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  1. #41
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    No one wants that to happen.

  2. #42
    As it should be. Macho Mourn's Avatar
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    And? Cody's a heel. Like he cares about that.

    “Stoop to your own level. Your nature. Trust yourself. And most importantly... You have to learn what laws are really laws and not… Oppression."

  3. #43
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    Haha, it's possible, but I think that'd be less "good heel heat" and more "fuck this booking" heat.

  4. #44
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    The only, and I mean only, way Cody possibly gets involved here is if they tease him coming out to throw in the towel like he did last year, only the Bucks stop him with some super kicks. That's it. Otherwise you won't see him till after the match, where they set up him vs. Kenny for the Cow Palace.


  5. #45
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    its just not something New Japan does especially considering how the stakes are raised for the match.. Of course, Cody could interfere if you took all the characters motivations into play.. but then you also don't really have another match for Okada.

    This isn't a promotion that runs shit back over and over lol.

  6. #46
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    IF they were going to have Cody interfere, I think I'd do it to cost Omega the first fall - get it in quickly, get done with it, but still let the two guys work the next couple of falls straight down the middle.

    Of course, the better way to do it is to have Ibushi kick his face into row Z for turning up.

  7. #47
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    I'd be fine with the first fall or second fall have some interference.. i know others who won't like it but you can't have the falls be the same or its gonna be a 3 hour match lol. I'm just against Cody or anyone really deciding the last fall. It would be a slap in the face of New Japan fans tbh.

  8. #48
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    Dominion looks like an amazing show. I'm a little disappointed in the six-man they are doing; would have far preferred Page (who is growing by leaps and bounds this year) taking on ZSJ, Cody vs. Ibushi III, Rey vs. Liger one on one, and Suzuki vs. Ishii one on one. I don't need Yano or Tanahashi on the card. Tana is still really good, but he should take some actual time off to recover and return for WK. You might say increasing the matches by 2 would make the card really long, but I don't care how long a card is if it's really good. I'll already being staying up until 6 a.m. to watch it all the way through; what's another hour?

  9. #49
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    Reposting in the right thread:

    Dominion looks like an amazing show. I'm a little disappointed in the six-man they are doing; would have far preferred Page (who is growing by leaps and bounds this year) taking on ZSJ, Cody vs. Ibushi III, Rey vs. Liger one on one, and Suzuki vs. Ishii one on one. I don't need Yano or Tanahashi on the card. Tana is still really good, but he should take some actual time off to recover and return for WK. You might say increasing the matches by 2 would make the card really long, but I don't care how long a card is if it's really good. I'll already being staying up until 6 a.m. to watch it all the way through; what's another hour?

  10. #50
    As it should be. Macho Mourn's Avatar
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    XanMan...

    "what's another hour?

    You must hate those in attendance.

    “Stoop to your own level. Your nature. Trust yourself. And most importantly... You have to learn what laws are really laws and not… Oppression."

  11. #51
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    If they can't sit for an extra hour of fantastic wrestling, they shouldn't be going. I don't hate anyone, but I don't feel sympathy or empathy for people I have never met. I am probably going to be at the arena for nine total hours next weekend and I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for me about that!

  12. #52
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    New Japan wants everyone that's available on the show though, they always have.. Plus, more singles matches and not only does it become really long, it also lessens importance of those singles matches on a show when the biggest match in a good while is taking place in the main event. Actually one time i agree with less singles.

  13. #53
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    NINE HOURS!? Jesus, what card is that? There's a reason I haven't gone to a show I'm not booked on in years. I don't have an entire workday worth of time to dedicate to watching wrestling.

  14. #54
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    Think he's talking about Money in the bank, coach. And exaggerating a bit. It will only be 7 hours lols.

  15. #55
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    I'm going to both Money in the Bank and Takeover: Chicago II, so I expect I'll be in the arena around 9 hours total.

  16. #56
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    Man, I feel like if I went to one of those shows I'd probably do like I do with the stream. Show up 20 minutes before the show is slated to begin and skip all the pre-show bullshit. I'd probably skip the tapings before Takeover, too. But I just don't have the patience to sit in an uncomfortable seat shoulder to shoulder with the person next to me for that long.

  17. #57
    As it should be. Macho Mourn's Avatar
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    9 hours is entirely too long for any single one event where you must occupy a chair. I don't get how that could even be close to comfortable. heck, 7 hours as well.

    Happy you like being there that long. I guarantee you are in the extreme minority.

    “Stoop to your own level. Your nature. Trust yourself. And most importantly... You have to learn what laws are really laws and not… Oppression."

  18. #58
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    While being in attendance at this year's Wrestle Kingdom was awesome, I didn't particularly enjoy being in my seat for about six hours, maybe more since I arrived just before the Rumble began. I was just drained by the end of it and went straight to my hotel room and crashed instantly.

    I'll be at Dominion tomorrow and considering it will start at 4:00 PM, I'm thinking the event will go over five hours long - I'm sure it'll be one hell of a show but I can't say I'm looking forward to spending that amount of time sitting in a small uncomfortable seat.

  19. #59
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    I don't mind a show being long really and i'm not in the arena but i do want to watch dominion live, at least the important matches cause i don't want to know when Omega/Okada ends. its one of those in the moment things and as such, i don't want a crowd to die cause they've rose and fall for five hours. Sure, they won't turn on it like WWE crowds but its still important to pace a show so that the people aren't dying to leave when the main starts. There's a balance to be had.

    Another reason why i don't think the main is going really really long.

  20. #60
    As it should be. Macho Mourn's Avatar
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    Final card for tonight:

    IWGP HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP (2 OUT OF 3 FALLS/NO TIME LIMIT)
    Kazuchika Okada (c) vs. Kenny Omega

    IWGP INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMPIONSHIP
    Tetsuya Naito (c) vs. Chris Jericho

    IWPG JR. HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP
    Will Ospreay (c) vs. Hiromu Takahashi

    IWGP TAG TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP
    EVIL and SANADA (c) vs. The Young Bucks

    NEVER OPENWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP
    Hirooki Goto (c) vs. Michael Elgin vs. Taichi

    IWGP JR. HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP
    El Desperado and Yoshinobu Kanemaru (c) vs. SHO and YOH

    David Finlay and Juice Robinson vs. YOSHI-HASHI and Jay White

    Toru Yano and Tomohiro Ishii vs. Zack Sabre Jr. and Minoru Suzuki

    Rey Mysterio, Jushin Thunder Liger, and Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Marty Scurll, Hangman Page, and Cody

    “Stoop to your own level. Your nature. Trust yourself. And most importantly... You have to learn what laws are really laws and not… Oppression."

  21. #61
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    Those top three matches... Can't wait.

    Happy Dominion Day, everyone!

  22. #62
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    Kinda excited for the Bucks/ vs Evil/Sanada match as well.

    Have fun Deg

  23. #63
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    These are by far the best seats I've ever had at a wrestling show.





    I'm just super-excited for this.
    Last edited by Degenerate; 06-09-2018 at 02:18 AM.

  24. #64
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    That's awesome, dude! I'm watching on a 100 inch screen, but still jealous.

  25. #65
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    That was special. So, so special.

  26. #66
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    Wasn't it, though?

  27. #67
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    So amazing. Excited for the things to come. The main event was so epic and had the perfect pace. The other title matches were different from each other and all delivered. bring on the Cow palace show.

    Omega's vision for wrestling is why i still bother.
    Last edited by LK3185; 06-09-2018 at 08:19 AM.

  28. #68
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    So, so lucky to have experienced that in person.



    EDIT: Lots of personal thoughts about the show now that they're fresh in my brain:

    - The new CEO of the company has immediately endeared himself to the Japanese fans. His Japanese is excellent, much better than Kenny Omega (who even I noticed saying one or two things incorrectly in his post-match promo).
    - Minoru Suzuki is an absolute frightening human up close when he's performing. He was just a few feet in front of me during part of the post-match brawl and I was just scared he would come my way. By far the most believable guy in wrestling to me.
    - Suzuki and Zack Sabre Jr. make one hell of a team, I dig them a lot. That double submission they did on Yano was awesome.
    - Michael Elgin was in tremendous shape. When he took off his jacket / robe my jaw dropped. He seems to have shed a lot of fat and gained muscle which I didn't think was possible. I don't know when that transformation happened but last time.i saw him he definitely wasn't in that good of shape.
    - I admittedly never paid much attention to Taichi's valet outside of her looks, but she's actually decent in her role, at least tonight. Her facial expressions whenever Taichi was getting beat down were good, and she looked inconsolable when he lost. It look like she even tried seducing Elgin before the match began (which is weird to see knowing what we know about Elgin nowadays).
    - The Young Bucks are pretty amazing - I got really sucked in to the story of Nick's foot throughout the match and popped huge when they got the win together. Evil and Sanada deserve huge props for their role in that match too, they were great.
    - I don't know how it looked on TV but Will Ospreay took way too many nasty direct bumps to the head and neck. I can't see that guy being over 35 without any major physical issues. He's so good but it just kinda pains me to see all the crazy stuff he does.
    - Chris Jericho's role in New Japan is awesome, but I kinda thought that he didn't mesh very well with Naito. There were a lot of spots where they seemed to not be on the same page. Not sure if it was a communication issue or physical issues or what, but some parts looked odd from where I was. Still a good match in any case.
    - Kenny Omega almost killed me. In the spot where he got on the barricade to do his moonsault and Okada shoved him forward, that was right where I was and he almost landed right on my lap. I haven't watched the replay yet but if you spotted a dude in a white shirt, that was me.
    - Gedo is annoying as hell, shouting non-stop for the entirety of the main event. Also, his beard distracted me much more than it should have.

    I'm sure I have more notes but I'm drained. It was a long event, but definitely worth it. Hope everyone enjoyed it as much as I did.

    EDIT 2: I forgot to mention, I almost got spit by Naito. He spit into the crowd and his loogie landed less than 3 feet next to me. Part of his spit did land on the dude's leg sitting next to me. I was pretty pissed about it.
    Last edited by Degenerate; 06-09-2018 at 11:08 PM.

  29. #69
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    Sounds like you had an ace time, Gen, Naito spit aside.

    Researches, and I think the 2/3 falls match was the best of the series Okada and Omega have had. Everything felt a bit crisper than before, there was tonnes of story in there that, for example, match one lacked, it didn't slow down too much like match two, and worked slightly better for me than match three (which is an entirely personal thing, I think - I loved match three, but think while it worked well in the context of Okada's G1 it wasn't necessarily great in terms of their feud).

    Point being, if I've rated their first and third matches at 6/5, and their second at 6.25/5, I think this has to go higher than both. Meltzer's going to break his rating scale again, and while I know that's not the be all and end all I think it's incredible that these two are going to do it again.

  30. #70
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    I just noticed that I meant to say in my previous post that the guy who got spit on by Naito was pretty pissed about it, not me. I probably would have been if it landed right on me, though.

    I think based on what Meltzer has been saying online since Dominion, he's going to rate this match higher than the previous matches. I rewatched the match twice already in the last few days and I wouldn't blame him if he broke is rating system again. It was such a great match.

    I'm surprised no one else has been talking about that match here! It was good! Let's chat about it! Or go watch it right now if you haven't!

  31. #71
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    I was away this weekend, got back yesterday arvo, spent it with the wife but first thing on my list today was to watch it. I didn't know the ending and it was phenomenal. I'm keen to watch it again but I am so impressed at how NJPW has basically beaten WWE at their own game with the week-by-week Elite/Bullet Club story that has been going on for the last 6 months while staying true to their more traditional long term rivalry style for feuding between Okada & Omega. I think I'm actually going to try and write a column about it tonight even.

    I think I need to rewatch the match itself to get more out of it as I was very much living in the moment on first view but I sure noticed a lot of throwbacks to their two previous matches.

    What story bits did you get out of it?

    I'm gona be looking for you on that re-watch Degen, they look like insanely good seats.

  32. #72
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    I spotted myself on screen a handful of times. You'll have a better chance at spotting me where Okada pushed Omega off the guardrail into the crowd that I mentioned, and where Omega did the springboard cross body from the ring onto Okada on the outside (which I had to hastily get my ass off my seat for like 5 seconds before Omega jumped). It's always cool to see oneself on screen.

    There were a few nice callbacks to their previous matches. My favorite was Omega being so drained that he collapsed on the ropes causing Okada to miss a dropkick. But they were so scattered that I didn't even notice them until after re-watching or reading about it. That's the thing that amazed me the most about the match. Even though these guys have fought each other in three matches totaling over two hours of in-ring action in which they pulled out as many stops as possible, they still managed to get an hour-plus match that felt like it was completely new.

    One thing I wanted to mention to see how others felt about is is the two-minute break between falls. I felt like the breaks helped a ton in the pacing of the match. It gave the three matches its own distinct feeling. I was unaware there would be breaks, and when it was announced after the first pin I was thinking that it was a mistake for them to do that because it would make things die down a little. But it actually did the opposite - the crowd seemed to have gotten hotter, especially after the second fall.

    Man, after talking here more I want to watch the match one more time. I haven't felt like this about a match for a long, long time.

  33. #73
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    I loved the callback to his G1 final match with Goto where he did the moves of Ibushi, Balor and AJ Styles. I didn't catch a Bloody Sunday but there was the Styles Clash and the Phoenix Splash was quite a big moment. It fitted that he would go back to that wheelhouse here where he had to pull out all stops to finally beat Okada.

    With the collapsing, if I remember rightly I think there was a moment where Okada collapsed while trying to pull off the Rainmaker just like when Omega collapsed, avoiding it last year.

    I agree that the two minute breaks were really effective in pacing, it was super cool the difference between the two where in the first Omega was kind of wondering what happened while Okada was just the picture of confidence, Don Callis emphasised that bit really well on commentary, talking about how it would have thrown their strategy. In the second one it was different by also cool how Gedo was stalling for time and Kenny just exploded into Okada when the bell rang, reminded me of an actual MMA match where that happened.

    I'm really glad that they resisted the urge to having Ibushi/Bucks/Cody drama play a big part, it cast a shadow over the whole match but it made it more triumphant for not having them get involved some how.

  34. #74
    Super Moderator Team Farrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Degenerate View Post
    One thing I wanted to mention to see how others felt about is is the two-minute break between falls. I felt like the breaks helped a ton in the pacing of the match. It gave the three matches its own distinct feeling. I was unaware there would be breaks, and when it was announced after the first pin I was thinking that it was a mistake for them to do that because it would make things die down a little. But it actually did the opposite - the crowd seemed to have gotten hotter, especially after the second fall.
    The first fall I hated it, probably because I wasn't expecting it. Then the second fall where they were they did that awesome bit of storytelling that Sam mentioned with Gedo stalling to let Okada recover was great.

    The whole show was really strong. The Bucks tag team match with that incredible sell job by Nick was great.

    The only real "down" point was the Jericho-Niato match. I didn't think that the match was bad, and I like the wild brawl elements at the beginning, but there seemed to just be some miscues. The Destino attempt right off the top I'll chalk up to Niato trying it in his suit, but then the finish got fucked. How's Niato's English? Heading into that finish, after the first Destino got messed up they went into their little punch exchange (and I loved Niato not selling and slapping the piss out of Jericho when his punch totally whiffed) Jericho had to literally stand in position with his back to Niato to telegraph the move. I wonder if that's an issue with a language barrier (if you can't call something, telegraphing it is the next best thing) or if after two fuck ups Jericho just decided to make extra sure this last one was going to work.

    Awesome show from top to bottom though. Even the legends vs Bullet Club six man which felt like a throw away match was a lot of fun.

  35. #75
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    I broke this down about on the LOPR show I did, but Omega vs Okada was fantastic. I felt like in order for it to fit the rivalry, Okada had to win the first fall. The way he did it left every single person in the arena--including the character of Omega thinking he was walking out with the title. A 2/3 no-time limit match where Okada wins the first fall without hitting the Rainmaker? Fuhgeddabout it. Then, in the second fall where he countered a sunset flip attempt with the exact same cradle? Man, really preying on our emotions. The dive you're talking about, Deg, where you had to move; that was a great callback to the Tokyo Dome match. So was the attempted back body drop onto the table. The dropkicks Omega still can't avoid made me yell, "Goddammit" at the screen several times; including once when Callis did it. The chops being the equalizer for Omega in this one were a nice touch.

    What I loved the most, though, might have been the arrogance of Okada after the first fall when his victory has energized him and demoralized Omega. Omega's chops don't have a lot on them anymore; partially because maybe he just doesn't have the stamina he was bragging about and partially because he is down 1 fall to zero without even been hit with a finisher yet. The look Okada has on his face like, "You poor, poor mortal fool" is priceless and engaging; you just want to see it smacked off of him. The collapse of Omega at the dropkick spot and the Rainmaker Okada couldn't follow through on were other things that made this match really special, along with both the Rainmaker to start the 3rd fall with Okada crawling over just like the end of the match a year ago and the snap-Angel too close to the ropes. This time, of course, Omega realized it, hit another trigger, and finished off the champ. I have only had the opportunity to watch it once, but I really want to take a day soon and watch the entire trilogy.

  36. #76
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    LOVE Deg's live experience report, looks like you had an amazing time man!

  37. #77
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    In the Naito one my take away is that Jericho was showing Naito what it truly means to not give a fuck.

    I've largely got this story from others and added the Jericho stuff on but my impression was that Naito came back and truly didn't care which reaped him the IC Title and G1 but on the road to Wrestle Kingdom he slowly let the crowd and his popularity get to his head. At WK he lost himself the main event because he wanted to relive the days of his Stardust Genius character. In this match he tried to put up a facade of not caring, spitting and dragging the belt but deep down he kept fighting back with the crowds cheers.

    Jericho on the other hand doesn't care about a thing, his years as part of a the corporate WWE machine have left him a burnt out husk of malevolence, all he wants to do is hurt those who have a chance to express themselves outside of that machine, as his theme song says: "I will drag you down and sell you out".

    He said he was going to get Naito truly ready to win the IWGP title and he did so by showing him how he needs to be if he is truly going to be tranquilo.

  38. #78
    Puerto Rican dude living in Japan Degenerate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirSam View Post
    I'm really glad that they resisted the urge to having Ibushi/Bucks/Cody drama play a big part, it cast a shadow over the whole match but it made it more triumphant for not having them get involved some how.
    A million times yes. I was dreading some involvement by either Cody, the Bucks, or even Ibushi just because he was just clenching onto the towel throughout the entirety of the bout. But I'm eternally grateful they just had this straight-up one-on-one bout.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    The Bucks tag team match with that incredible sell job by Nick was great.
    Again, a million times yes. It's unfortunate that the Bucks' performance is almost forgotten due to that main event, but I loved almost everything about that tag team bout.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Farrell View Post
    The only real "down" point was the Jericho-Niato match.
    I mentioned before that I feel the same way. I've been surprised that some people elsewhere have been giving this match rave reviews. I haven't had a chance to see the replay of the match to see how it came off on screen, but in person the match felt off to me. I'm still trying to process it, wondering if it was just bad communication before / during the match, over-hyped expectations on my part, or a poor pairing between the two. It was also following that awesome Jr. Heavyweight title match, so that probably didn't help matters either. It was still good, and the surprise ending (at least to me) was welcome, but for a semi-main event match I just feel it didn't deliver.

    Quote Originally Posted by XanMan View Post
    I broke this down about on the LOPR show I did, but Omega vs Okada was fantastic. I felt like in order for it to fit the rivalry, Okada had to win the first fall. The way he did it left every single person in the arena--including the character of Omega thinking he was walking out with the title. A 2/3 no-time limit match where Okada wins the first fall without hitting the Rainmaker? Fuhgeddabout it. Then, in the second fall where he countered a sunset flip attempt with the exact same cradle? Man, really preying on our emotions. The dive you're talking about, Deg, where you had to move; that was a great callback to the Tokyo Dome match. So was the attempted back body drop onto the table. The dropkicks Omega still can't avoid made me yell, "Goddammit" at the screen several times; including once when Callis did it. The chops being the equalizer for Omega in this one were a nice touch.

    What I loved the most, though, might have been the arrogance of Okada after the first fall when his victory has energized him and demoralized Omega. Omega's chops don't have a lot on them anymore; partially because maybe he just doesn't have the stamina he was bragging about and partially because he is down 1 fall to zero without even been hit with a finisher yet. The look Okada has on his face like, "You poor, poor mortal fool" is priceless and engaging; you just want to see it smacked off of him. The collapse of Omega at the dropkick spot and the Rainmaker Okada couldn't follow through on were other things that made this match really special, along with both the Rainmaker to start the 3rd fall with Okada crawling over just like the end of the match a year ago and the snap-Angel too close to the ropes. This time, of course, Omega realized it, hit another trigger, and finished off the champ. I have only had the opportunity to watch it once, but I really want to take a day soon and watch the entire trilogy.
    These two paragraphs are honestly the best I've read on this match. Beautifully put.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    LOVE Deg's live experience report, looks like you had an amazing time man!
    I did! I'm super-fortunate to have been able to go. Looking forward to next year's show already!

  39. #79
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    Thanks, Deg.

    I haven't read the rave reviews to which you are referring for Jericho/Naito, but I think it was around a **** match. Did it have the crispness one would normally like? No, but it, too preyed on our emotions. It was actually the perfect type of match for the spot it was in. This bout was sandwiched between a Jr Heavyweight Title match full of high spots that excited the crowd and a match that may have been the most anticipated in NJPW history. The filler had to be solid, but also bring the crowd down between the two so that Omega/Okada could resonate when it was hitting its highest highs.

    The way it started out shocked the crowd and brought it down immediately. The beatdown Jericho gives Naito leaves no doubt Jericho is walking out with the title, as Mr. Tranquilo is beaten before the match even starts. Then, just like Lesnar vs. Styles from Survivor Series '17, the sick bastard in complete control underestimates his advantage and makes a small mistake. Once the door is opened for Naito, he pours on the offense and we think (which Osaka despises) that the champion has a chance, after all. He has more than a chance, as he begins to dominate Jericho the way he was dominated. The hero in the story--but the villain in the arena--is going to be triumphant, after all. Except Jericho isn't just vicious; he's also wily. He's that southpaw who has been saving his devastating forkball for when he needs it to put away the most dangerous hitter on the other team with the game on the line. He finishes their assault on our emotions with a low blow, a second code-breaker, and Naito's reign comes to a disappointingly early, screeching halt, as our hearts drop. The story was exactly what was needed for the semi-main of this show. Give it another chance.

  40. #80
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    I, too, love that call back to the end of the first fall being in the second fall. I actually thought they laid the whole match out perfectly - the first falll was great, but not enormously laden with storytelling based on their previous matches. It almost felt like a very extended feeling out process between the two of them, and the ending played into that. Not giving Okada a pinfall with the Rainmaker left that open to create doubt for the rest of the match, which was a stupendous decision. And then the second falll dialled everything up, call backs to the first fall, call backs to their other matches, call backs to even near falls of other matches I think. It's the fall I actually liked the most of the three because of alll that. And then for fall three they just turned it all up to 11 - maybe even beyond 11 - and delivered some great pro-wrestling which was two guys throwing the best they had at each other and neither one wanting to die.

    Okada needing to prove himself because he's the Ace and won't say die. Omega needing to prove himself because four years ago he left DDT to pursue international acclaim and bided his time while others were in his way. Just the perfect coming together.

    I loved it all.

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