Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 161 to 200 of 235
  1. #161
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    509
    Cheers Rob.

    The only thing I've been toing and froing on from the episode is Marty's cash in - I loved GotG because it wasn't MitB, so turning it into MitB is a bit disappointing. I thought the reasoning was going to be that he'd told Antonio that when he won he would cash in that night - so sticking with the week in advance thing. Kind of a shame to throw it on it's head now.

    But at least it's gone in an interesting direction. As I say, as long as they keep Strong away from any title picture or important thing, I think they'll be OK.

    Oh, and I can't remember if it was here or not that I had a discussion on it, but I do wish they'd calm down on the mask ripping stuff.

  2. #162
    I really share 2 of your sentiments Oliver. I loved how the Dario character layed out GOTG. "I like to promote my matches." You probably like the idea of Lucha Underground separating itself from WWE. I agree with this, but I think someone taking advantage of a wounded man every year to win a prestigious title cheapens the idea of what it means to winning it.

    Money in the bank works well as a one off...like Edge's win was good, but every year making a thing out of winning it that way takes away from the story of what it takes to be the best.

    Marty's win worked if it's a one time thing, and makes sense with old man Cueto taking the bribe. However, if Antonio continues supporting these kinds of changes, I'll ressurect Dario myself.

    I don't like that Pentegon lost the title...I'm not mad at the way it happened but there's still much they could do with their number 1 attraction before this happened. I just hope he and Marty have some long term legs.

    The 2nd thing I agree with is, man, I hate Jake Strong in the temple.

    The mask ripping is a good insult. Loved it with Mil and Fenix and even Penta and Cage was ok. I think it's done more than warranted; and maybe this past week was an example. But I think it was part of the sell given Pentegon the image of a wounded warrior that Marty look advantage of.

    Also, mask ripping on Pentegon does unsettle me some. I think because he's got such a mystique about him...don't want to see his face. But it's not a deal breaker.
    Last edited by Benjamin Button; 09-21-2018 at 03:14 AM.

  3. #163
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    178
    See I have no problem with the cash-in happening last night. One thing that has always ruled above anything else in the Temple is that Money Talks! From the opening of Season 1 when Johnny Mundo won the $10K, to it being used by him for his own advancement, it's ALWAYS been about the money. Another thing that is for sure is that the Cueto's do what they want, when they want, so Antonio doing it once doesn't mean he'll do it again. If Azteca gets the belt back, or whoever it is, if it doesn't benefit Cueto, or he doesn't like who wins it, then the immediate cash-in won't happen. Don't get too worked up about that being a thing now, because it's probably not, or it is, but whatever the case it will be to the benefit of the story and of course the Cueto family

  4. #164
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    193
    Completely with Trips. It be one thing if Antonio just decided to scrap the rule on a whim. In reality the only reason he did it was because Marty paid him off; both things are classic heel moves and make perfect sense given their characters. Plus this isn't the first time it happened. Remember, Dario broke the rule himself with Pentagon at Ultima Lucha Tres (yes Pentagon came to him a week before, but Dario still didn't have time to promote the match and himself said he was breaking the rules when announcing it) and that wound up being a hell of a moment itself. I don't know if LU keeps this in place or not and either way I don't care; I only care if things make sense and tell a good story. To date that's what both moves did so I can't really complain.


  5. #165
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,732
    Damn Oliver, don't share those spoilers in here!! Hoping that's just a rumor and not a fact...

    Loved the episode, so many threads interconnecting. I have only two minor quibbles, the first being I do wish some of these matches were getting a little more time. This was a lot to fit in an hour, and while I loved how well it all flowed, I did think the matches were shortchanged a bit, particularly the triple threat match. Still really enjoyed it, but I think there's a next level to hit in ring with some of these bouts that is getting passed over.

    The second is an agreement with others hoping that this GOTG switch is a one time only thing based on Marty's bribe, and not a permanent switch for the title. Loved it as a moment, hoping it stands alone.

    I loved Pentagon but this was a great way to not only introduce more danger to Penta but actually put him on the backfoot in a meaningful way for the first time in a while. I do think he should and will get the title back directly but I want a real bloodbath on the way. Marty is as mad as ever but at Mariposa's urging he is now showing a new degree of cunning, and with a new ally at his side he's sure to be incredibly dangerous.

    Seriously though, so many great layers to this. If I recall this is a 22 episode season and that was episode 15, so we only have a couple months left. I think the season is just getting better and better though, can't wait to see where it goes next!

  6. #166
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    178
    From what I've read, the matches actually ARE longer, but have to get edited for TV. I too wish the Triple Threat had more time, but I have a feeling it went considerably longer live.

  7. #167
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,732
    Damn, that's rather disappointing too. They certainly do a good job editing it, as I wouldn't have guessed off the top of my head! Maybe someday we'll get the director's cut.

  8. #168
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    178
    This week's episode was a little bit of everything honestly.

    Looks like we've seen the last of Jack Evans for a while, as he was the latest sacrifice. I'm curious as to what the plan, if any, is for all the sacrifices made by Matanza.

    The Trios title match was fine, nothing special, but it was more of an introduction to the new Rabbit Tribe with El Bunny and the White Rabbit. Looking forward to seeing Kross in the ring.

    I will say that the Drago/Aerostar vs. Strong match was pretty good. Strong looked the best I've seen him since entering the Temple, so perhaps he's finally settling into his new role in a very different place than he's used to.

    The four way #1 contender match was good, but again I wish matches of these magnitude just had more time. Muertes vs. Cuerno vs. Azteca vs. Pentagon should in any form get more than 8-10 minutes. That's a match that should go 20-25 easy, and perhaps it did, but when we only get such a short period on TV it kind of feels like a missed opportunity. Especially considering it was slightly overbooked with the Fenix interference and the Mack interference. While I'm a fan of both, do that business elsewhere and let those four tear the house down.

    LU is still great viewing, but except for a few episodes this season has been a little bit of a miss to this point. There have been way too many random disposals of talent by way of sacrifice, or ankle break, or arm break, etc. It's left me a bit unfulfilled.
    Last edited by Rob S.; 09-27-2018 at 11:31 AM.

  9. #169
    I was also very disappointed with the lack of time the main event got. Seems like Strong has been featured as much as Pentagon Dark this season, but I'm not really seeing him being a major player this season. I guess this is all for Season 5.

  10. #170
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    509
    Ben spoke about LU separating itself from WWE up there and it got me thinking - there's a slice of me that thinks LU is now being put together by somebody who has watched WWE a bit and gone 'oh, so that's how a wrestling show works!' and then taken it away to make Lucha Underground season 4.

    I don't know if that's a fair, or unfair, criticism or not, really.

    But there are a lot of elements of it there, from the short matches that lean heavily on interference, use of people like Strong because...they're big, I guess? The whole vibe of the show just seems a few degrees off from what it was before now, and I don't know how I feel about it. The last three weeks have been a mixture of being great, from storyline perspectives, to weak, from an in ring perspective.

    Like, Rob makes the point there about time for Mil vs Cuerno vs Azteca vs Pentagon, and I feel like last season that would have had 20/25 minutes to headline a show, at the expense of something like the Rabbit Tribe thing which could have just been accomplished in a backstage bit where they put people on notice.

    Maybe I'm just being grumpy recently - I have been generally grumpy recently about everything, not just this - but I feel like LU really needs something to get back to what it once was, and really connect back to me. I'm still in love with Pentagon, I still want to see where some of this stuff goes (Fenix vs Azteca at ULIV is going to light that shit up, for example) but...some of it just isn't interesting and engaging. I kind of don't care about whether or not Drago and Aerostar get their ankles broken because what difference does it make, for example. I should care, because Drago's a frigging human embodiment of an actual dragon and Aerostar is a time and space traveller like Doctor Who, and that's damned interesting and I loved them for the last three seasons. But this season they just don't feel important - and on top of that they're being shown to be less important than someone like Strong who, for some reason, the people in the Temple react to like he's a hero in the way that a TNA audience would react to, like, Chris Masters showing up or something.

    And yeah, I'm playing the Jake Strong card again.

    Thing is, I always thought Swagger was quite underrated and underutilised in his WWE run, especially post-WHC stuff, because his WHC run was really good, for a start, and I enjoyed him a lot in WWECW, plus he's a flipping behemoth. But he just doesn't belong in the temple. And it's not like when they signed ADR and had him be the focus of various things, because at least he could easily be portrayed as Lucha Royalty even though he's dogshit at everything. Strong is just big and slow and lumbering and very, very 'WWE', for want of a better way to put it. There are plenty of big guys on the LU roster - Muertes, Cage, Vibora even - who could be in his role as just a dominant big guy but have also shown they can work at the pace of those around them. Even in that nunchuk match, it felt like the pace was happening around Strong rather than him being part of it - and I enjoyed the match for what it was.

    I don't know, I'm complaining. I miss feeling like every Friday after I've watched the show on a Thursday I was desperate to come on here and discuss whether Dario being shot in the guts was real or fake, whether Vampiro was going to be 'Ian' on his meds or 'Dark Evil Pope Master' off his meds.

    Hang on, also, at the end of ULIII didn't Vampiro have a new dark master? Did we discuss that already? Cult, did you tell me the answer to that one before? I have a vague recollection of it, I feel like Kross was mentioned as being the guy, but clearly that's not happened. Or was Pentagon now Vampiro's master? Man, I'm so confused, they've not even touched that this series I don't think.

  11. #171
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,732
    At the end of season 3 it was revealed that Vampiro has his own secret master, and that they were setting Pentagon up for a fall of some kind. It hasn't been touched on since but that could be intentional? It's clear Vampiro is not guiding Pentagon at this time, which is in line with season 3 as Penta was clearly surprised that Vampiro helped him at the end. I think it will come to something but I'm am a little disappointed it hasn't been more of a talking point. Striker screaming at Vampiro to get away from him when he cost Puma his career was such a great moment, but they went back to being commentary buddies like nothing happened.

    Overall I think I've enjoyed season 4 more than some of you, but I do share some of your concerns. I'm not sure I'd call it WWE-esque but I'll certainly agree that for me Jack Swagger is a drag, even if he gets the sing-a-long effect with his tit slapping. The handicap match was better than it had any right to be thanks to some really nice and impressive spots (convinced that Aerostar time traveled when he was dropped off the balcony to avoid the impact), but I couldn't shake a gross feeling while watching it, because by all logic either Drago or Aerostar should be a match for anyone in the Temple, yet they get ultimately punked out by this guy who wrestles like he'd rather be anywhere else. Co-sign the short main event, it's hard for me to imagine the matches are edited to a quarter of their actual length so I can only assume the full matches are also being shorted on time. Sad to see Jack Evans go as well, it'd be nice to think these sacrifices will come back at some point but not holding my breath. Still think the end game is Matanza loses and is himself raptured, not sure who will take him down though. And what happened to that police captain anyway? Did she lose interest when Dario seemingly bit the dust? Where is Agent Winter and the mysterious Lord? Definitely feels like a few pieces missing, the more I think about it.

    On the plus side though, how flipping good is Melissa Santos?? She's been really brilliant this season. I think the Fenix stuff is what I'm most interested in right now, alongside Marty being champion and how Pentagon will pursue him. Mack/Mil in a deathmatch should be awesome and even better than their cage match, since they both excel at Temple-wide brawling. New Rabbit Tribe looks fun, and we've got Havoc/Killshot surely coming up too, perhaps with masks up for grabs. Lots to look forward to so don't think I'm just complaining at all, I still love LU, I just wish we were seeing a bit more of the old flavor.

  12. #172
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    509
    You know, I'd clean forgotten the Havoc/Killshot stuff. Seems like weeks since they did anything with that!

  13. #173
    Cero Miedo Mystic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    164
    Jack died.

    Jake should have.

  14. #174
    I have enjoyed season 4 thoroughly. There's been iconic cinema. I don't think that it's anywhere near WWE myself. WWE doesn't give me the characters and story Lucha Underground does. I do share with Oliver some concerns about storylines dissapearing. I'm a patient man though. Ideally, for me Pentegon would have had more fueds like his and Cage, held the title all of the season, and we'd start seeing cinema involving Vampiro and Vamp's master or something deeper and more storied. However, I think Marty's win was fine the way they did it. He's always pushing his enemies to their wits end.

    Fenix and Mundo have done unforgettable things this season. Mil bringing Catrina to her end will live forever for me.

    My own concerns is Jake Strong and I think the ice house is fine but would love to hear the announcers sell it like the old temple. I think it needs to become a character and be given reason. Vamp and Striker are good, but there's something a bit off there I think from previous seasons.Vamo was deeper in the story before. If he and Pentegon have something going, I haven't seen a hint of it since the first few episodes when Vamp criticised Pentegon for building a relationship with the believers. Would like a little more there to show a greater continuity. Still, these as of now are small complaints. I've enjoyed the season. It may be one of my favorites.

    I do miss Dario more than a lot, but Antonio has been good. And the fact the same guy can do both these roles should be appreciated.

    I think I'd like to see the characters building more to longer term stories?

    Liking this new rabbit tribe.

    There's a lot to hate about Jake Strong, his size alone Subtracts from the other talent...seeing him right before Muertes took away from Mil...It's like Alice in Wonderland after eating whatever the hell it is that makes her grow...it's awkward and just doesn't belong...He's shown nothing interesting..and he's no more than a wwe reject...it hurts to see Lucha underground with all it's character development just feed so much to this guy
    Last edited by Benjamin Button; 09-30-2018 at 02:25 AM.

  15. #175
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    193
    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Button View Post
    There's a lot to hate about Jake Strong, his size alone Subtracts from the other talent...seeing him right before Muertes took away from Mil...It's like Alice in Wonderland after eating whatever the hell it is that makes her grow...it's awkward and just doesn't belong...He's shown nothing interesting..and he's no more than a wwe reject...
    This is where I'm beginning to have a massive problem with a lot of hate towards Jake Strong. It be one thing if people were hating on him because he sucks but it appears everyone's problem with him isn't his skill, it's the fact that he's a former WWE guy who's come in and gotten pushed hard. And I'm going to be honest...that feels like a whole lot of gate keeper like shit to me.

    Like why is being a former WWE guy mean Jake Strong can't be in LU? Johnny Mundo was a former WWE guy through and through when he joined LU and he was pushed over several luchadores from the very beginning. Why is being a big guy mean Jake Strong can't be in LU? Brian Cage was bigger than everyone else, he squashed everyone else when he came in (remember how he dominated Aerostar, Angelico and Argenis the same way Strong has dominated most people) and no one batted an eye. Why is being a non luchador mean Jake Strong can't be in LU? Less we forget, the first several weeks of season one were headlined by The Crew vs. Johnny Mundo and Prince Puma, a feud that featured five Americans, one Cuban and two former WWE guys (one of whom is nowhere near the worker Jake Strong is) and the champion for season one was an American from Kentucky. Somehow all of that was okay, but now Jake Strong comes in and he's killing LU because he had the gall to make a living that isn't deemed acceptable the first half of his career. Why is it not okay for him, but it was okay for Mundo, or even someone like Mark Jindrak, who was strictly a WCW/WWE guy, until he got released and had to go to Mexico, where he became a star?

    At the end of the day when it comes to new wrestlers debuting on any show I'm watching I don't care where you come from or where you've been; I only care about a) how good you are, b) if you can get over and c) how you're used. I know Jake Strong is a good worker; I watched him long enough in WWE to know he's a really skilled in ring guy who didn't get over because he wasn't great on the mic. No he isn't Johnny Mundo or Cage, but the gulf in skill isn't that deep that I can sit here and say he sucks. He's very good. I know Jake Strong is over; he constantly gets huge reactions whenever he comes out into the Temple and has occasionally even won the crowd over despite being a heel. In an age where so many people struggle to get reactions, he gets one. His problem in LU, until this week, was how he was used. None of Strong's matches have been bad but none were really that good outside of his debut trios match; they were pretty much just squashes where he broke ankles and dominated the action. I get LU was trying to build him up but it wasn't interesting, especially compared to Matanza who has been literally wiping people off the face of the earth. This week they finally got it right. He not only looked great with Aerostar and Drago, but he managed to find the perfect balance of being an ass kicker who could still be vulnerable thanks to Aerostar and Drago's creativity. It have been one thing if he just decimated them, but Aerostar and Drago got a ton of time to do their thing and I didn't think they came out looking less than they did before (neither did Aerostar, who thought it was one of his best matches ever). The only reason you could not like the match in my estimation is if you just didn't like a former WWE guy beating two luchadores. And that's just silly because, again, that sort of shit has happened numerous times before and I didn't hear a single thing.

    There's definitely several, legitimate issues with LU. The main event matches are shorter and the backstage scenes have lessened, probably because they had a lesser budget this year (everyone appears to have forgotten this); less money means fewer scenes which means more matches (notice how there's more 4 match episodes of LU this season than in the past) which means less time and as good as LU creative is, even that's a tough hill to conquer. And while I think they've improved upon how much interference is in matches compared to last season, that is definitely something that still happens a bit more than it should. Those things do need to be looked at before season five. Jake Strong doesn't. As long as he's booked well and having matches like he had this past week, I frankly don't give a shit where he wrestled beforehand. He's a good worker, the crowd reacts to him, and he's far from the first big strong American to do so in a lucha libre setting. If you don't care for him just because you don't think he's good, that's fine and I respect that. But it appears he's being rejected less for that and more for his WWE past and that's not fair. We didn't treat Mundo, PJ Black and the numerous other WWE cast offs on the show like that; why are we doing that with Strong?


  16. #176
    Cero Miedo Mystic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    164
    I just don't think he's a good fit with LU. I always make the comparison to Alberto. He's so...plain, as a person and as the performer that LU has booked him to be. It would almost be like bringing Pentagon JR. into a very rigid promotion where people just go by their actual names. Pentagon wouldn't be a good fit and Jake is not, to me, a good fit in LU. I also don't like his monster push right now. I don't like his breaking peoples' bones all the time when that is someone else's thing. If folks like him in LU, I'm not mad at them, but I have a mind of my own, too. Some gates should be monitored. It's what keeps places from becoming TNA, where you just big up every former WWE guy for being a former WWE guy. I don't even think Jake is the end of the world. My biggest problem is it's almost like he's cut and pasted into the Temple, rather than being an actual *part* and *fit* in LU.

  17. #177
    When I say he's a WWE reject, I mean he has no merit to receive this push. It's just a small point in a greater argument...Mundo and Cage were weaved in and are miles more interesting. He was uninteresting in WWE and hasn't been interesting in Lucha Underground. There's quite a height difference between him and Cage as well. I once heard them say they try to get people around the same height...I thought that was brilliant for this intergender fight world as it does give more believability to all their athletes.

    But here Jake comes in and looks like a boring giant. He's no more interesting here than WWE. WWE let him go and he's getting the red carpet here. Mundo worked himself into a character. He found who he was in this world.
    Cage didn't have a past but was made interesting with great cinema.

    Big Ryck was made interesting with his relationship with the crew and how they added to the gritty nature of the Temple. Also, being a big guy works better for a guy like Ryck...his style makes him seem big rather than making everyone else seem small

    I haven't yet seen anyone making the point that you have to be a luchadore to be a Lucha underground star

    Jake is brought in and pushed to the moon based off what? Just being a former WWE guy? that does feel TNAish to me...if you dig him, great...I think the reasons listed above are reasons people don't...it sucks to see your least favorite WWE guy get pushed to the top of your favorite wrestling show....I would say I think everyone was kind of going over their favorite and least favorite things about season 4...I mentioned many things I liked, but Jake is the worst for me.
    Last edited by Benjamin Button; 09-30-2018 at 03:09 PM.

  18. #178
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    509
    The thing for me isn't where Strong has wrestled before - sorry if it came off like that - but simply because he's not delivering for me. Sure, he had a good match against two of the best guys in the show where plunder can cover up his lack of speed and ability to work with the guys he's against. But has he done anything else even half decent in this run? Cult, you yourself say he hasn't, so what is deserving the crowd reaction (which he got since almost day one) or the level of push he's getting.

    He needs more battling victories against the likes of Drago and Aerostar, and less one sided squashes. Plus, he needs to pick the pace of his work up if he's going to get on the same page of his opponents. Otherwise, I think there are countless other people who LU have spent time working on up until now who should be in that spot.

    Thing is, the obvious next step he'll probably take is winning the now vacant GotG. Because nobody's beating him in a standard match, so that just leaves the multi-man one for him to navigate.

    The problem isn't that Strong is ex-WWE - the problem is Strong himself (to date). And as I say, I thought he was underrated in WWE, I thought he deserved a top level push that he never got post-WHC run, and I thought he could go. I don't know what's different in the temple, but I'm not seeing the same guy I did then, or even in his late WWE stuff when he was having under the radar good-great matches with the likes of Zayn, Rusev, Big E, or tags with Cesaro where he almost always looked good.

    I like him, but nothing in the Temple is making me like him now. But hey, maybe he'll bring me round somehow. I hope he does.

    And man, I'd forgotten the amount of interference finishes there were in season 3. I hated that, especially the quantity. Urgh.

    I think what I'm missing most in this series, though, is those stories that used to be told and be fascinating. The only thing that's been really interesting from a story perspective has been the Fenix stuff. The Rabbit Tribe stuff I just...don't care for. I want my dark masters, The Crew taking Ryck's eye with a cigar, Mil and Fenix being literal wrestling death and life against each other, the unlikely trio, the series long 'Dario Cueto is running an underground fight club and the police are investigating' stuff, Fox being a captured special agent seeking revenge against Killshot for escaping capture, Vampiro turning Puma Dark, Ivelisse and Catrina getting built up over a season and then paid off - I feel like that's what's gone missing right now. Like, some of the things in LU have been set up over seasons of work, and just not been progressed at all this time around. Even little things, like the Taya documentary from season 3 - there's nothing that's even really 'fun' yet still long-term storytelling.

    I don't know, something's off, and Ricky laughing manically with his doll in the crowd while the WWU get destroyed during a wedding doesn't quite fix that.

    I mean, the most obvious thing to have done with this series would have been some kind of 'whodunnit' around Dario being shot. That's not even been referenced. You had Agent Winter actually do the shooting - not mentioned.

  19. #179
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    178
    Some could argue also that Swagger got the reaction he's gotten since Day One unfairly BECAUSE he was a former WWE guy.

  20. #180
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,732
    I'll just say for myself that I find Strong listless and dull, and I do think his matches haven't been particularly good. He's not stinking up the joint exactly but the matches just don't stir up any interest in me. His WWE status doesn't even come into it for me, for years I defended TNA for trying to make the best out of supposed rejects (with better results sometimes than others, certainly), and Lucha Underground has incorporated tons for former WWE guys in ways that made them more interesting than they were previously. I just don't think it's worked well with Swagger and I continue to think of his chants as the sing-a-long effect. I fully admit I could be wrong about that and if others are loving Jake's work in the Temple then that's cool for them, but for me I'm just not enjoying his stuff.

  21. #181
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    595
    Seeing all this talk about Strong made me think of Roddy Strong who is excellent.... Then i realized it was about Jack Swagger.....Carry on fellas.

  22. #182
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    178
    With only 4 weeks until Ultima Lucha Cuatro (which I always thought was spelled Quatro because I never took Spanish), this week's episode ramped up storylines a bit to get us set for the big event.

    The opening Trios match with Ivelisse/XO and Joey Ryan vs. The Rabbit Tribe was pretty good. Decent action in the match and I really like the vibe Killer Kross is bringing to the Tribe now, making them more vicious instead of goofy like they were before. The use of the Mandible Claw is also a nice touch.

    The Killshot/Havoc match wasn't as good as I'd hoped, but with the announcement afterwards of a rematch at UL, perhaps they're saving the best for that, and we'll get to see someone's face as we go Mask vs. Mask. My guess is that Killshot loses his mask in this one, but I could be wrong.

    The Main Event was straight fire. Damn Mariposa is great in the ring. It seems like every time she gets an extended chance to go it really burns the house down. I know Melissa has been around a long time, but she's just so damn good. The constant burying of Marty under chairs was fun to watch. Going to be a good Main Event at UL.

    So here's what we have so far for Ultima Lucha Cuatro

    DEATH MATCH
    Mil Muertes vs. The Mack

    2 OUT OF 3 FALLS
    Dragon Azteca Jr. vs. Dark Fenix

    MASK VS. MASK
    Killshot vs. Son of Havoc

    CERO MIEDO MATCH
    Pentagon Dark vs. Marty The Moth Martinez for the UL Title.

  23. #183
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,732
    I'm watching this week's episode tonight so gonna try to not see spoilers, but taking a quick glance at the bottom of Rob's post, a Cero Miedo match between Pentagon and Marty has the potential to absolutely RULE.

  24. #184
    The Marty/Mariposa match seemed sortof rushed; however the announcers did a great job of presenting the sibling rilvary as something that's happened before in their warped lives. Great match just thought some weeks of build up wouldn't have hurt.

    My wife speaks Spanish and told me that Pentegon was using some really harsh language...good!

    Like the Rabbit tribe and that mandible claw! Lol seems like he's got some sort of mental problem the way he uses the White glove...Nice!

    Liked the Killshot/Son of Havoc match.... Killshot has had a hell of a season and I like Son of Havoc. But I would not want to see the Lucha underground Title on either.... thinking these mid card guys need some reward to battle for but don't know what or if it should be....

  25. #185
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    178
    I'm confused as to why you think the Marty/Mariposa thing came out of nowhere. Ever since they introduced her there has always been quite a bit of tension between the two, as well as a least a couple of physical altercations. It wasn't rushed at all.

  26. #186
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    509
    I was a lot more into the episode this week than I have been lately. Really felt like they were pushing on a lot of stories all at once, and it certainly felt like they were getting a bit more time to progress things. It's funny how a week like this can come along and remind me why I love the show.

  27. #187
    Not saying it came out of nowhere as much would've liked to see some build after the match was announced...it was good enough a match to warrant a little more promotion. Maybe even a point of the tension coming to a full break up a couple of weeks before the match would be good for me ..just a minor thing, but I think some build and just a bit more drama before their first big fight would be good for both of them.
    Last edited by Benjamin Button; 10-05-2018 at 11:53 AM.

  28. #188
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,732
    I can agree to a point about the Marty/Mariposa thing getting a little more build. In past seasons we probably would have gotten a vignette somewhere to put a little extra sauce on it, but as Cult mentioned I guess a lower vignette budget nixed some of those ideas, sadly. I think it still came off extremely well and played off the relationship they’ve had since the beginning. I also think it was the best match LU has done in several weeks, I actually really thought it was great.

    I’ll co-sign Benny’s wife, I know enough Spanish to know Penta was throwing out a lot of “motherfucker” at Marty!

    Overall I liked Kross’s debut, though I think the face he was pulling during the mandible claw was pushing against the line of being too ridiculous. Might want to dial it back just a smidge. Dude plays the rapid personality shifts really well though.

    I also think Killshot/Havoc should be quite good at UL4. Gotta figure we’re gonna see Shane Strickland’s face, Strickland is hot as himself but Matt Cross is somehow much more boring than Son of Havoc. Also REALLY hoping we get some word about Dante Fox, I remember someone said he was in the trailer so tell me what’s up Lucha!!

  29. #189
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    193
    I'm with Trips. The relationship between Marty and Mariposa has been bizarre ever since Mariposa came along and just got more bizarre when Marty attacked her in the middle of season three. They've very much been presented as a duo that will do awful things to each other to motivate the other (let's not forget Mariposa helped shave Marty's hair at Ultima Lucha Tres) and that, combined with Mariposa motivating Marty to step up, was more than enough to set the stage for the match. Frankly I'm not sure a scene or Marty and Reklusa beating Mariposa down one week to set up the match would've really added much more than they already had. So it happening somewhat out of nowhere worked and even it hadn't the match was so good it doesn't really matter. Marty has gotten so good at this point that it's difficult for me to believe no one other than LU and AAA wants to use him. He is so unbelievably good as a character and a storyteller it's not even funny.


  30. #190
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,732
    Strongly co-sign that Marty has become a huge standout, he was great as a character from early on but his wrestling has become stupendous as well. Definitely hope to see him get as many bookings as he wants.

  31. #191
    Really loved Mil and Fenix as a team...great light vs darkness match...it's hard to know where that double pin goes, but I'm hoping it goes to just more dominance for that heel team....

    Marty is feeling like a superstar.

  32. #192
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,732
    Excited to watch this tonight. Penta/Reklusa should be good for sure and knowing Mack/Azteca vs. Fenix/Mil is on the card is doubly exciting. Feels like Season 4 is ending on a super strong note. Hate to even bring it up but do we know for sure about season 5 yet?

  33. #193
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    193
    It feels like LU has turned some sort of corner ever since Marty won the title. They had a tiny bit of an off week after that (though I'm still of the opinion that the handicap numchuk match was super good) but besides that it's been straight fire; that Mariposa-Marty match was off the charts good and this week was even better between the tag match and Pentagon-Reklusa, which was at worst a notch below Marty-Mariposa (and may have been better depending on your mileage). Even the stuff like Taya-Matanza and Ricky Mundo's squash of Famous B did a good job to set things up going forward. I was not one of the people who agreed with Trips when he mentioned how maybe LU was better off with Pentagon chasing for the title instead of having it, but after these last few weeks I think he may very well have been right. Pentagon looks refreshed, Marty has been off the charts, Reklusa has been one hell of an addition (a damn shame she's probably going to WWE, even though the only one reporting it is an unreliable source) and the Fenix angle (which was the best thing LU had prior to all this) is gaining more steam. Oh, and Ultima Lucha IV looks killer. It's been a rougher season compared to the last three (though still enjoyable for the most part) but LU seems to finally be getting hot at the right time. Thank goodness!


  34. #194
    The Brain
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,732
    Ultima Lucha IV looks killer. It's been a rougher season compared to the last three (though still enjoyable for the most part) but LU seems to finally be getting hot at the right time.
    Super strongly agree with this, UL4 looks absolutely awesome and every episode starting with where Marty won the belt has been really good. If we can just get some movement on the big threads which have been dormant this season, like the big evil conspiracy that hangs over everything and the Penta/Vampiro relationship as well, I'll be over the moon with the final stretch of this season.

  35. #195
    Jake Strong showing his acting skills are the same they were in WWE. I actually don’t mind his push but that was some terrible acting. He just looks so unnatural.

    Great to see Dante Fox return. Crowd kind of turned on Strong when he fought Fox at the end of the battle royal. Half the show was booked to push Strong. Shocked Johnny tapped.
    Last edited by comfortablynumb; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:58 PM.

  36. #196
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    509
    So, just for a fun theory - I think Strong has the gauntlet. It's the only way this works for me. He's being shown as overpowered but with no back story as to why, but we know Cuerno doesn't have the gauntlet any more despite stealing it at UL3. Maybe Strong bought it off him or something?

  37. #197
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    193
    Cuerno told Catrina in episode two he gave the gauntlet to someone who sent it back in time. I suppose it could be Strong but it was strongly applied Aerostar was the guy Cuerno was talking about. There's also still a scene from the trailer we haven't seen yet where Cuerno, Aerostar and El Dragon Azteca Jr. are discussing what to do with the gauntlet and another scene that shows Johnny Mundo with it. None of this makes it impossible for Strong to have it but it seems unlikely.

    Having said that, there is definitely something more with Strong. The way he acted towards the end of that Cueto meeting, first with telling Cueto this was now his Temple and then the change in his voice, is telling. Maybe the former is him just being a cocky heel but given all the forces looking to control LU within the show it's not something that can just be dismissed. And the voice change (and it was noticeable how much deeper and demonic his voice got) is definitely a sign something is going on. I have three potential guesses; Strong has been possessed much like Cage was in season three (by the gauntlet or something else), he's working with a still alive Dario Cueto to take back the Temple, he's a member of the Lord and Agent Winter's group, he's Vampiro's sensei or (and this would be my preferred one) he's the Lord himself. It's definitely one of those scenarios, I just don't know which it is. I take it we'll know before the end of the season though because there's another scene from the trailer we haven't seen yet that shows him screaming, with blood on his chest in the place he does his "Strong" chant.



  38. #198
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    509
    Man, Cult you made me go back to the trailer and a) I'd forgotten the Aerostat/Cuerno/Azteca gauntlet discussion, ii) I'd forgotten the bit where Munro has the gauntlet, and 3) look at this and tell me Strong isn't hitting himself with the gauntlet:

    Screenshot_20181020-200851.jpg

    If this is how it works out, all I can do is eat a small serving of humble pie. LU have got me to the point where I'm discussing the person I'm least interested in on the show potentially turning into the person I'm most interested in on the show, at least from a character perspective. Plus there's now, what, four weeks to pay off the gauntlet travelling back through time and ending up back in the present day with Strong via Mundo.

    My guess on that is something like Mundo getting it in order to gain a leg up on Matanza, who we suspect is off anyway (correct? NJPW stuff?) so taking him out in the sacrifice match courtesy of gauntlet power and extreme parkour, then it somehow falling to Strong. But equally I do want it to turn out that Strong has been gauntlet powered all series and as a result has incredibly powerful arms so can break ankles.
    Last edited by Oliver; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:18 PM.

  39. #199
    If all that's true, you'd have to figure Strong vs. Pentagon is the goal for Ultima Lucha 5? Bone breaker match.

  40. #200
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    193
    If Antonio is going to keep the "cash in Gift of the Gods at any time" rule then it's feasible that it could happen at Ultima Lucha IV, although I'm not sold on Strong winning the Gift of the Gods next week. We'll see. Regardless, a Pentagon-Strong feud is definitely going to happen at some point, it's just a question of when.

    That's an excellent catch Ollie; I noticed there was blood on Strong's shirt in that clip but not that he had the gauntlet. I thought, after we didn't get the scene early, that Mundo getting the gauntlet would be in the final montage of the season, but that definitely gives me pause. I'll offer a slightly different possibility then Strong taking the glove from Mundo though; what if instead he takes it from Matanza? As you pointed out he is seemingly out the door at LU. I can say he's been granted a release, but even with the ROH deal he could come back and has indicated he may unless he gets a WWE deal (which he won't; WWE thinks he's too small and lacks charisma). Regardless, he's going to be written off for now and the blood on Strong during that scene indicates that he's taking the gauntlet in a deadly way, something that wouldn't fit Mundo (who is sticking around for as long as LU is around). So I'll suggest that while Mundo gets the glove this upcoming week to combat Matanza, Matanza will then take the glove from Mundo after their match, followed by Strong taking it and killing Matanza afterwards.

    You gotta love the way LU has handled this either way. Keep in mind that the gauntlet was sent back in time by Aerostar and we know it's going to wind up in the hands of Mundo and Strong. Answer this; who came to Mundo's aid earlier this year against the Reptile Tribe, and who did Mundo do a favor for by freeing Drago afterwards? Also, who did Strong just stop feuding with? The answer is Aerostar. There are no coincidences in Lucha Underground; I've seen enough of the show to know that. I'd bet that Mundo knows how to find the gauntlet because Aerostar, returning the favor Mundo did for him, gave him the location. The Strong connection I'm not as sure about but that Aerostar-Mundo thing makes too much sense. And if that is the case, then LU has been playing some brilliant 4D Chess all along.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •