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Thread: Brock Lesnar

  1. #1
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Brock Lesnar

    As it stands, the current Universal Champion. And from what I gather the plan is to leave the belt on him long enough that he'll be the longest reigning top-tier champion in WWE since Hogan's 1,000 day reign in the 80's.

  2. #2
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    So beyond the Punk reign? Mind you, I suppose that's only about another 35 days or so away now, given he went for the year at Mania and then has had another month since.

    I just wish we were seeing the Lesnar from his first return rather than this one, at the moment. He was a much more interesting proposition.

  3. #3
    The Brain
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    Lesnar was the first WWE champion I ever had when I started watching in 2003, so he'll always have a special place in my heart. I think he was one of the best in the world in 2003, which is saying a lot. That Lesnar was truly amazing.

    I was excited when he came back and his first match with Cena was amazing, one of the most visceral and brutal matches ever, and the finish never bothered me. My excitement for him slowly died off as his terrible feud with Triple H bombed, rebounded somewhat with the Punk match, but ever since 2014 I haven't been able to muster a shit to give.

    I'll always say the Streak had to end, but Lesnar was a poor choice, and the match was the drizzling shits. The Suplex City style has made his matches since an absolute chore, and I know some people say he still brings some kind of aura but whatever it is, it sure isn't working on me anymore. I know it's not the popular opinion but I thought the Undertaker rematches were garbage, and the Orton and Ambrose matches were flat out embarrassing. The Goldberg feud did nothing for me, though again I know I'm not the majority there. His match with Reigns this past 'Mania was a flat out chore.

    His only real use seems to be when he's in a multi-man and allowed to hide for a big chunk of the match before doing a short burst of something interesting, with the only exception being if he's paired with a truly elite worker who can drag him to give a shit, like AJ did last year. His complete physical (and often mental) absence one of the worst choices for champion of all time and his drawing ability is exaggerated to say the least. And for god's sake, he seems blown up half the time he's working anyway, so if he doesn't give a shit why should I? One of the chief reasons I hardly watch WWE anymore, to be honest.

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    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    I believe he isn't on the card for the next PPV so assuming he doesn't show up on RAW and lose it in the meantime, yes, it's going beyond the Punk reign. The question that becomes how much longer. July? Summerslam? Survivor Series? Royal Rumble? Next year's Wrestlemania?

    I actually do get the Lesnar fatigue and even though he does still have some kind of an aura, it isn't what it once was. With that said, until you can produce someone else who has that kind of aura (and the obvious answer is Braun fucking Strowman even though they seem resistant to going all in on him) then I think you almost have to continue to get whatever you can out of Lesnar.

    It ain't going to work for everyone, but if you think of it as a three-ring circus it makes more sense.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time
    I believe he isn't on the card for the next PPV so assuming he doesn't show up on RAW and lose it in the meantime, yes, it's going beyond the Punk reign. The question that becomes how much longer. July? Summerslam? Survivor Series? Royal Rumble? Next year's Wrestlemania?

    I actually do get the Lesnar fatigue and even though he does still have some kind of an aura, it isn't what it once was. With that said, until you can produce someone else who has that kind of aura (and the obvious answer is Braun fucking Strowman even though they seem resistant to going all in on him) then I think you almost have to continue to get whatever you can out of Lesnar.

    It ain't going to work for everyone, but if you think of it as a three-ring circus it makes more sense.
    I think SummerSlam. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see him in the title match at WrestleMania next yr.

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  6. #6
    The Brain
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    I'll tolerate him better when he finally loses that god damned title. I understand the logic of not having your champion on TV every week, I actually like that, but his presence is just way too low. At this point I feel like people forget that Universal title even exists most of the time.

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    Partially agree. I don't think he's there too little personally but I think it feels that way because they don't make the most of his dates. There's definitely an issue with that, I've seen it in too many places.

    If he doesn't wanna turn up every week get him to record a slate of interviews every six weeks and slide them in as a pre-record.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  8. #8
    The Brain
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    It's just way too little for me, anyway. Apples & oranges, maybe, but Flair wrestled as much in a day as Lesnar does in a year, and Flair was a much more consistent draw than Lesnar could ever hope to be. Hogan didn't wrestle much on TV, but he was generally out there doing the legwork on house shows and popping big gates, making real money for the company and sending fans home happy. Even Hollywood era Hogan wrestled more than Lesnar, for god's sake.

  9. #9
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Well, Flair didn't appear as a wrestler on TV that often during his eighties run. In my rewatch I've seen him wrestle maybe three times? Granted he was working 'every night and twice on sundays' off TV. And to be fair he's doing an interview on most of them. But yeah, there's only about half a dozen televised matches there in 1988, believe it or not.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  10. #10
    The Brain
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    Oh, I can easily believe that, but he maintained an actual presence and like you said, he was drawing money on a weekly (or even daily) basis. I just don't think Lesnar contributes on anywhere near that level, sitting at home most of the year and barely showing up even when he does show up.

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    Perhaps. Personally my take is that as long as they're making money I don't worry about the business side. That's for them. So I only really concern myself with what's 'canon'. As for the money, if Vince is happy and it's his money I can't say it's going to worry me.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  12. #12
    The Brain
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    Ok, how about contributing anything on a weekly basis? It doesn't have to be money, just anything, instead of, you know, nothing.

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    That's why I'd do a bunch of prerecorded stuff to slip in. He doesn't need to be there to be on the show. If it's the travel he hates that's easily cut down.

    I'd want to see him wrestling a few more times as well, if he's going to have the belt, but to me that's about getting more out of the dates he does work. The amount of times he has stood behind Paul smirking... And I just think you used one of your dates on that?!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  14. #14
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    How about a Woken Brock Lesnar so we can have a Lesnar compound match with Lesnar and Strowman with Sable and the kiddies.

    No travel for Lesnar.

  15. #15
    The Brain
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    Lesnar demanding that people come to his house to take the title actually sounds more interesting than most of his recent feuds.

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    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    True enough, but to be frank I think you can apply that to pretty much any WWE main roster feud over the past year or so.

    All I can say is thank god for 205/NXT and the Vault, or they'd need to pay me to keep a Network subscription.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder
    How about a Woken Brock Lesnar so we can have a Lesnar compound match with Lesnar and Strowman with Sable and the kiddies.

    No travel for Lesnar.
    Intriguing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    Lesnar demanding that people come to his house to take the title actually sounds more interesting than most of his recent feuds.
    To be honest, I think they could have pulled the trigger on this after Mania.

    'You lost, Roman! And now my contract has expired but I'm keeping the title! You, and anybody else, will have to come to my house to take it from me!'

    Cue a bunch of matches in the woods somewhere.

  19. #19
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    Are you guys actually trying to kill me?!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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    Seeing reports now that we won't see Lesnar again, even on TV, until they start building to Summerslam.

    Is that too long for a champ to be off TV?

  21. #21
    Senior Member LWO4Life's Avatar
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    Why do people act like the Universal title matters, or Lesnar? It's not too long for the Universal champ to be off TV. If it was AJ and the WWE title, then I'd say yes.

  22. #22
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    30 day rule anyone?

    Remember how they stripped Namoi because she wasn't going to be a Wrestlemania but she recovered early and would have made it to her 'mandatory' challenge on time anyway.

    Honestly I wouldn't care if it was Dean Ambrose, the way the WWE TV is structured if the champ isn't there it holds things up too long particularly when creative are not exactly known for their creativity. All the better for Rollins though who is effectively Raw's top champion for the next 2 and a bit months.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirSam View Post
    30 day rule anyone?

    Remember how they stripped Namoi because she wasn't going to be a Wrestlemania but she recovered early and would have made it to her 'mandatory' challenge on time anyway.

    Honestly I wouldn't care if it was Dean Ambrose, the way the WWE TV is structured if the champ isn't there it holds things up too long particularly when creative are not exactly known for their creativity. All the better for Rollins though who is effectively Raw's top champion for the next 2 and a bit months.
    Where is Jack Tunney when we need him?

  24. #24
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    Fun fact Sam, if the thirty day rule was in effect for real Brock wouldn't have made a single defence of the Universal title - it'd have been stripped from him well before his first defence against Samoa Joe, some 98 days later.

    It could also have been stripped in the 119 day gap between his 30th September defence against Sheamus, and his 27th January defence against Kane.

    He's now over thirty days already, so that's another window.



    I think there's no doubt they don't use Lesnar's dates wisely. He wrestled a bunch of times on the Summerslam tour last year, and then went missing for months at a time. Did the same thing on the Road to Wrestlemania tour.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder
    Where is Jack Tunney when we need him?
    In Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time
    Fun fact Sam, if the thirty day rule was in effect for real Brock wouldn't have made a single defence of the Universal title - it'd have been stripped from him well before his first defence against Samoa Joe, some 98 days later.

    It could also have been stripped in the 119 day gap between his 30th September defence against Sheamus, and his 27th January defence against Kane.

    He's now over thirty days already, so that's another window.



    I think there's no doubt they don't use Lesnar's dates wisely. He wrestled a bunch of times on the Summerslam tour last year, and then went missing for months at a time. Did the same thing on the Road to Wrestlemania tour.
    Guess they figure WrestleMania sells itself so they can work around not having Lesnar.

    Twitter: @libsuperstar

  26. #26
    The Brain
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    I think it's actually a pretty solid point that no one really gives a shit about the Universal title now. It's been MIA for almost it's entire existence.

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    I thought that the Joe/Lesnar match was the beginning of the end for the Universal title. They cut that match down to 7 minutes, so that Braun/Roman could have their full 45-50 minute segment, despite the anticipation for Joe/Lesnar, Joe's awesome promo work and presence leading up to that match, and Brock's/Joe's dedicated effort to make it into something special. Then they did that Braun/Lesnar match which was pretty bland, and they were half-hearted about not wanting to job Braun, yet also not wanting to defeat Lesnar (he had to be saved for beast slayer Roman!), so they found themselves into a match they really didn't want. Then they compounded this mistake yet again by booking another Braun/Lesnar match, and then tossing Kane in there just to spare Braun the sting of defeat, which telegraphed the match as soon as it was announced, and it was a pretty dull match as well.

    If they had given Joe/Lesnar the proper 15-20 minutes, maybe had a rematch, then gone ahead with the initial plan of Finn/Lesnar for the Rumble, and had these matches been great, which they would have been, Lesnar would have stayed hot, and no one would be complaining or noticing his absence. Instead they booked a hodgepodge of lame lackluster stuff month after month and totally exposed Lesnar in ways I didn't even think it would have been possible, and then completely buried him by underscoring during the Roman feud that he was a deadbeat that never shows up. That failed of course to have the desired effect, and then the two poor Roman matches were cherries on top of the cake. And here we are with Brock having gone from being one of the most over and brutally exciting wrestlers on the roster into this. I don't blame Brock for any of this. And let's not forget the inexplicable way in which Roman immediately got his rematch against Brock hours/less than a day after losing to Brock clean, for no discernible reason whatsoever. That told everyone that the Universal title was meaningless, belongs only to Roman, and is just being kept seat-warmed by Brock. Since most people don't care about Roman, and have no interest in him 'finally' getting crowned for the 4th or 5th time, consequently, they also no longer care about the title.
    Last edited by Alan; 05-28-2018 at 10:24 PM.

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    Based on Braun's promo last night, I think the WWE is building toward Braun/Lesnar II to give the belt to Braun.

  29. #29
    The Brain
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    I'd be alright with that, though it certainly doesn't feel as hot as it did before.

    I always thought it was perfectly reasonable to have Lesnar wrestler 12 times a year, one defense per month. He doesn't even have to show up on TV, just use Heyman or pre-record promos for him when he's around. Definitely dig Alan's analysis of when this all went off the rails, though I feel like it may have started even earlier than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    Based on Braun's promo last night, I think the WWE is building toward Braun/Lesnar II to give the belt to Braun.
    I didn't see it, but one can only hope.

  31. #31
    I wonder if Brock is done when he next drops the strap or if hell be a special attraction.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by For the love of Terry Funk View Post
    I wonder if Brock is done when he next drops the strap or if hell be a special attraction.
    My guess would be that he's off to UFC.

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    Hopefully then they bring back Batista, tag him with DB, and have a massive tag title run. Let the next attraction build up the tag scene while giving DB something to do away from the World Titles, while allowing Braun the proper chance to build as a world champ.

    This is WWE though, so exact opposite it is...


  34. #34
    The Brain
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    Considering how much money they just made off their TV deals, I'll be amazed if they don't throw so much cash at Brock he stays at least another 3 years.

  35. #35
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Here's a question. Lesnar came back in 2012 or whenever it was and his time in UFC had given him a level of star power he'd only really scratched at in 2002-04. Whether or not you think he still has it, I think everyone can agree his MMA exploits and 'legitimate' background has meant that at times he's had an aura that the typical WWE wrestler hasn't had.

    Why hasn't Lashley had that? He looks as good. He's done MMA stuff for Bellator, and won. He is apparently a better person to be around, and is actually a wrestling fan.

    So yeah - why hasn't Lashley ever looked like replacing Lesnar, or getting close to his level of star power? Is it just the booking? That he doesn't have a Heyman figure? That you need to know more about MMA to be as familiar with Bellator while even the casual fan knows UFC? Or is it something else?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  36. #36
    The Brain
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    Horrible presentation is one part of it, for sure. It was a matter of minutes before he was just another guy on the roster, and now there's this thing with his "sisters". Lashley also had a worse reputation coming in, as most people didn't like his run in the 00s. And yeah, I think the fact that Bellator isn't really a recognizable name the way UFC is has something to do with it.

    If Lashley had come in, been presented as something special, with a great manager, and was allowed to recklessly maul the top star, he'd be a lot higher in the rankings. Still not quite as high as 2012 Lesnar, but a hell of a lot closer.

  37. #37
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    Because Lashley has absolutely no charisma nor presence. He has size, but that's it.

    When Lesnar walks into a room, the room stops and everyone turns to look and takes notice. Lashley walks into a room and everyone goes, ok the guys works out and forgets him immediately.
    Last edited by Powder; 06-04-2018 at 04:13 PM.

  38. #38
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    Brock was the UFC heavyweight champion, huge buyrates for UFC, he was a proven draw when he came back. Bellator is bascially considered the minor leagues so I don't think MMA helped Lashley really. His run at Impact went largely unnoticed as well.

    Doesn't mean he couldn't be a success with WWE but the point is, Vince doesn't see Lashley like Brock so he's not treated as such.

  39. #39
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Also Brock Lesnar is a house hold name from. Bobby Lashley has almost zero name recognition.

  40. #40
    The Brain
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    He's obviously more well known than Lashley, but I'm not really sure Lesnar is big enough to be a household name. I think more people probably know Cena than Brock, and I'm not sure he's a household name either.

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