most popular of the franchise, etc, but this would have been a perfect opportunity to explore their relationship that is so amazing in the comics and they decided not to; presumably because it was an easier write not to. That's never a good reason.

    2) The serum. Really? I mean talk about a convenient plot device. It both inhibits powers and fixes spine injuries? Sure. Why not just put it in a time capsule Logan can dig up, inject one Sentinel with so it can spread a virus to all the other sentinels that make them all into happy rainbow robots that spread peace throughout the universe?

    3) Quicksilver is not that much of a moron. I mean, I love his scenes; I really do. They're the best parts of the movie, but it takes him until after the events of the movie to figure out Magneto is his father? I will never buy that.

    4) How the fuck is Mystique's ability to change her shape going to allow Sentinels to be able to adapt and copy the powers of mutants? Darwin (who is obviously dead at this time) and Mimic would have made more sense; which leads me to...

    5) The entire plot of the movie was built around an excuse to keep Charles, Eric, and Mystique still around. I will grant that Charles should be there at least briefly, but we needed a movie that's about the X-Men; which we finally nearly got with Apocalypse, but apparently still aren't getting with Dark Phoenix. Yes, it's built around Jean, but I'm sure it'll be fucking Xavier that saves the day again. How the hell you make the Dark Phoenix Saga without Wolverine, I have no fucking idea.

    6) DOFP wraps up way too easily. Mystique being scary as shit makes Nixon rethink that mutants are a threat? Xavier just lets Magneto fly off, knowing he will probably end up killing more people? What the fuck ever.


    There are parts I do like; the stuff in the future is pretty cool, the Quicksilver scenes, Kennedy being a mutant, Charles quoting Logan back to him, Hank is always great; mostly it's just blah to me, though. The stuff above makes me just sit there thinking, "What am I watching?"
    Last edited by XanMan; 07-06-2018 at 10:00 AM.

  5. #45
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    That's an excellent breakdown and reminds me exactly of why I thought it was overrated at the time, mainly because it was heralded as the best X Men and I didn't think it was really even in that conversation. I still liked it more than you, I think, but still, that's an awesome post.

  6. #46
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Just saw Ant Man & The Wasp. It was a great pallet cleanser after the intensity of Infinity Wars.

    It kept the light hearted nature of the first one and was funny where it needed to be but still knew when to take itself seriously and hit an emotional high note.

    I loved the action set pieces, the growing and shrinking concepts really make things interesting and allow them to be creative with how things get done. The car chase in particular was a real highlight with them speeding around the streets and using the shrinking and growing to full effect.

    I was split on Ava/Ghost, when she first showed up she was badass and at first it looked like her motives were quite interesting and conflicted however by the end they kind of dropped that and her character just became a pretty basic, 'I don't care about anyone else' character. Still were cool and her outfit may be one of my favourite in all the Marvel Universe.

    Overall, great Marvel movie, at this point these guys just know their formula for the single super hero movie and while certainly didn't try to reinvent the wheel, it was none the less a very entertaining movie.



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  7. #47
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    I thought Ant-Man was okay; haven't seen the new one yet. I despise that they are using Scott Lang. I think a full trilogy of Hank Pym movies would have been awesome. First one he is Ant-Man, second one he is Giant Man, third one he is the older Pym that can only shrink and grow items like in West Coast Avengers and has to get by on ingenuity. We would also see the span of his relationship with Janet.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirSam View Post
    Just saw Ant Man & The Wasp. It was a great pallet cleanser after the intensity of Infinity Wars.

    It kept the light hearted nature of the first one and was funny where it needed to be but still knew when to take itself seriously and hit an emotional high note.

    I loved the action set pieces, the growing and shrinking concepts really make things interesting and allow them to be creative with how things get done. The car chase in particular was a real highlight with them speeding around the streets and using the shrinking and growing to full effect.

    I was split on Ava/Ghost, when she first showed up she was badass and at first it looked like her motives were quite interesting and conflicted however by the end they kind of dropped that and her character just became a pretty basic, 'I don't care about anyone else' character. Still were cool and her outfit may be one of my favourite in all the Marvel Universe.

    Overall, great Marvel movie, at this point these guys just know their formula for the single super hero movie and while certainly didn't try to reinvent the wheel, it was none the less a very entertaining movie.
    I agree with the entirely.

  9. #49
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    It's not even out in the UK yet!

    So news hit last couple of days that James Gunn has been fired from Disney because of some old divisive comments he made on his Twitter a number of years ago, and not a lot of people are happy about it. Taika Watiti is being asked for as a replacement by fans.

    Putting the moral debate aside, from a purely creative standpoint I dare say Guardians would benefit from a new director, and not Watiti. Guardians 2 got totally out of control with the humour, totally missing the brilliant balancing act the first one struck. I'd like to see a return to the right mix of humour and pathos we got in the first, and I don't think Gunn would deliver that frankly. Guardians 2 was nothing if not in love with itself.

  10. #50
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    I’m a bit biased because the CapAm movies have been my favorites (especially Winter Soldier and Civil War), And Infinity War was amazing, as well... I’d have no problem with the Russo Bros directing everything from here on out. Mind you... I don’t want them necessarily writing; bring in some of the other guys that have written other movies, and let them bounce ideas off each other (Much like they did for IW), but, yeah... just let the Russo Bros direct everything.

  11. #51
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    So what can we expect from the MCU post-Avengers 4 do we think? I know they've announced a few films already, but presumably the Thanos arc ends in the next Avengers which leaves the path wide open should the shared universe idea continue on - especially in lieu of Disney and Fox now sealing the deal, which will see X-Men be available to the MCU.

    A new collective arc, and if so, what? Or would they be better shelving shared universe for a time and instead focus on just making excellent individual films - something I feel has been a struggle for Marvel, generally speaking, really from the beginning. Lots of decent, not much great.

  12. #52
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    Really disappointed Marvel didn’t attend SDCC this year, although I totally understand why they wouldn’t. Can’t really go around throwing out new titles and trailers before Avengers 4 finishes the current crop of stuff.

  13. #53
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Saw Ant-Man and the Wasp last night.

    Not sure how I feel. It was as safe a Marvel movie as you can get. Was that a wise idea in the wake of something as subversive and intense as Infinity War? Or a disappointing return to standard after something very interesting?

    I'll have to let it digest a little more before where I stand with it. Entertained me though.

  14. #54
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    I saw Ant-Man and Wasp. Went in with no real expectations because I hadn't seen the first one, but thought it was a lot of fun. I had a blast.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  15. #55
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    So apparently Sony actually has the rights to around 900 characters as part of their license deal with Marvel. They have scrapped the plan for Black and Silver, but if Venom does well a solo Black Cat movie and a Kraven solo may be in the works along with several very minor characters getting their own films. There is also a possibility of MCU characters popping up in the Spider-Verse.

  16. #56
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Ya know, I was thinking the other day (and apologies, because this is slightly off topic) whether WB have missed a trick in not reflecting Sony, rather than Marvel.

    I'm not convinced of multiple Spider-Man supporting characters getting solo off-shoots but it strikes me a shared Bat Family universe, rather than a shared DC universe, could have worked really well.

    Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood and Batwoman would have all made for awesome solo franchises just to start with, and a collective film would've obviously been easy to bring together. Maybe a City of Owls story or something for example. They could have even carried on the Nolan-verse to do it.

    But that's for another thread I'm sure! I'm not certain how much interest there is in the likes of a solo Kraven film, as an example, but I remain a believer it all boils down to one thing: is it a good movie? If so, let Sony blast out as many as they like. Otherwise restraint might be in order...

  17. #57
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    Along with, "Is it a good movie?" is the question, "How many superhero origin stories can I take?" I would like these companies to start taking a chance and showing these characters in media res. I don't need to see young Kraven growing up or Felicia Hardy learning how to be a cat burglar. Let's get some movies where these characters are already fully formed and doing their thing. Otherwise it's basically the same story we keep being told and, as much as I love Marvel, getting pretty old. From the previews, I think Aquaman is going to strike a nice balance, but we really haven't seen that yet from any of the big companies. It might not be since, Hellboy, actually.

    EDIT: I forgot to comment on your actual idea. I think a series of Gotham related movies would have been great. I was lukewarm on the tv show, but I would love to see those individual movies you listed; it would be kind of like Marvel's Defenders. There will be a Batwoman series on WB next year; I'm not sure if you knew that or not. I would rather that Wayward Sisters had gotten the nod, but I'm not butthurt over it or anything.
    Last edited by XanMan; 08-13-2018 at 10:52 AM.

  18. #58
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    My thing about origin stories is this. Is the character familiar with main stream audiences? Say for instance Superman. Superman doesn't need another origin story ever again. My wife knows the Superman story. But, say Ant-Man, no one knows Ant-Man. Having an origin story helped my wife, who had no idea who he was, understand why he appeared in Civil War. Marvel has done a great job and I'd say found a second wind. Except Winter Soldier, I thought all the sequels of Iron Man 3, Thor 2, Avengers 2, all were meh. But since Civil War the movies really picked up and now putting out fun movies. I saw Ant-Man and the Wasp with the kids, first Marvel movie in a while with no curse words and it was really, really fun.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by XanMan View Post
    Along with, "Is it a good movie?" is the question, "How many superhero origin stories can I take?" I would like these companies to start taking a chance and showing these characters in media res. I don't need to see young Kraven growing up or Felicia Hardy learning how to be a cat burglar. Let's get some movies where these characters are already fully formed and doing their thing. Otherwise it's basically the same story we keep being told and, as much as I love Marvel, getting pretty old. From the previews, I think Aquaman is going to strike a nice balance, but we really haven't seen that yet from any of the big companies. It might not be since, Hellboy.


    SpiderMan: Homecoming. Even the bit in Civil War when he goes to tell the story, and Stark is like “Yeah, whatever... I gotta go.” That was about the perfect tease.

  20. #60
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    Good call. And I suppose Incredible Hulk, too, if you don't take it as a continuation from Ang Lee's Hulk.

    LK, the thing is why do superhero movies have to do that when others don't? I'm not saying no others do, but take, for example, Mission: Impossible, Tombstone, or Ocean's 11. The leads of those movies--all blockbusters--are already fully formed characters and we don't need to see them start in their formative years or whatever. We just roll with the current predicament they are in. That's how I think more superhero movies should be. Even if audiences don't know the origin, there can be a brief touch on it or something; it doesn't have to be all or most of the movie.

  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by meandi View Post
    SpiderMan: Homecoming. Even the bit in Civil War when he goes to tell the story, and Stark is like “Yeah, whatever... I gotta go.” That was about the perfect tease.
    Quote Originally Posted by XanMan View Post
    Good call. And I suppose Incredible Hulk, too, if you don't take it as a continuation from Ang Lee's Hulk.

    LK, the thing is why do superhero movies have to do that when others don't? I'm not saying no others do, but take, for example, Mission: Impossible, Tombstone, or Ocean's 11. The leads of those movies--all blockbusters--are already fully formed characters and we don't need to see them start in their formative years or whatever. We just roll with the current predicament they are in. That's how I think more superhero movies should be. Even if audiences don't know the origin, there can be a brief touch on it or something; it doesn't have to be all or most of the movie.
    Spiderman though is one of those that EVERYBODY knows. The world doesn't need ANOTHER Spiderman origin story.

    I think an origin story is good if it's a good story. I mean look at Iron Man 1. The way the MCU is set up, really Iron Man 2 is Iron Man's connection to the MCU, and if you skip Iron Man 1 and then jump to Iron Man 2, you really aren't missing anything. And the Hulk movie, now in the context of the MCU really makes no sense at all. But Iron Man 1 was just a better movie with an actual story to tell of a man who's greedy and self centered, and you go from that to Iron Man, to now being the voice of reason in the Avengers and giving Spiderman the same speech as Fury gave him in IM2. If the origin story is good, then you should tell it. Black Panther did not get an origin story. He was already Black Panther, which worked for that story, because the story of him getting Black Panther from his dad was not an interesting story. His country was isolated, he was a rich prince, and his dad was the king and got too old to be Black Panther. No need for that origin story. But a character no one knows, like Ant-Man, a criminal, who is trying to redeem himself for his daughter and becomes a super hero, that's a good story to tell.

  22. #62
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    No, it wasn't, because the movie should have been about Hank Pym and not Scott Lang, but I get your point.

  23. #63
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XanMan View Post
    No, it wasn't, because the movie should have been about Hank Pym and not Scott Lang, but I get your point.
    HAHAHA... I thought the same thing too, and I would have loved to see Avengers start off with the whole original team of Iron, Thor, Hulk, Hank Pym and Janet van Dyne, with Cap all from the first movie, but hey, they went this route and I ain't mad at it... LOL.

  24. #64
    Talking about the Lee Ang Hulk, anyone found that movie actually underrated and deeply misunderstood?

  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by JacobWrestledGod View Post
    Talking about the Ang Lee Hulk, anyone found that movie actually underrated and deeply misunderstood?
    Fixed, and no way. That movie completely re-wrote the origin of the Hulk and not in a good way. Also the dad (Nick Nolte) as the villain who first made Hulk Dogs and then turned into a "electricity monster", was absolute garbage.

  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by LWO4Life View Post
    Spiderman though is one of those that EVERYBODY knows. The world doesn't need ANOTHER Spiderman origin story.

    I think an origin story is good if it's a good story. I mean look at Iron Man 1. The way the MCU is set up, really Iron Man 2 is Iron Man's connection to the MCU, and if you skip Iron Man 1 and then jump to Iron Man 2, you really aren't missing anything. And the Hulk movie, now in the context of the MCU really makes no sense at all. But Iron Man 1 was just a better movie with an actual story to tell of a man who's greedy and self centered, and you go from that to Iron Man, to now being the voice of reason in the Avengers and giving Spiderman the same speech as Fury gave him in IM2. If the origin story is good, then you should tell it. Black Panther did not get an origin story. He was already Black Panther, which worked for that story, because the story of him getting Black Panther from his dad was not an interesting story. His country was isolated, he was a rich prince, and his dad was the king and got too old to be Black Panther. No need for that origin story. But a character no one knows, like Ant-Man, a criminal, who is trying to redeem himself for his daughter and becomes a super hero, that's a good story to tell.
    One last thing about origin stories, and then we close that discussion if y’all want... some characters need a fully fleshed out origin story (Dr. Strange and Ant Man) and some don’t (Black Panther). Some only need a couple of scenes to explain why they’re there all of a sudden (Vision in AoU). I have a feeling going forward (after Captain Marvel, which I’m pretty sure will be a fully fleshed origin story), the writers are going to be able to start incorporating the “few scenes” origin story because of how many Easter eggs and subtle notes they’ve dropped over the past 10 years. For example... Adam Warlock will probably get the Vision treatment because he’s already been hinted at previously. Whenever the X-Men come in, there will be zero backstory. (Except a scene to explain why they’ve been under the radar the entire time.) The F4 can probably pull off the origin story through quick little flashbacks peppered through the movie.
    Last edited by meandi; 08-13-2018 at 09:23 PM.

  27. #67
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    If they are going to continue the current X-Men timeline and just incorporate those characters and actors, then there would have to be some sort of universe merging going on. Remember, basically when the world found out about superpowered beings in the MCU it was when the attack in New York happened. When the world found out about mutants in the X-Men movies, it was the 1960s.

  28. #68
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    Eh... recast the X-Men and F4. Run a couple of solo films for both those franchises while still running current MCU films. Sprinkle in a few Easter eggs here and there about a Secret Wars style arc throughout the different franchises and then eventually merge everything in a future film.

  29. #69
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    That will probably happen, but personally I don't want to see the X-Men recast except Wolverine and the killing off or exiling of Magneto and Xavier. The cast in X-Men: Apocalypse was stellar.

  30. #70
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    Would a cast that young fit in with the current crop of actors, though? It was fine casting them in the Fox lead movies seeing as how it looked like Fox was was willing to take the time for us to watch them grow up over however many movies. Throwing that cast in with the MCU cast wouldn’t feel right in my opinion.

  31. #71
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    I'd rather them recast X-Men completely, in honesty, and I say that as someone who may consider the X-Men franchise as my second favourite superhero franchise after Nolan's TDK trilogy. I think Stewart and McKellen, McAvoy and Fassbender have all been absolute revelations as Xavier and Magneto, and I adore their work much more than anything involving Wolverine (barring Logan, perhaps). But trying to cram the continuity together would be a nightmare, and serve to confuse ordinary movie goers. Besides, DOFP did well to marry the convoluted X-Men continuity together in a way that works nicely, so Dark Phoenix would be a nice place for the franchise to bow out, coming full circle with a (hopefully) better take on the arc they originally kicked off with.

    Plus, the MCU has a different tone generally, and it's just too perfect an opportunity to wipe the slate clean with a fresh start to pass up in my mind. I'd re-cast, and I'd play on the real history of the comics - use the idea that there was once an original team of Cyclops, Jean Greay, Beast, Iceman and Angel some decades back or something. Have fun with it!

    I also think AvX would be a great arc to move into once the Infinity one is done, though I admit I don't know much about it.

  32. #72
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    If you stay true to the comics, you’d have to do quite a few movies to even be able to lay the foundation for AvX. In a nutshell, it’s about the Phoenix coming back and the Avengers wanting to kill it once and for all and the X-Men aren’t trying to let that happen. Then you’ve got Wolverine who is on the fence because he has ties to both teams at that point, and yeah... way too much going on to even begin to try that story.

  33. #73
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    You say that, but don't forget it took ten years to build to Infinity War. With them now churning out three films a year, I'm sure you could lay the required foundation in the same span of time again!

  34. #74
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    Only if you neglected a lot of the other franchises and focused just on the X-Men. How many movies would it take to establish the mutants and form a connection with them to the point where it would be heart wrenching when Jean is consumed by the Phoenix Force and dies? Then there needs to be movies with the team dealing with the loss and the fallout from that. You’ve got to kill off Xavier at some point and have Cyclops take over and become the militant asshole that people hate, but he gets the job done. Then you’ve got to reintroduce the Phoenix Force. That seems like close to a decade of movies right there, and that doesn’t take into account all the other franchises.

    Now, with all that said, I’d be all about a slightly watered down version like they did with Civil War. Almost something akin to BvS in which the teams come together in the third act to fight off the big bad.
    Last edited by meandi; 08-18-2018 at 10:29 AM.

  35. #75
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Well yeah, that's it exactly - obviously they wouldn't be able to translate it like for like and I doubt they would. But you could comfortably distil it all I would imagine. I'm sure you could find a way to truncate it into a single Phoenix Force encounter, rather than one, a death, a resurrection and a second. I dunno, like I say I'm not familiar with the source material, it just strikes me as an inherently appropriate avenue to take given the recent franchise acquisition happening at a time it looks like the Infinity arc is closing.

  36. #76
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    With one episode left, I highly recommend Luke Cage season 2. Much better than the first season. And Bush Master is an awesome villain.

  37. #77
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    I liked season one better, as this one tended to drag on at times. Netflix does not need to always make 13 episodes as they could easily condense the series into 10 episodes and then there would be considerable less filler, and more action per episode.

    Take a look at GoT, they had 10 episodes per season, and 8 in the most recent, and each episode was amazing. Short and to the point.

  38. #78
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    I daresay Luke Cage season 2 was better than season 1. I thoroughly enjoyed Bushmaster. I loved the character building. Episode 1 was the only bad episode.


    I finally saw Infinity Wars. I loved it. My only major gripe (minus them killing Spidey- fuck that noise) was no Silver Surfer. I had no illusions of him being in it, but he should have been. I still wait patiently for his own movie. They'd be fools not to do one.


    I told a friend before I saw Infinity War that the plot would most likely lead to a parallel universe theme. And after seeing it, they went the way I thought they would. Notice how Dr Strange said things went the way they had to, after Starlord let his emotions screw things up? I'd be willing to bet anything his words seep deeper into Thanos, and it festers. Thanos' love for Gamora will wind up undoing him, and his ambition. What was thought as a mistake, would wind up being the one thing that worked in bringing him down, while all other universes failed from their "successes".
    Last edited by Kleckamania; 08-20-2018 at 11:23 PM.


  39. #79
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    About halfway through Iron Fist season 2, and it’s ace. Like, DareDevil levels of awesomeness.

  40. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Take a look at GoT, they had 10 episodes per season, and 8 in the most recent, and each episode was amazing. Short and to the point.
    Sorry for the double post, but Iron Fist 2 did exactly that.

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