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  1. #1
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Engage! The Star Trek Thread

    The Trek thread went a bit quiet at the end there. But never fear. I have been, and always shall be, your friend.

    Interesting time for Trekkers with two new films on the horizon, a fourth of the reboot series and a Tarantino film, not to mention a second series of Discovery.

  2. #2
    The Brain
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    I'm a big Trek fan overall, though I have some gaps in my knowledge that hardcore Trekkies would probably find inexcusable.

    Huge fan of the original series, maybe minus a few of the bad episodes (Space Hippies, come on...). I love the feel of it, the energy and hope, and the chemistry of the cast. Lots of classic stuff in that series.

    TNG is my big gap, I've never sat down to really watch it outside of a smattering of episodes. It doesn't help that I'm the type who likes to watch from the start, and everyone knows the early stuff is tough to get through. I will definitely watch it properly eventually and probably become a big fan once it takes an upswing, but I've yet to tackle it.

    DS9 is easily my favorite, it's the darkest and most mature of the Trek canon, especially in the second half. Character like Garak, Odo, and Kira get me every time, and that's just scratching the surface. All the Dominion War stuff is A+ in my book.

    Big fan of Voyager as well, I always thought they could have made the show a bit grittier considering the premise but overall I still find it very good with some great characters mixed in with a few weak ones.

    Tried very hard to get into Enterprise when it first came out, but gave up sometime in the first or second season. I love Scott Bakula but something about it just wasn't clicking. It just didn't have that Trek feeling. I was put off by the prequel aspect, and the ham fisted attempts to be edgy (the guy getting pregnant episode, pointless implied nudity). I heard it gets better with time but I'm not sure I'll bother going back, to be honest.

    I did really enjoy the new films, though I understand why some people don't. I find them really fun and well cast. They have a different feel, yes, but on the whole that's ok with me. The Trek universe is pretty vast and I'm willing to watch a wide range of stuff.

    Have not caught Discovery yet, but I've heard good things. It's on my list!

  3. #3
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Enterprise is probably better than Discovery and particularly is better for a Trek feel, so I'd brace yourself for that. That's not to say ST:DIS isn't without it's merits but I found more to like dotted around in Enterprise on the whole.

    We clearly need to revisit the how much of seasons 1/2 you can skip discussion to get you caught up on TNG, because everyone needs to watch series 4-7 of that one!
    Last edited by Prime Time; 07-16-2018 at 06:27 AM.

  4. #4
    The Brain
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    Oh man, I don't think I'm capable of skipping. It's more a question of finding the time and will to gut through the early stuff. I'm too much of a completionist to not check it all out at some point!

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    How about doing it the way I first saw it - with some of the earlier seasons as more of a prequel, when you're already hooked?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  6. #6
    The Brain
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    Haha, I do enjoy a good Machete Order sometimes. What's the suggested viewing order, then?

  7. #7
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Well, you could come in at any point in season three, really. As long as you get the first half of 'Best of Both Worlds' you can then move on into series four, which is where things really start to come good.

    Here's something I might try though - it'll mean a fair bit of jumping around but what it'd kind of mean is that all the first series episodes would be watched just before they became relevant to the later stuff. There could be a slightly better way of ordering it but this will roughly work.

    So start with the first six episodes of season 3. Then watch the season finale of season 1, before S3E7. Then S1E5. Carry on with S3E8-12.

    Then do a little marathon of the early Q episodes - Encounter at farpoint 1/2, Hide and Q, and Q Who from Series 2, before S3E13.

    Then episode 14, before doing S1E4, and S1E23. Then do S3E15.

    After that you could do S2E9, s2e21, before coming back for S3E16.

    Then skip back to do S1E20, S2E14, and then S3E17-23.

    Then S1E11, S2E19, before S3E24.

    Finally then you finish Season 3.



    That means during season three you'd watch 9 episodes of season 1 and 5 from season 2 as a prequel. And you could then fit the rest in during seasons 4-5, putting you pretty much having seen all the early stuff by the time you get really into season 6.


    Boy, that was more work than I thought it would be!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  8. #8
    The Brain
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    Holy shit, that actually sounds pretty awesome. I don't think I have time to tackle it right now but I'm definitely coming back to this at some point to try it out!

  9. #9
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Dude...pretty tempted by that myself! How on earth did you come up with that road map?! I think I've underestimated your knowledge of the Trek.

  10. #10
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    I'll do you a deal, guys. If we all agree to try it, I'll finish the map to get the rest of the series 1&2 episodes in somewhere....

    EDIT: So I worked out another little sequence. If you get into season four, before you get to S4E5 stop, and do S1E6 and S2E13.

    Get S1E15 in before S408.

    I'd do a run of earlier series episodes before 4x09. If you do 1x03, 1x08, 1x09 1x19,1x25, and 2x17, there's a whole long sequence in there and you can also knock out a lot of the Wesley stuff in one go.

    Before doing Data's Day (4x11), do 1x07, 1x12, and 2x03.

    I'd also add in S1E13 in before doing S2E9, so that expands that Data sequence of episodes. The best place to fit in S1E14 is probably before the season 1 finale, but to be honest you can probably slide it in anywhere.

    All in all that mean's there's only six episodes of the first season that don't really slide in at some sort of clear juncture, but because they don't you could basically fit them in as you liked. I might try and put them in where the next episode might have some kind of thematic link, though, even if there's no clear plot link.

    I'll do you a deal, guys. If we all agree to try it, I'll finish the map to get the rest of the series 1&2 episodes in somewhere....

    EDIT: So I worked out another little sequence. If you get into season four, before you get to S4E5 stop, and do S1E6 and S2E13.

    Get S1E15 in before S408.

    I'd do a run of earlier series episodes before 4x09. If you do 1x03, 1x08, 1x09 1x19,1x25, and 2x17, there's a whole long sequence in there and you can also knock out a lot of the Wesley stuff in one go.

    Before doing Data's Day (4x11), do 1x07, 1x12, and 2x03.

    I'd also add in S1E13 in before doing S2E9, so that expands that Data sequence of episodes. The best place to fit in S1E14 is probably before the season 1 finale, but to be honest you can probably slide it in anywhere.

    All in all that mean's there's only six episodes of the first season that don't really slide in at some sort of clear juncture, but because they don't you could basically fit them in as you liked. I might try and put them in where the next episode might have some kind of thematic link, though, even if there's no clear plot link.

    FYI the six left over are 1x16, 1x17, 1x18, 1x21, 1x22, 1x24.
    Last edited by Prime Time; 05-11-2018 at 09:35 AM.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  11. #11
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    Just finished TNG Season 5. Uneven season really. Some absolute gems "Darmok" "Cause and Effect ", "Inner light" but on the flip side, a few that can be seen offensive "The Outcast" "Perfect Mate" Alot of weak or meh episodes which makes me think 24 plus episodes is too much for any show..

    Having said all that, when TNG is top notch, its great stuff.

    Now onto my question. I'm watching the franchise my first time of course and I wanted to go by airdate at first... Which has been easy to this point, even with a few dud seasons.. Nothing will stop me from completing my goal.. However, I don't feel like jumping all around on airdates would be beneficial... So should I just finish TNG before starting DS9? Then Finish DS9 before starting voyager (read there's little to no crossover here )

    I'm also unsure how to handle the TNG Movies considering all of them fall under while DS9 and Voyager are airing except Nemesis.

  12. #12
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I think you can pretty safely watch all TNG, then move to DS9. There's some crossover, but not enough to worry about. In fact the main bit is that they do something to set up the story in TNG before debuting DS9. Same goes for the films really, though I think most people would say you aren't missing a lot if you skip Insurrection and Nemesis entirely. I like the former but even I don't think you'd be missing a lot.

    I don't think I'd call any of the episodes offensive - sometimes they're flirting with some potentially iffy subject matter but I think they always handled it pretty well and with maturity so as long as you're not looking to be offended and can think of it within the time it was produced, it'll be fine. I do think there are a couple of weak episodes but not many in that series. You didn't mention the only one I skip when I rewatch, which is The Game. Six is next, and I don't skip anything in that year. Seven's really good but there's 1-2 I usually miss but 6 I watch the lot.



    Anyway - still an age away from Discovery season 2 having a date, but I guess it's good they aren't rushing it. Learning from the first season, they say. But Trek 4 has a director and they're in pre-production - the British S.J. Clarkson is going to be the first woman to direct a Trek movie. Couple of the junior writers from Beyond are in charge of the screenplay. I'm hoping that it does follow the lines of Beyond a bit more, rather than trying to reheat the older films but with modern CGI.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Rumoured date for Discovery is early 2019 now, and they've just changed the showrunners. Newbie coming in is Alex Kurzman, who was producer on the 2008 Trek movie. Hopefully he'll be just as committed to working within canon as the chat from the previous two was towards the end.

    EDIT: RUMOUR/SPOILER BELOW






    OH MY GOD THEY ARE SAYING PATRICK STEWART COULD BE BACK IN ONE OF A BUNCH OF NEW STAR TREK SHOWS AS PICARD AND I JUST CAN'T EVEN
    Last edited by Prime Time; 06-20-2018 at 07:01 AM.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  14. #14
    The Brain
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    Without commenting on that spoiler directly, I'll just say I'm surprised it's taken this long to get multiple Star Trek shows going at once. Feels like a perfect fit for the current "extended universe" trend.

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    If PT is referring to something that star said in an interview, i wouldn't hold much weight to it, more like the star speculating.... randomly.

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Even if the salient detail there didn't come off, there's enough news out there to be really optimistic about the franchise on TV.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  17. #17
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    I love seeing how enthused you are by the prospect Prime! I honestly didn't expect you to be so positive about it when I first referenced it to you on Twitter - I was expecting a cynical desire for something more contemporary, but I guess I underestimated your love for...well, you know what.

    I'm more in two minds about because of the aforementioned reason but, like you say, reason to be excited for the TV future of the franchise is there in spades!

  18. #18
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    if it happens, must watch.

  19. #19
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    'Plan, what were your top episodes again? I meant to go back and rewatch some of the Voyager ones again once I finished DS9 but obviously they got wiped in the reset.....

    I should probably just rewatch all of Voyager again really, but not sure if I can be arsed at this point.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  20. #20
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    That's a good question....

    I can't remember, haha. It shifts so often. Equinox, Year of Hell and Scorpion are all great two parters. Latent Image is my favourite Voyager stand-alone, but I've always enjoyed Deadlock too - I think that's the one anyway, when two Voyagers are occupying the same point in space and time.

  21. #21
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    So I just did a double bill back to back of Best of Both Worlds and Scorpion, and I must say the two complement one another incredibly. The latter watches like the inversion of the former. Instead of a sole Borg ship in Federation space, it's a sole Federation ship in Borg space. Instead of Starfleet fighting a war it can't win, it's the Borg fighting a war they can't win. Instead of a human being brought into the Collective, it's a Drone being removed from it. Right down to the shot of Kim shedding a year as 8472 infects him mirroring the shot of Picard doing likewise as the Borg assimilate him, the way the two bounce off each other is quite something. I hugely recommend you give it a try folks! Even the theme of Captain vs. First Officer is shared between them!

  22. #22
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    So the New Picard series is real and sounds like a followup on Picard's later years. I'm hype

  23. #23
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Lots to process and share on the news!

    Top of the pack is the fact that it's massively exciting we finally get a new Prime Universe series set after the Dominion War and after Voyager returned home from the Delta Quadrant, and a whole twenty years no less! I can't wait to see how the Federation and other super-powers might have changed in that time. What happened in the wake of Shinzon's hostile takeover? How's Cardassia doing?

    There's so much continuity that I'm fascinated by, if they tow that line - Admiral Janeway's technology and how it might have helped the Federation fight the Borg, if the Borg ever came back after First Contact; the destruction of Romulus and Remus that happened in the Prime Universe to create the Abramsverse, and if that's still going to be stuck too; and what about the potential of guest appearances from other canon characters from DS9 or Voyager? I'd love to see how Picard would react to Seven of Nine, or how Jake Sisko has taken to his life since the end of DS9. How has the Ferengi Alliance changed in the wake of Rom's social upheaval? Has the Federation returned to the Delta Quadrant to pick up where Voyager left off?!

    Then there's surely going to be some addressing of what happened to Picard's old crew. How's Captain (even maybe Admiral?!) Riker getting on? Did B4 ever end up like Data was before Data's destruction in Nemesis? Man, I'm buzzing.

    So. Many. Questions.

    Of course, they may choose to play fast and loose with canon again. I'd get used to that, though it'd be a damn shame not to keep building on the huge events that shaped DS9, and the big impact the events of Voyager should have rightfully had. I look forward to seeing how Picard might have changed (hopefully not in a Last Jedi Luke Skywalker kind of way, which really would be difficult for me to digest), where he's gotten to in the twenty years since Nemesis and what new characters he might be surrounded by.

    Very exciting news, and hopefully this will be a Trek we can more readily recognise.

  24. #24
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I'm super hyped but have kinda tipped over into nerves now. I think I'm going to be this way until it arrives. Basically we haven't had a 'good' Star Trek series that doesn't have one of Gene, Rick Berman or Michael Piller involved in it somehow, so I'm wondering how this will end up working out. I'm hopeful that it'll end up being good and that Stewart, as both an actor and director on the other shows, will be able to bring what worked to the new stuff too. You'd think that they've got to be willing to listen to him, if they have a resource like that.

    It's funny you mention looking at what comes after the hostile takeover of Romulus, because that was always my idea for what a new series should be based on. I don't know if I've really mentioned that before?

    Just to go back to your last post, 'Plan, I've seen people mention the Scorpion/TBOBW mash-up before. I read blog about it... the only difference was they had Q Who in the mix, which apparently Scorpion is referencing as well.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  25. #25
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    There is a very brief reference to Q Who in Scorpion but it's only in passing. The double bill with TBOBW is something I massively recommend though.

    So I've started watching my way through all of Enterprise. Since I did DS9 it's really the only Trek left I haven't done the full run with.

    It's ok. More of a swashbuckling adventure story than pure Trek. Enjoyable, if not always cerebral. I have just watched season one's Dear Doctor though, and THAT was pure Trek. Loved every minute of it - well written, intelligent science fiction, here driven anthropologically. Fantastic, and quickly became one of my new favourite Trek episodes.

  26. #26
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I can't say I've ever tried Scorpion with the TNG episodes myself so I don't know. I've just seen people writing about it.

    I kinda like Enterprise. I do think it's very Trekky, but it's sort of a jamming together of the Berman-era with some of the things from TOS flagged up more - necessarily, I think, because it's a prequel. It's probably the weakest series of that era but it's one of those that where it is good, it's very good. There are some bits where they are very ambitious with the story and I'm not sure they really pull it off. Can go a bit full-on with the 'timey wimey stuff'.

    Overall I liked it more than I thought I would though.




    OK, pick your crew. You can only have one from each category (though you don't necessarily need one from each, if that makes sense - so if you want Spock to double up as first officer and science officer, just don't pick another first officer).

    Captain

    Kirk - Picard - Sisko - Janeway - Archer

    First Officer

    Riker - Kira - Chakotay

    Doctor

    McCoy - Crusher - Pulaski - Bashir - EMH - Phlox

    Operations

    Data - O'Brien - Kim

    Science Officer

    Spock - Jadzia Dax - T'Pol

    Engineer

    Scott - LaForge - Torres - Tucker

    Tactical/Security

    Yar - Worf - Odo - Tuvok - Reed

    Helmsman

    Sulu - Crusher - Paris - Mayweather

    Comms

    Uhura - Sato

    Counselor/Morale Officer

    Troi - Ezri Dax - Neelix



    You can take advantage of any ambiguities or things I've missed in making your crew. The only thing I will say is that you can't have both Jadzia and Ezri on the same crew, for reasons which I'm sure are obvious.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  27. #27
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    As much as I like Sisko, I'm going to have to go with Picard, because my first officer has to be Riker and he and Jean-Luc balance each other nicely. Clearly O'Brien for Operations. Spock wins out slightly over Dax for science officer. Bones is my boy as doctor and there will never be another Scotty. Worf is the easy call for Security; I mean I like Tasha but you gotta have somebody durable. I'm going to assume you forgot about Navigation, so I'll take the classic team of Sulu and Chekov. Uhura is yet another classic getting the nod, meaning Kirk is the only one left at Starbase and for counselor, I'll take Neelix.

  28. #28
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    No, didn't forget navigation. Got Sulu on there as an option at the helm and left navigation officer off as I think Chekov was the only one, so not really worth listing it. But take him by all means!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  29. #29
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    So I'm going to surprise myself here and pick Archer as my captain. Though I'm always a Janeway fan to my core, Archer has all of her best traits - the compassion, the nurturing instincts, the adaptability - without Janeway's thin skin. I've grown to really like Archer as I've been watching Enterprise, plus he's not afraid to get his hands dirty and muck in when he needs to!

    I'd have to double-up on my first officer as a result and use Tuvok in that role, alongside Tactical/Chief of Security. I'm a huge fan of Tuvok. His Vulcan logic will balance Archer nicely, he doesn't get his ass kicked quite as often as Worf seemed to (on the Enterprise at least) but he also has a much greater understanding of humans than T'Pol, so I think he and Archer would make a great team.

    Operations has to be Data (an Android is just too useful, and if there's a better guide for him in his quest to become more human than Picard, it's Archer!) and I think I'd pick Bones as my doctor. Because he's Bones. He's the doctor in Starfleet! But he's not anything else, and he'll be sure to tell you. Engineering is a toughie but I think I'd go for Scotty for his ability to improv, Dax for Science (her life experience is hugely useful), Paris at the helm. Comms has to be Sato - she demonstrated much greater ability than Uhura, who once sat trying to look up Klingon words in a book at the end of her career while Sato was busy learning Klingon in a matter of hours on her first ever mission. No contest there.

    I might throw a spanner in the works and say, if Neelix is eligible for Counsellor, I'm throwing all three suggestions out the window and picking Guinan.

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