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Thread: Kevin Owens

  1. #121
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    No, they don't.

  2. #122
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    Can we stop arguing about Kevin "this time the push is real, I can feel it!" Owens and focus on what we're getting Prince Puma and Maria for the baby shower?


  3. #123
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    Probably not in the Kevin Owens thread

  4. #124
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    Hey, if we can have a five day long wrestling philosophy discussion in the NXT UK thread then we can discuss what to get Puma and Maria for the baby shower in the "Stone Cold if Stone Cold was less like Stone Cold and more like the New York Mets" Kevin Owens thread.


  5. #125
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    I missed most of the segment backstage where Maria apparently claimed to say Ricochet was the father, but I did see the match. It was decent story telling, but nothing of a match. The Rusev return was much more interesting.

    As for Owens being a lamer Stone Cold, all I know if I'm interested in seeing the follow up to the story. Will Shane re-instate KO? Will KO end up on Raw or NXT instead? It's certainly not the most exciting thing KO has been involved in, but I'd say it's the most focused since the Festival of Friendship, and with Kofi just not clicking in the ring as WWE Champ, creating the next hero is smart.

    And Shane as the heel who fines his enemies more than anyone else... is consistent, despite for Powder thinks. KO attacked a friend of Shane, it wasn't an accident. Becky swung for Sasha, but hit a no-name referee instead. If you can't see why the story would lead to a harsher fine for KO, then you're not going to like wresting.

  6. #126
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    ...for fucks sake man! I'm trying to have some fun here and you come in with your seriousness to derail the Kevin "Pen approves so it's working!" Owens thread.


  7. #127
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    It's working for me, and it's getting KO some decent reactions. But, I can't say it's working overall. It's a tired story, and fans are smarter than they were in 1998 when it was fresh. And a big part of what made Stone Cold click were the moments where he just shocked everyone with his beatings/stunners. Other than the original stunner that Shane sold as well as Khali would have, Owens has been the one beaten down more often than winning any week. He'll be fined, then he'll be screwed out of the KOTR, then Shane fired him. KO needs to exact some sort of revenge instead of looking like a beta cuck (I laughed so hard when Graves said that about Mike Kanellis).

  8. #128
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    Shots fired by Pen in the Kevin "I may be as big a cuck as Mike fucking Bennett" Owens thread.
    Last edited by Cult Icon; 09-16-2019 at 11:59 PM.


  9. #129
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    Personally I want to see Kevin Owens show up at the McMahon thanksgiving dinner and shove the turkey over Shane's head before stunning him. Or just any kind of random appearance of violence as Shane goes about his day - brawling when he's getting the kids from school, a rehash of the Booker/Austin supermarket thing, a little league baseball field, just everywhere.

    I honestly don't give a shit about this storytelling consistency stuff with fines etc etc. If I want storyline/character consistency, I'll go and watch The Wire.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    I honestly don't give a shit about this storytelling consistency stuff with fines etc etc. If I want storyline/character consistency, I'll go and watch The Wire.
    I do care, at least a bit. Mainly because if those elements aren't included you're only able to appeal to that section of fans who don't care. But I'm surprised anyone who cares still watches. It's not like it is a new development.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  11. #131
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    I mean, has WWE ever been consistent in terms of fining/punishments and so on? On screen, I mean, as opposed to backstage.

    Maybe I'm alone in it, but I'm not sure I really go in to WWE expecting to see consistency - especially in different storylines, where the fines are different in therms of what they're trying to get across.

  12. #132
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    There was a much greater degree of consistency pre-Attitude. I'm not going to say it was 100%, of course, but there was at least an attempt to pay lip service to the idea of consistency, even if it was usually just throwaway comments by the announcers and on the smaller shows. You could basically sum it up as a quick attack on another wrestler would probably just get condemnation, a prolonged attack or an attack on an official would draw *some* sort of talk of fines and suspensions. Once McMahon goes full heel after Wrestlemania, of course all bets are off from that point on.

    I don't think you're alone in not expecting to see it, for what it's worth. I do think it's part of the reason fewer people watch now, but it goes back to a) how long it's been, and b) the fans who are left obviously being the ones most OK with what has been shown for the last decade or more.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    I honestly don't give a shit about this storytelling consistency stuff with fines etc etc. If I want storyline/character consistency, I'll go and watch The Wire.
    Why do you not care? Consistency is one of the things that could make the WWE a better overall product. I have not watched the Wire, but some of the stuff that caused me to stop watching TWD was the lack of consistency. Maggie is pregnant for less than 3 months but Judith ages over a year? The show is on air 8 years but the time table of the show (before I gave up) was less than 2.5 years? Please, it was insulting.

    Now I know this is the WWE, and prior to that it was the WWF. I have been watching for nearly 40 years and I understand everything, but in today's market, and today's world, things need to change and evolve to appeal. The WWE is clearly less cartoony with less true superheroes and true villains. We still get good guys and bad guys, but both blur the lines between right and wrong.

    Again as I have stated repeatedly, the WWE is a scripted TV show that pretends to be a real sporting event. You can still be the WWE but if you want to move forward with your product, then one major suggestion is to be consistent within the rules and laws that you have created in your universe. You can still have the heels break all the laws, but they cannot always get away with it. Just be consistent.

    Look in every major sport. There is replay. Hell we get instant replay mid f'n match, but the WWE cannot use replay to determine when a guys foot is on or under the rope during a match? DO NOT use replay when a ref's back is turned or being distracted, that is pro wrestling 101, and should be kept in.

    If the WWE wants to pretend it is a real sport, then incorporate real things into the product to evolve. Consistency is one, replay could be another. I am not calling for pro wrestling to stop being pro wrestling, but insulting your audience is a way to lose people, and I am losing interest. I know that the WWE is not going to lose any sleep if I cancel my subscription or stop watching, but I have stuck with the company since Hogan beat The Sheik, and I want the show to evolve more than it already has.

    Eras change, and now is a time for more change to happen.

  14. #134
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    The obvious point that you're obviously missing is that this is consistent in its inconsistency. Was it fair and consistent when Vinny Mac would threaten to fire Austin at every turn? Or when HHH forced Roman Reigns to enter at #1 of the Rumble to defend his title? If you want to look outside WWE, then when NWO Bischoff messed with WCW? Or Dario Cueto with face wrestlers in the Temple?

    Consistency in WWE is definitely something we all would agree is needed. I think a better argument would be how Becky lost by DQ for swinging a chair at Sasha, but hit the ref instead, when wrestling has had accidental ref bumps have had the DQ ignored for decades.

    This example is just a poor one. If there's anything WWE should work on here it's to not tell the exact same story over and over. That's what needs to evolve and change. But Shane wouldn't be much of a heel if he dropped the fine to match Becky's, nor would it be very fair if Becky's was raised to KO's level. Owens maliciously attacked an official. Becky's was an accident. They aren't equal examples of ref injuries, so the punishments shouldn't be equal either.

  15. #135
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    Vince would threaten to fire more than just Austin. In fact he did. I cannot remember off hand who, but his catch phrase for a few years was "You're Fired". Vince fired a bunch of people and abused his power all the time. BUT he got his comeuppance all the time. How many stunners did Vince eat? Vince would get laid out by more than just Austin as well.

    When HHH made Reigns enter at #1, is heel authority figure 101. Stick it to the faces, but let me ask you to that point: Did HHH prevent reigns from being in the Rumble? No, but he tried to make it hard for Reigns to win.

    And with Bischoff and the nWo, well we all know what eventually happened with them. They did too much and with everybody, and they lost viewers just as fast as they got them. So much so that they lost the company. So what ended up happening was that WCW milked the same idea for 4 years straight and it got boring and insulting and the fans left. The nWo truly changed the business, regardless of how the WWE wants to say that DX and Austin did, it was the Hall, Nash, and Hogan with the nWo. But then they did not evolve out of the nWo and caused fans to leave. But yes, in the early stages Bischoff favored the nWo, but they did eventually got theirs through Luger AND Sting.
    Last edited by Powder; 09-17-2019 at 08:25 AM.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEN15v2 View Post
    Consistency in WWE is definitely something we all would agree is needed. I think a better argument would be how Becky lost by DQ for swinging a chair at Sasha, but hit the ref instead, when wrestling has had accidental ref bumps have had the DQ ignored for decades.
    .
    I don't know the exact example for obvious reasons but this is the sort of thing that really used to bother me. Heel GMs and the like didn't bother me so much for consistency (although sometimes they'd be overridden by face authorities and sometimes they wouldn't with little rhyme or reason, and that could be irritating) but because the whole thing has been played out so many times over that I just don't buy it anymore.

    To be fair, I think when you get through the convolution Powder might have a decent point, even if this isn't the best example/argument/hill to die on.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  17. #137
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    The thing is, there are different types of consistency, and I think I may have misspoken above when talking about character/storytelling consistency - that's key for WWE.

    Minor details like fines and their level, I couldn't care less about, are really minor, and not really deserving of this much discourse - especially as they're being used as a storytelling device in the Owens/McMahon example. But the actual core points in terms of character motivations and actions I very much care about having a level of consistency. I'm not sure WWE is great at it, but when it is it's terrific programming.

  18. #138
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    Hmm... I'm not sure you can split the two as neatly as that, personally. The one necessarily impacts on the other, even if as I say, this is a pretty weird place to take your stand.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  19. #139
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    The fines was the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back. The real issue is consistency in the laws and rules created in the WWE’s universe. Be consistent with your own set rules, and hold everyone accountable for said rules. Have an impartial person to evaluate when rules are broken, similar to the the NHL, when all replays go through Toronto, or MLB, where the replays go through an offfield umpire etc.

    Heel authority figures should still exist and favor the heels, but when rules are blatantly broken or disregarded, an “independent” commissioner like a jack Tunney, would be perfect

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    The show is on air 8 years but the time table of the show (before I gave up) was less than 2.5 years? Please, it was insulting.
    Just gonna touch on this real quick because it is a very flawed argument/example. Do you really expect all shows/movies to happen in real time? Do you think it was insulting in Avengers: End Game that everything was neatly wrapped up in three hours as opposed to making an actual five year long movie?

  21. #141
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    Clearly no, but Avengers time jumped 5 years, and were flexible with the time constraints of the time travel. Then the actual timeline once the time jump happened was a few days to weeks, if that long.

    Lang coming back to to Stark's cabin was maybe a few hours to a few days at most. Then from the cabin to when Stark returned was probably a few days to weeks, because they had to build the time machine. Then once the time heist was completed it was all practically in real time. They snapped, then Thanos came through time and the ending. So Endgame was pretty good with their timing of the movie.

    Completely different from having a season happen over a few days but implying hair and people and food grow that fast.

    Endgame was pretty good with timing of the movie, while TWD and their timeline was and has been one of the biggests complaints of the fans since the beginning of the show. The world goes from civilization to complete chaos back to civilization with cities built with fortified walls and running electric and plumbing within months? Please.

    Furthermore, Shameless is amazing at time. Every off season, they time jump in real time to explain how, where, and why the characters do what they did, and to explain why characters are bigger and older.

    So it is completely possible to handle time in a logical manner.
    Last edited by Powder; 09-17-2019 at 10:23 AM.

  22. #142
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    If you’re okay with the time jump in End Game, why aren’t you okay with time jumps in TWD? (Which there have been a few seasons that start off with “X months later...”)

    Basically you’re saying, it’s okay for one fictional to establish their own set of rules for whatever the case may be. WWE is the same way. In their fictional universe, they’ve established that Shane pretty much does what he wants and throws fines around as he sees fit. And if you want to get real technical, Shane has mostly been relegated to an authority figure on SmackDown. Who’s to say he had anything to do with the fine against Lynch on Raw?

  23. #143
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    Not sure if you read my edits on TWD, but that explains that so...

    But if we discount time with TWD, they are consistent with their rules of the universe. They way they have to survive, the rules of the dead, dying and walkers etc. They do not change the rules simply because the world is fictional.

    The WWE is not consistent within their rules. I can agree that Shane might not have power over the RAW roster, but others do, and the general rules for superstars are universal. I also agree that the fines issue may not be the best argument for this, but that does not change the fact that the WWE should be more consistent in what the put on screen from match to match, to performer to performer. Just look at every match nowadays, referees seemingly forget how to count to 10 in a normal 10 seconds. How many matches have both competitors outside the ring, using walls, and tables for minutes before a count of 10 or a DQ is warranted? I know, "that is pro-wrestling" is the answer. but it isn't.

    I remember the time, when the heel would always jump back in to the ring to break up the count. some still do. I think that Corbin did it last night, but not all the time. Either make all matches no countout/no DQ, or just enforce the rules of the universe. Otherwise you are insulting the audience. 10 seconds takes 10 seconds. Putting someone through a table/announce desk is a DQ regardless of who does it.

    Just consistency.
    Last edited by Powder; 09-17-2019 at 10:41 AM.

  24. #144
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    Does the new story help you understand? Now Kevin is fighting that the punishment was unfair. Because the story was it was all unfair.

    Consistency is definitely a goal. But storyline punishments from heel bosses? That's just unreasonable and a place to complain.

  25. #145
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    Wow, you still do not get it do you? I was never not understanding. Ever.

    I was complaining that if the WWE sets rules and precedents within its own universe then they need to maintain those rules and precedents. if a fine is levied to one performer, then the fine needs to be upheld to another for the same infraction. Simple. Consistent.

    The KO story from last night was exceptionally predictable to any wrestling fan, and they were consistent in what KO was saying through his "lawsuit". Shane hit a referee and should be punished/fined/fired etc. The What's good for the goose is good for the gander type of story.

  26. #146
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    I'm not tuning in unless Cult has a perm...


    Also, where does this push bring KO? Does he even win another world title? Why isn't he fighting Iken in a perm vs hair match by now?


  27. #147
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    This angle with Shane in my pov has really hurt KO momentum. Especially for someone that was stunning people and now hes suing..riveting tv

    Even if it was done perfectly, it wouldn’t make me excited to see KO kick ass and hes one of my faves. Maybe i have Shane fatigue

  28. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Wow, you still do not get it do you? I was never not understanding. Ever.

    I was complaining that if the WWE sets rules and precedents within its own universe then they need to maintain those rules and precedents. if a fine is levied to one performer, then the fine needs to be upheld to another for the same infraction. Simple. Consistent.

    The KO story from last night was exceptionally predictable to any wrestling fan, and they were consistent in what KO was saying through his "lawsuit". Shane hit a referee and should be punished/fined/fired etc. The What's good for the goose is good for the gander type of story.
    I think KO also pointed out that the fine was disproportionate due to a personal vendetta from Shane.

  29. #149
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    This feud between KO and Shane needs to end, and the most likely end to a feud like this is a HIAC match, but these two have already faced off in a HIAC match in 2017. Will the WWE just have them do this again?

    God I hope not, but Shane likes this type of match, and honestly, a no DQ spot fest is the best way to cover up for Shane's lack of wrestling ability.

  30. #150
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    I highly doubt they’ll wind up in the cell. You’ve already got Bray/Seth and Becky/Sasha in cell matches... can’t imagine there being a third.

    You could possibly push the feud out for another month and end it with a team KO vs team Shane match at Survivor Series with some kind of stipulation added if KO’s team wins.
    Last edited by meandi; 09-20-2019 at 10:32 AM.

  31. #151
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    I cannot see the WWE pushing this further than HIAC. The Draft is happening right after the FOX debut right after HIAC PPV, and I can't see them continuing with this feud on the move to Fox.

    i see the Fox debut and the draft as a way to rest everything. I think the WWE is planning on starting basically everything over once the draft happens with brand specificity and now with Fox wanting better stuff.
    Last edited by Powder; 09-20-2019 at 10:39 AM.

  32. #152
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    Owens seems to be getting a bit more of a chance to shine recently, what with his WarGames return at NXT and a couple of more high profile moments on Raw, including stunning Seth Rollins after his town hall thing last week. Do we think WWE will stick the landing on this and we see Owens head to the top of the card - and possibly a match with Brock at some point for the title?

  33. #153
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    The Owens build started with the Shane stuff from Smackdown. I honestly think that prior to the draft, once the crowd started turning on Rollins, Vince needed to look for a babyface that is over and connects with the crowd, and Owens is that guy.

    I think that he will become the #1 face on RAW, if he is not already, and will end up overcoming Rollins and the AOP setting him up to beat Lesnar at Mania. he is the only logical choice, and if, a big IF, they have a KO/Lesnar match at Mania, and Lesnar retains, that kills KO, just like when Charlotte beat Asuka. She was in purgatory for about a year.

  34. #154
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    Powder is on the right track. Owens feels like the man who will challenge Brock at Mania. A lot can change in the next 4-5 months, but with Seth no longer a true babyface, and Owens being the "people's champion" of sorts, he's the guy. Only people who might take that shot from him are McIntyre or Orton, if they are turning face. And even if they are, Owens is still ahead.

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