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  1. #1

    Who would you induct?

    Imagine that you were starting a WWE Hall Of Fame today from scrapping the current entity. There's no Legacy Wing or no Celebrity Wing. Who would you enshrine be it wrestler, manager/valet, announcer, referee, executive or other personnel?

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  2. #2
    Super Moderator Prime Time's Avatar
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    Just WWE, or all the other promotions that seem to fall within their orbit now as well?

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time
    Just WWE, or all the other promotions that seem to fall within their orbit now as well?
    Just WWE from the beginnings as Capitol Wrestling Corporation to modern day WWE.

    Twitter: @libsuperstar

  4. #4
    That's easy. I'd go big draw heavy the first class, with some really important figures.

    Class of 2018
    Antonino Rocca
    Bruno Sammartino
    Andre the Giant
    Hulk Hogan
    Bobo Brazil
    Fabolous Moolah (yes I'd still include her first class, her story and connection is WAY too important)
    Vince McMahon Sr.

    You can get away with all of these on the same class because only Hogan would give his own speech, everyone else is a worthy headliner but sadly has passed away. I think Bruno giving his own speech was really special, but in 2018, sadly he's no longer with us. Starting with class #2, I'd start spreading headliners, but for the first one, if you want a legitimate HoF from the start, you go with all the biggest headliners you could in one class, and of course Vince Sr. who promoted the whole thing from CWC to WWF.

  5. #5
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Is it coping out to say that almost everyone who is currently in the Hall of Fame but leaving out Koko B Ware, Hillbilly Jim, Bushwackers, and Bullet Bob Armstrong.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder
    Is it copping out to say that almost everyone who is currently in the Hall of Fame but leaving out Koko B Ware, Hillbilly Jim, Bushwackers, and Bullet Bob Armstrong.
    No but who would you add that isn't already in?

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  7. #7
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Owen Hart, Chyna, Miss. Elizabeth, Vader, VKM, Shane and Stephanie and Linda, *Gasp* Kevin Dunn, Jim Johnston, Dick Ebersol, HHH, The Rock, Orton, Cena, Batista, Bischoff, Kane, Jericho, The Undertaker, Big Show, Vickie Guerrero, Demolition, British Bulldogs, Haku/Meng, Paul Heyman, Lesnar, Sable, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit, Jim Cornette, Great Muta, Steiner Brothers, Jushin Thunder Liger, Ultimo Dragon, Luger, Mysterio, Bruiser Brody, Hardys, Christian, Rob Van Damn, Tommy Dreamer, Sabu, Shane Douglas, Waltman, Sandman, Raven, La Parka, Vince Russo, Ted Turner, Sid Vicious, Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, Bull Nakano, JBL, Brian Pillman, Goldust, Midnight Express (both), Bam Bam Bigelow, New Age Outlaws, Mike Rotundo, Kevin Sullivan, William Regal, Ole Anderson, Steve Lombardi, Barry O, Barry Horowitz, Charles Robinson, Nick Patrick, Nasty Boyz, Luna Vichon, Konnan, Dutch Mantel, Al Snow, Joey Styles

    I think that list is pretty comprehensive for who is not currently in who deserve to be.

  8. #8
    The Brain
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    I'd say Bullet Bob is more than deserving if you consider his NWA work, though there's not much connection to WWE.

    I'm down with LWO's list, except the Moolah bit. Even if you put aside the claims about what she had some of her trainees do, her influence still crippled women's wrestling and set it back decades.

    If I was going to personally induct someone, obviously it would be my man Bobby Heenan.

  9. #9
    Author of 101 WWE Matches To See Before You Die Samuel 'Plan's Avatar
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    Well my first inductee would be Randy Savage, and no hesitation. The dude was such an in-ring pioneer, doing stuff twenty years ahead of its time and having remarkable matches against anyone. He pretty much gathered in-ring WWE as we know it today, if sometimes by some degrees of separation. And if I'm running things, he's getting his own class just for those reasons.

    Andre and Undertaker would have to come next, and as a pair too. Such unique and singular roles in the history of the industry and of WWE in general. Remarkable legacies.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder
    Owen Hart, Chyna, Miss. Elizabeth, Vader, VKM, Shane and Stephanie and Linda, *Gasp* Kevin Dunn, Jim Johnston, Dick Ebersol, HHH, The Rock, Orton, Cena, Batista, Bischoff, Kane, Jericho, The Undertaker, Big Show, Vickie Guerrero, Demolition, British Bulldogs, Haku/Meng, Paul Heyman, Lesnar, Sable, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit, Jim Cornette, Great Muta, Steiner Brothers, Jushin Thunder Liger, Ultimo Dragon, Luger, Mysterio, Bruiser Brody, Hardys, Christian, Rob Van Damn, Tommy Dreamer, Sabu, Shane Douglas, Waltman, Sandman, Raven, La Parka, Vince Russo, Ted Turner, Sid Vicious, Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, Bull Nakano, JBL, Brian Pillman, Goldust, Midnight Express (both), Bam Bam Bigelow, New Age Outlaws, Mike Rotundo, Kevin Sullivan, William Regal, Ole Anderson, Steve Lombardi, Barry O, Barry Horowitz, Charles Robinson, Nick Patrick, Nasty Boyz, Luna Vichon, Konnan, Dutch Mantel, Al Snow, Joey Styles

    I think that list is pretty comprehensive for who is not currently in who deserve to be.
    Solid list! You preferred the Sid Vicious runs to the Sycho Sid run?

    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan
    I'd say Bullet Bob is more than deserving if you consider his NWA work, though there's not much connection to WWE.

    I'm down with LWO's list, except the Moolah bit. Even if you put aside the claims about what she had some of her trainees do, her influence still crippled women's wrestling and set it back decades.

    If I was going to personally induct someone, obviously it would be my man Bobby Heenan.
    Same! She blocked other women (including those responsible for helping overturn the NY laws banning women's wrestling from working WWWF shows) and sabotaged an opportunity for the Glamour Girls and Jumping Bomb Angels match at WM4. Also she was reportedly never a draw. But then again other than the Brawl To End It All in '84 I'm not sure she ever headlined any WWE cards and the 9.0 rating was probably due to Cyndi Lauper and Wendi Richter. In her heyday women were traveling attractions. Several notables - Mildred Burke, June Byers, Ida Mae Martinez, Nell Stewart, Gloria Barratini, Mae Young - passed through the CWC territory though.

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  11. #11
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    It doesn’t matter, he needs to go in.

  12. #12
    The Brain
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    Quote Originally Posted by M.V.W. View Post
    Same! She blocked other women (including those responsible for helping overturn the NY laws banning women's wrestling from working WWWF shows) and sabotaged an opportunity for the Glamour Girls and Jumping Bomb Angels match at WM4. Also she was reportedly never a draw. But then again other than the Brawl To End It All in '84 I'm not sure she ever headlined any WWE cards and the 9.0 rating was probably due to Cyndi Lauper and Wendi Richter. In her heyday women were traveling attractions. Several notables - Mildred Burke, June Byers, Ida Mae Martinez, Nell Stewart, Gloria Barratini, Mae Young - passed through the CWC territory though.
    Absolutely agree on all of this, especially Lauper and Richter being the obvious draw in '84, and Moolah helped push them out too, especially (obviously) Richter.

    Interesting list from Powder. Really struggling to think why Barry O deserves a nod, especially since you like to rail against guys like Koko and Hillbilly Jim, who did far more than Barry.

    Thinking of others besides those Powder mentioned who are not in now but deserve to be so. Would definitely include Rick Martel at some point, especially if you also count his AWA work. Adrian Adonis too, though it'd be hard to talk about his most well known angle. Patera should also be a lock, though WWE will probably steer clear of him. I'd also throw on Ivan Koloff, Earthquake, Finlay, and Jannetty at some point.

  13. #13
    Mildred Burke and June Byers are the only names I'd put above Moolah in terms of impact, but Moolah for better or worse is completely a WWE creation, who did a lot to break women away from Billy Wolfe (who makes Moolah look like Mother Teresa), the NWA title she won in CWC in 1956 ran parallel to the Billy Wolfe NWA women's title that ran in the territories up until the mid-60's. You can hate her, but when in comes to CWC/WWWF/WWF/WWE style women's wrestling, Moolah is standard. You say she dropped the work rate and ruined women's wrestling, but Hogan did his share of ruining wrestling too. If we are talking an overall HoF, then yeah, I'd go Burke first, but if you want it from WWE, then Moolah is the one.

    Also, you can't take a moral high ground with wrestling, ESPECIALLY pre-1985. Now most women who wrestled for Moolah have said she didn't pimp them out, and Moolah is dead and they have no reason to back her. Even when I first wrote about it 6 years ago, I would classify as, she wasn't exactly sending her women for sex (in fact her first rule to all her ladies was no sexual favors), but if a promoter was taking advantage of the girls, she wouldn't blame the promoter for the woman. But that was the attitude of that era, it wasn't right, but it was.

  14. #14
    I wouldn't induct anyone. I would treat the Hall Of Fame how Hall Of Fames, should be treated, I'd open it to a ballot.

    However after that, I'd also only induct a single act a year, where the ceremony is people who have been involved in their career to a speech about them, maybe even in between a produced documentary. That way it would be the honor of all honors, and if they had done it since annually since 93, we'd only be at 25 inductees so far.

  15. #15
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizfan View Post
    Interesting list from Powder. Really struggling to think why Barry O deserves a nod, especially since you like to rail against guys like Koko and Hillbilly Jim, who did far more than Barry.
    The Jobbers, like Barry O, Barry Horowitz, Steve Lombardi and Iron Mike Sharpe did more for the careers of the Pushed superstars than anyone else in the 1980s. There were no throw away matches on TV like we have now. Every week it was a Pushed/Established star vs a jobber, like the few mentioned. Without the jobbers in the 80s there would be no matches for TV, even the house shows.

    Koko B Ware and Hillbilly Jim were pushed and the WWF tried to make them huge stars, but both ended up doing really nothing besides being a character in the 1980s wrestling boom. But both of those guys would beat the jobbers on TV week in and week out, and the jobbers made them who they are.

    Jobbers of the 80s MADE the stars look like a million bucks and they took punishment week in and week out. I would put any of the four: Barry O, Barry Horowitz, Steve Lombardi and Iron Mike Sharpe into the Hall way before Koko or Jim as they did more for the business than either of those 2.

    Jobbers of the 80s can be compared to the Washington Generals. Without the Generals the Harlem Globetrotters would NOT be who they are.

  16. #16
    Here is the difference with Koko, and maybe because I actually watched the product then, but Koko was pushed, and he basically became a "jobber to the stars," but he was over. Vince used him for the entertainment value he had. You can't discredit Koko for the Piledriver album, doing high flying moves and actually being over. He started to fall down based off backstage dramas and then fired for beating up and executive who called him the N-word. His biggest problem though is eventually Vince realized he was small as hell and wasn't believable in an era of giants.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by LWO4Life
    Mildred Burke and June Byers are the only names I'd put above Moolah in terms of impact, but Moolah for better or worse is completely a WWE creation, who did a lot to break women away from Billy Wolfe (who makes Moolah look like Mother Teresa), the NWA title she won in CWC in 1956 ran parallel to the Billy Wolfe NWA women's title that ran in the territories up until the mid-60's. You can hate her, but when in comes to CWC/WWWF/WWF/WWE style women's wrestling, Moolah is standard. You say she dropped the work rate and ruined women's wrestling, but Hogan did his share of ruining wrestling too. If we are talking an overall HoF, then yeah, I'd go Burke first, but if you want it from WWE, then Moolah is the one.

    Also, you can't take a moral high ground with wrestling, ESPECIALLY pre-1985. Now most women who wrestled for Moolah have said she didn't pimp them out, and Moolah is dead and they have no reason to back her. Even when I first wrote about it 6 years ago, I would classify as, she wasn't exactly sending her women for sex (in fact her first rule to all her ladies was no sexual favors), but if a promoter was taking advantage of the girls, she wouldn't blame the promoter for the woman. But that was the attitude of that era, it wasn't right, but it was.
    My strike against Moolah isn't so much from a moral standpoint but rather the merits of her resume. A good few historians have shared that there is no record of her drawing, which is the key factor for greatness in wrestling. Granted there weren't many women who did outside of Burke. The comparison to Hogan lacks b/c he was a draw despite whatever legend of him being a backstage politician. Perhaps the greatest indictment on Moolah is the Women's Revolution. Some ppl might call it PR fluff but if she was such a trailblazer why did it take WWE until 2014 to start treating women's wrestling seriously after seeing Rousey's drawing power in UFC? Moolah's best contribution might be her students and even then reportedly some of her students - Donna Christantello and Susan Green - did more of the training later.

    Quote Originally Posted by LWO4Life
    Here is the difference with Koko, and maybe because I actually watched the product then, but Koko was pushed, and he basically became a "jobber to the stars," but he was over. Vince used him for the entertainment value he had. You can't discredit Koko for the Piledriver album, doing high flying moves and actually being over. He started to fall down based off backstage dramas and then fired for beating up and executive who called him the N-word. His biggest problem though is eventually Vince realized he was small as hell and wasn't believable in an era of giants.
    He was a solid hand too. As for Hillbilly Jim he did a lot of integral behind the scenes work for WWE over the yrs after his wrestling days were over.

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  18. #18
    The Brain
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    Yeah, I don't think Koko is necessarily HOF worthy but the idea that he was less significant than Barry O, who I wouldn't even rank as one of the significant jobbers of the era compared to guys like Sharpe and Horowitz, is pretty nuts to me. Koko was quietly one of the best wrestlers in the company for a few years too, though he had limited chances to show it off due to size and politics, as LWO mentioned.

    I don't want to get into a whole thing about Moolah, because there's no doubt she's incredibly significant, for better or worse. I agree it seems likely at this point that she didn't actively "pimp out" the majority of her girls, but I'm still disturbed by the stories from the likes of Luna Vachon and Georgia Brown. The fact that she was better than Wolfe is something I agree with, though it's a damn low bar to jump over. I was definitely thinking of the ring work stuff to some extent, as Moolah's all hair pulling, all the time stuff is much worse than Hogan's shtick to me, because at least Hogan was hugely popular because of it. Moolah's drawing power is questionable at best, and basically ending the popularity they latched onto with Richter is pretty bad to me (though Moolah's not the only one to blame for that, of course). She's very historically significant, but at the very least I do agree there are other women you would want to recognize first and foremost.

    Anyway, if the idea is to get all the most deserving names in the Hall right away, hard to go wrong with a first class of Bruno, Hogan, Andre, Austin, and Rock.

  19. #19
    Feeling Minnesota Powder's Avatar
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    Cena???

  20. #20
    The Brain
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    I tend to think still being active in the ring should keep you out of a HOF. He's definitely on the shortlist though, and if you want to include active people you could probably swap out Andre.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Powder
    Cena???
    He certainly belongs on the WWE Mt. Rushmore. For my first class I'd go with:

    Antonino Rocca
    Buddy Rogers
    Johnny Valentine
    Dr. Jerry Graham
    Bobo Brazil
    The Fabulous Kangaroos
    Antonino Rocca & Miguel Pérez
    Graham Brothers
    Wild Red Berry
    Bobby Davis
    Bruno Sammartino
    Jess McMahon
    Toots Mondt
    Vincent J. McMahon
    Willie Gilzenberg
    Hulk Hogan

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