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  1. #1
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Pac (WWE's Neville)

    Does anyone know where this guy is and what he is up to?

    Dude was in career best form and the WWE seem to have just utterly buried him from existence.

    He must have seriously pissed some people off to not even get given a 'future endeavours' letter.

  2. #2
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    I mean you do know he took his ball and went home, right? I don't agree with WWE not just releasing him, especially after this long but that's what happened. He no longer wanted to work for WWE and they froze his contract.

  3. #3
    I'd hardly call being made the face of the brand buried. WWE clearly saw value in him, he just disagreed with how that value was used. From all signs, it seemed he left right during a double turn, which would have made him a clear face.

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    A brand that to this day is still struggling to draw viewers despite the overhaul that's been done to it (an overhaul that mind you wasn't on the cards when Neville was still there and only happened because of Enzo's mess) and that offers no avenue out of it as of now. I don't think anyone would claim he was being buried (Sam himself said WWE did that after he left, not before it) but let's not act like they were using Neville to his full potential either. Throw in the fact that the only power these guys have is to walk away and I really don't see the harm. The bigger problem is that they have frozen his deal despite the fact that a) they only valued him as a Cruiserweight guy, b) he's not going to be some game changer out on the indies because there is no one that be so now that WWE is rolling in their billions and c) everyone who couldn't shut up about standing up for every non WWE guy wanting out to go to WWE suddenly became silent.

    It's a conversation we've all had before and it's one we'll continue to have until WWE finally does the right thing and just lets him go.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by comfortablynumb View Post
    I'd hardly call being made the face of the brand buried. WWE clearly saw value in him, he just disagreed with how that value was used. From all signs, it seemed he left right during a double turn, which would have made him a clear face.
    The face of a third rate brand that is the equivalent of what the Divas was 10 years ago? Washroom breaks? Yeah, I can't imagine why he would leave, or be dissatisfied that he was permanently locked out of the main event scene and working with all the top stars over this...
    Last edited by Alan; 05-26-2018 at 03:35 PM.

  6. #6
    He headlined his own show for months. What else is there for him to do? The wrong side of squash matches on RAW? You can say that they should push him to the IC title yada yada yada but they aren't going to on the main roster. He was starring on his own show and having great matches with capable opponents. Nothing wrong with it. Let him rot at home.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by comfortablynumb View Post
    He headlined his own show for months. What else is there for him to do? The wrong side of squash matches on RAW? You can say that they should push him to the IC title yada yada yada but they aren't going to on the main roster. He was starring on his own show and having great matches with capable opponents. Nothing wrong with it. Let him rot at home.
    He headlined his own irrelevant C-grade show though. No one on the main roster would want to be a part of that.

    Given how ridiculously talented he was, he should have been on the main roster in serious programs, just as he was in NXT or the Indies. As usual, HHH has moved on with the times, while Vince is still stuck in 1985, even though both of them have bodybuilder fetishes.

    For instance, he could have very easily been doing on SD with the US title, what Seth Rollins is doing with the IC on Raw, which is what Cena was doing before with his open challenges. In Cena's case, it renewed his already great resume and showed his versatility, while in Seth's case, he's in the middle of an awesome run and has gone from irrelevant mid-carder to super over face. The fans get good matches and programs out of it, and if they have 5+ hours of main shows to fill, they might as well stack them with good-great wrestling, instead of trashy filler wrestling that makes people change the channel. He is as talented as Seth, could have pulled that off, and could occasionally be even in the main event scene on a brand like SD, without at all looking out of place. I have 100% confidence he would have been a fan favourite. It would be a win-win-win for everyone, for the writers, fans, wrestlers. But no, let's put him on the tanking third show that no one watches with Enzo Amore.

    Better Neville on SD than Big Ass, or Jinder Acne Mahal, wrestling in forgettable matches and program that accomplish nothing.

    Your disdain for someone having self-respect and confidence in their talent, and a willingness to walk away to prove it speaks volumes about what kind of fan you are.
    Last edited by Alan; 05-26-2018 at 04:54 PM.

  8. #8
    I don't even need to read any of that because it's negated by the fact he won't be used that way. You're living in a fantasy booking world when I'm talking about a Vince McMahon-led WWE reality. He was in the best position he could have hoped for and now he's fucked himself. It's his own doing.

    He's got great talent yet he signed a contract. Did he not know Vince favors big guys when it comes to the main roster? It's all on him. And the sad part is he had a fine role.

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    Given the fact that the failing CW brand didn't even exist until years after he joined WWE, they basically pulled him a bait and switch on him. He joined WWE like all the other Indy guys did to become a bigger wrestling star, and wrestle on either SD or Raw against the other notable stars, after a period of requisite 'paying your dues' on NXT. Instead, he came, went through the NXT system, was sent to the main roster, and *then* they decide to come up with this irrelevant misconceived CW project, which is a glorified kiddies pool with no stars of any note, and sequestered away from the real WWE action and talent. Unsurprisingly after a while he got tired of that and left, like Cody Rhodes or Austin Aries. I see nothing wrong with this, and respect him for his courage, and recognize the unfairness and illegality of the WWE's 'contractor' classification and unequal contracts where they can fire anyone at anytime, meanwhile talents cannot reciprocally leave at any time. You on the other hand, strangely sympathize more with a giant corporate monopoly fucking the people that work tirelessly and dedicate their lives to providing you with the entertainment you claim to like, for whatever reason.

    What more is there to say?
    Last edited by Alan; 05-26-2018 at 06:46 PM.

  10. #10
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    What more is there to say?
    Not a whole lot apparently, I would venture that both of you guys don't seem to care a whole lot of 205 Live, personally I love the show, it is the best weekly pure wrestling show on TV today but I can admit it's struggle does sadden me. His run on it was absolutely a great opportunity for him to show his abilities the only problem was that once he had dome that the WWE had no plans to leverage the great work he had done.

    That doesn't relate a whole lot to Neville. I think you're very right to point out the crazy nature of the WWE contracts. The lawyers that came up with those are pure evil. I wonder what would happen if Neville started to slag them in some shoot interviews?

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    Quote Originally Posted by comfortablynumb View Post
    I don't even need to read any of that because it's negated by the fact he won't be used that way.
    Right there you just explained why Neville did what he did. He wasn't going to be used the way he wanted to be and he chose to do something about it. Great for him. Wrestling would be far better off with people like that as opposed to the dudes and dudettes who settle for everything and wind up doing stupid shit. The bottom line is Neville thought his talents were better suited for an at the time (and honestly still) low level show (he was), wanted more, didn't get it and decided to walk away. I have no problem with that at all as the only other option he had was to go through the motions on 205 Live until his turn rotated around again. We don't fault indie stars (some who are in great positions) for wanting out of deals so they can go to WWE, why are we going to fault Neville when it's the opposite?

    Certainly it's unfortunate that 205 Live still doesn't mean more and didn't when Neville was around. It certainly seems like the show is at worst a fun watch and probably deserves more viewers than regular WWE programming gets based on quality. Unfortunately the WWE spent the first year or so of the show's run not getting what would make the show great, only finally got a hold of it consistently because their handpicked star failed to inform them he was under investigation for rape and even now is still a brand where a) most fans don't care because of the poor history, b) doesn't offer any of it's really talented guys a chance to move up the ranks and c) is still treating guys like Gran Metalik as secondary stars who haven't gotten a title shot despite being one of the best workers in the world (it's one of the reasons I still don't trust the show; you have a guy like Metalik and the best thing you do is put him in a stable with Kalisto and Lince Dorado because "they're luchadores so they must be a team!"? Come on now). Of course Neville didn't want to stick around. He thought his worth was higher, he was frankly right and just because Vince didn't think the same doesn't mean Neville was wrong. I have no problem with him walking out and if Neville wasn't going to mean anything like Numb keeps saying then Vince should have no problem letting him go. Instead he's freezing his contract. Why is that?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Cult Icon View Post
    Right there you just explained why Neville did what he did. He wasn't going to be used the way he wanted to be and he chose to do something about it. Great for him.
    Then he can deal with the consequences of it. I'm sure many guys are unhappy with their position on their card and don't quit. Some wait for their contracts to end and others ask for a release and sometimes get it.

    I watched him every week on 205 Live. I rarely watch now. I love his work but I'm not going to be sympathetic because he's wrestling on WWE Network instead of USA Network (which he was still wrestling on anyway at the time of his walkout). I thought he was used perfectly for months (although I wouldn't have jobbed him to Enzo). He was a badass and valuable.
    Last edited by comfortablynumb; 05-26-2018 at 08:04 PM.

  13. #13
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    It should also be noted that many of the people on NXT, with the exception of the big names like Joe, took substantial pay cuts with the carrot dangled infront of them that 'they were being given the opportunity to become much bigger worldwide stars'. So imagine being Neville, you go through all of that, through NXT, and then instead of having the chance to wrestle guys like AJ Styles or Randy Orton or Roman Reigns or any of the real stars, in-front of 2-3 million fans (and millions more online), you're stuck on some third rate show that barely anyone watches with nobodies, for very little pay. If WWE had pulled this little stunt on AJ or Joe, they would have been gone instantly too. Aries immediately did as well, for similar reasons.

    That's not a knock on the CW show, I have watched it irregularly at times and enjoyed it, but structurally it's a death knell for all of these guys, their careers, and aspirations. He would be better off in all respects even going to NJPW or touring the Indies like Cody. More money, more eyeballs and attention, more artistic fulfillment, way better schedule and control, and various expenses paid for. They should have just found a way to intermix the CW people into SD and Raw, heaven knows there's certainly enough time to fill that you could do that.
    Last edited by Alan; 05-26-2018 at 08:02 PM.

  14. #14
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    One of the crazy things in all this is that Vince and H bemoan wrestlers not having the killer attitude and drive of the fabled locker rooms of past but when you see guys who aren't part of a select group that are allowed to shake the tree trying to step up, they get met with this kind of treatment.

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    Cesaro was the most blatant example of that. He managed to get himself over with that Swagger team, they pair him up with Heyman and do zilch with him, and then Vince has the audacity to bash him unprompted on Austin's podcast.

  16. #16
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Last I heard it sounded like Neville was close to a release. Also sounded like he'd moved back to Britain.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  17. #17
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    Anyone who cares more about WWE's rights to enforce their lopsided contracts than the fact that we're being robbed of this much of Neville's prime is on a train of thought so alien to me that it barely looks like English. Fucking let the guy go already.

  18. #18
    Senior Member 205 Clive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Unsurprisingly after a while he got tired of that and left, like Cody Rhodes or Austin Aries.
    Therein lies the problem. He didn't leave as clear cut as Cody and Aries. He had the opportunity to properly sever ties with the company, but chose not to. If he had done so, all of this would be a lot clearer.

    Don't get me wrong. Neville was my personal MVP of 2017. And there is a strong possibility that the ceiling imposed on the 205 roster, along with the questionable decision to have Enzo beat him for the title, were the reasons for Neville taking his ball and going home. But he should have been more deliberate with his choice not to wrestler for WWE again, rather than try and play hard ball.

    It's a massive shame that we most likely won't see him wrestle in WWE for the foreseeable. I just wish that both sides now come to an agreement for him to be released, if that is his wish.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 205 Clive View Post
    Therein lies the problem. He didn't leave as clear cut as Cody and Aries. He had the opportunity to properly sever ties with the company, but chose not to. If he had done so, all of this would be a lot clearer.
    Would be interested to hear more about this. As far as I know, Neville was unhappy and looking for his release, and WWE decided to bench him instead.

  20. #20
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    Hmmm. Can a company do that? Can they actually hold someone, technically, against their will?

    Anyway, regardless, at this rate I'd rather Neville was allowed to just go do what he wishes. As well as potential physical in-ring entropy, he can't be doing well mentally and emotionally from all this. Just let him go and let him wrestle. I'm sure there are many indie fans in here that would salivate at the thought of Neville tearing it up in a thriving scene right now.
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  21. #21
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    Neville signed the contract which said he can't work anywhere else until the contract expires, so technically WWE has every right legally to pay him to sit at home as long as it lasts. Usually they are willing to release guys who are unhappy but for some reason Neville has been stuck in purgatory. The cynical part of me thinks WWE is sending a message that you should think twice before rocking the boat, but maybe it's something else.

    Letting him go and wrestle somewhere else is all I want at this point. He's not anywhere near big enough to be any kind of threat to WWE, but he's certainly be a hell of a lot of fun in New Japan or back in Dragon Gate or something, to say nothing of what he could do in PWG or at All In or something.

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    I don't know how much stock to put in this rumour....

    But I've seen a couple of places say the chat is Neville Might be working the UK stuff they are building up as a compromise to smooth his way out of the door.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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    He's not in the tournament and didn't they already tape the shows?

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    Not the tournament, some of the follow up stuff.

    But the next batch of tapings are in a few days and so even if he wasn't in the tournament he could appear, I guess.
    Last edited by Prime Time; 06-11-2018 at 05:36 PM.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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    They've had the 1st round of the tournament at the Download festival, and I believe Gulak vs Gallagher in on MXT tomorrow night.

    Interesting rumour, but we've heard so many rumours about Neville's status that I dont really have much faith in a return at this point.

    Does anybody know off the top of their head when Neville's contract actually expires?
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  26. #26
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    I mean, as long as it's frozen.... it doesn't.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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    Being reported Neville is no longer under contract. He's a free man. Hope he shows up at All in.

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    This should've happened a year ago. Glad he was finally able to get out and can't wait to see what he does next.


  29. #29
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    Yup, very happy for the guy! Excited to see where he pops up!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    Being reported Neville is no longer under contract. He's a free man. Hope he shows up at All in.
    I'd love to see him at All In, but I'm guessing there is still a no-compete clause to deal with.

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    I think Meltzer has reported that Neville can work anywhere he wants right now.

  32. #32
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    Endless possibilities really. King of the Juniors anyone? Stretch those character chops in Lunch Underground? Does Impact still have an X Division? Hell given just how good he was in his last run I don't see why he should have to be confined to those kind of divisions. He could just as easily match up as a Heavyweight.

    Also I've already seen the Bucks and Cody teasing an All In appearance. That would be a great way to come back.

    You have to think the guy will be just chomping at the but to work.

  33. #33
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    Yeah, contract ending doesn't have a no compete, only if he were future endeavored, so could easily be at All In. Barring that, it'd be awesome to see him pop up for Rey de Voladores in CHIKARA at King of Trios, and I'm not just saying that because I'm gonna be there live! But All In is most likely, it'd be a hell of a thing for him to win the Battle Royal and go on to win the ROH title right away. I like Lethal but there's no way PAC wouldn't create way more buzz with the belt right now, and if he does want to work with New Japan then it would fit right with the ROH partnership.

    And yeah, if Impact does get him in, they'd be nuts to confine him to the XD.

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    Its a little weird situation because if he is at All in and actually like in the battle royal wouldn't it better to announce he's in it? Airs on WGN America so you could drive some viewers to see that preshow and then of course, he'd have to win so you could have a banger match with Lethal. Not sure if ROH would want to give him the title without a contract but guess its possible. ROH has a PPV at the end of September so could always do a flip there if you needed to.

    If he doesn't show up at all in, I'd look for King of Pro Wrestling as an important date.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by LK3185 View Post
    Its a little weird situation because if he is at All in and actually like in the battle royal wouldn't it better to announce he's in it?
    Not really. They've already sold out the arena and, while Pac (let's get back to calling him that shall we?) is a big name it's not like he's going to draw more eyeballs on WGN America than were already going to be watching. Use him as a surprise. Plus, on the event he will get people to tune in, the word of mouth of him winning the Battle Royal to appear on the main show may get a few more PPV buys when all is said and done. I don't think it's that big a deal. He's definitely going to be there though; the Bucks and Cody can do a good troll but what they're doing now is too on the nose for him to not be there.


  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    But All In is most likely, it'd be a hell of a thing for him to win the Battle Royal and go on to win the ROH title right away. I like Lethal but there's no way PAC wouldn't create way more buzz with the belt right now, and if he does want to work with New Japan then it would fit right with the ROH partnership.
    I don't know they would let their big title switch on a non-Ring of Honor show, but it would be my second ROH World Title change live, so I wouldn't mind seeing it; plus Will Ospreay has been named as the #1 contender for the ROH World Title at Death Before Dishonor. PAC vs. Ospreay would be pretty fucking exciting.

  37. #37
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    I feel like All In is pretty close to an ROH show anyway, so I could see it happening. I've gone a bit cold on Ospreay myself but PAC/Ospreay definitely feels like a match they should want to run if at all possible!

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    If it doesn't happen in ROH, Ospreay/Pac at the Tokyo dome would be lit.

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    Before everyone gets their hopes up; PWInsider is saying that Neville was apparently in Pittsburgh last week, which is of course the site of WWE's medical testing facilities. I'm pretty sure there's been no announcement of Neville's release yet by WWE publicly and Triple H did try that godawful attempt at keeping kayfabe by lying about Gargano's injury last week. As nonsensical as it would be, maybe the whole thing is a work.


  40. #40
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    If so, that's the dumbest goddam worked shoot in wrestling history, and I'm including everything Vince Russo ever did.

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