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  1. #1
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    May 2018

    The Lords of Pain World Heavyweight Championship - 1985-1992

    Welcome to the fourth meeting of the LoP Championship committee. I’m joined by an illustrious group of LoP notables – Mazza, Uncle Joe, Steve, and the now 11-time COTM winner Mizfan – in our ongoing attempt to establish a lineal, real world championship that will defy a lot of the nonsense that takes place in the world of professional wrestling. It’s a tough job that requires some serious thought, and we’ve already had to make some tough decisions. That’s why we have the good scotch and fine cigars in the committee room. As always, chairing the committee and taking the notes is me, Prime Time.

    The minutes of previous meetings are available elsewhere on this forum, but for those who want to dive straight in we left things with the LoP Championship on the man who was also the AWA champion at the very end of 1985, Rick Martel. He’d hold the title until the year was very nearly out but at the death would lose the title to Stan Hansen, who’d be champion until the following June. At this point, however, we need the help of the committee members because there’s a situation that needs addressing. Hansen turns up in Japan with the AWA title, defending against high profile members of the All Japan Pro Wrestling group. Under normal circumstances, no problem – we’d follow Hansen. The trouble is, it’s suggested that he actually no-showed a scheduled AWA title defence against Nick Bockwinkel, which could be grounds to strip him of the LoP title. Gentlemen, I’d be interested in your take on this.

    Ah, the infamous, "You want your belt? I'll send it to you... run over with muddy truck tracks all over it," incident.

    A no-show is a big no-no for me. Can't be doing that. What is wrong with you? Do your job, mate. Can't be messing around with someone's belt. I vote for a hold up here. I mean the choice of where to go next is always the most fun anyway. Plus now Martel has been champ, I think the title has peaked.

    If nobody can beat Hansen, then I say he has every right to take that lineage over to Japan with him. Verne's chicanery has affected our title for the last time!

    Do we have a precedent for no-shows? I mean, Stan even admits himself that he flat out refused to work that night due to his loyalties lying in Japan with Giant Baba and All Japan. Verne wanted him to lose, Baba already had a month's worth of challengers set up for him when he came to Japan in July... so Stan refused to work the match and took his ass and the belt to Japan. Then, as alluded to before, he answered threats of legal action by literally running over and destroying the title belt and shipping it back to Gagne with muddy tire prints still all over it. That's some Texas shit right there.

    Well I do love a good no show as a "fuck you" to the man. AND Hansen is a tough SOB but i would have to vote to strip him.

    Anywho, it's a tough call. I say we strip him of the title. I mean, the dude had a title match booked and refused to work. That's a forfeit in my eyes, whether he was ever pinned or not. Of course, others have disagreed with similar sentiments previously. Which is why I'm still anticipating what's going to potentially happen in about a decade when a certain smile gets lost.

    I think that’ll all become clearer when we get there – if, that is, it’s even relevant when the time comes. We might be in a different part of the world and bypass it entirely. But I agree, I’d usually vote to keep the belt on someone where possible but I think as there’s a no-show in play there’s a real argument to take the belt off Stan Hansen here.

    Hansen 1-4 Vacate

    Stan Hansen, 60th LoP Champion

    With a clear vote to vacate the title, as always the search is on to find a match that represents the best world championship match as soon as we can. A scan of the contests in that timeframe throws up these three bouts. I suspect there might be a clear winner here, but we’ll see how the voting goes.

    NWA: Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes – Cage match - Greensboro, 26/7/86
    AWA: Nick Bockwinkel vs Jerry Lawler – Memphis, 21/7/86
    WWF: Hulk Hogan vs Adrian Adonis – Philadelphia 26/7/86

    I should preface this by saying that I have an admission to make, one that is likely pretty easily predictable. I can't wait to get the LOP Championship on the WWF Champion during this era. We're closing in fast on the end of Hogan's first run, as well as the dawn of Randy Savage's stint with the strap. I will be an extremely sad human if we somehow make it through this entire thing without some acknowledgment of the WWF's outright dominance during this era. I mean, even in the time frame we're dealing with now, Hulk Hogan is a household name and the biggest mainstream star the pro wrestling business has arguably ever seen, with only maybe Gorgeous George from the halcyon glory days of the early television era even coming close to holding a candle.

    Well, this is certainly the toughest decision so far. I was able to see all these matches (at least, I think I got the right Bockwinkel/Lawler match), and there’s not a bad one in the bunch. To be completely honest, I think Bock/Lawler may be the best in terms of actual match quality, but I think the AWA has fallen too far to really be in consideration anymore.

    Having said all that stuff about the WWF and my Hulkamania and such, I have established a method through which I choose the lineage to proceed down in these situation. That method, of course, is to choose the match which presents the greatest and most worthy opponent. Adrian Adonis was a pretty significant star in his day, but his day was not, well, this day. Lawler was, at the time, a fucking god in the Memphis area, but largely unknown outside of his territory apart from those who remembered his tiff with Andy Kaufman. That was a pretty big deal, but honestly, most folks couldn't pick Jerry Lawler out of a lineup in that day and age. The obvious choice is Flair vs Rhodes in the cage. I mean, it's Ric fucking Flair and Dusty fucking Rhodes. In a cage. In Greensboro. Does an NWA Championship match of this era get any bigger than that? My sense of duty and logic wins out over the unabashed fandom of my youth, as well as the fear that we may find ourselves completely skipping over arguably the greatest WWF Championship feud in history. I've gotta vote for the NWA here.

    So, it comes down to the WWF against the NWA, and that’s where things get tough. Hogan is undoubtedly the biggest thing in the world in ’86, and is at this point not yet so formulaic as to be tiresome, as he will be in later years. Adonis is not the strongest possible opponent for him, but he’s no pushover either. If we want to follow the biggest thing in wrestling, it should be Hogan. But, as fate would have it, in the NWA we are looking at one of the most iconic feuds of the 80s, and one of the principle title defenses in that feud no less. Dusty/Flair is just so, so good, and as a match it smokes the Hogan/Adonis bout to boot. This isn’t an easy choice, but I think I have to go with the bigger defense and the better match. It’s inevitable we’ll return to the WWF at some point but right now I think the NWA has justified a return to their lineage by presenting such an incredibly strong option with Dusty/Flair. The NWA gets my vote this time around.

    Gotta go the NWA route here for me. I mean you will have a nice load of title changes and controversy coming up I'd have to assume. While we are in the 80s we need to stay well away from Hogan. And I just can't get behind anyone with Winkle in their name.

    I don’t think we’ve ever had the title defended in a cage before, but this feels like the time to set that precedent. It’s hard to disagree with what I’m hearing from around the table at this point.

    Give me the mighty bulge vs the toe sucking creep. Not sure if it’ll even make a difference at this stage but fuck it when have i ever made any sense? Don’t answer that.

    Rhodes vs Flair 4-1 Bockwinkel vs Lawler

    Another clear result here which means we have to go, as expected, with the most famous of the three matches, Flair and Dusty in the cage from Greensboro. A quick technical point with regard to the chronology: though Flair enters that match as the NWA Champion, he does not enter as LoP champion nor with any champion’s advantage, and so the belt is only awarded at the conclusion of the match, which means that the title is vacant from Hansen being stripped until Rhodes picks up the fall.

    As a result of that we can move without much controversy for a while. The NWA title is actually far more predictable in the late 1980s than it was in the early and middle part of that decade, and there is no reason to bring in the committee at any point until the rest of the decade. The title passes, straightforwardly, from Rhodes, to Flair, to Garvin, Steamboat, and inevitably often back to Flair until we pitch up in the 1990s.

    I knew this would happen, dammit. I knew it. We have successfully somehow managed to have a World Championship that doesn't include the HANDS DOWN most popular and successful promotion or wrestler of the entire 1980s. I know I voted for Flair, too, and that with the decision as blatant as it was that there was really no alternative... but man. I guess I'm probably the only one who gives a shit or whatever, but that really sucks and in some ways kinda kicks the shit out of the credibility of the title.

    Really? I see the title as the ultimate bestowal of credibility and would argue it kicks the credibility out of Mr Hogan’s claims that he was ever the world champion in the period. We might have to come on to that in a moment, actually, as through 1990 and 1991 Flair trades the belt back and forth with Sting and Tatsumi Fujinami before winning it back to become the 70th LoP World Champion. And then he leaves WCW, before winding up in the WWF claiming to be the ‘real world champion’. So far as I can tell, he didn’t miss any shows. And maybe, given we are recognizing him as the champion until he leaves WCW, we should validate his claim and continue to see him as champion in the WWF. It’s certainly a grey area – what does everyone make of it? Does Flair lose the belt when he leaves WCW?

    As much of a pansy flair is, he was brilliant his in his first WWF stint. I don’t think there’s any harm in keeping him champ, especially considering the alternatives. I think anyway.

    Come on now, slam dunk this one. Ric Flair is still the real world champion. Bobby Heenan told me so. And The Brain wouldn't lie. While I like the idea of stripping him and having WWF's title situation at that time be followed through, I can't trust my shady colleagues to vote the same way so Flair retains the big gold belt.

    I think that Flair should continue to be recognized as World Champion. That said, it's not like he's going to be defending that strap anytime soon. So I guess I'm saying that I think we should go ahead and follow the Nature Boy to the WWF... only to strip him of the title soon.

    Well, this one turned out to be quite a pickle, didn’t it? Flair bailing with the title in hand will do that to you, I guess. I’m not a fan of the politics that saw Flair leave WCW without dropping the title and I think he gets too much of a pass for it, but generally I do think whoever has the belt should be the champion if nobody beats them.

    Without any clear evidence of his failing to make a date, and with obvious clear intention to continue as a mainline singles wrestler (thus negating the precedent set with Jackie Fargo in the 1960s) I can’t see a good reason to challenge Flair’s claims here.

    The board votes unanimously to continue to recognize Ric Flair as LoP’s world heavyweight champion.

    We found ourselves in an interesting position as a result of this. Allowing Flair to take the belt to the WWF required some special dispensation in terms of the timing of defences. This was initially challenged, though that challenge was ultimately withdrawn before the vote could be completed. I guess it wouldn’t be pro-wrestling without a little behind-the-scenes intrigue. It’s worth noting that at this point we did come within a vote of recognizing the only valid alternative in the timeframe, which is to take the title back to WCW with the winner of a match between Lex Luger and Barry Windham.

    However, with the challenge withdrawn Flair’s status as the champion was undisputed, and his arrival in WWF changes our job slightly. As you know, where the title isn’t married to a company title and defended in concert with that belt, we need to pick the defences. So if you’ll consult the packet in front of you, you’ll find Mr Flair’s contracted dates for the first time frame which takes us from his WWF debut until the end of October 1991. We need three votes from five for a match to be considered a LoP world heavyweight title defence.

    They are all for the strap.

    Way to engage, Maz. Anyone else?

    I would say anything but the Jim Powers match would easily qualify for the first new title defense. Hogan and Piper are obviously valid challengers, and I’d gladly accept a Von Erich or Tito in a pinch as well.

    Of the matches listed, any number of them could be considered worth title matches. I think I'd discount Jim Powers off the bat (sorry Jim) but certainly Roddy Piper is a worthy challenger. So my vote goes to the September 30 match against Piper, as we might as well recognize the earliest one of the bunch.

    I can see Joe’s eyes glazing over in the corner on this one, and we’ve got enough votes to declare at least one defence in the period valid already. But I’m going to throw in a couple of my own to give them the third vote necessary to be recognized as a title match. We’ll have our first title defence in Spain by recognizing Flair’s match with Kerry Von Erich, and then I’m also voting to call his bout with Hogan in LA, and Piper at Madison Square Garden, as title defences; All of which means that Flair defends his title four times within the mandatory period, and three times in October 1991. He’s still the champion, though, and with no firm link to the WWF title we need to do the same thing for the next 50 days, starting in November.

    First things first, they're all title matches. I love the idea of a fighting champ so we should do it that way.

    Ah, I get more what you were going for now. Fair enough.

    I took the liberty of looking up a match we had to choose from, which is Flair vs Roddy Piper in St. Girardeau, MO. That match went down on December 8th and Flair won by pinfall. That's a pretty impressive feat in and of itself, as Piper was notoriously stingy with allowing himself to be defeated via pinfall in general. Even more impressive? Flair had actually wrestled Hulk Hogan earlier that same day in St. Louis. How many guys do you think can say they wrestled Hulk Hogan and Roddy Piper in the same day? I'd wager it's very, very few.

    As much as I loathe Flair, I have to admit his greatness pre early 90s was about as good as a wrestler could get. And Hogan was really good when he was still mobile, but being monster face that he was, most matches were predisposed of the same old shit. Give me piper flair because while. Piper was a big crossover star, his head wasn’t so far up his ass as to remain on a predictable trajectory. I’ve heard of stories where flair and piper would switch face heel roles depending on the city. So give me all of them.

    Anywho, I say we roll with that December 8th bout against Piper, as the title defense. I mean, Hot Rod is obviously a worthy contender.

    Naturally, anything with Hogan or Piper would easily qualify. You could probably tack on a few more interesting defenses in there, but it seems like a moot point. Flair is flush with valid defenses all through this period, so let's go ahead and give him the credit he deserves!

    Ok, so at this point we’re recognizing every single Flair and Piper match in this run as a title defence. Given the amount of matches involved in that I’m not going to add anymore as I think that’s plenty. There’s one final period to take a look at that will take us into 1992. Gentlemen, can we find one more match between the end of December and mid-January and drag Flair as champion into the Royal Rumble? I can already see Maz gesturing that his ‘all stand’ is going to be the vote again.

    Yeah, every single one.

    As far as this list of matches, I’ll go with Bret vs flair since I remember it pretty cool, and it breaks up the monotony a bit. Though no huge fan of Bret I am.

    Happy to give Bret a first title match myself at this point and that’ll sew up another 50 days in which Flair keeps the belt. Just to finish off today – Flair heads into the Royal Rumble as World Champion, and leaves as champion. There’s no real impact on our timeline here. But the WWF title was on the line, so I have to ask the question – was the LoP title on the line? Do we defend our own belt in a Royal Rumble or Battle Royal, if there is a title at stake? Or to put it another way, if Flair hadn’t have been successful here, would we have stopped recognizing him? I think this is a point we need to address going forward.

    I once paid for tickets to see a donkey fuck a Colombian woman while Mr T cooked a ribeye steak in the background, so no. I have no problems at all with gimmicky shit. In my opinion that actually makes it all the more interesting. Let him defend it against Kamala in a mud wrestling match or Dusty Rhodes in a bra and panties match.

    As much I love the 92 rumble and everything surrounding it, you can't have it defended there under regular circumstances as far as I am concerned. It would mean we'd have to do it every year if our champ was in the match and that would be an iffy road to go down. Almost as iffy as going down Unc's road.

    I think I agree with you. I don’t mind if our title is vacant considering it, but I don’t think we should ever have someone defend it against that many people simultaneously. I think it’s asking for trouble.

    I would say yes but only if the stipulation attached to the match clearly states that the title is on the line. If the Champion is in a random battle royal of Royal Rumble and winds up not winning, like Randy Savage in the 1989 Royal Rumble, it doesn't matter in terms of the Championship. However, in the rare situation where the title is on the line in such a format, like Roman Reigns in the 2016 Rumble, the title should be eligible to change hands. As per usual with stipulations and gimmick matches in general, I vote in favor of honoring whatever the stipulation put forth is within said match.

    Flair defending his title in a Royal Rumble and winning would have been awesome, rules be damned. Damned I say.

    I think the question is best addressed if it's case-by-case. For just an average battle royal, I would tend to say no. However, for a stacked Royal Rumble? I would be inclined to vote yet. Overall I say let's wait and see if it actually comes up, I imagine it won't be very common if at all but it might just depend on the circumstances. If it does come up for the '92 Rumble, I emphatically vote yes, it's a match deserving of having the title on the line.

    I think we need a more definitive answer here, as we’re talking about how to approach it as a default. There’s always room to challenge it if we think there is an exception but we need an idea of what our first response is.

    I'll concede to trust the judgment of the company and go by their actual ruling.

    Vote is 3-2 in favour of recognizing Battle Royal's as valid defences of the LoP title

    The practical upshot of that vote is that if we are following a title and the promotion puts it on the line in a battle royal situation, we will assume that the match is a title defence. It doesn’t take away the right of the board members to challenge individual cases if they think there’s a good reason but we’ll be proceeding on the grounds that they are in, rather than out, unless challenged.

    With that in mind we’ve probably got enough done for one meeting, gents. I’m just to conclude things by recapping all of Mr Flair’s defences of the LoP title on his arrival in the WWF….

    Ric Flair’s title defences, Sep 1991-Jan 1992

    Vs ‘Rowdy’ Roddy Piper, Wheeling, WV, 30/9/91 - WIN
    Vs Kerry Von Erich, Barcelona, Spain, 5/10/91 - WIN
    Vs Hulk Hogan, Los Angeles, CA, 26/10/91 - LOSS (DQ)
    Vs ‘Rowdy’ Roddy Piper, Madison Square Garden, 28/10/91 - WIN
    vs ‘Rowdy’ Roddy Piper, Youngstown, OH, 08/11/91 - WIN
    vs ‘Rowdy’ Roddy Piper, Boston, MA, 10/11/91 - WIN
    vs ‘Rowdy’ Roddy Piper, Utica, NY 11/11/91 - LOSS (DQ)
    vs ‘Rowdy’ Roddy Piper, Winnipeg, Manitoba, 28/11/91 - WIN (DQ)
    vs ‘Rowdy’ Roddy Piper, Lexington, KY, 29/11/91 - WIN
    vs ‘Rowdy’ Roddy Piper, Fort Worth, TX, 01/12/91 - WIN
    vs ‘Rowdy’ Roddy Piper, WWF This Tuesday In Texas - San Antonio, TX, 03/12/91 - WIN
    vs ‘Rowdy’ Roddy Piper, Pensacola, FL, 05/12/91 - WIN
    vs ‘Rowdy’ Roddy Piper, Houston, TX, 06/12/91 - WIN
    vs ‘Rowdy’ Roddy Piper, Omaha, NE, 07/12/91 - WIN
    vs ‘Rowdy’ Roddy Piper, Cape Girardeau, MO, 08/12/91 - WIN
    vs Bret ‘Hitman’ Hart, Sarasota, FL, 09/01/92 - LOSS (DQ)

    Ric Flair, first five and six time LoP Champion, and 70th LoP Champion

    And here’s a quick recap of the ground we covered in this one…

    Rick Martel – May 13, 1984 – December 29, 1985
    60th Stan Hansen – December 29, 1985 – June 27, 1986
    Vacant –June 27, 1986 – July 26, 1986
    Dusty Rhodes (2) – July 26, 1986 – August 9th, 1986
    Ric Flair (2) – August 9th, 1986 - September 25, 1987
    Ron Garvin - September 25, 1987 - November 26, 1987
    Ric Flair (3) - November 26, 1987 - February 20, 1989
    Rick Steamboat - February 20, 1989 - May 7, 1989
    Ric Flair (4) – May 7, 1989 - July 7, 1990
    Sting - July 7, 1990 - January 11, 1991
    Ric Flair (5) - January 11, 1991 - March 21, 1991
    Tatsumi Fujinami - March 21, 1991 - May 19, 1991
    70th Ric Flair (6) - May 19, 1991 - April 5, 1992

    After the Royal Rumble, the title is relinked back to the WWF Championship. Flair’s reign as the 70th LoP World Champion would therefore last, uninterrupted, for ten months and seventeen days before he was defeated by the ‘Macho Man’ Randy Savage, who becomes LoP Champion for the first time at Wrestlemania VIII. And it’s at that point we’ll resume things in our next meeting.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  2. #2
    The Brain
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    May 2018
    I definitely see Steve's point in that by bypassing WWF during one of the most popular periods, we've arguably gone off the rails a little here. However, with the methodology we've decided on, I still feel like we made the right choice down the line. It's a different question altogether if you want to start switching the "real world's title" moniker mid-reign, by popularity, but we're going for something lineal here so I'm satisfied with what we've got. That said, we did manage to switch to WWF shortly before they run off a cliff popularity-wise, so perhaps I'll regret my words yet!

    Very fun stuff though, Pete, thanks as always for putting these great pieces together!

  3. #3
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    We may not have our fingers on the pulse of popularity, but we have our integrity!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  4. #4
    Word Enthusiast Steven's Avatar
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    Jan 2002
    Deep In The Heart
    I agree with what mizfan had to say, there. This Championship is definitely linear and said lineage is definitely justified. It just feels weird that we skipped over perhaps the most influential and notable World Championship reign of the last 40 years. Does that invalidate what we've done to this point? Not at all. It does, however, invite skepticism. That was pretty much unavoidable, though. There are those out there who will argue that Flair, Dusty and those who held NWA gold were the "real" Champion over any and everyone that the WWF trotted out there, regardless of popularity.

    I guess it just would've been nice if we'd had a scenario in which Hogan's monumental first run could've been included. We didn't, though, and we followed the rules and regulations put forth by the committee from the start, so the lineage is legit. Just disputable, which any lineage we'd have wound up following would be, regardless.

  5. #5
    Member #25 SirSam's Avatar
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    May 2018
    I really love these columns, they are an instant click for me.

    It would be interesting to go back and see where you could have switched it earlier to the WWF lineage that would have perhaps sent you down the Hogan line. Not having matches like Hogan v Andre or Hogan v Savage feels kind of strange considering just how important they have become to the history of pro wrestling. However what we are seeing here though is potentially an example of just how much WWE revisionist history has effected what is commonly thought about pro wrestling in that era: as much as they would like us to think he was, Hogan may not have been the be all end all of pro wrestling in the 80s.


  6. #6
    The Brain
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    May 2018
    It would be really interesting, when this is done, to do an alternate version where we try to track which title was the most important/highest quality through the years. That'd be a more difficult thing to do but it could produce an interesting lineage that isn't dependent on whether or not Hogan was having a low key week at the same time Flair and the NWA decide to fuck the title around randomly. Or maybe it would be disappointingly straightforward, not sure.

  7. #7
    LOP's part time glass ceiling DynamiteBillington's Avatar
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    May 2018
    I'll be impressed if you manage to skip Austin as well as Hogan!

    Curious to see whether TNA ends up getting a run with the LOP title in a few columns time...

  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    In Plan's Brain
    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time View Post
    We may not have our fingers on the pulse of popularity, but we have our integrity!
    Not me!

  9. #9
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    May 2018
    OK, so I do see the point that has been made about the title. I'm basically in character in the column because I'm doing it from a very kayfabe perspective, and to be honest if the title is what I say it is in the column I don't see why he'd accept that Hogan not holding it would hurt it: rather, it'd hurt Hogan. But y'know, even if it looks a bit weird, I do think it's very hard to argue against having it on a guy like Ric Flair over Hogan. There's all kinds of ways of looking at wrestling that can justify that, and very few that aren't business related that cut the other way.

    Steve: You're definitely right, anything we would have done could have been debated: just as someone said it was a shame that we cut the Funks and Briscos out by taking the WWWF in the 1970s, we get the other side of the coin here -and if it'd been reversed, I'm sure someone would have made the case for Bruno and, as you say, for Flair and Dusty. One of those things.

    Sam: Y'know, if we had a rule that there was no champion's advantage in the event of a draw, we could have had the belt off Martel in the summer of 1985 and if Hogan's match had won the following vote, we'd have probably followed Hulk until the title chicanery of 1988. That's about the best we could do, though, and I'm not sure I like the idea of ditching the champion's advantage.

    Mizfan: You're right, that would be an interesting series. I can imagine you'd need a rotating panel, though, to cycle in the historians for the early stages and then bringing in a more varied and modern panel to cover the latter years, because I think doing it that way could require more specialist knowledge of different periods, territories, and even regions. But it'd be a fascinating thing to undertake.

    Billington: I'd be stunned if we managed that, to be honest. I don't see us missing the WWF from 1998-2001 inclusive. I wouldn't rule out TNA nicking in at some point, but I wouldn't expect it to dominate or get an even split of the belt with the 'E, or any of the other promotions we'd be looking at.

    Maz: that's one of the most endearing things about you!

    Thanks for reading everyone.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

  10. #10
    Fuck' incredible Prime and team. The analytical aspect of this lends credibility to the handsome title in the header. This really was the story of Flair escaping the board over and over and over. The fact that you went with Flair/Dusty in hindsight to me just adds credibility to the title. I'm fond with WWF 80's but from a technical standpoint the level of world title competition doesn't hold up. It's interesting that Flair is currently a 6 time LOP champion. If you think about it 2 of the many paths were: Flair's record of title wins and Hogan's long title reign. Most of Flair's wins could have been missed by Hogan lengthy reign.

    Good times.

  11. #11
    Administrator Prime Time's Avatar
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    May 2018
    BenButton, it's an interesting thought y'know. It's a given, I think, that Flair is already going to struggle to hit 16 time world champion - he's already lost a couple of reigns by this point. But if we'd gone on to the WWF for Hogan, I'm not sure he'd have lost that many - he kept the belt quite a lot between 86-89, especially that year long reign spanning all of 1988. So if we'd stuck with Hogan until the thing with Andre/DiBiase, Flair would still have racked up enough reigns to make him the record holder.... BUT what if we hadn't jumped back to the NWA in 1988? It's unlikely I think looking at the options, but for argument's sake... we'd have then got Savage, a second Hogan reign, Warrior and all that stuff, but then Flair would have been pulled down to just the one title reign between the early 80s and 1992. Bizarre thought, isn't it?

    I'm starting to play a little game in my head, wondering what number Flair will finally finish on, and how close the guys like Cena and Hunter will get to him when the time comes.....

    Anyway, thanks for reading and glad you enjoyed it.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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